Deebo & Joe - Part 1: Steelers QB Plans: Anthony Richardson to Pittsburgh? + Gainwell to test Free Agency

Summary

Club Shay Shay – Deebo & Joe - Part 1

Episode Theme:
This episode, hosted by NFL veterans James "Deebo" Harrison and Joe Haden, delivers a candid, unfiltered look at the Pittsburgh Steelers' quarterback conundrum, upcoming free agency decisions (most notably Kenny Gainwell testing the market), and larger NFL business issues from a player's perspective—including a critique of the current NFLPA leadership and the salary cap's underlying mechanics. Expect real locker-room talk, inside stories, and strong opinions about how the game and business of football is really played.

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Steelers Quarterback Situation

[04:13–16:38]

Kenny Pickett’s Rocky Ride

• ESPN ranked quarterbacks picked in the first round since 2001. Kenny Pickett was rated last: “Kenny Pickett finished 18 of 18. The worst possible spot they could get.” (Deebo, 04:38)
• Recap of Pickett’s career: started in Pittsburgh, traded to Eagles (got a Super Bowl ring as backup), then Browns, then Raiders. “I must have missed that Browns...” (Deebo, 05:53)
• Both hosts agree: Pittsburgh hasn’t found its “franchise QB.”

Which QB Next—Draft, Free Agency, or In-House?

• Will Howard, currently on the roster, gets some love:
  • Joe: “I want to give him a shot...I’m not a believer in any of these [draft] quarterbacks right now.” (06:08)
  • Deebo: “I definitely don’t see us getting our franchise quarterback in this draft.” (07:43)
• Speculation: Would the Steelers bring back Aaron Rodgers? Reports suggest a decision is imminent (08:00–08:38).
• Anthony Richardson mentioned as a possible low-cost “bridge”: talent and upside (“He a big dude, he mobile, he got a strong arm...only 23, 24 in May,” Deebo, 09:38) but work ethic and commitment questioned.

Quarterback Money Talk

• Malik Willis rumored to want $30–40M over two years. Joe: “If we can go give Malik Willis $40 million, we can make our team a lot better with that money.” (15:00)
• Both prefer investing in other positions and letting Will Howard sink or swim:
  • “Don’t bring Rogers back. Give it all to Will Howard. Crash or burn. Let’s ride it out.” (Deebo, 16:17)
  • “If he doesn’t do it...hopefully next season let’s look and see what the draft looking like.” (Joe, 15:10)

Memorable Moment:

• “Sink or swim, man.” – Joe (22:15)
• “We gonna sink or swim.” – Deebo (22:16)

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Kenny Gainwell Tests Free Agency

[23:43–26:56]

• Gainwell, after a “prove-it” year ($1.7M), intends to cash in: “He did what the prove-it year is supposed to do...now he needs to go get his bag.” (Joe, 24:42)
• Steelers would love to keep him, but price is an issue. With Jaylen Warren already making $5M, having two mid-level paid backs is “where the running back market is...the math just looks crazy.” (Joe, 25:28)
• Both hosts say Gainwell deserves to get paid, and the Steelers shouldn’t block his opportunity.

Quote:
“Two things could be right at the same time.” – Deebo (26:56)
“Ain’t nobody gotta be wrong.” – both hosts (27:01)

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Wide Receiver & Trade Rumors

[27:02–31:06]

• Brian Thomas Jr. (Jaguars) named as a possible Steelers trade target, but both hosts express doubts:
  • Deebo: “I just don’t like his decline in his performance...he would be coming to Pittsburgh and playing in not ideal weather...I can’t take that chance.” (29:30)
  • Joe: “We need hand catching receivers...I don’t know if he’s a natural catcher of the ball...drop balls are the reason why you aren’t in the league.” (30:19)
• Both agree, “We don’t need him. We need hand catching receivers.”

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Inside Look: Browns’ Stefanski Knew He Was Fired

[32:07–41:52]

• Browns coach Kev Stefanski knew before the last game he was getting fired.
• Deebo and Joe dissect the awkwardness and hypocrisy: “Everything’s fake juice...he’s out the door for real...but you’re literally one foot in and one foot out.” (Joe, 34:41)
• “Don’t tell him nothing...coach me up like you’re trying to keep your job.” (Joe, 36:33)
• Fun aside: Deebo jokingly says if a player was told he’d be released before a game, he’d call in sick. “I am not playing in that game...I’ma have a mystery illness pop up right there on game day.” (Deebo, 38:17)
• Both hosts agree: in the NFL, players aren’t given a heads-up, and being a coach is no exception—no special treatment.

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Candid Salary Cap and NFLPA Reality Check

[42:07–55:55]

Salary Cap Boom—And the Hidden Truth

• NFL salary cap hits $301.2M for the first time; huge 5-year growth (“40% increase,” Deebo, 42:07)
• Joe is initially enthusiastic: “The owner's making money, so then the players are able to make money...quarterbacks can make $60 million a year, receivers $35 million.” (42:31)
• Deebo challenges the celebration: “Know why you happy? Because you’re uninformed.” (46:11)
  • Exposes how the NFL takes $2–3B “off the top” before calculating the reported 48/52 revenue split with players, due to a poorly negotiated CBA.
  • Criticizes the NFLPA: “Nobody that is currently in the nflpa, working for the NFLPA, should have a shot at being elected...That’s another reason why I am running for executive director and I should be voted to win.” (49:01)
• Warns about looming issues: the NFL wants 18 games by 2028, with the Super Bowl earmarked for Atlanta but no locked-in date, to ensure flexibility.
• Larger point: salary cap has risen but players aren’t getting a true 48% split—structurally, more money should be going to players. The PA’s lack of transparency and collusion with owners is called out repeatedly.
• Passionate advocacy: Deebo calls for himself to be made NFLPA Executive Director, demanding better for players.

Memorable Exchange:

• “We need to get you in there to go find that thing.3 billion and get that bus down into the 52/48.” – Joe (53:00)
• “Two things could be right at the same time. Happy that it’s going up, but blown...cause they’re scraping off the top.” – Joe (53:31)

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Tone and Notable Quotes

• Locker-room candor, humor, and authenticity:
  • “If I'm sitting over here and I got a six sitting in front of me and you over across that table from you, it look like a nine. Neither one of us is looking at it in a different perspective.” – Deebo (27:02)
  • “Telling your truth, telling my truth hurt somebody’s feelings in my perspective. Let the pain flow.” – Deebo (31:30)
• Self-aware, irreverent, and passionate about player empowerment.

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Other Small Segments

• Dish on NFL facilities: Steelers’ facility “way better” than the Cardinals; both criticize Bengals’ pre-upgrade (23:19–23:35)
• Slightly off-topic, yet true-to-life tangents about finances, family, and off-field NFL politics.

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Summary Table of Key Segments

| Time | Topic | |--------------|--------------------------------------------| | 04:13–16:38 | Steelers QB discussion, trades, and options| | 23:43–26:56 | Kenny Gainwell tests free agency | | 27:02–31:06 | WR trade rumors: skepticism on Thomas Jr. | | 32:07–41:52 | Stefanski firing, NFL honesty/culture | | 42:07–55:55 | Salary cap, NFLPA, and CBA transparency |

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Takeaways

• Steelers’ QB answer won’t come easy—hosts skeptical about the current draft, urge patience, and want to see what Will Howard can do before splurging in free agency or making another risky selection.
• Financial realities matter—whether in retaining breakout players like Gainwell or navigating mid-tier contracts, salary allocations are under the microscope.
• Players must become more informed and empowered—the salary cap leap isn’t all it appears to be, and the player share of revenue is less than advertised.
• NFLPA gets no pass—Deebo’s running for Director, demanding a fairer shake for players and calling out corruption or complacency.
• You get sharp insight, honest laughs, and the kind of real talk you only get from insiders who’ve lived it.

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Episode Style:
Candid, familial, and deeply invested in the culture and future of the NFL and its players.

Transcript

[Deebo Harrison]

This is an I heart podcast, Guaranteed human.

[Nancy Glass]

I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt Season two podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumpride became the victim of a random crime. The perpetrator was sentenced to 99 years until a confession changed everything.

[Narrator/Podcast Voice]

I was a monster.

[Nancy Glass]

Listen to Burden of guilt season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ben Higgins]

You can scroll the headlines all day and still feel empty. I'm Ben Higgins and if youf Can Hear Me is where culture meets the soul. Honest conversations about identity, loss, purpose, peace, faith, and everything in between. Celebrities, thinkers, everyday people. Some have answers. Most are still figuring it out. And if you've ever felt like there has to be more to the story, this show is for you. Listen to if youf Can Hear me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Deebo Harrison]

This is Special Agent Riegel, Special Agent Bradley Hall.

[Narrator/Podcast Voice]

In 2018, the FBI took down a ring of spies working for China's Ministry of State Security, one of the most mysterious intelligence agencies in the world.

The Sixth Bureau podcast is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets.

Listen to the 6th Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jay Shetty]

Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, host of the On Purpose podcast. I'm joined by Luke Combs, award winning country music artist and one of the most authentic voices in music today.

[Luke Combs]

The guy that says he's always gonna be there and that will do anything to be there is the only guy that's matter what I'm going to prioritize my wife and my children. I dread the conversation with my son.

[Jay Shetty]

Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Deebo Harrison]

Then she says, have you seen a photo of my son? And I'm like, who is this person?

[Boys and Girls Podcast Host]

Welcome to the Boys and Girls podcast. Arranged marriage is basically a reality show and you're auditioning for your soulmate and who's judging? Only your entire family. I sacrificed myself to this ancient tradition hoping to find love the right way. And instead I found chaos, comedy and a lot of cringe. Listen to Boys and Girls on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Deebo Harrison]

Welcome back to this episode of D Boy Joe. I'm your host, James Debo Harrison, and I'm here with my co host, Joe Hayden. Please make sure you like subscribe and download where you get your podcast. How you doing today, Joe?

[Joe Hayden]

I'm doing great, brother. Deebo, I'm not going to lie to you. I had a question, though. First and foremost, I had a question. What color is your shirt today? Is that. Is that pink or is that purple?

[Deebo Harrison]

Let's call it. Let's call it salmon.

[Joe Hayden]

Let's call it salmon.

[Deebo Harrison]

Let's call it salmon.

[Joe Hayden]

Salmon, like salmon, like the food salmon?

[Deebo Harrison]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Joe Hayden]

Okay. It's salmon. Okay, okay. I'm looking. It looked purple. It looked purple. I thought it was purple.

[Deebo Harrison]

Nah, nah, nah. More pink than it is purple. We're gonna call it salmon. You know, I'm saying. I'm just saying, man. Okay, man, you see it just flowing all against it complexion. You feel me?

[Joe Hayden]

I was not hip when I was looking at the intro, when the music was going. I was looking at your shirt and I'm like, okay, I gotta ask him, like. Cause it look. It looks purple. It looks a nice shirt. It looks good on you, Deebo. I'm not. It looks good, but I just had to ask, was it finger purple? And you come with the sound, man.

[Deebo Harrison]

Yes, that sound. Not sound, man. No. Yo, that's.

[Joe Hayden]

Hey, you made my morning. You have made my morning already.

[Deebo Harrison]

I mean, you know, I do what I could do, and I could do it when I do. You know what I'm saying? I. I can. I can. I do what I do, man. Let's jump into some of this still action that's going on, please. So the stillness, I guess they ESPN came out with a ranking of a quarterback selected in the first round since 2001.

[Joe Hayden]

Yes.

[Deebo Harrison]

In the stiller selection, Kenny Pickett finished 18 of 18. The worst possible spot they could get. They said the best quarterback of that was 2002. Purdy. They said 2022. Sorry, 2022 was. Was Purdy who was actually the last selection of that draft. So Pickett finished with 63%, nine interceptions over 13 games his rookie year. And that was before he ended up losing the starting role, getting traded to. I think it was Philly first. Didn't he get a Super Bowl, Kenny?

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah, I got to check.

[Deebo Harrison]

I think he did get a Super bowl as a backup, bro. Like that. And then that was again before he ended up getting traded. I think it was twice last year

[Joe Hayden]

traded to the Eagles 2024, and then twice more in 2025 from the Eagles to the Browns in the spring and Then from the Browns to the Raiders in the preseason.

[Deebo Harrison]

I must have missed that Browns like.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah, I know he was. I remember Kenny Pickett. He was a Brown also.

[Deebo Harrison]

Okay. Okay.

[Joe Hayden]

We put him over there.

[Deebo Harrison]

So. So, Joe, you think we get our. We get our franchise quarterback this draft?

[Joe Hayden]

I. I don't know if we get our friend. I don't think we get our franchise quarterback this draft. I don't know if. I don't know if he's there. And when I was just looking at first I was looking at the list, going over what it said, but you want to go. Let's go with the Steelers. I don't think they're going to get their draft. The. The quarterback in this draft class. I don't think he's there. I think that when we. What I keep saying, I like Will Howard. I like what. I want to give him a shot. I think he's. He's on our roster like we said. And I'm not a believer in any of these quarterbacks right now. Sorry. Maybe somebody else is. But if you're asking my opinion, I don't believe I'd rather us not try to stretch and go get a cons. Go get a starter. Go get somebody. I know there's plenty of ballers. There's plenty of left tackles. There's plenty of wide receivers a ones. There's plenty of linebackers like setting like beast linebackers not only in the combine, but on tape. He does. He can do both. So let's get a position of need for sure that we can do that helps him out. At the end of the day, that helps out a quarterback. If it's not Will Howard, if it's another quarterback that we get, we're going to need those positions to help out the team. No matter what, quarterback is always the one that everybody wants to be like, oh, no, we need a QB instantly. We're not going to win. Okay. We're going to win without. Okay, just don't pick wrong. Gonna go pick Kenny Picket again. No disrespect. And then we just be sitting there looking like, oh, no, no, we picked. We. We just need to go get a quarterback. No, take your time. If McCarthy thinks in free agency, we can go get. If he likes Malik, if he likes J.J. mcCarthy, where he can go trade.

[Deebo Harrison]

I'm with you on that. I definitely don't see us getting our franchise quarterback in this draft. That's just rush it. I don't. I don't think. I don't think it's anyone there. I agree with you 100, you know, 100%. And again, same thing. It's all, you know, depending on like are they going to give Will Howard a chance? You know, on top of that, are they going to give him a chance but. Or say they're going to give him a chance and, and, and end up, you know, bringing Aaron Rodgers back because Omar, you know, he talked at the combine and he's, you know, they made it as if they definitely, you know, would like to have him back or were open to having him back. And with the report from Rapaport basically said Aaron Rodgers decision will come before the free agency starts. And that's what March.

[Joe Hayden]

That's Monday.

[Deebo Harrison]

I think that's actually ninth.

[Joe Hayden]

The, the ninth is the tampering.

[Deebo Harrison]

Yeah, the ninth. They can actually start talking to people.

[Joe Hayden]

Yes.

[Deebo Harrison]

So, you know, plus again, it's Mike McCarthy, you know, he's there and he's already said, you know, he's going to be the play caller for the offense. He's going to call the plays. So I'm pretty sure that that will lean more towards Aaron's fav. He's very, very familiar, you know, with that, with that program. So people saying like they should go, they should go. I ain't gonna lie. I'm on the give Will a chance ride out. But now, you know, the more I sit here and think about it, the more I'm like, you know, let Aaron come back and let's see what it could do. Maybe we could do better with this staff. And right now we're people talking about what's his name over there, Anthony Richardson. Like they're talking about, you know, that should be somebody we could possibly take a chance on. He a big dude, he mobile. He got a strong arm. What is he? He's only 23, 24 and May.

[Joe Hayden]

He's a gator.

[Deebo Harrison]

He's a Gator. He's.

[Joe Hayden]

He's a Gator.

[Deebo Harrison]

You know, what do you think of the possibility of, of him? Do you think they should look at him, have that be a possible option

[Joe Hayden]

or we just need to make sure.

[Deebo Harrison]

Kick the tree, so to speak. Bush.

[Joe Hayden]

I like the fact that we have McCarthy here. Is going to be a new offense. He knows what he needs. If he thinks that Anthony Richardson can fit into the project, his offensive scheme, then do it. Like I just want McCarthy to be able to do what he wants to do because I think with that too, it's a money thing. I don't think that Richardson is going to be that. We got to stand a lot of money for him. So at the same time, I think if it's Malik that's going to be more of a. You know what I'm saying, it's going to cost more. So it's just, it's a money thing, it's a McCarthy thing, it's an offense, It's a. You're calling the plays, coach. Who do you like? You know what I'm saying? I'm not the one that's going to be calling the signals.

[Deebo Harrison]

Who do you.

[Joe Hayden]

Who fits into your offense best? Who do you think is going to make this team function the best?

[Deebo Harrison]

So I understand that too. But you gotta look at longevity.

[Joe Hayden]

No, no, no. For sure, for sure. That's why I'm rocking with Will Howard. But then at the same time, if he doesn't succeed, if we do have AR there to see what he can do for the low also, and it's just a one year jump like now, he's not staying there. We're not saying he's a long term deal also. So I'm just saying short term for these quarterbacks. We need somebody else in the room. We're saying if it's not Mason Rudolph, he's not the guy AR for the low with. Will Howard isn't a bad deal. You know what I'm saying?

[Deebo Harrison]

Yeah, I think he ended up, what was it last year? He did the orbital fracture.

[Joe Hayden]

Anthony Richardson ar. Not Ar Rogers.

[Deebo Harrison]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, he did, he did. Anthony Richardson, he did the fracture of

[Joe Hayden]

his eye with, with the, with the band.

[Deebo Harrison]

With. Yeah, with the band. Here's. Here's my issue and what I'm. What I'm hearing a little bit of is there. I guess this is a question if he like really like wants to play, like if he's ready to put in the work. And when you look at him, same thing with him, dude. He has, what was it, eight touchdowns, 12 interceptions. That's a high ratio. Yeah, he rushed for, you know, 500 yards or so.

[Joe Hayden]

It's a lot of lead.

[Deebo Harrison]

You could clean up that interception part. You got a great dual threat there. And when you come down to it, I had an orbital blowout myself, bro. Two, three weeks at most. They did not need to put that man on ir. So that's telling. So all the stuff that you hear or heard before about his wanting or willingness to do whatever needs to be done to actually, you know, play and all that, now that, that comes in, you know, into question and then they go and get, you know, old Man Rivers four years off the couch before they Even look at saying, okay, he gonna be out for two or three weeks and keeping him up, possibly having to even bring back. And now they're looking at either releasing him or trading them first. They're not going to say that if the rumors are true that he or they believe it's an issue with him really wanting to play, you know.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah.

[Deebo Harrison]

They not gonna be the ones to tell it if it is true because they trying to get something for him now in a possible trade before they end up just having to, you know, cut ties.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah.

[Deebo Harrison]

And. Yeah.

[Joe Hayden]

And I just. In the beat and to be all with honesty, I, I didn't. I, I like Anthony Richardson, he's a Gator. But if I, I don't. I don't know about his quarter. I wouldn't, I wouldn't, Wouldn't want him to be the starting quarterback. I don't think he's the, the future.

[Deebo Harrison]

And then they're talking, what is it, J.J. mcCarthy over there? Nope.

[Joe Hayden]

Yes.

[Deebo Harrison]

Nope. No.

[Joe Hayden]

Nope. Good.

[Deebo Harrison]

He couldn't, he couldn't do it. With what? Just Justin Jefferson.

[Joe Hayden]

Jefferson. Oh, you can't get it with Jefferson. You got to be. Yeah, we ain't got, we ain't got all that over here.

[Deebo Harrison]

We ain't got all that over there, baby. Not even close.

[Joe Hayden]

So Will Howard and figure it out.

[Deebo Harrison]

Will Hogart and figured it out. Now hold on. You got, you got, like I said, you got the, you got the packers or ex packers, whatever you want to call it. Malik Wilson. Now, it was reported that he could get like 30. 30 meal. 30?

[Joe Hayden]

Yes.

[Deebo Harrison]

Dang. What they saying no more now?

[Joe Hayden]

What they saying?

[Deebo Harrison]

What they looking at now is, you know, they going into damage, damage control. Trying to lower the price. Trying to lower the price, so to speak. So now all of a sudden you got the front offices of the NL believing that, you know, it's, it's probably gonna be more like two year, 40 million, you know, around 20 a year. Because, you know, it's still a lot of money for a guy that really only started six games. He only got six games under his belt. So you, you said that maybe at two for two. Two, two for four to 20 a year, that would possibly be something that you would be like, all right, let's go ahead, look at it. Give it a chance. What do you, what do you think now, Joe? If that's the number for Malik Willis,

[Joe Hayden]

I want to say if McCarthy believes it, but honestly, I need to go ahead and stand on my own 10 toes. I need to say, well, Will Howard see what he got. Put that money elsewhere. If we got. We can still give up 20, $40 million, we can bring in some ballers for that money and make our squad initially just better. Just way better. Just our line better, our receivers better. You know what I'm saying? We can draft still other positions, but if we can go get 20, if we can go give Malik Willis $40 million, we can make our team a lot better with that money. So that's where I'm like, I don't like, let's not get too quarterback heavy. If he doesn't do it, he doesn' do it, then we might have a high pick then hopefully next season. Let's look and see what the draft looking like, where we can get a good quarterback or these, this $40 million will be coming out of the air for a quarterback that we can find. We can do that next year. But like right now, can we please just use our picks for players? We just. Let's just get everybody. Let's get our offensive line good. Let's get a middle linebacker. Let's get. Let's get another cornerback, you know what I'm saying, to help out Joey Porter Jr. Like, let's not get too strung up on the quarterback position because that's where everybody gets locked in. And we know we're going to need it eventually. We know we're going to need it. But I like Will. When are we ever. We're not going to ever give him a shot. If we keep on saying, oh, no, then Malik Willis is there. Okay. Boom. And that's another 40. We got to play him. And then Will's not.

[Deebo Harrison]

Don't bring Rogers back. Give. Give it all to Will Howard. Crash or burn. Let's ride it out.

[Joe Hayden]

And it's not even crash or burn. I mean we. Cause if.

[Deebo Harrison]

I mean make it.

[Joe Hayden]

You either.

[Deebo Harrison]

You either. You either have.

[Joe Hayden]

You gonna do. You gonna do. You gonna figure it out.

[Deebo Harrison]

You get what you get, period.

[Joe Hayden]

You get what you get. We gonna see.

[Deebo Harrison]

You sticking with.

[Joe Hayden]

I'm sticking with it.

[Deebo Harrison]

What's his name as the backup though?

[Joe Hayden]

Mace. Who you say? Mace.

[Deebo Harrison]

Rudolph. Yeah.

[Joe Hayden]

I'm not mad. We can. I'm not mad at Mace. I'm not mad at Mace. Like you said, you know, you know what you gonna get.

[Deebo Harrison]

I'd rather. I'd rather trade for one of these other cats and see and have a competition before I go and just let him sit there comfortably.

[Joe Hayden]

No, he's not gonna be comfortable. He's had a rod's toolish. He was sitting there comfortable last year backed up watching.

[Deebo Harrison]

And look what he did when he came in through the pic. Immediately.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah, that was not.

[Deebo Harrison]

Oh, they ain't doing no pics. Let me show y' all how to do this.

[Nancy Glass]

I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt Season two podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumprite became the victim of a random crime.

[Deebo Harrison]

He pulls the gun, tells me to

[Ben Higgins]

lie down on the ground.

[Nancy Glass]

He identified Jermaine Hudson as the perpetrator. Jermaine was sentenced to 99 years.

[Joe Hayden]

I'm like, lord, this can't be real. I thought it was a mistaken identity.

[Deebo Harrison]

The best lie is partial truth.

[Nancy Glass]

For 22 years, only two people knew the truth. Until a confession changed everything.

[Narrator/Podcast Voice]

I was a monster.

[Nancy Glass]

Listen to Burden of guilt season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Deebo Harrison]

Foreign.

[Ben Higgins]

What do you do when the headlines don't explain what's happening inside of you? I'm Ben Higgins, and if you can hear me is where culture meets the soul. A place for real conversation. Each episode, I sit down with people from all walks of life. Celebrities, thinkers, and everyday folks. And we go deeper than the polished story. We talk about what drives us, what shapes us, and what gives us hope. We get honest about the big stuff. Identity when you don't recognize yourself anymore. Loss that changes you Purpose when success isn't enough. Peace when your mind won't slow down. Faith when it's complicated. Some guests have answers. Most are still figuring it out. If you've ever felt like there has to be more to the story, this show is for you. Listen to if youf Can Hear me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Narrator/Podcast Voice]

China's Ministry of State Security is one of the most mysterious and powerful spy agencies in the world. But in 2017, the FBI got inside.

[Deebo Harrison]

This is Special Agent Riegel, Special Agent Bradley Hall.

[Narrator/Podcast Voice]

This MSS officer has no idea the US Government is onto him. But the FBI has his chats, texts, emails, even his personal diary. Hear how they got it on the Sixth Bureau podcast.

[Deebo Harrison]

I now have several terabytes of an MSS officer, no doubt, no question of his life. And that's a unicorn. No one had ever seen anything like that. It was unbelievable.

[Narrator/Podcast Voice]

This is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets.

Listen to the 6th Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jay Shetty]

Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, host of the On Purpose podcast. I'm joined by Luke Combs, award winning country music artist and one of the most authentic voices in music today. Luke opens up about success, self doubt, mental health, and what it really takes to stay true to who you are when your life changes overnight.

[Luke Combs]

I hate fame. I hate the word celebrity. I hate those words. They make me uncomfortable. But I think when you get to a certain point, the fame or the success or the influence, it just accentuates and exacerbates the inherent person that you are. The guy that says he's always going to be there and that will do anything to be there is the only guy that's not there. I'm in Australia when Beau is born. My whole identity is that no matter what, I'm gonna prioritize my wife and my children over my job. I dread the conversation with my son.

[Jay Shetty]

What do you think you'd say listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Mind Games Narrator]

What if mind control is real?

[Deebo Harrison]

If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have?

[Mind Games Narrator]

Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car?

[Joe Hayden]

When you look at your car, you're gonna become overwhelmed with someone. Such good feelings.

[Mind Games Narrator]

Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you?

[Deebo Harrison]

I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused.

[Mind Games Narrator]

Can you get someone to join your cult?

[Boys and Girls Podcast Host]

NLP was used on me to access my subconscious.

[Mind Games Narrator]

Nlp, AKA Neuro Linguistic programming, is a blend of hypnosis, linguistics, and psychology. Fans say it's like finally getting a user manual for your brain.

[Joe Hayden]

It's about engineering consciousness.

[Mind Games Narrator]

Mind Games is the story of nlp, its crazy cast of disciples and the fake doctor who invented it at a new age commune and sold it to guys in suits. He stood trial for murder and got acquitted. The biggest mind game of all, nlp might actually work.

[Deebo Harrison]

This is wild.

[Mind Games Narrator]

Listen to mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Joe Hayden]

Sink or swim, man.

[Deebo Harrison]

We gonna sink or swim.

[Joe Hayden]

Come on.

[Deebo Harrison]

They're saying that Willis is potential. His potential spots, though, is. All right, look, answer me this. Yes, you got a chance to land in same money. Miami, New York, Jets, Arizona. Miami, money, the same New York. Where you going?

[Joe Hayden]

Arizona.

[Deebo Harrison]

I don't even know what's taking you so long.

[Joe Hayden]

Miami. Good Lord, Joe, I'm really trying to. Yeah. Taxes and I'm really. Yeah, I was trying to think about who has the good weather. Yes. The good weather.

[Deebo Harrison]

If.

[Joe Hayden]

If it's just for. Yes, yes.

[Deebo Harrison]

Only person that got bad facilities like us was Arizona.

[Joe Hayden]

I like AC though. I love. I love Scottsdale.

[Deebo Harrison]

You wouldn't like their facility, bro.

[Joe Hayden]

So I never been.

[Deebo Harrison]

I went there. I went there when I was. When I was a free agent. Facilities average. Ours is way better than theirs.

[Joe Hayden]

Then the Steelers facilities way better than the Cardinals.

[Deebo Harrison]

The one I walked into. Yes, sir.

[Joe Hayden]

Okay. They had to upgrade by then. They had to. I don't know, the Bengals had to upgrade too, because they joined when I went. Was not good on my visit.

[Deebo Harrison]

I think they did upgrade some.

[Joe Hayden]

They had to.

[Deebo Harrison]

They did. They did. They did upgrade some. But we got some bad news, though.

[Joe Hayden]

What we got?

[Deebo Harrison]

Ken Gainwell said, man, look here, I'm gonna go ahead. I'm gonna. I'm gonna test. I'm gonna test the free agent market. As he should.

[Joe Hayden]

Deservingly so.

[Deebo Harrison]

Okay. Okay. As he should still is. GM Omar Khan said at the combine quote, he knows we want him back, but can the Stillers afford it or is it worth it? And I say, is it worth it because if we're going to use him in the same fashion as they planned and did, well, as they used him last year, then maybe it's some way you can, you can try and foot that ticket, you know what I'm saying? Because he's looking at being only the second team MVP to exit in free agency after winning the MVP. And the other one was Neil O' Donnell in 1996, brother.

[Joe Hayden]

But you know how this works. You know how this works. He came over here, that minimum deal, Prove IT deal, one year, $1.7 million. And he outperformed the deal. He went and did what the prove it year is supposed to do. It goes and show that I'm supposed to go, I'm better than that. I'm supposed to go get the bag. So the Steelers got off when they was able to get him, signed him for that. That was a steal. We stole Gainwell. So now he needs to go get his bag. Obviously he deserves it. So testing for him to go test the mark. Go get. Cause now people see what you got. We stole you for 1.7 on the prove a year. And you did what the prove a year, what that year is for. So we can't try to hold him hostage. Like, man, go out there, go get what you can. For sure, you deserve it. But at the same time, we still have Jaylen Warren that's making $5 million a year. You know what I'm saying? On our roster. And he deserves. He deserves it too. But that's where the running back market is. You can't have two of them making $5 million a year. When you feel like you got a rookie, you got him at a vet for 1.1, why you can't hit again, get another veteran coming off the team, trying to get approved a year, trying to get another deal, they feel like, maybe I can do that again. Omar Khan's like, oh, I found. I found Gainwell. I can find another one type. So, like, I feel like this happened for a reason. He deserves his bag. He came and did what he had to do for the prove it year. So with the Steelers, I'm like, I. I can see where they're coming from. I know they're paying Warren already. We have a rookie running back that was on the roster this year, but got. He's got a second year that he can hopefully come ball out. But it's like the money is kind of acting funny, so I know they will definitely. You want him to come back. I know you do. Of course you do. But you don't want him to come back at the ticket that he wants to comeback because he knows he deserves back pay now. He was out there hooping thousand yards, MVP for the team, making that 1.1. When no knock to Jalen. Jalen did exactly what he was supposed to do. He's making $5 million a year. Top running backs are making 20. These dudes are not asking for crazy money. But when you're saying two, five million dollars a year running backs, when you could get a game, well, for 1.1 and you have a warrant at 5, it's like the math just kind of looks crazy. So you could. Two things could be right. Gain well, you deserve it. You did exactly what you needed to do. Omar would love you here.

[Deebo Harrison]

Two things could be right at the same time. The right joke.

[Joe Hayden]

You know what I'm saying, bro?

[Deebo Harrison]

Both can be right.

[Joe Hayden]

Ain't nobody gotta be wrong.

[Deebo Harrison]

Ain't nobody gotta be wrong. You just gotta look at something from a different perspective, baby. If I'm sitting over here and I got a six sitting in front of me and you over across that table from you, it look like a nine. Neither one of us is looking at it in a different perspective. You feel me? True. Hey, they say we need a number one. That's. That's. That's bad. Number one or number two, receiver. And with that being said, there's speculation from a NFL reporter and another NFL analyst of people that could possibly be traded dealt. And Brian Thomas Jr. Was one of those names from the Jags that some people believe we should, we should trade for. The Jags made what a deadline trade last year for. What was the, what was the guy's name that they ended up. Was it Jacoby Myers? Ended up making a trade. Okay, so they made a trade for him like mid season last year because Thomas was, he was, he was, he was going, he was going downhill there for, for a little bit. And then after they did that they signed into a long term deal. But you know, I don't know if that's because they're looking at possibly being able to move him or it was because they already knew what they plan was with Travis Hunter as making him primarily a corner and just getting him some wide receiver snaps. But with that being said or it being a possibility first, what do you think the likelihood of that happening? Like them trading them and if they do, do you think the Steelers should pursue it? That can give us something. What do you think likelihood of it happening?

[Joe Hayden]

Likelihood of it happening? I don't know how likely. I think it's not. Not too, not too likely. I would like it to happen. I mean, I don't know. I don't know honestly, with this one. Debo, do you. I, I remember he had some drops going on in his career a little earlier, but then he, I mean he didn't.

[Deebo Harrison]

Still young though. Still young.

[Joe Hayden]

Still, still young. Still young. But I don't know. I don't know.

[Deebo Harrison]

I could put you on the ball, put you on the bag.

[Joe Hayden]

You put me in the. You put me in a bad spot. You put me in the bad spot.

[Deebo Harrison]

Listen. No, I'm talking about him. I could put him on the ball. I could put him on the jugs machine all day. I could do. I could do all that. I could get his hands right. I could get his hands right. See, I like to look at it both ways. I was hoping that you would go with him because.

[Joe Hayden]

Do you want to go with him?

[Deebo Harrison]

I don't think it's going to happen. One, I just don't think it's going to happen. Two, I wouldn't pursue it. I just don't like his decline in his performance over this, over that season and he would be coming to Pittsburgh and playing in not ideal weather and you was down there in Jacksonville, perfect conditions.

[Joe Hayden]

Hey, and Trevor Lawrence too. We not sound like he's not a bad quarterback.

[Deebo Harrison]

I can't.

[Joe Hayden]

He's not bad.

[Deebo Harrison]

I Just. I can't. I can't take that chance.

[Joe Hayden]

If so that's what I'm saying too. When you looking at. Let me go, Debo. Now, since you was on the same page. Because I didn't want. It's. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not disrespectful. It's hard to be like, like Joe.

[Deebo Harrison]

You gotta speak your mind without worrying about what the best one gonna say. Joe, you know what?

[Joe Hayden]

You're right.

[Deebo Harrison]

You know what?

[Joe Hayden]

We don't need. We don't need him the same. That's what I'm saying. We need hand catching receivers that are just natural catchers. And I don't know if he's a natural catcher of the ball. He looks like. We don't need people that is coming off of any type of drop ball stuff when you're a wide receiver. Like we got, like, no, no, we do not need that. That's what, that's your job. That's. That's your job description. You're a professional. You're an NFL wide receiver. Like drop balls are the reason why you aren't in the league.

[Deebo Harrison]

Oh, Joe, you talking about you trying to throw the man out the lead now.

[Joe Hayden]

No, no, I'm not trying to talk about the lead, but I'm saying. But if it's catchable.

[Deebo Harrison]

Joe, I'm with you. Joe, calm down. Oh, scary ass boy. What's wrong with you?

[Joe Hayden]

See, I was trying to see, got me. I try to keep positivity up, man. Like, I don't want to be talking, man.

[Deebo Harrison]

Listen, man, sometimes in the walk, man, you got to go ahead and get in the shadows. Got to, you know what I'm saying? Especially doing this sometimes you got. Listen, telling the truth, if telling the truth, if telling your truth, it ain't even got to be the truth.

[Joe Hayden]

It's my truth.

[Deebo Harrison]

Telling your truth, telling my truth hurt somebody's feelings in my perspective. Let the pain flow.

[Joe Hayden]

Let the pain flow. Because you know why? Because you know if they ask me about it, I'm gonna be like, that's just how I really feel.

[Deebo Harrison]

Hit dog a holiday. Like they said. Hit dog a holler, baby. If he ain't feeling that way about it, he ain't gonna say nothing about it. When you see all these cats, they jump up, they feel real, real upset and, and, and want to fight the commentator because he said that I wasn't good at this or that. Hit dog a holler, you know what I'm saying?

[Joe Hayden]

I feel that. You know what? Debo Yep. Hit dog on holler.

[Deebo Harrison]

No question. No question. Hey. Kevin Stefanski revealed that he knew Thursday before the season finale he was getting fired by the Browns. Joe. Wow. He knew it. But you know what I find funny?

[Joe Hayden]

What do you find funny?

[Deebo Harrison]

He said Thursday before the season finale, which was against Cincinnati. Right. I believe if you go back, dude. All right, you remember after he got fired and they were playing the clip where he was whispering something into Mike's ear?

[Joe Hayden]

Yes.

[Deebo Harrison]

And Mike didn't pay no attention to it and kept walking. I think the man knew he was getting fired then. Okay. Because that was before the last game because he went with the. You know, and he went to look to see. Look to see if Mike was gonna give him a reaction. And Mike took off walking. Man, listen, he was like, man, I don't give a damn about your problems. I'm glad they yours and they ain't mine. I got more. I got more impressive to worry about. They about to. They thinking about. Fine.

[Joe Hayden]

They think about finding me.

[Deebo Harrison]

About you getting fired.

[Joe Hayden]

Come on, man.

[Deebo Harrison]

Hell out my ear. We ain't even that tight. Yeah, whatever. Yeah, what? Hey. Yeah, whatever.

[Narrator/Podcast Voice]

Yeah.

[Joe Hayden]

I'm out of here, man.

[Deebo Harrison]

What was it that we played them on the 28th of December, so I think he knew. He knew. He knew way before that, man, that he was getting fired. I think they might have told him that game. Look, hold up. Let me. Let me. Let me say it

[Narrator/Podcast Voice]

again.

[Deebo Harrison]

Put no undue pressure on you because you know him in the gym. They wasn't. They wasn't. They was. They wasn't the tightest. You know what I'm saying?

[Joe Hayden]

They was. They wasn't saying eye to eye.

[Deebo Harrison]

Hey, look here. I don't want to put no undo pressure on you, but I'm the gm. I make moves, and I'mma get you up out of here before they get me up out of here. You lose this. You, you, you. You. You lose this game to the. To the Pittsburgh Steelers. Hey, your ass five. See, that's what happened, Joe.

[Joe Hayden]

You.

[Deebo Harrison]

I'm just. I'm speculating. Allegedly. Conspiracy theory.

[Joe Hayden]

Conspiracy theory.

[Deebo Harrison]

Conspiracy theory. Thank you. That's my conspiracy theory. What's your conspiracy theory, Joe?

[Joe Hayden]

I don't. I don't think it was just a conspiracy theory, okay? Yeah, they told him that.

[Narrator/Podcast Voice]

It's.

[Joe Hayden]

It's just crazy to me, though, knowing that when you playing with.

[Narrator/Podcast Voice]

Your.

[Joe Hayden]

Playing for your coach and he. And you. And he know he fired, so all of that is fake juice. Everything's fake juice. Do you know what I'm saying? He out the door for real. And he's saying he happy that they got to tell his family and stuff so they could get their things in order.

[Narrator/Podcast Voice]

How.

[Joe Hayden]

How about the players that's about to get chopped every day too, like you? It just baffled my mind. Don't tell him. No, listen. Don't let him know. Fire his ass right after the game.

[Deebo Harrison]

Don't get on. Don't, don't, don't even go give him a heads up.

[Joe Hayden]

Nope, I didn't get a heads up. When we get cut, we don't get a heads up. I don't want to hear that.

[Deebo Harrison]

You made him.

[Joe Hayden]

You make a $10 million.

[Deebo Harrison]

Hey, Joe. Hey, Joe, if you don't. If you don't get to pick this game, we cutting your ass.

[Joe Hayden]

Just letting you know what, I'm smooth. Like, how dare you?

[Deebo Harrison]

Hey, I'm. Hey, I'm about to jump every route.

[Joe Hayden]

You know what I'm saying? Do you know if you took, like, if a nigga was going into the game like this? Hey, bro, you cut a nigga on Thursday and you tell him that he gotta play the game, you know what I'm saying? And you're chopped. You're chopped right after the season. Like, okay, I understand. Coaches are different. All that, man, that just baffled my mind that everything that he's talking about going forward, talking about, oh, no, we don't know if we're going nowhere talking to the players. We really all vested. And you're literally one foot in and one foot out.

[Deebo Harrison]

Well, hey, Joe, that's another part of being a coach and being so called professional.

[Joe Hayden]

You got the professionalism. You got to. But no, I love that.

[Deebo Harrison]

But I'm going because you want to be able to continue to get a job.

[Joe Hayden]

I'm saying that's crazy. We grown men out here and you're literally lying to my face like, oh, yeah, come on. Like, da, da, da. And all of this.

[Deebo Harrison]

That's the world of NFL head coaches. They will keep him.

[Joe Hayden]

Don't tell me nothing. Don't tell him nothing. Because now I'm. Nope, I'm good on it. Honestly. Don't tell them nothing. You better coach me up like you're trying to keep your job. Don't act like you already, your job's done. There's nothing you can do better than to keep your job. So you're doing half ass right now. All that is fake juice, you know what I'm saying? Like, you're fired, fool. Go home, Roger. Get your ball and go home.

[Deebo Harrison]

Hey, Joe, if they tell you if they tell you a week before I'm

[Joe Hayden]

taking my ball and I'm going home,

[Deebo Harrison]

not go Joe, I'm not going to leave and go home. Cuz that is just.

[Joe Hayden]

I'm not going to take my ball.

[Deebo Harrison]

I'm going keep it the professional what I'm going do.

[Joe Hayden]

I'm going keep it a be what I'm going. Do you know why? Because no, no. The honest guy don't lie. My tape is my resume. So that's why I will never shortcut the game. But I'm calling my agent. I'm not doing anything extra. Get me the out of here.

[Deebo Harrison]

Listen, you tell me before the game that I'm getting cut and you still want me to play in that game. Joe, as a player, how can you

[Joe Hayden]

just tell me that Coaches are different.

[Deebo Harrison]

Coaches different. You got to realize, hey man, but like I'm let you go. Hey, let me go home, tell, tell wife and the kids all that. Hey, listen, we go be up out of here now. So right now start looking around, see, see where you would ideally like to be just in case that people

[Joe Hayden]

get

[Deebo Harrison]

a head job with one of these. Okay? But if as a player, you tell me, hey listen, Monday, you tell me Monday that he said no, no, no, let's say Thursday game is on Thursday. I am not playing in that game. I promise you. I'm gonna come up with a mystery illness.

[Joe Hayden]

Debo.

[Deebo Harrison]

I'm not gonna go out there get hurt for you to mess up my chance to get shy again.

[Joe Hayden]

Debo. You, you are.

[Narrator/Podcast Voice]

You.

[Joe Hayden]

You're acting real funny now. You think you would do the most disrespectful stuff of all time. They tried to do that to you.

[Deebo Harrison]

I am not. I am not. I am not. Listen, I am not playing in the game because I' ma have a mystery illness pop up right there on game day.

[Joe Hayden]

On site, on site.

[Deebo Harrison]

Man, I can't. The course got me locked to this toilet, man. I got that rub. I'm down. Bam.

[Joe Hayden]

I'm throwing up. You're tripping.

[Deebo Harrison]

Hey, I'm coming. Help me out. That I'm coming out both ends, the front and the back.

[Joe Hayden]

I'm telling you. Debo Dubo listen to me now. Do you. I understand the professionalism. I understand it, I get it, I get it. You got to get your things in order.

[Deebo Harrison]

Ain't his head guaranteed though.

[Joe Hayden]

I hear you, I hear you.

[Deebo Harrison]

When they let him go, he still get paid.

[Joe Hayden]

He's still getting paid. Everything's guaranteed. You know you're not going to be there. No Longer. It's professionalism for show. Yeah, but still, why even. No, give him. Wait, wait. Give him two more days. Let him keep fighting for his life like he does. No, no. The way that they do the players so dirty with that. There's no heads up. You don't need no heads up. You got ms, Fool. You could fly your family to do whatever they need to do. Like all of that. Like, oh, my God, his feelings. No, you're chopping these drafted free agents that don't got nowhere to go. They sitting there looking crazy like, you know what I'm saying?

[Deebo Harrison]

Schools.

[Joe Hayden]

You putting the kids in the schools and all that for the players and then chop them. I don't want to hear none of this whole family sympathy for the coach making $10 million too. Like, I don't feel sympathy for us. Like, no, we got things to do. This is our job. We're getting paid. We're working. We're doing whatever. So don't. No sympathy for me. I gotta make sure my family good. So do you. Stefanski, chop him right later the same time. I thought I was gonna fight for my job to still be there with the Browns and. And then get cut. No, no, no, no. I don't approve.

[Deebo Harrison]

So.

[Narrator/Podcast Voice]

So you.

[Deebo Harrison]

You on the mindset. You like, okay, I ain't telling him nothing. Even though I'm about to fire his ass.

[Joe Hayden]

You like, hold up for sure.

[Deebo Harrison]

Game ended on Sunday.

[Joe Hayden]

Firing him on Sunday, right after the game away. I'm rocking with.

[Deebo Harrison]

I'm rocking with him. I'm right after the game. And then you telling him, go catch a commercial flight. Cause you ain't on the team playing. You don't play for us no more.

[Joe Hayden]

See, I wouldn't. I would. Okay, look, I'm. I don't have. I'm not. I'm not cold like that. I let him take all the team stuff all the way back. Bink, slam, fire.

[Deebo Harrison]

Damn, Joe. See, straight up, Joe. I had to talk to you there.

[Joe Hayden]

That's not good.

[Deebo Harrison]

I told you to let go a little, and you just went crazy.

[Joe Hayden]

No, I got to. No, you know what you told me to. This how you really feel? And you want to. This how you really feel?

[Deebo Harrison]

Let him know. Change your mind, though. You was like, oh, throwing him on a commercial flight ain't right.

[Joe Hayden]

Now they see that's what's not. That's what's not right. He can still take the flame back. You could fire him in the air because when we land, it's still gonna be the same thing you told him Two, you told him three days earlier what you thought that was going to be.

[Deebo Harrison]

It's just like.

[Joe Hayden]

But I'm tell you earlier, you know what I'm saying?

[Deebo Harrison]

So listen, I wanna, I wanna, I wanna get you that. He thought that was, he said in the interview. He said he thought that was a good thing. That was a respectful thing to do. Letting them know, you know, hey, ahead of time, hey, we go get your ass up out of here, but we letting you know now. Yeah, yeah. Oh no, no, no, no, no. Don't say nothing. Ain't nothing you could do to change this now. I'm just telling you what it is. It's done, it's over.

[Joe Hayden]

I'm done.

[Deebo Harrison]

It's over. I took it.

[Joe Hayden]

Hey. Yep, that's how I feel.

[Deebo Harrison]

You fight. Don't say nothing else. I don't want to hear nothing else. Don't thank me for nothing. Hey, just you fired. I won't say nothing else. Joe.

[Narrator/Podcast Voice]

Yo.

[Deebo Harrison]

Valerie Cat has hit a milestone. 301 million.2 dollar for 20, 26, brother. First time it's ever topped 300 million dollar increase over last year and it's a 40 increase in the last five years. Joe, what do you think it is? Joe?

[Joe Hayden]

I think it is amazing. I think that all of this, this what it is though, all of this TV money, all these different apps that we watching the games in are getting everybody paid. The owner's making money. So then the players are able to make money. Everybody's making money. The salary cap isn't going to go up if the owners aren't making dough. So if their check isn't getting bigger, then the players checks aren't getting bigger. So I'm all for the players checks getting bigger, the salary cap increasing, going to $301,000,000. But that's why quarterbacks can make $60,000,000 a year, receivers can make $35,000,000 a year. DBs can make $35 million a year. Left tackles is going up because now that's just what it is. So it makes it tough for like the mid level guys and the, how much is he worth? The Kenneth Gainwells, the Jalen Warrens, it's tougher for the middle guys than the high class guys, the big dudes. If you're getting that second contract, you're going to spank. If you're the top, top of the top, you're the top tier, you're top 10, you know what I'm saying? Your position, it's time to get paid, you know what I'm saying? If you're sitting around a little lower level, medium good player, but you're not that guy. You're not going to reset the market. You're not the Jamar chases. You're not Justin Jefferson, you're not my man, the corner from Denver, number two. You're not pat certain.

[Deebo Harrison]

You know what I'm saying?

[Joe Hayden]

These dudes are setting, resetting the markets. So when you're just kind of trying to figure out, where's my spot, where do I fit in? It looks crazy. But when dudes are saying, oh, yeah, he's getting a three year, $100 million for a cornerback, is he worth it? I'm like, that's the way that the salary is like, the money is up there because the best of the best, they're getting 40 million. So where do we fit these other guys? It sounds crazy. Oh, is he worth 15 million? Yes. Because the way that the money is working now, he can fit into the salary cap. So there's a lot of money, but the top of the tops is going to obviously always get it. Now with this being 300 million, now the quarterback's going to be making 65, 70 because the percent of the cap that they take when it was at $150 million is the same percent that they have for the cap of them now when it's $300 million. So the higher play dudes, it's amazing. The new dudes that are coming up to get their contracts, amazing. You're going to set generational numbers and you deserve it because that's the way the league is going. These dudes are making money, so, so should you. I want you to maximize on it, crush it. Everybody, go get your dough. But we're looking at it because end of the day is this high because all these apps, the NFL, the owners, they're making so much money that now you can get your little bigger cut of the pie because they're getting these checks coming to each individual owner. That's $400 million. Bing. Before they sell a jersey, a ticket, a hot dog, a anything, they could cover their cap, 100 million up before they make one sale. So blessings to the players. That's why I love seeing dudes get the bag. I never try to talk bad about them because I still want you to get your bag. Trust me, but go get your bag. But this the way the league works. Them dudes is getting checked over, checked. So that's why I don't feel bad for you. Ask them for your bag. You want more? The facilities to look better or things like that. It's not league, dudes.

[Deebo Harrison]

I don't want to say. Joe, go ahead. You are very happy about this, right?

[Joe Hayden]

I am ecstatic.

[Deebo Harrison]

Well, in a.

[Joe Hayden]

In a way.

[Deebo Harrison]

Listen, Joe, go ahead. Time for me to talk. Know why you happy? Because you're uninformed.

[Joe Hayden]

Oh.

[Deebo Harrison]

So unofficially, the estimates from. They said five years was. So let's go to 2020. The unofficial report was like 17 billion to. Now they're saying it's going to exceed at least 23, 25 billion this. This past year, all the way up to 27 being over 25 plus billion. They're thinking more like 27 billion by 27. And your salary cap is $301 million. Two dollars. So it's roughly $9.6 billion. That's a lot of money, right, Joe?

[Joe Hayden]

What, 9.6 billion?

[Deebo Harrison]

Yeah, that's a lot of money. Yes, 9.6 billion. But under the current CBA that is in place, it should be a 48. 52 split. And that CBA lasts until 2030. Right. And it will end at the end of 2030. Now, I ain't the smartest cat in the books, but if you're doing 25 billion this year, or you did 25 billion and you're doing a 4852 revenue split, if you. Minus 9.6 billion from 23. 25 billion, that don't add up to a 4852 split, do it, Joe? Why don't that add up, Joe? You know why.

[Narrator/Podcast Voice]

You.

[Joe Hayden]

Please tell me.

[Deebo Harrison]

Well, behind closed doors, Joe, the deal that was made was in favor of the NFL owners. So first thing they do is we're going to split 48 52, but we're going to take at least two, I think, if not $3 billion off the top first for us. That's something that their NFLPA allowed in 2010 when they first found out about it.

[Joe Hayden]

Okay, so we got. So so far, we got. I was unaware. To three billion roughed.

[Deebo Harrison]

Two. Two. Anywhere from two to three billion scraped off the top first for the NFL and their owners. Okay. Okay. All right.

[Narrator/Podcast Voice]

Now.

[Deebo Harrison]

And that's because the nflp, a executive director we had, who was Smith, is trash. That's another reason why, when before Gene Upshaw passed, he was like, we're going to be locked out for a year because they put that on the table and they were not willing to negotiate that away. And he wasn't going for it. Yeah, see, that's the crazy part. No. So everybody. That's right now in the nflpa, the director, the, the, the people that work for the nflpa, the committee, the player reps, this is something that they should know. They should already have knowledge of. So for the. So for you not to know that and them to continue to do these deals and keep that in there and on the table, it's ridiculous. Nobody that is currently in the nflpa, working for the NFLPA in that organization, in any way, sense, shape or form should have a shot at being elected the executive director of the nflpa. And that again, is another reason why I am running for executive director and I should be voted to win as executive director. The NFL said they're going to move quick to renegotiate. You're going to move quick to renegotiating. The contract is not up until 2030. Why is that, Joe? Why, Joe?

[Joe Hayden]

Why is that the 2030.

[Deebo Harrison]

Why are they trying to renegotiate this contract so fast, Joe, before the 2030 collective bargaining agreement is even up?

[Joe Hayden]

Please, Debo, you tell me. Because you know the collector bargain.

[Deebo Harrison]

This is why, Joe. This is why. So if you look, Joe, I'm ill information, Joe.

[Joe Hayden]

Okay, please.

[Deebo Harrison]

So if you look at the super bowl in Atlanta in 2028, okay, it ain't got a date on it. So the NFL leaving that open for a reason. They hoping to get 18 games by then, okay? And then you know what they go do? They go cut your check 18 ways and you'll get no more money added to your contract, the same as they did when they gave us 17 games. But you're so concerned with player safety that you left the date open because your real objective is to have a 18 game season by 2028. Because, you know, highly likelihood of them putting in another trash director in the NFLPA is very, very likely. Because the whole process of who they pick, how they pick, whose name they put in is so secretive, nobody even knows how it's done or can speak on how it's done. And if they weren't trash, this is what they would have been talking about at that press conference. But like I said, Joe, that's why you're happy. Yes, it's a good thing it went up. But did it really go up in the percentage it was supposed to?

[Joe Hayden]

Because that's okay, Deebo. This is what I'm saying. I am with you, NFLPA wise that it should. The percentage, the $3 billion off the top. Ill aware. I was not aware.

[Deebo Harrison]

It's a minimum. At least two. I know it's minimum.

[Joe Hayden]

Minimum two to three bill off the top when we saying 52 to 40, it's supposed to be a 48. 52 split.

[Deebo Harrison]

Right.

[Joe Hayden]

And they're not doing that. Is that.

[Deebo Harrison]

They're doing it. They're just saying, hey, it's a 52. 48 split. After we scrape this.

[Joe Hayden]

After we scrape.

[Deebo Harrison]

And the NFL PA Executive director Smith grabbed. He went on ahead and signed that. Yes. Cool.

[Narrator/Podcast Voice]

Why?

[Deebo Harrison]

You know, it was a good deal. Good deal, my ass. He got his.

[Joe Hayden]

Yes. So that's okay. We saying the same. We need to get some real people in there.

[Deebo Harrison]

You need to get me in there. That's what we need.

[Joe Hayden]

We need to get you in there. We need to get you in.

[Deebo Harrison]

You want to inform.

[Joe Hayden]

No, no, we need to get.

[Deebo Harrison]

You guys are informed.

[Joe Hayden]

No, we need to get you. We need to listen. We need to get you in there to go find that thing.3 billion and get that bus down into the 5248. So what I'm saying was when I'm happy that end of the day, it's going up because the money's going up. But if we're not getting the whole thing. That's what you're saying that the NFLPA, what you're fighting for is it could be another 3 billion that goes to the players. Let's go at least two. At least two. At least two to three. Let's say two. Let's say two to get that for the players.

[Deebo Harrison]

Where.

[Joe Hayden]

I'm with you. So two things could be right at the same time. Happy that it's going up, but blown. And we need to make sure that we get inside there and figure out that three. Cause you said they're scraping off the top. They're getting more. There's 52, 48. If we can just split that. That's what the deal is. But he signed the deal to let them scrape the two off the top.

[Deebo Harrison]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe Hayden]

Okay. See?

[Deebo Harrison]

And then he signed more rules.

[Joe Hayden]

When does the next deal.

[Deebo Harrison]

Look, him being the executive director.

[Joe Hayden]

When is the next. When are we doing the next deal?

[Deebo Harrison]

It's supposed to be something coming up, like right now, but I still ain't heard if I'm informed. From what I understand. I think I heard something that they are actually in the process or have the names that they're going to submit. I heard nothing from Cam Hayward. I heard nothing from Calais Campbell. I ain't heard nothing from nobody. Like, I need somebody that is not absolutely connected to the hip or the NFLPA to let me know something. Everybody in there, as far as I'm concerned, they in Collusion.

[Joe Hayden]

They include. They goose. That's what I'm saying. Yes, because you trying to get the info. You.

[Deebo Harrison]

Nothing.

[Joe Hayden]

Like nothing.

[Deebo Harrison]

Nothing.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah, that's. That's a change. That's janky. That's junkie promoters.

[Deebo Harrison]

But hey, it's not about the players getting what they want. It's about these guys who are in these positions keeping those positions and furthering those positions once they're done with the league or the league is done with them. That's it. That's it.

[Joe Hayden]

Facts, facts, facts. You know way better than me. I need to get more.

[Deebo Harrison]

Yeah, go ahead, baby, go. Hey, listen, all it's gonna do is upset you a little bit. That's the problem, man. Nobody's informed. But they're saying everyone's informed. Stop it, dude. No, they're not.

[Joe Hayden]

They're not.

[Deebo Harrison]

No, they're not. You don't have to. You don't have to prove what you're doing to them. Yes, you do. That's the play. No. Well, you don't have to anymore because all you got to do is cater to your committee and your NFL and not even. Hell, you ain't even got to really cater to the NFL. The player reps that much anymore. The committee has gotten more power than the reps now. Like when the media is telling you your players are not informed, they're not informed. It's a problem, buddy. I don't think. Who gives a damn what you think, man? Get out of here.

[Joe Hayden]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Deebo Harrison]

Guaranteed Human.