Deebo & Joe - TNF REACTION: Kirk Cousins RESURGENCE in Falcons win vs. Bucs + TJ Watt injury update

Summary

Club Shay Shay: Deebo & Joe – TNF Reaction: Kirk Cousins’ Resurgence, Falcons vs. Bucs, and TJ Watt Injury Update

Episode Date: December 12, 2025
Host: James “Deebo” Harrison & Joe Hayden

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Main Theme

This episode of the Club Shay Shay spinoff “Deebo and Joe” centers on a detailed recap and analysis of Thursday Night Football: Atlanta Falcons’ comeback win against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. The hosts, former NFL players James "Deebo" Harrison and Joe Hayden, break down the wild, penalty-filled game, focus on Kirk Cousins’ standout performance for Atlanta, and highlight the defensive issues plaguing Tampa Bay. Later, the hosts share concern and insider analysis regarding TJ Watt’s reported lung injury during a treatment session, muse on the Pittsburgh Steelers’ long “non-losing seasons” streak, discuss coaching culture, and touch on Shador Sanders’ quarterback performance and the broader NFL landscape.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

I. Falcons vs. Bucs: Game Recap & Analysis

[02:19] – [19:53]

• Game Flow & Key Plays:

  • Both teams started erratically, with multiple penalties and missed opportunities.
  • Early on, Deebo highlights the Bucs’ struggles: “Bucs lost to the Falcons, man. This the sixth loss they done had in the last eight games, dude” (02:19).
  • Heavy penalty flags throughout: “It was so many penalties. I started losing track.” – Joe Hayden (06:30).
  • Tampa Bay offense showed flashes, especially via Baker Mayfield–Evans connections, but often stalled by sacks, mistakes, and more penalties.
  • Atlanta sustained key drives despite 19 total penalties, led by Bijan Robinson and a resurgent Kirk Cousins.

• Cousins & Pitts: Air Show

  • Kirk Cousins found tight end Kyle Pitts repeatedly: “Cousins hit Pitts. That dude went crazy.” – Deebo (03:40).
  • Pitts scored three TDs; two were called “wide open” due to blown coverages: “Kyle Pitts, what are we doing in the zones? Grab that man.” – Joe (25:30).
  • The final Falcons drive featured a gutsy 4th-and-14 conversion to Pitts that broke Tampa’s back.

• Notable Sequence – Fourth Quarter Comeback

  • Falcons, trailing by 14, mount a penalty-free, efficient TD drive:
    • “Atlanta comes to life. Eight plays, 65 yards, touchdown. No penalties now. March it down smoothly.” – Deebo & Joe (13:21).
  • Hillarity over repeated two-point conversion attempts — both hosts disagree with aggressive play-calling:
    • “I ain’t going for two right there.” – Deebo (14:08)
    • “Give yourself a chance…Just give yourself seven.” – Joe (14:15)

• Defensive Blunders & Luck

  • Multiple fumble recoveries and muffed punts went the recovering team’s way—“lucky bounces.”
  • Final critical play: allowing a 4th-and-long conversion to the same guy who’d been torching them all night.
    • “How do you let them get 21, brother?” – Deebo (18:05)

• Summary Stats:

  • “The defense gave up almost 500 yards, 476 yards. And…Atlanta had 19 penalties. Dude, you got beat with a team that had 19 penalties.” – Deebo (19:53)

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II. Post-Game: Tough Coaching & Accountability

[23:14] – [26:04]

• Locker Room Fallout
  • Deebo and Joe react to the Bucs coach’s post-game language:
    • “He was talking to them like he was in a locker room.” – Deebo (23:52)
    • “He kept cussing so much. I was like, is he just doing this on purpose?” – Joe (23:58)
  • Main criticism is that even with everything that went wrong, Tampa Bay “still could have walked out of this stadium with a win.” – Deebo (24:28)
  • Coverage critique: “That’s the spot. Back up. Make sure that we can rally down to everything. I’m high. I’m high. You not throwing this.” – Joe on the failed 4th down stop (25:28)

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III. TJ Watt Injury Breakdown

[26:04] – [31:34]

• Initial Reports:
  • TJ Watt hospitalized for a lung issue “after a treatment session at the Steelers facility.”
  • Joe and Deebo speculate that the injury stemmed from a procedure such as dry needling, not from on-field contact.
    • “Dry needling is something that can actually puncture the lungs…” – Joe (27:23)
    • “Just because you licensed don’t mean you know what the hell you’re doing…I’m not letting anybody, just anybody dry needle me.” – Deebo (29:16)
  • Warnings about insufficiently trained staff and complexities of treating pro athletes.
  • TJ Watt remains hospitalized and the severity seen as “not a small thing.” – Deebo (30:53)

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IV. Steelers’ Culture: Non-Losing Seasons & What Really Matters

[31:34] – [43:50]

• The Long Streak:
  • Deebo runs through 20 years of Steelers defense, coaching changes, and cultural standards.
    • “It’s great to not have a losing season, but that’s not the Steelers organization. The goal…is to win championships.” – Deebo (39:08)
  • Detailed commentary on why “not losing” has supplanted “winning championships” as the real organizational standard—shifting expectations over time.
  • Deebo and Joe both praise Tomlin, noting he’d be hired “immediately” if let go, but ponder whether Pittsburgh needs a new voice (41:45).

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V. Shador Sanders’ Rookie Play & Forecast

[43:50] – [48:47]

• Recognition:
  • “Your boy Shador…got rookie of the week after the game, bro. First rookie quarterback to receive that honor.” – Deebo (43:50)
  • Joe expects a steady, controlled game from Sanders against Chicago, given harsh weather.
    • “Just do what you’ve been doing, Shador. Don’t do those spin outs.” – Joe (48:04)
  • Joe’s stat projection: “20 for 30, for 225 yards, two touchdowns, zero ints.” (48:07)

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VI. Joe Burrow’s “Sad” Vibe & Franchise Future

[48:47] – [55:10]

• Burrow’s Press Conference:
  • “If I want to keep doing this…I have to have fun doing it. If it’s not fun, what am I doing it for?” – Joe Burrow via Deebo (48:47)
  • Joe and Deebo interpret Burrow’s comments as signaling major unhappiness—possibly seeking change due to poor offensive line protection and losing woes.
    • “That man sound big sad. Debo.” – Joe (50:00)
    • “Winning is fun. You know, five years, $275 [million], you were in Cleveland. You weren’t having that much fun.” – Deebo (50:26)
  • Both agree that the franchise’s inability to protect its star QB is a major risk for player morale and competitiveness.
    • “Joe Burrow…he got fire receivers. He doesn’t have a line.” – Joe (52:26)

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VII. Side Storylines & Fun Moments

[55:49] – [61:18]

• Reporter Removed from Titans Team Plane

  • Reporter was removed for sharing “intel” from Cam Ward off the team charter after a win—hosts laugh about the risk of letting media on flights, and discuss boundaries around team privacy (55:49).

• Prize Picks Segment – “Play or Fade”

  • Joe and Deebo pick player props for the week and riff on their lineups (58:08).
  • End the segment singing, riffing, and discussing hypothetical “perfect” stat lines for Shador.

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VIII. Listener Interaction & Community

[64:44] – [66:36]

• Shoutout to Super Chat Donor
  • Live fan shout-out with a listener message from St. Lucia, thanks and well-wishes to fans.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Bucs lost to the Falcons, man. This the sixth loss they done had in the last eight games, dude.” – Deebo (02:19)
• “It was so many penalties. I started losing track.” – Joe (06:30)
• “Kyle Pitts, what are we doing in the zones? Grab that man.” – Joe (25:30)
• “How do you let them get 21, brother?” – Deebo on the killer Falcons 4th down conversion (18:05)
• “Just because you licensed don’t mean you know what the hell you’re doing. I’m not letting anybody, just anybody, dry needle me.” – Deebo on the TJ Watt injury (29:16)
• “It’s great to not have a losing season, but that’s not the Steelers organization. The goal…is to win championships.” – Deebo (39:08)
• “That man sound big sad. Debo.” – Joe on Joe Burrow (50:00)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• [02:19] – Falcons-Bucs drive-by-drive breakdown begins
• [06:30] – Penalties dominate (flag tracker lost)
• [13:21] – Falcons' critical, penalty-free comeback drive
• [18:05] – The devastating 4th-and-14 allowed by Bucs
• [19:53] – Atlanta’s “ugly win” despite 19 penalties, almost 500 yards allowed
• [23:14] – Coach postgame reaction (“locker room talk”)
• [26:04] – TJ Watt treatment/lung injury speculation
• [31:34] – Steelers’ “no losing season” legacy, defense history
• [43:50] – Shador Sanders gets rookie honors; preview vs. Bears
• [48:47] – Joe Burrow’s mood and future in Cincinnati
• [55:49] – Titans sideline reporter incident
• [58:08] – Play or Fade: prop bets, jokes, and laughter
• [64:44] – Super chat: fan shoutout & wrap-up

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Tone and Language

Casual, highly conversational, insider-heavy – typical for two ex-players riffing about the NFL. The banter is honest, bordering on blunt, but always playful and peppered with real experience. They call out coaching decisions (“coaches, stop!”), lament bad defense (“that’s not good ball”), and relish reliving big plays (“he got 21 on that one…shaking him”). Jokes and music break up the analysis (impromptu “I Believe I Can Fly” performance [60:45]), making for an engaging, “locker room” feel.

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In sum: A game-heavy episode with deep X’s and O’s, sharp critique of coaches and players, medical insights, and fan-friendly energy. Great for listeners wanting a real football breakdown with off-the-field perspective and authentic player commentary.

Transcript

[Joe Hayden]

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[James Debo Harrison]

All.

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[James Debo Harrison]

Mmm.

[Coca Cola Advertiser]

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[Joe Hayden]

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[James Debo Harrison]

IBM. Welcome back to another episode of Debo and Joe. I'm your host, James Debo Harrison and I'm here with my co host Joe Hayden. Please make sure you guys like and subscribe. You don't want to miss nothing. How you doing today, Joe, bro?

[Joe Hayden]

I'm doing great, Debo. Great, brother. Had a game to watch last night. Thought it was over. Wasn't over. Thought I could fall asleep. So, yeah, we got a good one on this. On a good one.

[James Debo Harrison]

Definitely. Yeah, it was. It was definitely a good game, man. The Bucks lost to the Falcons, man. This the sixth loss they done had in the last eight games, dude. Including the last two back to back losses to division opponents in New Orleans and Atlanta. And now the Panthers are in first place, dude. In the south in the nfc, brother. Let's jump on into this thing.

[Joe Hayden]

Yes, sir.

[James Debo Harrison]

Wet and rain and get it cracking, baby. Bucks get out there, dude. Irving was back. He comes out on the first play. He strikes out on him for 11, dude. The next play, Baker is Pressured, he dumps it to Irving. Irving again. He picks another lane, baby. The next play, Baker's pass is blocked. And then I think they stopped Irving for second down. No gang. And the third down, I think it was incomplete. Like he just dropped that thing into no man's land right there. They end up punting it and it gets down. I think it was down at the one, but they said it was touched.

[Joe Hayden]

So they ended up at the 6 or something like that.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yeah, they ended up pulling it out at the. At the six. I didn't see it get touched. I ain't gonna lie.

[Joe Hayden]

I didn't either.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yeah, I'm still. I was still looking for it. I didn't see it get touched, man. And then after a one yard run on first down, Bijan picks up 10 on that second down. Yeah, he was doing things all night.

[Joe Hayden]

He was hooping.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yes. Now listen, the next play, Cousins hit Pitts. That dude went crazy.

[Joe Hayden]

Yes, he did. That's a baby Gator. He went to four.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yes, sir. Yeah, for sure. For sure, Dude. And then it was back to back plays. I think Robinson went for four on a run and then he dumped him. One, he took for nine, third and two, they ended up getting a false start. And then after that, they get back, Dude. They was getting penalties left and right. That stalled them out. They end up having to punt the ball back to the Bucs. Bucs get out there. I think on that second down, Irving hit a nice little one for seven. Then he gets sacked. But your boy 24 out there, he.

[Joe Hayden]

Had a long day, man. My good man, Terrell, I love his game, but it was a lot of holding him, man. It was a physical play. Mike Evans was holding him by the back of the shoulder pads a couple of times. So he was out there fighting for his life.

[James Debo Harrison]

Tebow before his life. The next play, I think it was white. He took 120. And then the second down, nine, Baker hit Evans for like 12. That next second, Baker gets sacked. Right. It's third and 15, dude. 23 dog. And it was a penalty. Yes. Yeah, dude, it was. It was your boy again. Having. Having a rough day.

[Joe Hayden]

A long day, bro. With a lot of holding going on. A lot of.

[James Debo Harrison]

For sure. I think the. I think the next play, that's when he hit McMillan for what? 19 to the 1. They thought it was a touchdown.

[Joe Hayden]

Thought it was a touchdown. He got smacked.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yeah, he got.

[Joe Hayden]

I'm glad he didn't do nothing stupid. Reach the ball out. He just made sure he didn't fumble. Yes. Respect Trying to do something dumb. He could have lost it.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yo, you see Ve on that lead block on that second down, though.

[Joe Hayden]

Oh, my goodness.

[James Debo Harrison]

Oh, my Lord. Oh, my Lord. They scored. Dude, it's seven. It's seven nothing. The first play. Cousins get out there. Who he hit? Who he hit?

[Joe Hayden]

Al Pitts, the baby gator. Man to man, these dudes are loose on them, bruh.

[James Debo Harrison]

Pitts getting loose on them. I don't know. Like, it was a couple times they just made. Like they wasn't gonna even, you know, follow or do nothing with this, man.

[Joe Hayden]

He was following those.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yeah, they getting a holding on the next play with kicks it to first and 20. The boy, Bijan, picks up eight. And then the next play, he get another seven and third down. Cause it hit steals for 10. They pick up the first down, and then they follow that up with a false start, but that ends up being a holding by the defense after that for the first down. Dude, it was so many penalties.

[Joe Hayden]

It was so many penalties. I started losing track. Like, I'm trying to keep track. And then they had the field goal, and then they had offsides.

[James Debo Harrison]

Right?

[Joe Hayden]

So then they got to be able to get back out there onto the field.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yeah. So they get back out there, they end up getting a touchdown off of that.

[Joe Hayden]

Yes.

[James Debo Harrison]

I think it was Pitts, right? That was pissed again.

[Joe Hayden]

Yep.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yep.

[Joe Hayden]

Miscommunication is wide open.

[James Debo Harrison]

Bucks get back out there. I think that second down, Baker is sacked, but it's a holding first down.

[Joe Hayden]

Yes.

[James Debo Harrison]

They end up having to. They end up being able to hold him, though. So they punt the ball. They force him to punt. Atlanta gets out there, first down, Bijan, he go for a hot 30, brother. What happened, though?

[Joe Hayden]

They are beholden. I'm gonna get a hold. All of this. It's a lot of good stuff. A lot of good stuff.

[James Debo Harrison]

And then after that, it's a false start.

[Joe Hayden]

Yes. Verse 16.

[James Debo Harrison]

Verse 16. Bijan picks up 13, though. Like, I think it's what. It's second and whatever it is. And I believe they ended up getting to. What was it?

[Joe Hayden]

Man, they got the sum. We made it third and 15. Cause they got another OT. Debo.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yeah, it was a false start on third 10. That.

[Joe Hayden]

That. Yeah, bro. It started getting some bad ball. I'm trying to keep my notes. I'm like, how many? Okay, flag, flag, flag. Y' all punt it. Y' all are just being bad ball.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yeah, they go ahead and punt that thing. Bucks, get back out there. I think it was third and six.

[Odoo Advertiser]

Yes.

[James Debo Harrison]

Baker hits Evans for 12 beautiful. Yes. Next play. Was it Ubuku?

[Joe Hayden]

Ubuku.

[James Debo Harrison]

Man. He breaks tackles and shakes them. Gets. Gets 12 on him. That's a first. And then McMillan again for. What was it? 1920.

[Joe Hayden]

Yes, sir.

[James Debo Harrison]

But somehow Atlanta holds him to a field goal. Don't know how, but they did it 10 to 7. Falcons come out and go four plays, 65 yards for a touchdown with a first down dunk pass to Robinson for nine. A quick run for three, followed by Cousins hitting pits for six. Rut, dude, that was the coldest outing up I ever seen. It looked like he adjusted that to just change the route in the middle of running it.

[Joe Hayden]

No, that was meant to be that way. That's what it looked like. Cause it was so good.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yeah. And then right after that, he gone ahead wide open for the touchdown, bro.

[Joe Hayden]

Second man through the zone. Linebacker looking crazy. We got a good post. Take out the COVID three corner. He just chilling, parlaying. Ah, wheel touchdown.

[James Debo Harrison]

14 to 10, they up. Now listen, Bucs, get the ball. I think it's only like 30 seconds.

[Joe Hayden]

33 seconds, Deebo.

[James Debo Harrison]

33 seconds.

[Joe Hayden]

33 seconds.

[James Debo Harrison]

Of course, with the help of Atlanta with a defensive face mask and something else, they go, what was it? 33 to Evans. Yep. And they able to kick a field goal.

[Joe Hayden]

DB falling down on the. Can I talk about the turf? What's up with the turf, dude?

[James Debo Harrison]

The grass. The grass is a little loose.

[Joe Hayden]

The only dude that had on good cleats was Robinson. Robinson was the only nigga with good cleats on. Cause he was cutting. He was cutting like it was perfect grass.

[James Debo Harrison]

He slipped one time, too, though.

[Joe Hayden]

He slipped one time, but he was cutting up a lot more than he was slipping.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yeah, they going to halftime 13:14. Atlanta started the third quarter with a 16 yard gain by that dude Bijan on a check down.

[Joe Hayden]

He must have came out of a locker room with fresh. Fresh cleats. Cause that's the one I'm talking about. He was chopping people all the way up.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yeah, but hey, they would stall out because, you know, false start on third down, holding. They punt the ball. You know what I'm saying? The Bucks. This is where the Bucks get the ball back and they get a holding penalty after he done kicked it out the back of the end zone. That kicks him back to the 10. And then they proceed to go nine plays, 90 yards, anchor hits or. What is it? Ubuka 23 laser. That thing in there. Dude laced it in there. That. That was. And then a bomb to Evans for 45, where he just went over the top of that, man.

[Joe Hayden]

Head, top. Watch your head, young bull. 50. 50 ball, my ass.

[James Debo Harrison]

No, not even close to it. Of course you gotta add that. You gotta add that illegal contact on that third and 13th incompletion. They gave him a first. Plus the tripping call, you know, double valve this second ago. Yeah. Second to go. Baker hits Coop for the touchdown. It's 14, 20 now.

[Joe Hayden]

Yes, sir.

[James Debo Harrison]

Atlanta come out. You know, I think they might have picked up like maybe two first downs. I think one was Bijan again, 21 shaking him. He got 21 on that one. And then Stills, he could have caught that pass for that touchdown right after that. And dropped in.

[Joe Hayden]

Dude dropped it.

[James Debo Harrison]

Dropped that thing.

[Joe Hayden]

That was just that.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Wow.

[Joe Hayden]

They don't. That was just. That was just terrible. You're a professional.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yes.

[Joe Hayden]

No, You're a professional, dude.

[James Debo Harrison]

After that, I think it was Mooney, he got. He got 13. That was their. That was their other first down. And the intentional grounding on second down just really. It killed everything. It killed it all. They punt the ball, but them boys over there and. And Tampa was trying to help him out. He gone ahead and muff that thing. Almost give him the ball back right there. He's able to recover it somehow. He got lucky. That's luck, dude. That's lucky bounces. Yeah, that's about skill, dude. No, that's lucky bounces, dude.

[Joe Hayden]

Could be a completely different game.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yes, could be a completely different game. It still got ugly anyway.

[Joe Hayden]

No, for sure.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yeah. I think the first down, Baker hit Evans again for about 20. Second down, Irving went for 16. And then Bakers get sacked on the next second down, they end up forcing them to punt the ball.

[Joe Hayden]

Yep.

[James Debo Harrison]

And then Falcons get back out there and second down that man Bijan fumbles the Rock. I think they like at the 20, 25, they end up recovering it.

[Joe Hayden]

Yep. 25 yard line, dude.

[James Debo Harrison]

First play Baker to Evans for 10. Need that second and 10 pass interference.

[Joe Hayden]

God damn.

[James Debo Harrison]

Next second down Godwin goes. Here he go ahead, hit God. When he gets him to touchdown. It's 14 to 28. Dude. I ain't gonna lie.

[Joe Hayden]

They went for the 2.2. Hit the two point.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yeah. Yep. This is where I'm thinking, yo, the game is. Is over with. And Atlanta comes to life. Eight plays, 65 yards. Touchdown. No penalties now.

[Joe Hayden]

Nope. March it down smoothly.

[James Debo Harrison]

No penalties like nice big two games of. What was it? 18 by pits and on the third and what was it, third and two, 20 by steals.

[Joe Hayden]

Is it Stills? There you go. Catching the ball.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yes.

[Joe Hayden]

Trying to get himself back.

[James Debo Harrison]

He could have caught that up.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah, yeah.

[James Debo Harrison]

He redeemed himself after that one, brother.

[Joe Hayden]

You got to catch everything.

[James Debo Harrison]

Everything he did.

[Joe Hayden]

Everything he did, though.

[James Debo Harrison]

Bijan scores on the six yard run for the touchdown. They go for the two point conversion.

[Joe Hayden]

Deebo, let me talk about. How do you feel about this? What you. You going for two.

[James Debo Harrison]

I ain't going for two. Right there.

[Joe Hayden]

I'm not going for two.

[James Debo Harrison]

Not right there.

[Joe Hayden]

Why does everybody keep going for two?

[James Debo Harrison]

I ain't going for two. Right there.

[Joe Hayden]

Give yourself a chance. Go for one. If you do, you gotta be able to give yourself the option to go for one or two, or you not even give yourself the chance to know that you gotta go score again. So just give yourself seven. And now when I go there, depending on how I'm feeling, I can kick the field goal.

[James Debo Harrison]

I can't do it.

[Joe Hayden]

Or I could go ahead, bang on you and go for two and win the joint.

[James Debo Harrison]

Right.

[Joe Hayden]

Just the first one is throwing me off. Stop doing that, please. Coaches, stop.

[James Debo Harrison]

Bucks, get back out there. They complete one first down and then second down. Baker helps them out.

[Joe Hayden]

Brother, that was a good. Don't drop.

[James Debo Harrison]

Hey, the boy, he climbed it for it, though.

[Joe Hayden]

That was a good zone dropping. He climbed the ladder right there, brother.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yes.

[Joe Hayden]

That's your curl flat. He got to get underneath that. Out.

[James Debo Harrison]

Mm. Right. Ain't nothing in front of you. And then if it is, it ain't nothing but cheese. Get back.

[Joe Hayden]

Come on.

[James Debo Harrison]

They trying to set you up. Get back.

[Joe Hayden]

He was coming out there, he had to jam a little number two. And then he kind of didn't really even hit him.

[James Debo Harrison]

For real.

[Joe Hayden]

Cause he knew he had to get on the number one and make the play. I respect it. Come on.

[James Debo Harrison]

Great play by Alpha Falcons. Get out there again. These boys go 10 plays, 67 yards for a touchdown. Bijan goes 14 on the very first down. Third and seven. Pits again. I think. What was dude's name, the other running back, he went for 15.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah, he did.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yeah, yeah. Second and 10, though. Mooney, he gets 16, but he fumbled it, brother.

[Joe Hayden]

This what I'm talking about, a good luck bounce. It was five of them right there. Hey, it was popping him. That lineman came in that joint.

[James Debo Harrison]

Full speed, Debo. Yes. I don't know how he came out with that.

[Joe Hayden]

I don't know either he wanted.

[James Debo Harrison]

I don't know how he came out with that. Second down. What'd they do? False start, third and go. Who they hit, man, who they hit?

[Joe Hayden]

Hits, brother for his third td of the game. Third td, and they call it one cheek equals two feet.

[James Debo Harrison]

Exactly. The cheek. Hey, the cheek. Cheek down, cheek down, feet down. Cheek down, feet down, baby. Help.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

What?

[James Debo Harrison]

They say they go for two again. Of course they had to. Then they miss it. I ain't gonna lie. I'm thinking, hey, I'm looking at them.

[Joe Hayden]

Like now, you idiots.

[James Debo Harrison]

You like, hey, maybe this is over with because it's only, what, by the time, what, 3, 30 left.

[Joe Hayden]

3 minutes and 30 seconds. Yes.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yeah. By the time the bus get the ball back, they convert. I think it was like one first down.

[Joe Hayden]

They got one first down.

[James Debo Harrison]

They started forcing them to use their timeouts. They run on the next first down, they lose four. And then you go and you throw an incompletion on second down.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah, they thought they was going to get that, brother. They thought they was going. They had them booku a little bit behind. They trying to finish. They trying to win the game. They trying to go and get this first down and not try to get a ball back. You should have ran it.

[James Debo Harrison]

He gets sacked, though, on third.

[Joe Hayden]

Like, come on. Yeah, he did. He did. He did. Second and complete third down, sack now.

[James Debo Harrison]

Atlantigan got the ball back. It's under two minutes left. 147 first play. They hit steals for 17. Cool. That ain't bad. Cousins get sacked, fumble the rock, and they recover that.

[Joe Hayden]

I don't know how again.

[James Debo Harrison]

Dude.

[Joe Hayden]

But you know what? They deserve that one. Cause the Bucks got that one when it was five people around, so somehow they finagled that one. So I'll give it a turnover for a turnover.

[James Debo Harrison]

They get a holding call. I think that kicked him to what, like third and damn near 30? Third and 28.

[Joe Hayden]

Third and 28, yeah.

[James Debo Harrison]

Cause Pitts picked up half of that on the third down. Fourth and 14. What? How do you let them get 21, brother?

[Joe Hayden]

Why are you. He's the COVID two corner, for one thing. Why are you pressed and he's cut, split and you let him get outside. Release of you. Everything inside. Everything inside. What are you doing? And then sink. Keep sinking. If he gets outside of you, continue to sink all the way down until like, that's like a. You could. You could pick the ball off. Don't let him get outside of you for one. You're supposed to push him inside to your safety. You're in cover too. High to low. It's set. It's 4 and 14. So checks down to the man. That kind of.

[Odoo Advertiser]

Yes.

[James Debo Harrison]

We breaking up.

[Joe Hayden]

We're rallying. We're rallying. We're fumbing him. We're knocking this man's head off. And if he's, if it's what he's. What's it gonna be? 5th and 3, 5th and 5. No, the game is over. No, right, like back up. We'll make back up and we gonna come down, hit this man.

[James Debo Harrison]

Fifth and three, fifth and five. What it go be?

[Joe Hayden]

But it gonna be Debo. He acted wilding, man.

[James Debo Harrison]

They kicked the field goal on third down, dude, with four seconds left, they make it lose 29 to 28. Dude, like Tampa, bro, they got some issues over there. The defense sold on them boys, you know, 4th and 14 was the killer. That was it. They let Pitts go crazy for like 166. Three tutties, two of them. He was just wide open, open. The defense gave up almost 500 yards. 476 yards. And oh, listen, on top of that, Atlanta had 19 penalties. Dude, you got beat with a team that had 19 penalties.

[Joe Hayden]

That's what I'm saying, dude.

[James Debo Harrison]

Atlanta showed up late as a defense when it was critical, bro. Like they stepped up. Especially the turnover. That fourth quarter turnover, dude, that was huge. Dude, that was huge the fourth quarter.

[Odoo Advertiser]

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[Coca Cola Advertiser]

What a matchup we got y'.

[Joe Hayden]

All.

[Coca Cola Advertiser]

This is that classic HBCU vibe. Non stop action. The band is rocking and the crowd lit. Chance echo drum beat everybody showing that school pride. Game like this, yeah, it calls for an ice cold Coca Cola. Ah, crisp and refreshing. That's a game Changer right there. Yeah, that taste always hits the right note, just like the band at halftime. And just like that, we're back at it. Passionate fans, school colors everywhere. And in ice cold Coca Cola, that's a winning combo, no matter the sport, no matter the yard. Everybody knows fan work is thirsty work. So grab a Coca Cola and keep that HBCU pride going.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Hello.

[James Debo Harrison]

Hello.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

I'm Malcolm Gladwell, host of the podcast smart talks with IBM. I recently sat down with IBM's chairman and CEO Arvind Krishna, and I asked him, how can companies use AI to its fullest potential to create smarter business? My one advice to them, pick areas you can scale. Don't pick the shiny little toys on the side. For example, if anybody has more than 10% of what they had for customer service 10 years ago, they're already five years behind. If anybody is not using AI to make their developers who write software 30% more productive today with the goal of being 70% more productive.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yeah.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

So we are not asking our clients to be the first experiment on it. We say you can leverage what we did. We are happy to bring out all our learnings, including what needs to change in the process. Because the biggest change is not technology, is getting people to accept that there's a different way to do things. To listen to the full conversation, visit IBM.com smarttalks.

[James Debo Harrison]

I think they possessed the ball almost 11 minutes in the fourth quarter, dude, four or five on third down with the fourth down being the one. So they ain't missed none in the fourth quarter. I think cousins was what, 13 for 145 with a touchdown just in the fourth. Like, the defense just sold, man. Like, I don't, I don't even know what you. Like, what do you even have to say to defend yourself in that one?

[Joe Hayden]

Dude, did you hear the way that the coach was talking after the game, bro?

[James Debo Harrison]

Oh, man.

[Joe Hayden]

And that's what I'm saying.

[James Debo Harrison]

That's. I'm like, and this was not, this was not public TV aired. He was talking to them like he was in a locker room.

[Joe Hayden]

He kept cussing so much. I was like, is he just doing this on purpose? Like, we got your point across. But he kept, he kept on dropping them bombs. I'm like, no, he.

[James Debo Harrison]

This is what I said.

[Joe Hayden]

This is what I said. This is how I'm feeling. Like this is grown men like, da, da, da. I'm like, end of the day, what I'm going to tell you is you're up 14. I feel everything is saying, no matter all this stuff that going on the team had 19 penalties. Like it's fourth and 14. It's like all of these plays that you could have easily still after everything happened, could have walked, walked out of this stadium with a win and he.

[James Debo Harrison]

Could have walked out with a win after that.

[Joe Hayden]

Dude, easy. But like that stuff is crazy. That cover two, that corner right there, my man's. It's for the game. It's fourth and 14. It's not third and 14. This is for all the marbles that check down that they gave pits to when it was third and 28 for him to get it down there. That's a lot of yards. And I respect him. He missed the tackle a little bit. Trying to keep him in bounds. Respect right now it's 4th down and 14 back all the way up. You know what I'm saying? Make them have to catch the ball down and come down and get it. Like there's no world we're going to have to rally today that far up and there's no world where even if you're covered two corner that you're letting that man's getting that you know there's a sweet spot. That's the spot. Back up. Make sure that we can rally down to everything. I'm closer to the. When it's high, low, you're playing the middle. No, it's 4:14. I'm high. I'm high. You not throwing this. I'm right underneath of him. Like I'm looking like I could touch him with my arm so I can break down to the other play. That's just not good ball. So coaches has every right to be mad.

[James Debo Harrison]

Oh yeah. He was fired up offensive side.

[Joe Hayden]

And then like the defense, I mean, just miscommunications. People are in the open. Kyle Pitts, what are we doing in the zones? Grab that man. You know what I'm saying? Like he was beating your man one to one. Winfield, great safety. I love him. But you're five nine and you got you going to your six, three, two. I mean six, four, two something. He's a lot bigger than you. You need a little bit help. So. Yeah, it was. It was wild.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yeah, for sure. I. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if the Bucks go. They having a good day today. They damn sure still at work right now.

[Joe Hayden]

For sure. Get no. See you on Wednesday.

[James Debo Harrison]

Listen, brother is in the hospital for a lung issue. I guess he. I don't know exactly what happened, but they're saying, you know, he was in the hospital. So the initial report was a. Was a lung issue. Let me look at this real quick.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah, let's get. Let's get. Let's. Let's get. Let's give it.

[James Debo Harrison]

So later on, it came out that the latest report said that TJ was hospitalized for some lung discomfort after a treatment session at the Stillers facility. Joe.

[Joe Hayden]

Yes, sir.

[James Debo Harrison]

A treatment session. What. What do you get from that, Joe?

[Joe Hayden]

I get treatment session, we mean. And so when I. Let me get. When I first started listening to this and I hear the lung stuff, like, you're initially thinking like, all right, it happened at practice. So if it's a practice, it's. No, it's like that's where somebody could. You could hit. You could run into somebody, some contact where. Boom, lung, boom. But this one is saying in treatment. So I know very well, as well as you do, treatment is where you're getting worked on. You're getting massage, you're getting. You can get dry needling, you can get acupuncture, things like that.

[James Debo Harrison]

Dry needling.

[Joe Hayden]

Dry needling. So I would say that maybe it's going to the point of dry needling, something like that, where right now I'm saying he gets hospitalized. Dry needling is something that can actually puncture the lungs. Something where Tyrod Taylor. That happened that the staff did to him.

[James Debo Harrison]

His was. His. They were trying to numb something. Something, I think.

[Joe Hayden]

No, no, I. I feel you. I'm just saying that didn't come out at the same time, but it's like.

[James Debo Harrison]

Right.

[Joe Hayden]

The same thing. It's just puncturing like. Like when your doctors at the facility are actively putting a needle inside.

[James Debo Harrison]

Not a doctor.

[Joe Hayden]

No, not doctors. You're.

[James Debo Harrison]

You're.

[Joe Hayden]

You're not. Not doctors. The. The. The staff, the trainers, the training staff. We don't know who it is in the training stuff. So that's where I'm. I'm with it. Where I think that it was more of a, you know, a treatment thing where in. In for the Steelers. They're going to obviously right now, protect, protect, protect. You keep everything on the inside. You know what I'm saying? Like, if something happened where this. Now we'd be looking like, oh, no, who did it? Who was working on tj? Like, da, da, da. It's going to be a whole lot of those questions. So right now, it's a lot of damage control probably going on, but for me, that's scary. Like, yes, you're talking about puncturing lungs. You talking about having to be immediately.

[James Debo Harrison]

Well, here's the issue. Here's the issue. You. I know in Paul, you can get your license to dry needle as long as you're a licensed physical therapist. And it only take like 50 hours. So you go and do 50 hours over, you know, a couple months, and now you're licensed to dry needle. And what people don't understand is just because you licensed don't mean you know what the hell you're doing. Like, I'm not letting anybody, just anybody dry needle me. If you ain't done went and put in 15, 20 years, I'm not letting you dry needle me. And I'm talking about somebody that, they do that on a weekly in and out basis. 10, 15, 20 years of work. Because everybody's anatomy is not the same. You can go and stick a needle in a dude that got a lot of fat on him in his back, and not touch a lung. A guy that got less fat, you can't take that same needle and put it there. You can mess around and go into somebody's trap here and puncture their lung, depending on how much little fat you got there, too. So with that being the case, like, it needs to be more than just you're a physical therapist and now you're going to take 50 hours over a couple months. And now you're licensed to actually go in here and work, especially. Especially work on professional athletes. Like, this is like their bread and butter teams should be like, yo, no, we should get somebody that actually does this instead of me. And like, you know what, let's just go and send one of our people, get licensed so we can do it and just have it legally done. No, go pay the money. You can get somebody that actually knows what they're doing. Been doing it for at least a decade or more. And you have actual, you know, like reviews or people that saying, yo, I've had this treatment and you watch them work like I'm watching you work before I let you put some needles in me. Yeah, like I said. And on top of that, you gotta have 10 more. I'm not just letting you put no needles in me, brother.

[Joe Hayden]

No, I'm with you.

[James Debo Harrison]

I think, I think 100% that this is something along those lines. But I mean, like you said, we won't find out probably until later on down the line.

[Joe Hayden]

You know, I just hope and pray, you know, because, you know, anytime you start talking about the lung stuff, you really. You don't. You don't know. You know what I'm saying? He had to go get to the emergency room, get to the hospital immediately to making sure everything's okay. So I don't want to. I just.

[James Debo Harrison]

Well, from my understanding he's still there, so. Yeah, like, you know, you talking about something, what was it, Wednesday? They said we're on Friday now. And he's. That's not. Yeah, that's not a small thing, you know.

[Joe Hayden]

No, no, no, that's. And it's traumatic, honestly. Like you never know how TJ's feeling. He's still in the hospital. You don't know. You know what I'm saying? Like I would hope to know like what was actually happening, like what kind of treatment he was getting, what was going on. You know how teams and everything, when you really want to, you hear something about a man, you want to know what's going on. We want to get the inside. So you don't want to guests or anything. But at the same time, the Steelers and everybody on that side is probably going to try to keep it in house as long as.

[James Debo Harrison]

But no question, I mean, you know how it goes. We all know we've been there, everything. Trying to be kept in the house. No matter where you're at, if you're with the Steelers, the Browns, whoever, it's. Everything is for the most part trying to be kept in house. But the Steelers, I guess we, we're at a, a decades long run that they say maybe coming to an, coming to an end. And I guess that's the, you know, not having a losing season as a organization since 2003, I think was our last losing season. So it's been 2004 to now. What are you. And then I think Mike is, you know, what, 18 years of that or something like that.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah.

[James Debo Harrison]

You think it's going to end? Are you proud of the run? What do you think?

[Joe Hayden]

I think that's more of you I want to listen to. I want to hear your answer to this question first because I'm more here just, you know, Debo, you're kind of more vested. You know, you're saying you got the Super Bowl.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yeah, I'm a little bit more.

[Joe Hayden]

You're more still a history than me. So I just want to know. But no, like how do you feel about it?

[James Debo Harrison]

So I'll say this. So, yes, basically from 2004 until the present, we've had a winning season or we haven't had a losing season. I should say. That's great. We also had, you know, two Super bowl championships. That's great. So from 2004 to now, Mike Tomlin came in what, 2007, 2008, we won a championship. We also won one in 2005. So with that, you know, I think he inherited a great culture, you know, along with a defense that in 2000, what was it, six was ninth ranked defense. He kept the staff. He, you know, he kept the staff together. They stayed together. You know, he allowed that. Great move, applauding for that. In 2007, we ended up winning. His first year, we were 1. We were 15211. So from 2007 to 2012, we were 15211. Now in 2013, it dropped to a 13. In 2014, it dropped to 18. Now the narrative was Dick LeBeau's defense didn't work anymore, and that was false. Now, Dick LeBeau's defense worked fine when you had players in there who knew the defense. I was in Cincinnati in 2013, okay? So I wasn't there. But I believe that at that time, LeBeau was made to start younger or rookie players that didn't have a full understanding of the defense. And I believe that because in 2013, I had a player call me and he said this right here, he said, they just pulled me from being the starter because quote, is nothing you did wrong. We just want to see what so and so can do. I'm not, I'm not putting names in there, okay? And that right there. Cause the defensive rankings to drop. You know, it went all the way down in 2014-18. His contract, Coach LeBeau's contract was not renewed then because it was stated or believed that his defense no longer worked. Okay? So in 2015, it was a change of DCs, and I believe we dropped to 21. Now that was in cause because the Dick LeBeau defense that we ran was no longer the true Dick LeBeau defense. It was tweaked by coaches that wanted to do something different they thought would work better or would fit the player's abilities better. But when you go and you tweak that, it causes your defense that you're trying to protect that one weakness from. Every defense has one weakness. Just like offenses, when you do that, it causes and creates more issues. So like 2016, I think we ended up getting to like a 12. I think that was the highest that we were at 12. We ended up going to New England and we lost the AFC championship. Now, over the next four years, the defense got significantly better. So from 2017 to 2020, I believe the defense was high.

[Joe Hayden]

That's when your boy. That's when your boy.

[James Debo Harrison]

So they were high as a three And I believe the lowest it was was a six. Now, if you look at that, everybody want to say, okay, well, tj Speaking of tj, TJ Is not. He ain't got it no more. That's a lie. That's a lie. He got it. So if you look at the numbers from 2017 to 2020, TJ, when he first started, he might have been doubled 5% of the time if that. Up to maybe 20%, a little more in 2020. So the defense is 3, 4, 5, 6, whatever it is, it's no lower than a 6 over those four seasons. Right now, you get to 21, and TJ is being doubled 30% or more. Okay. To now he's almost being double 70%. Now. Why do I say this? Because you changed the defense. Now, when you changed the defense, it was other defenses that Coach LeBeau would go to when that would happen to us. And it looked the same as the defenses we would run where your outside linebackers was coming, but it would be a different blitzer. So when you change the defense, you change what's happening. You change who's where. You take away that fear of looking at four different defenses, and there's different people coming on each one. Now you done changed it to where someone's here or someone's there. And now you lose the ability to use the threatening defenses because they're going to look different than the defenses that are there that you actually send your guys.

[Joe Hayden]

I mean, so they're making it look too simple now, you think?

[James Debo Harrison]

I think now people are seeing it easier because you don't have teeth to go with anything that will look identical to what it was supposed to be versus what it could be. So Coastal bowl had four defenses. They would all look the same, but those four defenses would have different people blitzing. So now you got the. That's why rookie quarterbacks would be like, they were just coming from everywhere. Why? Because he's looking at something that looks the same, and he's thinking, it's supposed to be this, and it's not.

[Joe Hayden]

It's totally different. And it's that.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yeah. So, like, I ain't gonna even lie to you. When I retired in 18, dude, I thought, like, we were about to get a championship because the offense was ranked like 4, the defense was ranked like 6, and we didn't even make the playoffs, bro. 17 when I was in New England, I was looking to face him. They got bounced out the first round by Jacksonville.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah, that was the worst.

[James Debo Harrison]

And now, you know, you fast forward to the Day, we're eight, nine years in, we ain't got a playoff win, but we ain't had a losing record along with, hell, we lost to you bums in 20. Like, sorry, Baker Mayfield went crazy on him.

[Joe Hayden]

I was on the team. First snap. First snap was over. My man Ben Head. It just was a bad day, dude.

[James Debo Harrison]

So it's great to not have a losing season, but that's not the Steelers organization. Like that's not the goal. Like the goal when we get in there is not to have a losing season. You know, it's to go in there and win championships. And right now, dude, our goal, I feel like has been switched over to not having a losing season. And the standard of what it was for championships has been lowered to a winning season. And that's not the Steelers that we were built on or the organization, period.

[Joe Hayden]

No, I feel that. I feel it. I mean, I think like you said, I think the big thing. Since when? 2017. I can only speak when I was there, 2017, that year.

[James Debo Harrison]

I wish you got a chance to play in Coach LeBeau's defense, dude.

[Joe Hayden]

I do too. The thing is, Z. Bo, I just know that it's a lot of like I'm smart. I would like to call myself a smart football player. I played in a lot of different defenses. I played cornerback, you know what I'm saying, for a long time. So when I was in, when I first got to the league, like you said, just learning man to man, learning different defenses. And then I'm learning getting a bunch of different D coordinators. So I'm learning just all different types. So by the time I got to Pittsburgh, I would like to give coach C and M credit because the one thing I knew is I was smart. So I knew when I went into the game, the game plan, what we needed to do to win. You know what I'm saying? What they were going to try to go after what we needed to do. Show me my stuff. So I think from when you saying it, younger players are kind of. You need to have those vet players to teach you what's going on, the ins and outs of the defense. Because you won't be able to learn it in off season, in a training game. No, it's just way too much. So just being able to pass the torch and being able to get especially.

[James Debo Harrison]

The bowls defense, dude.

[Joe Hayden]

No, I feel you. I feel you. I just say for me though, I just know it was just. I was rocking with Coach T. Cause I knew what I had to do and it just made it Easier for me. Do you know what I'm saying?

[James Debo Harrison]

So you like or you're. Where are you standing on it coming to an end?

[Joe Hayden]

I am. With it coming to an end. Possibility, I should say, with the possibility of it coming to an end. I am understanding. Because you can't be in a spot for so long and then just. It just. It's not going the way it's supposed to be going. You're not showing the trajectory of it getting better and better and better. It's a lot of. Just eight and eights. Eight and eights. So with Coach T, I think he's a great coach. He can go do this somewhere else. Bring him to Cleveland.

[James Debo Harrison]

Oh, it's 100%, dude. If they were to let him go at the end of this season, he would have a job.

[Joe Hayden]

He hung the phone up 1000%. But. But that's. But because that's why two things could be the same. Like, Coach T is a great coach, but maybe the situation there is just a little. Maybe a different voice, a different change of tune. I don't. I don't know. Because I. It's not like. I don't think Coach T is not a good coach. I think Coach T is a great coach. When I started, when I went over there and started playing for him, just to what I knew what I needed to do, what he told me before the games, just the. Just when you come into the team meeting room, I knew we were going to get good stuff about what we're playing, what we were doing, what we need to do. Solid, like he was. He's a great leader of men, in my opinion. With that being said, being in that locker room and having just rotation, being like you said, coming in with a team from like 07 that already has leaders, you don't have to do too much like building of locker room or camaraderie and all that. It's already there. All you gotta do is go there, be a good coach, be a leader of men, and let the locker room be ran by the locker room. You know what I'm saying? Once you start being in different draft picks and different draft classes and that leadership starts to change in the locker room, I mean, maybe you gotta go to another team that already has leadership, already got a good spot and just needs a voice of a head coach that can be able to set up these pieces. You know what I'm saying? So I don't think Coach T's jacked. I think that for Pittsburgh, they want championships, they want to win this eight and eight this little the defense isn't performing as well as it should. So with that being the case, if Coach T was the coach of a lot of other teams and he wasn't performing at a level it would be able they would have moved on quicker. But it being Pittsburgh and then being kind of nervous and just liking status quo and having Coach T that's a great coach to have status quo. Coach T would be a great coach with any other squad. You know what I'm saying? But just the maybe it's time, you know what I'm saying? Maybe it's okay that our time is not like Andy Reid and the Eagles. I would go there, they great times, they won, they did good. But it's like maybe it's not the time right now. You know what I'm saying? It could be the same way.

[James Debo Harrison]

Okay, I respect that. I may not agree, but I respect that. Hey, your boy Shador, he got rookie of the week after the game, bro. I guess he is the first rookie this year. First rookie quarterback to receive the honor. What? Joe, what do you expect from Shador against the Brown? I mean against the Bears.

[Joe Hayden]

All I know is brother, the way it's supposed to be like running a.

[Odoo Advertiser]

Business is hard enough so why make it harder? With a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other. One for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting. Before you know it, you are drowning in software. Instead of growing your business, this is where Odoo comes in. Odoo is the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all in one fully integrated platform that handles everything. CRM, accounting, inventory, E commerce, HR and more. No more app overload, no more juggling logins. Just one seamless system that makes work easier. And the best part, Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. It's built to grow with your business whether you are just starting out or already scaling up. Plus it's easy to use, customizable and designed to streamline every process so you can focus on what really matters running your business. Thousands of businesses have made the switch so why not you try Odoo for [e-mail] that's O D O O dot com.

[Coca Cola Advertiser]

What a matchup we got y'.

[Joe Hayden]

All.

[Coca Cola Advertiser]

This is that classic HBCU vibe. Non stop action. The babe is rocking and the crowd lit. Chance echo drum beat everybody showing that school pride. Game like this. Yeah, it calls for an ice cold Coca Cola. Ah, crisp and refreshing. That's a game changer right there. Yeah, that taste always hits the right note. Just like the band at halftime. And just like that, we're back at it. Passionate fans, school colors at everywhere and an ice cold Coca Cola. That's a winning combo no matter the sport, no matter the yard. Everybody knows fan work is thirsty work. So grab a Coca Cola and keep that HBCU pride going.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Hello. Hello, I'm Malcolm Gladwell, host of the podcast smart talks with IBM. I recently sat down with IBM's chairman and CEO Arvind Krishna and I asked him, how can companies use AI to its fullest potential to create smarter business? My one advice to them, pick areas you can scale. Don't pick the shiny little toys on the side. For example, if anybody has more than 10% of what they had for customer service 10 years ago, they're already five years behind it. If anybody is not using AI to make their developers who write software 30% more productive today with the goal of being 70% more productive.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yeah. Wow.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

So we are not asking our clients to be the first experiment on it. We say you can leverage what we did. We are happy to bring out all our learnings, including what needs to change in the process. Because the biggest change is not technology, is getting people to accept that there's a different way to do things. To listen to the full conversation, visit IBM.com smarttalks.

[Joe Hayden]

Like 10 degrees, feeling like negative 4. We need to do some of just the same stuff. I like Shador, cause he played in Colorado, he's a quarterback and when he was throwing the ball last week it was terrible weather. He was spinning the rock like he's able to throw in the elements and I love that for my quarterback. So I just wanted to. Don't turn the ball over. Hand it off to Juggins.

[James Debo Harrison]

Hey, you know what? They is on that interception right now.

[Joe Hayden]

And I know they gonna be trying to get some picks. I know they're trying to get some picks and it's gonna be cold as a mud, so good luck. But I just think we gotta run the ball well and take them good. Take, take our shot opportunities and don't turn the ball over. Just do what you've been doing, Shador. Don't do those spin outs, you know what I'm saying? That's the only thing I.

[James Debo Harrison]

What do you expect him to do? Kind of, kind of, you know, hit.

[Joe Hayden]

Here and I, I, I expect him with the weather being like this, I expect him, I just want him to go probably. We gonna go 20, we gonna go seven. No, yeah, 20. 20. For 20, for 30, for 225 yards, two touchdowns.

[James Debo Harrison]

You getting numbers? That boy getting numbers?

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[James Debo Harrison]

I mean, no ints in there, right?

[Joe Hayden]

Zero ints. Zero ints.

[James Debo Harrison]

We've been throwing.

[Joe Hayden]

We've been throwing pits, you know what I'm saying? A little once in a while, but I just think we got to control the ball. Just keep it. Nope, nope, nope. He's going, he's going. He's going to protect.

[James Debo Harrison]

Your head. Said interception, you said. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Can't have it. Can't do it, man. Joe Burrow, man, he had some, you know, he had. He had some words, you know. Hey, just you listen to it, brother. You tell me if I want to keep doing this, I have to have fun doing it. You know, I've been through a lot, and if it's not fun, then what am I doing it for? So that's the mindset I'm trying to bring to the table.

[Joe Hayden]

Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but. Seemed frustrating.

[James Debo Harrison]

There's just a lot of things going on right now. A lot of things going on right now. Football related, personally, all the above. Like you said, there's nothing. All we can do is. Is focus week to week and try to try to win games. I don't think anybody's really thinking about the playoffs right now. That's. That's within reach but on our fingertips. So we just got to keep doing what we're doing and try to get better. Joe. Yeah. What, what, what do you take from that, Joe?

[Joe Hayden]

That man sound big. Sad. Debo.

[James Debo Harrison]

Is Joe under contract? It gotta be.

[Joe Hayden]

They gave.

[James Debo Harrison]

No, I'm just saying. Did they get. How. How big is the bag they gave him?

[Joe Hayden]

Oh, my goodness. They gave Joe B. He get about 55 a year. Joe Burrow got.

[James Debo Harrison]

I don't know, it sound like he want to have fun. And to me, it sounds like the fun thing. I mean, you know what fun is? Winning is fun.

[Joe Hayden]

Winning is fun. You know, five years, 275, you were.

[James Debo Harrison]

In, you know, Cleveland. You weren't having that much fun. Yeah, I think he wants to have fun now. And, you know, with that being said, maybe he's reevaluating his decision and thinking about it a little more. Because, you know, right now, like he said, nobody's thinking about playoffs. You know, how far they are out, you know what they need to happen. A lot of impossibilities, a lot of possibilities. That's kind of impossible. But it's impossible because It's a possibility.

[Joe Hayden]

So what you. So what you thinking? What you thinking? He's saying what you think he's saying?

[James Debo Harrison]

I'm thinking he's saying he's just putting it out there that he's not happy here and it could be a possibility of maybe, you know, somebody or. I mean, I'm pretty sure they probably getting calls or some sort and gauge you know, interests of, you know, what it is that they may or may not be willing to take and receive to maybe hand him to a competing football. So I don't know, Joe.

[Joe Hayden]

I'm just.

[James Debo Harrison]

I'm just talking. You know me who. I'm just talking. I'm just running my mind. I'm just thinking out loud.

[Joe Hayden]

They would never give them to. They would never give them to the Steelers.

[James Debo Harrison]

I said competitive football team. I didn't say like a rival. Don didn't say they would give him to the Steelers.

[Joe Hayden]

No.

[James Debo Harrison]

Maybe they could. Maybe somebody else could get him and we could trade for him to get it, you know, I mean, hope it ain't a poison pill in there like, you know, with Parsons. I don't know, man. I'm just.

[Joe Hayden]

You just throwing things out there.

[James Debo Harrison]

I'm just. I'm just. I'm just putting it up in the air. You got to put it in the atmosphere before anything can go around happen. Possibilities are endless. Joe, what do you think?

[Joe Hayden]

I think Joe Burrow is mad and sad and just pissed that they team isn't that good. And at the same time, getting hit all the time upside the head being out there doesn't help. Like when people are bringing up like Andrew Luck being able to retire a little early, they say he got hit 100. He got sacked 173 times. And Joe Burrow's been sacked 200 like 10 times. And then at the same time, I mean, Joe Burrow, he got fire receivers. He doesn't have a line. Hey, I think it may be what's up.

[James Debo Harrison]

You can't. That's what I was thinking. Dude, you lead air. I know you still Joe, but.

[Joe Hayden]

No, no, for sure.

[James Debo Harrison]

Some things over there you got. Might have to be a, you know, trade. It's a three piece. You, me and them two go. It's a three piece, all or nothing.

[Joe Hayden]

See? No, they. Then you're gonna have to. You're gonna dismember somebody's whole squad. They literally be changing teams. But I think for real, for he's just letting them know he needs what Joe Burrow's been actually asking. Do we ask for T. Higgins to stay. He asked for Jamar Chase to stay. So these dudes all have big contracts. What they do need to do is for real now, since they do have that. That main. The. The you need. They need defense, obviously, and they need offensive line. So I think, hopefully, if they want to keep Joe Burrow in the draft. Only thing you draft is how much.

[James Debo Harrison]

Money you got over there on offense. Dude, What'd you say? How much money you got over there on offense, though? You got. You got room to pay anybody, though? No, no.

[Joe Hayden]

You. You're drafting. You got to draft well.

[James Debo Harrison]

Okay. You gotta drive well.

[Joe Hayden]

You gotta draft well. Draft and draft only offensive line and only defense. And if you go into free agency, only offensive line, only defense. You need to buffer and protect this man at all costs, because at the end of the day, he can't. He's getting beat up, and you can't have. He's been hurt, like, all these injuries since 2000. You can't have him out there keep getting beat up, and you want him to be a franchise. So he's telling him, like, look, all right, man, I'm not happy. My head hurts, my leg hurts, my.

[James Debo Harrison]

Knee, my toe hurts, everything.

[Joe Hayden]

My toe hurts, my shoulder. You know what I'm saying? Like, give me some protection or. Because at the end of the day, too, those calls are going to come. Joe Burrow can go to a team with a line that don't have a quarterback, that has a solid defense, and he'll come, switch up the situation for a lot of teams, and they'll come, drop the bag, get picks and everything. So I think it's a little. Just him telling them, like, look, man, I am Joe Burrow, and I know my value. I keep getting beat up. I need to try to stay healthy. And he's been injured a lot, so now he's looking at it like I'm. It doesn't. I'm not getting hit any less. I'm continuing to get hit. I'm always hurt. Protect me or I. Or I shall bounce.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yeah, Yeah. I think, you know, just putting it out there, letting them know.

[Joe Hayden]

Let him know his temperature.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yeah. You know, temperature done. You know, it done dropped a little bit.

[Odoo Advertiser]

It ain't.

[James Debo Harrison]

It ain't as hot as it was. We had won that game. I might. I might not be feeling this way, you know, so. I understand. But, you know, to me, I think it's just, you know, putting the filler out there, you know, seeing. You know. Seeing what? The cat dragging, you know.

[Joe Hayden]

You know, you say anything out there.

[James Debo Harrison]

I mean, you could have said that, you know, to the. You know, by yourself. You ain't have to, you know, let it out there and open. So he had to let it out there and open. I ain't got no problem with it. You know, everybody. Y' all know. We know everybody know. Now, Joe ain't too happy over there. Now, you don't want Joe unhappy.

[Joe Hayden]

You don't.

[James Debo Harrison]

No. Titan sideline reported removed from the team, playing from the team charter plane after sharing a story of Cam Ward from the flight. Do you know what happened on that, Joe?

[Joe Hayden]

No, I don't know what the story was.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yeah, I don't know what the story is either. Obviously, he must have gave some insight. Intel that was talked on the plane.

[Joe Hayden]

That's what you need to do. They guess that you gotta shut your mouth.

[James Debo Harrison]

No, I don't think they should have the reporters and everybody else on the same plane. That way you don't run into that issue. Like, I don't know, but he actually was asked about it, and, you know, he said the same thing. Like, he don't. He ain't got no. No issue with, like, he didn't change what he said. The reporter wanted to apologize for letting it out, but I guess Cam was like, nah, I don't feel bad. That it. You know, about what I said. I feel the same way.

[Joe Hayden]

I gotta figure out. What did he say, though? Did he say something about his game?

[James Debo Harrison]

He just said that basically he was saying that they won, but the play wasn't good enough. You know, he tried to make it seem like. Well, the reporter tried to make it seem like he wasn't gracious for the win or whatever. I mean, if you can't be, you know, correctively criticism, criticizing, like, what do you expect? I don't. Like I said, I don't see a. I don't see an issue with it. I think that's just, you know, being accountable, having accountability. I mean, the reporter. Maybe he shouldn't have let it out. He shouldn't have been in a position to be able to let it out, put his. Put his butt on a different plane.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah.

[James Debo Harrison]

Or flying commercial. Yeah, he's a report. I mean, like, yeah, yeah, that's. Yeah, that's his job.

[Joe Hayden]

He seems to be like, y' all just want the man to be quiet. I mean, I could if it's. I mean, yeah. I don't know. Get him on a different plane. He might not be the reporter for you. Reporters know they know what's good stuff and know what's bad stuff they like. Oh, no. This could make my team look crazy.

[James Debo Harrison]

This might get me somewhere. He's not happy and they won. Let me report this.

[Joe Hayden]

Oh, got him.

[James Debo Harrison]

Nah, nah. He said. Yeah, and I still ain't happy. Now what? And now you gotta apologize. For real, yo. You know what time it is? Come on. Play a fade. Presented by prize pig. All right, Joe, you know how it work. I made my lineup of picks for Sunday's games, brother. You either play my lineup or you faded. And you tell me why. Look here, I got Shadeau, I got Shadow for mo. Than 8 yards rushing. He gonna have to. He gonna have to use them feet, man. The weather gonna be tough stuff every time. He ain't gonna be able to get it out there like he wants to. Plus, you know, they. They number. They number one. What?

[Joe Hayden]

Joe and pics.

[James Debo Harrison]

Okay. Interception rate. Yes, sir. I got Lamar. I got Lamar for Mo. Hey, he gonna have a run longer than some 13.5. I got him for more. He getting a little healthier. He playing against. You know who the worst. Worst defense in the NFL. The worst in the rush. The Bungles. Bangles. Sorry. The Bengals. Okay. And now I also have. I know this gonna surprise you, but I got. I got. I got Drake May. I got him for less.

[Joe Hayden]

For why? For why? Why, why, why?

[James Debo Harrison]

Buffalo. They doing that thing in the past game, bro. They don't even. They don't even average giving up that much, bro. And it's gonna be a tough game, bruh. They in Buffalo. Like, come on, it's gonna.

[Joe Hayden]

It's probably gonna be snowing. Yeah, okay. And listen, you don't even gotta ask me about that one.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yes.

[Joe Hayden]

You know what time it is?

[James Debo Harrison]

It's Mo.

[Joe Hayden]

It's Mo for show.

[James Debo Harrison]

It's Mo for show. What you gonna do, Joe?

[Joe Hayden]

I'm gonna play it, Debo. I'm gonna play it nasty.

[James Debo Harrison]

So make sure y' all download the app today and use the code Debo Joe to get $50 in lineups after you play your first dollar line. $5 in lineups. Let's go.

[Joe Hayden]

Let's get it, Debo. I like this one, man.

[James Debo Harrison]

Look here, man. Tell your mama, your papa, Everybody. Debo Joe. 50 for show after your first $5, Joe.

[Joe Hayden]

Yes, sir.

[James Debo Harrison]

I want to tell you something, Joe.

[Joe Hayden]

What's up, my brother?

[James Debo Harrison]

I believe that I can fly Believe I can touch the sky.

[Joe Hayden]

I think about it every night and day.

[James Debo Harrison]

You know, I spread my wings and fly away.

[Joe Hayden]

I believe I can soar.

[James Debo Harrison]

Hey, I see me running through that open door.

[Joe Hayden]

I Believe I can fly. I can fly.

[James Debo Harrison]

I believe I can fly. He used to, Joe.

[Joe Hayden]

Yes, sir.

[James Debo Harrison]

So if you were to give Shador the perfect game stats, what would it look like?

[Joe Hayden]

Like the perfect game stats. I would give Shador. Cause honestly, with this game.

[James Debo Harrison]

Nope, not this game. I said perfect game. What would that look like? I would love to see it this.

[Joe Hayden]

Game, but it's just. Look, I would hope he could do the perfect game, but honestly, this game, I gotta say for this game, this game. Cause we're playing Chicago, it's a good team. I don't want to have to put it on his hands to make him have to beat him for throwing for 400 yards. We can get some dump offs. I like downfield. We're gonna have a couple balls to Judy, to Tillman. But mainly I need Fannin.

[James Debo Harrison]

They run defense ain't that tough either though.

[Joe Hayden]

They run game. It ain't that tough.

[James Debo Harrison]

No, it ain't. They run. They run defense ain't that tough.

[Joe Hayden]

That's why we working with Judkins, bro. Judkins, Sampson. And then we gonna work with Fannin.

[James Debo Harrison]

Dude, I thought he was gonna do something last game and he ain't come through.

[Joe Hayden]

I know, bro, he loafed. He low, but that's why he can't do it two times in a row. So we got Shador. This game is going to be. Actually, I only want to throw the ball like 25 times. I want him to be 20 for 25. The five incompletes are mainly instead of like check down or he had to throw him out of bounds. Had to get the. Had to just, you know, throw it out, throw it away. 20 for 25. 250, 260. Okay, two tuz. You know what I'm saying?

[James Debo Harrison]

Boom.

[Joe Hayden]

And then Judkins is going to have two rushing touchdowns. So we're going to have around 28 points. Points, you know what I'm saying? And our defense is going to.

[James Debo Harrison]

How many times? I mean, how many, how many rushes? You got junkins though.

[Joe Hayden]

I need him to have 20.

[James Debo Harrison]

20. At least 20. 20.

[Joe Hayden]

And Samskin. Samson can get five. Samson get five, you gotta have another five. I think Shador's gonna run his five and get his yard. Shador gonna run five and get about 25, you know what I'm saying? That's 30. That's 30. Totes. 30 totes. 25.

[James Debo Harrison]

What's your defense go do what they.

[Joe Hayden]

Supposed to do, Miles, is what they do last time.

[James Debo Harrison]

I'm trying to figure that out. What'd they do last time? Joe.

[Joe Hayden]

CD Bo. That's what I'm saying. You always be green. But look, that's what they have one bad week and then they're gonna come right back and show why they're the number one defense. Miles Garrett is going to get probably number one. No, they probably top three.

[James Debo Harrison]

Miles sold on me. You're supposed to get six.

[Joe Hayden]

He went and got one.

[James Debo Harrison]

Now he got sold on me, man.

[Joe Hayden]

He got a dub, man. You can't be telling. He sold with a. Walking around with a dub of sacks. He ain't so supposed to get six. You're wilding. What's the most you had in the game, Debo? I think I said, was it three and a half?

[James Debo Harrison]

It might have been. I think it was three and a half. It might have been.

[Joe Hayden]

You had 10 tackles, three and a half sacks, a pick, a PBU and two force fumbles. I just seen it going across my timeline the other day.

[James Debo Harrison]

You was spanking. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? I had to make sure I got over there to do the. Over there in Hawaii real quick.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah, yeah.

[James Debo Harrison]

I had to bust it out in one game. You know who that was, that game right there?

[Joe Hayden]

A three. A three and a halfer will get you the hoop, get you across that water, no question.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yo, we gotta. We gotta. Got a super chat. Covenant Life 70397 just donated 50. Thank you very much. She stayed there. She stayed there. She says hello to you two. Dropping in to say hello. Can't wait for the game on Monday. Hope we can walk away with the victory. Joe, I sent you a clip of my grandson to your Instagram in here. I'm here in St. Lucia, of course, until the 27th. Oh, man, I wish. Debo. Just gotta stand up on our side. Yeah, we just. We gotta stand up for sure. We got to like. Joe, check your gram.

[Joe Hayden]

Gotta check my gram.

[James Debo Harrison]

Check your gram. For the clip of the grandson. St. Lucia, Covenant Life, thank you very much. We appreciate you watching. We appreciate your donation. And like I said, we will continue to pray for you that everything goes through a clean, healthy slate. Have a great time out there in St. Lucia, please. We want to thank all of you, Joe and I, we want to thank all you guys for joining us on this episode of Debo and Joe, please make sure you hit the like and subscribe button and we will be back here on Monday because somebody's playing Monday night. Joe.

[Joe Hayden]

Let's go, Debo.

[James Debo Harrison]

Joe, are you muted again? Joe, you good? Joe, did you mute yourself?

[Joe Hayden]

Hello?

[James Debo Harrison]

I got you. Go ahead, Joe.

[Joe Hayden]

We lied, Debo. I can't wait to be back on Monday. You already know what time it is. I will see you on Monday. What's up?

[James Debo Harrison]

And we out here. We out.

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[James Debo Harrison]

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[James Debo Harrison]

Ah.

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[Joe Hayden]

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[James Debo Harrison]

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[Joe Hayden]

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[Joe Hayden]

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[James Debo Harrison]

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[Joe Hayden]

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[James Debo Harrison]

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