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Nightcap Hour 1: Seahawks TOSS Jaxson Smith-Njigba the BAG + Tracy McGrady JOINS Nightcap to talk NBA, Michael Jordan & MORE
01:38:10
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- [00:00]
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- [03:00]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
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- [07:24]
Uncle Mac
Listen, un. Being 24 years old and seeing the improvement from his rookie year, obviously not being able to get the catches and numbers that he wanted because he had other receivers that were taking some of those catches and production away from him. This is exactly what you get with a player of his caliber. This is what I expected. This is what we, we talked about on the show. Understand that he was going to reset the market at some point. He's a special player. He can play out the backfield, can play on the outside, he can play on the inside. They move around and use it. Use him in a multitude of ways where he's always going to be successful no matter what you want to do. And defensively, he's a nightmare to deal with because he can play so many different positions on the field, rightfully so. He's being paid as one of the best in the league, if not the best.
- [08:08]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
I love the fact that teams reward their players. They know joshing around. There ain't no prove it. I proved it. You've seen each single year that I've gotten better and, and I'm not paying you on what you've done. 100 catches as a 24 year old. He had 119 catches. So you see each year he's getting better and better and better. I don't see any slack off. I, I just, I just love when, I love when teams reward their guys. Yes, he's been nothing but a model citizen from what we know. He seems like a team guy. He wants to do what is in the best interest of the team also. But I want to be fairly compensated. I don't like this. I don't like this, this jotling around and oh, we got other things to take care of and we like to see and prove it in X, Y and Z. I don't like that. That's just me. I mean some people like, well, hey, make them prove it again. Like the George Pickett, the man to show you what he can do.
- [08:59]
Uncle Mac
Yes.
- [08:59]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Either you believe in me or you don't. If you don't let me walk and if you do compensate me for what I'm doing and what you believe. The question is, excuse me, what do you believe JSN will do moving forward in 20, 27 and 28? Do you believe he's going to get better or do you believe he'll regress? If you believe he'll regress, you don't do this deal. You make him play it out because you picked up his fifth year option. If you believe he's going to get better, you reward him for what he's done.
- [09:30]
Uncle Mac
Yeah. And most of the time when it comes to players that they. Players that are somewhat of a headache, players that some would have off field issues, players that are somewhat of a headache even on the field, and then that's when they play that game. We want you to prove it again. Sometimes they will enforce better than themselves. We don't think you could do it again and we don't think you're worth what we should pay you. What the market says you should know. So we want to see you do it again. Hell, they did it. What? They did it with Chase, huh? They, they force him to bet on himself when they didn't pay him. They could, they could, they could have got him early. And what happens? He goes out there and has a historic season. Now you have no choice but to back up the brink Truck form.
- [10:11]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Well, you got to pay him an extra $30 million where you probably could have had him somewhere in the neighborhood. 36, 37 million. Yeah, you got to pay him an extra 3 million per year over the course of five years. So an extra $15 million you could have saved yourself. And probably, I mean, look, and not now, but probably when he was. Chase was going through this. Man, y' all gonna make. Y' all gonna do this. Make me play on this board, but make me play this fourth year after y' all told me y' all gonna do this. There were probably a little animosity, a little resentment, but once you got the deal done, it all goes away. I knock on wood. And very thankfully that Chase was able to get through the season, having that historic season, a triple crown.
- [10:48]
Uncle Mac
Yes.
- [10:48]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
And now they don't have any choice. Now you add his mercy. You had his mercy. Whatever. Whatever he decides the check should be for, you don't have no choice but to write it.
- [10:59]
Uncle Mac
Right. And in. The funny thing that ownership GMS that they bank on is they big on you loving football when you love the game too much. Yeah. I mean, listen, we love it, but you got to be able to separate the business side of it and understanding what your true value is. Because if they know you love the game, they know you know what? We can play games with him because we know he want to be here. We know he's gonna show up. So at some point you gotta put, you gotta put. You gotta put the nails in the cross and you gotta stand your ground to get what you deserve. Because the business side of things is Rough. And it's an ugly game that they do play.
- [11:36]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
But see, the difference is. Oo. It's not like we can go play baseball. Dion had baseball to fall back on base. Bo has baseball to fall back on football players. What do we got? It's not like we. We're just getting into it. It's not like we're in year 10. We've accumulated these big contracts. We could have invested. Somebody come to us. Hey, check this out, Ocho. I got this Uber deal don't nobody really know. But I ain't made this thing public. Let me get 250. And I'm telling you, it's gonna. It's gonna quadruple. It's gonna 20 extra money. Yeah, we don't get that. You see, owners, they got other businesses other than football.
- [12:13]
Uncle Mac
A lot of them. Yes.
- [12:14]
Tracy McGrady
So.
- [12:14]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
So. Exactly. So, yeah, football, it might be their biggest business, but they got a couple of other businesses that's probably bringing in 10, 15, 20, $30 million a year. We don't have that. If we don't get that football money, what we got.
- [12:28]
Uncle Mac
No, I mean, listen, you might have small pride, but you ain't got nothing that can create generational wealth like that signing bonus and that four or five
- [12:38]
Tracy McGrady
years that you get promoters.
- [12:40]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Exactly. So I was glad. I. I like to see. I like, I like when teams do this. I like when they take care of their young players. I like when they say, you know what? We believe in you. We don't believe in what you see, what you've done, but we believe you're going to replicate that. We don't believe that there's going to be a drop off in your play or production. They kept things in place. Look, Sam Darnold. Sam Darnold's there. You got you. You go and you resign. Rashid Shaheed, obviously there's like, you know what?
- [13:07]
Uncle Mac
Yeah.
- [13:07]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Kenneth Walker, we'd love to have you, but not at that number, because we believe sharp enough. Charbonnet. Excuse me, Charbonnet. And somebody else can feel that role. And you know, running backs, unless you're elite of the elite, they don't value you like that. Unless you are Derek Henry or Saquon or Jameer Gibbs. They don't. They don't value. And you know, they just. They just decided to value James Cook. Jonathan Taylor's another guy. But for the most part, they don't really value running backs. Oh, we feel we can get somebody out of college or we can get somebody a fifth or sixth or seventh round draft pick to give us. Okay, so he gives us 100 yards or 200 yards less in a season than what you give him. But we only played in 3 to 4 million versus 13, 14, 15 million.
- [13:54]
Uncle Mac
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Especially when it comes to the running back position. You have to be exponentially better than everybody else. You have to be a difference maker on that field. And you have to do, you have to be able to do more than one, more than just, you know, play running back out the backfield. Derek Henry is probably the last one, probably going to be like that. Everyone else has to be versatile and be able to use in a multitude of ways, like a James Cook, like a Christian McCaffrey, like a Jameer Gibbs. I mean, those, those are special. Yeah, Saquon, those are generational talents that don't come around often.
- [14:26]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
So JSN gets rewarded for his early start to his great career. He's already over, you know, 3, 500 yards, 3, 500 yards in three years. I mean, you look at where yards per game went from 37 to 67 to now he's 106, four touchdowns, six touchdowns, 10 touchdowns, and he went from 93 targets to 137 targets to 163 targets. So, boy, congratulations, young man, on a great start to a career. Congratulations on money earned. You know, you don't get what you deserve, you get what you earn. And I believe, I believe he's earned. A reporter as JSN today you were offensive player of the year. You won the Super Bowl. Right now the highest paid receiver. What's next for you? JSN response. The only thing better than one super bowl is, is two Super Bowls.
- [15:25]
Uncle Mac
Can you imagine, can you imagine him going back to back as difficult as is? Can you imagine going back? Listen, the defense is still intact. Yeah, one, one or two players spot they at the DB position. But Witherspoon, phenomenal talent, everyone else is, is still intact defensively for them. I mean, offensively, you have everybody coming back. You got Rashid, he locked up, locked up again for another year. I, I think they have a good chance to repeat themselves and going back again.
- [15:56]
Tracy McGrady
What you think?
- [15:58]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Yeah, I think they got a good chance. It's just so hard. That's why, I mean, you don't see it very often. I mean, you got to be really, really, really special because you have to, you have to dodge other teams raiding your home for your best players and you got to dodge the injury bug. That's what, that's what, that's a lot of times that's what happens. Oh, yeah, you, you're going to lose some players. You're going to lose some key players, Right? But that injury bug to a key player and we hopefully that does not happen. You know, the quarterback is the most most important player. You can ill afford to lose him for any extent an extended period of time. Now in 98, we lost John for four weeks due to a hamstring injury. Bubby came in, who was a veteran quarterback and did a great job of keeping the Ferrari. And I told Bubby when he got. I said, look here, bro, just keep it in first. You, hey, you don't need to see how fast it'll run if we get it in the second, third, fourth or fifth. Hey, we don't need to worry about that. Just keep it in first gear and don't crash it. You got enough talent.
- [16:58]
Uncle Mac
Bubby Bristol.
- [16:59]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Bubby Bristol, yeah, he was with me in 98. Oh, Bubby. Bubby was with me at 98. But I like, I like his response, you know, hey, we got that. I'm sure Jason's of Beverly Hills are currently working on the rings as we speak. Yes, that's done. Super Bowl 60, we got that. Yeah. Now let's try to work towards 61. Everything that I do in the off season moving forward is about getting to 61. It's about letting this organization know and the fans know.
- [17:30]
Uncle Mac
Right.
- [17:30]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
This is why they gave me this money. That last year wasn't no fluke. Oh, y' all thought that was a fluke. Now I might not get 17 at 17, 1800 yards because there haven't been a whole lot of those in NFL history.
- [17:43]
Tracy McGrady
History.
- [17:44]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Yeah, but I'm a 4. I'm a legit 14, 1500 yard receiver regardless, every.
- [17:49]
Uncle Mac
Every time, especially with the game, the way the game is now, as much as they throw the ball now, as much as they've handicapped defenses not being able to play the way they used to play during your era. During my era. I mean, they throw the ball at such a high volume now, the numbers are almost staggering. Where it's almost, it's almost unfair to compare, you know, the receivers in today's game to the receivers in your. In, in your day or my day?
- [18:15]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
No.
- [18:16]
Uncle Mac
Can you imagine catching 100 balls? Can you imagine catching 120, 130, 144?
- [18:22]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Like, that's, that's, you know, how many targets you got to get though OO in order for you to think about how many. I mean, oo he got 163 targets, caught 119 of them. So he's catching a. A bulk. A bulk of those. Do you know to get 125, 130, 140 catches? Do you know how many targets you're approaching? 200 targets. Damn, you approach. That's over. That's over. That's 12, 12 targets a game.
- [18:48]
Uncle Mac
That's crazy. Oh, that's crazy.
- [18:51]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
So, yeah, I mean, hell, I would. I mean, sometimes you might get, you know, it was a really good game, Mocho. You know, you might get 10, 12, but you ain't getting no damn. No 17, 23 damn targets in no damn game.
- [19:03]
Uncle Mac
Nah, man.
- [19:04]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Hey, those were carries. If you saw 17, it was next to a running back. 17 carries, 23 carries. It damn sure went to no wide receiver catching, no catching, no having no 23 targets. It's a different. It's a different time. Now. I understand that. I am not Listen, because, Ocho, I'm. I'm old enough and wise enough to understand there were guys in the 50s, 60s, and 70s. In every generation, every decade, the players make more. You understand that? And guys paved the way for this transition to happen. So don't be. There's nothing to be envious about. Because you made more money if you was in the 80s, you weigh make way. Made way more money than the guys in the 70s and 90s. Made more guys than the guys in the 80s, in the 2000s and those so forth and so on. That's just the way it is. That's just the way it is right now.
- [19:54]
Uncle Mac
Yeah.
- [19:55]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
And I feel, you know, that's how it is in sports. I hate for the common folks because as the price of things have gone up, pay hasn't matched that. Yeah. All of a sudden you could buy a house for $30,000 wages. Damn sure hadn't caught up with that now. Cause now the average house probably cost you four, five hundred thousand dollars easily. And people making $50,000, you know, you supposed to. I guess the. The house should. Shouldn't cost more than double your. Your. Your yearly income.
- [20:27]
Tracy McGrady
Right.
- [20:28]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Ain't a whole bunch of damn people out there making 100,000, 153, 2, $200,000 a year.
- [20:34]
Uncle Mac
But hey, hey, the way people move, especially on social media, you would think everybody rich. You would think everybody, everybody were millionaires.
- [20:41]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Yeah, they live in pill, eating ketchup with a knit needle. They got. They got five. They got five of them in their home. Girls in an apartment trying to be Big Willie style, looking for somebody to come along that night and shining armor to come along and take them and sweep them up off their feet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like I said, I mean, sometimes I be looking at this. I don't got the way now. I don't even. I. I just. I just. I just scroll right past it because everybody. Everybody got. Got Birkin bags, and everybody got aps and. And. And Rolexes, and they driving this kind of car. They got. They got a Bentley and they got a G wagon. And I'm like, I be damn.
- [21:23]
Tracy McGrady
Yeah. Who you?
- [21:24]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Serena Williams. You Serena Williams? I get it. Right, right, right. If I. Help me understand. Chad, I don't know if y' all saw this, but I saw. I think I saw this school teacher, and she said she brings home $7,500 a month, but was complaining she can barely make ends meet. Ocho, she got a G wagon. What school teaching you? Damn. No need a school. Need a G wagon. Chad, I know. They know, huh?
- [21:54]
Uncle Mac
On a school salary?
- [21:55]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Yes.
- [21:58]
Uncle Mac
Oh, man. Hey, she must got some damn good credit, huh?
- [22:04]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
That's his name. Credit Johnson. Somebody must be.
- [22:12]
Uncle Mac
Hey, how much is the G wagon? I. I'm not familiar with those.
- [22:17]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Probably. Probably about 200. 220. 200? Yeah.
- [22:22]
Uncle Mac
Oh, man. Oh, my goodness. A salary. Teacher. Teacher salary. What, 35, 50,000 a year?
- [22:29]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
I. I don't know. I don't. I don't know where she teach at. I mean, because that's a. That's a. That's a. That's a big salary for a high school teacher, but that's not a big salary for a college teacher. So. I don't know. I. So, Chad, I don't know. I mean, I don't know if y' all saw that, but. But they asked. Ocho, you got your seatbelt on?
- [22:48]
Uncle Mac
My seat belt, yeah. Oh, my bad.
- [22:51]
Tracy McGrady
Hold on.
- [22:53]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Lord have mercy.
- [23:00]
Uncle Mac
Hey, well, you know, my seat belt went on. I was in. I was in. I was stuck in traffic the past 55 minutes. It wasn't even.
- [23:05]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
What the hell they got to do with your seat belt being on. That's where you should have your seatbelt on.
- [23:11]
Uncle Mac
I was going two miles an hour for 50 minutes.
- [23:17]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
A G wagon starts. G Wagon 500 starts at 153. 9. So 154,000.
- [23:24]
Tracy McGrady
Oh, hell no. Hell no.
- [23:26]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
The AMG's 63 starts at 195. 5. So you're probably looking at. I mean, for the. The. The 550, you're probably looking at out the door with taxes, probably 180. And for the. The G series, you're probably. You well over 200 and so you're probably, I mean, the, the monthly payment on that thing, ocho, probably, probably 30, probably about 3,000. 3,000amonth?
- [23:54]
Uncle Mac
What?
- [23:55]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Yes.
- [23:57]
Uncle Mac
Well, hold on, hold on. If she has good credit, wouldn't her payment be much less? Because her credit is good.
- [24:03]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Okay, even if your credit good oo you still. So that means you have a lower interest rate, right? You, she probably not gonna put anything down. So you still 180,000. So what? She get it for three years. She get, she get it for, you know, 36 months. She got it for 48 months. She got it for 60 months. Now I hear they tell you they'll let you go to 72 months. 3,000. I mean, it's gotta be with no money down on a hundred and eighty thousand, one hundred and ninety thousand dollars. Car you got, ain't no way in hell you playing less than 3,000. I'm saying your monthly payments might be 4.
- [24:43]
Uncle Mac
And you bringing in 70, 77, 500. She bringing 7, 500amonth.
- [24:47]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
7, 500amonth. Unless she's sleeping in that mofo. And I don't know, Chad, I, I ain't got no G. I ain't got no G wagon. So I don't know if, you know, they got, they got refrigerators and hot plates in there that you can cook off of, but it doesn't make, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
- [25:03]
Uncle Mac
Nah, it doesn't. And you know, when you think about, especially on the teacher salary, you're not sure what type of other income she has coming in. And especially in today's, in today's world of content creators, social media influencers, they have so many different ways to make money.
- [25:18]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Yeah.
- [25:18]
Uncle Mac
So it's kind of hard to say. Okay, maybe some, you know, the, the, the upper echelon of those that are content creators or influencers, maybe they do make the money to be able to sustain, you know, that type of lifestyle.
- [25:31]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
But I mean, some of my content creators, Ocho, it's kind of like professional athletes. Everybody ain't making $60 million a year in basketball, everybody in football ain't making a JSN salary. So even the content creators that's making, that's making 10, 15, 20, whatever they're making a year, a lot of them making $500 a month. Damn. Yeah. So this notion that everybody, oh, I'm a content creator. Everybody is not a casa knot. Everybody is not a Jake Paul. Everybody is not a speed. Everybody's not one of those type of content creators. So just because you throw that out. That doesn't mean necessarily that money comes along with it.
- [26:13]
Uncle Mac
Yes, yes.
- [26:14]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Because everybody is an influencer. Everybody is a content creator now. So. Yeah, I don't know. Yep. Okay, so I, I, like I said, I, I don't, I don't know. I don't. Like I said, I, I just, I don't believe a whole lot. All right.
- [26:34]
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Chad Ochocinco Johnson
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- [27:46]
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- [28:51]
Julian Edelman
This is Julian Edelman from Dudes on Dudes with Gronk and Jewels. All right, real quick. Take a look at yourself right now.
- [28:57]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Why? What's wrong?
- [28:58]
Julian Edelman
Nothing's wrong. You look like a guy running on three hours of sleep and vibes.
- [29:03]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Okay.
- [29:03]
Julian Edelman
Yeah, I'm tired, kind of cranky and very thirsty. Congrats. Those are some of the potential signs of mild dehydration. And I bet your last bathroom break showed you another sign your body might be throwing you a penalty flag.
- [29:19]
Ad Voice
So what's the play?
- [29:20]
Julian Edelman
Call Liquid IV hydration multiplier. One stick in water helps hydrate faster than water alone. Okay, but where's the proof? Liquid IV's clinical studies. Not just a guy I know. Real science. Results you can trust.
- [29:38]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Well, take a look at me now. Liquid IV is officially part of my daily hydration routine. Pass the firecracker. Popsicle flavor.
- [29:46]
Julian Edelman
Stay hydrated like a pro, not like Jack. Before this. Stock up on Liquid IV hydration multiplier@liquid-iv.com and use the promo code nuthouse for 20% off your first purchase.
- [30:03]
Tracy McGrady
Gentlemen, I propose a toast to our good friend Dave. You inspired this epic guy's weekend. I'm sorry you're missing it. Everyone knows that when you fly you
- [30:14]
Ad Voice
need to bring a real ID or a passport.
- [30:17]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Everyone but Dave.
- [30:18]
Tracy McGrady
So here's the finally figuring out how
- [30:20]
Uncle Mac
to get on an airplane.
- [30:21]
Tracy McGrady
Dave, we'll see you tomorrow. And I'm glad you could rebook your flight.
- [30:24]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
He would have loved this restaurant.
- [30:26]
Ad Voice
Does your ID fly? Find out if you have an acceptable form of id@tsa.gov realid there's our very
- [30:33]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
special guest joining us tonight. He's a seven time NBA all star. A seven time all. Excuse me. He's a seven time all NBA selection. A seven time NBA all star, a two time scoring champ straight out of high school. Here he is, TMac. Tracy McGrady. TBack. What it do, bro?
- [30:54]
Tracy McGrady
What's up, dog?
- [30:55]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
We good. We good, bro. How you feeling tonight, man?
- [30:59]
Tracy McGrady
I'm, I'm. I'm blessed, brother. All good. Thank you for joining us.
- [31:04]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Go ahead. You want to say something about your.
- [31:06]
Uncle Mac
I was at Mac. What's good? What?
- [31:08]
Tracy McGrady
Florida boy
- [31:12]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
good.
- [31:12]
Tracy McGrady
My dog. What's up, boy?
- [31:16]
Uncle Mac
Man, I'm chilling. I ain't see you. I ain't see you on the court in a minute, man. You still won't smoke again?
- [31:22]
Tracy McGrady
Oh, yo, come on, bro. That's how we starting off this Tonight, I'm just asking. I'm glad you said that, Ocho. Let me clear some things up for people out there, right? We played in a celebrity game many, many moons ago, and this my dude, this my Florida brother. We was out there playing, roughing each other up, and folks thought we were actually fighting online. I would never fight this man. This is my dude. So to clear that up, that was not me and Ocho fighting in a celebrity basketball game. That was something else going on. Me and my dude was just acting like Florida boys out there on the basketball court. That's what we were doing. So I wanted to clear that up, man, because I ain't never get a chance to talk to you about that. And I know there's a lot of stuff floating out there about us fighting.
- [32:12]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Nah, but what everybody talking about, he been telling us he dropped for. He dropped like 1416 on you, and you kind of got upset with him about that. On me, I say, did you drink? I said, did you drop all 14, 16? He's like, yeah.
- [32:31]
Tracy McGrady
What juice that drunk that night?
- [32:34]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Oh, me?
- [32:35]
Tracy McGrady
Hell, no.
- [32:39]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
All right, let's get to some basketball. Look. What? What the mvp. I think we got. We got Luca, we got Wimby, we got Jokic, you got sga, you got Jalen, you got Jalen Brown, and I think you got Cade Cunningham. I think Kate is gonna miss the cutoff because he's gonna miss too many games. So just for the sake of this argument, let's set him to the side. But I believe it's out of those five, Luca, Jokic, sga, Jaylen Brown, and Wimy, you. I don't know if you have a vote. You may or may not. But if you had to. If you had to vote right now, there's still about 12, 14 games left in the season. But if you had to vote right now, TMac, where you leaning?
- [33:21]
Tracy McGrady
So obviously I think all five of these guys can win MVP because they all having phenomenal seasons. But how I see the MVP and view the MVP who's most valuable to their team, and out of those five, when I look at the rosters, it's Jalen Brown, no question. Right? It's no question. SGA is playing with another all star and playing with a cast that he played with last year. Yes, sir. But. But J Dub has been out in and out of the lineup, and he's just coming back. And then when I look at Jokis now, Jokic, before he got hurt, I don't care what anybody was doing. He was my clear cut MVP the numbers he was putting up was. Was just astronomical.
- [34:07]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Yeah.
- [34:07]
Tracy McGrady
And then when you look at. When you look at. Bro, I'm just gonna say this. When you look at Wimby, if Wimby doesn't win it this year, good luck to all the other players for the next six or seven years. Because he defensively, like, his floor is better than all of those guys ceiling. And we've never seen anybody on the defensive end have that type of impact. And I say the dude is like Deion Sanders, bro, on the basketball court. Being able to shut an entire side down. Yeah. And then. And then Luca, you know, for me, you got to play both sides of the ball. I think he's done a lot better this year defensively. But in this stretch that we've seen him on, he's been phenomenal, scoring with the best of. I mean, we. The dude is just a phenomenal offensive player, but again, he's playing with LeBron James. And they didn't really. The team. The team wise. I think there was a little, you know, up and down. Really wasn't playing great basketball. Jalen Brown and his Boston Celtics has been playing great basketball from the, from the jump. And you look at his roster, JT has been out right up until a few weeks ago, him coming back. But you look at their roster, it's like, no way you guys should be in the second seed in the Eastern Conference. So most valuable player at this point to be still is Jalen Brown.
- [35:34]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
When you. When you. When you look at this and you see what the. The. The OKC Thunder, what they've been able to do, even when s. When SGA was out, they were still finding ways to win. Even when. And that's the mark of a good team, when you could be without your best player and you still win. You can be without your second best player and guys come in and contribute and you can still win. That shows you the depth of a given team.
- [35:59]
Tracy McGrady
Yeah.
- [35:59]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
So now if I said, okay, T. Mac some money that means something to you, and if it's your money you putting up, it means something to you. Who you think is in the finals? Because I go back and forth because a part of me wants to say San Antonio. A part of me wants to say the okay, see. Okay, see? And then I look at the East.
- [36:22]
Tracy McGrady
Yeah.
- [36:22]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
I still think Boston healthy. I don't think anybody if Boston and Detroit. But Cade has to play great in order for them to win. JT can have an off game and JB carry him. Yeah, JB can have an off Game. And JT can carry him. And then you got that little guy, Peyton Pritchard. He coming out the. And before, you know, he don't. But he done hit you over your head with 20, with 22 points. He back.
- [36:47]
Tracy McGrady
No, you. You absolutely right, man. You know, some of these. These guys, when they. They miss games, their team don't fall off. They still win ball games. You know, Detroit had a good one tonight, but they lost against the Hawks. But they still playing good basketball without K. Cunningham. Jalen Dern is stepping up with.
- [37:05]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Yeah.
- [37:06]
Tracy McGrady
In the absence of him. And actually the little point guard, Dennis Jenkins is playing great basketball for them, too. So for Detroit, this is. I want to see this because I wanted to see how they function without the head of the snake in K. Cunningham. And they answered my question. These guys are still a legit team without him. And I see how they can play when Kate gets in foul trouble or he's off the court for whatever reason. They still play good basketball. And with Jalen Brown there, man, I. I just don't see nobody in the Eastern Conference as balanced and solid all around like them New York Knicks. They have everything. But you just don't know. It's been some inconsistent basketball with them. So I'm going Boston. And it pains me to say this because I love the Denver Nuggets. Jokic is my favorite player. Them being healthy. Ah, man.
- [38:05]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Because Peyton Watson is coming back at some point in time. Because you look at the way they was playing with Peyton Watson and you got Jamal Playoff. Jamal. Because you know, Jamal Murray, he and Yic in the picket role is the most stop. Stoppable tandem.
- [38:19]
Tracy McGrady
So I'm. I'm going to say this. Before I had Denver, when they were fully healthy, I just thought, okay, was that team. But because it's been, you know, Aaron Gord been out of the lineup. I mean, Peyton Watson been out of lineup. Christian Brown's been out of the lineup. Like these. So many of these guys. Cam Johnson, they're. They're core guys. It's made so much time. I gotta go. I gotta go with Boston OKC in the finals, dog.
- [38:45]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Wow. No San Antonio. You don't think San Antonio is quite old enough yet? Because I love Wimby. Stephan Castle V. I mean, they got. They Harrison Barn comes off the bench. Keldon Johnson. I love Kelton Johnson. He's a bucket.
- [39:01]
Tracy McGrady
I don't care what.
- [39:03]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
It don't matter. He get in the game, he gonna get 20 TB.
- [39:07]
Tracy McGrady
No, that, that, that. That boy be playing, man, whether he knocking down the three against to the Cup. I love their team. I just think this is the year where they're gonna have that growing pain of failing to reach the finals. And then next. The next few years. My gosh. Watch out.
- [39:23]
Uncle Mac
It's gonna be crazy.
- [39:24]
Tracy McGrady
My gosh.
- [39:26]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Yeah.
- [39:26]
Uncle Mac
Hey, hey, Mac, I want to switch gears real quick. Obviously, you with great knowledge of the game, and everyone has their own criteria.
- [39:33]
Tracy McGrady
Hold on, bro.
- [39:36]
Uncle Mac
I'm in the car. I was. I was. I was stuck in a rush hour traffic.
- [39:40]
Tracy McGrady
You ain't no goddamn rush hour traffic, bro. This how you do me, bro. You supposed to be my boy. You supposed to be in the studio or at the crib. You in the car, man.
- [39:49]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
No, I'm.
- [39:49]
Uncle Mac
No, I swear to God, T, Mac, I was in standstill traffic for, like, 45 minutes.
- [39:54]
Tracy McGrady
All right, Apologies, bro.
- [39:55]
Uncle Mac
I'm. I'm at the house now. But real, real quick, everyone has their own criteria. There's always dialogue. There's always endless conversations. Barbershop talk, basketball talk when it comes to who the best is to ever play this game. So based on your knowledge and having to face these individuals in your mind, who is the greatest basketball player of all time? When it comes to the debate about Michael Jordan and LeBron James, who is the goat of the game?
- [40:23]
Tracy McGrady
You only threw two of them in there. You threw two guys.
- [40:28]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
I think T. Mac got cold in that discussion.
- [40:31]
Tracy McGrady
You only got two guys.
- [40:33]
Uncle Mac
Talk to me nice now. Talk to me nice and let me know. Let me know who you feel the best is ever. We talk about the goat now. So there's another goat you want to add to the conversation.
- [40:47]
Tracy McGrady
So. So for me, it's. It's MJ all day. I grew up watching Mike, and I just haven't seen. And it's not even about the numbers and the championships. It's right. I'm watching right with my eyes what I see on the basketball court. Yeah, that other stuff helps. But it's all about the eye test and what this man did, you know, night in and night out, defensively, clutch, whatever you needed and not. That's not to say LeBron can't be the goat, but for me, it's my goat. It's mj. And I think how you have to do it, you got to go by errors, man, because you know it's right. Right? You know what I'm saying? Like, it's. It's different style of basketball. It's different players. Like, MJ ain't see no Kobe. MJ ain't seen no TMac. MJ ain't seen no Vince, you know, like, and I want to disrespect those wing players, but let's be honest, the 2000 wings, bro, they wasn't in. Right, right. They were deeper and the game changed, so. And then in LeBron's era, he ran that, right? Putting up crazy stats, the MVPs, but he had some competition. That was Kobe Bryant. And then later on in his career, he's gotta ask Steph Curry in there, right? So I, it's. So it's errors for me, man. All these guys are goats because they all was freaking great, bro.
- [42:09]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Yeah. I think the thing is that I don't know how you felt when you first saw Michael Jordan, but I always tell the story. He doesn't seem real, T, man, he, he, he leveled. I mean, when I first laid eyes on this man, I was in the super bowl. This man was levitating. And I'm looking at him and he probably thinking, man, Sterling sharp little brother. He's up wrong with him. He don't t. Mac, am I lying? Does he seem real?
- [42:38]
Tracy McGrady
So I, I'm gonna tell you this story, and I'm glad you said that. And people really don't understand that. Aura is a real thing, bro. For real. His, his, his aura is like none other. So I was 17 years, I was 17 years old and this is when I, I announced that I was gonna go to the NBA. Chicago was playing the Atlanta Hawks. Like, go to the game, watch MJ and Pip and the Bulls do that night. I go in the back after the game and I'm waiting for these guys. I'm waiting by the Chicago Bulls locker room because we got some passes in my, you know, the team that I was with had the connections straight. Mj. Well, Rodman walked out. All right. Oh, cool. That's. It is Robin right there. Pip walks out. All right, bro. MJ walks out of that locker room. I do. Nah, nah, it's like he was glowing, bro. He had like this aura around him that was. Yeah, I'm telling people, don't believe it. This is 17 year old me watching this guy. Because this is, right, NBC, this is the golden era of basketball. That's how I got to watch him, right? It's to see him on, on tv and what he was doing back in the, the late 80s, early 90s for me, when I started watching and to actually see this brother in person, nah, he, he didn't seem real.
- [44:10]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
He still don't. He still, he. I, I get the same, I get the same feeling when I See that man in person that I got the very first time that I saw his ass in person. This joker levitate. I don't care what nobody say, this man was levitating. He was not walking, he was levitating. And I've seen a lot, a lot of famous people in the world in my time, but don't nobody has the aura like Michael Jordan now. Maybe, maybe Michael Jackson, but I never saw Michael Jackson in person. Yeah, yeah, I've seen Prince in person. I've seen a lot of celebs in person. I've never seen anything like what this man. The glow and, and the power, the energy, the force that is around him. Man, you people, you got, you got to be in his presence to understand what T. Mac but if you think about it, chat everybody that's ever been around him, he said the same thing. From Shaq to Kevin Garnett to everybody said the exact same thing. He doesn't Allen Iris say, the man, he don't even seem real.
- [45:11]
Tracy McGrady
Nah, he don't, man. And I was, I was actually just with him at the Writers cup. And it's hard not to just stare at Mike, bro. That's Mike, bro. I'm glad I ain't the only one.
- [45:22]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
I'm glad I.
- [45:26]
Tracy McGrady
That's Mike right there, fool. But now he, and, and for me, when I first saw him and then my first couple times playing against him, like, I still had that feeling, but it's like I've been around Mike so many times. I still, you know, have high regards. The auras kind of wore off a little bit. It's still there and that's still Mike. But man, when I was 17 years, I ain't never seen anything like it, bro.
- [45:54]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
It's amazing. Like I said, I've been around a lot of famous people. A lot, a lot of famous people. Yeah, ain't nothing, ain't nothing like the, Ain't nothing like this dude right here, man.
- [46:03]
Tracy McGrady
Nah, nah. And when he, and when he came back to the Wizards, because I was 17 years, I mean 18 years old, you know, I played against him when they won 72 and 10. That was my rookie year.
- [46:14]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Okay.
- [46:14]
Tracy McGrady
I played and I played against him his last year before he retired. And you know, that 18 year old me was, was trying to figure out, you know, who I was as an NBA player and trying to learn the game. So I didn't, I didn't really, you know, have that, that type of game or that force that I wanted. But when I, when his ass came back when he was with the Wizards. Ah, ah. Hey.
- [46:39]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
You might be wounded, but I'm gonna give you this work.
- [46:41]
Tracy McGrady
I gotta give you this work. I don't like what you did to my mind when I was 17 years old making me seem like you ain't for real.
- [46:51]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
That was Kobe's mindset. You Remember Kobe dropped 55 on the last time he played it. And people like, well, Kobe, why would you do that? He said that's what he would want me to do. He would have it no other way. Because I guarantee you, if the roles
- [47:02]
Tracy McGrady
were reversed, oh yeah, he would have did the same thing. But it did the same thing. So that's why before he left that before I, I had to get at least 40 on him, bro. Before he stopped playing, I had to see that I dropped 40. And I don't care if the Wizards might because the Wizard's mic was still averaging 24 points, 25 points and putting up some crazy numbers when he was healthy playing. So I viewed him as Chicago Bulls might. He got to come get this work.
- [47:30]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
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- [48:01]
Julian Edelman
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- [48:53]
Ad Voice
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- [49:57]
Julian Edelman
This is Julian Edelman from Dudes on Dudes with Gronk and Jewels. All right, real quick. Take a look at yourself right now.
- [50:03]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Why?
- [50:04]
Tracy McGrady
What's wrong?
- [50:04]
Julian Edelman
Nothing's wrong. You look like a guy running on three hours of sleep and vibes.
- [50:09]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Okay?
- [50:09]
Julian Edelman
Yeah, I'm tired, kind of cranky and very thirsty. Congrats. Those are some of the potential signs of mild dehydration. And I bet your last bathroom break showed you another sign your body might be throwing you a penalty flag.
- [50:26]
Ad Voice
So what's the play?
- [50:26]
Julian Edelman
Call Liquid IV hydration multiplier. One stick in water helps hydrate faster than water alone. Okay, but where's the proof? Liquid IV's clinical studies, not just a guy I know. Real science. Results you can trust.
- [50:45]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Well, take a look at me now. Liquid IV is officially part of my daily hydration routine. Pass the firecracker Popsicle flavor.
- [50:52]
Julian Edelman
Stay hydrated like a pro, not like Jack before this. Stock up on Liquid IV hydration multiplier@liquid-iv.com and use the promo code nuthouse for 20% off your first purchase.
- [51:09]
Tracy McGrady
Gentlemen, I propose a toast to our good friend Dave. You inspired this epic guy's weekend. I'm sorry you're missing it. Everyone knows that when you fly, you
- [51:20]
Ad Voice
need to bring a real ID or a passport.
- [51:23]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Everyone but Dave.
- [51:24]
Tracy McGrady
So here's to finally figuring out how
- [51:26]
Uncle Mac
to get on an airplane.
- [51:27]
Tracy McGrady
Dave, we'll see you tomorrow. And I'm glad you could rebook your flight.
- [51:30]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
He would have loved this restaurant.
- [51:32]
Ad Voice
Does your ID fly? Find out if you have an acceptable form of id@tsa.gov realid
- [51:40]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
when. When you. Look. You know what I wanted to ask you, T. Mac? Have a guy that played the game at an elite level. There was a lot of conversation going back and forth when Bam got 83. Bam got 83. Look how he got to 83. The game was out of reach. TMac, can you just tell the people how hard it is to score? 40, 50, 60, because I think you got a career high of like 60, 62. So now go to 70, go to 80. I don't give a damn how he did it. I don't care if he chair picks Snowbird, whatever you guys call it, where the guy just standing at half court and getting layoffs on the other end. I don't give a damn what you call it. 83 is 83. Talk to the people. From somebody that played the game at an elite high, high level. Explain to the people. Even though the Washington Wizards are trash and it says more about them than it does Bam, explain to people. 83 damn points.
- [52:31]
Tracy McGrady
The league has been around, you know, 70 something years.
- [52:35]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Only 1947.
- [52:37]
Tracy McGrady
How many people scored that? Three. Three. That's all I have. It's only three. Regardless of how he did it and how you view him as he. When he did it, it's 83 points. And we. We haven't seen that only one time. And that was. That was b. So, yeah, do. Do. I think it could have been a little bit more competitive on Washington side? Of course. But they're pro. They make millions of dollars as well.
- [53:05]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Right.
- [53:05]
Tracy McGrady
They got a job to do. And if you had an opportunity to make history, who's not gonna do that? So when. So, so 30 years from now, when, you know, kids are coming up, these, these babies right now, they come up and they looking at the school, it's like, Bam, he scored 83 points. They're not going to care how he scored it. They just know, man, that man is on a whole time score. So I don't care how he scored it, man. As you know, it's a lot of people out there that's. That's hating on the man because he overtook and. And Kobe never had the record. I don't know what they talk about it. Kobe had the record. Like the record is 100. The record is 100 now. We haven't seen it. I haven't seen any video. But the record is 100.
- [53:47]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
But you know what I think, T. Mac? I think because Kobe got 81 and then see, I think it was Bam is because he's the most unlikeliest guy to get 83. Had Kobe got 83. Had you got 80. It got 80 plus. Had one of these guys that we look at it.
- [54:03]
Tracy McGrady
Scores.
- [54:03]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Kevin Durant, James Harden, Allen Iverson. If we look, if one of you guys get it, I don't think anybody's batting the eye, but you're talking about Bam. That's a career, what, 20 point a night score. And all of a sudden he jumped from 20 all the way up to get 83. We don't, we don't normally see guys go like that. Even you look at Donovan Mitchell. Donovan Mitchell, when he got seven, you look at Luke and he got 70. Those guys are scores. So it's not anything. So if they would have got. Because we saw them get. Luca got 73, I think against the, against the Hawks, I think donovan Mitchell got 70 something 80, we not even batting the eye, but Bam got it. If we don't look at Bam as one of those guys, a score NBA
- [54:45]
Tracy McGrady
player, man, the man got hot. He had a phenomenal night in the story. Like, yeah, he scored 83, man. Let that go, bro. Like, all right, man. He's an NBA player, bro. I've seen guys. I've seen guys averaging, you know, 17 points in this league get 50. So what do you got to say about that?
- [55:05]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Oh, I think Ultra tried and you muted. Ocho,
- [55:09]
Uncle Mac
can you hear me now? Yeah, hey, Mac, I got. I got a question. Listen, normally, normally push back for, for 83 point game that Bam scored. You hear from analysts, you hear from pundits, you hear from.
- [55:20]
Tracy McGrady
From.
- [55:21]
Uncle Mac
From fans that are just. Just fans of the game in general that, that enjoy watching basketball. But when you hear pushback from actual players that played the game, you know, and they complain also about BAM scoring 83, why do you think that is? Especially from those who have played the game at the highest level, why would they have a problem with it?
- [55:42]
Tracy McGrady
It's because of how it happened, and rightfully so. Like, it was. It was a nasty game. It was a nasty game of what they was doing. That's what they. That's what they're speaking on. It's. There's no disrespect to Bam. It's just how it happened. You know what I mean? Like the Washington Wizards and fouling it in Miami's fouling to get. To try to get the ball back. Okay. Yeah, it was, it was, it was. It was. All that stuff right there is what they was pissed off about.
- [56:12]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
I don't know. Did you. Did you see Shump's comment?
- [56:14]
Tracy McGrady
I did not.
- [56:16]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Iman Shamba said. He said. This is what he said about Bam. Don't bring up 80 no more. Don't bring that up. That was a regular season game versus a tanking team. You murdered that team and then you walk off.
- [56:27]
Tracy McGrady
Bam.
- [56:27]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
You don't need to talk about it. We all saw it. I let us talk about it. I'm in a suit. I can talk about it. Don't talk about it no more, Bam. Cause now it looks weird. You about to make it where I don't like 83 no more. I'm dead serious. Please don't be holding on to that. This Bam. I need you to add to your resume F that. I'm talking about it forever. As a matter of fact, I'm changing my name. Mr. 83.
- [56:50]
Tracy McGrady
Mr. 83. Actually, that's going to be my social media. My social media name on all the social media channels.
- [56:57]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Mr. 83.
- [56:58]
Tracy McGrady
Straight up. Like, come on, bro. Like, how you not talk about that, man? Man, these people out here crazy, dog. That's 83 points in the NBA game. I do against NBA players that's making millions of dollars. Come on, dog.
- [57:15]
Uncle Mac
It's history. It's history. How can you not. How can you not talk about history? You're a part of it.
- [57:22]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
I tell you, Ocho, let's just say for the sake of argument, every. All the top corners go out, but you get 300 yards and y' all still throwing the ball. Y' all up 21 points and y' all throw the ball and you catch a 15 yard route to go over 300. You go. Are you gonna say, man, I feel bad for them. They top three quarters. I did the boot. No.
- [57:43]
Uncle Mac
Oh, no.
- [57:44]
Tracy McGrady
Right.
- [57:44]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
You in the NFL, I'm gonna talk.
- [57:47]
Uncle Mac
You'd be crazy. I might change my last name to 300 too.
- [57:51]
Tracy McGrady
Straight up. 300. Do you? It's very rare for us to see this type of performance. Regardless of how it happens, right? Regardless of how it happens. It's supposed to be the best players in the world, right? It's supposed to be the best in the world, right? That's all I'm saying. So we the best players in the best league. The man scored 83 points. There's no asterisk.
- [58:21]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
It happened, I think, see people that. Well, Kobe didn't mention it. Well, Kobe had a game where he stopped at 62 and left in the third, at the end of the third and then come back in the game. Kobe has had these scoring outbursts, so we're not surprised. I don't think anybody was surprised because just three weeks earlier he had a 62 point game where he outscored the entire. If I'm not mistaken. I think it was the Mavericks by himself in three quarters. Surprise when Kobe like kept going and ended up getting that. Or if Joe when Jordan has got these 60 points. But. But Bam. I don't even know if Bam's career high. If Bam career highs even 40.
- [59:01]
Tracy McGrady
Do you remember? You remember David Robinson was trying to get.
- [59:04]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
I do. The last game of the season, they got him the scoring title to be
- [59:06]
Tracy McGrady
Shane feed him every single time, every single trip. But we don't say nothing about that. Right?
- [59:12]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
So as a matter of fact, I think it was against the Clippers.
- [59:15]
Tracy McGrady
It was against the Clippers. He wasn't gonna score that.
- [59:21]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
He had 71, man.
- [59:23]
Tracy McGrady
He wasn't scoring that against nobody else but the Clippers. Why? Because they were like the Washington.
- [59:28]
Uncle Mac
Okay, okay.
- [59:29]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Well, you mean the Washington Generals that played the Harlem Gold Trotters. That's what. That's what. That's what the Wizards are now. Hey, T, but check it, man. You said this week, the board of governors, the NBA, they're convening and they're going to vote possibly expansion. One Vegas, one Seattle. You said you was like, hold on, guys. I'm not so sure there's enough talent on the 30 current NBA teams for you to dilute it even more, adding two more teams because players can only. You can only protect a certain number of players. And then everybody else is up for discussion with where those teams, like, okay, I want this guy. I want that guy. What went into your thought process? Why did you say you don't think there's enough talent that's currently in the NBA for the league to add two more teams?
- [60:17]
Tracy McGrady
So we just talk. We just talked about Bam scoring 83 points, right? What did you call that team? He scored 83 points on the Washington Generals. We want to see. We want two more teams. And you just said the NBA team. You call these boys the Washington Generals. They're not the only team like that. You got Utah thinking you got the Brooklyn Nets.
- [60:47]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Yep.
- [60:48]
Tracy McGrady
You. You want to watch the Brooklyn Nets?
- [60:50]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Nah, bro, I don't.
- [60:52]
Tracy McGrady
Why? Why? You know why you don't want to watch the Brooklyn Nets?
- [60:55]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
They ain't even trying. They at least. At least the Wizards are playing their guys. Tmac the Utah not even. They take they guys out. They down by two and they. They started for the whole fourth quarter. Triple J getting surgery on.
- [61:09]
Tracy McGrady
On.
- [61:09]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
On a wisdom tooth. He out for the rest of the year. Man, you make you.
- [61:15]
Tracy McGrady
So when you answer the question that you asked me. Sacramento. You want you t watch Sacramento up. No so now you talk about adding two more teams in this. Come on, bro.
- [61:27]
Uncle Mac
I got a question. I got a question. Mac.
- [61:30]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Oh, let me follow you, sir. Right quick. T. Mac, you talking about two teams. And each team, they say that the winning bid is going to be somewhere between seven and $10 billion. And the owners, you know that that's probably 500. That's probably 500, maybe $600 million in each owner's pockets.
- [61:47]
Tracy McGrady
Hey, hey, I don't want to take no money out of nobody pocket. I know it's about bread. I know it's about bread, okay? But I'm just saying as a fan of the game, okay? And if we don't have the product, man, I'm just, I'm sorry, we. We just don't have the product. The league is weird. It's strange, man. I don't, I, I can't understand the league. I'm looking at a guy that averaged 30 points last year in the NBA. 29, 30 points on a bad team, but a bucket getter. Probably one of the best bucket getters in our league as a young player. He gets waived from his team, another bad team picks him up, right? Thomas, Cam Thomas, another team, bad team picks him up. He stays there for a few weeks and they wave him. That Ocho, the brother was averaging 30 in the NBA last season before he got hurt and he's out of the NBA. So come on, like, I want that type of talent in the NBA. I want somebody, I want that in the NBA to where he takes tough shots. He'll tough shot maker. He can't find out. He can't find a home in the NBA. Now, I don't know the other stuff that's going on, whether it's his attitude or he's not, you know what I'm saying? I don't know none of that. I don't have any of that information. But in terms of a basketball player and what we need in this league, what we want to see, that kid is one of the best scorers you will see in this league.
- [63:19]
Uncle Mac
Hey, hey, hey, Mac. What I'm gonna say, right, you know, if, if it make money, it makes sense, especially to the owner, to the GMs. The bottom line, it will always be the same. And it's always been the same since the beginning of time. It's always about. It's always about the money. So with these two expansion teams, if Seattle is able to get one, if Vegas is able to get one, how long do you think it would take before they're able to produce the product or get the product necessary for those teams to compete. Or is that not possible because there's not enough basketball players in general?
- [63:51]
Tracy McGrady
No, I, I think it is possible because I mean there are, you know, I think with some of these kids coming out of college, it depends on like how you construct your roster. There's some vets that's probably, are, you know, up for a contract and, and possibly we'll look at that Las Vegas situation or look at Seattle. Phenomenal city to hooping, by the way. Vegas. But NBA players. Yeah, but that's a little tricky. That's Vegas. Hey, the girls can handle that. The WNBA players can handle that. The NFL players. It's more of a strict league. You know, you guys only got one game and y' all have a curfew. NBA players got too much downtime, dog. Vegas might be a little tricky.
- [64:45]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
But TMac, tell us about the ones league that you found. What, what, what is the ones?
- [64:51]
Tracy McGrady
So that's my one on one league, man. You know, I, I, you know, started a one on one league back in 2022 and it was my proof of concept season and I, I started this league because of where I am sitting today is because a platform that I got on when I was in high school and that was the ABCD camp. See if y' all don't know, I was an unknown high school player up until my senior year. Nobody really knew who I was. I got invited to the Adidas camp, become, you know, the number one player after that Adidas camp and you know, the story is go to the NBA and the rest is history. So it's that platform that really made me who I was and gave me a name. So it's a lot of Hoopers. Ocho, you know, you grew up down in the bottom, man, you grew up with some guys that, that can hoop like crazy and probably had, you know, a situation where someone in the family died and they had to pivot and, and step up and, and you know, be the parent, the guardian in that situation or they just couldn't get it right as a, as a teenager and was in some trouble and you know, ruined their careers or whatever. And then some guys just, just really didn't get the opportunity to live out their dream of playing basketball. Well, there's so many guys, so much talent and one on one out here, man, that I feel they should have that platform. You play, you play one on one growing up?
- [66:15]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
I did.
- [66:16]
Tracy McGrady
Oo you played one on one growing up? We all play. We go ahead T,
- [66:23]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
hey, TBAC, you know, 21 was one on one.
- [66:26]
Tracy McGrady
Basically, that it was.
- [66:27]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
It was 1:1 against 15 other guys.
- [66:30]
Tracy McGrady
I was just about to say that, like, I grew up playing one on one, and then 21 was our one on one as well. So.
- [66:37]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Yep.
- [66:38]
Tracy McGrady
Man, I, I just think these cats out here really need that platform. I want to create it for them. But on top of that, you know, it's much bigger than just giving them the platform to make a name for himself in basketball. I also want to do something for brothers that look like us in the ownership department. See, and y', all, Lee, it's not too many guys that look like us that have ownership. I was lucky enough. I was lucky enough to have that opportunity to go in with the Buffalo Bills with my cousin Vince. So we, you know, we, we got some ownership with that and it just really, you know, sparked my interest. Like, I want to do this for my people and I want to change how I'm building this league. So I'm building it to have cities. I want cities and have guys like Jadakiss, who's from New York, give him 15 of this team that's based out of New York. John Wall. John Wall is from Raleigh. I gave him 15 of that Raleigh team. And I have eight cities and eight owners and GMS that I assigned to this team. Gave them equity. I didn't want any money for them. I just handed it to them because they are impactful in those cities that they grew up. And then when you look at the game of basketball, our game of basketball, NBA, like Steph Curry is not from Oakland or San Francisco. LeBron James is not from LA. These guys are homegrown from these, these cities. And I want that community to get behind them and push these guys and support these guys. So that's why I want to do this, man. And you know, I'm really excited about giving these guys this platform.
- [68:13]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Tmac, we're gonna get you out of here. I don't know. I think.
- [68:16]
Tracy McGrady
Don't cut me off all early.
- [68:18]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
No, well, we, hey, we. We'll keep you. We gonna keep you going. Check this out. Pat Bell says Dame dollar is not a Hall of Famer. This is what he said. He said, hell no, I love Dame. It's too many people getting in the hall of Fame. How are we going to say no? Derek? No to Derek Rose getting MVP and say yes to Dame dollar if he get a chip. For sure. T. Mac Dang A nine time NBA All Star 2000 All Rookie Team, 75th Anniversary Team seven time All NBA selection, 2012, 13 Rookie of the Year, 2023, 24 All Star Game, MVP. What we doing here?
- [68:54]
Tracy McGrady
You ain't gotta run all that stuff out. I'm disappointed in my brother Pat. I'm disappointed in my brother Pat. That man is a for sure hall of Famer. Are you kidding me? Did he watch it? Did he watch this cat? Like, if that's not a Hall of Fame, I don't know what it is.
- [69:09]
Uncle Mac
Yeah, I mean, right?
- [69:09]
Tracy McGrady
Like, I think. I think we'd be looking at, like, we'd be trying to put too much into what it is. Now, obviously, there are different rooms for the hall of Fame.
- [69:18]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Yeah.
- [69:19]
Tracy McGrady
Jordan, Kobe Bryant, like LeBron James, Steph Curry. These boys are in a different room, right?
- [69:25]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Yes.
- [69:26]
Tracy McGrady
Right. In a different room. But don't discredit Dave Dollar because he. He didn't accomplish this up here, bro. That man still was. Is one of the greats. He a top 75 player. That's hall of Fame worthy. I'm sorry.
- [69:39]
Uncle Mac
I think I got.
- [69:41]
Tracy McGrady
I got. I'm g. Have to holla at my boy Pack. Cause he trades at my house. Next time he comes over, we gotta have a conversation.
- [69:47]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
I. I agree with you. I agree with you.
- [69:49]
Uncle Mac
Go ahead, Uncle Mac. You know Pat, Bev trying to be. Trying to be the villain in. In a sense. Obviously, Dane Ballor meets the criteria for what a Hall of Fame player is, man.
- [69:59]
Tracy McGrady
No question.
- [70:00]
Uncle Mac
Bev. Bev tripping, man. Bev just trying to stir up the conversation. He's trying to stir up. Stir up the conversation.
- [70:08]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
I think the thing is, you said something very interesting, T. Mac. And this is what I tell people all the time. I said, I'm in the building of the hall of Fame. I'm in there. But they got rooms for Jerry rooms. They got rules for. For Lawrence Taylor. They got room for certain guy like that Aaron Donald gonna be in one of those rooms. You know, Tom Brady's gonna be in one of those rooms. They got rooms. But to say, this man and what he's accomplished, does it belong in the hall of Fame?
- [70:33]
Tracy McGrady
Yeah, I don't know about that because I. You.
- [70:38]
Uncle Mac
You.
- [70:38]
Tracy McGrady
You gotta understand, man, there. There are guys that are just put in situations. They're great players. I'm not taking anything. But they're put in situations with the. Where's the organization? Whether there's a gm, where. There. There's a coach that. That is all about winning. And they get into, you know, that organization, that team, and, you know, they become. They. They. Their greatness is Highlighted because of what's around them, right? Yes, it's highlighted because of what's around them. That and some of these guys, like, you know, I will look at. Give me a player like Kevin Garnett before. Before he went to Boston. Right? Before he went to Boston. To me, Kevin Garnett was a freaking hall of Famer. Yeah, a Hall of Famer, no doubt. And he didn't have a career where he was like, going deep into the playoffs and going to the finals. Like, he didn't have that. But you trying to tell me KG wasn't a Hall of Famer before he got to Boston? Man, get out of here with that, though. Again, it's different rooms T. Mac, you
- [71:46]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
know what has happened? Social media has come on and so now everybody has an opinion and we can see everybody's opinion.
- [71:53]
Tracy McGrady
Yeah.
- [71:53]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
And I think the thing is this ring culture, because what they do now, if somebody has the fifth gal, the 10th, 12th guy on the bench can have a ring and they'll say he's better than an all time great. That doesn't. I'm like, bro, do y' all realize what y' all saying? I said, when y' all take shots at Charles Barkley, when you take a shot at Carl Malone, I understand they don't have rings, but do you understand how great they were? Just because you don't have a. And rings are. Sometimes it takes a very special situation. You look at a guy like Steph Curry, he goes to Golden State. He has Peter Group, Joe Lakeham and Peter Gruber as owners. Bob Myers is a general manager. They got money. More money than. Than God should give 20 people in a lifetime. And they did a great job. They select Step, they select Clay, they get Draymond. Kevin Durant joins them. Sean, you know, they did a great job.
- [72:50]
Tracy McGrady
I'm gonna end this argument right now. Where was SGA before he got. Okay.
- [72:56]
Uncle Mac
Clippers.
- [72:58]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Clippers. Yeah.
- [73:00]
Tracy McGrady
We're. People are talking about SGA catching up with Kobe right now because he's. He's averaged 30 points four straight years.
- [73:08]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Yep.
- [73:08]
Tracy McGrady
Got an MVP. Got a finals MVP. They are putting him in the conversation with Kobe. Bruh. He wasn't even thought of or talked about when he was with the Clippers. Had he stayed with the Clippers. Are we talking about sga?
- [73:24]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
No.
- [73:25]
Tracy McGrady
Right. That's my point.
- [73:27]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Because he would. Because it was gonna be. Because. And that's. And this is what I tell people. Situations matter. Yeah. Because he was not gonna have the ball in his hand. That was Kawhi's team. So he wasn't going to be able to have the freedom like he has an OKC in. In the Clippers. It is. Sometimes you have to leave a situation in order to get your own team in order for you to grow. He was not going to be this. Not with Kawhi there. Because Kawhi was the guy. He's coming off a finals mvp.
- [73:55]
Tracy McGrady
No.
- [73:56]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
So he's a two time finals mvp. He's a two time defensive player of the year. And you mean to tell me this first or second year guard is going to be the center of attention after you gave moved heaven and earth in order to get him? It wasn't gonna happen.
- [74:09]
Tracy McGrady
Not at all.
- [74:10]
Uncle Mac
Hold on. Listen. As great as SGA is, right. Let's say he doesn't have the ball in his hands. As great as he is at okc, you mean to tell me even if it was Kawhi's team and Kawhi had the ball the most, he still wouldn't be able to do what he's doing now?
- [74:25]
Tracy McGrady
No, no, no, no. I think. I still think he'll be an all star, but I don't think we will see. He's not putting up 30 like this. Right. And he probably wouldn't be an MVP with playing alongside Kawhi. No, not at all. Not at all. Because the ball will be a quasi. He's a. He's a two times finals mvp. Ocho and SGA was a young point guard at the time. So that ball was going to be in Kawhi's hands.
- [74:56]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
It's the same situation tmac. What about the situation with James Harden? James Harden was not going to become James Harden in okc. He had to go to Houston in order for him to flourish. Because you got Russ and you got Katie. So how was he going to be able to show you how was he going to be able to show you that TMac?
- [75:13]
Tracy McGrady
No, no. He would have been James Harden In. In OkC.
- [75:20]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Hold on. With Russ.
- [75:21]
Tracy McGrady
With Russ and KD. Listen up, listen up. Listen, I want to hear this one. Listen, did you see how he was coming off the bench putting up numbers, right?
- [75:30]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Yes.
- [75:31]
Tracy McGrady
It was very young. At some point he was going to be inserted into that offense or maybe he come off the bench, but he still would have been James Harden.
- [75:42]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
No, ain't no way. Ain't no way. I'm gonna have to disagree. You mean to tell me you believe this man was going to average 36,
- [75:48]
Tracy McGrady
9 and 8 though? I'm not talking about the numbers. I'm just Saying what he became. Yeah, he would have put up he with those three. All three of them guys probably would have averaged 20 to. To really make it work.
- [76:01]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
He, but he, I mean we got James because James Harden. We fell in James with love with James Harden because what was he doing all them 30 point games, all those 50 and 60 point games. So I, I, so what we gonna do with Russ? So if you say James Harden who needs the ball, what are we gonna do with Rusty Mac?
- [76:21]
Tracy McGrady
At that, at that point James Harden wasn't playing the way he's. He's playing. When he was with Rockets, it was a different style of basketball he was playing.
- [76:29]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
So how can he do that then?
- [76:31]
Tracy McGrady
What you mean how he okay.
- [76:34]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
The style of ball that he ended up playing in, in, in Houston. How could he play that style with
- [76:39]
Tracy McGrady
KD and Russ in OKC coaches coaching. Coaching you. You do not. I bet those guys regret. Well they won a championship now that you know all those guys are gone. But looking back, I bet they want to keep those guys together. You talking James Harden, Russell Westbrook and, and KD together, bro, they would have been a dynasty had they stayed together. They went to the finals up.
- [77:12]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
But James wasn't even close to what he was in Houston.
- [77:16]
Tracy McGrady
He was gonna get there regard. He, he was going to become Mac.
- [77:20]
Uncle Mac
I'm confused.
- [77:23]
Tracy McGrady
I'm not talking the 30 point. I'm just saying he would have been an all star, which was good enough.
- [77:30]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Oh yeah, I believe that. But, but you talk about a guy that average, the guy that's a three or four time scoring champ. We talk about a guy that got a 60 point triple double, a 50 point triple. The numbers that he's putting up with Russ. Because Russ, because now if you give the ball to, if you give the ball to James, that means you take the ball out of Russ hands. Now Russ can, Russ can't. I don't believe Russ could play off the ball. He needs the ball. Kevin Durant. Kevin Durant gonna be Kevin Durant. You get Kevin Durant 14 shots, he gonna get you 29 points.
- [78:02]
Tracy McGrady
That's okay be confused, but that's that. No, hold on. Oh. Oh. But Kevin Durant is the reason why this can work. Because he doesn't need the ball. He's a catch and shoot type guy, right? He's a one dribble, pull up. He doesn't need the ball like that. But these two guys, the way they play, the way Rush pushes the ball, the tempo and you got James Harden and Katie on it. Oh, come on now. But.
- [78:29]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
But if you think about it. So let me ask you this. If KD believes so much he could win a championship in okc, why would he leave for better ball movement?
- [78:42]
Tracy McGrady
I guess he and Russ, the. The relationship between those two. But look at this. Steph Curry, Clay Thompson. Didn't Clay Thompson hit 60 playing alongside Steph Curry?
- [78:52]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Yes, but no dribbles. No dribbles. He. I think he had. I think he had 11. I think he had somewhere between 11 and 13. Okay, Nigel, I was gonna say somewhere between 11 and 13 dribbles. Which one of those guys are catch and shoot other than Kevin Durant? Which one of those guys can catch and shoot?
- [79:08]
Tracy McGrady
James Harden was a catch and shoe guy. James Harden catch and shoot. Russ is not a catch. James Harden. Come on.
- [79:18]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
I'm. But see you. See you look at you looking at. I'm looking at James Harden, what he was in Houston. You looking at James Harden, what he was in OKC as a. As a pup. You know, once you get that taste of blood, it's like you. T. Mac. T. Mac, I give you prime example. I look at you, your first two years when you got started averaging 30, ain't no way you gonna be able to play. You move it forward like you did the first two years. T. Mac.
- [79:45]
Tracy McGrady
Oh, but what I'm saying is stop looking at the 35, 30. What he asked. Stop looking at that. James Harden was going to be the player that we. That was. That. It was just going to be on a lower scale than that. But he was going to be that player that could put up those type of numbers. He was going to develop into that. That's all.
- [80:07]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
But I don't think we look at him like that, because if you think about it, when he had. When he was at his best, we had a serious discussion. T. Mac, who's a better score, Kobe Bryant, Michael Jordan or James Harden? We're not having this discussion if he's an okc.
- [80:24]
Tracy McGrady
I agree to that. I agree to that, but I still think I. Now. I agree to that, but. Okay, what I'm saying is he's still with those two guys. We're gonna be James Harden and also develop into an all star, in essence, still put up 40 points with them. He still can get a 40. He still could get a 50 with them. Ah, he's not going to average 35 because he's not going to have those shots. But I'm saying the player that he was going to develop into with them will be able to do that.
- [81:01]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Is he an all NBA Is he an all NBA
- [81:05]
Tracy McGrady
in okc?
- [81:06]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
In okc? Is he an all NBA player?
- [81:11]
Tracy McGrady
Yeah. Hell yeah. Hell yeah.
- [81:14]
Uncle Mac
Hey.
- [81:16]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Hell yeah.
- [81:18]
Tracy McGrady
The way that man can score the ball. Absolutely.
- [81:21]
Uncle Mac
Hey, Mac. Go ahead, Mac.
- [81:23]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
How you.
- [81:23]
Uncle Mac
How you say, even with James Harden, even though it was a young pup, right, and he would develop into the same player he is now, maybe not scoring 35, but he wouldn't. He would have been just fine with Russ and kd, but you don't feel the same way. If SGA stayed to develop with Kawhi and still wouldn't be able to do the same thing, what would be the difference?
- [81:43]
Tracy McGrady
The difference is, is SGA needs the ball. James Harden don't need the ball. James Harden can catch and shoot. Now I'm saying it's opportunities playing with Russ to get the ball and be a playmaker and a score. But with sg, SGA needs the ball in his head. You will see SGA sitting out on the perimeter. What a catch and shoot James Harden can. At that point in his career, he was a great catch and shoot.
- [82:07]
Uncle Mac
You basically saying that just based off style to play then, okay?
- [82:10]
Tracy McGrady
Yes, sir.
- [82:11]
Julian Edelman
Okay.
- [82:11]
Tracy McGrady
Okay. Yes, sir.
- [82:12]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
But. But see, I look at James, like when he went to. When he went to Brooklyn, he took the ball over because I don't believe he could have played any other way than with the ball in his hand. Now, they didn't play long together. Him, Kyrie and Katie didn't play long. I think Kyrie got hurt and then James ended up getting hurt. And so it really didn't mesh. But I just feel that in order for us to get to James Harden, the guy that's a top 75 player. So you're not gonna. I don't believe he was gonna be a top 75 player in OKC with Russ and KD.
- [82:46]
Tracy McGrady
Oh, no, man. J. Three guys on one team, they scoring 150 points nowadays, bro.
- [82:55]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
But you, the female, they put up some crazy numbers. And you could be right.
- [83:04]
Tracy McGrady
But it's just hard for me to
- [83:06]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
believe seeing the way Russ played and seeing the way James Harden. The way we fell in love with James Harden was when he got to Houston because I knew he could score because I saw him have a couple of 30 point games off the bench. But he burst out the scene first game 35, did another 35, and then he getting 40 and then he getting 40, 45. And I'm like, I thought he could be good, but I didn't think he could be. I didn't think he could be that.
- [83:31]
Tracy McGrady
No. When you have the ball in your hands in the NBA and there's unlimited shots that you could get, and you have the green light. And when you playing in a Dan Tony system, I wasn't surprised by that because I seen what he was. What he was doing in OKC with those two guys. So when now you get the ball in your hands and you in an offensive system, you playing with a. A offensive genius mind. And Dan Tony, you see what he did for Jeremy Lynn. Lynn sanity, right?
- [84:01]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Yes.
- [84:01]
Tracy McGrady
So I, I wasn't surprised by that. I'm just saying what I seen in James and, And how the. What I projected, I saw that he was going to be that type of player regardless.
- [84:15]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
I'm glad you said that because I saw what Jeremy Lyon did when he got with Dan Tony and Kobe was there and Kobe said, give me that damn ball and get your ass out the way. So. So you see, I'm glad you said that. T back, because now we got Jade Harden, who needs the ball? Russ needs the ball. Somebody can't have the ball because if. Look at it. I get. Look at Luca. Look at Luca. And LeBron. Now, granted, LeBron is 41. It'd been very interesting. If Luca is 27 and LeBron is 28. Used to having the ball and Luca now has the ball, it would be very interesting. Brian knows I'm not the same guy right now. I'm 41 years of age. I'm 14 years as senior. You know what? As a matter of fact, damn. Second, I'm going to get in the back seat because at first I was driving, then I started riding shotgun. Now I'm all the way in the back seat because Austin Reeves now has the ball more than LeBron. LeBron basically on the wing in the Duncan spot. He's diving to the basket, shooting. LeBron shoot 13, 14 times a game. T. Mac, I ain't never think I see no bull job like that.
- [85:21]
Tracy McGrady
I'm glad you said that. I'm glad you said. Look, the. The third option on. On like when you have three dynamic players like that. And the third option is getting like 14 shots. So you have Russ, you have KD, you have James Harden.
- [85:39]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Yes.
- [85:39]
Tracy McGrady
KD is the most efficient player we've seen shooting jumpers ever. 15 shots. He getting you 30, huh? Is he not?
- [85:48]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Yep, I believe it.
- [85:49]
Tracy McGrady
That's 15 shots, right? You trying to tell me James Harden with 17, 18 shots, he can't get that with those three guys. What would James Harden do with having 18 shots a game, huh? He gonna put up some numbers huh?
- [86:05]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
He could if he was efficient, like KD. If you look at James Harden is like a 46. 46 from the floor. It's Kevin Durant that's shooting 50 plus.
- [86:15]
Ad Voice
What's.
- [86:16]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Russ. Russ doesn't have that level of efficiency, so you're gonna have to. In order to get points, you're gonna have to put up more shots.
- [86:24]
Tracy McGrady
That's why I was telling you. This is where the coaching comes in, right? This is what. No, I'm serious. This is where the coaching comes in, because you know, you. You know James, when you look at him, he's becoming one of the most dynamic scores right on our team. He in. In the league at this time. He's young, but he's becoming.
- [86:42]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Yes, yes.
- [86:43]
Tracy McGrady
That type of score. Russ, we need you. You remember wrestling, the way he played in Washington when he went to Washington. You remember how he.
- [86:51]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Yeah. With John Wall. Yes.
- [86:52]
Tracy McGrady
Russ would have to play like that. And that's coaching. We. We need you. And. And Russ, a triple double guy. So 10 to 12 shots a game. Russ, you. You still gonna get 15 points. You have 10 rebounds. You have eight and nine, probably your average. A triple double back. He probably would have averaged a triple double back then because he's playing with two of the most dynamic scores that we will see on the same team that is coaching. It could work.
- [87:21]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
They don't seem to be doing a lot of that now these days. Is what you talking about coaching? They seem to be letting these guys do whatever the hell they want. Or because you coach me too hard, I won't want to leave. I. I ain't putting up with your bull job, T Back. You yelled at me. Talk crazy to me in front of my peers. I got to get up out of here.
- [87:39]
Tracy McGrady
Yeah, man. The game is just different. I'll be talking to some of these coaches, man, and. And. And I just want to know, like, what's the mindset? What's the mental capacity of these players? And I talked to some of these coaches, and they like, yo, when these kids miss a, you know, a first. They first couple shots, it's like, they're done. I say, done for what? He's like, they're. They're done for the game. He's like, man, we. Yeah, man. He was like, some of these guys just get in their own way, get in their own head. And I. And I just like, how do y' all get them out of this rut? And it's like, just constantly constant. Just babying and just talking to these kids. Oh, what you Miss a couple shots and you done for the night. Like, it's a different league. But then talking about, you know, the coaching in our era, it was like the Lakers didn't look like San Antonio. San Antonio didn't look like Sacramento. Portland looked a different way. Boston didn't look like Orlando. Like, everyone had a different style in which they played. And when you watch today's game, it's only about a handful of teams that plays a different style. Like San Antonio has a style that I love that they play. Denver has a unique system that they play in. And, you know, you could say Boston as well, but everybody else is just.
- [89:01]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
You don't like jacking up all them threes.
- [89:05]
Tracy McGrady
Boston shoots a lot of threes, too, but I, I don't, I don't like it because everybody is. Don't have the personnel threes. You know what I mean? So why not adapt a system that, you know, ultimately fits your team? Do something that's conducive to the, the talent that you have on your team. And I just don't see a lot of that.
- [89:26]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Hey, you got, we have a, a guy that comes on the third member of the big three. ISO. You, you got any stories about going one on one on one with ISO?
- [89:34]
Tracy McGrady
No. By the time me and ISO became teammates, I, I, I, I was no longer tmac. I was tracers.
- [89:49]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Let me ask you this, T, Mac, because we see how athletic you were. You talk about a guy that's six foot, six foot eight, six, nine, could jump out of the gym. Could you? Either hand. We saw you score all those points in, in a little bit of time. What was the injury that really slowed TMAC down that you saw back? It's like, you don't know what, I'm never gonna be that guy again.
- [90:09]
Tracy McGrady
Yeah. So it, it was not, you know, I didn't tear my acl. I didn't have an Achilles or nothing like that. Mine was just the wear and tear and my. I, Yeah, I had, I had zero cartilage in my, in my knee. So I had micro fracture.
- [90:23]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Yeah, microfracture.
- [90:24]
Tracy McGrady
Yeah, that's what they drill it and
- [90:25]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
try to get the blood to try to get some regrowth.
- [90:27]
Tracy McGrady
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's what's crazy. They don't even do that surgery no more.
- [90:32]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Yeah.
- [90:33]
Tracy McGrady
Did it, did it take, man, it took me like two years for me to even just feel pain free and feel like my, you know, feel healthy again. It was, it was the worst surgery and worst thing that I went through.
- [90:46]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Oh, man.
- [90:47]
Tracy McGrady
Yeah.
- [90:48]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Didn't Penny, I think didn't Penny have microfacture also, man?
- [90:51]
Tracy McGrady
Penny and shout out to Kenya Martin. Kenya Martin, I think had two of them. He came back jumping off the jet. I think he had microfaction as well. That microfaction is no joke. It took a lot of guys out, man.
- [91:09]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
It did. Yeah. I know a couple. A couple of players and has. Rod Wilson had it early in his career, and he came back and played, I think, another, you know, decade. Bruce Smith ended up having it. But Bass, I could just imagine basketball players trying to have it because it's a. It's a. What was it, a six, a six to eight, six to nine month recovery.
- [91:28]
Tracy McGrady
Oh, that was like 12 months, man. A year since 10. 12 months back. Yeah. Yeah. It took me. I had. Man, I had to keep my knee in the machine for, like, eight weeks, man. That was like a grueling, you know, comeback. And. And for me to play those four years after I left was that Houston, it was all about. It was all about just proven to myself that I could come back from this surgery because I was, like, in my 30s. Now. It's proven to myself that I could get back and make an NBA team. I knew I wasn't going to be the same, but it was something. I had to prove something to myself that I could push through this. I had the mental fortitude to push through this and get and make another team. So that was my mindset, man.
- [92:13]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Hey, but TMac, let me ask. Let me ask you, Mac, this, TMac, how hard was it for you mentally? Because you know what you were before? And all of a sudden, you've got to come to grips to you with yourself. This. This is a. This is a battle between T. Mac and Tracy McGrady. Yeah, I've got to come to grips with. I'm never going to be what I once was, and I've got to be what. Got to be okay with that. That's not easy because you know what you were. You were an all NBA player. You people talking about I. I2 guard. Okay, T. Mac, all you guys in, like, all of a sudden, like, damn it. Yeah, I'm not gonna be that anymore.
- [93:00]
Tracy McGrady
So to. To. To be, you know, vulnerable and transparent with y', all, like, that was the darkest time of my life. Right? That was the darkest time of my life because 2007, 2008, we went on a streak and won. I was with the Rockets at this time, and we won 22 straight games, right? 22 straight games. If you go back and look at that roster you like. And look at the guys, the teams ahead of us. Like, how the hell these. This team won 23, 22 straight games. And on top of that, we lost yao. Yeah, game 12. We lost Yao. Like game 12. And we kept that streak going. That was a very, very good team. Very polished team. Veteran team. And we were so connected, man, to win 22 games. I thought that was going to be our year where we at least push somebody to the brink and possibly try to make it to the Western Conference finals. Because I think that if had we beat Utah, I think we played Phoenix, and we kind of had our number with them. But then the following year, right? So now I'm like. My knee was bothering me a little bit in that 0708, I had surgery. So I come back, we sign, run our test in the off season. I'm feeling good. Oh, my goodness, it's time. Surgery. I'm in rehab. You know, I'm trying to get back full strength. My knee ain't right. I'm coming into training camp. My knee's not right. Trying to start the season off. I'm not feeling right, not feeling like myself. So the straw that broke the camel's back. We were in Milwaukee, and I can remember, man, I got a fast break going up. I seen somebody trailing me, so I knew it. I couldn't really elevate if I came up on the same side, was gonna block the shot. So I tried to go up under and dump. And I got hung. I didn't get no lift. And I was like, oh, man. So I get in the locker room at halftime and so much going in my head, I'm like, damn, I ain't the same, man. I can't play. I. I was like, I can't play no more, bro. I got. I gotta shut it down. Like, I was crying, bro. I was like, I gotta. I gotta shut it down. So I shut it down that season, I have. I go to Chicago, I have micro fracture surgery. My team makes it to the playoffs. Now, mind you, we've been killing Portland. Like, Portland was young team up and coming because they had lamarcus Aldrich and Brandon Roy. He. Roy is a problem, by the way. But they were young and we had our way with them. I'm sitting in Chicago, man, in his CPA machine, you know, eight hours out the day, and I'm watching my team play Portland in the playoffs. And they beat Portland. We got the Lakers next. Oh, man, this is my opportunity to play Kobe in the playoffs, in the Lakers play at the Staples center arc. I'm going through it, man. I am going through it. Mind you, I haven't made it out of the first round. My team played Portland and they events and they lost Yao in. In the Lakers series. We take the lake, we take the Lakers to seven games. Oo. And without me, they lost Yao in like game five. They taken the seven games. I'm in Chicago microfaction surgery, depressed, going through it. And I'm like, yo, man, what? Like I'm talking to God, bro. Why me? Why is this happening to me? Why? This is like. These last two years is supposed to be my time. It's supposed to be my window of winning. I lost my window in Orlando because Grant Hill's injury. That was a good window for me in the Eastern Conference for four years. I lost that. I didn't have him. But now this is my window right here. I got another window and I can't. I can't perform. And that, man, that was so devastating because I. I wanted so bad for myself, for the team, for that organization, that group that I was with, we were so tight knit. And I'm out of there, bro. And it was hard for me. So I'm like, God, why? Why does this happen to me? So like, give me something, please give me something to get out of this call. Mr. McGrady, we just want to inform you you made it to the hall of Fame. Thank you, Lord. I appreciate you. Man, that like to hear that brought me back, bro, because that was the man, that, that, that was tough, man. Because we play this game to win. And that was my opportunity to win. And I didn't do it, man. I didn't do it.
- [98:06]
Uncle Mac
Damn, that's dope.
- [98:09]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
I mean, you look at yourself, Grant Hill, there were some guys that had Penny Hardway there goes. Because I'm. I'm. See they get to you back. I'm old enough to remember when Penny came in the league. I'm old enough to remember when Grant came. I know how special Grand Hill was, people. And you look at Grant Hill in college, it's like, bro, what is being. You look at him in Detroit, his first before he had that ankle injury in Detroit. T. Mac, you look At Grant Hill, LeBron James looked like a top five player.
- [98:42]
Tracy McGrady
LeBron James ain't nothing he couldn't do.
- [98:44]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
He could score it, he could rebound it, he could. Hey, he was a point forward. He could defend his ass off. And then he got like what we thought was a simple. A simple ankle injury. And I guess he tried to rush Back or something happened. And he was never the same player.
- [99:00]
Tracy McGrady
I think they misdiagnosed him and rushed him back because he here, like, when he was my teammate, he wasn't supposed to come back to like January, January or February. He ended up coming back in like September. Like, like September, October. Yeah. Like, they had him doing stuff early in that process. Right. And then, you know, it's just. It got worse.
- [99:26]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Yeah.
- [99:27]
Tracy McGrady
And then, you know, at that time, it ain't. It's not like you go out there and get you another player, find you another great hill that the salary cap is not. It's very low. What is compared to today, so you just can't go inside somebody. So we was, you know, we was handcuffed. And I mean it for, for me, it helped me grow as a basketball player, you know, really fast. But, man, I, I. Hey, man, I miss Grant. I miss him out there, bro, because I know what I was doing without him. What could have been in that Eastern Conference with the two of us.
- [100:02]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Can I. I'm gonna get you out of here on this one, T. Mac. Why is it so hard for players of the 80s and 90s to give this generation players credit? Why is it so hard if you give a guy credit in the 2000 and twenties or 2000 and tens, it don't take away from your era in the 22, 1980. It doesn't take away from your
- [100:24]
Tracy McGrady
money, bro. You think that it's money? It's money, bro. The money is what, bruh. Did you realize, like in the 90s, Reggie Miller, Michael Jordan, they only making like two, three million dollars? And that was the top. They were the top guys, man. Two, three. I don't even think anybody making two, three million dollars in the league right now, man. These guys making so much money. It's the money. It's the money and how the league has really catered to the players. They made the league soft for these guys. Trying to talk. You're trying to cut down to 82 games now. I mean, you're trying to cut down 82 and go to 72. I think it's just all the other stuff of, you know, you know, baby. And coddling the players when they making all this money.
- [101:20]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
It has to be that the players got so much. The players have power now. Even the great players back then never had. Oh, I'm talking about guys that might not even be the top. Top dogs got power. That a superstar back in the 80s and 90s could only dream of how they can call their shots and get Me that player or move me here, do this or else. And I got my boys. Hey, guess what? I fly with my massage therapist, I fly with my nutritionist, I fly with my disc, I fly with my that. And you know what? By the way, hey, my homeboy tmac, he come here practice all the time too. So he gonna need an access code to get in anytime he want to get in too. If you tried that date, it's not this like if you don't get your ass up out of here.
- [102:07]
Tracy McGrady
Hey, let me just say, Let me just tell you a quick story. Grant Hill, myself and Tim Duncan was getting recruited by the Orlando Magic.
- [102:18]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Okay.
- [102:19]
Tracy McGrady
Right. Obviously I'm the third guy that recruited because I was a bench player in Toronto. Tim Duncan is coming off a championship. Gray Hill multi, multi, multi time mostly all star at this time. All NBA player. They were going to sign all three of us. Tim Duncan wanted I think his fiance at the time to be able to travel to some games on the road. Well, G. Hill told me Doc said he wasn't going to allow that. So because he couldn't allow, he, he couldn't have his fiance travel with us. That was a deal breaker. You know, we could have had Tim Duncan, myself and G. Hill on Orlando Magic.
- [103:07]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Wow. So some things tmac you just got to make a concession for.
- [103:16]
Tracy McGrady
I don't think it was, I don't think me being in the NBA was for me to win, man. Hey man, I don't think it was in for me to win, bro. I, I really don't man. Because it was just a lot of that happened to me in my career. That was. Damn, bro.
- [103:33]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Hey T. Tonight the Nuggets did beat the Mavericks. Nicola Yic 23 points, 21 rebounds, 19 assists. Jamal Murray 53 points on 19 of 28, nine or 14 from the floor from the three point line. So Jokic had 23, 21, 19. He thought he was an assist short of a. Of his, his 2020 20. There's only been three 20, 20 games where you 20 assists, 20 rebounds, 20 points. Well, we had Nicola Jokic finished an assist short of that.
- [104:09]
Tracy McGrady
We had them, we had them on our network last night on NBC and we were in the studio watching. I thought he was going to have that 20, 20, 20 game last night. The man is unbelievable. You talking about master the game of basketball and, and, and, and, and really look like after the game he just didn't really play a game and don't even give a that he just had 20, 20, 20. Hey man, let me, let Me.
- [104:34]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Let me.
- [104:35]
Tracy McGrady
Let me get on my phone and check my horses.
- [104:37]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
What? My horses.
- [104:41]
Tracy McGrady
Hey, you got somebody out there kicking your ass, bro, and don't even care that he just gave you 20, 20, 20, beat your ass and then he go and check on his horse. I don't care about that.
- [104:49]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
I think the thing is, is that you look at him, it's the same thing with Bird, because they don't jump high, they don't run fast. They're not the big. They don't got no. They don't have Charles Oakley or they don't have Mason or Ron Artest shoulders. So you looking at them like I'm about to tell. Boy, I'm about to do a. I'm about to do a number on him team. Oh, he about to get it.
- [105:09]
Tracy McGrady
And the next thing you know, you
- [105:10]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
look up, this got 30, 15, and 15 on me.
- [105:16]
Tracy McGrady
Yeah, quick. Give me. Give me skill. Give me skill. That man and Luca, they are highly skilled. And if. And that's what I said.
- [105:25]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Watson came back tonight in 23 minutes, 21 points, 4 rebounds, 3 assists on 7 to 10, shooting 2 or 3.
- [105:32]
Tracy McGrady
I'm telling y', all, man. I'm telling you. See, this is what. This is what I saw. And again, can they do it? They probably can't, but I. I'm saying they can't because of the inconsistency. Inconsistency of, you know, them being in and out of the lineup. But what I saw when they added Cam Thomas, I mean, Cam Johnson, when they added, they brought back Bruce Brown and along with the other core that they have and Valentunas as well, right? Adding another big. That can go inside rim protector, and he can step out and run your offense so you don't have that. That drop off when Jokers is on the bench. I was like, yo, that's my championship team right there. Think about it. They were injured last year and they took OKC to seven games. Now they much deeper. But I'm gonna tell you somebody on that team that I'm so, like, just impressed by. And I salute him for the season he's having. He had phenomenal season. Hey, man, that Tim Hardaway Jr. Dog, he is hoping this year, man, who been. When he shoots the ball, it's like Steph Curry this year, like, ah, that's a bucket. That's how well he's shooting the ball this year. He's super duper confident.
- [106:51]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
I need somebody to study Aaron Gordon because all he did was play around. He. All he did was play in the Paint and now he done turn the deal 3.3 points. I mean, you get the, you get the different people in Orlando probably thinking about where was that when you were here?
- [107:09]
Tracy McGrady
Right, right. Hey, man, he got there and worked and they unlocked something there because I damn sure didn't see that in Orlando. But that's a testament to his dedication and his work. Man. Shooting 41, Denver is dangerous.
- [107:22]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Yeah, Denver.
- [107:22]
Tracy McGrady
Denver is dangerous. That's all I'm saying. They are dangerous and they could come out of the Western Conference finals. But I just think that again, that inconsistency and trying to flow that all together and connect that and have it, you know, consistent in a seven game series against team like San Antonio or okc. I don't know. I don't know if it's there, but hey, we'll see, man.
- [107:48]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
T. Mac, thank you for joining us tonight. Seven time all NBA player, seven time all star, two times corner scoring champ, hall of Famer, Tracy McGrady. T. Mac, thanks for joining us tonight, man. We appreciate that, man. Come. Hey, you're welcome to stop by anytime you want to and we can, we can chop it up, bro. We appreciate it.
- [108:03]
Tracy McGrady
Oh, man, anytime y' all want me on here, I ain't doing that.
- [108:08]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Tell. Tell our chat about your podcast. You got a podcast with your cousin vc Talk to us about it. Where can they find it?
- [108:13]
Tracy McGrady
Yeah, man, we trying to catch up with y' all boys, man. It's on all platforms, man. All. All platforms. Please subscribe. Subscribe to that. Me and my cousin just talking the game of basketball. Talking about life. What's the name of it? It's cousins.
- [108:27]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Okay, Cousins. Okay, chat. So y' all hear that cousins Vince Carter and T. Mac got a podcast talking all things hoop. Make sure you check it out on all platforms. Tmac. Again, thanks for joining us tonight, bro.
- [108:38]
Tracy McGrady
Chat, y'. All. Chat, y' all with me. Y' all like me. Can I come back? Can I come back on the show? Chat.
- [108:43]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Yeah. Hey, Chad, y' all want. Y' all want TMAC to come back? Yeah, they say you come back anytime you want to, man.
- [108:51]
Tracy McGrady
That's what it is, man. I definitely come back in the playoffs and we'll chop it up. That's gonna be fun.
- [108:55]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Appreciate it, T. Mac.
- [108:56]
Tracy McGrady
Love, man. All right, baby. I'll catch you. Yes, sir.
- [109:02]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
That's T. Mac. Want to thank him for joining, for joining us tonight, man. Hey, he said he had X amount of time on you. I was trying to get him out of here on the time that he said he said Man, y' all try to cut me short. All right, we'll stay. We'll stay. You welcome to stay, bro. If you work in university maintenance, Grainger
- [109:20]
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Chad Ochocinco Johnson
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- [109:33]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
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- [110:52]
Tracy McGrady
Stand still. Not a chance.
- [110:54]
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