Nightcap - Hour 1: Bengals franchise tag Tee Higgins again, 49ers trade Deebo Samuel & more!

Summary

Club Shay Shay Episode Summary
Episode: Nightcap - Hour 1: Bengals franchise tag Tee Higgins again, 49ers trade Deebo Samuel & more!
Release Date: March 5, 2025

Introduction

In this episode of Club Shay Shay, NFL legend Shannon Sharpe engages with former players Chad Johnson (Ocho Cinco) and Pat Surtain II to delve deep into pressing NFL topics. The primary focus revolves around the Cincinnati Bengals' decision to franchise tag Tee Higgins for the second consecutive year and the recent trade of Deebo Samuel by the San Francisco 49ers to the Washington Commanders.

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1. Bengals Franchise Tag on Tee Higgins

The discussion kicks off with a heated analysis of the Bengals' choice to franchise tag Tee Higgins again, preventing him from entering free agency or entering the franchise market.

• Chad Johnson (Ocho Cinco) expresses skepticism about the Bengals' strategy:

  "You know, I'm not sure. I'm not sure even at this point and understanding the value that that T would get or what his value is right now on the open market..." [04:46]

• Geico Advertiser challenges the decision, emphasizing Higgins' performance and market value:

  "He only played 12 games, but he still had 10 touchdowns. He averaged like 75 yards a game receiving..." [06:10]

• The conversation highlights the tension between the Bengals' salary cap constraints and Higgins' escalating value, especially in comparison to teammates like Jamar Chase and Joe Burrow.

  "I need guaranteed money. I need, like, 75 million fully guaranteed the first year right now." [10:04]

Key Takeaways:

• The Bengals face a dilemma balancing their salary cap while retaining key players.
• Higgins' repeated franchise tagging signals potential dissatisfaction and uncertainty about long-term commitment.
• Comparisons are drawn to other high-performing teammates, questioning the team's overall strategy.

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2. 49ers Trade of Deebo Samuel to the Commanders

The episode shifts focus to the San Francisco 49ers' recent trade of standout wide receiver Deebo Samuel to the Washington Commanders.

• Geico Advertiser breaks down the trade details:

  "The 49ers have dealt Deebo S. to the Commanders in exchange for a fifth-round pick. Washington is taking on the remainder of Samuel's contract, paying his full $17.55 million salary in 2025." [35:25]

• Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson) discusses the impact on both teams:

  "They bring a dynamic playmaker like Deebo Samuel over to your offense... he can play in the side, he can go outside, he can put him in motion, he can put him in the backfield..." [36:07]

Key Takeaways:

• The trade signifies the Commanders' intent to bolster their offensive capabilities.
• For the 49ers, managing salary cap implications while acquiring draft picks is a strategic move.
• Deebo Samuel's versatility is seen as a valuable asset for Washington's offense.

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3. Analysis of Salary Cap and Player Contracts

A substantial portion of the discussion revolves around the NFL's salary cap, player valuations, and the broader implications for team financial strategies.

• Geico Advertiser points out the rising salaries of key players:

  "With Jamar Chase getting ready to be the highest-paid and reset the quarterback market... Hendrickson wants $30, Tee Higgins won't either." [08:03]

• Chad Johnson (Ocho Cinco) counters by emphasizing team sustainability:

  "This is still a business that has to be run... the Bengals have a franchise to run. This ain't Madden." [13:17]

• The debate underscores the challenges teams face in retaining star players without jeopardizing financial stability.

Key Takeaways:

• The escalating cost of top-tier players strains team budgets.
• Franchise tagging becomes a tool for teams to manage immediate needs while deferring long-term decisions.
• There's a tension between player expectations for lucrative contracts and team capabilities under the salary cap.

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4. Player Performance and Team Strategies

Further analysis delves into player performances, potential for future contracts, and strategic decisions by teams.

• Geico Advertiser highlights Tee Higgins' potential and past performance:

  "Tee Higgins follows up with 10 touchdowns and averages 75 yards receiving a game. If extrapolated over 17 games, we know what type of season..." [07:39]

• Chad Johnson (Ocho Cinco) discusses the importance of player value and free agency:

  "The franchise tag, you did it to me one year... listen, if you didn't want to pay him, you would have done it the first time." [05:59]

Key Takeaways:

• Consistent high performance by players like Higgins increases their market value.
• Teams must balance immediate performance needs with long-term financial and strategic planning.
• Franchise tagging is both a financial maneuver and a strategic uncertainty for players.

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5. Broader NFL Insights and Future Outlook

The conversation broadens to include insights into NFL dynamics, player market trends, and future expectations.

• Chad Johnson (Ocho Cinco) reflects on overarching NFL business practices:

  "When you wait till the last minute... you gotta have some foresight in order to see what this guy's a player for." [39:57]

• Discussion touches upon other team strategies, player insurance policies, and the impact of high-profile trades.

Key Takeaways:

• NFL teams employ a mix of strategic foresight and reactive maneuvers in contract negotiations.
• Player insurance and guaranteed contracts are becoming increasingly critical in negotiations.
• High-profile trades like Deebo Samuel's reflect broader trends in offensive and defensive strategies.

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Conclusion

This episode of Club Shay Shay offers an in-depth exploration of pivotal NFL issues, primarily focusing on the Cincinnati Bengals' handling of Tee Higgins and the San Francisco 49ers' trade of Deebo Samuel. Through incisive dialogue between Chad Johnson and Pat Surtain II, alongside insights from the Geico Advertiser, listeners gain a multifaceted understanding of the complexities surrounding player contracts, team strategies, and the ever-evolving landscape of the NFL.

Notable Quotes:

• "I need guaranteed money. I need, like, 75 million fully guaranteed the first year right now." — Geico Advertiser [10:04]
• "This is still a business that has to be run... the Bengals have a franchise to run. This ain't Madden." — Chad Johnson [13:17]
• "He only played 12 games, but he still had 10 touchdowns..." — Geico Advertiser [06:10]
• "The franchise tag, you did it to me one year... listen, if you didn't want to pay him, you would have done it the first time." — Chad Johnson [05:59]

Quote Attribution:

• Geico Advertiser: Representative providing analysis and commentary.
• Chad Johnson (Ocho Cinco): Former NFL player providing insider perspective.
• Pat Surtain II: Defensive player discussing personal experiences and team strategies.

Timestamp References: Highlights and key quotes are referenced with their corresponding timestamps for precise context as per the transcript.

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Note: Advertisements, intros, outros, and non-content segments have been excluded to focus solely on the substantive discussions relevant to the episode's main topics.

Transcript

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[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

You know, I'm not sure. I'm not sure even even at this point and understanding the value that that T would get or what his value is right now on the open market, I think the Bengals understand that. I think T understands that as well. Now also on the, on the, on the on the bright side of things, as. As a Bengal fan myself, true, die hard Bengal fan. I would love to see them keep, you know, keep the trio together. I would love to see them keep the band together. The salary cap went up, huh?

[Geico Advertiser]

I think it's like 279, right?

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

It's 279. But when I think about it, listen, Jamar Chase getting ready to be the highest paid and reset the quarterback market as far as contractually, so. I understand that. Then I'm not sure what they're going to do with Joe Burrow. Is he going to restructure in some sort of way to make wiggle room not only for just T. Higgins, but for Trey Henderson? For other.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

For other.

[Geico Advertiser]

He see the. Oh, he see the market. He got 17 and a half sacks for the last two seasons.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Yeah. You ain't got to tell me. I know, I know. So, boom. What's going. What's going to happen? What's more important? Where are the needs that need to be met for us as a team? I know fans want to say, bring tea back. I love T. But I also understand what T can get. I understand his value.

[Geico Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

On the open market. Now, obviously the franchise tag, you did it. You did it to me one year. Now when you do it to me one year, basically you're telling me, listen, we don't really see the value in you and give me a contract long term. So we're going to do.

[Geico Advertiser]

Is that means they're betting against you. Yeah, they're better than you. Please. Because if you thought. If you thought I was what I. If you. If you think of me, what I think of me, you give me the deal.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

I mean, it wouldn't be no questions asked, huh? The deal would have got done last year and now double back come this year again, T. Higgins, great year. Big game, Stepped up.

[Geico Advertiser]

Yeah, he only played 12. I think he only played 12 games, Ocho, but he still had 10 touchdowns. He averaged like 75. Like 75 yards a game receiving. So if you extrapolate that over the full 17 games, we know what type of season he would have, even with Chase doing what he did. And that's the problem, that you run into Ojo when you keep pushing the cans down the road, okay? You push, you kick Jamar Chase can down the road, he gets the triple crown. Okay? You wouldn't do anything with Hendrickson now, he led the league in sacks back to back season, which he's had 17 and a half. Okay, you franchise tag T. Higgins now, he follows that up and he's like, y'all gotta pay me. Because I see Jalen Waddle with years left on his contract. Got 28. Y'all mean to tell me I'm at the end of my contract and y'all think Franchising me at 26 is good? No, I need guaranteed money. I need, like, 75 million fully guaranteed the first year right now. We can talk.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

I'm. I'm curious. Normally, most of the time, teams use the franchise tag to their advantage, not only to lock a player up, but when you do it for a second year. I'm trying to buy myself some time.

[Geico Advertiser]

I'm betting against you. I'm betting that you won't have another year like that, because what good is it if he has another year like that? Maybe you want a suit bow and say, well, we got a Super bowl out there. We can let him go. Right?

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

That's.

[Geico Advertiser]

That's. Cause at some point in time, if you're drafting the type of player that you believe you are, you're gonna. You're not gonna be able to keep them all with you, right? It's just. It's just. Is impractical. You're not going to be able to keep Chase at 40. You're not going to keep Joe at 55. You're not going to be able to get hendrickson. He wants 30. T. Higgins won't. 30. Excuse me.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

There you go.

[Geico Advertiser]

You're good at that. At that number. Now they got a little bit more cap space. They waved out Alex Kappa, the guard. I guess he had a bad year. I mean, looking at it, he gave it most sags, most pressures, most hurries. So it was. It was. It was pretty bad. Jamar Chase posted this cryptic treat of Joe Burrow on Instagram. What? @ T. Higgins, if you can see it on your screen, he, like, again.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Listen, even the players as fans. Fans and Bengal fans, they always come to. They don't understand the difference in how the players feel from the business side of things, as opposed to how the fans feel. The fans think, oh, it's so easy. The cap is going up. They're going to sign everybody. Listen, if you look at the reactions, you look at the reactions from T, you look at the reactions from Jamar Chase, it tells you that things aren't as sweet as you think on the outside looking in, regardless to how the cap numbers have gone up, because you have to think, the Bengals have a franchise to run. This ain't they just not think about now. They're thinking about the foreseeable Future, you know, when it comes to their books.

[Geico Advertiser]

Well, guarantee. I want long term guaranteed money.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Yeah, well, listen, they. They got. They got till July to get it done. They got to July to get it done. Now, me, as much as I want you to stay, I love tea. I love my Bengals. I love the organization. Matter of fact, I love the fans that argue with me back and forth. Zim, who they. I know you probably don't see this. I love you, too, and everybody else, but I just don't see it happening. Based on what T is deserving of and what Chase is going to be.

[Geico Advertiser]

Chase going north of 40.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

It's it. Oh, yes. He's resetting the market. Huh?

[Geico Advertiser]

He going north for 40.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

He's resetting the market for the simple fact. You made. You made me wait.

[Geico Advertiser]

You said, I'll tell you what. Y'all like that? 26.2. Give me that in guarantee money. Give me 80 million fully guaranteed, and then y'all can put it however you want to. But I need to make. I need to make. I need to make 80 million. I need to make 80 million in the first three years.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Yeah, we good.

[Geico Advertiser]

I need to make 80 million. Give me 80. Give me $80 million signing bonus, and then I'll play. The first year I played for like, 1.2. Then I play for 5 million, and the next year I play for 10.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Yeah, since.

[Geico Advertiser]

Since y'all say 26 million, everybody. Okay, just go ahead and give me that.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Yeah. And give. Give me a nice lump sum in.

[Geico Advertiser]

Give me. Give me seven. Give me 70 million. Society bonus. Give me some security.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Now. I need my little. I need my nest egg in case something happened. Just in case. Because I ain't going to lose.

[Geico Advertiser]

Well, hey, if I. If I'm Chase. Chase say y'all maybe take this ten million dollar insurance policy. I'm gonna factor that in when y'all negotiate. So y'all gonna give me that back on top if I have to take out another at some point in time.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Hey, listen.

[Geico Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Game is the game, Monk. This is the football. And this is why I wouldn't want. I wouldn't want to be owner. I wouldn't want to be a GM I wouldn't want to be in a position of Katie Blackburn, Mike Brown, Troy Blackburn, in a situation like this, with a team this great, with players this great, and it's time to take. I. I just.

[Geico Advertiser]

You have to be ahead of the curve. Do you believe T. Higgins? Let me ask you a question. Do you believe Chase in the next three to five years, Will not be a top three receiver if you don't. If you believe he'll be a top three receiver, you signed him last year because you're paying him based on what you believe he's going to do moving forward, not what he's done in the past, because I've already paid you for that. So if I give you 35, $36 million, that's because I believe you're going to be a top three receiver. And in two years, this money be obsolete. Now I got you for another two years, Ocho, at 36 million, when the goal race from probably be 42, 43 million. See, that's what you have to do. You have to. Like a lot of times, Ocho, you have to buy something. Like, man, look here what people look, what if you were doing investments, people buy gold, people buy commodities based on believe they're going to go higher. So at this price, although it seems steep, I buy for a little when it moves up. Now I got it. And that's how you have to look at these players. Michael park, do you. Okay, you saw Michael was defensive rookie of the year and he's been in the mv, the defensive player of the year discussion. Why we wait until this man get all the way to the end of his contract before we think about doing a long term deal? All you did was let the price.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Keep going up higher.

[Geico Advertiser]

Yesterday's price is not today's price.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

It definitely is. Definitely not. It's definitely not. And I listen, I want, I want to get. I want them to, to work things out. But I also understand how the business side of things work. Everybody yelling about the cap, the cap going up, the cap being high. Have the Bangles ever been all the way up to the cap? So let's start there. Have they, you know, we screaming, oh, the cap is going. Is this is that. I mean, listen, this is still a business that has to be run. This ain't. This ain't Madden. This is.

[Geico Advertiser]

You see what Howie Roseman does? You see what he did? You see what he did with Devonte? You see what he did with you, A.J. you see what he did with Hertz?

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Got him early.

[Geico Advertiser]

And what he did is that he's like, okay, Saquon, we'll give you this. If you get these incentives, not only will you get them for this year, it'll automatically go onto your contract next year. So that 1.5, 1.750. So now Saquon's gonna make almost $14 million hits. Those numbers next year. Guess what? That third year, the contract. Now there's a chance he goes out and has another year. I'm not saying he's Gonna go for 2000, but has another good year. Howie might say, you know what? To keep that cap number down. Let's go ahead and get. Add a couple more years to it.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Give you nice signing bonus.

[Geico Advertiser]

That's, that's how you have to do it, Ojo. You have to have some forward thinking.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Yeah.

[Geico Advertiser]

Because if you wait till like, I don't know, I don't know, by the time you realize the guy's good, it's going to be cost prohibitive for you to sign your players.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Well, listen, the, the guys we talk about, there's nothing to realize. You know what they do because the film, the film don't laugh. They did it in college. They got to the NFL and they kept on doing it. They ain't missed the beat. I'm talking about Chase. I'm not sure why he didn't pay him last year. There was nothing wrong with T understanding what you got, you know, for the foreseeable future. We talk about two top one, one top three player and we have another one that arguably could be in the top 10. You know, as what I like to call a 1B. I don't, I don't see T has no. 2. That's just me. Because anywhere else on any other team, Tegan would be a number one. But anyway, that's neither here nor there. I hope they get to.

[Pat Surtain II]

I hope they get.

[Geico Advertiser]

The Eagles are going to release six time Pro bowl corner Darius Slay after five seasons with the teams the Eagles initially acquired Slave via trade with Detroit in the 2020, immediately signing the quarterback to a three year extension. Slade 34 is coming out one of his best seasons of his career. He allowed a 42 completion rate, allowed 5.4 yards per target, had 15 pass breakups are all his best marks since joining the Eagles. In 2024, the Eagles allowed a league low 174 yards passing per game, the lowest by franchise since the 2000. Since 2000. Who is that? Tennessee since at least 2000. I think Tennessee, I think they beat the Ravens that year because we at. We allowed. The Ravens allowed 60 like 60 something yards rushing but I think they average like gave up 260 yards. Tennessee actually statistically had a better. Oh, oh, you talk about that was the. What you call them, the Phil Eagles franchise. Oh, I thought it was talking about the lowest since 2000 by any franchise. Okay. Because I know Tennessee passed defense in 2000. They were they only gave up 242 yards a game. Can you see what Tennessee gave up that year? So, Ocho. But he always said that if he didn't finish his career in the in Philly, he would love to go back to Detroit. Detroit was an original team. Obviously, he has some issues with Matt Patricia, who's now the defensive coordinator at Ohio State. Hey, he goes to Philly, has a great, you know, go to two. They went to a bunch of Pro Bowls. They went to two Super Bowls. They won this past one. So could you see him going back to Detroit?

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

I think so. I think so. Why not? Especially with what happened from an injury standpoint to the Detroit Lions to on the back half of the season. I like it. I like it. And I'm also trying to think about why not running back with as well as he played last year with the Eagles. But I can't even talk about Jeffrey Lurie and Harry Rose. And when it comes to their decision making. Keon Mitchell, obviously, they're now passing the tour.

[Geico Advertiser]

He's on one side. They passed the. The keys to Cooper Dijon. See rookie. Oh, he ready. He ready to be a starter.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Now, listen, listen, honestly, he played well, right? He played very well, but he played well based on everything else going on around him. Is he actually ready after his rookie season, despite them winning the super bowl, to be in that. In that spot like that where you got to see the number one receiver at times? You. You have to see maybe the number two receiver. Is he ready?

[Geico Advertiser]

Can't keep everybody, Ocho. I mean, what you gonna do with Braun? You gonna pay him? He gonna want a king's ransom. Okay, Sweat.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Nice. Coming, coming.

[Geico Advertiser]

What about. You got two D linemen that could potentially leave. You got Jalen Carter coming up now. Hey, he gonna want a king's ransom. Will be coming down the pipeline. O Joe. He gonna want a king's ransom.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Hey.

[Geico Advertiser]

No, I. I understand, you know, the chat saying they gonna keep the John at a nickel. Yeah, they're gonna put him at corner and then. And guess what? They're gonna start him at corner and then when they go three, six, he gonna bump inside the nickel.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

But then who. Who gonna be the other. Who's gonna be the other corner? Hey, listen, playing on the outside and playing a nickel, but that's a different ball game, baby. That's.

[Geico Advertiser]

They drafted that man to play corner. They found out that he's really good at the nickel, and so guess what? They put him inside. They'll put him inside a situation, and they'll bring somebody else out. It'd be the same. You remember how. What's the guy's name? Ocho. He ended up going to Tennessee. He ended up going to Tennessee from the Kansas City. The db.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Oh, Ladarian.

[Geico Advertiser]

Yep. What did they do? They drafted a corner. Sneed was really good. They. They put him. They put him inside. What did they do after the season? They ended up signing, trading him. And now you got Watson and you got McDuffie. See, y'all just look at some fans. Y'all gotta stop looking. That's not how teams look at it. They draft the guy at corner, okay? Damn. And they got a slave's getting a little older. At 34 years of age, that's little old for a corner, but he played extremely well. Now maybe, maybe it's a situation that, you know, they come back, I would go test the market now if I couldn't find something suitable. If I go, if I gotta play for 3 million, I'll play for 3 million in Philly. I ain't gonna play for 3 million. Cause I know we gonna win. But at least let me go kick the tire somewhere else because somebody else might have some money for me. Ocho.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Hey, that's.

[Geico Advertiser]

That's.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

That's t. That's T. Do you understand? And I mean no disrespect to my fans in Cincinnati. I love you, every last one of you. Do you understand what T's gonna make if he get on the open market? Oh, come on, man. He deserving of that. He worked too hard. You hear me? Think about the sacrifices you just told me about that you went through to even touch the field. What you think he got a story? He's got a story on how we want that sense of security. Allow him to see it because you didn't believe in him year before. You know what? I want you to prove it to him. We gonna tag you. We go tag you. Because we don't value giving you a long term contract. We don't. Because if you did value me and you thought of what you think of how I think about myself as a player and as a receiver, there would have been no issue paying me. Now you tag me again two years in a row. What does that mean?

[Geico Advertiser]

But see, oo, that's the Players Association. You agreed to that.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Well, listen, you have to understand, when it comes to the franchise tag, you got 2100 seven players. Let the. Stay with me real quick now. Chat. Y'all stay with me real quick. You got 2100 20, maybe 2200 players. When it comes to the franchise tag, we talk about, it only happens maybe to six to eight players. Six to eight? No, no more than eight. No, no more than eight. Now, actually, going in the fight for something for such a small percentage of players, that is required. That's where it's used, you know, year in, year in, a year out. Do you really want to fight for something like that? Because sometimes it's that advantage for the players and for the team as well, sometimes buying you a little bit more time so we can get a deal done. Now, in this case, when it comes to T, I don't like the way they're taking advantage of him, because if you didn't want. If you wanted to pay him, he would have done it the first time. Listen, don't do it to me again.

[Geico Advertiser]

But that's. That's where you have to be unselfish, because a lot of times, for the very reason. I remember when they first started talking about lifetime benefits, there were a lot of prominent guys, and I'm not gonna call their name. Give me a million dollars, and I'll buy my own health insurance. How'd that work out for them? The same thing you just said. There are so few guys that say, man, I'm never gonna get the franchise tag until they get the franchise tag.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Right, right.

[Geico Advertiser]

And now look at you. At some point in time, Ocho, Kurt Flood, he never benefited from free agency. He lost. He basically lost his career. So everybody else got free agency. Spencer Haywood.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Right.

[Geico Advertiser]

Sometimes you have to sacrifice. There are a lot of people that sacrifice for the greater good, even though they weren't there to reap the benefits. A Dr. King, a Malcolm X, so many other freedom fighters. A lot of people sacrifice that didn't get the benefit of the sacrifice. That's what sacrifice means.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

I like that. I like the way you put that. I like.

[Geico Advertiser]

So now, okay, I tell you what. Y'all want two franchise tags. We want lifetime health benefits. Or you get one franchise tag, but you can't franchise again. I got. I. I need. You know, I already gave you a bigger concession. Now you get a bigger piece of the pie. Owners, I got to claw something back.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Right? Right.

[Geico Advertiser]

Lifetime health benefits. Well, we got to do away with the franchise tag.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Yes. One or the other.

[Geico Advertiser]

And. Or even if we don't get lifetime, I need at least 10, 15 years. What is Ocho? If the average NFL career is three years, so the average NFL player coming in at 22, 23. So that means a vested player with three years, he's done at 25, 26. Ocho, he get five years of health benefits at 31, he's done.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Yeah.

[Geico Advertiser]

Hopefully if the average life expectancy, if someone is like 75 years, so he got another 40 plus years. But the guys don't think like that. Ocho, that money coming in so good, and you like, hey, I'm gonna be able. But when you don't have money coming in and you have it going out and you get. If you get a serious injury, you get a. A form of cancer, you get a treatment, it'll wipe your savings out. Just like that.

[Pat Surtain II]

Just like that.

[Geico Advertiser]

And with the. The price of the surgeries and the price of the medicine, some medicine costing you 10, 15, 20,000amonth.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Especially now. Especially now. Hey. Oh, my God. Just.

[Geico Advertiser]

Yes.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Do you have. How much you say?

[Geico Advertiser]

Some of it's like 10, 15, 20,000amonth. Some of them cancer drugs.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Jesus. My goodness.

[Geico Advertiser]

I mean, look at. I mean, insulin. Look at insulin. What's the insulin cost you? And people need two, three injections a day.

[Nate Thompson]

Julie.

[Julie Stewart-Banks]

It's Julie Stewart Banks. I'm doing a new podcast from iHeart Podcasts and the National Hockey League, and I'm paired up with one of my favorite players, the always quotable Nate Thompson.

[Nate Thompson]

I wore nine NHL sweaters, and I have story after story to share. And believe it or not, I have plenty to say, and not just about hockey.

[Julie Stewart-Banks]

Believe me, he does. Energy Line with Nate. And JSB is the name of the podcast, and it's gonna be. Well, it's gonna be quite the ride. We're officially line mates, Nate. We're the energy line.

[Nate Thompson]

We'll have plenty of folks join us. Current players, some of my former teammates, hall of Famers, and wait till you see some of the connections that Julie has. She has quite the Rolodex.

[Julie Stewart-Banks]

Okay. We'll lean into Nate's playing experience and tap into our interests away from hockey and try to do what energy lines are supposed to do. Provide an emotional boost. How do you feel about all that, Nate?

[Nate Thompson]

I'm vibing. Julie. I'm ready to roll.

[Julie Stewart-Banks]

Listen to Energy Line with Nate and jsb on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Geico Advertiser]

Travis Hunter says him playing both sides of the football is more difficult than Shohei Otani hitting and pitching in baseball. Let's take a listen to what Trav had to say.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Probably me, what I do in football, because it's a lot on your body. You know, Tony, he's a great player, but you got to do A lot in football.

[Geico Advertiser]

Ain'T close.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Hey, listen. Completely different sides of the spectrum, boy. Hey, Trav, I know you're gonna see this, but until you can get in that cage. You hear me? Just the batting cage. I don't even want no real picture. Just the machine. Tell him to turn it up to 90 to 95 miles per hour. Let me see you hit it. Just a fastball. I ain't talking about no slider. I ain't talking about no curve. I ain't talking about no sinker.

[Geico Advertiser]

Ain't no talking about no change up. Ain't talking about no cut. Fastball, just straight.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

The most difficult thing to do in this world is hit a baseball coming at you. Just a fastball. That's it. Just a fastball. As difficult as the game of football is, and I love you, you're an exceptional talent. Yes, but it's not even comparable.

[Geico Advertiser]

But if you think about it, we can only.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Comparable.

[Geico Advertiser]

Ocho, man, we can only track two players in major league history. No. To play baseball, pitch and hit. Oh, we're talking about Babe Ruth, and we're talking about Shohei Ohtani.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Yes, sir.

[Geico Advertiser]

Troy Brown. We saw Troy. We saw Troy Brown do that with the Patriots. Play offensive defense.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Yeah.

[Geico Advertiser]

Brian Jordan did it. Time did it. Do you see the level? Shohei Ohtani is the best player in baseball.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

That's different.

[Geico Advertiser]

He could be a number one starter on your. For your pitching staff. And a slugger. He the best hitter in baseball. He can hit for average, hit for power. He can run the base. Trav, I love you, bro. But the hardest thing to do. And I've talked to a lot of guys that did. But I. I talked to both.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Yeah.

[Geico Advertiser]

Both say the hardest thing to do here in baseball. I talked to Time. Now we talk about two of the greatest athletes to have ever played. You name a sport. Bow and Time are two. Are two of the top five. Okay? If you want Jim Thorpe or whomever else you want to put into this equation. But I tell you this. Bo Jackson and Time or two or the top five athletes that we've ever seen.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Yeah.

[Geico Advertiser]

And both of those guys told me, say hitting the baseball is the hardest thing to do.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Very difficult. Very difficult. Very.

[Geico Advertiser]

And to do it at that level. Now, we gonna have. We gonna see you, Trav. Come in now, Ocho.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Yeah.

[Geico Advertiser]

We've seen Shell Ohtani at the highest level. Do it.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Yeah.

[Geico Advertiser]

And be an all Star and be an mvp. Now, Trav, you have to get one of them all stars. You have to get to the Pro Bowl.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Now, yeah.

[Geico Advertiser]

To match this.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

There's a chance he could do it. There's a chance he could do it is rookie year, especially for sure. The last. Listen, the last rookie. The last.

[Geico Advertiser]

As a DB or a wide receiver.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

He. Last wide receiver I came, I heard. Come out with this kind of confidence and say some of the things he's saying and live up to everything he's saying with Jamar Chase, you know, it wasn't outlandish or something like this, but I'm just saying confidence. The confidence that Travis Hunter has with. Hell, Jamar Chase said, I'm coming into the league and I've got drafted by the Bangles and we're coming out and I'm breaking every. Every record. He lie and he ain't lying. He stood on business about everything he said and meant it. And Travis Hunter had that same type of cache and same type of confidence. That's why I believe there's a chance he can do it. He can do it.

[Geico Advertiser]

Because now I'm not saying he can't. I'm not saying that he. He can't. He can't do both. He's not gonna do the. He's not gonna put the number of plays in that he did in college.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

That's difficult. That's difficult. Hey, he. He'd have to have the condition of. Of. Of a15,000. I'm trying to think what's the. What's the longest. Longest distance race at the Olympics and the. The kind of.

[Geico Advertiser]

The marathon.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Yeah. The kind of win and lung capacity you need to do something like that At. At that street extreme level. It. That's. It's too much.

[Geico Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

I'm just thinking about exerting that kind of energy, messing around with. With.

[Julie Stewart-Banks]

With.

[Geico Advertiser]

With.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

With. With Ike Taylor and. And re. And just. And then being tired. I'm thinking about a 12, 13 play drive.

[Geico Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

And now we. We kick a field goal. Now we come back. Now I'm on defense. Man. Man, stop.

[Geico Advertiser]

Is different. And he's gonna find out there are guys that are closer to his skill set than he previously thought. That's the thing about the NFL, Ocho. You find guys that. Hold on, man. I used to be able to do this. I get. But wait a minute. Damn. Why are you still here?

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Yeah. At that point, the only thing that separates you is your technique. Yeah. Only thing.

[Geico Advertiser]

It's gonna be interesting to see because, you know, even no matter who you think is not a really good receiver.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Right.

[Geico Advertiser]

They were probably better than the receiver that he went against. That's the thing about it, people don't realize like how good the guy you say that's a bum or you don't think he's good. People don't realize how good they actually are, Joe.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

All right. Yeah, yeah. Look who they playing against.

[Geico Advertiser]

They play against guys that make them look like that, right? It's just like those guys that you see. Ah, that guy on the bench. You don't never get in the game, okay? Go down to the Y and play one on one and watch what he do to you. Go to Lifetime and watch what he do to you.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Put you in a blender. Put you in it. Put you in a blender.

[Geico Advertiser]

People don't realize, like pros, like guys that, that they get paid to do this.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Huh?

[Geico Advertiser]

Man, please. You underestimate the jokers, man. You don't. You can't do that just. Cause because the level, I mean, you look at a LeBron and a guy might be the 13th and 14th guy you like, but that guy. Yeah, and this is what I was telling somebody. The guy that you think is the 13th or the 14th guy on the bench, that guy is closer to LeBron than you are to the 13th or the 14th Guy on the bench. Think about what I just said, Ocho. The 13th or 14th guy on the bench is closer to LeBron than what the guy sitting at home talking issues to the 13, 14 guy on the bench.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

I got. Yeah, I got you. I got you. Simply because the guy, the fact that he's on the bench, I mean, we, we'll leave it at that. He's actually.

[Geico Advertiser]

Oh. Cause he on the bench. Okay. Oh, okay. But I'll make you see. Look, I said this, I thought DB because I think he's more sound as a DB than he is as a wide receiver. I think, I think he out athletic. His athleticism, it gets him about a lot of stuff. Now, not to say that he can't find fine tune and get some nuances of the receiver, but I think right now you can just drop him in right now Ocho at DB and he understand, having been coached by time. I think he has a great. His timing, his ball skills are really, really good. And for him to be like long legged. Yeah, he can transition really well. He can get in and out of breaks really well. Yeah, he tracks the ball. Exceptional. Great hands. You know, he got great hands on your. Cause he's a wide receiver, so, you know, he got great hands. And for him, it's just not good enough for him to knock the ball down. He's Trying to take the ball away.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

And take it and go the other.

[Geico Advertiser]

Way with it at that stance. The big news of the weekend, Ocho. The 49ers have dealt Debo Samuels to the Commanders in exchange for a fifth round pick. As a part of the trade, Washington is taking on the remainder of Samuel's contract, paying his full 17.55 million salary in 2025 due to. Do the Commanders not have the most dangerous offensive core? They have Jaden Daniels at quarterback, who was offensive rookie of the year Brian Robinson Jr. Running back, scary Terry McLaurin. They have Debo Samuels and Zach Ert. They also have a dynamic Naomi Brown.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Yeah, listen, they've improved. They've improved tremendously. I mean, hell, they were an NFC championship, huh? Yeah, they were in the NFC championship last year. And then you bring a dynamic playmaker like Deebo Samuels over to your offense again, and what does it do for your quarterback? It takes pressure off your quarterback again. Even more pressure. I don't have to do more. What do you mean? We got Deebo Samuels. You know how many things he can do? He's a little Swiss army knife. He can play in the side. He can go outside. You can put him in motion. You can put him in the backfield. You can do so much with him, you know, so it. It, it. As long as the creativity is there. I'm not sure who the offensive coordinator.

[Geico Advertiser]

Is, but the Kingsbury.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Oh, it's Cliff. Oh, man. Oh, man. They straight. They straight. Listen, Clingberry ain't no different than McVeigh. Clingberry ain't no different than Andy Reid. I'm just saying from a creative standpoint and knowing what to do and using your players to their strengths. So they gonna be fine. Oh, they definitely gonna be fine. I mean, but what the 49ers gonna do now they talk about letting. Trading BRANDON NYUK, too.

[Geico Advertiser]

17.5. 17 million. So they traded the fifth round for him, and the Cowboys traded the fourth round of Flamingo. Oh, my bad. What you think of Ocho?

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Jerry Jones?

[Geico Advertiser]

No, they do not have Ocho. Do the Commanders have the most dangerous? No.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Did they? No, no, no, no, no, no.

[Geico Advertiser]

Did Saquon retire?

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

No.

[Geico Advertiser]

They still got AJ They. They still got Devonte, and they still got Goddard. No.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Yeah. They don't have the most danger, but hey, they. They improved tremendously.

[Geico Advertiser]

I'll tell you that for sure.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

They improved tremendously. A lot. Now that.

[Geico Advertiser]

Are they. Are they better than Detroit? Oh, that's a good one with almond ra.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Hold on with Jameson Williams, Aman Ross, St. Brown and LeBron. I don't know.

[Geico Advertiser]

And Gibbs and Montgomery. Are we sure?

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

No, no, no, no. That's crazy.

[Geico Advertiser]

You throw Minnesota in there. Addison, Jetta, Jones, Hawkinson.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Minnesota. Wait, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Green Bay. Wicks, Reed, Dobbs, Watson.

[Geico Advertiser]

Check this out. Jacobs, Debo Samuel, Terry, McLaurin. Marshawn Lattimore has a 61 million dollar cap hit. Jalen Hurts, AJ Brown, Devontae Smith, Saquon Barkley, Dallas Garter has a 66 million dollar cap hit. How we teed off, how it works in magic.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Hey, listen, you know who need to work some magic?

[Geico Advertiser]

Who?

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

America's team.

[Geico Advertiser]

They got done to work and they about to. They said the reports are they about to franchise a Diggy Zooa. So that's gonna be 25 million hard cap. You can't spread it. Dak is about to be what, 90 million against the cap CD he'll probably. You haven't even signed. You haven't even signed Micah.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Right. I think. But to give them a little breathing room, you know, they. They'll restructure Dac. They give them a lump sum on the front end and the signing bonus. The freedom. Freedom up, you know, some of that cap. And that's their. That's their fault.

[Geico Advertiser]

They.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

They want to wait till the last minute to do that.

[Geico Advertiser]

They do.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

They did that.

[Geico Advertiser]

That's what they always do. That's why you wait till the last minute. Now you got a franchise of Diggy Tour. Now if you don't sign him, guess what? He gone. Yeah, but you mess your cap up, you gotta. You gotta have some foresight in order to see like, you know what this guy's a player for. I know a go to inside him a little early and then a year from now you're like, damn, they got him for that. Yeah, Ocho. Will Howard has had enough combine. He's one of the quarterbacks that opted to throw at the NFL scouting combine over the weekend. And his performance brought mixed reviews and was deemed inconsistent. He missed multiple passes, including a couple of deep balls down the field. Shadow came to his defense. I don't understand why y'all hating on Will Howard. He just wasn't an addict. It's hard to throw to receiver that you don't know. Everyone run. Everyone runs routes differently. And y'all want QBs to come to the combine and throw?

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

I mean, listen, we talk about quarterbacks that just coming off seasons, we could turn on the film. What are you judging in someone in shirts and shorts, it does nothing. Everybody looks great. All American in shirts and shorts. What do you do once you put the helmet and shoulder pads on and your cleats? How do you perform then? How did we Howard perform then? Jeremiah Smith.

[Geico Advertiser]

Yep.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Come on, man. What are we talking. What are we talking about? Oh, I want to make sure you look good. I want to make sure you pass the eye test and your shorts and you hit every receiver that you never thrown to before and complete every pass. Get out of here, please.

[Geico Advertiser]

Yeah, it's tough. I mean, sometimes you get nerves sometimes. Hey, man, I ain't used to run, man. First of all, I'm used to having my ankles tape. I ain't have no ankles tape, man. Bad, bad o. I mean, I had never been on turf before in my life, right? Like, it is what it is. Somebody gonna give me a chance.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Yeah, that's it.

[Geico Advertiser]

I was like, I. I sure hope somebody that. That take me. They don't play on turf. You know who I thought was gonna take me? Ocho? The team that I had the most contact with, who I talked to the most?

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Who? That?

[Geico Advertiser]

Cincinnati Bengals.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Hey, what? Uncle, you could. Hey, you could. Hey, you could have been. You could have been over there with your boy, huh?

[Geico Advertiser]

I figured Cincinnati, Seattle, because they had called, ask where I was going to be, right? And Cincinnati, Seattle, who else? I really. I didn't hear from Denver, maybe the Patriots, because their guy came several times and worked me out.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Yeah.

[Geico Advertiser]

Oh, Philly. Philly I talked to. But I talked to Buddy Ryan, rest his soul. I talked to him a lot. So I was like. I just knew. I say Philly, Cincinnati, or Seattle. I was like, damn, Seattle player. I say Cincinnati play on turf. Seattle play on turf, and Philly play on turf. Cause, you know, the vet was terrible, right? The vet was. Every year was voted worst field conditions. Yes, Seattle was on turf because they played back then, Ocho. They played in the Kingdome. Yeah, I don't know if you remember the Kingdome. And then Cincinnati, like, man, Cincinnati don't win. Ish, though.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Hey, that's not necessary.

[Geico Advertiser]

And then, lo and behold, Bronco country.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Here you go. Here you go. Yeah, you.

[Geico Advertiser]

Yeah, you.

[Pat Surtain II]

You.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

You. You was all right. You was all right. You was all right.

[Julie Stewart-Banks]

You was all right.

[Geico Advertiser]

But, hey, Will. Hey, bro, don't worry about that. They know what you can do. Hey, when you have your pro. When you have your pro day and you throw into your receivers at Ohio State, that's all that matter.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

And again, even. Even at the pro day, Again, are they drafting you based on what you're doing at the combine? Yes, a little bit of it comes into play. But. But those where you have that much film, like a Will Howard. What are you talking about? You not throwing well at the combine is why your stock. Your stock is going to drop. Huh? Anybody saying that is why certain scouts don't need to be in position to make calls for certain teams. Turn on the film, man. There's a lot of film on Will Howard and what he did at Ohio State. What are we talking about? Oh, he didn't throw well. Unk. We talk about shorts and shirt.

[Geico Advertiser]

I get it.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Stop playing, man.

[Geico Advertiser]

Joining us three time Pro Bowler, two time all pro defensive player of the year. He's one of six now. He's one of seven DBs to have won that award. Mel Blunt won it first. Lester Hayes, Rod Wilson, Deion Sanders, Charles Woodson, Stephon Gilmore. And now representing Bronco country, pat Sir Tan II. PS2.

[Pat Surtain II]

What it do, yo? What's good? What's happening, bro?

[Geico Advertiser]

I'm proud, man. You represent Bronco country extremely well, man. You're the first defensive player of the year since Randy Gratashaw and I think 77 or 78. So it's been damn near 50 years since we've had a defensive player of the year. But I can't think of someone that's more worthy with the work that you put in. Oh, yeah, the way you prepare, you know, hey, I get the. I get. I get intel. The way the professionalism that. What you display, how you go about your business, how you try to get better and better every day, the attention to detail that you put in, man, I want to take my hat off and say, congratulations, and I'm proud you're a Bronco bro.

[Pat Surtain II]

Yeah.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

You know, you know, I've been watching you since high school, but, man, obviously having, you know, having the battles with you with your pops, man, we was in the league and they're now watching you dominate at the position and being the number one defensive back in the league. I want to know my first. What's your mindset, man, when you line up against some of the best receivers in the league with a great understanding, as technically sound as you are and as savvy as you are, how important is you to be able to keep your composure in most situations with dbs? Panic. Which makes you probably the best in the league on that. On that trait alone, outside of ball skills and other stuff.

[Julie Stewart-Banks]

It's Julie Stewart Banks. I'm doing a new podcast from iHeart Podcasts and the National Hockey League. And I'm paired up with one of my favorite players, the always quotable Nate Thompson.

[Nate Thompson]

I wore nine NHL sweaters and I have story after story to share. And believe it or not, I have plenty to say. And not just about hockey.

[Julie Stewart-Banks]

Believe me, he does. Energy Line with Nate and JS B Is the name of the podcast and it's going to be, well, it's going to be quite the ride. We're officially linemates, Nate. We're the energy line.

[Nate Thompson]

We'll have plenty of folks join us, current players, some of my former teammates, hall of Famers, and wait to see some of the connections that Julie has. She has quite the Rolodex.

[Julie Stewart-Banks]

Okay. We'll lean into Nate's playing experience and tap into our interests away from hockey and try to do what energy lines are supposed to to do, provide an emotional boost. How do you feel about all that, Nate?

[Nate Thompson]

I'm vibing Julie. I'm ready to roll.

[Julie Stewart-Banks]

Listen to Energy Line with Nate and JSB on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Geico Advertiser]

P.S. i might we get you a boost mobile contract, bro, so you'll stop freezing up on us.

[Pat Surtain II]

Nah, this WI Fi tripping, man.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

P, where you at? You at the crib?

[Pat Surtain II]

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. What. What's wrong with the WI Fi?

[Geico Advertiser]

What Ocho was asking you is that what's your mindset when you go into a game and you know you're going to have to take. You're going to have to travel. You got a lot of frequent flyers miles. Cause you go left, right? Sometimes you jump in the slot, but mainly you're outside, but you're taking the opposing team's best receiver. What is your mindset? How do you get locked in on a given Sunday?

[Pat Surtain II]

Yeah, I think it all starts with preparation. Knowing your opponent, knowing who you're going up against, you know, because the NFL, each and every week, you know you're going up against a top, top line receiver each and every week. So, you know, you got to have that mindset going in like you're going to win every rep at the end of the day. So, you know, every time I go and play every Sunday, I look at it as a blessing because, you know, I get to go up against the best, you know, and perform at a high level.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

So, hey, growing up, listen, did you always know you want. Did you always know you wanted to follow in your father's footsteps as a cornerback? Or was there Another position you wanted to play or was it always defensive back?

[Pat Surtain II]

Nah, I wasn't always db. You know, I've always wanted to be a running back, growing up. Yeah, I mean, you know, you know, I played at ppo. Ppo?

[Julie Stewart-Banks]

Yeah.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Yeah, yeah. Well, you was at ppo.

[Pat Surtain II]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Hey, y'all be cheating out there, man.

[Pat Surtain II]

Yeah, I was. I was showing all that running back, man, I always wanted. But then, like, you know, I played offense, you know, and then it. When I went to db, it sort of translated naturally, right. And I sort of got the feel for, you know, the instincts, press. You know, I had the press game already, so, yeah, I was like, I'm just gonna carry it over to db and, you know, the game went off from there, so.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Geico Advertiser]

When people describe you, the one thing they say technically sound always on balance to a T, does it? He doesn't get lazy. He doesn't get lazy with his footwork. He doesn't get lazy with his hand placement. He doesn't get lazy with his head. Head. What are you thinking, like, when you go up there and you like, okay, I got X, Y. I got Whoever the receiver is, when you lock in, you like, I got this guy. What are you thinking? Psych.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Shoot.

[Pat Surtain II]

First thing, I'm thinking of being sound. Okay.

[Geico Advertiser]

You know.

[Pat Surtain II]

You know, like you said, technically sound like it's starting my eyes, you know, making sure my eyes at the right spot, you know, not guessing, you know, you know, being sound with that, you know, and putting. Making sure my. My feet match. Receiver's feet at the end of the day.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Okay.

[Pat Surtain II]

You know, receivers, you know, Chad, y'all get in and out of break. Danny, you know, y'all. Y'all so quick, so we gotta react. And that's the main. Making sure I'm able to react, you know, a couple seconds, you know, later, with the receiver's timing at the end of the day. So, you know, I'll make sure I'm with that and hand placements.

[Geico Advertiser]

Right.

[Pat Surtain II]

You know, when I'm pressing, you know, feet align with my eyes at the end of the day. So, you know, that's the main thing.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Right?

[Geico Advertiser]

Let me ask this.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Go ahead, go ahead. I got a good one.

[Geico Advertiser]

Are you a pattern read guy or you are down in distance guy? Because me, I'm looking at guys, how guys play. Me, I'm looking at down in distance, how they play. I'm looking at when we're in a certain formation, how they play. So are you a pattern read guy or you're down in distance guy?

[Pat Surtain II]

I think that's a good question. I think it ties in both ways. Like when you, when you realize down the distance, right, like, you realize what patterns about to come. Like, no, like if it's third and short, you know, you, you four by one backside, you, you, you expecting, you know, you know what I mean? So like when you, when you, when you tie in those little things, you know, you understand the game. Like, I, I read like two by two sets and be like, okay, two out to the flat, number one got end breaker. You know what I mean? It's just like route concepts have different levels to it. You know, when you're a DB and you look at it firsthand, but, you know, it comes with experience, you know, I mean, I want to say, necessarily say when I was a rookie, I knew that, you know, so the more and more time I had in the league and understanding offenses and how they process it slowed the game down for me for sure. So I think when you go in each and every week and you know, you got the right film preparation, I think all that ties in together.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Yeah. Hey, this is what I wanted to ask you too, because I had a lot of freedom to be able to do what I want to do as long as I stayed within the timing of the offense. And I'm curious, on the defensive side of the ball, being that you're so good, how much freedom do you have in reign to be able to do what you want to do within the defensive scheme based on the, based on the receiver that you're playing each week? Now, each week you playing teams, number one, you traveling with them, and every receiver is different, do you change your game a little bit and your approach to that specific player each week, being that they're different and do, do they allow you the freedom to do that in, in, in. In the secondary? I'm not sure how strict your coach is. I'm just, I'm just.

[Pat Surtain II]

Yeah, I mean, there's definitely some freedom. You know, it depends on the call. You know, we have different variations of calls.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Right.

[Pat Surtain II]

You know, allowed you to be free, like, man to man, like you can switch it up your leverage and stuff. Like when I'm, when I'm playing in the defensive scheme, I'm sort of like, if I'm in zone, I'm trying. I'm more solely focused on the quarterback sometimes, right. Receive, like trying to bait the quarterback or give the quarterback this looks and thinking of something else at the same time. But yeah, you know, you get a lot of leeway out there, you know, but it's all about, you know, playing confident. You know, it all starts with your confidence and your ability at the end of the day. So I think with our defensive scheme, you know, Vance Joseph, he allows us to, you know, excel in our skill set. You know, I mean, play free.

[Geico Advertiser]

I'm looking at you and, like, you play a DK Metcalf or Mike Evans, those are more big body receivers that want to get physical. You play a smaller receiver, that's quick. Now, I don't know if people know this. You're a rangy guy. I mean, you got. You got long arms. You. I mean, you six two. You are legit six two and a half. I ain't no. They know. Well, with shoes on, you're a legit six two and a half. So when you go up against, say, a DK Metcalf on once play, and now you got Jackson, Smith and Jigba, or you got Lockett on the next play, how different, how difficult is it for you to get it out? Like, okay, this guy's more physical. Okay, I know I gotta be. I gotta be able to be strong at my initial point versus a guy that got fast twitch that's looking to get up out of there in a hurry.

[Pat Surtain II]

Yeah, that's the thing, man. Like, you know, people. People have this, like, notion on Tyler DB saying, you know, they can't get in and out of breaks, you know, I mean, I mean, obviously they know taller DBs may be physical, but that's the thing. Like, SDB gotta have quick feet, you know, I mean, yes, you got to be sudden as well, too. So when I go against bigger receivers, I'm like, okay, we match up pretty well. Like, that's my game, being physical. But like, them quicker, smaller receivers that shifty and quick, it's like, okay, now I gotta tie into my game a little bit more. No, now it's not physicality, you know, it's all about the feet being aware, being sudden. But, you know, that just goes in, you know, towards the working off season, like, making sure my short area quickness up to par. You know what I mean? All that ties in together because, you know, them receivers stop on a dime, then boom. I gotta translate that. Getting out the break and finishing on the play. So I think every week has its own challenge because, you know, sometimes I go against a new receiver. I don't know any experience against them, but a guy can be quick. You know, you gotta just read and react at the end of the day.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

So, yeah, listen, for me, my tougher challenges you know, during my tenure, during my career, obviously, you know, playing within the division, having to deal with the Ike Taylors, the Lee Bodens, obviously Darrell Reavers being the best DB I've ever gone against during my tenure in the league. Who would your top three receivers be that you feel are the most difficult to cover or you would give you issues? You know, I'm trying to find a way where you can. You can. You can give them, you know, their flowers without saying that they. They can beat you, you know, but there's always somebody.

[Pat Surtain II]

Yeah. You know, there's. It's crazy because the receivers, it seemed like every year, like, another receiver pops up, like.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Right.

[Pat Surtain II]

Like people had under the radar. So it's like if you go through the. Through the lineage of receivers that I could see pop up, like, year in and year out, because I look at consistency as well, too, so.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Right. Right.

[Pat Surtain II]

You know, so, like, Ozzy, Jamal, he up there, he had a great year. You know, I went up against him. You know, it was a good matchup between me and him, a good battle. Then we have, like, devonte Adams.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Yeah.

[Pat Surtain II]

I mean, we have good battles. Like, I look at dudes that I battle against, you know, I mean.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Right.

[Pat Surtain II]

You know, we have our good matchups, and let me see. I say Tyreek Hill.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Oh.

[Pat Surtain II]

And he's been like, he. He was that dude. For sure. He's that dude. So some good matchups.

[Geico Advertiser]

Pat, your dad, senior, all probably. How much time did he spend with you once you decided that you're gonna play db? How much time did he spend with you? Did you guys watch film? Did he say, okay, look for this? Did he work with you on certain things? So what. What's been some of the lessons that your dad. Having a dad playing the NFL play at a high level, what's. Some of the things that he's taught you?

[Pat Surtain II]

Yeah, I think it's an honor, you know, being able to, you know, sort of, you know, have that, you know, person in your life that played at a high level, you know? You know, just learning from him, learning what he's seeing from the game, I'm just. I just, you know, I'm just a sponge, you know, I'm soaking in everything he taught me, you know, from day one. So, you know, being able to translate that to the game now, it's honestly a blessing. But, you know, I learned a lot. I mean, he. He just knows the game, the ins and outs of the game, you know, I mean, he's played in the league for, you know, a Long time. So being able to have that on my side with his experience, it helps a lot. You know, just from when I was in the backyard just doing drills with him now, just watching film and stuff, whenever he had the chance to. I think it's honestly a privilege for sure.

[Geico Advertiser]

Let me ask you this. At Alabama, coach Saban spent a lot of time with the dbs. He was very, very hands on coaching eyes. Eyes this, feet, this, this and this. Tell me about coach Saban and. And his approach to coaching DBs and some of the lessons that he taught you, because it seemed like coach Saban was hard. I told you to do it like this.

[Pat Surtain II]

Yeah, yeah, that's. That's him, man. Like, he. The thing is about Saban, like, obviously he's very hands on, but it's with a purpose. Like it's with a result that comes with it. At the end of the day, like, you know, the things he teach you, you know, you just can't hear one ear, not the other. You got to really lock in and understand it because he'll come back with you and challenge you with the same question each and every day. And then if you don't lock in, that's when you're like, man, I can't trust you. You know, I mean, I can't put you on that field.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Yeah.

[Pat Surtain II]

So I think a lot of. A lot of things he says was very, you know, prevalent, you know, to what he teaches. And, you know, it was a pleasure because, you know, every once in a while you needed. You needed that, you know, I mean, you needed somebody to get on your ass here and there. I mean, I think. I think it was definitely a learning experience for me, but it was well worth it, you know, being coached by the greatest college football coach to ever do it, you know, at the end of the day. So, you know, my times there, spending with him, I learned a lot. You know, it just when I take some of the lessons that he taught me, I sort of translate to league now.

[Geico Advertiser]

So what were those practices like? You got Henry Ruggs, you got Devontae Smith, you got Judy, you got. I mean, you. You got waddle, you got those guys. So it's not like you're like, okay, man, let me go on over here. I'm gonna take you. Hold on. He was the Politicoff award winner, man. I got Devonte Smith. He called the game winning touchdown at the national championship game of the true freshman. He's the Heisman trophy winner. He's the Politicoff. Every award that he. He did that he's like, nah, let me. Let me go and jump on water. You got a guy that's running four, two, Boom. Got you. You got a guy runs running four, two by you. I mean, what was practices like? Cause I know there had to be some ish talking going on.

[Pat Surtain II]

For sure. It was competitive. It was, like, through my college career. I was even like, the games was the games. Like, the games were so easy because, you know, you went up. I was so much worried about how I'm performing practice in the game. You know what I mean? Because, like, you say you got Jude and you got waddle, then you got Smitty and rugs. It's like, those were right there. Like, you see in the game, live in action, and you're like, man, any one of these boys go for, like, 203 tubs, you know, if they want to. Then you got two at quarterback. Mac Jones, Bryce Young, Jalen Hurts. And you back there like, man, like, yeah, these some dudes. These some dogs.

[Geico Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Pat Surtain II]

There's a lot of talking, though. Like, he had competitive periods, and, like, boom. Like, the defense will win, and offenses get mad, they get frustrated. And Sabian, you know, he a defensive coach, so, you know, we ain't practice on a good note. You know, good speech, good practice. But, boy, the offense come back the.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Next day, light y'all up.

[Pat Surtain II]

Like, we have a tough day through them competitive periods. Then Saban, he'd be like, break it down. Then, boom, we'll just run gases.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Just.

[Pat Surtain II]

Because the defense did bad, man, he hate to see the defense lose. But, like, yeah, bro, them practices, man, like, I could vividly remember, like, us is, like, getting better, like, each and every day, like, them hot summer days through them grueling days, like, it was well worth it, because in the game, it was like, piece of cake.

[Geico Advertiser]

Boom.

[Pat Surtain II]

I know I need to line up like, he do a release. Boom. Oh, this easy. Like, I'm on the hip. But in practice, it's like, I need to lock in, get my A. You know what I mean? So, yeah, it was definitely memorable, for sure.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

That's dope. You. You've had some incredible plays, bro. You know, obviously, I've watched the highlights numerous times, being that I. I am. I'm a huge, huge advocate for a excellent DB play. You've had some incredible plays in your early career, earlier in your early career, in the early stage of your career. What's been your favorite moment, you know, in the NFL so far? Outside. Again, drafted. I know getting drafted is that you can't replicate or replace that moment. But outside of that, what's been your favorite moment so far?

[Pat Surtain II]

Shoot, I think. I think it just happened. Winning that deep, boy, man. Oh, yeah, that's pretty. That was a pretty surreal feeling. I just think, you know, that just ties in all the work I put in the off season, you know, and just setting my goals aside, you know, and put into fruition. I think that was my favorite moment so far. But I say. I say another thing is that's very underrated is, you know, building relationships, you know, across the league. You know what I mean? You know, building. Building bonds that, you know, around the league that, you know, you would. You would cherish for a lifetime. And that's one of the things that, you know, I've been able to get exposed to, you know, meaning great vets, you know, I mean, being around great locker rooms, great presence like that, I think that's very cool. That's a part of the NFL brotherhood. But, yeah, man, I know I got a lot more years ago, so I know things will keep rolling. Experience is going to keep coming. So now I'm very excited. You know, I'm enjoying it so far.

[Geico Advertiser]

How does the young man stay hungry? You had such great accomplishments early in your career. You've been an all. You've been an All Pro. You've gone to the Pro Bowl. You just won defensive player of the year in your third year. What does Pat Satan do to stay hungry? Because a lot of times when people re. Achieve an accomplishment, you climb a mountain you like. Yes, but the really great one. Find another summit to scale. What does Pat Sartan do for an encore?

[Pat Surtain II]

Man, I just realized at this point, man, you know, you've done everything, you know, at some point, but there's always room to get better. Like, sometimes I be like. Like, on this play, like, man, I could have did something different here. Like, boom. Like, what's that next step in order for me to get there? You know? I mean, like, I'm still a work in progress, you know, I mean, I still haven't reached my ceiling at the end of the day. So I feel like there's more work to be done. And I feel like right now, you know, I mean, people get into that, you know, I'm getting to that point where, you know, you know, people gonna bring a game, you know, each and every week, you know, I mean, you know, have their best game against me, you know, have their best number against me. So I know, like, you know, I mean, I still. I'm still hungry, you know. I mean, I'm still working. I'm still the same dude each and every week, preparing the right way, fundamentally, and, you know, making sure I keep on sharpening my toolbox. So, you know, this off season, I'll put the work in and get better at the end of the day. So.

[Geico Advertiser]

You guys had a great season.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Speaking of. Speaking of off season, you know, I got McLeese with me, too. Now line them up. I'm just letting you know.

[Pat Surtain II]

These, you know, we can line them up. I'm being az.

[Geico Advertiser]

Oh, you.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Oh, you wait in Arizona.

[Pat Surtain II]

Yeah, I'm being az. Man.

[Geico Advertiser]

That dude, man. Hey, hey, Pat, man, you ain't see. Last year, Ocho tried to get off a dude, man. Dude shoved him under the sideline. People put both hands in his chest. Not what? He didn't stab left or right. Right, Left, yes. Breastplate.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Hey, listen, the man.

[Geico Advertiser]

Anything is right here to him. He squeezed it. I said, oh, man, get out of here.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Hey, listen, what you got done to you, Pat, you. Pat, you got to understand now, I hadn't done that man in 12 years.

[Geico Advertiser]

The man asked you, did that happen?

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

No, that ain't happened.

[Geico Advertiser]

This man, you said, he lied. Yes.

[Pat Surtain II]

You don't have a chance, man.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

Come again. Wait, wait. Come again and press play.

[Pat Surtain II]

Say that one more time, you won't have a chance.

[Geico Advertiser]

Bronco country, stand up. That's what we do. Hey, we're gonna get you here on this one. You guys made the playoff your first couple years, didn't have a whole lot of success this year. You seem to find the quarterback in Bo Nicks, who was a rookie, played extremely well. What are the expectations moving forward next year and beyond?

[Pat Surtain II]

Yeah, we got great expectations. I think this was just the start, you know, I mean, of a long journey ahead. I mean, like you said, Bo, you know, we got a great young core, you know, I mean, and we also got some veterans as well, too. So, you know, I'm looking forward to it, man. I feel like we ended the season on a good note, but not the note that we wanted to, because obviously we was, you know, going into that playoff run looking for more, but, you know, it comes with it. But now, since we know how to get there, it's all about sustaining, you know, and finishing the right way and get into that next step. So I think that's the main goal, man, is just, you know, building the right pieces together. You know what I mean? I think with our team right now, I think we're going to bring everybody. Everybody back together as we should. So I'm looking forward to it. I think we're going to even be more hungry just because, you know, we. We went to the playoffs. But not only that, we got a lot more left in the tank.

[Geico Advertiser]

So.

[Pat Surtain II]

Yeah, it's going to be. I'm excited.

[Geico Advertiser]

You're not satisfied. You can Pat. Pat has merch. You can copy his merch at off-fieldshop.com off-fieldshop.com to cop certain the second merchandise. Check it out. What do you have? Beanies, hats, hoodies. What you got going on over there, Pat?

[Pat Surtain II]

Do shirts, hoodies, beanies, everything you need. Limited edition.

[Geico Advertiser]

There it is.

[Pat Surtain II]

For a limited edition rating.

[Geico Advertiser]

Defensive player of the year, Bronco country number two, Pat Sir Tan the second. Congratulations. Tell your pops I said what's up? Hope you're all well with the family. Continue success, bro. And you repping. You repping Bronco country quite well, bro. Mile high salute.

[Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson)]

All right, I'm gonna let y'all.

[Geico Advertiser]

The volume.

[Julie Stewart-Banks]

What's up, everyone? Julius Rippinks here along with former NHL player Nate Thompson.

[Nate Thompson]

We're doing a new podcast together. Here we go.

[Julie Stewart-Banks]

The name Energy Line with Nate and jsb.

[Nate Thompson]

Each week we'll get together and talk about hockey life. All topics are fair game, right?

[Julie Stewart-Banks]

Exactly. And you'll never know who will drop by to join us.

[Nate Thompson]

Julie is pretty well connected. She has text threads going that you wouldn't believe.

[Julie Stewart-Banks]

Listen to Energy Line with Nate and jsb on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.