Deebo & Joe - Part 1: Will Cam Heyward be back? + Steelers Coaching Staff Hires

Summary

Club Shay Shay Podcast Summary

Episode: Deebo & Joe - Part 1: Will Cam Heyward be back? + Steelers Coaching Staff Hires

Date: February 10, 2026
Hosts: James "Deebo" Harrison & Joe Haden

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Overview

In this lively episode, James “Deebo” Harrison and Joe Haden break down the latest Steelers news, focusing on recent coaching hires, the hotly debated future of Cam Heyward, and salary cap implications for Pittsburgh's key players. With their trademark banter and inside knowledge as former players, Deebo and Joe analyze new additions to the coaching staff, speculate about roster moves, and get real about the business side of football.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Kicking Off & Housekeeping

• [02:41–03:47]
  • Joe welcomes listeners and asks Deebo how he’s doing. Deebo shares he’s finally moved back into his house, feeling ecstatic and ready to pod from home.
  • Banter about finally having a “brick firm” house that won’t blow down.
    • “Now my house is made of brick, firm.” – Deebo (03:26)

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2. Steelers Coaching Staff Hires

A. D-line Coach: Domata Peko

• [03:48–04:11; 13:47–15:58]
  • Joe reacts enthusiastically to the hiring of “his dude” Domata Peko, former Bengals run-stopper, as defensive line coach.
  • Praises Peko’s longevity and technique, suggesting he brings real respect and know-how to the role.
    • “He is going to go in there and teach RD line the stuff that we kept talking about: Why is you not dropping your hips? Why is you not using proper technique? This dude … did it for a long time at a high level.” – Joe (13:53)
  • Deebo agrees, emphasizing the importance of having a coach who “did it at a very high level” and can provide gritty, honest coaching beyond the usual “coach talk.” (15:58)

B. Offensive Coordinator: Brian Angelichio

• [04:03–04:55; 11:10–12:09]
  • Discussion of Angelichio’s previous stint as a TE coach with the Browns. Deebo admits to not knowing him well but trusts McCarthy’s decision.
    • “I didn't really get to learn under him too much, but I think McCarthy knows more than I do. So I'm going to go ahead and sit back… let you pick your puzzle pieces, you be the cook…” – Deebo (11:12)

C. Special Teams: Danny Crossman

• [05:17–07:27]
  • Crossman’s long track record as a special teams coach reviewed.
  • Joe notes Crossman’s Miami tenure (2019–24), with a quick rise and fall from assistant head coach, emphasizing the brutal “sacrificial lamb” nature of NFL coaching changes (06:15).
  • Both defend his year off (2025), seeing it as a “freshen up” opportunity, returning with “something to prove.”

D. Assistant Head Coach (Secondary): Joe Whitt Jr.

• [07:27–09:46]
  • Joe is “real excited” about Whitt Jr., noting his D-coordinator experience in Washington (though the D was ranked last) and DB coaching time with Dallas, where units eventually finished in the top 10 vs. the pass.
  • Sees Whitt’s new “assistant head coach” title as grooming for a possible eventual head coaching position.
    • “He gets to sit back and actually be an assistant … help me out. He's on my same vibe.” – Deebo (10:11)

E. Wide Receivers Coach: Adam Henry

• [21:25–21:48]
  • Admits limited knowledge; Deebo and Joe both defer to Mike McCarthy’s vision.

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3. McCarthy’s Approach to Staff Building

• [10:11–12:24; 12:24–13:47]
  • Deebo expresses trust in Mike McCarthy bringing in “dudes that are gonna be able to lean in on his system” and that there's “one message” in the building.
  • Joe praises McCarthy’s willingness to hire strong assistants without ego, referencing recent examples of other franchises’ successes with a collaborative approach.
    • “Look what happened … He wasn't so into self that he realized, yo, this is team… Look at how the defense, crazy.” – Joe (13:09)

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4. Cam Heyward’s Future with the Steelers

• [22:19–34:50]
  • Joe notes Cam Hayward’s cryptic social media post (slamming a book closed), sparking retirement rumors.
    • “He had a little post that he did… slamming the book closed. You see that?...that looks like a closed book. Like I’m done reading.” – Deebo (22:19)
  • Deebo and Joe debate contract nuances: roster vs. signing bonuses, what signals Cam might be sending to the front office, and whether he’s leveraging for an extension. Both highlight the business chess game for aging stars:
    • “He’s not saying he's returning, he's also not saying that he's not retiring. So they're gonna have to go to him now.” – Joe (26:02)
  • Both agree: the ball is in the Steelers’ court, and ownership will need to “see where his head’s at.” (34:41)
  • Deebo frames it as a classic negotiation: “If they’re gonna do a whole switch … Mike McCarthy … they don’t owe Cam nothing … 37 years old at 14 and a half million.” (29:54)

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5. Other Cap & Roster Questions

A. Edge Rushers: Highsmith, Herbig

• [38:11–41:24]
  • Joe and Deebo walk through the crowded roster at edge rusher: T.J. Watt (“ain’t going nowhere”), Alex Highsmith (next cap hit $18M), and Nick Herbig approaching his own new payday.
  • Speculate on possible cost-saving moves, trade possibilities (e.g., Highsmith), and how to keep Herbig without breaking the bank.
    • “You got your young dudes coming in… it's good problems to have, but it's real problems to have.” – Deebo (39:36)
  • Joe details his own experience with contract cycles and restructuring (41:23).

B. Inside Linebacker: Roquan Smith / Queen

• [41:28–42:34]
  • Queen’s upcoming $10.8M base salary and roster bonus ($2.5M) make him a likely cap casualty.

C. Secondary & Tight Ends:

• [42:55–45:09]
  • Joey Porter Jr. flagged as a must-pay soon.
  • Pat Freiermuth discussed (“they might let go of Fire Move”), especially with availability of younger, cheaper alternatives at tight end.

D. Depth & Free Agents:

• [46:11–47:47]
  • The real-world economics of keeping or losing rotation players (e.g., Jonnu Smith, Gainwell) amid cap constraints.
    • “If it's disrespectful, slap in your face that they offer you, you know, 2 million and somebody already got something on the table for you for four and a half, five … you gotta get your [money].” – Deebo (47:09)

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6. Philosophy: Rings or Money?

• [47:53–53:36]
  • An engaging, honest exchange: would you give up half (or more) of your career earnings for a Super Bowl ring?
    • Joe: “For me, I would give up 50 of what I made for one super bowl because I know the feeling of winning one and losing one.” (48:12)
    • Deebo: “I know the feeling of being able to provide for my family... if it was meant for me, it was meant for me.” (48:23)
  • Both reflect on how their early NFL environments (Pittsburgh vs. Cleveland) shaped those priorities—Deebo saw championship culture every day, Joe learned to protect his own interests when the team environment failed to match his passion.

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Memorable Quotes

• Joe Haden:

  • “He is going to go in there and teach RD line the stuff that we kept talking about… did it at a high level.” (13:53)
  • “He done came through and got him a Super Bowl off rip because he wasn’t so into self that he realized, yo, this is team. I’m gonna get everybody around me that can help me.” (13:09)
  • “For me, I would give up 50 of what I made for one Super Bowl because I know the feeling of winning one and losing one.” (48:12)

• James “Deebo” Harrison:

  • “Sometimes you can’t do everything. Everybody’s not Bill Belichick… you gotta be able to get other dudes in good positions that know what's going on.” (13:25)
  • “I’m more leaving it on him [McCarthy]. I think Mike McCarthy, he’s got his hand in all of these ships… you’re bringing in certain people for certain reasons.” (11:12)
  • “I love the game, but it really could show you, like, you’re in this. It’s a business… So money gonna come, I’m gonna get signed, I’m gonna do my deals. But that’s when I was like, if I would’ve got drafted to Pittsburgh…” (51:26)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [03:48] — Steelers hire Domata Peko as DL coach
• [04:03] — Brian Angelichio hired as OC
• [05:17] — Special teams coordinator Danny Crossman's resume
• [07:27] — Joe Whitt Jr. as assistant HC/secondary
• [12:09] — Trust in McCarthy’s system and hires
• [13:47–15:58] — Deep dive into Domata Peko's coaching style and legacy
• [22:19] — Cam Heyward's future, cryptic social post and contract logistics
• [34:41] — “You have to” — Owners and coach must talk to Cam Hayward
• [38:11] — Highsmith vs. Herbig: Edge rusher contract crunch
• [42:55] — Tight end position and Freiermuth’s status
• [47:53] — Money vs. Super Bowl Ring: Joe and Deebo’s debate

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Tone and Takeaways

• Authentic, direct, and playful. Joe and Deebo riff on football the way only former pros can, mixing business acumen with locker room candor.
• Emphasis on transition: The Steelers are in a pivotal offseason, making big coaching changes and facing crucial veteran contracts.
• Underlying theme: Trust in leadership (McCarthy), realism about the NFL as a business, and a wistful nostalgia for the pure drive of chasing either rings or generational wealth.

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For Steelers fans or NFL followers, this episode delivers an unfiltered inside look at football strategy, team-building, and the lifelong ripple effects of the decisions made both on and off the field.

Transcript

[James Debo Harrison]

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[Joe Hayden]

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[Joe Hayden]

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[Joe Hayden]

Welcome to this episode of Deebo and Joe. I'm your host, James Debo Harrison, and I'm here with my co host, Joe Hayden. Please make sure you like, subscribe and download where you get your podcast. How you doing today, Joe?

[James Debo Harrison]

Brother Debo, you know, I'm doing great. Great, great, great. Another day. I'm actually back into my house now officially. So officially, I'm geek. I woke up this morning, I was able to wake up in my bed, take a shower, roll over and get ready for the pod. Get ready for the show at the house.

[Joe Hayden]

At the house.

[James Debo Harrison]

At the house.

[Joe Hayden]

At the house. You feeling good about yourself?

[James Debo Harrison]

Oh, my God, Diva. I'm ecstatic.

[Joe Hayden]

Ain't nothing else gonna happen, right? We good?

[James Debo Harrison]

No, Debo, no. Now my house is made of brick firm.

[Joe Hayden]

Brick firm.

[James Debo Harrison]

That'll blow my house down.

[Joe Hayden]

Is good. It's good, it's good. Not a lemon.

[James Debo Harrison]

No limit.

[Joe Hayden]

No limit. No. No. Okay. I mean, I hope, I hope. I hope that's the truth. I hope that's the truth. I hope it stayed like that. I really. I pray for you, brother. I pray for you. I really do. I hope. I hope that's what happens for you.

[James Debo Harrison]

Okay.

[Joe Hayden]

Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah, definitely, man. We go. We're gonna go ahead and jump into some, you know, some of that. Still a news. Hey, bro, did you see? They hired my guy. Domital Peco. You. You. They. They hired my dude. That's my dude. Dude.

[James Debo Harrison]

That's your dude?

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah, that's my. That's my dude, dude. I like him, man. He's a good dude, man. Every. You know, as a matter of fact, let's just go ahead and review what we got. The first one was. All right, so the first one for the Steelers, we're gonna go with Angelito. We. We got him as the old coordinator, brother.

[James Debo Harrison]

And that was the crazy part. I forgot about Brian Tolicho. I just don't get about him because I had so much rotation and he was only a one year tight ends coach for. For the. For the Browns with me. Good dude. Loved him to death. He was super cool. I think he coached my man Gary Barnage to go to the Pro Bowl. So when I saw his face, I'm like, man, he looks super familiar. But that coaching carousel was going crazy when I was there, so I only saw him for a little Bit, and he was on the opposite side of the ball, so we didn't really get to kick it too much. But definitely, every time I seen. I remember them, I'm like, that's crazy of me. So. Yes. Okay.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah. So right now, Mike McCarthy has put together what we got. 1, 2, 3, 4. We got five so far. We still don't have a decoordinator yet, but we go. We go run down the list of everybody.

[James Debo Harrison]

Are you sure? I thought we.

[Joe Hayden]

We hired.

[James Debo Harrison]

But it's not. The decordinator. Isn't the one for the Raider.

[Joe Hayden]

Oh, we hired. We'll get to it. We'll get to it. Okay.

[James Debo Harrison]

Okay.

[Joe Hayden]

What. What. What we did was. Like I said, we'll get to it. Then we got. Right now, we got the special teams. We got another Danny.

[James Debo Harrison]

Okay.

[Joe Hayden]

Special teams coordinator is Danny Crossman. He is now the special teams coordinator.

[James Debo Harrison]

Okay. Okay.

[Joe Hayden]

What you got? You got any information on him? What you. What you think of him?

[James Debo Harrison]

I don't know. I'm not too familiar.

[Joe Hayden]

Okay, so he was the. He was a special teams coordinator in Miami. I believe it was 19 through 24.

[James Debo Harrison]

Okay.

[Joe Hayden]

And I believe in 21, he was actually with Flores and. Okay, he was actually assistant head coach as well as special teams coordinator. I think he came in 19 with Flores and was promoted in 21 to assistant head coach then. And then basically, you know, demoted back to special teams coach, I think, when McDaniels got there.

[James Debo Harrison]

Okay.

[Joe Hayden]

And then in last. No, not last year, but 24, he was. He was basically fired. You know what I'm saying? That was. You know, it's a 9 and 8 season. I think that was like, the first losing season that I had in maybe four or five years. So, you know how it goes. Somebody got to go.

[James Debo Harrison]

Somebody got to go.

[Joe Hayden]

Somebody got to go.

[James Debo Harrison]

He got to show. He going.

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[James Debo Harrison]

He's trying to turn this thing around with. With the Steelers.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah. So in 25, though, he wasn't nowhere. But, I mean, I'm hoping he was doing something. But when you go and you look back at his. You look back at his history, like, dude has coached special teams or being a special teams coordinator. Looked like almost 20 years, bro.

[James Debo Harrison]

Like, you say, he didn't coach last year, so he might have been doing the same thing McCarthy was doing. Take the year off, freshen up. You know what I'm saying? See what the new things are coming in, the new schemes, and then come fire yourself off. You got some shit to prove. He ready to go. So I, like, I'm not mad at him taking a year off. I'm glad, like you said, all this experience he's had previous, being able to take that one quick year off, learn, see what's going on, and now come out there and you got to get it going well.

[Joe Hayden]

Also, you. He made it through a whole. Another coach, you know what I'm saying? The coach that brought you in, you made it through the other coach. They were doing well. And then, you know, when things started going downhill, somebody got to go. So, you know, he's not going to get rid of the guys that he brought in. McDaniel's not going to get rid of the guys he brought in first. You go get rid of the. You know, you got to give him a sacrificial lamb. So, yeah, so it looks like that you're trying to do something, you know what I'm saying? But the other guy that I'm, like, real excited about is The Joe Whit Jr. Yes. Yeah, I'm angle lie. I'm really. I'm really excited about that because he got the label with the assistant head coach secondary. Now, this is the guy you talking about, you thinking was the D coordinator, because he was the D coordinator in Washington.

[James Debo Harrison]

Okay.

[Joe Hayden]

In last year, in 24, 25. So they were. Yeah, they were kind of trash. In 20, they were dead last. You can't get no more trash than that.

[James Debo Harrison]

You can't get any worse than that.

[Joe Hayden]

But this is the guy that was the D coordinator. And what's the name? You know what? You might be right. Patrick Graham. I think the coordinator now.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yes. Yes, that's it. Yes, that's it.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he was there, and I think he was the DB secondary coach in Dallas. That's what it was. Dallas 21 to 24. 23. 21 to 23. And I think in 21, they were like. They weren't good. It was like a 20. But the previous years, he. The. The post. Years after that, he went eight passing defense and a five.

[James Debo Harrison]

Okay.

[Joe Hayden]

From there, he went to go be the D coordinator. But you know how some coaches, like, they do a better job being able to concentrate on that one position than, you know, the whole defense. And when him being, you know, put in that position of assistant head, you know, that's an opportunity. He's a younger guy. I think he's a year younger than me. I think he might be 46, maybe 47. So, like, now he gets to sit back and actually be an assistant, you know, head coach, which means he could possibly be the person that could take Over. Ah, when the time comes.

[James Debo Harrison]

Okay, McCarthy.

[Joe Hayden]

And now he gets to sit there and watch and learn under the leadership, Mike McCarthy. And hopefully things go as we hope they go. And. And he plans as McCarthy plans it to go, and he may be the next person in line for that position. So, I mean, I like. I like this one. What you. What do you think?

[James Debo Harrison]

I like it also, man. I like the building from within, like you said. I like McCarthy bringing in all of these dudes, and I'm letting. I'm more leaving it on him. I don't really know, you know what I'm saying? Too many other guys, but I'm thinking Mike McCarthy, he's got his hand in all of these ships. He believes that these dudes that he's bringing in are dudes that are going to be able to lean in on his system. And assistant head coach means probably this guy's on what I'm on. I want to kind of give him the role to be able to help me out. He's on my same vibe. So I'm more of believing in McCarthy because I know he knows what he needs. I know he knows what he needs to be successful. And I don't think that he's trying to shortchange himself and get people that aren't really that talented around him because he wants to be the main guy. I think he's trying to, at the same time, get dudes that vibe with him that are on the same page that he feels like are gonna listen. And there's one message. So all these dudes that he's bringing in are having the same message that McCarthy has. So I really. You know what I'm saying? You as him, I'm more leaning on. I'm believing on you, Mike McCarthy, to bring in these guys because you know what it is? They're allowing you to give you frames. It looks like you're bringing in certain people for certain reasons. I might not know what it is other people might be like, man, no, his stats didn't look too good over there. But Mike, he believes in you. You guys talk the same language, and that's going to be the language that's going around in the building. So with these hires, like, I kind of. Some of them, I don't know the dudes like, my man, the man Brian, you know, the tight ends coach for the Browns. He's there now, the offensive coordinator. I didn't really get to learn under him too much, But I think McCarthy knows more than I do. So I'm going to go Ahead and sit back and, man, I think that's a dumb hire, like, or. You know what I'm saying? I'm a think. I think you, Mike McCarthy, you know more than I do right now. So I'm going to just observe, let you pick your puzzle pieces, let you be the cook, let you be the chef, and you see all of what's going on. And now when the season comes and we seeing how things are moving, how things are working, then I'll be able to judge, man. Now, tight ends look weak out here.

[Joe Hayden]

You know what I'm saying?

[James Debo Harrison]

Oh, defense, look, dudes are running around not knowing their jobs, you know what I'm saying? So when you start seeing the communication, we're going to let it build now, like, I don't know if it's good or bad. I'm going to say I believe in what Mike McCarthy's trying to do because he knows what he needs. You know what I'm saying?

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah, yeah. And when you say about the ego of. Of. Of a head coach, man, you look at Danny, Danny Crossman, who was assistant head coach when Mike McDaniels came in, first thing he did was put him back to special teams coordinator. And that's one of the things that you saw over in Seattle, that when that head coach came in, he was like, yo, I'm bringing an assistant. I'm making the decoordinate. What was his name? Yes, he made him assistant head coach with him. Like, a lot of. A lot of coaches, especially when you get that head job, they don't want to come in there with an assistant head coach. Just a lot of ego involved in that.

[James Debo Harrison]

But he was equalist. Look, look, look what happened.

[Joe Hayden]

He done came through and got him a Super bowl off rip because he wasn't so into self that he realized, yo, this is team. I'm gonna get everybody around me that can help me. And look at that. Look. Look at how the defense. Crazy.

[James Debo Harrison]

Some people can do things certain ways. You know how some people like that, they're good at delegating responsibilities. Like, it takes a man to be like, I'm not. I don't know all that. So I'm gonna delegate this to you and give you the responsibility instead of being able to have a hand and everything. Like, sometimes you can't do everything. Everybody's not Bill Belichick, you know what I'm saying? You gotta be able to get other dudes in good positions that know what's going on.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah. And my guy, that's. That. That's my dude, man, like, I know this dude, man. He's a good dude. I know his character, man. I know his drive, you know, just from his time in Cincinnati. I think we're like, what was it like 2000, 2006 to 2016? Like this dude was a run stopping D tackle, bruh. So he is going to go in there and teach RD line. The stuff that we kept talking about. Why is you not dropping your hips? Why is you not using proper technique? Like this dude was a dude that would drop that hip. He used proper technique so they couldn't get him out of there. And you're talking about with the Cincinnati Bengals, you know, 10, 11 years, whatever that is. And I think he was a guy that was like average, maybe 40, and he had a couple season over 60, 61, 62 tackles as a D tackle. Dude, that's big. That's big. That means you are a serious run stopping, you know, the tackle. So I, I love, I love this hire, especially for the ability to be able to teach and have these guys look at somebody that then did it. You can go back and see film of. They did it for a long time. They did it at a high level. I think he played what, 15 years total. He did another two, no, another four years at maybe one or two, three other places, whatever. It was. So like. And then he just came from over there in Colorado. So, you know, this is. I like McCarthy going and, and doing this, giving him this opportunity. He obviously sees something. He probably sees the same thing I see, you know, just from his time playing. And he's obviously had to have conversations with him. Smart dude, man. Yeah, like good. I mean, really good dude, man. Like, I actually hate when I had to run through him. Like, and, and like. Because that's when they had to wedge, you know what I'm saying? He was like, yeah. I'm like, dude, I gotta come. You know, I got, I gotta try and I gotta try and put you to sleep. I'm sorry. You know, you're a good person, but I gotta get my job done. Facts, what do you, what do you, what do you think of this and what you know of him?

[James Debo Harrison]

I am on the same wavelength that you are Drake D tackle. And like you said, you got somebody that did it at a very high level that you can look at and you can see and he can critique you and really teach you what it is that needs to be done. That he's not just giving you coach talk, he's giving you like, I know there's some dirty things in your position where you might got to hold two where it's not going to be your play to make you doing this so your linebackers are free. He's having to able to have these real talks about like it's not going to be all pretty but trust me, we know your job is getting done. You will be compensated for your job. It's not all about trying to switch swim through gaps, leaving people open. Like your job is dirty. Your job is sometimes you're not making a play, you're holding on to people. You're getting, you're not getting driven, you're just putting your knee down. So the things that he's going to be able to teach the dudes and be able to like know like when you're watching tape Support for the show.

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[Tara Davis Woodhull]

This is US Olympic gold medalist Tara.

[Joe Hayden]

Davis Woodhull and I'm US Paralympic gold medalist Hunter Woodhull.

[Tara Davis Woodhull]

As athletes, our lives are about having.

[Joe Hayden]

A clear path and a team that you can absolutely trust.

[Tara Davis Woodhull]

So when it came to getting the.

[Joe Hayden]

Best mortgage, we chose PennyMac.

[Tara Davis Woodhull]

PennyMac is proud to be the official mortgage provider of Team USA and you.

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[James Debo Harrison]

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[James Debo Harrison]

He can show them what he did and tell them what he expects of them. You know what I'm saying? Like this is not good enough if you're getting blown off the ball. No, we're detached. Like that's not acceptable. That's not what's happening in our room. Because he can show you him not getting blown off the ball or if he does, that's not acceptable. So just having somebody in there that's done it at a high level that can talk. The stuff that you've been saying. Every time we watch the tape, we like this, ah, we're getting blown back right here. We can't have that. We need to be able to hold to like just the things that we say of D tackle talk. They're going to be having that D tackle talking. It's just really, you're going to have to have goons in here. That's not letting people horse you. You're not getting thrown around. This is just the way that the room rocks. So when you got dudes that did it at the high level and they walk around, I'm a goon. Like you think my D linemen are just going to get thrown around. No. Like, it's just an attitude that comes along with it with somebody that did it before and is walking around like, no, I'm a D lineman. I'm not getting thrown around. And none of my boys in the room are. You know what I'm saying? So I like that in that perspective and just being able to have a coach that's like, no, this is our stat. This is what we really do. Because I can show you better than I could tell you.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely, definitely. Like I said, big time buy in. Like, they'll get to know him. Dude, it's no way. You can't like this dude, man. He's. Yeah. And like I said, he can play the game. He played the game at a. At a high level, so with, you know, okay. Organization, you know what I'm saying? I ain't gonna lie. I went over there in 2013. I took the north with me. You know, I took the AFC north title with me over there.

[James Debo Harrison]

But, you know, that's not here nor there.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah, that's. Yeah. You know, here nor there. But I think we had Danny Poco. Okay, wide receivers coach Adam Henry. What do you know about him? I don't. I don't know much about him. Same.

[James Debo Harrison]

Man, listen, I'm. All these coaches right here. I'm going, McCarthy, I'm just going to go ahead, rock. We going.

[Joe Hayden]

Okay, well, you go rock with McCarthy then. I know we got a lot of things that needs to be done picked up. People need to be put in positions wise, all that other stuff, but we got people that are there right now. We may end up having to make some decisions on. So who. Who are some of those. Those guys you think we. We need to look at it or what we're going to do as far as making. Making decisions on. And before we even get to that, dude, I think. I think Cam is gonna retire. Dude.

[James Debo Harrison]

He.

[Joe Hayden]

He had a little. Little post that he did. We got that. Do we got that? He's slamming the book closed. You see that with that. What's. What's that? What that mean to you, Joe?

[James Debo Harrison]

It could be like, I'm done. Yeah. I mean. All right, so that looks like a closed book. Like the book. Like, I'm done reading. It could be I'm finished with a chapter of a book, but this is what I'm gonna say. I know Cam Hayward is a baller. He loves Pittsburgh. And once you start getting older and once you start. You know what I'm saying? The team looks at you in a certain way. And I think the Pittsburgh Steelers have been doing a great job with taking care of Cam. You know, once you start getting up there in the league and once you start getting your first contract, then you start getting your second contract. And mind you, Cam has done everything the right way. I think Cam and the Steelers have been working this whole thing perfectly because it comes a time where Cam, at the same time, looking at him, he's balling. So when you're looking at your play, you're playing at a Pro bowl level, you're playing at an all pro level. But when you look at a team where, money wise, we are compensating you at first, like when your first deal, we're getting you up and up into the bag. Second one, we're still compensating you. Right now you're 35, 36, and we're paying you 14 and a half million dollars. They're looking like this is not like a vetted minimum. You know what I'm saying? So it's not like we're giving you the highest paid, but we're giving you something good. So I'm looking at it where Cam, if you want to do an extension, I think the Steelers are looking at it like this is going to be year 14, 15, kind of let him play it out. No, no harm, no foul. Because I mean, looking at the deal by the second or is the second day of the league year, Debo, they gonna make a decision. Cause Cam's whole thing is in his roster bonus. And they gotta pay that 12.9 million on the second day of the league year coming up this year. So after that, his base salary is 1.3. So we gonna know a lot what they're gonna do with Cam. I think they're gonna just keep him one more year with Cam be to play this year out. 14 million. I think it's good with the Steelers.

[Joe Hayden]

It ain't about them keeping them, though. You gotta. You gotta. Well, I. Let me.

[James Debo Harrison]

That's what I'm saying.

[Joe Hayden]

So it was an. It was an article that came out where some beat writer had said that Cam will be seeking to, you know, looking to seek a contract extension. And he's in the last year of his deal. And now we had this post that was a few days before that. So when that happens, you know me, I gotta go into my bag, I gotta sit back and I gotta think, if I'm camp, what am I gonna do? What am I doing now? Like you said, he has a What is it? A roster, Roster bone that is guaranteed at a certain time. Okay. I post this given the thing that I'm done. But then I hear or see this article, I'm on the outside looking in. Of course, I have not talked to Cam, so I don't know if this is what it is, but I'm looking at both sides. I'm looking from his side, I'm looking at this side. And I'm playing a little devil's advocate too. Okay. Because, you know, that's what I like to do now. Okay. Looking back at it now, this kinda makes me have to sit back and think like, oh, I'm going to retire is what it's saying. But if I'm really going to retire, I just post, I'm going to retire, right?

[James Debo Harrison]

It could, you know, it could I.

[Joe Hayden]

Just say, you know what? I'm out of here.

[James Debo Harrison]

Somebody said something. It could be the chapter of Coach Tomlin, like, why?

[Joe Hayden]

This is what I'm saying. Why? Why I'm okay, you get your thank you post, you thank you posted to Tommy, or you just say that you're, you know, you're. You're done. This right here is one of those. Hey, now again, I gotta go back. I gotta go back. Especially looking at the fact that he just went through a contract dispute beginning of last year. Yeah, this is something that could possibly make it easier to get into a talk with the current and new regime or whatever it is. Like, hey, Cam, what you go do? We seen the. We've seen the cryptic message. You closing the book. Are you saying you're retiring? He's not saying. He's not saying he's returned. He's also not saying that he's not retiring. So they're like, yo, they gonna have to go to him now. I get you to come to me without me having to be put into the media. Have them, you know how the Steeler fans coming at him again, talking about, you make enough money, all this other stuff, you know, you see what I'm saying? So now it's going to be. Or it could be a situation where yo, he's do. What is it like you said, 13.

[James Debo Harrison]

Million by about 13 million by sometime March.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah, March 15th, 16th, something like that.

[James Debo Harrison]

A league year, right?

[Joe Hayden]

So I think the league year is what, 13, 15. Somewhere around there, whatever it may be. Okay, so instead of me coming to you, now it looks as if yo, they came to me. I really wanted to retire. I was contemplating it. But you know what? They made me an offer so good that I couldn't refuse or whatever it may be like. Like, for me, when I came back in 14, bro, I came back for a million dollars, bro. I didn't come back because I needed the money and all that other stuff. I came back because my brothers wanted me back. Like, it didn't matter anything about anything else. My brother's like, yo, bro, we need you. I'm like, man, I ain't coming back. I'm done. Keisel called me. I called, I called me, fresh out of surgery, bro. Troy called me. I'm like, you know what? If my kids say I could come back, I will come.

[James Debo Harrison]

I'll come back.

[Joe Hayden]

A million dollars did the same thing after that year because now I done built some bonds in there. I done fell back in love with the process, right?

[James Debo Harrison]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Hayden]

Again, maybe a million and a half. If it was that, for a two year deal. We went and lost in the AFC Championship game in 16. I signed again after that. Why? Because I don't want to leave on a loss. Don't nobody want to leave on a loss. I'm like, I'm back. I want to keep going again, a player deal, a million and a half. So I came back, dude. I'm came back for my brothers. Like real life, my brothers, it that. That's what it came down to. So I'm thinking, like I said, I'm playing a little devil's advocate. This may be an opportunity where I say, yo, I'm not saying I'm retiring. I'm not saying I'm not retiring, but let's go get you to come to me without me having to come to you, because you're going to have to come to me because I'm due a roster bonus. And once that roster bonus is guaranteed, now, you may have the option of being like, yo, I already got my money. I. I ain't playing. Or you give me. You give me some more, you, you know, he. He got the incentives set in there where it was like, you know, I think it was a million bucks for, you know, a million and a half for a playoff win. And. And, you know, eight or ten sacks or something. And then it was a half million for eight sacks or whatever it may be. But. But that's where I'm seeing it like, you know what I'm saying? It could be one way or it could be the other, but the message is not clear. But it leaves a lot open to interpretation.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yeah, I feel you. I just think that the Steelers right now, with that, if they're going to do A whole switch. Like you said, Mike McCarthy. I don't think he don't. And I hate to say they don't owe Cam nothing. So I'm just looking at it from this perspective of. Cam is 35 years old.

[Joe Hayden]

Notice 37, bro.

[James Debo Harrison]

37 years old. Got 30 with nothing. I'm trying. Look. Look at me. I'm trying to give my man some. Trying to give him some back. So they get. Man running my man money up. So when it came, 37 years old at 14 and a half million with one more year left there, and, well.

[Joe Hayden]

Like I said, we're going off of what a beat writer said. But when you add it together with the cryptic message, we gotta believe.

[James Debo Harrison]

Oh, for sure.

[Joe Hayden]

Where the smoke is fire. You know what I'm saying? Because if it's a. I'm thinking about it, contemplating it. It's. Yo, I'm gonna go into the off season, I'm gonna have. I'm gonna sit back, I'm gonna think about it instead of, boom. You see what I'm saying?

[James Debo Harrison]

Yeah. Cause it's two. Because it's two different situations, though, Cam. It's like. I mean. I mean, Debo. Does he want to retire? Is one thing. There's another thing is, do you want to get an extension? Or is it. Do you want more money? Like, do you want. Is it not playing for 14 million isn't good enough? Or is it. Do you not. Do you not know if we want to play at all? Or do you not want to play for 14? Do you know what I'm saying? Like, which one? I would want to ask Cam that because that would kind of switch up the situation. I'm like, if you don't want to play and you don't want to retire, then that's that, man. That's. You got all the power in the world. You could do whatever you want to do. If you do want to play, it's.

[Joe Hayden]

But I just don't want to play for what's left.

[James Debo Harrison]

That's what I'm saying.

[Joe Hayden]

But I can't go through that again. I'm sitting back if I'm him. I can't go through that. That situation again where they was all on my neck. Because I'm talking about, I can't feed my family on 13 or 12, whatever it was. Like, they go Be. They go really be on there again. Two in a row.

[James Debo Harrison]

But he. He. But look, if he don't. Cam don't have to say nothing.

[Joe Hayden]

He can just continue. They got to come to him.

[James Debo Harrison]

And even and even.

[Joe Hayden]

No, no.

[James Debo Harrison]

And even. And even if they don't, then. Even if they don't come to him, that cryptic message, that ain't going to do nothing. He's still under contract. He's still playing with them.

[Joe Hayden]

It don't matter. I gave you a cryptic message that no get me on contract, and you gave me that money. No roster, bonus, deadline, right? I never said that I was going to retire. Not retire. I showed you that. I was thinking about it. And now we get to the point to where you just gave me the guarantee at March 15th, 17th. Now I'm saying. Yo, that's why I said I was thinking about it. I need more. So what you go do? Let him sit there and not play and get paid or you go negotiate with him? You gotta go to him now. It's no other way to do it.

[James Debo Harrison]

Oh, man, that's.

[Joe Hayden]

You see what I'm saying? I'm playing owner. I gotta go see what you go do. I can't just sit back and be like, I hope he play and then give him the guaranteed money. That's at March 16th.

[James Debo Harrison]

That's what I'm saying. They gotta go talk. So you. Yeah, yeah, they gotta go talk to him before. Look, but look. No, no.

[Joe Hayden]

If you don't own a joke, what you gonna do?

[James Debo Harrison]

But this is what I'm saying. This is what I'm saying. If they go pay cam that 12.9 million right now, and you really think he wouldn't go? Like, if he would go talk to them before? If he goes and signs that, you think he wouldn't go play for the Steelers after he signed the contract he's already signed?

[Joe Hayden]

It's not about him signing anything. He signed through the. Through the end of this year.

[James Debo Harrison]

I'm saying once he get the 12.9, once 3-2-pass and they give him 12. Nine, you think he still wouldn't play?

[Joe Hayden]

He was gonna sit out last time until they renegotiated. What are you talking about? He didn't even practice. I didn't say I was gonna come. I didn't say I was gonna leave.

[James Debo Harrison]

Oh, yeah, they gotta go holla at Cam then to figure out you're the owner.

[Joe Hayden]

What are you talking about, Joe? What are you gonna do as the owner? You're Mike McCarthy. What are you gonna do?

[James Debo Harrison]

Is he just gonna. I'm just. Cam is gonna sign. Just stay there and be able. He would play. Not. Not play.

[Joe Hayden]

I said, what are you going to do? I'm. Cam, you coming to me? Are you not gonna come to me, you just go say, all right, we got him under contract. We do. To give him this money. He just put a message out there talking about book clothes. We don't know what the hell is going on with that, but we're going to give you this guarantee that is guaranteed. And if I say, yo, I ain't gonna play for that.

[James Debo Harrison]

Okay, no, this is my other question. Is it true? Do we know? Is it true that Cam went to them and said that he wanted an extension?

[Joe Hayden]

No, we're saying what a beat writer said, and I'm putting together a cryptic message. Okay, with what a beat writer came out with. Three, four days later. What are you thinking as an owner? I'm in. The owners, definitely.

[James Debo Harrison]

If I'm the owner. You're right.

[Joe Hayden]

You're right.

[James Debo Harrison]

If I'm the owner, I gotta go see where you got. I gotta go talk to him. I gotta go see where his head's at. Exactly. We gotta go figure out where his head is at. You have to.

[Joe Hayden]

It's no other way. Especially if I'm the head coach.

[James Debo Harrison]

You have to, you have to, you have to. I gotta see, I gotta see. Be like, yo, Ken, what's that mean? Like, are you still good at 14?

[Joe Hayden]

Good.

[James Debo Harrison]

The 1 1.

[Joe Hayden]

Like, dude, if I. If I'm. If I'm. If I'm. If I'm the GM and I'm Omar, I'm caught. Well, what's going on, brother? Yeah, yeah, I seen the message. What's. Like, I'm.

[James Debo Harrison]

I'm.

[Joe Hayden]

I ain't even gonna waste no time. Like, who do we got? You know, you got. You got. The situation with. What is it? Highsman.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yes.

[Joe Hayden]

What are you doing there? They're saying there's a possibility that he could be traded.

[James Debo Harrison]

I mean, look, like support for the.

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[James Debo Harrison]

So when you look at the outside, that Alex Highsmith is a baller. And that's the worst part. When you start getting amazing players that played great and then you have to give them these deals. You have TJ there, you have Alex Highsmith.

[Joe Hayden]

TJ ain't going nowhere, bro.

[James Debo Harrison]

No, no, no, listen, I'm just naming the people that are at the same position and we got Herbic and then you just drafted my man from Ohio State. These Are young dudes like Herbic are we going to. Right now he's on the, he's going into the last year of his contract. One year 3.7. So it's like, we know TJ's not going nowhere. That's 40 balls. That's going to hit us for the next two years minimum for sure. But he's a baller. He's going, we need TJ. Then you got Alex at 15. It's like, okay, we're good. And then we got cam at 14. Then we got Herbic. Now we're trying to figure out what deal. I think the earlier trying to get Herbic is going to be this. When you start talking like an owner, you're going to offer him something that's not where he can get, maximizing the market, but something that's like, man, we going to get you some money in your pocket. Now on herbicide. Is that good enough? Is 12 million a year? 14, 15 or you can go somewhere in free agents.

[Joe Hayden]

They can't, they can't give him 12. We're on the, we're on the, we're on the books for, for TJ. Like you said, for, for 40. We're on the books this year. Coming up on, on, on, on alex for almost 18, bro. And you go give him 12.

[James Debo Harrison]

No, that's what, that's what I said. If you can't do, if you're not gonna give Herbic sweat, if you're not going to sign Herbie, we're going to have to let him play on this one year deal and then after the season, see if we can resign them. Because it's you, you, you're, you got your young dudes coming in. It's, it's good problems to have, but it's real problems to have. It's like, what are you going to do? Hasmith? They. You start looking older, getting hurt sometimes with somebody else. Can you trade for them? Not in a bad way, because you do. Like you said, he's a baller.

[Joe Hayden]

They got, they got, they, they, you know, they, they can, they, they could trade. I think if, if they trading, it's like eight, eight, almost nine million dollar savings. And then on that now you can go and maybe offer Herbic something. You've seen him play, you've seen him come in and do extremely well, you know what I'm saying?

[James Debo Harrison]

Who gotta get paid.

[Joe Hayden]

I give him, like you said before, this year happens before next year gets here. Next year he's unrestricted free agent.

[James Debo Harrison]

That's what I'm saying he's sliding.

[Joe Hayden]

I'm going ahead and put a. Put a bird in his hand versus Woody. Looking out out there in the bush now you got to take a chance on yourself, but you also taking a chance on your health. So am I gonna say, okay, I'll stay here and I'll. I'll do it for. For this amount. Like, even when I. I signed my first time, dude, I was a exclusive rights free agent. I signed the deal that was like a four year, five million. It was like the biggest deal for exclusive rights. Non starter at that time. Oh man, I was in the money. Right. Came the next year. Cool. Blah blah, blah. The year after that, they ended up releasing Joy and I ended up being the starter. And I became the lowest paid Pro bowl at the period.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yeah.

[Joe Hayden]

Like, ooh. Now I'm sitting there like, ah, man.

[James Debo Harrison]

That'S how I gotta get.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

[James Debo Harrison]

It's my time. It's your. It's your turn. That's why I never feel bad for the young dudes. Your first deal, if you never. You gotta go hit, you gotta crank, you gotta make sure you get your dough. So I'm looking at Tulo Queen. That's gonna be some money maybe that we gonna be able to. To get off the Bucs. Cause they on the third year, third day of the league year, they owe him two and a half. And then they could.

[Joe Hayden]

That two and a half ain't. Ain't we got. We got.

[James Debo Harrison]

No, no, you owe him two and a half. His base salary is 10.8. He's making 13.3 total. So that's what I'm saying. The two and a half is just like. If we don't give you this, then we're making sure like then you know, you're not getting the 10.8 base. So the two and a half is just boom. If you get this roster bonus, then that means you're on the roster to get your base salary at 10.8. If we don't give you that roster bonus, that means we're basically saving that whole 13.3. So I think Queen is one that might. Might go and then. Cause Joey Porter Jr.

[Joe Hayden]

Right. That's what I'm saying. You gotta look at who you gotta get paid.

[James Debo Harrison]

He got it that. I'm saying he's the, he's the main. He's the one that. That has to get paid for show.

[Joe Hayden]

And then like you said with the dude, I'm a. If I'm the owner, I'm gonna Have to throw something at Herbert, something that I'm hoping he ain't gonna be able to refuse, but you're not gonna be able to give him what it is that he's going to be able to get in the open market.

[James Debo Harrison]

And it's a thousand percent, but neither. But, but that's, but that's one thing that the Steelers do have. They never really always been the highest, highest paid. They weren't gonna go give you the highest paid money, but they was going to give you some good money. So hopefully it's like, all right, we can go get you a nice signing bonus. You, you like it here. We like you here in just that. You know what I'm saying? That, that, that good contract. So he, I don't think he'll take it, but that still hasn't been able to keep some of their players by, you know, they, they, they. Most of the time you play out your contract. When you do sign a deal there, it's that, that's the one thing I knew about the Steelers. It was like you gonna, they, they, they play out the contracts, most of them. When you sign a good deal, I.

[Joe Hayden]

Mean, for the most part, yeah, but I mean, a lot of the contracts end up being back in heavy like that last. That last year. Usually in, you know, that big money gear that you make, that money is real back in heavy to where you either going to renegotiate or you're going to be released. And that's.

[James Debo Harrison]

I can only speak on my deals that I did with them. It was more front end.

[Joe Hayden]

And then if you plan well, your deals weren't like, like your Cleveland deals, you know what I'm saying? They ain't give you that bad bag, you know what I'm saying? Like, I gave you a bag, but they ain't give you that back bag like they gave TJ that back bag. Look how bad. Look how back in heavy the last year TJ's contract is.

[James Debo Harrison]

He got.

[Joe Hayden]

I think. Yeah, it's standing there like 55 million, ain't it?

[James Debo Harrison]

I gotta check something.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah, something wild. Like the last year, like, but it was b.

[James Debo Harrison]

But I think TJ's deal was the first. They got him three years. It's the 108 is the, the thing. They gave him 108 guaranteed. So it's three full 108. So we still got two more years on that.

[Joe Hayden]

On the back end of. Yeah, well, it just depends on how they set up the there. What's the name? The. I ain't too. I ain't too familiar with that one, to be honest.

[James Debo Harrison]

I'm trying to tell you, Debo, I.

[Joe Hayden]

Know they can't let that man go no matter.

[James Debo Harrison]

No, they can't let him go nowhere. And they wouldn't no matter what.

[Joe Hayden]

And then you gotta look, like you said, Lil Peezy, he got to get paid. Little people gotta get paid. They got to do something. You still got. You still got Ramsey. Ramsey can't go nowhere. He could do both. Yeah, you know, it's a lot of.

[James Debo Harrison]

What about them? Fire Move. Fire Move. They might let go. Fire Move too, because they got the young type. That's the. When you draft young at your position and they're not making no dough, Washington making peanuts and you got fire move making 12. It's just like when you got the young dudes and you can go get other stuff. I mean, it sucks because when you're good players, it's like, obviously like, that's why you play in the league. Fire Move proved itself and that's why he was able to get a contract. But then when they bring in these younger dudes that are actually pretty good also, they're going to get into the same rhythm of. Washington's going to have to go get a deal. And you can go to established teams, teams that only need a tight end. I need this and that. We can do better. They can come and take Fire Move for that too.

[Joe Hayden]

I don't know, man. I think if Fire Move was used more effectively, it will work.

[James Debo Harrison]

It will work.

[Joe Hayden]

He will work. But I don't.

[James Debo Harrison]

I'm just trying to say if you're trying to bust the whole thing, if we trying to start off fresh and.

[Joe Hayden]

No, I ain't trying to start off fresh. I'm trying to keep the pieces I need to keep and then. And, and not. And not lose the pieces. I, I can't afford to not lose. Like, you still got to build towards the future.

[James Debo Harrison]

No, for sure.

[Joe Hayden]

You know what I'm saying? Like, look at Gainwell. What was it? He signed a year deal, right, Last year.

[James Debo Harrison]

Bring him back.

[Joe Hayden]

Okay, so bring him back. How are you going to bring him back?

[James Debo Harrison]

John Smith.

[Joe Hayden]

That's what he did. And what, he's free. Free right now, right? Yeah, he's free.

[James Debo Harrison]

Well, look, look, this one said he.

[Joe Hayden]

Ain'T gonna get more than what we go offer him and he's free. Free dude. He ain't got to sit and wait and be like a bird in the.

[James Debo Harrison]

Bush versus no, we could go. Yes. Okay. We might not be able to keep him, but I Would like to try to retain them.

[Joe Hayden]

We. Look, yes, you can try. Yes.

[James Debo Harrison]

I'm just. I'm saying, like, I'm. I'm John New Smith.

[Joe Hayden]

But think about this man. You go and you try to retain him, you give him a price that he already got out there that's somewhere way bigger than that, that would be considered and taken as disrespectful.

[James Debo Harrison]

Say that again.

[Joe Hayden]

I said that may be considered and taken as disrespectful. If it's disrespectful, slap in your face that they offer you, you know, 2 million and somebody already got something on the table for you for four and a half, five.

[James Debo Harrison]

This is what I'm telling you. This. I'm gonna tell you. You can't. Look, you gonna have to feel disrespected then, gang. Well. Because that's all we got for you. So, I mean, if you're gonna go somewhere else for sure and just. Honestly, I'm not mad. You gotta get your.

[Joe Hayden]

I'm not making no decisions till I see what the highest offer is on the table.

[James Debo Harrison]

You freeze the bird so that you can go over there. And then you mess around, go somewhere and go get your bag and it'd be terrible. Or is it just.

[Joe Hayden]

How much worse can it be here? I mean, then he already done.

[James Debo Harrison]

He was getting off. He was getting off.

[Joe Hayden]

Getting off. But if he get the bag, go somewhere.

[James Debo Harrison]

I mean, this is what I'm saying. Go somewhere. Tell me that's even worse.

[Joe Hayden]

You never won a Super bowl, right?

[James Debo Harrison]

No.

[Joe Hayden]

You never won a Super Bowl?

[James Debo Harrison]

No.

[Joe Hayden]

And you made plenty of money?

[James Debo Harrison]

Yes.

[Joe Hayden]

Would you give up 50 of what you made for once?

[James Debo Harrison]

Hell, no.

[Joe Hayden]

Exactly.

[James Debo Harrison]

No, Joe. Not even.

[Joe Hayden]

Joe, listen, listen. For me, I would give up 50 of what I made for one super bowl because I know the feeling of winning one and losing one.

[James Debo Harrison]

Oh, I know the feeling of being able to provide for my family and that ring and that stove. But if I could have done it on my way to do. It was meant for me. Is meant for me. And it looked like God was meant for me to get this stuff and maybe not a ring.

[Joe Hayden]

So.

[James Debo Harrison]

I mean, it is. It is what it is. I meant what. They had a guy, Rose. So if it was meant for me, it was meant for me.

[Joe Hayden]

Let me. Let me. Let me ask.

[James Debo Harrison]

I am where my feet are right now for.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah, let me ask you another one. Okay. Now, I'm gonna give you numbers, though.

[James Debo Harrison]

Okay.

[Joe Hayden]

Okay. This gonna be the difference. All right. You get 50. Let's make it 100. You make 100 million, but you never win the Super Bowl. Or, sorry, you make a hundred million and you win a Super bowl, but you make 250 million, but you never win one. Which one you taking? Wow. See, I know money is what's leading. You see, for me, I'm taking the super bowl because the goal of the game for me was to win Lombardi's. That was my goal. That was it.

[James Debo Harrison]

If I could go.

[Joe Hayden]

Because I came into the game not even thinking about the money. I came into the game like, yo, I get an opportunity to actually play the game and get paid. I'm like, they actually do that. I can play a football game that I love to play since I was a kid. And they go, give me money to do it.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yeah. I said, whoa, that shit happened. That shit happened to me all the way until I was probably like, into the league. Until my. I felt that same feeling. Well, you played for six years until I got into the league. Until I got into the league. Until I started seeing how it is a business, you know what I'm saying? Like, that game that we loved and the reason why we did it and we played so hard, I had that kid Joy with me all the way until I got into the league and was really.

[Joe Hayden]

So when you say you got into the league, my thing is, when you got into the league, it don't matter how you got. You can't pick where you go.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yeah.

[Joe Hayden]

So obviously it was after you got into the league and you were looking at that second deal and you had been sitting over there in Cleveland with a horrible, horrible organization that don't know how to do anything right and don't have the right focus on what the goal is, and that's the championship. See, I came in and I got to sit over here in Pittsburgh. I got to see what it was about. I got to walk past four, five trophies, you know what I'm saying? I got to walk past four trophies every time I got there. And then I got to sit there and be a part of putting a fifth trophy in there, you know what I'm saying? As a special teams player. And then I got. I got blessed to be able to be in there and bring one in there as a full time starter, the sixth trophy as a full, committed starting player and a special teams player. So I think that may be a part of that culture over there in Cleveland that just deluded your vision of.

[James Debo Harrison]

What the goal was. Okay, let me tell you this. Let me tell you this. I could respect that. But when you go and you play like you said, you go see all the Lombardi's, you can control what you can control. Like you said, I really do think being drafted to certain teams and being in certain environments like that really can mold you to be like this. Nah, this shit fucked up. You know what I'm saying? Like, they not trying to win over here. Like, I would lose when I was in there trying to go hard as a mug. I'm like, and we would lose the game. I'm crying in the locker room. I'm crying. And you see niggas not in there. They not crying. They like this, man, we grown man. This is our job. And then we walk out. I'm like, this. That would. That could really scar you. Cause like, at the day, I'm like, man, I'm trying my hardest. You just want to do your best. But then you start really realizing, like when you said too low and that's not a bad thing, I still balled out and I still did it because that's what I love. But I understood, like, GMs, coaches, niggas out here, they fighting for theyself. They got it. They protecting themselves. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to ball the hell out. But the super bowl, these niggas don't want it like that. So I'm going to make sure I can protect myself, make sure everything's locked in. I'm doing my job. You know what I'm saying? So money going to come, I'm going to get signed, I'm going to do my deals. But that's when I was like, if I would have got drafted to Pittsburgh. I really think me crying after the games and really being feeling, oh, I'm all the way. Best niggas been crying with me. Like, man, yeah, for sure. Like, no, this is what we do. We're here to win. You care. You really care. You know what I'm saying? So I could say that. So I'm not like knocking it, but I'm like, my. I love the game, but it really could show you, like, you're in this. It's a business. It is a business. So when I started getting cut, I thought I was going to be in. I thought I was going to be playing for the Browns forever. Chop me, trying to get me to take a pay cut. I'm like, me take a pay cut here after all I've done in this city, you're tripping. Get me out of here. So now I'm trying to go somewhere and go win a ship. That's why I went to Pittsburgh, because I'm like, oh yeah, I see them trying to win some ships over here, trying to get it done. So a thousand percent, I'm on that with you, Debo. I feel you. But I'm like, yeah, that's why I get that 250. And still, that's why I know, because they don't care. I got that 250 if I was in Cleveland and I go, buy me a ring.

[Joe Hayden]

Goodbye. I see you buy a lot of rings and chains and all that. Yeah, I see that. Yes, sir. Yes sir.

[James Debo Harrison]

They don't piss me off.

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[Joe Hayden]

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[Joe Hayden]

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[James Debo Harrison]

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[Tara Davis Woodhull]

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