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- [00:02]
A
So welcome to your first episode of Debo and Joe. I am your host James Debo Harrison and I'm here with my co host Joseph Walter Hayden iii, better known as Joe Hayden. Please, like subscribe. You don't want to miss what we got going on here. How you doing this morning Joe? On the first day of work, baby brother Debo?
- [00:27]
B
I'm doing great. It's an honor, a pleasure to be here with you. I'm excited about the show, excited to get to it, the vibes, everything. You gave him a full blown government name. People don't do the third. Nobody knows Walter. Nobody knows the third. You out here giving the gems off the ring.
- [00:44]
A
We got to give them what they ain't never had, baby. Yeah, let's get into this though. Let's get into our first topic, man. Michael Parsons was reported reported that some of his Cowboys teammates viewed him as a egotistical and self centered, I guess Sports Illustrated reporter Albert Burr. He said Zach Martin, CD Lamb and Dak Prescott are very popular in the locker room. Not the case with person Parsons. He rattled he will wrangle teammates in different ways. Seen by some as egotistical and self centered. His podcast has created issues too that go all the way back to quarterback Dak Prescott. Dak also added that he wasn't completely surprised by Parsons trade. What do you, what do you think of, of you know, players having podcasts?
- [01:38]
B
I'm not mad at players having podcasts. My thing with players having podcasts is if you're going to be able to take criticism, you're going to be able to give criticism. I think you should be able. It's like an interview like after the games you can be able. If you win, you're going to be able to talk to the media. If you lose, you'll be able to talk to the media. Being able to just give const criticism and just let them know how you really feel. I think egotistical and self centered seems personal to me.
- [02:03]
A
Yes.
- [02:03]
B
I want to know who said this. Who's saying that I'm egotistical? Who's saying that I'm self centered? You know what I'm saying? Put a name to it. It's real easy once you get out the locker room to be like this. Oh, that man was egotistical. Nobody was saying that when he was there. Nobody was saying that he was sacking everybody up. So I just need people to put names to that. And it seems a little personal to me because nobody was saying that when he was making $2.9 million last year when he left for the 47 ball. Now he's egotistical.
- [02:30]
A
So, so my, my thing is this. I think that all players are self centered to, to a point. And when it comes down to it, you have to be, because this is a business. I think what may have happened there, he let the business of football kind of get into the locker room and ruin the personal relationships that he built with those players. And, you know, when that get involved and you start to lose the locker room, you know, that's not something that coaches want. Especially, you know, when you're trying to create and get that Lombardi, you know, you don't want discord in your locker room.
- [03:06]
B
No, a thousand percent.
- [03:07]
A
Yeah, I, I understand what they're saying, but to, to the point of it's not really self centered. Everybody's self centered, egotistical, like you said. I, I find that being very personal. The feelings a lot of these players nowadays, they are very sensitive. They. They really shouldn't be getting into their feelings. You know, like when we play, you know, back in 2007 to, I believe, 2012, our defense was ranked 1:1, 5:2 and 1:1 in those years. But we were highly, you know, critical of each other. We were critical, you know, of ourselves, and we held each other accountable. It was, you know, it was nothing to, to yell and scream at a guy, you know. You know, I go back to. I go back to stories where you got foot, case, you got Casey Hampton and you got foot. And, you know, our big nose tackle, he clogging up the middle, he holding up two guys all the time. So we get. And they'll get maybe four or five yards on the run, you know, and then maybe they'll get four or five yards later on. And the first thing Hamp would do, he'd be like, God damn, what the hell y' all doing back there, man? Y' all gonna stop and make a tackle or what? And this is like 4 or 5 yards. So you got foot and hemp right there. And they're arguing and the ref is like, who you talking to? Like, they think we arguing with the other team, but we talking to his own about to get a flag, man. So that was something that, you know, I was used to, you know, even when I first got to the Steelers, you know, you're going to be held accountable and don't do is going to be pointed out. Bill Coward. Dude, when we watch special teams, the whole team watched special teams together, and he pointed out everybody that did something wrong did not Do a block right, like, so we're going into meetings like, yo, man, how'd you play on special teams, bro?
- [05:09]
B
No, for sure, I don't know, man.
- [05:10]
A
I kind of missed that one block. So I think today's, you know, players are, are very, very sensitive when it comes to, you know, being corrected.
- [05:21]
B
When you saying that, it me, it makes perfect sense because the eye in the sky doesn't lie. And if a coach can show you on the tape and you can take accountability, that's me out there messing up, doing that wrong and not being able to have somebody like you did that. Being able to be like, no, that's me, coach. That's on me. I got the next one. You know what I'm saying? Being able to take that criticism, not be like, nobody trying to do one up you or let you know, but that's not acceptable. Like, if it's on the tape, then it's not good. If you're doing good things on the tape, we're gonna let you know, that's perfect the way it needs to be done. So in the right stuff. And when you do the wrong stuff, being able to take it on the chin and be like, nobody trying to clown you, bro. We just know that that's not gonna work. We're gonna lose with that, you know what I'm saying?
- [06:00]
A
And then, you know, like, with him, you know, holding in as. As they say, and, you know, saying, you know, that he had an issue with his back and, and all that other stuff, you know, guys either know or don't know. You can't tell somebody if their back is hurting. But, you know, that's something else where I believe Mike Flores, he. He reported that, you know, the. The next CBA will find a way to, to try and stop the hold ins. He said the holding process gives players who are willing to cite injury, real or imagined, and not play the real power. The ultimate. It's ultimate goal is it ultimately gave Parsons the power to get out of Dallas. It's power the NFL wants to keep. NFL doesn't want players to have it. So what do you think could be done, or what do you think could happen in the next collective bargaining agreement that would try and oust that?
- [06:54]
B
So the NFL basically, like, this is the thing. It is a business. It is a business, I think with Dak Prescott and CD Lamb and with the dudes on the. On the team, the teammates, you understand that he's going through negotiations. He doesn't want to put himself out there. He's making $2 million. He's about to be making 40 to $50 million per year. It's no point of going out there. And if you are a Cowboys fan or a Cowboys teammate, you're looking at his situation a little different from like, you know, he's.
- [07:22]
A
So how do you think the NFL will try and attack this with the CBA though?
- [07:27]
B
I think the NFL, man, they going, I mean, you can't tell me my back's not hurt. So I'm trying to figure out what specifically they can do to get me to practice or get me to not practice. I think when he's there getting treatment and saying things like that. But I mean, I don't know, maybe they kind to say if you get, you're going to go get an mri, you're going to go do all this stuff. But at the same time, you can't tell me that my back doesn't hurt. You can't tell me my back isn't tight.
- [07:54]
A
Like, I think, go ahead.
- [07:56]
B
It's going to be tough for them to make that, to make that. You know what I'm saying? Make, make NFL players have to do that. I think so.
- [08:03]
A
I think, I think we need. I, I think we need. When I say we NFL, the NFL, pa. I think they need way, way stronger leadership. And I go all the way back to, you know, the 2011 lockout. You were there for that, right? Yeah, My, my, my biggest issue with that was we had poor, poor leadership. D. Marie Smith, I think he was trash. Dude. When it really come down to it, I should be president. That's what it should come down to. I really should be president.
- [08:33]
B
I hear you. I'm here for it. I'm going for you. Come on.
- [08:36]
A
First thing I would do is I would stop letting players vote that are not vested into the program that they're voting for. So you got 53 players on the team, right? Got another. What is it now? 6 or 8? 10. So you got 63 total.
- [08:52]
B
10, 11 practice squads.
- [08:53]
A
Okay, so now you go into the season and they bring in an extra 50 guys, right? Those extra 50 guys get to vote on the collective bargaining agreement. Now, if I'm a rookie, yes, I'm going to vote yes. I don't care what's in there.
- [09:08]
B
Why?
- [09:09]
A
Because I get an opportunity to make half a million to multi millions of dollars. I don't care what's in the collective bargaining agreement. But you're not probably going to be there. The average NFL career is three and a half years. To get vested, it takes you four years and four games to get vested, right?
- [09:29]
B
Yeah.
- [09:29]
A
With that being the case, you're allowing people who will have no say he in the pod say for something that won't happen. So I think the NFLPA should make a ruling. That's the first one. That if you are invested into this, you can vote into this. The second thing I think they should allow is players. You know, you get five years of health care after you're out. Players who are still on that health care plan, still into the nflpa, they need to be able to have a vote. You know, the biggest issue I had with D. Smith was you were put in position to make the hard decisions. And when it came time to make the hard decisions, you let the majority of what he's told me was 80% of guys are saying, yo, I need to go back to work. I don't have this. I don't have that. Didn't they tell us for two years to save up your money so that you had enough to last a year of a lockout?
- [10:24]
B
They did.
- [10:24]
A
Guys, the guys that didn't listen. I'm sorry, but me being the president of the nflpa, I'm trying to take care of past, present, and future. What he did was worried about the guys that. That didn't listen and didn't do what they were supposed to do. And for me, that is a trash move. I'm not going to allow my son to do something that I know is not good for him. You were put in a position of power where you can make that decision. I had guys on other teams that were like, dude, we didn't even vote. We went in, they were like, oh, yeah, we're going to practice. Everything passed. How did y' alls go, man?
- [11:01]
B
Yeah, it mean there's a little bit of the same way. I think the vested players, the older guys, the dudes that were really in the league for a minute were reading it. We're reading the contract, was trying to figure out, to try to get the best deal. A lot of dudes, some other dudes, like you said that didn't save up, weren't really ready for it. Like, man, living more paycheck to paycheck. They like, this is my second year in the league. I need to go get this check. I don't know what y' all are talking about.
- [11:22]
A
Right? So that's what they're counting on. They're counting on the guys in two years, two, three, four that didn't do what they were supposed to do. Now they're going to be that extra, you know, 10% or whatever it may be that's going to put them at the 51% that they need to, to get it passed. As the NFLPA president, I think the biggest thing they need to do is make it to where you cannot vote on the CPA unless you are vested into it. And I think that would make it a whole lot more beneficial for us as players, past former. All that.
- [11:58]
B
Yeah.
- [11:58]
A
To be able to get the things that really matter. I mean, look at the collective bargain agreement. I think they just passed. The biggest thing in there was, hey, we don't get suspended for smoking weed. Come on.
- [12:09]
B
Yeah, yeah. You know, you know, and that's, that's another thing, too. They're keeping that over the NFL's head because weed is something that nobody. They need to. They need to let it be legal. They need to not test dudes for weed because at the end of the day, that is medical.
- [12:24]
A
I can't. I can't agree with that.
- [12:27]
B
Let me tell you this, Debo. Let me tell you why I say this. Let me tell you why I say this, because if you go and tell me that somebody can't go and do their job, they can drink and go on the job, you'll get fired. If you there high and can't practice, you're going to get fired. Nobody's going to want to lose their job over some weed. Or maybe they might, but that's going to be their prerogative. They're grown, they're an adult. They can go smoke weed, they can go drink right before practice and come there. They better be on time. They have to do their meetings. That's your job. That's your profession. Nobody got to tell me what I can go do on my recreational time.
- [13:00]
A
But you also got to understand that. That, you know, I believe and I see that a lot of these NFLPA reps or people that, that are working for the nflpa, it looks like half of them are trying to get a job at the NFL. I mean, you go prime example. Look at Troy Vincent. He was an NFL Pennsylvania rep person. He worked for the nflpa. Next thing you know, he's gone. Now he's working for the NFL. That was during that whole time, you know, you know, when Upshaw ended up passing away sadly and they switched over and then Maurice came in and he shot over to the NFL. To the NFL. And now all of a sudden, you know, this thing, you know, gets passed with flying colors where you had teams talking about, we didn't even vote. I mean, I Understand, all they needed was 51%, but like, it, it doesn't make sense. And it seems like it's a, it's some self sabotage going on in the NFLPA with them making it possible for the NFL to just glide over with these, you know, these CPA agreements, man.
- [14:13]
B
No, I feel you. I feel, I think you, you just want better representation strictly for the players. And I think that you're. You feel like they're a little bit, they're in a little bit of cahoots, you know what I'm saying? At the end of the day, not trying to protect us as much as cahoots.
- [14:27]
A
I'll give you cahoots. So I'll back to the whole Al Jazeera thing where they were saying that I was on GH and it was all these other players on gh, right? So the lawyer that the NFLPA gave me, she said she was close friends with D. Smith. So I'm like, all right, cool, whatever. So I sit down with her and I'm talking to her. She's asking me all the questions. Have you ever did this? Have you ever did that? No, I ain't did this. I ain't did that. You know. You know, I was telling her some stuff that my father had. Did I had, did some alternative treatments for him because he had cancer and so on and so forth. She's like, whoa, what did you, you know, do this, do that? No, I didn't do none of that. You know, blah, blah, blah, right? So I get into the meeting with the NFL lawyers who are trying to make like I did something that I didn't do. And I'm in there with her as my representative. Right?
- [15:21]
B
Huh.
- [15:22]
A
I sit down in the meeting and the first thing the NFL lawyers tell me is, okay, so your, your, your, Your dad, you know, he had cancer, he did some alternative treatments. You, you say you didn't do none of that. Are you sure about that? If I was guilty and had told her this, she would have ran and told them everything. And that's the representation you sent for me and attorney to defend me. You're crazy.
- [15:54]
B
Dude.
- [15:54]
A
It was out of control.
- [15:56]
B
No, okay. No, I could respect that you did that. That, that's. That's wicked.
- [16:01]
A
Yeah, for sure. I see you got that Cleveland hat on, though. So let's go ahead, go to Cleveland now. Let's go ahead, go to Cleveland. So your. They said, Shador, your, Your guy, Joe Thomas had something to say about the door. They say it was strong. I don't know exactly how you know, strong. I would, I would say this is. Thomas said they're not conspiring to sabotage somebody who, by the way, would be great for the league and he is great for the league because the league wants eyeballs on it. There is no reason they would be trying to conspire against him and sabotage him. He all goes on to say, I think his ceiling, I think he has a higher, higher ceiling. He's a great playmaker. He was a tremendous, he was tremendously accurate. He has the feel when he's in the game and how to make the big plays. But just because you have the ceiling that's really high and the potential to be able to do that doesn't mean you could do that right now. What do you, what do you think of those comments about Shador? Well, from Joe, about Shador.
- [17:12]
B
I love Joe Thomas, I love Joe T. And I know that Joe T. Is in Cleveland. He's out there, he's amongst the people. So he knows the pulse a little bit. And for me, I think it's more of the stat. The managers, the general manager, the owners and things trying to just chill the noise. They understand that they have Shador. They're just really trying to start Joe Flacco right now because he's just a consecutive vet. You know what you're going to get. I think that they're going to try to build Shador up a little bit, just give him a little bit of chances. But. All right, let me keep it a beam.
- [17:45]
A
Okay.
- [17:46]
B
When Shador did his last preseason game and they had the third stringers, fourth stringers out there, I didn't feel like that was a good position to put him in to win. And then when they had the fourth quarter drive with one possession left and they took him out and put Huntley in, I don't think they, they did not want him to drive that ball down there and get a touchdown just because it's just too much noise for the Browns to handle right now. I think they want Flacco to get in there, steady the ship and then let Shador and let Dylan keep on battling it out. In my mind, Shador is going to be the better quarterback. Shador's ceiling is higher than what Joe Thomas is saying, but he's saying there's no point in throwing them into the fire right now. They have an og, they have Joe Flacco. Somebody can just try to settle the thing, let the season go. Let's get us some wins. You know what I'm saying? He's been in the league now, what, 18 years. So he's more of a just vet. The same thing that they're doing in New York with Dart and Wilson. You know what I'm saying? You need to just have a vet out there because you don't want to throw your rookie. No, he's the long term deal. You going. He's going to be there for a while.
- [18:48]
A
Yeah, I kind of agree with Joe. I don't see them going in and drafting a guy that they don't see could possibly help the team rather that is if that's right now or later on down the line that, you know, that is up to them to, to, to make that decision or where they see his development going to. But I don't, I don't see the conspiracy of actually drafting a guy anywhere and then, you know, not giving him opportunities or just sitting him there. Just to sitting there. I mean, I got a question at.
- [19:23]
B
All, I got a question for you though. Do you, in your personal opinion, do you think Shador should have went in the fifth round? And if you do like and, and, or if not, why do you think he went in the fifth round?
- [19:35]
A
I don't think he should have went that low. I, and the reason I think he went, you know, that low is I think it has something to do with, you know, with his dad rather that is them not liking him or him not going and doing, you know, the workouts, you know, answering the questions the way they like father told him not to. I mean, it's a big difference between, you know, Dion's talent and Shadora's talent. You know, Dion, you know, that's generational. Shadora is, is a talented athlete. But to, you know, going there and, and not, you know, not work out, not, not give him something. I think, you know, for me as a, as a owner or, or a head coach that, you know, I want to see him do or, you know, throw certain, you know, throws or, or just having there just to see it, you know, in front of me. And yeah, I would feel some type of way, but, but I mean, to be fifth, you know, I think that was a little low.
- [20:37]
B
No, for sure. I respect that though too. I think that he thinks that he didn't go into the process the way he should have, answering the right questions. You know, at the end of the day, you're trying to, you're working for somebody, you're working for a company, you know what I'm saying? And at the quarterback position is a little bit different than db, wide receiver, where I'm gonna just come here, I'm gonna do what I gotta do and just handle business. Regardless. When you're a quarterback, you're face of the franchise, they want you to act a certain way, you know what I'm saying? Maybe treat them a certain type of way, you know what I'm saying? Because you're going to have the keys. You going to be the man. So I think if he were to go back and do it, he would have probably did that a little bit differently, you know what I'm saying? Just being a little cocky, letting them know, like, yeah, I'm him, but at quarterback, you got to kind of transform and just be a little more.
- [21:22]
A
Yeah, they got it. They got it. They got to have an opportunity to really, you know, see and. And get the. The. For sure. Yeah, this is what I'm getting. It wasn't because, you know, you had this prolific receiver, you know, you had horn too, you know, so it wasn't, you know, it wasn't like, you know, he didn't have some good receivers over there. So I totally, you know, understand it. And like I said, at the same time, I understand, you know, how other people see it as being unfair because of, you know, the comparison of, you know, what with his father. But your. Your boy, Travis Kelce, your Clevelander, he said that they should get the people what they want. In terms of Browns fans, Shador, start. Give the people what they want. The world wants to see him go out there and not only play, but have success. At this point, guys are rooting for him. This isn't anything against Dylan. This isn't anything against Joe. Just saying the excitement is there for Shadora to go out there. He's going to put eyes on the screen. He's going to bring people to the game. What do you. What do you think about Travis saying that?
- [22:32]
B
Man, that boy Travis is speaking. That good stuff right there.
- [22:36]
A
Listen, this is what I think. This is what I think Travis should do. Man, Travis can afford it now or we'll be able to. I think what Travis should do is go ahead since he feels so strongly about this Travis, you should go and buy. The Browns fans make the decisions of who was going to play and who's going to start. That's it.
- [23:02]
B
I'm not gonna lie. I'm. I mean, you know, I mean, no, no disrespect to the Hasms. Love the Hasms of death, but if they were up to sale, sell it to Travis because him and Taylor got the bag enough to buy it. And I'm gonna be there chilling with my good man Travis Kelsey. The old. The new owner of the Cleveland. It's like, man, but for real frill, though. Travis is speaking the way that I feel like. And I know, like, end of the day, they got Flacco just to make sure everything's good. He's a veteran. He's been elite for a long time, but get the people what they want. He's talking about giving me what I want. I want. He was talking to me. I want Shador Sanders out that joint for real. Starting with the starting line, the starting receivers, the starting line.
- [23:49]
A
You're saying, go ahead, put him out there as the start.
- [23:51]
B
No, no, no, no, no, no.
- [23:52]
A
Let him. Let him do what he do.
- [23:54]
B
I don't want.
- [23:54]
A
If that don't work, then you fall back to Joe.
- [23:57]
B
No, no, no, no, no. That's not what I. Travis is saying what I. What I want to say, but I'm not going to really say it.
- [24:03]
A
I really want to see what Travis is saying.
- [24:06]
B
Tra. That's what Travis said. Travis is saying what a.
- [24:09]
A
What Joe is saying.
- [24:10]
B
That's not what I'm saying. I feel Travis, though, because I wouldn't be mad at it, but I want it to be Flacco. Just go in there. You know what I'm saying? Hopefully Flacco does as best as he can, but soon as he starts losing, boom.
- [24:25]
A
How many games in there?
- [24:27]
B
Ready?
- [24:27]
A
And.
- [24:30]
B
I'm not wishing on Flaco's downfall.
- [24:32]
A
So that's how many games you gotta lose before. Before Travis, though. I'm gonna say Travis. Before Travis throw Shador in there.
- [24:40]
B
He gotta lose. He gotta lose three of them. Jumps three.
- [24:46]
A
Three, Three. It gotta be three in a row or just three, period.
- [24:50]
B
It depends on our record. If it's two in a row and we're looking foggy and then we lose another one. Three in a row for sure. It's definitely time. Okay, but he win the game. He bought some time.
- [25:01]
A
What if you lose the next one?
- [25:04]
B
He went two in a row.
- [25:05]
A
Two in a row.
- [25:06]
B
He went two in a row. Oh, he's chilling for a little bit. Shador need to just start, you know what I'm saying? Making sure. Take notes, watch and see what he's doing.
- [25:13]
A
Wait, so then he lose one, though, working. Didn't he win one and lose one.
- [25:17]
B
Win one and lose one? Yeah.
- [25:19]
A
Win two, lose one, win one, lose one. Now he had three and two.
- [25:24]
B
Long as he don't lose two in a row. And close to three in a row, he's Solid. He's square business because like, that means we're. We're in the mix. Keeping it 500. Keeping it 500. Soon he gets too below 500. It's time.
- [25:39]
A
Okay, so. So speaking of quarterbacks, let's go over here to the Steelers. Man, I guess the Steelers sent a scout to look at the South Carolina quarterback. Sears, it says if things start off poorly, could you. Could this finally be the season that the Steelers tank for a top quarterback in the NFL? Do you think that Steelers would tank for a top quarterback in the NFL?
- [26:03]
B
That sounds ridiculous. Do you think Coach Tomlin will come into one of those team meetings in the morning talking about taking an L like, we're men, we have something to do. Like, this is our job. We don't get paid by the hour. You know what I'm saying? Like, Coach T. Not with that. He gonna come in that jump motivating with speeches and everything. Like, we're gonna go undefeated. It don't matter what they. Not even undefeated. We're going to win this week. That's what I like about Coach T. He's not looking too far ahead. What we're going to do is who we playing, what is our things. We're going to work on our schedule. We're going to do Mondays. We're going to do like line. We're going to do red zone. We're going to do certain things. We have a schedule that we're going to do, and we're going to do it no matter who we play. You know what I'm saying? What do you want to say? The nameless gray faces. It doesn't matter who they play. They're going to have to come see us. You know what I'm saying? So tanking for the Steelers is crazy that somebody would even think about that because we were Duck. Hodges, my good man, not knocking duck. We trying to win. We thought we were going to win every game when the Duck was the quarterback. Every game we go out, never fought. We never felt like we were inferior or anything. Like we about to bust your heads. Serious.
- [27:09]
A
I never, I never. I would never think of the Steelers tanking. And, you know, again, my biggest reason is Mike Tomlinson. Mike Tomlin is not going to tank a season no matter what. He hasn't had a losing season in, what is it, 18 years. Yeah, he's not going to go out there and try and have a losing season. And I know people say, you know what, man? It's time for a change. It's time for this. It's time for that. You know, he hasn't won a playoff game since 2016. Yeah, you know, that's, that's, that's one of the knocks. But how many coaches out there, you know, can you say, has the record he has, has never had a losing season? And to be quite honest with you, I, I believe that's one of the reasons why he will always keep a job in Pittsburgh. You know, rather he wins a playoff game or not. If he doesn't have a losing season, then, you know, he's, he's going to be there. They're not going to get rid of him. They're, they're, they're, they're going to resign him. If you, you know, you look at the history of all coaches that is in the position that he's in, none of them have been fired. All of them have been rehired. And if you do that today in the hypersensitive racial culture that we have, things would explode. And I get it. I totally get it for the people who are like a. But the standard is the standard. Yeah, it's, it's sort of starting to sound like lip service, because now it looks like the standard is 500 because we haven't won a playoff game since 2016. You know, you got, you got six in one hand, you got a half a dozen in the other. And, you know, I understand both routes. The issue is you can't get rid of that. You. It's not. You can't, you know, you jump out of, you know, the grass is always greener on the other side, and you.
- [29:14]
B
Think it's green side, you know what I'm saying?
- [29:18]
A
It's not really greener than that.
- [29:19]
B
And if somebody were, and they were to let go Coach T, he will be picked up the quickest of any coach of all time. A lot of the other coaches would, A lot of other organizations would love to have Coach Tomlin as a head coach. And especially the way that people speak about them, like, I know me, for instance, just playing from a bunch of different coaches in Cleveland, coming to Pittsburgh. Darius Slayer, Jalen Ramsey. It's not just us. It's like, that's not normal. The way that he just is able to interact with his players, the way he's able to legitimately, like, have real conversations with you. He's not.
- [29:54]
A
Well, I will say this. I understand where you're coming from with that. And I had, that, I had that relationship where, where my relationship with Tomlin broke down was towards the end, you know, the last, last Year. And he always says, as a tough question, I give you a tough answer. Well, I was asking the tough cash. You know, I was asking the tough questions, but I wasn't getting the tough answers. I was getting the answers that, you know, he thought would. Would appease me, to be quite honest with you. I'm like, yo, okay, you know, I need to play. I need to do this. I need to do that. Like, okay, yeah, we. We. We got. You know, we got plans. We're going to. We're going to do something. And, you know, nothing came to it. And what it really came down to is I'm like, yo, if you just sitting me here to have me as a backup just in case one of your young guys go down and you can put me in there, I understand that. But say that. Say that.
- [30:49]
B
Say that to me.
- [30:50]
A
Say that right. Say that to my face. I could deal with it better than you sitting here and feeding me a whole crock of stuff that does not make sense, you know, to the point of where we're going. I think it was Houston or something. Can't remember, but it was before Christmas, and I'm like, yo, I know you're not going to dress me. I know you're not going to play me. Why don't you just let me stay at home?
- [31:17]
B
This is 2017, right?
- [31:19]
A
So why don't you just let me stay at home for this game? And that way I could spend Christmas, you know, with my family, whatever. No, no, no, I can't do that. No, no, we go, you know, we're gonna. We might need you. Okay. And then immediately believe it was that Thursday or Friday, he released me. Like, that's. That's not something you just did on the drop of a hat, you know what I'm saying? That was in the works. Yeah, Was, as he said, a numbers, you know, thing or whatever it may be. No, you saw, I. And here's the crazy part. I said, week one, we played Cleveland. We played y'. All. And I said, hey, I see what you want to do. You want to. You want to play your young guys. I totally understand that. Phase me out. You got younger guys. I don't feel they're better than me right now, but in time, yes, they will be. So why don't y' all just release me and let me go play my, you know, year out somewhere else? No, no, no, no, no. We got a plan for you. No, you don't have a plan, man. And that's the same thing you kept feeding me. So I got to the point where, like, you know what? I'm just disgruntled. I'm trying to do anything to get out of here. Like, I'm trying to make y' all release me, dude. Like, I'm. I'm. I'm practicing a little bit of every. I'm saying my back hurt. I'm telling them any and everything.
- [32:45]
B
Like, you are funny because you saying this is bringing it back. That was my. When I First signed was 2017, when it was the. When you was, like, kind of like, that was the year. You know what I'm saying? When they had. Was it TJ and Bud, you know what I'm saying? You was getting the time, and then you was coming into the meetings. I'm like, oh, yeah, just thugging it, Deebo.
- [33:06]
A
Like, you said, you release.
- [33:08]
B
I said, yeah, no, yeah, I remember. I remember. I was there. I said, oh, yeah, that's Deebo for real.
- [33:15]
A
But that's the thing. That ain't even. They made me out of character.
- [33:19]
B
I know, Deebo, but I'm just saying, that was my first time over there. You wasn't being B, but you was like, yeah. I could just tell you wasn't on that. But it was like, it was. You've been there so long, did so much. That's when the business kind of really hit to where you have a personal relationship with Coach Tomlin. Like, you feel like. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm asking you the hard questions. You should be able to give me the hard answers. We're grown. We're maturing this grown man.
- [33:40]
A
Like, yes, I can understand the types of ways you want to do, no question.
- [33:45]
B
But tell me something so no, for sure, I could see that 100,000% and, like, literally on my way out the door, too, in Pittsburgh, you'd have those conversations until they get a little bit too difficult for them to have. And then that's when the business side clicks in. It's like this. Dang. It really is still a business. Yes, we cool as a mug. We super chill. But, dang, I still got chopped and didn't even know, you know what I'm saying? Like, it gets to that, because at the end of the day, it is love. Once you sign that contract. Now we gonna make this family a family, because we gonna be here.
- [34:18]
A
We.
- [34:18]
B
We gotta be here. You know what I'm saying? I'm working with you because I'm gonna do my job to make so myself does good. You're gonna coach me up, and now we got a Relationship. But soon that somebody else coming in contract get the acting Kevin Colbert get to talking to him and he like this. Ooh. So we gonna have to let Buddy go. That's their conversation. Don't have nothing to do with our relationship. My kids that you see, you know what I'm saying? Like, they like this where.
- [34:41]
A
Where, where. Where mine really fell. I believe it was either Tennessee or Indy. I don't practice all week. He's saying, all right, you're going to get reps. Go rotate you in whatever. Whatever.
- [34:55]
B
Right.
- [34:56]
A
I get to the game when I get to the game, Joe. I am a no dress. I have no uniform in my locker. I am a game day scratch. And I ain't been told a word till I walk in and see it. I told him right then and there, I said, listen, if I ain't playing, I ain't staying. And I left and went home.
- [35:17]
B
Yes, you did.
- [35:20]
A
That's when I started trying to do everything I could to get out of there. Now not are you only now you just now you disrespect, not even talking to me and. And telling me anything. You just blatantly lying.
- [35:34]
B
Now. Are you coming to the game, Debo. And your pads aren't in your locker and it's a sweatsuit in the joint. I'm. Oh, yeah, you. You fed. You.
- [35:45]
A
You.
- [35:45]
B
You have every right to be fed. Especially when you talking to them. You asking these questions when they like, just let me know where I'm at and I'll let you know where you stand. If you want to know, I'll tell you and then you're not telling me. That's. Yeah, that's great. That's great. I'm sorry that joint happened like that, brother. But you know how that. But you know.
- [36:01]
A
Yes.
- [36:02]
B
And that's what you like. Oh, okay. So I'm right.
- [36:05]
A
You got to snap out of it. You got to realize the business is business. You know what I'm saying? You thought that personal relationship you had was gonna get you honesty. No, it's gonna get you. But he needs to tell you to keep his business, keep his position, to keep what he needs going so he can keep his job at this business.
- [36:21]
B
Yeah.
- [36:21]
A
You know what I'm saying? You know, speaking of the Steelers, like, we got Aaron Rodgers over there. How far. How far you think we go get with. With Rogers?
- [36:31]
B
I lied to you. Not man. I'm. If he can stay healthy. Aaron Rodgers is one of the best throwers of the ball that I've seen. Spiral always on point. I think him being there with Coach T, like, like you said, the Steelers defense has always been amazing and when we've had several different quarterbacks, offense has been able to get there. Just don't mess it up. Aaron Rodgers isn't the quarterback that throws a lot of interceptions. He's not going to be putting the ball, turning it over, putting the defense in bad positions. So I think if he could just stay upright, stay healthy and his ball placement is amazing. Just being him and coach working together on a plan like you don't got to throw for five but you could go for 25 tutties in like two interceptions and we could be balling like long as the defense isn't set back in a terrible position, I think they'd be good to go. So him with Coach T, I think it's going to be solid. I just hope he.
- [37:20]
A
What if they start losing? How do you think it go if they start losing?
- [37:23]
B
Man, if they start losing, it's going to go the same way, man. You know how it is. It's one week at a time. I think they're going to be able to, they're going to just try to figure it out, figure out what's going on on the offensive side. I just hope that.
- [37:33]
A
Do you think that relationship stays the same, do you think or, or does it dissipate like we're talking about here?
- [37:40]
B
I think that, I think that, I think that Coach T may have a different relationship with the quarterbacks, you know what I'm saying? Because that's like him and, him and Big Ben. I think that their relationship was pretty, pretty solid, you know what I'm saying? And with the quarterback position, with Aaron's knowledge, I think him maybe go, Deebo, stop making your face like that. Stop making face like that.
- [37:58]
A
From what I saw, you assumed what you assumed, baby. Go ahead.
- [38:01]
B
I'm just saying from my eyes they might not have got along too well. Look like they got along. From my eyes it looked like they got along. And I think that with a smart quarterback like that, with Aaron and his knowledge, I think they're going to be able to try to figure something out just in my eyes. What do you think Deebo? You was there longer than me.
- [38:23]
A
I like I said I'll say again, I think if things go well, they go well. That's why it's a one year deal. If they go well, it's a possibility for being, you know, something else. But if they don't, we know our ties is cut and, and we go, you know, the way we Go. I think it gets super ugly if they get to a point to where it's looking like it's going to be Thomas first losing season because now that puts him in a position he's never been in. And it opens up the gate to a lot of other decisions that could be made, you know, by the Steelers organization.
- [39:07]
B
No, for sure.
- [39:10]
A
I think Rogers, to be honest with you, I don't think he's the player that he used to be. I think now it's to the point where those balls that he would zip out there and it's just a fingertip away and you couldn't get to it. Now guys are getting a hand on that ball. Some guys are picking that ball. The placement is not exactly perfect like it was. You know, it's, it's three inches off. Three inches off. The difference between somebody touching the ball, picking the ball and the ball getting into the receiver's hands.
- [39:45]
B
You ain't lying.
- [39:46]
A
I don't know if you know, he's come to the realization that, you know, it's a little, something a little different. Maybe he has to adjust and he just hasn't adjust to it yet. But, you know, that's the, the big difference that I see, you know, especially like when, you know, when we played him in the super bowl, it's like, you know, you got, you got R.C. he's right there and it's, you know, fingertip.
- [40:07]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [40:08]
A
He just misses it and you know, it's a tuddy. So those, those plays and those throws that, you know, he had his whole career, I think over year or two, he, he doesn't, you know, he just doesn't have those perfect, you know, throws anymore. And you know, that. I think that's the, the difference that, you know, we're seeing now in the last couple of years.
- [40:29]
B
No, for sure. Well, I'm, I'm rooting for him because Aaron Rodgers been one of my favorite quarterbacks for a long time and I hope do good.
- [40:36]
A
Always room for old guy.
- [40:37]
B
Throw out some discount double checks, man. I think if you bring that back, it might, might get pop. You might get back. Sweet. Start doing the discount.
- [40:44]
A
Oh, hold on, hold on. We got breaking news. Brother still is running back Jalen Warren, huh? Headed into the last year of his deal. Just signed a two year deal extension that keeps him contractually tied to the Pittsburgh Steelers through 2027. Do you like this move?
- [41:05]
B
I love this move.
- [41:06]
A
I was gonna say the same thing.
- [41:07]
B
Because Jalen Warren, he hits that hole like he cares. He's hits it he's going to get north and south. He's going to catch the ball out of the backfield, he's going to block and he looks like he just, he just cares. To me, when I see him run, I see his passion. I see him being a, being a very, very good asset to the team. So that's why I think they didn't care as much. Not never knocking Najee. Love Najee, but it wasn't as expensive and he was hitting that hole very hard. So them being able to keep him, I think that's a great move for the Steelers. I don't think they probably had to pay my man too much, but he's wor. Worth every penny or whatever they signed up for because he's, he's, he's. He deserves back pay. He's getting a little back pay in this contract and then this joint right now because he's solid player. I think he's a good dude and I think he's going to be solid for the Steelers for sure.
- [41:58]
A
Yeah, I agree with you 100%. You know, I think, you know, having him there, you know, gives you a, a better opportunity to have a running game which will hopefully help take some of that, you know, pressure off, off of Rogers and you know, stop, you know, allowing the D line to, to just pin their ears back in certain situations. Keep the game close. You know, when you got the. When you have, you know, a two, a two headed monster, so to speak, and I wouldn't even call it a monster. You have a two headed attack and you have a running game that can compliment your passing game. It's, you know, it's a lot harder to zero in. He is a, you know, he's a good running back. Like you said north and south, you know, he's going to put his head down and you know, if it's nothing but three, four yards in a cloud of dust, that's all you need to, you know, to keep the chains moving. So I definitely, you know, like the move. I'm, you know, I'm, I'm all in for it.
- [42:49]
B
I like that you're a Warren for Jalen Warren fan. We feel the same way. That dude is a he. He just gets after it, bro.
- [42:57]
A
Yo, man, why this dude on Chad Talk? Why this dude Chados was on live talking about he go beat my ass, bro.
- [43:03]
B
No, he not that dude. Ocho. Ocho. That's my good man too. I mean. Oh, so that's my good man. I don't know. Y' all ain't Going.
- [43:10]
A
No, I sent you the word, man. I'm trying to be. I'm trying to be a. I'm trying to live my life right, Be peaceful. But what he doing? Is he. He making me go back into that other side? No, I' ma bust his ass, bro. I'm taking to where he can't see out both eyes. One of his eyes, damn near. He ain't gonna be able to see out of neither one of them. He keeps on playing.
- [43:29]
B
Come on, Debo. See, Relax, Debo. We gotta chill. I'm gonna. I'm gonna talk to Ocho. I'm gonna talk to Ocho. We gonna talk. We all going. We all gonna just chill.
- [43:39]
A
Listen. Oh, to go.
- [43:40]
B
He.
- [43:40]
A
I'm gonna talk to him with these hands and these feet. And the feet, and the feet. It's MMA style, man. It ain't. It. It ain't nothing.
- [43:49]
B
Stop.
- [43:49]
A
You know what? Let me stop that.
- [43:51]
B
Oh, yeah, that's what I'm saying.
- [43:52]
A
I ain't gonna hurt him too bad.
- [43:53]
B
No, man, that's my great, man. Come on. That's a good dude right there.
- [43:56]
A
I don't hurt him too bad. I'm just gonna do enough. I'll just put him to sleep. I just choke him out. How about that?
- [44:02]
B
All right. Just let him tap. Quick tap.
- [44:05]
A
I can't. I don't even know if I can let him. Okay, if he tapped in, quick tap.
- [44:10]
B
As soon as you get on up, I'm out.
- [44:12]
A
Nah, nah. I gotta make like I ain't feel the tap, though. He got. He got at least fall out for a little bit, you know what I'm saying?
- [44:21]
B
I' ma tap you form.
- [44:24]
A
Who you taking, me or Chad? We gotta get this. We got. We getting this set up.
- [44:27]
B
So we're talking about. Listen, we. If we're talking mma, brother, we taking mma. I'm taking you deep. Oh, because I'm telling you, I mean, how you gonna. I'm just done with you. You grab hold of Chad, you know what I'm saying? Like, I don't know how he's gonna get out.
- [44:43]
A
He ain't. He ain't. And see, that's what I'm do. Because I'm a nice person. Just grab a hold of and just squeeze. Matter of fact, I'm just gonna bear hugging me until he tap.
- [44:53]
B
That's what I'm saying.
- [44:54]
A
Just break a ribbon, you know, Just squeeze him so tight until his real.
- [44:59]
B
Chill, man. Chill, Debo. You know, Chill, Debo.
- [45:02]
A
That's better than damaging, you know, his vision permanently.
- [45:05]
B
Man, let's See, look, you can heal from that. Let's get off my good man Chad and get to some more. Takes you out here trying to fight.
- [45:14]
A
Listen, man, I ain't trying to fight. He on live talking about what he go do to me. What you want me to do, man?
- [45:19]
B
Yeah, you gotta. You gotta respond.
- [45:21]
A
I gotta respond. What else am I supposed to do? Not respond.
- [45:25]
B
Yeah, that's my bad.
- [45:26]
A
Listen, man. So the Giants got some issues over there, right? Not even really an issue. You know, they got some quarterback possibility things going on. The Giants have a demanding open season schedule. It looks like playing the commanders Cowboys, Chiefs and Chargers over the first four weeks of 2025. Buddy Athletic reports that Russ must engineer wins against those contenders to prevent head coach from benching him for the rookie dart. It sounds awfully familiar to 2019 when the plan was for Eli Manning to start with Jones on the bench and then Jones took over at their O2 start. Do you like how Jackson dart played this preseason?
- [46:24]
B
I do.
- [46:25]
A
Do you like enough to just be like go in here and don't give Russia shot at all?
- [46:31]
B
No. They're doing the same thing that the Browns are doing with Joe Flacco to Russell Wilson. They're literally putting them out there. If you start losing darts on your. If you win, you can hold them all for a little bit longer. Them dudes, bro. Russell Wilson contract 1 year, 11.3 million. Joe Flacco's contract, 1 year for 4 million. Up to 30, up to 13 if he plays. So both of them dudes got team friendly contracts. The coaches is like this. We got these vets out there, year 14, year 18, with these rookies behind them. They're going to look and see what's going on. They might not get their head beat in off the beginning of the season. Watch and learn. See, because it's about to be you out there. Just take notes. You know what I'm saying? So as long as the vets can hold it off, they're gonna be out there to play Russell. Same thing. He goes, but he got a schedule on his head. He might go. He might. They might get him full shots.
- [47:27]
A
Okay, so what happens if Russ get out there? Russ do his thing, somehow miraculously, he falls back into the form he had in Seattle and he's doing the thing and he done went pro bowl all pro. What happens then next year?
- [47:45]
B
Next year they might give him another one year jump, maybe two.
- [47:51]
A
But what round did they get dart in?
- [47:53]
B
Right, they got dart in the first round. But like Patrick, you don't Get a.
- [47:57]
A
First rounder to sit him around for two.
- [47:58]
B
Like Patrick Mahomes. Like Patrick Mahomes. Patrick Mahomes didn't play. Patrick Mahomes didn't play. Aaron Rodgers didn't play. These dudes chill. And as soon as they got in, they took off, you know what I'm saying? If. I think if Patrick Mahomes would have got in before Alex Smith was ready to move, then he might have been looking crazy, you know what I'm saying?
- [48:17]
A
Possibility. It's a learning curve.
- [48:19]
B
It's a little curve. Little curve. So, like, I think the longer the.
- [48:21]
A
Big learning curve, I think for quarterbacks, it's even. It's even bigger, you know, I mean, you go back to. I mean. Well, Ben ended up starting, I believe, his first year after. I think it might have been an injury or what.
- [48:35]
B
You know what?
- [48:36]
A
Ben had a running game in the defense.
- [48:40]
B
Y' all was knocking people's heads off and they had a big line and y' all was toting that joint. Yeah.
- [48:45]
A
So being got the opportunity, I believe, to. To have that. That learning curve, but actually be in there and do it through the process of the first, you know, couple years, you know, where they'd run the ball, run the ball, hit you with a, you know, hit you with a deep pass or run, run past here, run, run, pass here. However it was, which took, you know, a lot of. A lot of pressure off him, especially as being a young quarterback sitting out there trying to read, you know, defenses, you know, complicated defenses at that. And, you know, that opportunity, I think helped him, you know, grow even faster, I think, you know, even to the point of, you know, where he would, you know, especially when he was real young, he. He scrambled around and I think, like, some of that may have been, you know, just trying to get to the read in time. Just maybe couldn't get to the read in time. And now, you know, the pressure is coming. So now he scrambles. And what's the first thing that happens when a quarterback starts scrambling? Your defense breaks down. You know, you start trying to get to whoever's near you. And that's great, you know, when you're a quarterback, because now it's just spot and throw. You know, spot the guy you want to hit and throw it to him. So I think that, you know, that was something that was beneficial to him, you know, being a young quarterback, having that running game, having that offensive line, having that defense that, you know, was going to make sure that you got opportunities to be able to go out there and just Take it. Take your time. You know, get into the NFL system and then having a defense that if you did make a mistake, you know they were there to. To back you up and put out the fire.
- [50:25]
B
Yep. Say he ain't feel like they putting the whole everything on them. It's not all depending on you. We gonna be good regardless. Just don't go out here and mess it all up. You know what I'm saying? Like, just be consistent, do your part. Do your 1 11th and we gonna be good. I think that's really good for rookies, not having to have too much on their head to come in there and like, oh, no, I gotta change the franchise. No, you need to come out here, make sure you know the reads, know what you're doing, know where everybody's job is, and then we're gonna be able to getting to it, hand the ball off. Great running back you got, you know what I'm saying, behind this big line.
- [50:56]
A
So at what point do you think they put in Dart at? Where is that?
- [51:05]
B
Yeah, I'm. I think it's the same day, just depending on how he starts off the season. And I think that. I think after the first, after Russell Wilson's going to play at least four.
- [51:16]
A
Like. Like. Like. Like Jones, they go on to. What happens?
- [51:19]
B
He go owing to. They talking that he might. He's. He goes owing to. He might start the third game. He may get pulled.
- [51:27]
A
So you say he go on too. That it's a possibility he gets a chance in the third game.
- [51:32]
B
Yeah.
- [51:32]
A
Having the rook ready to go ahead and step on in.
- [51:35]
B
He might get pulled game won't make it to the. I don't know if he make it to the fourth. They go on three. Because the way Dart was looking in the preseason, he looked. Yeah, he looked like, all right, man, this gonna be. Keep losing. Like what we. He. He was.
- [51:48]
A
You know, the thing I hate about the preseason, man, that you don't really get to see the players that you're going to get to see in the regular season. So it may make some guys look better than what they are, but you're not actually going against the talent that you would be going against because, you know, like you said, like I said, rather 50 of those guys that just got put in there aren't going to make it.
- [52:13]
B
Nope.
- [52:14]
A
So, you know, that's again, another six in one hand, half a dozen in the other.
- [52:19]
B
No. A thousand percent.
- [52:21]
A
Yeah. But do you think that if this doesn't work here and. And Russ gets bench, do you think this is The. The last stop for him.
- [52:32]
B
Do you think that's man, no. Quarterbacks have 13, 000 lives. And I know for sure somebody have him as a backup somewhere. Like. Yeah, I think he's a good dude. I don't know. The circus. They might. They might think Russell has a little bit of stuff going on with him, but in my opinion, I think he'd be able to stay in the league a couple more years for sure if not trying to fight for a star.
- [52:59]
A
When you say the circus you gotta. You gotta. You gotta elaborate on that.
- [53:03]
B
When I say the circus they just the way Russell would go go whatever the team it is go like just his little. That stuff and then some just from Seattle. I don't. He's a good dude. I like people try to say he's a little like corny and then bringing in Sierra like there's more than just.
- [53:23]
A
It's. It's a little bit of an entourage to him too.
- [53:26]
B
And I know. I don't mean. I don't. I don't mean to say circus. I don't think it's a circus. I love Sierra. I love nothing but nice to me. But the way that people always try to make other people's situations seem like, oh, we got so much going on. NFL owners, they may not want to have time for. If your quarterback is not balling like a 50 million dollar quarterback, they might think that that's a lot that comes with him. So I'm not trying to say that that's me personally. I'm just trying to say how. The way, you know, I'm saying Lee.
- [53:51]
A
I think. I mean just from what I've seen and what I heard, I think. I think to any organization, you know, depending on. Not any organization depending on where you at. I don't think New York it would. It would be such a thing. I think in. They can handle it. Smaller. Yeah. I think a smaller. Less smaller cities it would be smaller market, more of a distraction. You know, especially you know, with the. With the entourage that you know, comes along with it and the players, you know, you know, we in Pittsburgh, you know, don't nobody go around with, you know, bodyguards or anything like that. Everybody goes where they, you know, goes where they need to go by themselves. So. But for me, I think it would be his last stop. It's New York. It's the Giants, bro.
- [54:47]
B
Yeah.
- [54:48]
A
I mean where. Where else you go. Go from there if you.
- [54:54]
B
It's probably not to like just if he wants to stay in the league, you know what I'M saying, you know how you got those guys, man. At the end of the day, backup quarterbacks is probably one of the easiest positions to have in the league.
- [55:03]
A
If you go back, do he want to. Do he want to be a backup quarterback making, you know, mid league minimum and you know, it's a lot that goes on with you having all that stuff around you. Is that even, you know, worth it at that point, you know?
- [55:20]
B
No, no, for sure. I don't think it would be worth it to Russ. But you never know, like if he wants to still be involved in the game, like this is what he's doing. But at the same time, like you said, he got a lot of stuff going on off the field. So he may not like 11, 11 million a year right now to him is he's. He got dope, so he's not really worried. May not be worried about the bread as much. But I'm like for the love of the game, if you want to go give yourself a shot to try to continue, you're right. I don't know who many teams maybe give him that starting opportunity. If he's okay with the backup role, then that might be a situation. He might just got to be like, you know what, like, my time is up. Or like you got gracefully bow out the league going to let you know when your time is up, when you stop getting them calls, you know, like, oh, ain't nobody hidden. Okay, so I guess it's my time to go ahead and go.
- [56:06]
A
Yeah, I'll, I'll agree with you on that. That I think it's going to come down to him going somewhere and them saying, okay, you're going to be the starter. I don't, I don't think that's going to happen. Him going somewhere and being okay with saying, okay, I'm going to be the backup to blah, blah, blah. You know, it gives you, you know, a person that has played in this game for a while, understands things to, you know, and can come in and give you that. That fill in when you would need it. But is he willing to do that? That's going to be the, the big thing that is going to be yet to be seen. I would say as far as him being corny, man, he ain't corny, dude.
- [56:47]
B
I don't think he's corny either, bro.
- [56:48]
A
I think he's a very. He's him, dude. And it's not, it's not. See, corny is being fake to me. That's him. He's not.
- [57:04]
B
Yes. Okay.
- [57:04]
A
No, it's just totally him. I met the dude, sat down with him, you know, hey, dad, I'm sitting there and I'm looking and I'm talking to him and. And we're, you know, we're there for a few hours and I'm like. Like, this is really him. Like, this is really the guy he is. It's the dude you see, you know, on. On. On the. On. On tv, you know. You know, that's him. That's authentically him. It's not. I mean, some people may call it corny, but it's only corny if you doing it and it ain't you. But that's. That's. That's him, man. It was. It was. Yeah, it was. I ain't gonna lie, man. It kind of surprised me to see. And I'm like, I'm about to see, you know, the real him. You know what I'm saying? Like, I didn't know I had never met him. I'm like, all right, I'm about to see him behind closed doors. What? Yeah, you know what? Ain't really in front of the cameras. And I'm sitting there and I'm like, yo, that's really him, man.
- [58:02]
B
Genuine, bro. It's genuine. Genuine super, super chill, dude. And that's like you said too. You said corny. Is somebody pretending to be something they not. That's not Russ.
- [58:12]
A
No, no. Yeah, that's authentically him, man. For sure.
- [58:16]
B
Hell yeah. Hold on, man. So who else we got going? The Cowboys.
- [58:22]
A
The Cowboys. We got. We got my guy right here, Blaine. That boy got 4 year, 92 million extension including 50 million guaranteed. You will average 23 million. Makes him the 6th highest paid corner in the league. How you think? Never mind. I ain't gonna get messy. I'm gonna ask you, how you think Michael feel about that?
- [58:45]
B
No, man, that's.
- [58:48]
A
No. What do you think? Hey, what do you think? What do you think of the deal, though?
- [58:52]
B
Oh, man, I think that's a great deal. He went and got 23 a year. Six highest paid cornerback. I think from that year when he went all pro Pro bowl, he had like nine picks a couple pick, sixes in a row.
- [59:05]
A
I think he had like five that season or something.
- [59:07]
B
I think it was five that season, bro.
- [59:09]
A
Yeah.
- [59:10]
B
So, yeah, he. He stepped on and then last year he think he got injured, so he missed 10 games. But he, like you said, back pay. He wasn't a high pick. And now he's. He's able to get that bag. And now him opposite of Diggs, I think they should be able to kind of lock down that secondary a little bit more, man. Just get, be consistent, get some picks, man, keep the big in front of them.
- [59:31]
A
I'm gonna go ahead and explain to the people. Back pay. So when we say back pay, back pay means I played my first, say three or four years. Three or four years, okay. And I'm on a rookie deal. That rookie deal if I'm good, or that rookie deal if you play above. It means that those years that you played, you played at the level of say top five guy in the league. Those top five guys in the league make a certain amount of money that's certain that, that that certain amount of money over those three years average out to something. So when it comes time for the deal, they won't back pay, which you should get your back pay because you played for $2 million a year or $3 million a year when you played at a level for a guy that should be making $20 million a year. So as soon as I get to that deal, I'm gonna need 40, 60 million dollars of back pay, which should be guaranteed, plus what you see my future being another 20 or so. And that's where we at with a nice little four year, 92 million dollar contract extension.
- [60:44]
B
Thousand percent.
- [60:45]
A
That's what we talking about when we say back pay.
- [60:47]
B
I could break down the contract for you for the back pay, Debo. And that is the Micah Parsons contract. And that's exactly why we get to this back pay. Micah Parsons signed four years, $17 million fully guaranteed in his rookie contract. That good man was making $4.4 million a year while he was sacking the quarterback 10 to 15 times a year.
- [61:09]
A
12 plus each season.
- [61:11]
B
12 plus each season. By the same time we got T.J. watt, Miles Garrett making $25 million a year. And then they read up this is their second contract that they hit they ass forward. So Miles hit him again, hit him for five years, 125, then hit them again for a four years, 160. Micah Parsons is coming off of making $4.4 million a year. So 10.4 rookie deal got a nice little sign among 9. 9 million, then 1.4 the next year. After taxes, my man touched $700,000. Year three, 2.2 after tax. Man says $1.3 million year four, 2.9. He's touching 1.6, 1.7 million. So he's sitting here looking around at miles making 25, then he reads up for 40. He needs his pay this first contract is your back pay. And it's your biggest contract, the one where no matter what happens, I'm gonna be able to provide, be good. This is when you start making generational. That first contract, that 17 million. Understand everybody's like, oh, the generational wealth. But you understand when you looking at another man making the same, playing the same position, doing the same thing as you that's making $25 million a year to $40 million a year, and you making for it just baffles you. So you have to get to your bag initially first for back pay and front pay. And then I think what a lot.
- [62:33]
A
Of people don't understand is the. The lack of financial education that we as players didn't have. I was one of them, you know, my first. My first year, I saved up a lot because I was practice squad, you.
- [62:49]
B
Know, that was that.
- [62:50]
A
But when I got my first deal, that was, you know, like 5 million, like three or four years, 5 million. At the end of that deal, dude, I had about 300, 000 in the bank. I had a house and a car. I was spending it as fast as I was getting it because I wasn't even counting it.
- [63:10]
B
Yeah.
- [63:10]
A
And I didn't, you know, I didn't have that, that understanding that, like, yo, this could be over with and it could all end out of nowhere. You're like, oh, my next check is gonna be this. I'm gonna be good. You're not. You're not looking, you know, further into the future. That's why when, you know, I got my big deal, all I did was, you know, I gave money, I invested, I get money, I invested. You know, they say you get it and spend it. No, I was. I was investing it because I had then got old enough to understand and see that, you know, what I gotta be able to save. And the biggest thing for me that happened for me, dude, to be honest with you, when I got my second deal is I had my son James, and I was like, oh, shit, I got to take care of somebody else. I got to make sure that, you know, he's taken care of, that he has something when the time comes that I'm no longer here. And, you know, then I back that up with Henry and I'm like, whoa. Like, I. I can't. You know, God forbid I leave this world early. I. I at least got to leave them something. I mean, no matter when you leave, they gonna be hurt. But, you know, it's go. It's gonn know more if they have something to lean on, you know, a thousand percent. Yeah. So that was what really, you know, got me to where I was like, yo, I can't. I can't keep doing what, you know what I'm doing.
- [64:35]
B
No, for sure. Because, bro, at the end of the day, they didn't teach that in school in high school. They didn't teach you about money in middle school, high school, when you went to college. So you go from making really nothing to now you really getting checks. And at the end of the day, the taxes, all of that stuff is a real thing. People see your 5 million, you didn't touch $5 million. And it was in five years. So you busting that down. You touch two and a half and then you have to live your damn self. And people think you got five.
- [65:02]
A
Yeah. And you helping, you know, you help.
- [65:04]
B
You helping, you helping this.
- [65:06]
A
You're doing all that because you, you know, you're not really. You're not counting, dude, you're not counting it. I'm trying to get people to understand, like, guys aren't counting this. They're not. Especially when you first get in there.
- [65:16]
B
You know, boy, when you first get in there, you think you're going to play forever. You're never going to be in the league.
- [65:23]
A
So that next $3,000 for my signing bonus. And you couldn't tell me.
- [65:31]
B
Bro, you thought that was 300 million, bro, you.
- [65:35]
A
Couldn'T sell me nothing, man.
- [65:37]
B
So, yeah, it's just a. Just that. That's the part two when us being able to see. Stay in the league. So that first contract and then some people, they get cut. So that's the part where how do they go broke? I could show you easily. Like, it's not that difficult. And I don't know, they could last forever. Let me tell you something. If you can't manage your little 200, 300, 400, you're not gonna be able to manage a lot more money.
- [66:00]
A
300 million, period.
- [66:02]
B
You're gonna be able to. You're gonna start doing things that you think that is cool and sweet and all that. So just being able to get financially literate and then being able to do that, if you did spend that at the beginning, now that's what literacy is.
- [66:15]
A
Something that they know is going to teach to all young athletes requirement.
- [66:22]
B
And the part is too, you can't knock kids also, because if you never had it, you want to. You can't tell them they can't do nothing. Yep, you're gonna be able to have a budget. You're gonna be able to spend some stuff.
- [66:33]
A
I know you threw away plenty of money on cars and everything else.
- [66:36]
B
You know it. And some jewelry and things. But at the same time, just. You got to give. You give yourself a budget, have a little bit of fun. But knowing at the end of the day, we're planning for if the. If. If this contract was to end today. You know what I'm saying? Not you're dependent on next contracts, next deals.
- [66:52]
A
You know how many guys, when I first got in the league, it was like, yo, man, I got to get to this next contract, and I ain't got nothing. I got to get to this next time. And 70 of them never got to it.
- [67:02]
B
We hit. They. They planning on spending money that you don't even have yet. That's the crazy part. You like? Oh, yeah. This whole jump right here. Wait. But I get the next one. That's when I'm gonna start saving. It's too late for that, boss man. Look like.
- [67:15]
A
Look like we don't. We don't ran over a little bit. So what we go do here is we're gonna let y' all know. I hope y' all enjoy the first ever Debo and Joe show again. We need y' all to like and subscribe. You don't want to miss it. You want to see more. Joe, tell them what's gonna happen if they don't like and subscribe.
- [67:43]
B
Joe. If you don't like and subscribe to Debo and Joe, imma have Debo whoop your ass.
- [67:53]
A
That's for you, Chad.
- [67:55]
B
Oh, Chad. Like and subscribe.