Nightcap Hour 1: FRUSTRATED Shedeur Sanders goes SILENT + DOLPHINS Darren Waller on NFL COMEBACK & Overcoming ADDICTION

Summary

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Club Shay Shay: Nightcap Hour 1

Shedeur Sanders Goes Silent + Dolphins’ Darren Waller on NFL Comeback & Overcoming Addiction

Date: October 2, 2025
Host: Shannon Sharpe
Co-host: Chad “Ochocinco” Johnson
Special Guest: Darren Waller (Miami Dolphins TE)

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Episode Overview

This Nightcap Hour 1 episode dives into two major storylines:

• The controversy surrounding Shedeur Sanders’ silence following the Browns’ starting quarterback announcement, and the broader issues facing high-profile prospects in the NFL.
• An extended, candid interview with Darren Waller about his return to the NFL, overcoming addiction, lessons from his unique journey, and finding purpose both on and off the field.

The episode’s tone is conversational, frank, and often introspective, providing insider perspective, hard truths, and encouragement for athletes facing public scrutiny or personal struggle.

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Shedeur Sanders & The Cleveland Browns Quarterback Controversy

Shedeur’s Silent Press Conference

• Background: With the Browns naming rookie Dylan Gabriel the starting QB, attention turned to Shedeur Sanders, who was notably silent during his press conference.

• Ocho (Chad Johnson) Analysis:

  • Praises Shedeur’s decision to say nothing:
    "Whatever he says, they're going to twist his words. If you say nothing... you don't create controversy." (05:05)
  • Points out that media scrutiny is heightened for Sanders because of his last name and profile, not just his draft position:
    "If he was any normal 5th round pick, we wouldn't even be having this discussion... but he's not a fifth round pick." (06:23)

• Shannon Sharpe’s Take:

  • Emphasizes the no-win situation for Shedeur:
    "I don't know how Shador wins. If he says something, he shouldn't have said anything. If he doesn't say anything, he should have said something. Until he gets on the field and... see, I told you he could play or I told you he couldn't play, it's going to be something." (09:21)

  • Calls out the double standard in how the media treats quarterbacks with personality (comparing Jameis Winston and Shedeur):
    "When we like somebody, we'll tolerate more of their behavior than if we don't. See, we like Jameis. Jameis funny... But they have a problem with Shador." (11:34)

  • Notes family legacy and public perceptions carry over:
    "This was. Come with the aura of being a Sanders. It just, it is what it is... Any ill will toward Dion [Deion Sanders] and just overflowing onto his son as well." (12:01)

• General Consensus:

  • Until Shedeur gets his chance to play, speculation and criticism will persist:
    "People want to see him succeed or they want to see him fail, but they want to see him on the field, that's what it comes down to." (14:59)

Broader Quarterback Landscape

• Discussion compares Shedeur’s situation to that of veterans like Joe Flacco, Jameis Winston, and Russell Wilson.
• Sharpe sharply criticizes the expectation that re-tread veteran quarterbacks will consistently produce:
  "Joe Flacco hadn't been the answer since 2012 when he... took the Ravens to the Super Bowl." (07:45)
• Explores the unpredictability and sometimes harsh realities for young QBs (“You get humbled quickly; the opportunity is rare and you must be ready for it”). (48:02–48:24)

What’s Next for Shedeur?

• Both Ocho and Shannon speculate that, given the chance to do it over, Shedeur might have stayed in college another year rather than risk being a fifth-round pick (46:07).
• They agree: He has talent, but the path is harder if “they don’t like you” and you lack early support.

Notable Quote:
"If you think Shador knew what he knew now, you think he goes back to Colorado for his last year?"
Ocho: "If he knew what he knows now... yeah, probably so." (46:07)

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Darren Waller Interview — NFL Comeback & Overcoming Addiction

Career Reset & Mental Health

• Why Waller Stepped Away from Football

  • "Mentally and emotionally, I kept running into similar walls... I needed to step away to really just reevaluate my life. Was I doing [football] for me or other people to give me a thumbs up?" (18:26)
  • Finds new purpose upon his return:
    "Now I feel like the perspective I got from these last couple years allows me to step in and just see it the way I saw it when I was a kid... I just see it with a whole new pair of glasses now." (19:28)

• On Coming Back

  • Candid about uncertainty:
    "I practiced maybe three full practices... I don't even really know what I'm gonna be like when I step back into this. Like, I'm going to get hit, too. I ain't got hit in two years. And then to have it go how I went on Monday was just like, you couldn't even script that for real." (20:04)

• Role with Dolphins

  • Additional pressure as Tyreek Hill is lost for the season; Waller is expected to step into a bigger role within Mike McDaniel’s creative offense.
  • "Tyreek Hill is now gone... that puts you to even more of a bigger role. Knowing Mike McDaniels and the creativity... you can create mismatches with you all damn day." — Ocho (21:12)

Adjusting Back to Game Speed and Football IQ

• Waller admits it’s a process:
  • "Your spidey senses... being away for two years... all that shit's got to come back with reps." (21:48)
  • He’s intentional in his practice focus and knows "it's all just coming back to me as we go along." (23:56)

Dolphins Locker Room Culture & Leadership

• Waller commends the current Dolphins locker room and coach Mike McDaniel for establishing urgency and accountability:
  • "I've seen a sense of urgency just since July from cleaning up... putting in energy to be like, 'this has got to change.' And it starts with me, but really it's up to the guys in the locker room to police this." (27:12)
  • On his own evolving leadership role:
    "Now that I'm the oldest guy on the team... just kind of stepping up in my leadership abilities as well." (29:26)

Music, Passions, and Being “More Than an Athlete”

• Waller explains that he put his music career "on the back burner for now," but affirms its importance to his personal growth. (30:01)
• Humorous back-and-forth about South Florida cigar lounges and writing credits, with Ocho jokingly claiming to have ghostwritten for multiple superstars—a running bit that brings a lighter moment to the discussion. (31:02)

Overcoming Addiction & Inspiring Others

• Founding the Darren Waller Foundation

  • His foundation helps youth and families “avoid and overcome addiction to drugs and alcohol.”

• On Addiction and Recovery

  • Frankly describes losing touch with what he was sacrificing during active addiction: "In those moments where a normal person would feel like, oh, fuck, like, I'm throwing this away, like, I don't have access to that feeling... you’re too numb." (34:04)
  • Waller’s addiction began around age 15 and escalated into his college and early NFL career, culminating in an overdose at 25 before turning his life around. (35:43)

• His Message for Young People Facing Similar Struggles

  • "There are so many ways we try to mask what we're really feeling or who we really are... There has to be some return to authenticity: find a comfort and a joy in being exactly who you are... there is really no peace, no sobriety possible if you don't find ways to deal with the pain, the trauma that happened earlier in your life... whether people like it or not." (36:40)

• Peace and Contentment

  • "It's been elusive, man... but now I feel like it's a lot more attainable. I don't need football to do something for me or validate me... this is the way I'm choosing to live my life." (38:09)
  • Hosts applaud Waller’s courage, authenticity, and willingness to share his story as a light for others. (39:07)

• Future Plans

  • Waller is intentionally “year-to-year”—open to what God and life bring next after a successful, redemptive Monday night: "I’m open to everything. I don’t want to say I’m done... every time I thought I’ve had my life figured out, God has flipped the script…" (40:20)

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Broader NFL Culture and Advice for Rookies

• Shannon shares personal anecdotes about how NFL coaches and quarterbacks (like Dan Reeves and John Elway) invested in him as a young player, underlining the importance of mentorship and preparation:

  • "He believed in me. He drafted me. Somehow he lost his damn mind and forgot to cut me. For him, John and [Gary] Kubiak... to take that kind of time, I promise you, it's hard for me to believe that a head coach is taking that kind of interest in a seventh-round draft pick in today's game." (52:58)

• On being humbled by the NFL:
  "Anything they don't like about you before you get there, they will find a way to humble you... when your opportunity does present itself, you gotta knock that goddamn door down... especially if they don't like you." — Ocho (48:02)

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Segment Timestamps

| Time | Segment / Topic | |-----------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:34 | Shannon & Ocho Nightcap opening comments, guest rundown | | 03:52 | Browns start Dylan Gabriel; Shedeur Sanders’ silent press conference | | 04:45 | Ocho & Shannon on Shedeur’s PR strategy and scrutiny | | 09:09 | Comparing Shedeur to Jameis Winston; media double standards | | 12:58 | Deion Sanders’ legacy & impact on Shedeur’s situation | | 14:59 | Why everybody wants to see Shedeur succeed or fail, on-field proof | | 17:36 | Darren Waller interview begins | | 18:26 | Waller on mental health, leaving and returning to football | | 20:04 | How hard is it to come back after stepping away? | | 21:48 | Relearning game speed and ‘spidey senses' | | 24:42 | Tyreek Hill’s injury and Dolphins offense | | 26:11 | Differences between Jon Gruden & Mike McDaniel | | 27:12 | Is McDaniel ‘too lenient’? Locker room leadership | | 28:46 | Defining success and leadership on his return | | 30:01 | Music career update; Waller’s passions | | 33:02 | Waller’s Foundation and addiction story | | 34:04 | Recognizing addiction; Waller’s rock bottom | | 35:43 | Early addiction experiences | | 36:40 | Waller’s message to youth battling addiction | | 38:09 | Achieving peace and contentment | | 40:20 | How long does Waller want to play? Future outlook | | 41:33 | Shannon and Ocho reflect on Waller and lessons for comeback | | 44:12 | Return to Browns QB debate; What will it take for Shedeur to start? | | 46:07 | Did Shedeur make the right decision to go pro? | | 48:02 | NFL will ‘humble you’ if you’re not careful; being ready | | 52:58 | Shannon’s story—coach’s investment and the importance of mentorship | | 55:24 | What must happen for Shedeur to start this season? | | 57:07 | Wrapping up—defense, expectations, and final thoughts |

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• Ocho on Shedeur’s PR move:
  "If you say nothing, you don't create controversy… I like the way he handled it because anything he does say, they're going to make it a big deal." (04:45)

• Shannon on family legacy and hate:
  "Any ill will toward Dion and just overflowing onto his son as well. For me, you ignore it, especially as Shador. Block all that out, man." (12:13)

• Waller on recovery and worth:
  "There has to be some level of return to authenticity... no peace, no sobriety possible if you don't find ways to really deal with the pain, the trauma... and find peace with just being who you are, whether people like it or not." (36:40)

• Shannon on mentorship:
  "He believed in me... For him, John [Elway], and [Gary] Kubiak to take that kind of time... it's hard for me to believe that a head coach is taking that kind of interest in a seventh-round draft pick in today's game." (52:58)

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Tone & Final Thoughts

The episode’s conversations are unvarnished, humorous, supportive, and motivating, embodying the “Unc” wisdom and lived experience that make Club Shay Shay a staple sports podcast. Both Shedeur Sanders’ saga and Darren Waller’s comeback are used as windows into bigger truths about the NFL: media narratives, the challenge of second chances, mental health, substance abuse, and the critical importance of preparation, mentorship, and self-belief.

Whether you’re a current athlete, sports fan, or someone facing a challenge, this episode resonates with themes of scrutiny, resilience, redemption, and hope.

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Transcript

[A]

Hey, this is Matt Jones and I'm Drew Franklin, and this is NFL Cover Zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different. Did you see the Colts pretzel?

[B]

That was my other big takeaway from that game.

[C]

What was that? Oh, my.

[A]

We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining. And twice a week, that is exactly what you're gonna get. Listen NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

[C]

This episode is brought to you by Prize Picks. You and I make decisions every day, but on Prize Picks, being right can get you paid. Don't miss any of the excitement this football season on Prize Picks, where it's good to be right. Week four was certainly entertaining. Philly pulled through. Jalen had 130 yards. He nailed that max discount offer. Bill's Mafia and Josh Allen showed once again. I got my eyes on Josh next Sunday's night game. Also, Prize Pick is simple to play. Just pick more or less on at least two player stats. If you get your picks right, you could cash in. Prize Pick is the only app that offers stacks, meaning you can pick the same player up to three times in the same lineup. Want to pick more on Josh Allen? Pass yards, rush yards, touchdowns. Now you can pick them all on the same lineup only on Prize Picks. Follow other Prize Picks players directly on the app. Copy their lineups in one click. Whether it's a friend, a celebrity partner, or just someone's pick you like, hit the follow button and check out every lineup they create in the new Feed tab on Prize Picks. Download the Prize Picks app today. Use Code Shannon to get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup. That's code SHANNON to get $50 in lineups AFTER you play your first $5 lineup on prize Picks. It's good to be right. Hello, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for joining us for another episode of Nightcap. Y' all know who I am. I'm your favorite unc, Shannon Sharp, the guy that's adjusting his camera, getting the light set up, He's Liberty City's own. He's Bingo Ring of Fame honoree, a Madden ratings adjuster, former pro bowler and an all Pro. That's Chad Ochocinko Johnson. Please make sure you hit that subscribe button. Please make sure you hit the like button. And do us a favor, go subscribe to the Nightcap podcast feed wherever you get your podcast from. We'd like to thank each and Every one of you for your support and your continued support. Thanks to your eyes, your ears and word of mouth, Nightcap has been able to continuously grow. Hopefully we'll continue to do that thanks to your support. So thank you again. Make sure you check out Shave by La Portier now if you can't find Shave by La Portier in a city or state near you, order it online. We'll ship it directly to your door. It's this is the best tasting premium BSOP cognac on the market. Don't take my word for it. Ask anybody that's tried it or try it for yourself and I promise you, you'll be convinced as we are is the best tasting premium BSOB cognac on the market. Go check out my media company Shay Shay Media on all of its platforms and my clothing company, 84 with 84 being spelled out. That link is also pinned in the chat we got. Darren Waller joins us at the bottom of the hour. Ernest Jones is going to join us at the top of the hour. So we really appreciate our guests staying up and joining us tonight. The Cleveland Browns have announced that their third round pick Dylan Gabriel will start Sunday against the Minnesota Vikings in London. When asked about getting Gabriel getting the starting job, it was literally, it literally left Shador speechless. Oo, let's take a listen to the sound.

[D]

Yeah, yeah, let me hear that thing.

[C]

Quarterback.

[B]

Just one more.

[C]

What do you think you have to.

[D]

Show to some coaches just to have.

[C]

Them have that belief in you that you can be ready? What can you say?

[B]

How much has Joe been important to.

[D]

Both you and Dylan in terms of.

[C]

Your guys development to this point? Man, y' all might. Ocho, do you like the way Shador handled this press conference?

[D]

Absolutely. Absolutely. Because whatever he says, they're going to twist his words. If you say nothing, you know there's really wait on any other team. They're 31 other court. Excuse me, there are 31 other teams. Do any of those media members talk to the third string quarterback?

[C]

No.

[D]

It'S controversy. Why create controversy? How do you not create it by when they ask you questions, just don't answer. You just don't answer. If anything they should be talking to Joe Flacco. Why are you talking to Shador? I mean it makes no sense and I like the way he handled it because anything he does say, they're going to make it a big deal. They're going to twist his words. They can take it completely out of context. Listen, Dylan Gable's a starter, so be it.

[C]

For me. I Mean, it's being reported, Adam Schefter reported and some other networks are starting to report that this was his response to Rex Ryan saying what he said on the Sunday show, that keep your mouth closed, move to the front of the class and X, Y and Z.

[D]

Okay, I like that. I like that.

[C]

I guess this was a situation where he's like, okay, I should keep my mouth shut. I'm gonna keep my mouth shut. It's hard for me to believe that the scenario that he didn't talk to his father, obviously he leans very heavily on his father, rightfully so. His dad has been through things like this where, you know, he says something and then if he says something, it's one thing, if he doesn't say something, it's another thing. So he, he took this approach. Look, he's not just any other quarterback, any other third, third string quarterback.

[D]

No.

[C]

And I both know if he was any other quarterback and he slid down where he did, we wouldn't even be having, if he was any normal 5th round pick, we wouldn't even having this discussion. Yeah, but he's not a fifth round pick, so we shouldn't ask, ask him to act like a fifth round pick because that's not what we believe he is for me. Look, if he, if he took the pro, say, look, I'm happy for Dylan, right? Hopefully he goes out there and plays well. Um, Joe, I feel bad for Joe, but you know, this is, this is the game of football. This is a business and a. I'm just, you know, I'm happy for Dylan and my job doesn't change, right? I go out there, I prepare, and if my time, if my number is called, I'm gonna go out there and give it everything that I possibly got. That's really the only thing that he can say. Ocho. What, what's he, what's he supposed to say? Yeah, now it's a situation. I'm not. You know, we had this conversation and everybody from Cleveland jumped on me. I said, guys, what are we doing? Right? Why, why is Joe Flacco here? Yeah, we know Joe Flacco was in Cleveland once before and they let him go. He was in Indy and he wasn't. Let me get this straight. He wasn't an answer the first time around in Cleveland. He wasn't the answer in Indy, he wasn't the answer at the jets, but now he's going to be the answer this time around. Joe Flacco hadn't been the answer since 2012 when he won, when he took the The Ravens to the Super Bowl.

[D]

And.

[C]

And that's it. Go ahead, Ojo.

[D]

Nick, I don't think he. I don't think he was the answer. It was more sure of the short term, the shirt. Excuse me, the short term answer. Until they're ready to see who's going to be quarterback number two. We find out who quarterback number two was and it was only a matter of time. Same thing with Russell Wilson and Jackson Dart. Russell Wilson was a starter. He was a starter for, for a short time, like you said, eight weeks or maybe after. I thought it would been way. I thought it been far beyond that. But obviously we see what happened. They made a change after week three, same concept. I knew, I knew he wasn't going to be there, being there too long. And I mean, listen, Dylan Gabriel is now the quarterback. I wish him luck and we gonna see. To me, to be honest with you, I don't think he's the answer. I don't think he's the answer and we're gonna find out. Listen, this ain't the preseason. This ain't the preseason. And the defenses that you're going to see now are going to be a lot more different than what we saw during preseason. So if he can handle. If he can handle the pressure. One of the things I do like about Dylan Gabriel is not only can he throw the ball, he showed that he can be efficient in the preseason, but he's also a dual threat. He can use his legs similar to Jackson dart. I'm not saying Jackson Dart, but I'm just saying he had that dual threat capability and being able to extend plays and throw the ball.

[C]

It's funny how we look at things now. Jameis Winston has a big personality. He's a third string quarterback. Everybody would have lauded Jameis had he did the exact same thing.

[D]

Right.

[C]

I mean, think about it, Ocho. Yeah. The funny things that he says and the mannerisms that he has. Yes, this is Jameis.

[D]

Yeah, absolutely.

[C]

But they have a problem with Shador. I don't know how Shador wins. If he says something, he shouldn't have said anything. If he doesn't say anything, he should have said something until he gets on the field and somebody can say either, see, I told you he could play or I told you he couldn't play. It's going to be something. Ocho. That's just the way. That's just the nature of what it is.

[D]

Absolutely. You know, it's totally unfortunate too. If it was any fifth round pick, he wouldn't be talked about. Like this? No, because this would come with that last name.

[C]

Yeah, absolutely.

[D]

This was. Come with the aura of being a Sanders. It just, it is what it is. Obviously, I feel the Browns and organization, Stefanski, obviously the owner himself came out and said, this wasn't my pick. This is not who I wanted. So the odds are stacked against him. The car that he dealt, he's gonna have to do his best job at playing the hand that he has. When that opportunity comes, if it does come, you got to come out. You got, you got to be prepared. You got to be prepared.

[C]

You.

[D]

And when you get it, you got to shut that door behind you.

[C]

I get it. Look. And people say, well, James proved himself. What, that he's a journeyman quarterback. He threw 30 picks. He was the last quarterback in the NFL since you got to go back to Tester veri in the 80s that threw 30 interceptions. So I'm trying to figure out, what did he prove he took. Did he take Tampa to. Did he take Tampa to the Super Bowl? Because all I know, the team that he left, Tom Brady, came in the next year, and they went to the Super Bowl. So I'm asking you guys. You said he proved. What did he prove? If he proved, guess where he'd have been. Ocho, not the backup in New York. Where would he have been? Because where was he last year, Ocho? Cleveland.

[D]

Cleveland. Yeah.

[C]

He was in New Orleans before that. Yeah, All I'm saying, I'm saying the personality matches. We can look. Prove, prove. Okay, fine. I get your point. Where he started in the league, he was rookie of the year in the league. You're absolutely correct. But I, I, there are a lot of guys that's proved they could. Joe Flacco proved that he could play in the league. Joe Flacco won a Super Bowl. He was a Super bowl mvp.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Go look at Joe Flacco playoff numbers. I mean, you would say that Joe Flacco would have proven more if you say improve than Jamer. I was just saying the personalities. When we like somebody, Ocho, we'll tolerate more of their behavior than if we don't. Yeah, see, we like James. James funny man. Y' all heard what James said. James funny.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

James is gonna have a career in media.

[D]

Yeah. Jamie Jameis is one on one. Jamis.

[C]

Yes.

[D]

There isn't another personality like him. I think Shador doesn't have that kind of personality. I think people just don't like Shador based on the.

[C]

Or what?

[D]

He comes with the name Pops as well. Some of the things Dion may have said in the past, people that like Dion. So, any, any ill will toward Dion and just overflowing onto his son as well. For me, you ignore it, especially as, as Shador. You ignore it. You've been, you've been prepared for this moment. You've had the deal all your life. Now it's come to a head. You at the last stop, you've reached the pinnacle, your childhood dream of being on an NFL team. You're not the starter, but you have an opportunity to be the starter at some time. If things don't go well, you just need to make sure you are prepared when the opportunity presents itself. And that's pretty much it. All the noise. Block all that out, man. Block all that out.

[C]

It's just unusual to see the starter get benched. And, well, I guess it's common because when, when Russ got bent, Jackson Dart came in to start and Russell went to the backup.

[D]

Right.

[C]

So I guess it's not unusual as we might think it is. You're like, well, hold on. Flacco got benched. Shadou was already third. Shouldn't everybody just, like, move up a spot and the guy jumps back? But that's seemingly not how they did it, but because Brian Daboff said that Jackson Dart would start the rest of the season and Russ would serve as his backup and James stays where Jameis is. Yeah, and I don't, I, I, I guess it's common. I don't, I don't really know Ocho, but it seemed like this is the same thing. Joe Flacco lost his job. The guy that was backing up Joe Flacco moves to the starter and the, and Flacco moves to number two and, and the third quarterback stays exactly where he was.

[D]

Yeah, absolutely.

[C]

I think the thing is, until Shador gets on the field, improves or disproves what the OO is 50. I mean, want to play. He's too cocky. He's too this. He does this and he does that. The mannerism until he's on the field, right. Until he plays. Is the, the chatter, the noise is not gonna stop.

[D]

No, it's not. It's not.

[C]

Are you muted.

[D]

Me?

[C]

He ain't said nothing. I can't hear him.

[D]

You can't hear me?

[C]

Oh, just me?

[D]

Yeah, that's you. I'm talking to you. Can you hear me now? Hey, can you see my muscles? You see my muscles? H. Can you see my muscles?

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Okay, there you go. You got me now?

[C]

Yeah, I got you. Go ahead. That was me.

[D]

Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, but they. But it's. It's a situation, Ocho. People want to see him succeed or they want to see him fail, but they want to see him on the field. Yeah, that's what it. That's what it comes down to, Ocho. I want to see him on the field, and I want to see him sink or swim, Right? Yeah, that's what it comes down to. Because all this talk, well, he shouldn't have been this or he shouldn't have been that. Now, he's going to either prove a camp right or he's going to be proven wrong. Right. But they want to say, okay, see, now that's why he's made to the fifth round. Man, I don't know how y' all see how he playing. He should have never been in the sixth round. I mean, the fifth round, right? You don't know. I'm sure he talked to his dad. Yeah, his dad. Like, look, son, if it was me, you handle it. You your own guy. You your own man. But Rex said. I don't know exactly. I don't want to misquote, but I think he said something to the fact. Why are you talking. Because it's the same situation, and here's where he's gonna get beat up at if he doesn't go play in and he doesn't play well. Ocho, remember he. He said he can play better than some of the starting quarterbacks, right? Now, that's what got LeBron in trouble with Bronny.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Bronnie was in high school, or Bronnie was in college, and he. Bron said Bronnie is better than some NBA players currently.

[D]

Right.

[C]

You put a huge target. Now, I get it. When you tell your son, you know, you believe in your son, and you should believe in your son.

[A]

Hey, this is Matt Jones, and I'm Drew Franklin, and this is NFL Cover Zero. We think NFL coverage should be informative and. And entertaining. And twice a week. That is exactly what you're going to get. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different. Did you see the Colts pretzel? That was my other big takeaway from that game.

[C]

What was that?

[A]

Looks like something that should not be sold.

[C]

Oh, my.

[A]

So that was my other big Colts takeaway. They sold that.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Might want to go back to the drawing board at the Colts stadium.

[B]

Yeah, I might want to go back.

[A]

To the drawing board on that. Yeah. I thought the shape we had with pretzels was working pretty well.

[B]

It's Worked for generations.

[A]

We're just here trying to enjoy it. We hope you all will join us throughout the year.

[C]

And.

[A]

And let's go. I hope I'm as youthful as Pete.

[B]

Carol is at his age.

[A]

He's a young 73. He is a young 73. He is spry, I would say.

[C]

I wouldn't fight him.

[A]

I would listen NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[C]

But when you put it out there like that, oo, man, you. You. You're asking. You're asking for a lot of criticism. We'll get back to that in a minute. We got a very special guest joining us. We got former Pro Bowler, former Raven, former New York Giant, former Raider joining us, Darren Waller. Darren, how you doing?

[B]

What's going on, man? How y' all doing? Appreciate y' all having me, man.

[C]

I'm doing amazing. Let me ask, bro, you playing, I mean, look, you have a little setback, and we'll get into that a little bit. You get drafted by the Ravens, you have, you know, have some issues. You end up going to the Ravens where you revive your career playing. Unbelievable. You go to the Giants and having success there, and then abruptly, you know, you stepped away from the game. What went into that decision that you playing basically at the height of your career, and you said, you know what? I need to step away.

[B]

I feel like mentally and emotionally, I feel like I kept running into similar walls I was running into earlier in my career. I wasn't necessarily sabotaging myself in the same way, but I just felt like I kept running to the wall like this. This isn't really fulfilling to me. I feel like there's a lot more room for me to be having joy here, and I'm not having joy. So I feel like I needed to step away to really just reevaluate my life. While I was doing the things I was doing, was I doing them for me or was I doing them for other people to give me a thumbs up like that? So I feel like taking that time away really presented an organic moment for me to come back and join the Dolphins.

[D]

You know what? When I think about it, too, when you think about that organic moment for you and being able to get away and having a sense of peace, for most, usually football allows us to get that peace away from the world, away from reality. Are you in a space now, Are you in a headspace now where you think you fulfilled whatever it is you needed to step away from the Game from. And now you can devote your attention to just football.

[B]

Yeah, I just feel a lot lighter, a lot purer just in my life, you know, I feel like there was a lot of things I was involved in or trying to do just to, I don't know, escape the game in a way. But now I feel like the perspective I got from these last couple years allows me to step in and just see it the way I saw it, like when I was a kid. You know what I'm saying? Just being excited to play, like, having fun, like with the team just cutting up, like, it's just. I just see it with a whole new pair of glasses now.

[D]

Yeah, that's dope.

[C]

When you stepped away from the game, did you think it would be as easy as it was to get. Get back in? Cause normally, you know, getting in is easy. Getting back in is really, really hard.

[B]

Yeah, I feel like dudes ain't just really. Just like stepping away and then being like, I want to come back. Usually they step away. It's like there really ain't no coming back. So me coming back into it, I mean, I feel like I've always respected the game, so I'm like, dudes, it's still just as fast, stronger, maybe even more so. So I'm like, I practiced maybe three full practices, a couple limited ones earlier right when camp first ended. So I was like, I don't even really know what I'm gonna be like when I step back into this. Like, I'm going to get hit, too. I ain't got hit in two years. And then to have it go how I went on Monday was just like, you couldn't even script that for real, I think.

[D]

But when you think about it, too, when you were in the game, you were still one of the better players in the league as a position. I mean, just removing yourself for two years, two years from that and coming back with just two years, you're still going to be one of the better players at your position, as you saw when you guys played. So I'm excited for you. Sky's is obviously limits. Tyreek Hill is now gone. And so that puts you to even, even more of a bigger role. Because knowing Mike McDaniels and the creativity he has offensively, you can create mismatches with you. All damn day. All damn day.

[B]

Yeah, for sure.

[D]

Straight up.

[C]

How long did it take you for your spidey senses to come back? Because, you know, like, when you enjoy, like when you take, like four months off, it takes you a while to really understand, like, okay, you. This is where my danger spot is. Danger over here. The guy's coming up from behind. I need to get up in my shadow. Being away for two years, I can only imagine. And your spidey senses are shut off for two years. How soon did it take them to start tingling again? Where you felt, okay, this is man zone. I got danger on my right. I need to get up in my shadow. I need to spin left. I need to spin right. How long did that take for it to come back, bro?

[B]

I still feel like it's coming back because, like, during the week, the week of practice last week, like, we had, like, put a play in where I was kind of running like, like a choice, but, like, it kind of turns into like a wheel route. And I was out there like on the red line, thinking, I'm on the red line. I catch it. Like, my feet are just barely inbound. So I'm like, I got to get my field spacing back. But luckily, like, that first play, first third down of the game, it was just like two man. And I'm just like, all right. Like, I know what this looked like. I beat this a million times. And just like that muscle memory came back. But no, you definitely right. Like, I feel like the spacing, reading his own, seeing how things, coverages react from the disguise, like post snap. I feel like all that shit's got to come back with reps. Yeah, well.

[D]

I mean, and speaking of reps, was the game too fast for you? Did it. Did it feel like you were moving in slow motion a little bit, being that you've been away from the game? And listen, you didn't get a chance to play in the preseason, I'm. I'm not sure, but game speeding, totally different. It doesn't matter how much you practice. Once you get in the game, playing against somebody else, you'd be like, what the hell? Have you caught up to that yet? Are your legs. Are your legs up underneath you yet?

[B]

I feel like it was a good start Monday, you know what I'm saying? Like, I was getting, you know, reps against guys like Sauce. And, you know, there's good. There's good athletic guys on that defense that's moving fast. So I feel like it's a good start. And, you know, I'll probably see matchup guys with guys like JC on Sunday with the Panthers, they got. They got some guys that can cover. So, I mean, I feel like it's only going to get better for me. I feel like the little things tops of the routes just to feel like how I'm feeling in stems and just, you know, playing fast and not really thinking is going to probably take some time, but I feel like I'm probably further along. I think I was just off Monday night because I ain't know what to expect.

[C]

I think the thing is that you, like you said, I mean, you really haven't. It wasn't like you were out running RS because you didn't know if you were going to come back. And so now basically they putting you out there. You got to you, hey, I do I rip? Do I swim? What do I do? Do I press? I mean, do I get on the outside? I know I'm. I don't want to square him up because I don't want him to get my whole chest. I just want to give him a shoulder to hit. How soon did the route running aspect of it come back?

[B]

Like I said, it's still coming back, bro. Like, I got. So I had got injured when a few weeks into my training of when I said, all right, I'm gonna play again. And that had me out for real until last week. So, like, I had a few practices before I got hopped in that game. So it's really all just coming back to me as we go along. So, like, these Wednesday, these Thursday practices is, like, super intentional.

[C]

You get bad and field.

[B]

Yeah, super intentional for me to kind of like, all right, how can I curate, like, everything that dudes was doing throughout camp? You know, I'm kind of like trying to hustle up and kind of get back into. Into that flow, but also just understand, like, you know, I am where I'm where I am. I'm supposed to be here right now. I ain't got to be where anybody else is at. In a journey. My journey is probably as weird and unique as it gets. You know what I'm saying?

[C]

With the Tyreek. Were you on the field when Tyreek got injured or did you see it on the Jumbotron?

[B]

No, I was right there. So we had ran like. I don't know if they call that a crash concept in your day, but it's like the dude in the slot runs like the 12 yard out, and you got the under from number one.

[C]

The smash route. Yeah, we smashed the smash.

[B]

I ran a little under from number one and I seen the ball go over my head. So I turned, I'm like. And Reed caught it. And then I just saw, like. And then I seen his leg dangling and ocean's like, spot, like, just instantly. Just like, it Just brought me to the ground. Like, I ain't even know. My body just didn't even know how to react.

[C]

Yeah, because they said he suffered. Suffered a dislocated knee. Yeah. Torn ACL and maybe some other ligaments damage. It was. It's tough seeing that. So obviously, you know, and Mike McDaniel is telling the story of how he's, you know, he's joking with some of the guys. Like, guys, you just make sure you get this win, knowing. Because, look, you've been around this game enough. You know, when it's a serious injury nobody had, the doctor doesn't have to tell you anything. You don't have to hear about a report. You've been around this game enough. You see that? You know. Yeah. He not coming back.

[B]

Yeah. Straight away, I turned around and I was like, come. Come get him. Come. They got to put him in the air cast immediately.

[D]

Yeah, but.

[C]

So you was with Gruden. I thank you with Gruden because he's like, hey, this. This guy. He saw you. What has been the biggest difference between Gruden and. And Mike McDaniel? Because they both. This. This. Basically, the verbiage might be a little different, but this is the west coast system.

[B]

Yeah. No, the similarities between the two just coming from, like, the. The founding Fathers, like. Like Mike Shanahan and Gruden, like, it's kind of easy for me to pick up the concepts. Like, there's different words, different nuances, but they're both really, like, they're one of one individuals. Like, there's. I don't think I've ever met anybody with personalities like. Like either one of them. They got their own unique sense of humor, but, I mean, they love ball, for real, and they love giving. Putting the guys in position to, you know, do something with their career, do something with their lives, you know, so they. It's really fun energy to be around. I feel like both of them got just a distinct energy.

[C]

I don't. I don't know. It's hard for you to say, but the. The word out is there have been reports that he was too lenient, and guys were coming late to practice, and guys were coming late to meetings, and guys were overweight. What have you seen in your short time there that leads you to believe that, you know what, he's the guy that can get this fixed. He's the guy that can turn this around and get the Dolphins going in the right direction.

[B]

I've seen a sense of urgency just since July from cleaning up, you know, like the the fines that guys had from last year and just like, all the little things, that's just like, how the. How the. Are we doing this and thinking that we going to win? Like, I feel like he's put in his energy and. And used his words to be like, hey, like, this is. This has got to change. And, you know, of course, it starts with me, but at the same time, it's like, it's really up to the guys in the locker room to police this. And I feel like the captains have really, really gone out. Gone out their way for sure to make sure things are different from that regard, you know, and results on the field. Sometimes it's like, okay, it may take a while to get things going. Like, that's how the league goes. It super competitive. But from the standpoint of little things like you just described, I haven't seen any of that this year. And so it's like, all right, like, once you have that out the way, like, we can actually go somewhere.

[C]

Locker room controls the football team. They police, they run. You gotta show me the team that has the strong locker room, and I show you a team that consistently win. You show me a team that, like, that the locker room and the guys don't hold the other guys accountable, and I'll show you a team. I'll let. Just let me. You let me go. You put me in any locker room for a week, and I don't know anything. So I'm going in there blind. I'm just gonna happen to be in the locker room. I'm just gonna be observant. I'll tell you who's winning and who's losing.

[D]

Matter of fact, AD since you came back, right, two years removed, obviously you get opportunity to come back, play for the Dolphins. Obviously you have your team goals from an individual standpoint, two years move for the game of football. What would be a successful season to you now that you return?

[B]

I think a successful year for me is, you know, really just kind of keeping the same mindset I had before. It's like, I don't necessarily know if it'll be 100 catches. I don't know if it'll be the metrics that they once were five, six years ago, but just the same process of, like, however many opportunities it is, like, those opportunities don't get maximized is how I kind of try to measure success, try to get away from, like, the stats and everything like that, and really just kind of like being a leader, kind of being one of those guys like that. Shannon was just discussing Like, I'm the oldest guy on the team, I think, which is. Which is wild. Like, let's turn 33 September 13th.

[D]

Oh, that ain't bad. That's young.

[B]

Right? So just kind of like, embodying that presence, too, and just kind of like some of the. That I've been through coming in, going back, like, going from where I was in my career, I can relate to where any of these dudes is at in a career, from practice squad to getting cut to getting traded to on the rise, like, just kind of stepping up in my leadership abilities. I would say, as well.

[C]

Now that you're back in football, because when you stepped away from the game, you stepped into music, obviously, that's a passion of yours. But now that you're back in football, have you put music on the back burner? Is that something that you're going to pick back up once your football career is over?

[B]

Yeah, it's kind of on the back burner for now, for sure. Like, I've. I think I've written of one verse or two since July and like a hook or two for a song, but, like, I haven't really been doing anything. It's been focused on football for real. Like, I got a. A lot of songs, like, I'll. I'll like, tease some, like, put some music behind some posts that I put out, but all those songs are recorded before I even got back out here, so. And it'll be nice to take a break because I was going hard with it and creating in my time off, and so I feel like it's a good flow for me to be back in ball. And when it's time to pick the mic back up again, I feel like I'll be ready.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

I mean, I haven't really heard a whole lot of rappers from Georgia Tech, but. Okay.

[D]

Hey, I'm glad you do that.

[C]

You know, I guess it's a new thing, Darrell. Hey. Hey. We open to it.

[D]

Yeah. Hey, you know, one of my hobbies and one of my passions is, you know, I write. I've written for a few artists, so if any point you pick that mic back up, let me know. You know, I've written for Drake, I've written for. For. For Nicki Minaj. I've written for Lil Wayne.

[B]

You got. You got real credits?

[D]

Oh, yeah, I got real credit. If you ever. I wrote for Beyonce. If you. If you look at their credits on some of the songs that I've done, I'm in the credits. Huh?

[B]

Your connection up.

[D]

I'm gonna show it to you. I'm gonna send it to you. But yeah, yeah, we get in the studio, do a little something duo, little duet or something.

[B]

Say less, bro. And I need to know what's the best. What's the best cigar lounge in. In South Florida, bro? I'm in like Fort Lauderdale area.

[D]

Hey, listen, we could go together. Smoke on the water.

[B]

Smoke on the water.

[D]

Smoke on the water. Right there. Right off Royal Palm. Royal Palm Boulevard. Yeah. Or.

[C]

Or, you know, Darren, I don't do nothing but smoke them. Them Daniel Marshalls.

[D]

Hey, send me my cigars, man.

[C]

Whoa, whoa. I'm talking. I'm talking to the gas. This ain't got nothing to do with you, Ocho. I'm telling the man what I smoke. You don'.

[D]

You don't even smoke, Ocho.

[C]

You see, all I'm saying is that the Daniel Marshall. Those are 24 karat. You know, I got like. I got a box of those.

[D]

Can you see my cigars? Hey, Ad, On Pembroke Pines, Pembroke Pines Boulevard, there's another cigar bar called Aficionados 2 I go to is real nice.

[B]

I ain't smelling no 24 karat gold, but yeah, you.

[C]

The gold leaves you look gold something, you know, Daniel Marshall, when next time you go to the cigar bar, now they gonna be in the case. You just can't go pull them. Cause you know, they like a. They like 85 to 120 a stick, but, you know.

[D]

Nah, A.D. don't listen to him. Them sticking cost 289 a part.

[C]

Listen. Yeah, Ocho, why you mad? Cause I got. I got a box of them. Damn. Are you a couple?

[D]

Hey, Adam, them sticks was probably sent to him by accident. They were probably for me. You don't smoke cigars, huh?

[C]

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

[B]

We'll get on black and miles.

[C]

Darren, in 2020, you founded the Darren Waller foundation with the mission to equip youth to avoid and overcome addiction of drugs and alcohol. Support the youth and their family during the recovery and treatment journey. I don't know how well our audience know, but you originally drafted by the Ravens. I mean, a guy that you're. That's your size 6, 5 and a half, 255 pounds, can run like you can run. You're a matchup problem. No linebackers doing anything with your safety. They're just too small. People are putting their best corner. You beat sauce for a touchdown you were getting when you were at your prime, when you were with the Raiders. I thought you going to get my record that day, too. I think you had fit like 15 catching for 200 yards, I'm like, damn you. He gonna get it. To overcome what you overcame when you were at your darkest, did you understand? Like, man, I'm throwing this great opportunity away. Did you. Did you understand? When you're in it, do you understand or do you realize that you actually have an addiction? Who told you you have an addiction? When did you realize you had an addiction?

[B]

That's a great question. I feel like in the moment, I don't think you can. I think you're too numb, at least. I was like, for me, like, the. The drinking and. And. And shit, like, that was to numb a lot of things. I was feeling, thinking, experiencing. So in those moments where, you know, a normal person would feel like, oh, fuck, like, I'm throwing this away, like, I don't have access to that feeling, like it's all kind of shut off. You know what I'm saying? And I had guys like, Ben Watson was with the Ravens when I was there, like, right before I got suspended, and he was like, if you could just, like, lock in, bro. Like, you don't know where this shit could go. Like. Like a whole bunch of people just telling me that, and I'm just like, I can't really receive it because I also don't really have that much confidence in myself. So I realized I was addicted when. Because I OD'd in 2017. It was, like, a month before what would have been my third season, and I was probably gonna be a starting titan in Baltimore that year. That was 2017. And, yeah, I OD'd and then went to rehab a month later. And I'm just sitting there listening to what everything they say, and I'm like, damn. Like, I definitely. That's you 100 and me. And it's all throughout my family, you know what I'm saying? Like, throughout, like, the generations of my family, it's kind of, like, impacted a lot of people. So it's passed on to me and then being able to have the opportunity to be like, all right, I could change the course of generations going forward for my family and also just, you know, be somebody that people can look to, because, like, I don't up plenty of times, and. But they. They can still be successful whatever they got going.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

How. How old were you when. When you started drinking or you started dabbling with drugs? Were you young or whether you got to college, you started drinking? You know, college atmosphere? Was it in high school?

[B]

I was pretty young. I was, like, 15. My. I got into, like, painkillers, like, the hydrocodone, 5 milligrams, 10 milligrams. First started smoking weed and drinking after that, probably like junior year, and was just kind of off from there. It got real crazy through college and through my first couple years in the league. And then so it's about like a 10 year run from like 15 to. I got sober like a month for my 25th birthday.

[C]

What would you want, your. What message would you like to share with the youth about what they can potentially overcome? Given you're the best, you're the best teacher because you've overcome something. You know a lot of what these kids are dealing with. You know a lot of the signs, you know a lot of the symptoms, you know a lot of man, I'm all right. No, you're not. Because that seat that you're sitting in, I sat in that seat for about a decade. Now I'm in this seat. And I want to share with you the message of how you can beat this addiction.

[B]

The message for me is just like, there are so many different ways that we try to mask what we really feeling or who we really are. We compare ourselves to so many different people. There has to be some level of return to, like, authenticity, find, like a comfortability, like a peacefulness and a joy and just being like, exactly who you are. Because I feel like, me, this young kid, I was like, it all stemmed from the pain I felt from feeling like I was always like the odd man out, or people thought I was too weird, or I had big ears, big feet, I was getting roasted. Or like it all started from all these. All these little things. I was like, man, I don't feel like I'm right good enough. And I want to turn to things that make me feel like I'm good enough or at least forget the fact that I'm not good enough. And when really it's like there are people around you that are going through the same things. We just all try to act like we don't have stuff going on in our lives. So it's really just being yourself. You're gonna attract people to. To you that love you for who you are and that will support you whatever you go through. So I would just say, you know, there is really no peace, no sobriety possible if you don't find ways to really deal with the pain, the trauma that happened earlier in your life or whenever in your life and just, yeah, finding peace with just being who you are, whether people like it or not.

[C]

I like that. Happiness. Happiness is. You know, people say, I Found happiness. But happiness is something that you create. Peace is something that you create. How long did it take you to get to that point that you says, I'm at peace with Darren. I'm happy with Darren?

[B]

It's been elusive, man, to be honest. Like, I think my journey with, like, sobriety and just kind of seeing life differently started, like, 2017. And I feel like there were a couple years in there where I was like, okay, like, moving in the right direction. And then there was some years in there where I'm like, I don't know. I feel like I'm kind of moving away. Like, I'm still sober, but there's still, like, still something that's missing a little bit from, you know, say, 21 to 23. And then it's like, since retiring, it's opened up nothing but a path for me to just go as deep as possible with those kind of things and really just look at myself in the mirror. And now I feel like it's. It's like, a lot more attainable. I feel like the happiness is fleeting, but it's like I'm a lot more content with my life. Like, I don't need. I can step into football and just be like, I'm just. I want to have this experience. This is what I want to do. I don't need it to do something for me, to validate me to do X, Y, and Z. It's just like, I'm sure this is the way I'm choosing to live my life, and I'm gonna enjoy this.

[D]

And that's dope, man. The funny thing about it, too, I'm really glad. I mean, I'm really glad you're able to be authentic and. And raw in answering these questions. The questions are phenomenal, too, because there. There are people that are probably in the chat. There are people that are going and people that are dealing with the same issues you are and not knowing how to navigate those situations or how to deal with it, and you being a testimony and being someone that has had issues but gotten the help and look where you are now. I mean, that's an amazing story, and kudos to you for having, for one, the discipline to do it and stick to it and be able to live out your childhood dream again, because most times, people don't get a second chance.

[B]

Appreciate that, man.

[C]

Darren, we're gonna get you out of here on this one. Now that you're back, have you put a timetable or time limit on how. How long you want to play? Are you taking it year by year. Or you like, you know what? I really like to get two or three more in. Or you saying, you know what? All I know is that I'm gonna play 2025, and I worry about 2026 and 2026 and beyond once that time arrived. But right now, I'm in the here, I'm in the now, and that's all I can.

[B]

I think you. I think you really just said it right there, man. Because it's like, after experiences, like Monday, because I came in, like I said, I got. I got hurt. My first couple weeks of training, I'm like, damn, bro, we on this again. Like, this is still. This is still happening. And so I'm like, there's doubt, there's fear. Like, did I even make the right decision coming back? But then having, like, a night like Monday, it's like, well, wait, like, this feels like there's still, like, plenty left here. Maybe there is something more down the future. But it's like, I feel like, like you just said, playing this season, giving this season my all, and then reevaluate and from there. And so I'm. I'm open to everything. I don't want to say I'm done. This is just one chapter because, you know, I don't really know. Every time I thought I've had my life figured out in which direction it should go, I feel like God has flipped the script and been like, nope, we going this way now, because I. I was. I was set on not playing football ever again. But it's like, here I am, so I'm trying to just remain open.

[C]

Well, Darren, thanks for joining us tonight, man. Congratulations on all the success. Everything that you've overcome lets us know that there is a God and that anything is possible. Stay healthy, and after the season, come back and talk to us, sir.

[B]

Man, appreciate you always.

[C]

I appreciate you coming on, man. Darren Waller, tight end for the Miami Dolphins. To go through what he's gone through, Ocho, to be able to overcome, because, you know, hey, like you said, he was about to start in Baltimore.

[D]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

And ended up getting suspended a couple of times, and they, like, they moved on, and now he ends up with the Raiders, and he's a Pro bowl player. I mean, he's at the top. He's one of those top players. And then, you know, all of a sudden, abruptly, you know, he steps away from the game, and for two years, he's like. He's like, you know what? I want to come back. And kudos to the Dolphins for giving the Opportunity. I don't know if there were other teams out there willing to give him an opportunity, but I know the Dolphins was one because he's playing with the Dolphins. And so it's always great when you, you know, you, you, you. You're here, you're down here, and then you're back up here again. And so, like you said, he doesn't know if he'll ever be what he once was in his prime. But for him to come back and to show that there's a possibility, because, Ocho, you and I talk about it all the time. It's easier to get into the league. Oh, yeah. Then get out and try to get your butt back in.

[D]

Back in.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

But listen, if you. If you're really good and you leave a good impression before you leave the chance of you coming back, they pretty good. The mismatch nightmare. You think about. Think about this. Remember when Jimmy Graham's with the Saints?

[C]

Yep.

[D]

You see what he looked like?

[C]

Yep.

[D]

Gronk. I'm not saying he's Gronk. I'm not saying he's Jimmy Graham, but I'm just saying that he's a mismatched nightmare.

[C]

Yes.

[D]

He can go out.

[A]

Hey, this is Matt Jones. I'm Drew Franklin, and this is NFL Cover Zero. We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining, and twice a week, that is exactly what you're going to get. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different. Did you see the Colts pretzel? That was my other big takeaway from that game.

[C]

What was that?

[A]

Looks like something that should not be sold.

[C]

Oh, my.

[A]

So that was my other big Colts takeaway. Sold that.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Might want to go back at the Colts stadium.

[B]

Yeah, I might want to go back.

[A]

To the drawing board on that. Yeah. I thought the shape we had with pretzels was working pretty well.

[B]

It's worked for generations.

[A]

We're just here trying to enjoy it. We hope you all will join us throughout the year. And let's go. I hope I'm as youthful as Pete Carroll is at his age. He's a young 73. He is a young 73. He is spry.

[C]

I wouldn't fight him.

[A]

I would Listen NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[D]

They're out wide and go against receivers. I mean, he just. Man, he's really good. And you got a small sample size of that when they played Monday night.

[C]

Yep. Oh, let's let's pivot back to the. The Cleveland Brown situation with Dylan Gabriel being named starter.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Should we be surprised that he's the. He was named starter?

[D]

No. I mean, he was the number two. It shouldn't be a surprise at all. It shouldn't be a surprise at all. He was, he. Listen, Mr. Fancy came out before the season started and said that Dylan Gabriel will be the number two quarterback. I mean, that's what it is. That's what it is. So we knew at whatever point things weren't going well for Flacco, Dylan Gabriel would be the next man up. Now, if things don't go well with Dylan Gabriel, I don't know what's going to happen from that point on.

[C]

That. That. See, that's where I was going next. Oh, you were. You're right, Ocho. Because it was reported that Gabriel was getting first team reps along with Flacco if it's early as training camp. So he was getting first team reps. Flacco was getting first team reps. And who was the court of the quarterback?

[D]

Damn.

[C]

From the Steelers, Kenny Pickett. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Pick it up. So those guys were getting first team reps. Shador wasn't getting those reps. So I agree. We shouldn't be surprised. The question that I have for you, if Gabriel struggles now, what do we do? Do they go back to Flacco or they say or do they give Shador an opportunity?

[D]

You know what, I'm not sure. And knowing the game, understanding the business and knowing how the business works, I think they will probably go back to Flacco. I think they would go back to Flacco. And if things don't work out again and Flacco still not successful when he returns back to the field, then I think Shador will get his shot somewhere on the back half of the season.

[C]

Ocho, let me ask you a question.

[D]

Talk to me.

[C]

If you think Shador knew what he knew now, you think he goes back to Colorado for his last year?

[D]

If he knew what he knows now. If he knows what he knows now.

[C]

Hindsight.

[D]

Yeah, probably so. Probably so.

[C]

I think so too.

[D]

I would think.

[C]

But there's no possible way. There's no possible way. Oho. There's not a scenario that anybody thought, okay, let's just say. Oo he's not the first pick. He's not a top five, he's not a top ten. Let's just say. You know what? Oo because you and I having this conversation.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Let's just say that he's not a first round pick. 32. 32 players going to be selected in the first round.

[D]

Right.

[C]

Ain't no way he thought he'd be a fifth round draft pick.

[D]

No, absolutely not. Absolutely not. Not at all. And some people listen to some people to say, well, he wasn't that good. He was mid. He was. Listen, he can play the quarterback position. He can play the quarterback position. He does, he does. He's not a dual threat. But what he lacks in his ability to. To run the ball, he makes up in other areas. He has other intangibles that makes him a quality quarterback where he should get an opportunity to start on an NFL team. And until he gets the opportunity to prove he can do just that, we will have to wait and see.

[C]

He should apply for hardship for Covid. Say I want to say I want to go back and play. You're right. I mean, there's really, like, no way to really know. I mean, hell, I didn't. Somebody would have told me I was gonna be a Silver Ride draft pick. I said, you out your damn mind.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah, I was the number. I was the number one rated. One of the number one rated players below division one. So I'm like, okay, I ain't gonna go in the first round, but somebody tell me I'm gonna be. I'm not gonna be a top third round, a top three round pick, man, please.

[D]

Let me. Let me tell you something. You've been around a long time. I've been around long enough to understand that business and how that business works.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Anything they don't like about you before you get there, they will find a way to humble you. They will find a way to humble you. And when your opportunity does present itself, boy, you gotta knock that goddamn door down and close it behind you, because you're not gonna get very many opportunities, especially if they don't like you.

[C]

I would have. Yeah. I would have. I agree with you, Ocho, because my brothers tell me all the time. I said, man, you know, I'd be in training camp, Ocho, and I'd be like, man, I ain't. I ain't getting no ref today or I'll be in practice. You know, once I made a team, he said, don't worry about it. He said, one day, John Elway gonna call on you. He said, just make sure when he call, your number better be ready. Ready.

[D]

Gotta be ready.

[C]

And I think the thing that really helped me, Ocho, is that he told me. He said, t, you can. You could. You could be good in this league. He said, there ain't a whole lot of. Ain't a whole lot of can do what you do now. He said, just keep work, you know, just keep working hard. I. I don't know why that man took a liking to me. I don't know, Joe. I don't know why.

[D]

Right.

[C]

But I mean, for him and Gary Kubiak. Kubiak. Cool was the backup when I was in Denver when I first got there, 1991. Hey, cool used to pull me to the side. Now, that's when you know somebody really take a liking to you. He pulled me to the side. He said he would show me and say, hey, now you're gonna be in here on this, this and this. You know what you got. Now, they're gonna be in this coverage. You run this, you're gonna be on that coverage. You run that. Oh, so I'll be. I'll be out there doing like I'm doing. I do. Like. Okay, good job. Good job, Shark.

[D]

Hey, you know what else?

[C]

You know what else they'd be like? Oh. Oh. They were like, good job, sharp. That's what I'm talking about. Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Getting your playbook, man. Cool told me everything.

[D]

You know what else? When I think about it, when I think about some of the things the Fancy said, when I think about some of the things the owner said, they baiting, too. A little bit too. They baiting. When you go to the army, when you go to the Marines, when you go to the Navy, any of those places where it's a structured environment, what's the one thing they try to do to make sure to see if you. If you're ready or you worthy or.

[C]

They gotta try to break you down.

[D]

Trying to break you. They trying. They trying to break him.

[C]

You.

[D]

He cannot break. You cannot fold. You cannot lash out.

[C]

Hell no, I don't come this far.

[D]

Hell no, can't do none of that. You got to stay the course. You got to stay the course and focus on the end goal and prepare for that opportunity, because it's going to come. Yeah, it's definitely going to come.

[C]

Man. Ocho, look, I'm gonna share this story with you. I've only shared it one time, and I shared it with. When I spoke at Coach Reed's funeral. I was the only. His wife called me and asked, would I speak. Now, you got to realize all the people that he played with, he. Coach Reeves played in the league, he played on the. Coach Landry, all the coaches he coached he was offensive coordinator with the Cowboys.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

He was the head coach of the Broncos. He was the head coach of the Giants. He was the head coach of the. The Falcons. He asked me to. She asked me to speak. I didn't know until like she told me, but she's like, shannon, it would be a huge honor if you were to speak it at Dan. I was like, I'm like, are you sure? I was like, she's like, I'm sure. She said, shannon, you was always his favorite. He said you worked so hard. He said he saw how you came in and what you work and turned yourself into. He was just so proud. So I'm sure he would be honored if you spoke. Ocho. Every Sunday, Coach Reeves would ask seven or eight of us what we had on a certain play. God, honest truth. Every time he would call on me, he would already had salt. But he would tell me he was step out in the hall. He would tell me, I'm gonna ask you this, right? This is what you need to say, right? Say it like this. And I'm like, why he. He ain't doing that for nobody else, right? He's not. That's why it hurt me so bad. Ocho, when he got fired. I said, had I became. Because he got fired the year I made my first Pro Bowl, I led the team and receiving, right, that it hurt me so bad. I said, if I had only become what I later became in 93 through 98, right? Ain't no way coach Reeves get fired. So that's why it hurt me because he invested so much in me. He believed in me. He did. He drafted me. Somehow he lost his damn mind and forgot to cut me. And for him, John and Cool and coach Reeve to take that kind of time, I promise you, I don't know, you don't quote me on this. It's hard for me to believe that a head coach is taking that kind of interest in a seventh round draft pick in today's game. It's hard for me to believe John Elway, the number one pick in the 1983 draft was. He was a pro bowler, he was an all pro, he was an mvp, had gone to three super bowls, is taking that kind of liking in a seventh round draft pick. Gary Kubiak, who was the backup, is taking that kind of liking. Ocho, I ain't have no choice. It's like my grandmother when she put. When she took my mom's three in after raising hers. I have no choice, Ocho. How could I let these people down? That had invested so much in me, that believed in me. How I couldn't.

[D]

Right.

[C]

Man, I got in a playbook. Hey, every night I'm going home, I say I'm gonna know everything. It became second nature. It became. I knew. I knew what I had to do. It's hard because. Check this out. Ocho. Yeah. The tight end is normally. Why.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

In Dan's offense, he's X.

[D]

The X.

[C]

Yes. Because Coach Landry was a defensive coordinator, so everything is backwards. 1, 3, 5 is to the right. 2, 4, 6, 8 is to the left.

[D]

Left. Okay.

[C]

Yes. So if it's backwards, that's not Z, that's a wing.

[D]

Okay.

[C]

X, Y wing, three, Y. Dig tied in is the X. Ocho, tight end been why his whole life.

[D]

Right?

[C]

2, 4, 6, 8, bit to the right your whole life. 13, 57 is to the left. Oh, Cho, now you got verbiage. Oh, I came from the route tree.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Six, five, four. Same 737, man. What you mean? 52. Double slanting special. Huh? What? I got 52. I ain't never heard nothing like that.

[D]

Right?

[C]

Oh, man. Jeez. My mind was. Was spinning.

[D]

Some good days, boy.

[C]

Ooh. I just want to know, what is it going to take? What do you believe it will take for Shador to get an opportunity to start this season? Because this is. Because if he doesn't start this season, Ocho, the whole purpose of him not going to Baltimore. And it's reported that there were another team, the Eagles also thought about selecting him. He said, no, I don't want to play behind her. I don't want to. It wasn't that he didn't want to play behind guys like that, but you talk about a guy like Jalen Hurst is very doable. He doesn't miss time.

[D]

Lamar, you're not seeing the field hunk. You're not seeing the field at places. Now, the opportunity to play.

[C]

What happens if he doesn't see the field this year for Cleveland?

[D]

Hey, that. That. That's. That's one I don't know. And that's. I'm not understanding. But if he doesn't see the field this year for Cleveland, being that they're. They have shortcomings with Flacco and they have shortcomings with Dylan Gabriel, then that's malpractice on ownership. It might come to a point where you have no choice but to put him in there, because not only is the team going to call for him, the fans and the media going to call for him as well.

[C]

I definitely think the fans going to be calling for if Gabriel doesn't play well? I mean, look, just don't turn the ball over. Just don't. Just keep your defense off the field for. Damn. For 35, 40 minutes. I'm not asking you to be a world beater, but if you can give your defense. If you can score enough and keep your defense off the field where they're not playing 35, 40 minutes, you gotta. You're gonna have a chance. Yeah, you're gonna have a chance. The defense is plenty good enough, but not if you wear them down.

[D]

Yep.

[A]

Hey, this is Matt Jones and I'm Drew Franklin and this is NFL Cover Zero. We're just here to try to give you an NFL perspective a little bit different. Did you see the Colts pretzel?

[B]

That was my other big takeaway from that game.

[C]

What was that? Oh, my.

[A]

We think NFL coverage should be informative and entertaining. And twice a week, that is exactly what you're gonna get. Listen NFL Cover Zero with Matt Jones and Drew Franklin on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your pod.