Nightcap - Hour 1: Baker sues family, Stroud sophomore slump, Rodgers future

Summary

Club Shay Shay: Nightcap - Hour 1 Summary

Release Date: November 27, 2024

In this engaging episode of Club Shay Shay, NFL legend Shannon Sharpe delves deep into some of the most pressing topics in the football world. Hosted by iHeartPodcasts, The Volume, and Shay Shay Media, this episode titled "Nightcap - Hour 1: Baker sues family, Stroud sophomore slump, Rodgers future" navigates through high-stakes legal battles, quarterback performances, and future prospects of renowned players. The discussion is primarily between co-hosts Ocho Cinco and Chad Johnson, who provide sharp insights and candid opinions on each topic.

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1. Baker Mayfield Sues Family for $12 Million

The episode kicks off with a heated discussion about Baker Mayfield filing a lawsuit against his father and brother's investment firm for $12 million. Mayfield alleges that his family misused funds between 2018 and 2021, diverting money without authorization to cover personal expenses.

Key Points:

• Misuse of Funds: Baker claims unauthorized diversion of funds by his family members.
• Impact on Family Trust: The lawsuit raises questions about financial trust and management within families, especially in high-profile athletes' lives.

Notable Quote:

• Ocho Cinco [05:03]: “Why would you do that to your... Why would you take something from anybody but your brother, your son?”

Chad Johnson's Perspective: Chad emphasizes the destructive nature of money within families, stating, "The root of all evil is always been money. What ruins families? Money. You can’t trust anyone around that kind of money." This underscores the broader implications of financial disputes beyond individual cases.

Ocho Cinco's Reflection: Ocho brings a personal angle, sharing his experiences and stressing the importance of cautious financial dealings even with family. "I couldn't invest that kind of money. You got to be real careful even with family."

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2. CJ Stroud's Performance and Potential Sophomore Slump

The conversation shifts to CJ Stroud, a promising quarterback who has recently faced challenges on the field. The hosts analyze his mixed performances, highlighting both his potential and the hurdles he's encountering.

Key Points:

• Performance Metrics: Stroud has thrown multiple touchdown passes but has also faced interceptions and sacks.
• Team Dynamics: The discussion touches on the offensive line's impact and the overall performance of the team affecting Stroud's output.

Notable Quote:

• Chad Johnson [20:12]: “Would you consider this a sophomore slump as a quarterback?”

Ocho Cinco's Analysis: Ocho critiques the supporting cast around Stroud, noting the absence of key players like Nico Collins and the challenges posed by a solid defense. "Nico Collins was a Pro Bowl player last year. He's a very talented young receiver. He's tremendous..."

Chad Johnson's Insights: Chad attributes Stroud's struggles to both personal performance issues and team shortcomings. "His decision making is not as sharp as it was last year with the ball getting hit upside the head every time he dropped back."

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3. Aaron Rodgers' Future with the Jets

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to the future of Aaron Rodgers, particularly his strained relationship with the New York Jets and the possibility of his release.

Key Points:

• Team Relations: Rodgers' relationship with the Jets' owner and management has been deteriorating, leading to speculation about his future.
• Performance and Legacy: Despite his illustrious career, questions arise about how he will fit into new teams and whether he can still perform at a high level.

Notable Quotes:

• Ocho Cinco [38:53]: “The Jets could reportedly release Aaron Rodgers in season. Rodgers wants to play in 2025, but not with the Jets.”
• Chad Johnson [42:17]: “Aaron... you better focus and lock in because you're gonna be on the outside looking in a minute, bro.”

Ocho Cinco's Critique: Ocho does not hold back in his assessment of Rodgers, labeling him as "arrogant, condescending" and questioning his adaptability and leadership. "Aaron Rodgers is an arrogant, condescending, flip it. He blames everyone. He takes no responsibility for himself."

Chad Johnson's Defense: Chad offers a contrasting view, acknowledging Rodgers' past achievements but critiques his current demeanor. "But when you had that kind of resume like Aaron Rodgers, when you had that kind of success for so long... there's a different type of grace."

Discussion on Team Needs: The hosts debate whether Rodgers can still influence a team's success given his personality and performance trends. They explore various hypothetical scenarios where Rodgers could fit or fall short within different team dynamics.

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4. Additional NFL Insights

Beyond the main topics, Ocho Cinco and Chad Johnson touch upon other NFL narratives, including:

• Giants' Struggles: Discussion about the Giants' competitive nature and their performance against the Cowboys on Thanksgiving.
• Cowboys vs. Commanders Game: A breakdown of the intense game dynamics, special teams’ impact, and pivotal plays that influenced the game's outcome.

Notable Quote:

• Chad Johnson [10:19]: “You can't let that linger like that. You can't even let that linger like that. Yeah, you know, you doing, you doing your thing. You doing your thing. Continue.”

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5. Final Thoughts and Reflections

The hosts wrap up the episode by reflecting on the broader themes of leadership, accountability, and the personal challenges athletes face both on and off the field. They emphasize the importance of resilience and adaptability in navigating professional sports' high-pressure environment.

Key Takeaway: Success in the NFL is not solely about individual talent but also about team dynamics, personal responsibility, and the ability to evolve amidst challenges.

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Conclusion

This episode of Club Shay Shay offers a comprehensive look into the complexities of managing personal and professional relationships within the high-stakes world of the NFL. Through candid discussions and insightful analysis, Ocho Cinco and Chad Johnson provide listeners with a nuanced understanding of the current landscape, making it a must-listen for any football enthusiast.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Ocho Cinco [05:03]: “Why would you do that to your... Why would you take something from anybody but your brother, your son?”
• Chad Johnson [20:12]: “Would you consider this a sophomore slump as a quarterback?”
• Ocho Cinco [38:53]: “The Jets could reportedly release Aaron Rodgers in season. Rodgers wants to play in 2025, but not with the Jets.”
• Chad Johnson [42:17]: “Aaron... you better focus and lock in because you're gonna be on the outside looking in a minute, bro.”

---

This detailed summary encapsulates the rich discussions and key insights shared in the episode, providing a clear and comprehensive overview for listeners and non-listeners alike.

Transcript

[Michael Lewis]

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[Ocho Cinco]

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[Ocho Cinco]

Brian Day Ball said he spoke to Malik Malik Neighbors after the red He's a very competitive individual. Again. You want to get the ball in his hands. And you got to do a better job of getting the ball in his hands early. He's a smart young guy that's very competitive. And again, when you lose like that, it's frustrating. But we've had good communication, as we always have. The Giants play on Thanksgiving against the Cowboys.

[Chad Johnson]

Don't talk me to death. Don't talk my head off. I'm about action, boss. I'm about action. We in week 11. We in week 12, whatever week it is, I'm about action.

[Ocho Cinco]

And we having a conversation about getting him the ball.

[Chad Johnson]

Show me. Show me, because you could tell me anything, and come game day, I get lost in the sauce again. Matter of fact, the first 15 plays of the game are scripted. Show me how much you love me. Show how much you really mean what you said to me about my rank. You know, don't. No, don't let me waste away. I know we losing. I know we having a bad season. Things aren't going the way we like.

[Ocho Cinco]

But look, we losing just the ball.

[Chad Johnson]

Let's give the Giants fans something they want. Let's give them a little entertainment, huh? Put the ball in my hands, man. It's pretty simple. We see what he can do when he get it. I know that much.

[Ocho Cinco]

Yes.

[Chad Johnson]

I know that much. We're seeing flashes of greatness from the young rookie every time he touches the ball. But for some reason, why not feed it to him? It's common sense. If there's going to be some type of shining light on the Giants organization, allowed to be a number one, I'm just. I'm based off without before.

[Ocho Cinco]

Oh, yeah. He's for sure number one. Ocho, just give him the ball. Let's throw it to him. But look, the Giant's not serious because, you know, I didn't know. Do you know how I know it's not serious? Because Drew Lock has been their backup. Ocho, how would you feel? You the backup. You the number two receiver to the X. X get hurt. They bring up somebody, they. And they bring. They bring your backup or somebody from the practice squad and put him in front of you.

[Chad Johnson]

I wonder what the reason for that was. I mean, honestly speaking, I would love to hear the truth behind that move.

[Ocho Cinco]

They ain't trying to win no game.

[Chad Johnson]

So I'm assuming you think without Dan Jones, did they think what you're saying?

[Ocho Cinco]

He might stumble into one. He might get hot, throw for 300 yards and win a cup. No, no, no, no. We're gonna be bad. We gonna get us a high draft pick. We Gonna sit right here where we are, and we gonna get the quarterback.

[Chad Johnson]

Wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Okay. I know the quarterback you're talking to. I think you're over there in Bowler.

[Michael Lewis]

Yeah.

[Ocho Cinco]

Who.

[Chad Johnson]

Who would have the number one pick right now?

[Ocho Cinco]

Probably Jacksonville.

[Chad Johnson]

Travis Hunter in Jacksonville. No, I don't like that. I don't like that. I don't like that.

[Ocho Cinco]

Well, that's right now. That's. That's. That's that.

[Chad Johnson]

Come up there and get him. I don't like. I don't like that, man.

[Ocho Cinco]

You know they ain't going to trade him. You know what? I might. Because the question is, can Travis Hunter, if you are using Travis Hunter, away from being competitive? Baker Mayfield Ocho, is reportedly suing his father and brother investment firm for $12 million. Baker alleges misuse of the funds between 2018 and 21, saying they diverted money without authorization to cover expenses. You see Ocho? You see Ocho now, see, if he crash out, he wrong. Why would you do that to your. Why would you do that to your. Why would you do that to anybody, Ocho? Why would you take something from anybody but your brother, your son?

[Chad Johnson]

Wait a minute, man. You know what the root of all evil is? It's always been money. What ruins families money. It always has. And it's always been that way. It's always been that way. You can't trust anyone around that kind of money. Hell, millions got thousands, hundreds of thousands. And you add million to the equation, absolutely nothing. They're not going to do right. Matter of fact, the people that do it for a living forget their investment firm. When it comes to investing, when it comes to earning and making money, it just happens all the time. You give people power of attorney and power to do things that they shouldn't be able to do with your money. Everyone always has a great idea when it comes to wait, make one. But it's not theirs. They always do. Well, it ain't my. So I'm gonna take the chance anyway. How many horror stories have you heard, man, during your era, from players? During my era, over and over.

[Ocho Cinco]

I hope they can get some money back. Man, that's a lot of money. Oo, hell, I've seen people do something bad to people for less. Yeah.

[Chad Johnson]

Oh, much less. And the funny thing about it, think about all these situations like this. When it comes to money being funneled out, you know, without a power of attorney, without the person actually knowing or willing, do they ever get that money back?

[Ocho Cinco]

I. I've never heard of somebody recovering A hundred. A hundred percent on the dollar.

[Chad Johnson]

Exactly.

[Ocho Cinco]

I mean, you might get. You might get 30, 40 cent on the dollar, but still, Ocho, man, 12, man, that's a lot of. First of all, 12 million. If they spent 12 million, that bank baker had to make 25 million because that's half. I don't understand people. I hope y'all understand that when you in the tax bracket, the BAKER Mayfield is $12 million. That mean he had to make 25 million. And it. That's why you got to be real careful. You got to be real careful even with family. I try, I try what I try to do. Oo I, I, me personally and I, I want what's best for my family, but I couldn't invest that. I couldn't invest that kind of money.

[Chad Johnson]

No, no, no, I'm not talking about Joe fan. I'm saying in general, I couldn't do, I couldn't do the same either. You have, you have to have an understanding what money does to people. Un. And if you have people in your family or people that you're dealing with in general, they do anything for a dollar, bro. If when it comes to the kind of money we was, we making, actually, the kind of money we making right now can't do anything if you got the wrong people in your corner. If you had the wrong people in your corner that would do anything for a. Do they do anything to you for that as well?

[Ocho Cinco]

Xavier Leggett said he's still not over his drop pass in the fourth quarter of yesterday's loss against the Chiefs. He said he texted Bryce Young last night saying he couldn't have placed the ball any better and he's going to make up, make that play up next time.

[Chad Johnson]

I like X, man. I like, I like, I like him. I like him. I like how much he's improved on that offense. Especially after my comments months early in the season about, you know, not having any weapons there and everybody over there just stepped up. Bryce Young has stepped up, obviously having the confidence that he needs to be at. Be at the. And be the quarterback and the leader of men, you know, in that Carolina Panthers team. And the receivers, they've stepped up, including, including X. So, you know, you drop the ball back to the drawing board, boy, move on.

[Ocho Cinco]

It happens, bro.

[Chad Johnson]

24 hour rule. There is a 24 hour rule. It's just like playing DB you get beat on the play, okay, boom, you let it go, you drop the ball.

[Ocho Cinco]

Nah, DB, you ain't got 24 hours. You gotta, you got 24 seconds.

[Chad Johnson]

Especially end game. But the fact that. The fact that he's still thinking about after the fact, you got to let that go because that's though. You can't even let that linger like that. You can't even let that linger like that. Yeah, you know, you doing, you doing your thing. You doing your thing. Continue.

[Ocho Cinco]

Yeah.

[Chad Johnson]

The bill on top, one after another.

[Ocho Cinco]

You don't want it to linger onto the next play. Right, right. You thinking about the play you didn't make. And here comes another play. You. You f that one up.

[Chad Johnson]

Yeah, it happened every time, bro.

[Ocho Cinco]

You got to have. If you play sports, you got to have amnesia.

[Chad Johnson]

Quick. Hey, real quick.

[Ocho Cinco]

I don't know what happened. I was gonna say, I know that they tight us up under there. Hey, bro. X. Hey bro. It happens. You're gonna probably drop some more. But just make sure you catch more than you drop and you'll be just fine. The Cowboys beat the Commanders to snap a five game losing streak by the score of 34 to 26 in the last 2 minutes and 49 seconds. There was a 99. There was a bobble kick return. Devonte Turpin. Devonte Turpin, excuse me, picks the ball up and goes 99 yards for a touchdown. Oh, that's the ball game. Nah, the commander says, not so fast. Jaden Daniel says, I believe I have one more miracle in me. And it might not be a hail Mary, but I got a pass for you. He finds. He finds McLaren ter McLaren, 86 yard touchdown. Oo we going to overtime. The kicker comes on the snapper. There's. Because here's the thing. OO people think it's just the pressure on the kicker. There's a pressure on the snapper and the holder.

[Chad Johnson]

Yeah.

[Ocho Cinco]

And you see it kind of threw his. It threw his timing off because the ball was a little low. And the holder, he bobbled a little bit and it wasn't even close. Reminded me, I remember thinking ocho, I was thinking to myself, you remember when the saints, they later lit the ball all the way down the field against Jacksonville, got the touchdown and then missed the pat that would have tied the game. Boy, that's a heart. That's a heartbreaking way losing game. You done all of that 86 yard. The crowd is in a frenzy. Your sideline is in a frenzy. And then it's just so anticlimactic that you shank with p. Now you come back in. Oo we go onside it. Dallas scoops the onside up and goes in.

[Chad Johnson]

I mean, you know what? But how, how do I say this? The snapper, the holder and the kicker, they go through the same routine constantly all week. All week. If it's repetition, repetition, repetition, repetition, repetition, repetition.

[Ocho Cinco]

Yeah.

[Chad Johnson]

And especially when it comes to a game like this where the game is on the line and it's on your hands and it's on your. And it's on your foot, you got one job. You got one job. The game of football is a game of interest. There there are very few plays, even out of 75, maybe one, two, maybe three plays at best, that makes a difference in the game. And when the opportunity comes, you have to take advantage of those opportunities. And tonight they missed the opportunity to give themselves a chance to win a game against a Cowboys team that has been playing bad.

[Ocho Cinco]

You could have buried. Huh? You would you win this game if, if, if Washington wins this game. They buried the Cowboys this season over. Ain't no coming back. You three and eight, you got six games to go. I believe your season is over because the Cowboys, they still got to go to Philly. I don't believe they're beating Philly in Philly.

[Chad Johnson]

No.

[Ocho Cinco]

So you could have ended the Cowboys season now. Yeah. But Jaden Daniels, prior to that last match, he had. He wasn't playing well. He wasn't seeing the field particularly well. Ocho. But I want to give the Cowboys D line some credit. They got after him for Diggy Zula.

[Chad Johnson]

Yeah, Michael.

[Ocho Cinco]

Yeah, they. They got after the defense was flying around the Rico Dido. They had a rush in the game. Look, it wasn't great. It wasn't great, but 19 carries, 86 yards, caught the ball extremely well and think it was a makeshift line. Your right guard is out, your left guard is out. They moved guiding, which was a great thing because all he does is hold, get penalties. And even when they brought his ass in, guess what he did. Ocho got you looking around like what I Ocho, you know what I hate? I wish I owned the video board. Soon as they throw a flag, I know they go, look, I'm going to cut the video board off. What you looking up there for? You know what the hell you did. You hell a man. That's why they threw a flag on your ass. They be looking up there talking about did it.

[Chad Johnson]

Yes, it was you.

[Ocho Cinco]

I'm like, damn, son. And he's talking about he don't know what that ain't know. Yes, it is. But give the Cowboys credit. Oo like I said, Cooper Rush did a great job. 24, 32, 47, 2 touchdowns. They ran the ball well enough to keep the Washington off balance where they just couldn't pin the pairs back. City had 10 for 67. Schoonmacher, I think that's his name, they just have three for 55. Called a 24 yard, 24 yard touchdown. But they had some guys that make some big time plays today and that's what you need to happen to go on the road and get that nasty taste out of their mouth. But those guys, hey, they got out to the quarterback, they hunted the quarterback today and they did a great job of that. They did a great job.

[Chad Johnson]

Now let me say when you look at the Cowboys the last, the last four weeks and you look at the Cowboys tonight, especially from a defensive standpoint, why in the hell they look like they did thing against a division opponent as opposed to not looking like that against everybody else they've been playing.

[Ocho Cinco]

Tell me.

[Chad Johnson]

So we both, I'm just curious, I'm sitting there, I'm watching the game at the cigar bar earlier and I'm like, I'm saying to myself well but God damn they show we is playing well. You know they playing well offensively. I'm talking about all three phases of the game, whether it be defense, whether it be offense. Hell, they was playing mother good on goddamn special teams. But you look like, you look like everybody else.

[Ocho Cinco]

They did especially at home because they've been down by 20 points or more in the last what, five, six home games. And a lot of those home games, the games haven't been close. The only game that was close this year is that they came back and they were down by 20 against Baltimore. All the other games that they've lost have been two score games. But the kicker, he missed a couple of days which is. And he's a very reliable kicker. He has, I mean he has leg out of this world. But other than that I thought defensively this was the best game defensively. I thought overall as an offense they played well, they ran the ball. Not great rushing numbers Ocho, but they ran the ball well enough to keep them off balance. Turpin, who's turned himself into the best returner in football and they got him out of the world. The USF was usfl. I think they got him out of the usfl, they got the kicker out of the XFL or the USFL whatever case may be. And these guys are all pro, that's turned into all pro players. But give the Cowboys credit guys see how easy it is if you play good, we talk about you, we say good things but when you play bad, I mean, what other choice do you have? Now I wonder if somebody's going to go on the IG and say, hey, call me on the phone to talk good about me. I'm just wondering, you think that's gonna happen, Ocho?

[Chad Johnson]

They gonna call you and tell you talk good about it?

[Ocho Cinco]

No.

[Chad Johnson]

Yeah.

[Ocho Cinco]

No, no. Tweet it? No, no. Go on ig, IG post and stuff like that. You think they're gonna say that? Oh, okay. Yeah.

[Unknown]

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[Michael Lewis]

Hey there, it's Michael Lewis, author of Going Infinite Moneyball, the Blind side and Liars Poker. On every season of my podcast against the Rules, I take a broad look at various characters in American life. The referee, the coach, the expert. My next season is all about fans and what the rise of sports betting is doing to them, to the teams, and even to my family. I'm heading to Las Vegas and New Jersey and beyond to understand America's newest form of legalized gambling. Listen to against the rules on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts.

[Ocho Cinco]

CJ Stroud steps out of the back of Enzo for safety as the Titans beat the Texans 3227. CJ Stroud performance was a mixed bag. He threw multiple touchdown passes for the first time since October 13th in almost over a month. But he also threw multiple interceptions for the second time in three weeks and was sacked four times. The Texans allow Will Lens to go 1823, 273. Two touchdowns big long touchdowns in December Houston Houston faces the Dolphins, the Chiefs and the Ravens who off off offenses can score in bunches. K Fair Barnes missed 28 yard field goal attempt in the fourth quarter mark just the first the fourth field goal 29 or fewer yards out of 159 attempts in NFL seat this season. Two of those four misses are by far dang.

[Chad Johnson]

Yeah O maybe it's just Talk to me now.

[Ocho Cinco]

What's wrong with cj? I don't know he's not playing.

[Chad Johnson]

You gonna have. You're gonna have laws now. Un. You know that, right? You know baseball players.

[Ocho Cinco]

Oo he hadn't played well this year. Oo this is not a low. How many interceptions does he have now?

[Chad Johnson]

What. What he got? You got eight, huh? Eight. Eight or seven? N. Okay, I'm off. I'm off by one.

[Ocho Cinco]

He got 14 touchdowns. Oo would you.

[Chad Johnson]

Would you. Would you consider. Would you consider this a soft mar.

[Ocho Cinco]

Okay, they played 12 games. He has 14 touchdowns.

[Chad Johnson]

You heard me. Would you consider this a sophomore slump as a quarterback?

[Ocho Cinco]

I don't know. I mean, I guess. Look, the thing that. That's most impressive that you about great players, Ocho, is that even when they get tape on you, you still have to account for. See, I was very fortunate. I played against Reggie White with three different team with three different regimes. I played him against him 92, and we circled them on the board. I played against him in 93. We circled them on the board. I played him in 96. We circled them on the board. I played him against. In the Super bowl in 97. We circled him on the board. You don't think they had Phil on Peyton, Brady, Mahomes, Lamar, and I get it. You know, Nico missed, what, four weeks?

[Chad Johnson]

The old line hasn't been playing well. It hasn't been playing well either. T.J. stroud been getting. He's been getting hit a lot at quarterback. Getting hit a lot.

[Ocho Cinco]

He just.

[Chad Johnson]

I think it's also something.

[Ocho Cinco]

Something's off. Something's off. I don't know if he's injured, but something is off. He just doesn't look as confident as he did last year. Now, the one thing that you can't do, you can't talk. Hey, you can talk about it, but you got to go out there and be about it. There have been a lot of great ones. There's been a lot of guys that's had one great season on Joe. Can you put them together? Can you do it back to back? Can you do it back?

[Chad Johnson]

Back to back?

[Ocho Cinco]

Can you do it for four years? Can you do it for five years? Can you do it for six years? How many. How many times you've seen guys go, have a great season, go to the Pro bowl, ojo be an All Pro.

[Chad Johnson]

He'Ll be able to put it back to back. But also, if you look at. If you look at the Texans in the entirety of the season up to this point and see why he's been throwing the interceptions, you know, his decision making is not as sharp as it was last year with the ball getting hit upside the head every time he dropped back, being rushed, not being able to go through his progressions. You know, missing Nico Collins, Diggs being out, you know, it's there, there, there are factors that are going in why the season's going the way it is so far this year for him. You know, from a statistical standpoint, why it doesn't look like it did, why it doesn't look like it did last year with the historic run he had as a rookie. I mean there have been some things that have happened so, you know, he hasn't been able to, he hasn't been able to overcome him.

[Ocho Cinco]

Me personally, me personally. Oo I think the digs is, is less because he's only been playing with him for three months. Nico Collins, that's the guy that he has the relationship with. That's the guy that helped him win offensive rookie of the year. That was the. Nico Collins was a Pro bowl player last year. He's a very talented young receiver. He's tremendous, can play through contact, can make tough contested catches. He's great run after the catch, he can get behind the team. Tank Dale is another one that's played that's really good. He only had three catches today and they didn't run the ball particularly well. They only had 17 attempts. But Gil, hey, Tennessee's defense is good now. They good now. Will lever sometimes put some in the arms.

[Chad Johnson]

He's turning the ball over a lot.

[Ocho Cinco]

But you see that pick six boy, I know the coach be wanting to put his foot in his ass. Yeah, I'm like, bro, everybody knows when they see you line up like that, if two people run in the slant, they know the first land is declared. The guy, he not gonna go, he gonna bait you. It's the same thing that got Brady winning the Super Bowl. Alpha offered, he I'm go, no, I'm not. I'm gonna go back and go.

[Chad Johnson]

Go get it. All right, go, go right number two.

[Ocho Cinco]

And you gonna hit, you gonna hit me right here. And if I catch it, I'm going to the house. But if you look at Simons and you look at some of those guys, man, they can get after your quarterback now. They can get out their quarterback, Harold Landry. They got, they got some really, really, really good, talented players on the defensive side of football. You look at one K guy, tight end, caught a pass, 70 yard touchdown. Westbrook caught a 38 yard touchdown. It was the big plays that was really killing the Texans. And Pollard you got him boxed up, you got him for a 4 or 5 yard loss. Somehow he comes out of that for a 27 yard game. How many times did it look like they had him behind the line? He's got out and he's getting first down, he's getting five, six, seven yards. You got to fit, you got to get the guy. It's not good enough to get there. You got to get the guy on the ground. I mean if you get, if you force a team to shoot the ball, the possession don't start, don't, doesn't end until you get the rebound. If you force them into a bad shot and they grab the rebound, what the hell have you done? Well, if you get there, you get, you got the guy hemmed up and you don't get him on the ground behind the line of scrimmage when you got an opportunity. What have you done?

[Chad Johnson]

Damn.

[Ocho Cinco]

Texas got to make a decision to Texas. Look at this division.

[Chad Johnson]

It's still up for grabs, ain't it?

[Ocho Cinco]

Well, yeah, if the coast can put something together. The Colts look, the Colts look, they played the Lions, they played the Lions and Richardson made some throws, but there are some throws that he missed. He had pierced wide open for a.

[Chad Johnson]

Touchdown and very inconsistent, huh? Very inconsistent. You know, when throwing the ball, whether it be short routes, intermediate routes, throwing stuff that is under under 12, under 12, under 12 and 5 and 6 yards and I'm talking about Unc throwing, throwing bullets. Like throwing bullets.

[Ocho Cinco]

No, he had learned to.

[Chad Johnson]

You can't throw everything, you know, you got. I, I call, I call it. I mean, listen, they used to say you got to be able to be a thrower of the ball. You got to be a throw of the ball. You know there, there are multiple, multiple ways you can throw it, man, to get it in there, make it a catchable ball all the time for your receivers. It doesn't everything don't have to be a goddamn bullet, man.

[Ocho Cinco]

Yes, the Texans offense in the second half OJo 54 yards, three points, four first down, never crossed midfield and 40% pressure rate allowed. Now you see teams believe now if we heat CJ up we can call them to problem.

[Chad Johnson]

When your office align is playing bad like that, you. You can heat them up and cause them some problems because bring a. Bringing heat last.

[Ocho Cinco]

Bringing heat last didn't work well. Well damn. How many offensive linemen did without now because it looked like the same offensive line. I mean Chad, am I off? So who, who do they lose offensive line wise? Hey, it's Ojo. It's okay to C.J. we can't. So let me ask you a question. So Daniel Jones, we're gonna put that on the offensive line.

[Chad Johnson]

Oh, they bad, too, boy. Yeah.

[Ocho Cinco]

Okay. We're gonna put that offensive line in the jets because we saw it with Darnold, we saw it with Zach Wilson. Now we see Red Rogers. So is that the line? So, because every time a quarterback plays bad, we can't keep blaming the line. We can't keep shaping the lane. Now, just. C.J. said it himself. He's not playing well.

[Chad Johnson]

He's not.

[Ocho Cinco]

I'm not saying the offensive line not adding to it, but we can't place all this.

[Chad Johnson]

I said CJ Stroud not playing well at all. But I said also the offensive line in their play and allowing CJ Stroud to continue to get hit. Matter of fact, let me ask you a question. I'm not sure what the stat is. What quarterback has been sacked the most in the NFL?

[Ocho Cinco]

Who's been sacked to watch this? Hell, Mahomes. Mahomes is up there, too. While you driving, did you see my home running for his life? I think he got sacked four or five times today. Caleb Williams is sacked the most. Then C.J.

[Chad Johnson]

Okay, he was C.J. second. Okay.

[Ocho Cinco]

Yeah. Where's Mahomes? Oh, they. They had Mahomes. Mahomes had to pick him up and put him down. No, Joe, you know, he got one long run every game.

[Chad Johnson]

Listen, you know. You know, you know what that is, right? So you don't want to hit the quarterback. You think he going out of bounds and everything? Instead of going out of bounds, he cut it up the field and keep on going.

[Ocho Cinco]

Hey, well, you gonna go out of bounds? Because I'm coming to knock hell out you. Cause if you remember, they. They find. Hold on. They. They. Somebody who did that. The guy was going out of bounds and the guy hit it and they called a personal foul. I said, so what you think I'm supposed to let him leisurely run out of bounds? I'm trying to knock the game, his block off.

[Chad Johnson]

The game is different. The game is different than the quarterbacks. Well, some quarterbacks, especially Mahomes, are taking advantage of the rules. Well, I know he not going to hit me, right? So I'm going to get on. I'm going to bend this corner and look like I'm going out of bounds and I'm going stay in and cut back in. Yeah, okay.

[Ocho Cinco]

Okay. Hey, but, yeah, look, it looks like they're gonna win this division. And guess what? When you win Your division. Guess what else, Ocho? You get a home playoff game, but if you're not careful, you'll be one and done. Yeah, you'll be one and done. Because any of those teams. Any of the teams, I mean. Because guess what? You might get Baltimore.

[Chad Johnson]

Yeah.

[Ocho Cinco]

Is that what you really want? Is that what you really want to show.

[Chad Johnson]

I don't exactly.

[Ocho Cinco]

You might get Pittsburgh. Is that what you want?

[Chad Johnson]

That either.

[Ocho Cinco]

Oh, Joe. The fans Demolish the Patriots 34 15. Jared Moyers and hot water for what he said after the game on the Patriot. Mistake in performance. Look at. Once those guys cross the white lines, there's nothing I can do for them.

[Chad Johnson]

Let me. Listen, it's not. It's not. Listen. You got, like.

[Ocho Cinco]

You can't say that, though.

[Chad Johnson]

You got Wednesday, you got Thursday, you got Friday, you got walk through. Saturday, you prepare. He's done everything again. You have meetings. You got meetings on top of meetings. You have a meeting about a meeting based on the team you plan. You don't watch film all goddamn week. He does everything that he can do to prepare you for the goddamn Dolphins all three phases of the game, offensively, defensively, and special teams. When Sunday comes at 1:00, there is nothing that Gerard Mayo can do for you, Athena. Prepare you for your team or that team all goddamn week. What you mean, he can't say that? That's exactly what he. I mean, he telling the truth. That's the problem.

[Ocho Cinco]

Ocho, it's okay. We know, we know that. But you can't say that. You the coach. You talking like you a fan or something. You can't say that. You're the coach.

[Chad Johnson]

Hey, hey, listen. He telling the truth, though. I know you. I know, I know you got to be PC. I know you have to say stuff like that, but, you know, it's very refreshing to hear coach tell the gu. Damn truth for a change. Yes, I, I, I, I just didn't. I can't do nothing for you. I can't do nothing for you.

[Ocho Cinco]

But when, when y'all didn't play well, you couldn't go out there and say, well, man, car.

[Chad Johnson]

Now you know, you know, you know, I'm not crossing that line. I wasn't in a position to be able to cross that line. But one, I was already the villain. I already told a line. I already pushed the envelope. Now I definitely open my mouth and say, no craziness like that. I know where to draw the line at.

[Ocho Cinco]

But there are times that your offense didn't play well or the defense didn't play well. Or maybe you guys weren't as prepared as you needed to be. You just bite the bullet, say we need to play better, we'll play better next week. Give that team credit. You know, they came, they executed better than we did, they took care of, they handled their business. But hey, we. We learn from it and we move forward. But there's something they're supposed to be. There supposed to be always something you could do to help your team, whether you can or you can't. You say there's something we knew. Do we need to do a better job of coaching them up? We got our play today. We got our coach today. But now we'll go back and look at the tape. We'll see what we did good, which wasn't much. There's things that we can improve upon, which is a lot. And we'll get better. That's what practice is for. We'll learn from the mistakes that we made. We'll coach them up better, they'll play better, and we'll be better from it. Oh, damn.

[Chad Johnson]

I sound like a coach, you know? You know, there's one thing I will say, one thing I can say for the Patriots, for the fans, for Gerard Mayo. They found a. They found a quarterback of the future, I can tell you that.

[Ocho Cinco]

Oh, yeah, for sure.

[Chad Johnson]

Hey, that goddamn Drake May boy. Boy, he nice. He the real deal. They found. They got their quarterback. I don't care what Gerard Mayo said today. There's one thing I know as a fan, as a Patriot fan, you can feel. You can feel good about your quarterback situation. All you got to do is build around him. You're going to be all right.

[Ocho Cinco]

Yeah, be right. I like it. I like it. Now. You got to get him some more weapons, though, O.J.

[Chad Johnson]

Oh, yeah.

[Ocho Cinco]

Oh, yeah. I'm surprised they didn't run the budget. Look, Miami is getting hot at the right time. Tour 29, 43, 17 four touchdowns. Clean game didn't turn it over. Jalen Waddle broke out of his slump. 8 4, buck 44, a touchdown. John New Smith, 9 for 87. A touchdown. Back to back week now. He got three touchdowns in the past two weeks. Devon H A Chan Hn A Chan Chan Hn 3 for 24. He only had 24 yards. Ocho two tubs, though. But I thought Tua threw the ball exceptionally well today. He did a great job. He only got sacked twice.

[Chad Johnson]

Hey, they got. They got to get my dog Cheetah going, man.

[Ocho Cinco]

I ain't letting cheaters.

[Chad Johnson]

Hey, they got to get My dog Cheetah going, man, they. They got. They got to do something. They got. Let's, man, put him in the backfield, put him at running back.

[Ocho Cinco]

I don't.

[Chad Johnson]

I don't know, man.

[Ocho Cinco]

Do something.

[Chad Johnson]

Do whatever you need to do. Mike McDaniels, you are very creative. You're a very creative coach. Yeah, but, man, we can't have a season like we had last year with Cheetah and then obviously we. Obviously we know goddamn two of miss games, but, man, nah, man, forget that, man. I'm trying to get. I'm trying to get Cheetah ball in any way possible, but I want to.

[Ocho Cinco]

Man, I want.

[Chad Johnson]

You got to keep young Bull happy over there, man, because you know what they do, they love to use instances like this where the numbers don't look like they did last year. And the first thing they talk about, well, we think you done lost a step. No, I did, but they just.

[Ocho Cinco]

They just gave a contract.

[Chad Johnson]

I understand that, you know. You know what they do to you after. Just give me your contract. That don't mean nothing. Understand this business and how this business works. You know that.

[Ocho Cinco]

Go ahead. Go ahead. Release me. I take my ass right back to Kansas City. That's the last thing. Do you want him back in Kansas City with. With.

[Chad Johnson]

With my home? Because you might well just put. Put a goddamn trophy on the mantle right now.

[Ocho Cinco]

Exactly. Because now you go have him worthy. You know, they just added a Tyquan Thornton to the. So now you got 4, 2, 1, you got 4, 2, 7, and you got 4, 2, 9.

[Chad Johnson]

That's nasty.

[Michael Lewis]

Hey there, it's Michael Lewis, author of Going Infinite, Moneyball, the Blind side and Liars Poker. On every season of my podcast, against the Rules, I take a broad look at various characters in American life. The referee, the coach, the expert. My next season is all about fans and what the rise of sports betting is doing to them, to the teams, and even to my family. I'm heading to Las Vegas and New Jersey and beyond to understand America's newest form of legalized gambling. Listen to against the rules on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

[Ocho Cinco]

The Chiefs escaped Carolina with the last second win. Tight end Noah Gray two touchdowns, which is the most yards of separation of Chiefs receiving a touchdown in the past two seasons. He was wide open. Needless to say, after weeks of carrying the offense, Steve Spagnol's crew hit a November low for consecutive week. KC defense allowed 325 plus yards. We knew it was going to happen. Oh, Joe, I'm. Look, I've been. I've been a part of a historic defense, but there are games that if we didn't play our absolute best offensively, we could have lost. That's what Kansas City had to do today. They turnovers. It probably would have cost. They probably would have lost the game. Mahomes was 27 to 37. 269, three touchdowns. Got sacked five times, though. Noah Gray, four catches, 66 yards, two touchdowns. Travis Kel, like, man, y'all over here doubling and tripling be. And he eating every week. He get a touch. He had two last. He got what? He had two today. Had one last. I think he had like two last week. He got about five or six touchdowns.

[Chad Johnson]

Hey, that's. That's. That's the Kelsey effect.

[Ocho Cinco]

I'm not. I'm not. But the offensive line, man. Man, it seems like. I don't know, maybe. Maybe it's my television, but it seems like every time Mahomes dropped back, he is like he is. Listen, that left me.

[Chad Johnson]

No disrespect, but the tackle play is very bad. Huh? The tackle play is very bad.

[Ocho Cinco]

I tell you what, if the 49ers. If the 49ers, let Dub go. Trip Tricky Dub, Kansas City better back to bring.

[Chad Johnson]

Even though they don't back it up, even at his age, he's still one of the best left tackle.

[Ocho Cinco]

He premier. He's still that boy. He's still him. I mean, because they tried. They tried. They tried to get him in free agency in Kansas City. You know, he's familiar. You know, he's familiar with Kyle. He played for Mike, so he's familiar with that situation. But I think. I think Ocho with an opportunity. He wants an opportunity. He wants to win. He wants to win that super bowl and Kansas City. As long as you got that quarterback and you got that coach, I think they're better positioned than the 49ers. That's just me personally, I could be wrong, but can you imagine him at left tackle protecting that blind side? The jets could reportedly release Aaron Rodgers the season. Oh, in season.

[Chad Johnson]

Say it again. Say it again.

[Ocho Cinco]

Repeat that again.

[Chad Johnson]

Rewind now. Rewind it again. Rewind it again. Go ahead, rewind it.

[Ocho Cinco]

Play. The jets could reportedly release Aaron Rogers in season. Rogers wants to play in 2025, but not with the Jets.

[Chad Johnson]

Timeout. Timeout, man. Timeout. Timeout. Hold on. Let me get my flag. Let me get my. Let me get my flag. It's a flag on the place. Let me Get a flag. All right, I got my flag. I know it. I know it's white, but we gonna pretend it's yellow. I just threw.

[Ocho Cinco]

Okay? I just.

[Chad Johnson]

I just threw the flag.

[Ocho Cinco]

Giving up.

[Chad Johnson]

Hold on, hold on. Okay, okay.

[Ocho Cinco]

Where is he going? What's the call?

[Chad Johnson]

You know what's funny? You know what's funny? When it comes to a quarterback like this, with a resume like this, even though the NFL is all about, what have you done for me lately? When Aaron Rodgers said, you know what? As desperate as teams are to have a quarterback, I wouldn't be surprised if he gets the opportunity after what he just said. If they do release him, if the jets do release him and start over as far as searching for a quarterback, Aaron Rodgers will get a job simply because of what he's done in the past. They gonna hold on to that. They gonna hold on to the. For how many. How many times? Mvp? Four. If I'm not four. She. Four. He's won a Super bowl, man.

[Ocho Cinco]

Diana Rossini. Diana Rossini, right? When she talks about the Jets.

[Chad Johnson]

Yeah.

[Ocho Cinco]

Let's listen to what she has to say. I'm told Johnson has lost confidence in Rogers ability to lead the team to the playoffs for the first time in 14 years. A drought that now stands as the longest in major North American professional sports league. There are some on the team who believe everyone is simply tiptoeing around the fact Rogers isn't the same player anymore. Some around the league say they won't be surprised if Rogers is cut in the season. As far as Rogers, his relationship with the owner has been strained for months. That's not a secret in the building or the locker room. At this point, after conversation with sources with the team and around the league, my understanding is Roger Stant still wants to play in 2025. I like it, just not with the Jets.

[Chad Johnson]

I like. I like it, but I don't like it. I like it, but I don't like it because I want to break down. I want. I want to break down the other 31 teams. There are many teams that don't even need a quarterback. What teams can Aaron Rodgers go to make a difference when you couldn't make a difference? When you're in New York, they gave you the players you wanted.

[Ocho Cinco]

They gave you everything you want.

[Chad Johnson]

Alizard, you got Bree Hall. I mean, come on now, what we doing?

[Ocho Cinco]

Remember OO last year? Remember last year they got a. What you call a final card for him.

[Chad Johnson]

And then. And if. If he is to go to a team, it has to be a Team where he doesn't have to do much because his supporting cast can hold him up. He can't go to a team that has less talent and make them better.

[Ocho Cinco]

He needs somebody to uplift him for the longest time.

[Chad Johnson]

Right.

[Ocho Cinco]

He could uplift other play of his teammates.

[Chad Johnson]

Time to change. Can no longer do that. So. But there's nowhere for him to go. Huh? There's nowhere for him to go. Like, if you think about it, it's nowhere for him to go. Where are you going?

[Ocho Cinco]

Tell me. So we both know.

[Chad Johnson]

I think. Listen, Aaron. Aaron. What? But you got. You better focus and lock in. You bet. You better focus and lock in because you're gonna be on the outside looking in a minute, bro.

[Ocho Cinco]

Football been stopped being important. Aaron Rodgers, y'all can feel what y'all want to say. Aaron Rodgers. Ben. And football was the last. Football gave him ability to have the cachet to talk about all the other stuff that he cared to talk about. Y'all know this. Y'all see it. Y'all see the man demeanor. Y'all see his behavior. Y'all saw the way he conducted himself. Football been stopped being important to Aaron Rodgers.

[Chad Johnson]

Yeah, he's one of the few. He's what he, you know, Aaron Rodgers has what most don't. Well, mostly all quarterbacks do. He has privilege. And he's one of the few. Not only does he have that privilege, he abuses that privilege and the power that he has because of what he's done in the NFL. He's one of the few that does it, you know?

[Ocho Cinco]

Yeah.

[Chad Johnson]

Nobody else would be able to get away with certain things. Can you imagine you. No, forget you. Because you. You follow the rules. I'm, let's say, me who bent the rules and always told the line no. And never crossed it. Can you imagine if I say, you know what? I'm not going to minicap. I'm going on a retreat because I already had planned.

[Ocho Cinco]

What?

[Chad Johnson]

Can you imagine?

[Ocho Cinco]

Yeah, I could. Hey, yeah, I can imagine. They defined your country. What the hell you talking about? That's what happened.

[Chad Johnson]

Hey.

[Ocho Cinco]

All I know is that Antonio Brown didn't go to a team meeting and they cut him. They had a meeting and had a walk through in the ballroom. He didn't show up and they cut it down.

[Chad Johnson]

Play. Certain people are. Are extended.

[Ocho Cinco]

But see, y'all see, y'all. Y'all get upset with me when I. When I. When I tell the truth. See, my thing is, I don't know why anybody would question because y'all see, I call it right down the middle. It doesn't matter if you're Aaron Rodgers, you're Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Lamar Jackson or Patrick Mahomes. If I think, if I see it, I'm just gonna be honest. I've been telling you guys for the longest, Aaron Rodgers is an arrogant, condescending, flip it. He blames everyone. He takes no responsibility on for himself. He's been that. He's always been that, but that he won mvp, so everybody overlooked it. Now he can no longer be an mvp. Everybody said what I've been saying for years.

[Chad Johnson]

Yeah, but you know, when you had that kind of. When you had that kind of resume like Aaron Rogers, when you had that kind of success for so long, you know, when you're a franchise quarterback like that, and when you're a Super bowl champion, you extended a different type of grace, especially at the quarterback.

[Ocho Cinco]

That's what you are.

[Chad Johnson]

That's there.

[Ocho Cinco]

Yes, absolutely, Abs. Absolutely.

[Chad Johnson]

Yes, sir.

[Ocho Cinco]

But I o. One of the things say, boy, if you not careful, you'll become the very thing you despise the most in a person. He despised the way Brett far treated him. Did he not turn around and become the parent thing he despised the most?

[Chad Johnson]

Yeah.

[Ocho Cinco]

Yeah. He went, lord have mercy. So y'all don't want to listen to me? Oh, talk like he. But see, I don't know what he talking about. See, y'all say talk a lot. Y'all don't really be saying I don't know what I'm talking about. Because when it comes to fruition, the first thing you so old Captain Obvious. Well, why didn't you say it if it was so obvious? You could have said it. Yeah, look how he got out of there. He didn't want to come to many camps. He wanted everything to be his way. Isn't that what Brett Favre. Isn't that why they got Brett Favre? Now, where did Brett Farb go when he left Green Bay? Tell the people. The New York Jets? Ocho tell the people. How long did Brett Farms stay in New York?

[Chad Johnson]

Hey, hold on, hold on. Where'd he go next? Where'd he go next? So are we saying that Aaron Rodgers is probably gonna beat him in Minnesota? I don't know how. And they just. They got JJ McCarthy.

[Ocho Cinco]

They got JJ McCarthy. Yeah. No. And he's already missed a year. You're not going to sit him back another year? No. And I've drafted a quarterback. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not. What is Aaron Rogers gonna do at Most he plays a year. And you think I'm gonna pass on a quarterback for a year? Are we sure he can elevate my team? The jets thought he could. How'd that work out for them? They gave up draft capital and they're worse off than they were when they had Rock, when they had Zach Wilson, when they had Sam Darnold, when they have whomever else they had at quarterback. Bro, you're not getting a Tom Brady. Indy, wait. You're not getting a.

[Chad Johnson]

Change his mindset. What if he changed his approach to the game or it's too late. It's too late.

[Ocho Cinco]

Can't he. Ocho how you do something for 20 years and you won MVP and you want to Super bowl, you change your mindset. Tom Brady couldn't change his mindset. If he could because he still had that underdog mentality. All he saw himself as accomplished as he was was a 6th round draft pick that nobody wanted. Until the 6th round. That's all he ever saw himself. He always felt, I got to go in and prove that I. I can make the. I gotta make the team. Even though after one super bowl, two super bowl, three super bowl, mvp. Mvp, mvp. Super Bowl, Super Bowl, Super Bowl, Super Bowl. I've got to prove it. Peyton Manning every year. Prove it. Prove it. Prove it. It's always been about him.

[Chad Johnson]

Damn.

[Ocho Cinco]

He's always been condescending. He's always been flippant. He's always been arrogant. He's always been aloof. You overlooked it because he's winning MVPs. Now he the same player. You don't. You don't change when you lose. You don't change. See, losing doesn't change who you are. It reveals who you are. That's what losing does. It reveals your. It don't build character. It reveals it.

[Chad Johnson]

It's like, just like, just like, just like anger and just like someone. Someone that drinks. Finally, you finally get to see some colors. When they're angry, they tell you how they really.

[Ocho Cinco]

And people like, oh, he got money, he changed. No, money doesn't change you. It makes you more of what you already are. You don't get money and become generous. You don't. That's always in you. You don't get money and become a jerk. You've always been a jerk, but you are a model because you didn't have the power and the money to be an asshole. So that's what money will allow you to do. People that have money and that are nice and respectful, they've always been that way I guarantee you, you go look at anybody and they'll tell you I don't need to call no name. But when they got money they say what they been that way. But if we on the same level how can I be a real jerk when we on the same level? But let me get a little advantage over you.

[Chad Johnson]

Hey, listen. Money, money, money does some strange things to people. It does, does strain. It's just. It does some strange strains. It's hard to remain yourself, you know, you get it. But if you are able to control it and don't allow it to control you, it's a beautiful thing, the volume.

[Michael Lewis]

Hey there, it's Michael Lewis, author of Going Infinite, Moneyball, the Blind side and Liars Poker. On the latest season of my podcast, against the Rules, I'm exploring what it means to be a sports fan in America and what the rise of sports betting is doing to our teams, our states and ourselves. Join me and listen to against the Rules on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your free iHeart app and search against the Rules. Listen to against the rules on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.