Nightcap - Hour 1: Rodgers passes blame, Lamar underwhelming,

Summary

Club Shay Shay Episode Summary: "Nightcap - Hour 1: Rodgers Passes Blame, Lamar Underwhelming"

Release Date: December 4, 2024

In this engaging episode of Club Shay Shay, NFL Hall of Famer Shannon Sharpe teams up with former wide receiver Chad "Ocho" Johnson to dissect the latest developments in the NFL. The conversation delves deep into Pro Bowl selections, quarterback performances, coaching strategies, and pivotal injuries affecting team dynamics. Below is a detailed summary of their discussions, highlighted with notable quotes and timestamps.

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1. Pro Bowl Voting and Player Selections [02:14 - 05:17]

Shannon Sharpe opens the discussion by highlighting Lamar Jackson's dominance in Pro Bowl voting, stating, "Lamar has received the most Fan Pro Bowl votes of any player" ([02:14]). He lists the top five players, emphasizing Jackson's top position, followed by Derrick Henry, Saquon Barkley, Josh Allen, and Jameer Gibbs.

Chad Johnson concurs, noting the correctness of the pecking order based on current performances. However, he suggests, "if it's fan voting or player voting, it all comes down to preference" ([02:42]). They also touch upon the absence of stars like Patrick Mahomes and Travis Kelce from the list, attributing it to their individual performances rather than team success.

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2. Coaching and Player Adaptability [11:07 - 13:38]

The conversation shifts to coaching adaptability, focusing on Bill Belichick's potential move to the Chicago Bears. Chad Johnson praises Belichick's ability to adapt, stating, "one of the greatest things in life... is the ability to adapt to their surroundings" ([11:07]).

Shannon Sharpe emphasizes the necessity of adaptability in today's NFL, asserting, "the greatest bible is adaptability. It's not size, it's not strength, it's not speed. It's being able to adapt to the ever-changing landscape" ([12:30]). They discuss the importance of setting aside ego and pride to achieve team goals, highlighting how these traits can hinder progress if not managed properly.

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3. Injury Reports and Player Performance [14:04 - 15:59]

The duo analyzes Christian McCaffrey's severe calf injury, which could potentially end his season. Shannon Sharpe critiques the team's approach to managing injuries, questioning how players can rest while being overworked: "They working the dog crap out of you?" ([15:43]).

Chad Johnson responds by emphasizing the necessity of rigorous training to regain playing speed and acclimatize to game tempo: "Because once they put you out there, you got to put that work" ([15:55]).

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4. Quarterback Analysis: Justin Tucker and Lamar Jackson [16:57 - 27:11]

Shannon Sharpe critiques Justin Tucker's performance this season, highlighting his missed field goals and PATs: "Justin Tucker has lost multiple games this season and left seven points off the board tonight" ([16:57]). Chad Johnson sympathizes, explaining the mental pressures Tucker faces and likening it to other athletes' slumps: "Justin Tucker is in a slump" ([18:54]).

The discussion transitions to Lamar Jackson's underwhelming game. Shannon Sharpe points out Jackson's multiple fumbles and overthrows, questioning his ability to perform under pressure: "Lamar did not play a good game today. He really never found his rhythm" ([21:13]). Chad Johnson defends Jackson's multidimensional skills but acknowledges his recent struggles: "I can beat you from the pocket... I can do all the different things from the pocket" ([26:09]).

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5. Defensive and Offensive Strategies [27:04 - 36:49]

Shannon critiques the Ravens' defense, particularly against Lamar Jackson's running abilities: "Your defense is historically bad. They don't have an option" ([41:43]). Chad Johnson agrees, analyzing specific plays and defensive lapses that led to turnovers and points for opponents.

They discuss the importance of protecting the quarterback and minimizing turnovers, highlighting how defensive weaknesses can negate a quarterback's performance: "If your defense is bad, you can't turn it over" ([36:49]).

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6. Player Transfers and Coaching Fit: Russell Wilson and Aaron Rodgers [52:56 - 59:10]

The conversation covers Russell Wilson's transition from the Seattle Seahawks to the Denver Broncos and now to the Pittsburgh Steelers. Shannon Sharpe praises Wilson's fit with Steelers' coach Mike Tomlin, contrasting it with his stint under Sean Payton in Denver: "Russ needed to go and get built back up... Mike Tomlin has put Russell Wilson in some great positions" ([54:32]).

They also analyze Aaron Rodgers' performance post-injury, acknowledging his historical greatness but criticizing his current season's struggles: "Aaron Rodgers has not played well this year... he has not played well this year and it's okay to say that" ([56:39]).

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7. Final Thoughts and Reflections [59:08 - End]

Chad Johnson highlights the rapid decline quarterbacks like Rodgers are experiencing, attributing it to injuries and defensive shortcomings: "I don't think we've seen quarterbacks decline in such a manner this fast. Maybe because of the injury." ([59:08]).

Shannon Sharpe reflects on the inconsistency in accountability among quarterbacks, comparing current biases to past figures like Peyton Manning: "When Peyton had a bad defense, y'all didn't make the excuses for Peyton that you make for Joe Burrow" ([45:46]).

The episode concludes with Shannon emphasizing the need for transparency and accountability in evaluating quarterback performances, urging listeners to acknowledge both statistics and situational factors objectively.

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Notable Quotes

• Shannon Sharpe: "The greatest bible is adaptability. It's not size, it's not strength, it's not speed. It's being able to adapt to the ever-changing landscape." ([12:30])

• Chad Johnson: "Justin Tucker is in a slump." ([18:54])

• Shannon Sharpe: "If your defense is bad, you can't turn it over." ([36:49])

• Chad Johnson: "Aaron Rodgers has not played well this year and it's okay to say that." ([56:39])

---

Conclusions

Shannon Sharpe and Chad Johnson provide a candid and comprehensive analysis of the current NFL landscape, focusing on player performances, coaching strategies, and team dynamics. Their discussions underscore the importance of adaptability, accountability, and mental resilience in professional sports. By highlighting both individual and team responsibilities, the episode offers valuable insights for fans seeking a deeper understanding of the game.

If you missed this episode, make sure to tune in for more in-depth NFL discussions and expert opinions on Club Shay Shay.

Transcript

[Michael Lewis]

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[Shannon Sharpe]

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[Shannon Sharpe]

Ocho Lamar Jackson lead all players an initial Pro bowl voting Lamar has received the most Fan provo votes of any player. Derek Henry is second. Next on the list is Saquon Barkley. Third on the list is Josh Allen. Fourth on the list. Yeah, fourth on the list is Josh Allen. So Lamar is one, Derrick Henry is two, Saquon is three, Josh Allen is four and Jameer Gibbs is fifth. Are there any. Is there a surprising omission to you?

[Chad Johnson]

I mean, no. I mean, you look at everybody. Look at everybody that you name and look at their resume to date as of what they've done so far this season. I mean, it's in, it's in the right pecking order. It's the right pecking order. I mean, some, some might switch Josh Allen and Lamar, but either way, it's all. It's all based on preference. Right? Now, if we, if we were to, to have an mvp, I think Josh Allen might be leading.

[Shannon Sharpe]

I think you would win, too.

[Chad Johnson]

You know, so it all, it all depends. And if it's fan voting, if it's player voting, it all comes down to preference, especially if it's Pro bowl voting, because everybody that you just named, regardless of order, is playing phenomenal effing football right now. So you can't go wrong no matter what.

[Shannon Sharpe]

There's no Patrick Mahomes. There's no Travis Kelce for obvious reasons.

[Chad Johnson]

I know they have a winning record, but they're not playing well from an individual standpoint. As a team. Yes, individually. Matter of fact.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Go ahead, Go ahead.

[Chad Johnson]

I don't even think. I don't even think they would be able to go to. They wouldn't be around to go to the Pro bowl anyway.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Now.

[Chad Johnson]

For me, they might be playing possum. You never know.

[Shannon Sharpe]

No, I mean, I don't think I would. I don't think they would have earned it. Now, sometimes guys get to go on reputation.

[Chad Johnson]

Yeah. Name alone. Yeah. Yeah.

[Shannon Sharpe]

But if, if you look at that, it says they, this individual earned the right to participate in the Pro Bowl. I'm going to say no, right? I'm going to say no. Now you take three quarters, first of all, three quarterbacks go. I don't like the way they do it now because they have the Pro bowl before the, before the Super Bowl. So, you know, normally there's the quarterback that makes the Super Bowl. He's going to be a Pro bowl player. He's not going to go. So that's why you get these guys all of a sudden. Oh, he's a Pro bowl pro. He was the ninth alternate. Nobody else wanted to go. I mean, once upon a time, Ocho, Once, man, they like. Now you got ninth and eighth guys. Come on, bro. Bro. They took the backup to Lamar from Baltimore one year to the Pro Bowl. The quarterback. Come on, Ocho. Yeah, they're taking a backup. You got 16 starters. He'll back up. Nobody else wanted to go. But that's on his resume. Right. But you're right. I agree with everything you say. I don't believe Patrick nor Trav has earned the right Brock Bowers should be the starting AFC at the Pro bowl.

[Chad Johnson]

At the tight end position.

[Shannon Sharpe]

At the tight end position. Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely.

[Chad Johnson]

He's playing really, really well.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Really well.

[Chad Johnson]

Yeah.

[Shannon Sharpe]

And I'm trying to think with the.

[Chad Johnson]

Quarterback carousel at that.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yes, yes, yes. And they getting in the rock, but he deserves it, man. Hey, I thought when I watched him as a freshman, I said, this guy, I say, this guy can play in the league. And he go, and he's really good. And then I saw him in sophomore year, I said, yeah, he a top 10 pick. And you can see it. His ability to. His ability to track the football, his ability to run after the catch. He can catch it on crowd. I mean, he's fluid at his size. I mean, offensively, he has no weaknesses, right? And that's what you're looking for. These guys, you gotta be able to play in space. You gotta be a matchup nightmare. And he's a matchup nightmare for your safety, for your linebackers, for your corners because of his size, because of his quickness. He's really, really good. I mean, he has the potential to be historically good. After Jeff lost to the Seahawks, Rogers was asked about his pedestrian statistics. And he was quick to remind everyone it's not all his fault. There are 11 guys on the field. Sometimes it's my fault. Definitely multiple times today. And then sometimes the details aren't there in other spots. The jets are 3 and 9. They're 05. When Rogers have the chance to win the game late, he throw a. A brutal pick six since 2022, Rogers ranks 30th out of 35 quarterbacks in total QBR OO at some point in time, bro, you just got to say, yeah, me most quarter when Brady. See, the thing is, Brady is quick. Manny the great quarterback. And I'm not talking about the average guy. I'm talking about the great. Because I think Rogers deserve to be mentioned with those guys. They ask you about you. I'm not playing with coacho Shannon. You know what, Shannon? You're not having your typical year. Yeah, man, I ain't playing well. I'm not seeing the ball. You know, I just not playing well. It's. And you know, I need to take advantage of the opportunities when they're presenting themselves. I think sometimes because I'm trying to force it, because I feel like the opportunities that I'm. That I normally would get aren't there. I'm trying to magnify that. So if I get an opportunity, I'm trying to make three opportunities and I can't I'm trying to make everything a home run because I'm trying to make every. I'm trying to show everybody that I'm still that guy. That's all you have to do. O Joe, why mention anybody else? They ask you about your number, he's.

[Chad Johnson]

Not going to do that. And actually they got the wrong people that are asking the questions. You know, if you, if you got the right person to ask them the question, they're going to ask the question in such a way where you have no choice but to answer it in a way that we want to hear directly. Not around the bush, not about your numbers. I'm talking about specifically where you can't dodge, you can't beat around the bush, where you can't even mention anybody else because the question is going to be directly pertain to just you not even giving you the angle to be able to put others in it. Yes, we all know it's a team game, but we ain't talking about the team right now. We talk about you. Yes, it's all in the questioning. All in the questioning.

[Shannon Sharpe]

It's just, it's just tough for him. And it's hard. Ocho, when you've been great for a long time and all of a sudden you're not great anymore and you see your mortality. Man, that thing, hey, he can't go get you them 300 yard games in them four touchdown games like he could in Green Bay. He can't just whip it. When last time you see him do this, when last time you see him do that?

[Chad Johnson]

The discount double check or, or you.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Know his favorite thing.

[Chad Johnson]

Yeah, that little fist. Yeah, we, we, yeah, we ain't get that. We might get, we might get it next year.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Well, he must be playing golf or something.

[Chad Johnson]

Listen, wherever you gonna be playing, I know one thing. The, the jets don't have no options right now.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Him on the run, they still don't even with him there, they don't have an option. Ocho, he's about to be 41. He's about to be 41. At what situation do you get better with age playing a professional sport at that age? I'm not saying that like when, you know, Ocho, you know, you're in your 20s and you head towards your prime. He's long past that prime. So when, when do you start to get better at that? The Bears join the Jets Saints as team to find their head coach in the season this year. Oo do you believe the Chicago Bears will be one of the most coveted jobs from A head coaching staff from a head coaching position in the NFL?

[Chad Johnson]

I think so simply because you have a quarterback. You have a quarterback that you can work with. The quarterback has a foundation. He has something that you can work with. Depending on who comes in there, what type of offense are you going to have for that foresaid quarterback? Can you find a way to keep DJ Moore happy? Can. Can you find a way to keep Ken Allen happy? Adding some more pieces to that team? Offensively, I think it could be a nice. A nice job. It all depends on who the coach is. I told you what I told. I told you what I said and what I like. Hell, I like goddamn Bill going there. Hell, I like goddamn Bill going anywhere. I think all Bill needs is a goddamn quarterback. An organization like Chicago would be perfect for Bill. They're going to give you the keys and allow you to do everything you need to do to allow them to compete in the NFC again. You know, maybe be the 85 Bears once again. You never know.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Is he. Is he going to be able to relate to today's player?

[Chad Johnson]

Listen, one of the greatest things in life that God has given everybody is the ability to adapt to their surroundings in the areas that they're in. I'm sure he will be able to.

[Shannon Sharpe]

How malleable have he been? How malleable has he been in his career? Why wouldn't he do it in New England then if he's so easy to adapt?

[Chad Johnson]

I can't. I can't. I can't answer that for him.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Well, you just said that he has the ability to listen.

[Chad Johnson]

You have to be able to have that kind of success at anything you do.

[Shannon Sharpe]

What did he adapt to? He was rigid, hardline. But what did he adapt?

[Chad Johnson]

We in different times. I think Bill understands we're in different times. In order for you to have that same success, some of the things that you're used to doing, you got to do them different. I think he understands that by looking at the landscape and seeing, wait, well, you know what? I gotta approach it differently if I get the opportunity to be a head coach again, because this is how today's players are.

[Shannon Sharpe]

I can. I can see that the coach, he's. He's gonna. Because now he's forced to do that.

[Chad Johnson]

Yeah, sometimes that's what it takes. Some. Sometimes. Sometimes. Sometimes with that. Sometimes your back has to be against the wall for you to see things differently.

[Shannon Sharpe]

I agree.

[Chad Johnson]

And change your perspective in the way you do. Hell, my back bit again. Your back bit against. I have nothing to do with the game. Of football.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yes.

[Chad Johnson]

My back has been against the wall before. It had nothing to do with the game of football. I know. Okay. If I don't straight up, if I don't straighten up out right now, you already know what the end result is.

[Shannon Sharpe]

I still believe the greatest, the greatest bible is adaptability.

[Chad Johnson]

That too.

[Shannon Sharpe]

It's not size, it's not strength, it's not speed. It's being able to adapt to the ever of changing.

[Chad Johnson]

And there are two things that can get in the way around you. Ego and your pride. Ego and your pride can get in the way of that. If you're able to compartmentalize and set those aside and understanding whatever that end goal may be. And it doesn't just have to be football. It don't have to be just you coaching. I'm talking about just life in general. Setting that, that pride, ego aside for the betterment of whatever end goal you trying to reach. It'll help. It help.

[Shannon Sharpe]

I think if he's going to have to be that, he's going to have to be that kind of that Coach Belichick that's on the inside the NFL and he can't be so rigid and he can't be so structured and he can't be so what he was in New England. First of all, he doesn't have Tom Brady running interference for him anymore.

[Chad Johnson]

Yeah.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Cause Tom was the patriot way. You heard the guys. Bill was our coach. But we played for.

[Chad Johnson]

Hold on, let me change my camera getting blurry. Hold on.

[Shannon Sharpe]

It's still blurry.

[Chad Johnson]

Whoa.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Man. Get your skeletor ass face up back up by the camera, man. Damn, man. Back up. O. Yeah, that's better. Yeah. You need to shave too.

[Chad Johnson]

No, I don't.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yeah, you do. Yeah, you do. I ain't in those Skeletor hand razor bumps.

[Chad Johnson]

Nah, that's all clean Skeletor. Hey, hey.

[Shannon Sharpe]

The council grace clean.

[Chad Johnson]

I just need a haircut. Once I clean that up. Put a little C. You got. You use Sea Breeze. You know what Sea Breeze is? Hey, put a little Sea Breeze.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yeah, I knew Seabeez.

[Chad Johnson]

I look good, Ocho.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Kyle Shanahan said Kristen McCaffrey suffered a potentially seasoned ending non contact.

[Chad Johnson]

Or was it previously when he got tripped up? You think it happened previously?

[Shannon Sharpe]

They showed that play, but you knew as soon as like that knee buckle. When he took off, you could see that knee buckle and then he like gave himself up. So you knew something. I was like, damn. Did he. Is it the Achilles? Did the Cav go? But Kyle Shanahan just said his press conference. Christian McCaffrey suffered a potentially season ending. It's over. It'll make his leg that.

[Chad Johnson]

He just had the plan.

[Shannon Sharpe]

I think it was his right. I think it was his right one. No, he had a. He had a calf injury that led into his Achilles. And, and the thing oo and you know, the thing is, is that I. What do we say all the time? If you limp into the season? Oh, you limping out of it, how you gonna get healthy during the season?

[Chad Johnson]

It's impossible.

[Shannon Sharpe]

The. The number one thing, when anybody have surgery or anybody have an injury, what do they tell you? The most important thing? Ocho. Rest. How you gonna get rest? They working the dog crap out of you?

[Chad Johnson]

Listen, they do.

[Shannon Sharpe]

I'm just saying they can only take.

[Chad Johnson]

You so much because in order to get you back to the playing speed and get you acclimated to game tempo, you got some type of work, you.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Got to put some work.

[Chad Johnson]

Because once they put you out there.

[Shannon Sharpe]

You got to put that work.

[Chad Johnson]

Hey, them boys moving them boys. Damn. I'm sad. I'm sad for the LA C Mac man.

[Michael Lewis]

Hey there, it's Michael Lewis, author of Going Infinite Moneyball, the Blind side and Liars Poker. On every season of my podcast, against the Rules, I take a broad look at various characters in American life. The referee, the coach, the expert. My next season is all about fans and what the rise of sports betting is doing to them, to the teams, and even to my family. I'm heading to Las Vegas and New Jersey and beyond to understand America's newest form of legalized gambling. Listen to against the rules on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Ah, the game of the day. The Eagles defeated the Ravens 24 19. Justin Tucker has lost multiple games this season and left seven points off the board tonight. He continued this season long struggles by missing two field goals and a PAT. One from 47, one from 43. His two fail field goals came in the third when Baltimore trailed 14 to 12. If this is the first time that he's missed three kicks in a game. And he put a major dent in the AFC in the Ravens opportunity to win the North. Tucker's missed eight field goals, but he's missed 10 kicks, if I'm not mistaken, eight field goals and two PATs this season, which is a single season high. Harbaugh is sticking with Tucker. We saw him go to them on the sideline, say we believe in you. You hugged him. If you're asking me are we going to move on From Justin Tucker. I'm not really planning doing that right now. I don't think that would be wild.

[Chad Johnson]

Did you hear the key words you just said? I don't like that. I don't like that. Did he say right now or did you just add that in there?

[Shannon Sharpe]

No, he said that right now. I don't plan on doing that right now. I'm not really planning on doing that right now. I don't think that be wise.

[Chad Johnson]

I don't like that. Listen, let me, let me tell you something. Let me tell you something also. Also the chat.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Talk to us.

[Chad Johnson]

Y'all listen to me now. I know I play around a lot, you know, when it comes to saying some of the things that I've done. But all of you know my history and my resume as a kicker, especially in NFL. I know what that feel like. I understand the pressures that go into what Justin Tucker is going through right now. I understand the pressures of already having the moniker, being the greatest kicker of all time based on what you did in the past. But what you've done in the past when it comes to the NFL is always, yeah, it ain't got nothing. Doing that. What have you done for me lately? Right now, I don't watch much baseball, but I can tell what Justin is in. He's in a slump. He's in the slump sometimes, huh?

[Shannon Sharpe]

He got the yips right now, Ocho.

[Chad Johnson]

Oh, yeah, he got the yips.

[Shannon Sharpe]

He got the yips right now.

[Chad Johnson]

Justin Tucker is in a slump. And you know what happened when players in our slump, it gets to you here. You got to be mentally strong here for one, in order to get back into rhythm, to get back to what you were doing in the past. Being the Justin Tucker that we're used to seeing. You got to envision that mother up here right now. It's getting to it. He think about missing the kick before he even kicked the ball, which is why he's missing the kicks.

[Shannon Sharpe]

And it's always. And they seem to be always veering to the left. Hey, always veering. If you look at them, it's kind.

[Chad Johnson]

Of like that's all mechanics. That's all mechanics. On your follow through on your swing, you got to stop your leg at a certain point if it's always veering to the left, if anything, adjust, adjust your split, adjust your alignment, face the ball up a different way because everything is happening and reoccurring the same way. Kickers watch film. I'm a kicker, I'm telling you. I know some of you might laugh at Me, I'm serious. I know what it is. I know what Justin Tucker's going through. He's going to be all right. I don't like the words that Harbaugh said. You don't, you don't do the best in the world like that just because he's going through a slump. Because you have quarterbacks, quarterback go through slump too. Sometimes even the best go through a bad season or a bad string of games where they just can't get themselves out of a funk. But at some point they turn it around, especially at the position. Once he gets it here, you got, you got to visualize it here. Once you visualize it here and get that confidence back, he'll be fine.

[Shannon Sharpe]

The question is, is he going to get it back this year? Because it doesn't matter if he gets it back next year because they might, they're trying to make the playoff this year and we. How many times have the Ravens. He kicked the Ravens to the super bowl as a rookie. As an undrafted rookie, he went to Denver and made the game winning kick and that launched him. That put him on his way. We've seen guys, you mentioned the sport. You go back and look at golf. You look at David Duvall. Duvall, you look at Ian Baker, Finch, they had the yips. You mentioned baseball. Look at Chuck Knob Block. Look at Rick and Kill. Rick and Kill had to move to the outfield because he couldn't get the ball over home plate. Chub Knoblock could not throw the ball. He's a second baseman. He could not throw it to the first baseman.

[Chad Johnson]

Yeah.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Steve Sax had a similar situation. It's h. We've seen guys do it and they, David Duvall left in Baker Fitz didn't end up leaving because they couldn't punch. Yeah. Hey, but listen, Rick and Kill moved to the outfield because he could not throw the ball over the plate. It's and, and it's, and it's, it's, it's, it's, it's tough. Lamar Jackson did not play a good game today. Oo he really never found his rhythm. Had multiple fumbles, but he recovered those. Had a lot of overthrows. He had, he had likely. He could have hit likely on that play.

[Chad Johnson]

I think you overshot him a little bit. Yeah.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yes.

[Chad Johnson]

Oh, yeah.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yeah.

[Chad Johnson]

You overshot him a little bit.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Likely stop running like. Well, he got to be throwing that to somebody else because, hey, he running. He saw where the ball going, so he just stopped me, like with somebody out there in front of me and then he come Back and did the fumble the ball, he was 6 and 15 on third down. The touchdown that he got, Ocho, that was late in the game because if they don't get that touchdown, they'll shut out in the second half. Lamar said his. His mother cursed him out after the game for not running more and not hitting the running lanes. The Ravens finished 205 in the red zone.

[Chad Johnson]

You know what?

[Shannon Sharpe]

He didn't play well today on a day in which the defense, they held, they held, they held and held. And they was needing Lamar to be Lamar.

[Chad Johnson]

You know what?

[Shannon Sharpe]

It didn't happen.

[Chad Johnson]

For things that watched tonight. I love Lamar. I love that Lamar has proved that. You know what? I'm not just a run of the ball. I'm gonna show you I can pass. I'm gonna show you I can pass. Listen, I know you could pass the ball, young bull, but I need you to be special, you know, on nights like tonight and games like tonight, I need you to be special in what makes you you. I need you to do what you was doing at Boynton Beach High School when I used to go watch you out there when you was a legitimate. Take off with the ball, baby. If it ain't there, sometimes you got to go through your progression. One, two and three. Sometimes you can look at one. If one ain't there, man, take off and go with that thing, right? Sometimes you got to go off script. Sometimes you got to go off script and do what makes you you, especially your two time MVP for a reason. I would have loved to see the Ravens win the game tonight. I would have loved for it, especially when your kicker's not playing as well as he should be. But who has to overcome that, right? Number eight, Lamar. When Lamar is the one that has to overcome Justin Tucker not playing as good as he should be. So those points you're missing, that puts the pressure and the onus back on the quarterback to overcome the kickers woes. Sometimes you don't. Yeah, that being a passage, boy, drop back. If that ain't there, man, take off with that. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm. I'm saying, I'm saying sometimes I do.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Think you tried to prove a point. God forgive me, I do. I do think sometime Lamar tries to prove that he's a thrower of the football.

[Chad Johnson]

He proves it already at the end.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Of doing what you do, who cares who? Okay, so why is his mom cussing him out?

[Chad Johnson]

Hey, you heard.

[Shannon Sharpe]

You heard what she said, right?

[Chad Johnson]

Boy, when you see the running lanes, what? Take off and do what you do? What you. What you mean you dangerous? Just as dangerous. You've already shown us you're just as dangerous with your arm as you are with your legs. But tonight is a night where we needed your legs, not your arm.

[Shannon Sharpe]

But we had this conversation in the AFC Championship game. You asked after the game, why did Lamar run more? So why do we keep having these conversation in these big meaningful games where we keep saying, lamar, why aren't you running the football more? Why are we continuously having these conversations?

[Chad Johnson]

Ojo, I don't know. I. I don't. I don't know who put.

[Shannon Sharpe]

So what? Because what are you trying to prove? Who can you prove that you led the league in touchdown passes? You got 29 touchdown passes. It's going to be you and Joe Burrow probably lead the league in touchdown passes this year. At this point in time, the only thing left for you to prove, Lamar, is that you can get to and win a Super Bowl. That's it.

[Chad Johnson]

Hold on.

[Shannon Sharpe]

That's it.

[Chad Johnson]

That's not only that necessary on throwing it, running it, crawling it, wheelchair. I don't care. I don't care how. You got to get there. God damn it. Just get there so we can get these mothers off your back by any means.

[Shannon Sharpe]

There will come a time. There will come a time that he will need to. Like, I'm gonna force Lamar Jackson to throw the football. I'm a firm believer that I would rather. I know he can kill me with his leg. I just can't let him outside the pocket. I can't let him. I can't let him outside the pocket, Ocho, because he's too dangerous out there. And he can throw the ball over my head. So I gotta keep him in. I gotta keep him in the box. Now I'm gonna try to make sure that I got a spy to entice him. Like, okay, I got somebody spying, and I want him. I want to trick him into thinking, yeah, yeah, go ahead and throw from the pocket, but you're playing into my hands, because that's really why I want you anyway.

[Chad Johnson]

But listen, this. This is the good thing about it. This is the good thing about the evolution of Lamar Jackson. This is about how good he's gotten even as a pocket passer. Okay, you want to put a spy. Okay, bet. Okay, boom. You want to have your DNS rush up field and keep contained. But I can beat you from the pocket. I prove that I can beat you from the pocket and be a Thor of the ball. I done showed you. I can drop back I could be in shotgun. I can rpo. I could. I can play action fake and read through my progressions from 1 to 3. I can't even come back to 1. If I got enough time, I can buy myself time. I can go script. I can do all the. All these different things from the pocket. So now that makes me that much more dangerous and multi dimensional from the quarterback position. I just don't like the fact that it. To me, it seems like sometimes Lamar wants to prove. Especially tonight. I'm going to show you I can beat you with my arms. Yes. When we know how special you are with the legs.

[Shannon Sharpe]

I'm trying.

[Chad Johnson]

There's a reason God gave you that gift where I need to again. I know. I know. Lamar gonna see this too. I know you're gonna see this.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Boy.

[Chad Johnson]

I need you. Like you did when you was at Boydton beach, huh? Stop playing, man. Come on.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Oh.

[Chad Johnson]

Matter of fact. Oh, wait, wait, wait. The Ravens lost tonight. Can you please tell me how many carries Derrick Henry had? D. Henry had 90 yard mark. He was over.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yeah, yeah. 32. They had. They had 32 rush attempts for 166 yards, which ain't bad. You. You could live with that. Lamar was 23 or 36, 237. He got sacked three times. I thought. I thought the Eagles D line did an unbelievable job of getting out there.

[Chad Johnson]

Yeah.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Jalen Carter is a monster. This is what I. This is what Jalen Carter was supposed to be a top five pick. I'm not so sure he would had he not had all those off the field transgressions while he was in college. He. They top. He's a top talent. He could rush the passer, he can stop the run. He's relentless. He's starting to see just how good he can be. He's the guy that you start circling. But I thought their defensive line did an unbelievable job of rushing but containing. Lamar. Lamar. Look, Lamar. You can't jump. You can't run up the field on him now. You can jump out the window on you. But I thought Sweatt and I thought some of those other guys did an unbelievable job. Boy, they got a. That Bron, that Zach brown, that middle 53.

[Chad Johnson]

Boy, he nice boy. Hey, he nice boy.

[Shannon Sharpe]

The Steelers Defeated the Bengals 44 to 38. Shootout. Not only did the defense. Offense. Excuse me. The offense moved the ball at will. But the Steelers defense forced three turnovers, including a fourth quarter scooping score by Peyton Wilson. Pickens led the Steelers with 74 yards receiving on three catches with a touchdown. But drew a 15, but drew 15 yard penalties after two of his catches. After the game, Picking said there wasn't anything he needed to do differently in those situations. Tomlin said he just got to grow up. This is emotional game. These divisional games are big. He got a target on his back because he's George. He understands that. But he's got to grow up. He's just got to grow up in a hurry. Yeah, that'll cost your game in the playoffs.

[Chad Johnson]

George, George, listen, I'm a hit young bull. I got, I got Georgie number. I'm going to talk to him. Listen, take some of that, take some of that fun, you know, some of that energy that you display that is, that is that you're being penalized for and turn that into entertainment. Turn it into entertainment. It's okay to be the villain. Enjoy being a villain. Embrace being the villain. But do it in a way where it's organized chaos within the game of football. Have fun within the game of football without having to get those penalties. I'm telling you, it's going to pay dividends in the long run. He has to understand that, you know, the gun gesture, you know, in the end zone, you know, after you can't.

[Shannon Sharpe]

But you know you can't do that. And I know chat fans, I know air guns and bullets don't kill anybody. But the NFL said, we don't want that. If your boss tell you you cannot come to work with Kathy khakis, don't bring your ass to work with khakis. Yeah, I mean, I, I don't get it. Ocho, we knew Ocho, if we wore our socks a certain height, the NFL said, we want you to pull, we want your knees covered. I expected to get a fine if I met more than two planes and I didn't pull my socks up. But you can't say, well, what did the sock. And I said, and I used to ask all the time, what does my socks got to do? They say, shannon, we want uniformity. They say, shannon, we let you do yours. And then somebody going to come out there with footies and then somebody going to come out here and then everybody going to start looking like an all tournament team. They say, we want, we say we want everybody. We want every. We want uniform. Shannon, we're the National Football League and we're trying to set examples. I say, okay, but o. They remember they cut that out before you got to the league. The throat slash adjustment. They cut that out.

[Chad Johnson]

Listen. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You can't do that.

[Shannon Sharpe]

They cut that out. Anything. Anything violent or sexual in nature. Air humping ain't got nothing. Nobody ever got pregnant by air humping. No do no dry. No dry hunching. Yeah, but they cut it out. So Pete fans, please stop saying because you know the rule. George knows the rules.

[Chad Johnson]

You can't do that outside of knowing the rules. You got to understand and to remember those rules when you engage in war, at the time of war, when you plan, you said, you got to remember that. All he need to do. I'm telling you, I'm gonna talk to him. I'm gonna talk to him. I'm gonna hit him tomorrow. I'm. Bro, you need to take good. That same energy and the stuff you want to do and turn it into something else in a fun entertainment type of way where it's. It's engaging for us and for those watching, where it doesn't cost your team. There's a way to do it. I mastered that.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yeah.

[Chad Johnson]

You know, there's a way to do it. You know, as far as your players concerned.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yes.

[Chad Johnson]

And you could keep on playing ball, but I don't want. This is what I don't want. Because the young. Because they're young. So Coach Tomlin has to be careful with what he say. Because you don't want to lose a player like that up here, huh? Up here, you don't want to take too much. You don't want to pull the reins back too much hard. Because you're gonna lose. What makes George Pickens. George Pickens. But you can't hurt your team like that, though. You can't. You can't.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Thank you. We just saw this on Thursday with Jameson Williams. Yeah, we just saw it Thursday where.

[Chad Johnson]

He threw the ball in the guy's face.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Remember? On the sidelines. We just saw it. Ocho. If the. If. Even if I'm speeding, if I'm going eight in a school zone, I can't tell the fool, ain't no kids in school. You can't go. Ain't in a school. In a school zone, bro. It's still a school zone whether the kids are in school or not. You can't make that gesture even if you have no gun, even if there is no bullet, you can't make a sexual gesture. You can't make a violent gesture. So please chat. Please, people, stay off the Internet. Talk about ain't no gun. Ain't nobody ever been killed by that. Because you can't do it. The league says we're going to penalize you. But it's not the league penalizing you, you're penalizing your team.

[Chad Johnson]

And it hurts you today, but it happens to you when it. When it. When it matter most. And that's. Yeah.

[Shannon Sharpe]

When you least expect it. You get an unsports black conduct penalty. And now what was a field goal? They back you up. Because a lot of times, Ocho, that's after the fact. Now they back you up. What happens if it's second down and you get one of those? The down counts. So now Instead of being second and five, it's second and. Or it's third and five, third and 20, or it's third and 15. You see, it's things like that you have to. You have to think about in real time. Ocho is too late for you and I to have this conversation. Say, Ocho, yeah, we tried to tell him it's too late. It's too late. So just learn from others that have made those mistakes so you don't have to be a footnote. Got a costly penalty. I. I don't, Ocho, but I try to tell you now, now people will tell you, Joe Burrow played great. Ocho might come out here and tell you, Joe Pearl played great. His defense. If your defense is bad, Ocho as an offense, what can't you do if.

[Chad Johnson]

Your defense is bad.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Tell the people at home how many turnovers.

[Chad Johnson]

But before you say that, how many did they leave?

[Shannon Sharpe]

How many points did they lead to? To the sports team?

[Chad Johnson]

21. Well, 17. How much? How many?

[Shannon Sharpe]

They got a scooping score and they got a field goal right before.

[Chad Johnson]

That's 10.

[Shannon Sharpe]

That's 10 points, right?

[Chad Johnson]

Can I say something real quick?

[Shannon Sharpe]

Okay.

[Chad Johnson]

Just for the chat, for better context, let me get. Let me get energized real quick. You know, it's hard for me to defend my bangles. It's hard for me to defend my bangles. But for better context in those turnovers. Now, one was a tip. Cam Hayward tipped it. Boom. Pick, scoop and score. Boom. Running with the ball, T.J. watt, great play. And I think it was a highsmith. Is it Highsmith that beat Orlando Brown off the edge? Came around. Yeah.

[Shannon Sharpe]

I don't think it was high. It might have been the other guy. The other guy. I think it was like. It might have been. It might have been 51. Wilson, he might have called the. Zach, answer.

[Chad Johnson]

Listen for one in that scenario, Orlando Brown, I'm not sure what the Bengals are doing. There's no reason why Orlando Brown should be on the field if he can't walk, if he can't if you can't walk, that means you can't play left tackle. There's no reason you should be on the field. But if you are on the on the field, then that's the onus is on the offensive line or the goddamn offensive coordinator. Hell, let's slide protection that way because he's not fully healthy. Obviously. We saw they can't. You gonna slide protection over there? We got to leave mem by itself. One on one. Yes, I know. I. Listen to me.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Huh? Oh, well. T.J. was about to break the NFL reference.

[Chad Johnson]

Look what happened. Look what happened. That cost us that call. If he's hurt, goddamn flashes left. Put the running back up there and goddamn Chip got. Put the tight end over there and Chip, you got to do something to help him. If you have a player out there that is hurt and it cost us offensively, I get it. That was a scoop and score, Ocho.

[Shannon Sharpe]

But your guy has got to take care of the football, Ocho. You know, if your defense. If your defense, you have one of the two or three worst defensive football, you can't turn it over.

[Chad Johnson]

Listen, there's nothing I can say. There's nothing I can say about that. But it is his blind side though, that. That is his blind side. He has no idea that two seconds after the snap that somebody's barreling down and knocking the ball out his hands again. You got. Listen, I'm not making no excuses. You got to have two hands on the ball.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yeah, you do that. Hold on. So I can make that case for Daniel Jones. All them sacks that ain't on Daniel Jones, all those turnovers, every quarterback that turned the ball over because what they're doing is that you're making excuses for Joy B. Because he had 300 yard pass and three touchdowns.

[Chad Johnson]

I made no. So every quarter I would just give you better context how the fumbles happen.

[Shannon Sharpe]

So who cares?

[Chad Johnson]

Yes, sir.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Did he have the ball in his hand? So all those fumbles and interception, that what you call them? We see, we saw Patrick Mahomes two years ago. How many caroms did he have? Seven interceptions and like three or four pick sixes that went through the receiver's hands. When you fumble the ball and your defense is bad. All I know is this. Patrick Mahomes got to the super bowl with the second. With the second or third worst defense in the NFL. That is the bargains. Because what has happened is that we've allowed Joe Burrow and he's. He's a really good. He's great quarterback. But we've Allowed that one year run to taint us because we feel he can do no wrong. Because every year he's ranked above Lamar. Lamar is more accomplished than Joe Burrow. We rank him ahead of Josh Allen. He throws a beautiful ball, he puts up big numbers. But at what point in time do we hold them accountable? Like we have all the other great quarterbacks that haven't fulfilled the promise.

[Chad Johnson]

Right.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Of what we expected them to be? Because we make excuses. We like, well, his blind side in my home's offensive line. Is my home's offensive line any worse than Cincinnati?

[Chad Johnson]

Them two tackles bad, one team got.

[Shannon Sharpe]

11 and one record. And so, and that's the thing when you just, if you, Ocho, if you just looked at the stats, you're like, this man threw for 309 and three touchdowns, but he had a scooping score that the ball was in his hand. That gave him seven points. And then he had another former that gave him 10 points. So now if I take those 10 points off the board, how many points did they. They scored 44. If I take those tens. Cincinnati scored 38. They win the game. 38, 34.

[Chad Johnson]

Yeah.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Ta da.

[Chad Johnson]

You right. Listen, listen. I'm already hurting right now as it is. You know, I don't need you to continue to, to, to pour salt in my wounds. I know, I know because I, I, I, I've been on, I've been on my.

[Shannon Sharpe]

So we talked about this, Ocho, and.

[Chad Johnson]

I've been continued to let down. I've been continued let down. Week out, huh?

[Shannon Sharpe]

Well, get your ass off it right now. I'm off of it because, you know, you know, the higher you up you are, the easier you easily. With snipers shooting it. What are they trying to do? See, when snipers are shooting, they had a higher elevation. But when you show your head, that's when they can put that bang on you. You better get low to the ground, get out the box, say, hey, God. Hey, man, I thought my baby was gonna be better this year. It's over for y'all.

[Chad Johnson]

Gonna be better. Matter of fact. And listen, I was listening to Joe. Joe said we could win seven of the last nine. There's a possibility. So when he said that in front of the. I was hyped.

[Shannon Sharpe]

How I was hype. I was ready.

[Chad Johnson]

I've been talking, I've been talking cash. You know what? I've been making bets with Ryan Clark. I can't even eat McDonald's to January now. Yeah, but you know what?

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yes.

[Chad Johnson]

Listen.

[Shannon Sharpe]

And you can't say all till January.

[Chad Johnson]

Oh, because we lost.

[Shannon Sharpe]

You lost. You lost, like, five in a row.

[Chad Johnson]

Hey, somebody say I can't say foot or ball because my bank.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Foot or ball? Nope. Nope.

[Michael Lewis]

Hey there, it's Michael Lewis, author of Going Infinite Moneyball, the Blind side and Liar's Poker. On every season of my podcast, against the Rules, I take a broad look at various characters in American life. The referee, the coach, the expert. My next season is all about fans and what the rise of sports betting is doing to them, to the teams, and even to my family. I'm heading to Las Vegas and New Jersey and beyond to understand America's newest form of legalized gambling. Listen to against the rules on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Even you, Ocho, you playing the game. I said, ocho, how y'all gonna go out on a run when your defense is historically bad? Your quarterback literally has to play a perfect game every time. One turnover. Because first of all, your defense is not really gonna be able to stop anybody. Now, you turn the ball over, you give them. And if you give them points on your possession. Oh, don't cry. No, no, don't cry. No, don't cry. You ain't crying yet, Chad. Don't let it fool you. You should be crying.

[Chad Johnson]

We go.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Sorry. We go.

[Chad Johnson]

We gonna be all right. We gonna be all right.

[Shannon Sharpe]

No, y'all ain't. Next year. Y'all ain't gonna be all right this year. Hey, man, you don't got the people. You had people in Cincinnati believe in you, man. Ocho say we gonna be all right. Not everybody. Not everybody ain't doing nothing but eating chilling hot dogs. Stand up. Sit up in your chair. Come closer. You blurry. You blurry. Bring your ass back into focus. Y'all got Ultro crying. Bingo. Bingo. What y'all. Bingo nation bingo country. What y'all.

[Chad Johnson]

We'll be back. We'll be back next year.

[Shannon Sharpe]

That's what Custard said when they seen his ass out there. He said, I'll be back. And they ain't seen his ass. He went up a little big horn and ain't seen his ass since. That was in 1875. 78. What was that? When the little. When did I think that was? Somewhere between 75 and 78.

[Chad Johnson]

I don't care. I don't care. What nobody say that. That's okay.

[Shannon Sharpe]

We.

[Chad Johnson]

We had a bad season. Sometimes people had bad seasons. Sometimes people have some of the greatest players on offense, you know, and. And sometimes things don't go the way you want it to go. Like sometimes in life.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Hold on. You can talk your ass off. I ain't gonna leave. We ain't finna. We didn't come here for that.

[Chad Johnson]

I'm trying to. I'm trying to laugh and keep from crying. Let's check. Let's change the topic, man. Shoot, man.

[Shannon Sharpe]

No, we ain't gonna change no topic. That ain't what we do. We don't duck no chat. Do y'all expect Nightcap to duck or topic? Do y'all expect us to move on so quickly? No. Lesson. We gotta address it. Your defense is historically bad. They've been bad. But if you go back and look at it, the Bengals had Kansas City dead to right. What happened? Drip, sack, scoop and score. Touchdown. They had the Ravens again, dead to right at home. What happened, Ocho? Joey B pick, Marlon Humphrey. At some point in time, even your great numbers can be overshadowed if you are the one that puts the ball in harm's way. He's done it. We've seen it. But nobody. Everybody just wants to look at the stats. Oh, he played great. What about those three turnovers that gave the other team the football or gave the other team points? Do we not count that? We count it for everybody else. We rip quarterbacks that turn the ball over. At the end of the day, it's his responsibility to take care of the football. As great a player as he is.

[Chad Johnson]

All this is saying to me is Joe Burrow is going to basically have to do. He has to put on the Superman cape because our defense is playing so bad. Right? He has to do what Josh Allen is doing. If Josh Allen can do it and he can overcome himself and not make the mistakes he made in the past and has his team playing the way he has them playing, Joe Burrow has to do the same thing, and he has to do it with a much better supporting cast offensively. That's it. Sounds easy. It sounds easy, but it's not easy to do. Josh Allen makes it look easy, but it's not easy to do. But I understand. I understand where you're coming from.

[Shannon Sharpe]

I. I remember when Peyton Manning had those bad defenses in Indy and. And even. And even he was putting up those numbers. Oh, hey, man. It can't get done in the big game. Peyton, Manny, yada, yada, yada. Even though his defense was historically bad, y'all didn't make the excuses for Peyton that you make for Joe Burrow. And I just need to know why. I got time.

[Chad Johnson]

I took a nap today, too. I Took a nap today after we lost.

[Shannon Sharpe]

No, we're good. Well, I need to tell. I need you to tell me why. Why did Joe Burrow getting a pass we never gave?

[Chad Johnson]

I said he didn't play well. I said it didn't play well. Now, when you said about the three turnovers, I just wanted to add a little context on the turnover. Just say they weren't all his fault. But on the stat sheet, guess who. Guess whose name is by them? Turnovers. Yeah.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Ocho, where the strip.

[Chad Johnson]

Hold on.

[Shannon Sharpe]

When have we not given a strip.

[Chad Johnson]

Sack to the quarterback sheet? Who are the turnovers on? Whose name is there? The quarterback. I know. I'm. I'm just saying. I'm just. Yeah, I was just trying to give a little context on what happened or whatnot. But he didn't play. He didn't play as well as he needs to play. Joe Burrow needs to understand, and I'm sure he understands, and he will have this conversation with his head coach, with his officer coordinator, and with his quarterback coach. You have to protect the ball. You have to. In order for us to even have a chance to win going on from this season and later on in the future, you have to be the best at protecting the ball and not turning it over. Because if our defense is not playing as well or playing the way they played this year, at any point, there is no way for us to overcome those.

[Shannon Sharpe]

No weakness zero.

[Chad Johnson]

No mistakes.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Hold up. And we not finna move on. Cause I'm not finna let you do this to Russ. And Russ, you trust. You say you love Russ. Well, let's give Russ some flowers.

[Chad Johnson]

Standing on the soapbox for Russ, too. Now, don't do that.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yeah, you were Russ. 29 of 38. 414, which is a career high. Three touchdowns, one pick. He was sensational. No, today, his career high. He knew, like, look, as good as our defense is, their offense is going to score. It is incumbent upon me as the quarterback and one of the leaders of this. Well, he is the de facto leader on offense. Oh, we could have our way with these guys, boys. And think about it. Ocho, you did get seven.

[Chad Johnson]

That was good. Listen.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Boom.

[Chad Johnson]

Pointed attack. Nice little jam. Boom. Eyes on. Eyes on the ball. Or we going the other way. I ski.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Oski.

[Chad Johnson]

Let's go. Yeah, that. That was right. I thought. Listen, after that play, I thought we was going to run away with the game.

[Shannon Sharpe]

That was a. Yeah. And I remember. Do y'all remember when Peyton Manning was losing to Tom Brady? Oh, he had never beat Tom And Peyton was winning mvp. But Tom was winning Super Bowls. He wasn't putting up numbers like Peyton, but he was winning. Oh, Tom. Peyton would never win. I remember he got beat 41 nothing by Chad Pennington. He got beat by Billy Bowley. Oh, they were just ripping Payton. Ripping him. His defense weren't very good. He's putting up even his owner. When Peyton. I don't. I. I won't. I don't want. I want championships. I don't want no Star wars numbers. Because he feels that Peyton underperformed. And now. And Peyton. Go back and look at Peyton numbers. Yeah. That man won four MVPs, and all of them wasn't in those super bowl seasons. Fans, media, like, killed him. Me, too. I was one of them. Yep. Me, too. Yep. Go back and look at what I was on cbs. Beat him up. Everybody did. But now. Well, Shannon, his defense. Y'all didn't say that. When Peyton had a bad defense. Y'all just said he couldn't stand up to Tom Brady. He lost the Super Bowl. Go look at paint numbers in the Super Bowl. But he had that one big six. Tracy Porter read it right. They came with a zero blitz. He undercut the under route and he pieced them out. Y'all gotta stop this. Y'all. Y'all got very, very short memories. But what I'm saying over Cho, what I'm seeing, if we like somebody, we'll make every excuse in the world for him. Yes. I don't give a damn what he does or what he or she does if we like you. But I'm gonna call it straight down the middle. Y'all know how I am. Now, y'all get on me and say, shannon. Yes, I do. Y'all know I do. Go back and check my track record of cbs. If y'all don't think I call it down.

[Chad Johnson]

Me, too. Me, too. Me, too. Yeah. Check my track record. Yeah.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Russell. Hey. See, but here's the thing. Hey, guys with people, y'all keep saying. Get that man. His flowers. Don't give me my flowers. I'll plant my own damn garden. I'll grow my own damn. Hold on. And I pick my own. I'm tired of y'all. Y'all don't want to get people. Russ. Plant your own damn flowers. Grow your own garden and pluck your own flowers and put them on display. I don't need nobody. Don't give me no more flowers. I don't want them on the road.

[Chad Johnson]

But I got a notepad. Hey, I don't need Y'all to give me my flowers because I'm gonna. What you say? Plant. Plant my own.

[Shannon Sharpe]

I want to play my own garden.

[Chad Johnson]

Yeah.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yes, I. Whatever, whatever. Whatever you want. What you want? You want roses, you want daisies, you want millets, you want petunia? You know, I want steady.

[Chad Johnson]

I want tulips. Because I thought, hey, yeah, I saw a movie story and Lena Horn, she like tulips, so I'm gonna give me some. Too loose.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Russ. Listen, Russ is in the ideal situation. He's with a coach that understands quarterbacks. Not that he can coach him, but he understands the psyche of a quarterback. And the one thing you can't do with a quarterback is beat him up mentally. And I think Sean Payton beat him up mentally. For whatever reason, Sean never embraced Russ. He never gave. He never gave. He tolerated him. He's like, I got a year with him. And I'm not so sure that Russ could have done anything other than going to the super bowl that would have ingratiated himself with Sean Payton. Sean Payton has a guy now and he, you know, hey, he has a young guy. And young guys, for the most part, Ocho, they're happy to be there, even though their first round pick and they can stomach a little more. Russ is a vet. Russ has been to Super Bowls. Russ is a multiple time Pro bowl player. He's like, why are you talking to me like that?

[Chad Johnson]

Yeah, hey, okay, go ahead, go ahead.

[Shannon Sharpe]

He's been.

[Chad Johnson]

No, no, no. Watching, obviously, you know, because you got on me about it is I've been giving Russ's flowers for a very long time. Even when he was in Denver, you know, you was getting into him because going the way they should be going. I always stood on that soapbox for Russell Wilson because I understood there's no way. There's no way that a player like Russ, that was with the Seattle Seahawks, that has played well at a high level for so many years, can all of a sudden could go to Denver and things just weren't right. I think the situation and the scenario that he was in and the pressure that Sean Payton, who kept challenging him, berating him as a head coach, I didn't. I just knew that wasn't the right fit. And I understood once he got over there with the Steelers, I said it soon as he got there. I say, man, this is perfect. He's going with the right coach, the right type of coach, winning coach, with the right mentality that knows how to deal with him. And Arthur Smith has put Russell Wilson in some great positions and Understanding his strengths, his strengths and his weaknesses. Knowing what he can do and what he can't do anymore that he used to do in Seattle and has been paying dividends off of him. Man. And it's been perfect. It's been perfect.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yeah. He's been, he, look, he's been, he's been good. I don't know if he'll, he would have ever been what he is right now in Denver with Sean Payton. Look, that first year, we got to talk that up because ain't nobody being good under Nathaniel Hackett. Ain't nobody. He got fired in Denver and he lost his play calling duties in Green Bay. I mean, excuse me, in the jets. So nobody. So we can, we can't say. You say, you know what Russian, we gonna just. That first year now. Whatever happened with you? Like I said, I don't know. But it just seems like he was never ingratiated. Sean didn't put his arms around him and like I'm happy to have you as my quarterback for whatever reasons. And it was best that they go accept. You know, you go your way, I go mine.

[Chad Johnson]

Right.

[Shannon Sharpe]

And we're both better for it. The Broncos are doing quite well. The Pittsburgh Steelers are leading their division. They're doing extremely well. And I'm happy for both because this, this match wasn't going to work in Denver. Not right. Not Russ and Sean Payton. Maybe with somebody else, but not that. But Russ needed to go.

[Chad Johnson]

Yeah.

[Shannon Sharpe]

And get built back up. He had to start. He had to start. He had to start from scratch. He had to start from scratch. And what better place to go than with Mike Tomlinson who's on, who's on firm, good foundation. Oil firm. He has a firm foundation. He ain't going nowhere. He ain't going nowhere. And so yeah, Rogers a long shot. They're talking about potentially. I said something. What, what did that article about they potentially like they don't know if he's going to start moving forward.

[Chad Johnson]

They're gonna bench who in favor of who?

[Shannon Sharpe]

Aaron Rodgers. It don't matter because I'm getting the same results.

[Chad Johnson]

Listen, you think about Mitchell. Aaron Rodgers over there in New York right now, he will flip every table. He gonna take a bite.

[Shannon Sharpe]

That's okay. He gonna be gone next year. We'll straighten it back up. He gonna be gone anyway.

[Chad Johnson]

They, they, they, they wouldn't, they, they wouldn't do that. And he, he not gonna go out quietly. I don't see Aaron Rod is the type of quarterback that gonna take benching him. Well, I, I don't I don't see him taking a will.

[Shannon Sharpe]

What are you gonna do? Go on P. Mac show and have express some conspiracy theories talking about that that's liberals.

[Chad Johnson]

Act a fool and make a hair while he's there. Act a fool and make a hair while he's there. He just seemed like the type that would do that.

[Shannon Sharpe]

That's okay. Yeah, he didn't play well but I'm sure you know, I'm sure they'll say he played well. He was 21 of 39, 185, two touchdowns, one interception. Ocho and Seattle trying to get a game away in the first quarter. I've never seen return from return to fumble that many times and I've never seen anything like that Ocho. So the very next play began 19. So from that point on Seattle outscored him 19 to nothing. Rogers had the long shot of return. They asked Uber after the game about was he contemplating a quarterback change instead of shutting down speculation with a direct no, he replied not. You know as of today I don't.

[Chad Johnson]

I don't, I don't like answers like that. I don't like what Harbaugh said when they talked about and asked him in Jun Justin Tucker returning. I won't address that right now. What you mean right now we talk about the greatest kick of all time but anyway now back to the topic at hand. Listen, Aaron Rodgers, I mean man, man, I mean it's, he looked bad.

[Shannon Sharpe]

What did Ocho the man about to be 41. He's coming, he's, he's coming off an a, an Achilles injury which is one of the toughest injuries for an athlete to overcome. A young athlete. Imagine one that's 40. What did you expect him to look like? But see if you honest Ocho, anybody that's honest about Aaron Rodgers you labeled a hater and they try to make it about all the other things. Go back and I don't need y'all to do me a favor. Go back and check my track record about Aaron, about when I was on cbs. I've never denied his ability to throw the football. I always catch question I saw some character issues that concerned me.

[Chad Johnson]

Yeah.

[Shannon Sharpe]

And I'm gonna leave it at that. Now with that being said he didn't play well. Aaron Rodgers has not played well this year and it's okay to say that. Oo yeah. He's still a four time league mvp. He's still a three time first a four time first team all pro. He's still a Super bowl mvp. He's still A transcendent, historically great quarterback, one of the greatest quarterback. But this year he hasn't played well. And all of those accolades that we. That been bestowed upon him, and rightfully so.

[Chad Johnson]

Yeah.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Ain't got nothing to do with right now.

[Chad Johnson]

You right about that. You know, it's unfortunate. It's unfortunate. I'm. I'm not sure. I'm sure we've seen quarterback decline. I don't think we've seen quarterbacks decline in such a manner at, you know, this fast. I think maybe because of the injury. Due to the injury. I think it kind of sped up and expedited the process. I was hoping things would work out. I was hoping things would work out because I was one of the few that said, oh, shoot, Devontae and just coming to the Jets. Oh, they finna be. They finna be. Hell, now, you know, Alan Lazard and him having the pieces and having Breeze Hall. I thought they were gonna be all girl. And having the defense that they did have. Ah, things aren't. Things aren't the same. Hell, Aaron Rodgers playing bad. The goddamn defense ain't too much to talk about either.

[Shannon Sharpe]

But they were hoping that Aaron Rodgers could. Yes. What? Peyton, you remember now, hold on. People remember that before, the year before Tom Brady got to the Bucks, Jameis threw for 5,200 yards. 5,100 yards and 30 touchdowns. Bruce Allen just felt that if we minimize the turnovers, we could be able to play our team. The year that Peyton got to the Broncos, they won the division, but they were 8 and 8. Peyton comes in, they go 13 and 3. They get the number one seed. Now they get knocked out in the divisional round, but you see the improvement the next year. Peyton wins mvp. He breaks all the records. They go to the super bowl, they get demolished, but they did go. You see Tampa every year Brady was there, they make the playoffs. So they were expecting. They say, look, that guy coming in, he should be able to elevate our offense. We got Garrett Wilson, we got some players. We got nice running back with Allen and Breeze Hall. We got solid tight ends. Not great, but they're good, they're adequate. And a defense. But I said one thing, and I kept reiterating. I say, you're under the. You're under the. The notion that the defense stays exactly the same and there's no slippage. Because if there's slippage, then what? Oh, man, you hate. You just so.

[Chad Johnson]

Yeah, well, listen, there's been slippage and there's no flex all. There's no flex all the Stop the Leak the volume.

[Michael Lewis]

Hey there, it's Michael Lewis, author of Going Infinite Moneyball, the Blind side and Liars Poker. On the latest season of my podcast, against the Rules, I'm exploring what it means to be a sports fan in America and what the rise of sports betting is doing to our teams, our states, and ourselves. Join me and listen to against the rules on America's number one podcast network, iHeartradio. Open your free iHeart app and search against the Rules. Listen to against the rules on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.