Nightcap Hour 1: Thunder THRASH Luka & Lakers + Cade Cunningham & Ant Man MISS OUT on ALL-NBA Awards + Carmelo Anthony says SGA has MVP on LOCK + Cooper Flagg FRUSTRATED with ROOKIE Season + Steve Kerr Will GO 1 MORE Year

Summary

Club Shay Shay – Nightcap Hour 1: Thunder THRASH Luka & Lakers + Cade Cunningham & Ant Man MISS OUT on ALL-NBA Awards + SGA MVP Hype + More

Date: April 3, 2026
Host: Shannon Sharpe (“Joe”), with Uncle Ocho, ISO Joe Johnson (NBA All-Star), and a guest analyst
Podcast: Club Shay Shay – Nightcap Hour 1

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Episode Overview

This episode of "Nightcap" is a fast-moving, unfiltered discussion centered on the latest NBA headlines, standout player performances, and league-wide implications. The hosts dig into the Oklahoma City Thunder's blowout win over the Lakers, Luka’s injury, the All-NBA eligibility controversy with Cade Cunningham and Anthony Edwards, MVP frontrunner SGA’s phenomenal season, rookie Cooper Flagg’s difficult debut year, and speculation on Steve Kerr’s “last dance” with the Golden State Warriors. Expect sharp analysis, high-energy banter, and plenty of real talk about what separates contenders from pretenders.

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Major Discussion Points & Insights

1. Thunder Dominate the Lakers: Statement Game

• Thunder trounce Lakers 139-96; Luka suffers a hamstring injury (05:01–12:33)

  • Joe (Shannon Sharpe) and ISO Joe lament the Lakers’ lack of effort and defensive collapse, highlighting the Thunder’s depth and two-way play.
  • “Tonight this was OKC putting their foot down, saying, listen...This is gonna be a statement game. We just letting y’all know, man, it’s a huge difference. Cause it’s lonely up here at the top.” — Uncle Ocho (07:56)
  • Emphasize that OKC’s bench scored over 70 points and Isaiah Joe tallied 20 points in just 13 minutes (09:22).

• Lakers Exposed: Lack of Defense, No Answers for OKC Offense

  • The hosts critique Lakers' inability to stop dribble penetration and defend the three-point line. Lakers' lack of individual defenders means their team defense must be perfect—any breakdown, and OKC exploits it (15:03–16:14).
  • “From 1 through 5 in the starter, they don’t have any good defenders…Bron’s 41. I’m not asking a 41-year-old to goddamn sit in the chair and slide his feet side to side...” — Joe (13:23)

• Perspective on Lakers’ Playoff Prospects

  • Consensus: Lakers can beat most teams, but not OKC, San Antonio, or Denver—there’s a clear tier gap. (10:59–12:33, 31:03)

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2. Shea Gilgeous-Alexander (SGA) – MVP Trajectory

• SGA’s Elite Craft and Scoring Compared to Harden, Jordan (17:12–29:32)

  • Hosts rave about SGA’s ability to manipulate defenses, get to his spots at will, and generate efficient offense.
  • “It’s like the Minority Report…he can see things before they actually happen.” — Joe (18:34)
  • “Only he and Jordan has ever scored 30 and shot 50 percent…Let that sink in.” — Joe (29:22)
  • SGA shooting an astonishing 53–54% as a guard (29:51), “Not only are you efficient, but you’re so consistent… you can bet your money on dude, man.” — Uncle Ocho (30:02)

• Why ‘Ball-Dominant’ Stars Need Opportunity

  • Deep dive into player development: stars blossom when offenses run through them. SGA likely wouldn’t have ascended to MVP status if stuck as a third option behind Kawhi/PG or other stars (22:09–27:44).

• Comparing All-Time Great Guards and "Alpha" Status

  • “Magic was not going to be the Magic without that rock.” — Joe (27:37)
  • SGA is “in that stretch” now where he’s toying with defenders like peak Jordan, Kobe, and Harden.

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3. All-NBA Eligibility Rule Fallout: Cade & Ant Man Sidelined

• New Rule Unintentionally Hurts Legit Stars (38:50–44:02)

  • Cade Cunningham (collapsed lung) and Anthony Edwards (knee, illness) will miss All-NBA consideration due to the 65-game minimum; nine of 22 potential all-NBA/all-Defensive players are now ineligible.
  • “Some things you just can’t control…you want to punish guys for load management, but damn, K. Cunningham get a collapsed lung. What are you supposed to do?” — Uncle Ocho (39:17)
  • Hosts agree it’s unfair for injuries to cost players not only accolades but huge contract extensions tied to those awards (39:50, 43:03).

• Rule Has Changed Player Behavior

  • Now, stars rush back from minor injuries to reach game minimums. “Sometimes, Ocho, you gotta impact them pockets.” — Joe (42:47)

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4. MVP Race: Carmelo Anthony Backs SGA

• Melo’s Endorsement (48:16–49:23)
  • “Mellow said, right now Shay has that thing on the lock. 135 games with 20 or more. He broke Wilt’s record. He’s shooting 55 from the field…If that’s not MVP, I really don’t know what is.” — Joe, quoting Carmelo Anthony (48:16)
  • Explores historic company: Bird last won three consecutive MVPs; SGA could enter rarefied air alongside LeBron, MJ, Kareem, Russell (48:49–53:09).

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5. Rookie Reality Check: Cooper Flagg's Tough Year

• Flagg Reflects on Adjustment Struggles (56:13–58:16)

  • The former #1 pick admits the season has been “mentally taxing,” struggling to deal with losing and heightened expectations.
  • “Once we become pros…you start to lose the fun in the game…you getting these—you got bills and stuff now.” — Uncle Ocho’s advice: keep working and don’t lose the love for the game (57:06)

• The Difference Between Amateur and Pro Levels

  • In college, a blue-chip prospect always has the talent advantage—“When you trot your ass out there every night, you ain’t got the five best players on your team.” — Joe (58:22)
  • Now, Flagg is a hunted man—every veteran aims to humble top picks (“you a target…every chance somebody get to play against you, you gonna get the absolute best,” Uncle Ocho, 59:44).

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6. The Pain of Losing – Athlete Mindset

• Winners Hate Losing More Than They Love Winning
  • Animated roundtable about how the sting of defeat overshadows even the euphoria of winning championships—drawing on Shannon’s own Super Bowl heartbreaks and guest input (60:55–68:34).
  • “Losing hurts more than winning feels good. You never feel the high even when winning the Super Bowl…But the losses…” — Joe (60:55)
  • Segment also includes NFL anecdotes on the culture of champions (Patriots), how failure channeled athletes like Jordan and LeBron (“It was getting his ass kicked…that’s what drove him,” Joe 66:01).

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7. Golden State & Steve Kerr’s ‘Last Dance’

• Steve Kerr Likely to Return for One Final Year (71:34–76:32)
  • The hosts debate whether the Warriors can be contenders again, considering Kerr’s rumored last season and the team’s lack of assets to reload.
  • “Unless there’s some major moves, Joe, they not winning no championship with this team.” — Joe (72:33)
  • Speculation about LeBron joining Warriors, but consensus is a rebuild is looming, and the dynasty’s window is nearly closed.

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Memorable Quotes (“Who Said It,” Timestamp)

• “It’s lonely up here at the top…they just big bro’d the Lakers tonight.” — Uncle Ocho (07:56, 09:09)
• “Tape don’t lie. Tape don’t know who you are, how much you make…all it does is record what the hell it’s pointed at.” — Joe (35:50)
• “Not only are you efficient, but you’re so consistent…you can bet your money on dude, man.” — Uncle Ocho on SGA (30:02)
• “Losing hurts more than winning feels good.” — Joe (60:55)
• “Mellow said, right now Shay has that thing on the lock. 135 games with 20+ points, broke Wilt’s record…If that’s not MVP, I really don’t know what is.” — Joe quoting Carmelo Anthony (48:16)
• “Once we become pros…you start to lose the fun in the game…you got bills and stuff now.” — Uncle Ocho’s advice to Cooper Flagg (57:06)
• “Rule is a rule, man. You signed up for it.” — Uncle Ocho on All-NBA eligibility (44:16)

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Key Timestamps

| Topic | Start | End | |-------|-------|-----| | Thunder blow out Lakers, Luka injured | 05:01 | 12:33 | | SGA’s greatness, MVP talk | 17:12 | 30:39 | | All-NBA eligibility rule fallout | 38:50 | 44:02 | | Carmelo/MVP History | 48:16 | 53:09 | | Cooper Flagg’s struggles | 56:13 | 59:44 | | Winners & losing, champions’ mentality | 60:55 | 69:53 | | Warriors/Kerr’s last dance | 71:34 | 76:32 |

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Episode Tone & Style

• Candid & Unfiltered: Hosts speak frankly, often with playful bravado and locker-room banter.
• Insightful & Analytical: Deep dives into player development, league economics, and competitiveness.
• Supportive but Demanding: Tough love for underperformers, heartfelt encouragement for rookies and stars, and high standards for greatness.

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In Summary

This Nightcap episode brings the passion, insight, and realness that Shannon Sharpe and crew are known for. Expect fiery takes on the NBA’s best (and worst), layered analysis of the MVP race, blunt truths for struggling stars, and a celebration of what makes sports compelling—both agonizing defeat and triumphant victory.

Transcript

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Joe]

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[Commercial Announcer]

Foreign

[Joe]

Good evening ladies and gentlemen and thank you for joining us for another episode of Nightcap. As you watch the Lakers get blown out. They did not come. The Thunder are a great team, there's no question about that. But the Lakers didn't show up tonight and it showed. They got beat by 43, 139 to 96. Y' all know who I am. I'm your favorite. My partner and co host. Normally he's having technical difficulties so hopefully he joins us in a minute. But in the meantime we have the third member of the Big three, a seven time NBA all star University of Arkansas alum, Little Rock, Arkansas native. He is ISO Joe Johnson. Joe, what it do?

[Uncle Ocho]

What's happening? What's happening?

[Joe]

Wait. We good boy. That was that. Oh that was BTA tonight. Please make sure you hit that subscribe button. Please make sure you hit the like button. Do us a favor, go subscribe to the Nightcap podcast feed wherever you get your podcast from. We would like to thank each and every one of you for your support and your continued support. 2 million subs does not happen without you and we shall continue to grow. We shall continue to build Shay Shay Media thanks to you and all your continued support. So again, thank you for your support and your continued support. Those looking to purchase a bottle of Shea by Laportier head over to laportiercognac.com if it's currently unavailable in a state or city near you. It is a premium VSOP Cognac, the best tasting, smoothest VSOP cognac on the market. But what you should do is purchase a bottle and compare it against other cognacs you may have tried or you're looking to try and see what we know to be true. Shea by La Portier is the best tasting, smoothest cognac on the market. Please, please drink responsibly and stay safe. Joe, let's get and again, thank you for the 2 million subs. Joe, let's get right into it. The Thunder blow out the Lakers by the score of 139 to 96. Luca leaves the game with an apparent hamstring injury. Uh, no details as of late. I'm sure the press conference is about to happen in the next five to 10 minutes and JJ Redick will give us the diagnosis of. Is it something serious? Something they should be worried about? I'M sure they are. Is this late? It's late in the season. And any injury is of concern because it's probably going to keep you out two or three games that maybe keep you out longer than that. But the Lakers didn't come to play today. The turnovers, the missed shots, and when you play a really good team, Joe, you know, you take ill advised shots, they punish you on the other end. How many times we see guys throwing up shots, the next thing you know, guys are laying up on the other end. They don't, they didn't defend the three point line well tonight and it showed, Joe. Why? I don't know. I guess we gotta look at it from a point. The Thunder, what did it, what did you like about the Thunder and how they took care of business tonight?

[Uncle Ocho]

I, I think. And that's why from one to three is such a huge disparity when it comes to how good OKC is. The only team that I think they can really even challenge them for real is San Antonio because they play similar.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Uncle Ocho]

You know what I mean? But tonight this was, this was OKC putting their foot down, saying, listen, we, we, we see y' all playing, you know, pretty good basketball as of late. You know what I mean? Hey, it's kind of cute too. It's kind of cute. Yeah, it's kind of cute. But let me tell y' all something. This is gonna be a statement game. We just letting y' all know, man, it's a huge difference. Cause it's lonely up here at the top. You hear me? Hey, look, look, they came out. Shay was like, all right, Lou. Dork. I see you got it going on this first quarter, huh? You made four. Three. He, he had, he had it going, man. Second quarter, Shay turned that thing all the way up to the max. What we always talk about. Lakers can't keep nobody in front. Hell, they closing the gap. I see Luka jogging back with his man. Why Shea got the ISO over here coming up the court, man, you need

[Joe]

to be in the gap.

[Uncle Ocho]

Be in the gap. You can't get this, man. No room. And I just felt like they took Luke out the game just being physical, you know what I mean?

[Joe]

They. Yep.

[Uncle Ocho]

See, the thing, the difference is they can score. OkC can score with anybody, you know what I mean? But they gonna defend better than anybody. And they just, they just, they, they big boy.

[Joe]

They, they, they big brother, the Lakers

[Uncle Ocho]

tonight, just to let them know, look, y' all keep having. Y' all look cute season y' all got going on, but Trust me, y' all better stay in that third spot. This is why I tell you they better stay in that third spot.

[Joe]

Yes, that's what I'm saying. Yes. So that way they play two and not have to deal with one because they're. They're not beating. Now, maybe in, in la, the games might be closer, but I think it's a sweep. And I agree with everything that you said, Joe, when you. Because when you look at what the late OKC, they got 70 plus points from their bench. I mean, guys playing. Guys played 13 minutes. Isaiah Joe played 13 minutes, 20 and had 20 points. AJ Mitchell had 16 minutes, he had 10 points. I mean, guys, I mean, they're getting whatever they want, however they want. They get into the rim. Rebound, offensive rebound, 50 to 20, 50 to 38.

[Uncle Ocho]

They just won't.

[Joe]

It was embarrassing and like you said. Yeah, it was. Look, we understand Lakers, y' all won four, y' all won 14 games in April. Luca is a Western Conference player of the.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Joe]

But there's levels to this now. You're right. You know, Understand I'm saying, I just want you to know, like you said. Oh, man. Oh, that's nice. But when you look, everybody looks good. And, and, and the bodybuilding, like, everybody look good when they standing by themselves.

[Uncle Ocho]

There you go.

[Joe]

Now you get your ass on stage with five, ten other guys.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Now all of a sudden, well, like, damn, my back don't look as good as I thought it did. This front lap spread don't look as good. This muscle muscular don't look as good. So the Lakers playing something. You're not playing the Thunder. So beating, beating Cleveland or beating Indiana or beating, beating the Knicks. Oh, man. Damn. Look at the Lakers. Had us, had me hyped. I was hyped for a first round.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Because I don't believe they can beat San Antonio and I don't believe they can beat okc. Do I believe they can beat anybody else in the playoffs? Yes, but. But with a caveat, you mess around and drop back to the fourth spot and you got to deal with the Nuggets, with the way the Nuggets are playing and now they don't got everybody back. Yeah. You're not seeing the Nuggets either.

[Uncle Ocho]

You don't want the problems. You don't want them problems. Man, listen. Hey, it's just a huge gap, huh?

[Joe]

It is.

[Uncle Ocho]

It was nothing. It was nothing they could do. I mean, Shay getting to all his spots, they couldn't stop him. They couldn't keep him in Front it was, man, they took the night off after. Hey, look, after the. After at halftime when I said, Damn, they got 82 points. Hell, you ain't beat nobody with no damn 82 points at halftime.

[Joe]

I mean, I remember times the team still couldn't score 82 points in a full game. Team was scoring 73, 68 point. They gave final score a 73 to 68. They got 82 at the half. That and look, I knew it was over in the first quarter, Joe.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah, they were down 20.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Uncle Ocho]

Hey, listen, I'm like, the Lakers gotta know they can't. I'm speaking for the players. I know, I'm pretty sure the coaches know, but I know Braun and Luke and AR and them know, man, you cannot get off to no slow start against no team like OKC on the road. They not letting you back in the game, bro. No, you down 20 after the first quarter. I said, I said, boy, this hit thing, this thing finna get ugly. Next thing you know, they down 30 at the half and gave up 82 points. Man, you ain't be nobody like that, huh?

[Joe]

As good as they've been playing team defense. Because they don't really, when you really look at it, Joe, from 1 through 5 in the starter, they don't have any good defenders. Bronze41. I'm not asking a 41 year old to goddamn sit in the chair and slide his feet side to side, front to back for 35 minutes a night. And that's what he's playing. He about playing somewhere between 34 and 35 minutes a night. I'm not asking him to do that. Luca is not playing defense. AR is not playing defense. Tonight was one of those night for DA. I mean, one rebound, no assist in 20 minutes. At seven foot tall, you should be able to. You should be able to get at least. You should be able to get me three rebounds every five minutes that you on the court. At least three. That's all I'm asking.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah, they can't, they couldn't get no stops on.

[Joe]

But I guess when you're taking the ball out the net, it's hard to get a rebound. You don't get credit for a rebound. You take it out today.

[Uncle Ocho]

That's what I'm saying.

[Joe]

It's like, Joe, they got up a hundred. Joe, the Thunder got up 102 shots. I don't remember the last time I saw somebody get up 102. A hundred and two shots. 54 from the floor, 45 from the the three. And they only shot 13 free throws. Shea shot 25 by himself the other night. Oh, if you really look at it, it was an off night for the Thunder and, and they got 139.

[Uncle Ocho]

Hey, hey. Everybody on OKC team is live. And what I mean by live is when they catch it, they don't have no indecision on what it is they gonna do. They, they, they very decisive on their decision making. I'm talking about whether it's I'm gonna score, I'm a penetrate kick. When you watch the Lakers, everybody's like

[Joe]

that when they play the Lakers. You live, put the ball on the floor, nobody's gonna be able to keep you in front of them. So I, hey, at least I will get, if I don't get all the way to the basket, I'm going to get halfway to the basket, somebody's going to come, somebody's going. How many times you see the driving kick for wide open threes corner threes, top of the key threes, side three. How many times we see that tonight?

[Uncle Ocho]

A bunch of times.

[Joe]

So that's the problem that the Lakers have anybody when they played like everybody is live, everybody looks like an all star or an all NBA player for the most part. When they play the Lakers, yeah, they play great. They over the, in March they played really, really good team. Help defense.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah but, but the, the, the thing is, and that's what they have to, that's what they have to stick to on. They have to be a, a, a, a team that, that helps defensively and play great team defense. Because if you don't have great individual defenders then you gotta have great team defense. Meaning closing off lanes, sprinting back to where we all can see ball. Man, it was too many times I seen them dudes jogging up the court with they man while the ball on the other side of the court knowing to keep nobody in front of them.

[Joe]

The problem that you have Joe, is that to play help defense you gotta be locked in all the time for the full 48 minutes of the game. Cause any breakdown is a layup or it's a wide open shot. And so when one person is disengaged, that's why a team is so valuable. Because you're only as strong as the weakest link. So if one person has a breakdown, two people have a breakdown, it's a layup. And when you play come in like they did tonight and you're not, you have, you're half hearted, you're going through the motions. You get 80 plus points hung on you in the first half, you get 80 or 45 points hung on you in the. In the first quarter, and you get beat like this here. That's embarrassing.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah. Oh, man. But, but, but, but, but think about it, you know? This is why I say they have to be on the string. This is why they can't take plays off. Unk. We at the end of the season, we still jockeying for playoff position. Like, we can't. We shouldn't come out lethargic like that if I'm the Lakers, you know what I'm saying? Like, we should come out ready if we can't control nothing. Now, we can't control if we miss or make shots. But our energy and effort gotta be a constant. It's gotta be a constant.

[Joe]

Oh, we see Ocho has joined us. Joined us tonight.

[Uncle Ocho]

What's up, gang?

[Joe]

Good. You finally got it fixed.

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah. Yep. Everything is good now. Everything is good now. I'm happy to be here. I miss y'. All. And outside of that, what's up? Yeah, I'm feeling good now, Twin. I'm good. I'm good. I'm right here, Twin. You know, I'm just. I'm just. You know, anytime I get to lay eyes on my fellows, man, it's a blessing, you know, God is good all the time, Joe.

[Joe]

I'm just trying to figure out. Think about it, boy. I love to be Shay. That man got a 25 shots in 30 minutes.

[Guest Analyst]

Hey, hey, I got a quick. Hey, I got a question, Joe. Hey, Uncle Joe, man, how in the hell nobody have an answer for Shay when he put that goddamn ball on the floor? Boy, you talking about being able to manipulate defenders, being able to get to his spot and do what he want to do. Hey, hey, is he. Is he. Is he not the best at that right now?

[Uncle Ocho]

Hey, listen, you seen it. You seen it. Hey, listen, you see the way that boy be bending them corners when he get low? They can't do nothing with him. See, he already know, Ocho. Them dudes can't stay in front of him, man. He already know that. You know what I mean? And the pressure that he put on them dudes. You got to be in some shape, man, to be able to compete with that team.

[Joe]

It's almost like Venice. James Harden, remember James Harden had that stretch in Houston, Joe, in Houston, and nobody could keep him out of the lane. Nobody could keep him from the basket. And he was getting those fouls. Cause he gets you on his hip, and then he jumped back into you. Cause remember, they changed the rules. Because before he Was jumping into guys getting fouled on three point shots.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Making four point plays. But Shay right now, he.

[Guest Analyst]

He.

[Joe]

The game is like. It's like he sees everything. It's almost like the Minority Report. And I know we saw that with Tom. With Tom Cruise and how he. And everything. The Precogs.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

See things before it actually happened.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

That shape. He can see things. He's like, okay, I know where y' all gonna be. Like, I'm gonna go here. You gonna come there and. Okay, you know what? I can squeeze through here. I can. You know what? I can get through this.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

If you live in the country, you know, if you got an entrance. Mike's coming in your house. Hey, you're like, man, I don't know how they got in. Let me show you how they got here. Right here, man. How. Shake it to the basket. Hey, stop it right there. That's how he got in. Right there. Look at that gap y' all got between y' all two. Y' all basically got to be stacked. Y' all got to be leg behind lead. Because if you're not. If there's a crease, he's getting through there.

[Uncle Ocho]

Hey. And it seems like. It seems like he's moving at just a pace that's just a lot faster than everybody else. I don't know if it's me, but you see how he lured you to sleep. And then he hit that quick burst and like, he going right by him. Like, the. The game is so easy for him, man. I love watching him play. And you can. I think. I think what I love the most is how he uses his body to create contact. He uses the defender's momentum when they guard them to get them bumps. Get into his. Get into his midi. Get into his fadeaways.

[Joe]

He.

[Uncle Ocho]

Him, bro. He. I know he a tough guard out there. I mean, they can't do nothing with him out there, Uncle Ojo.

[Joe]

Okay. No, they can't. I mean, they try to. Look, he's. He's having one of those. He's having. And what I like to see about guys, because, look, he's a first round pick, but they didn't see this.

[Uncle Ocho]

No.

[Joe]

And I like to see guys improve year after year after year after year, you know? I mean, your top five pick, you're like. I mean, we expect to think. Even lottery picks, I mean, most of the time, guys that win mvp, maybe with the exception of Jokic being in the second round, but for the most part, they top five top ten picks.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Joe]

You getting Bird Magic Kareem, you getting Jordan. You know Kobe won an MVP. You get guys like Harden, you get LeBron. You know, you get guys at the top of the food chain. Yeah, but for this guy to, to, to have figured it out and to be. Look, I think there's one or two right now still. If you gave me a choice, say you. I'm gonna give you one player to take right now to start your franchise with. I'm taking Jokic. I just, I'm always gonna take the bigger, the bigger guy, but he ain't. I mean, right now is him, Jokic, and I believe it's Wimby. I believe those are the three best players, Joe, in the NBA right now. I just, it's just hard for me. I just, I just can't leave. 29, 29, 13 and 10, 29, 13, 11. Joe, I just can't leave that.

[Uncle Ocho]

I know.

[Joe]

I can't leave it.

[Uncle Ocho]

I know.

[Guest Analyst]

Hey, you know, you know what I don't understand? You know what I don't understand, Uncle Joe. Listen, all of us, especially at that level with regards to sports you play, we have a thing called understand another game. There are certain things that players have. It's called the it factor. And the fact that even when he was with the Clippers and that as great as Kawhi was, I understand the run that Kawhi had, obviously went in with Toronto, you know, but how do you see what Shea is doing and you see the it factor and you see the understanding of, okay, he's special, you still let him go. There's no way. They say, you know, we gonna let him go because there's no way he gonna turn out the wood he's been. There has to be some of what we're seeing now over there when he was in la, it, it had to be.

[Joe]

How can you not see that Joe wasn't on here? When we had TMac and TMac said he believed. He said James Harden would have been the same guy that he turned out to be had he stayed in OKC with KD and, and Russ. And I said there's no way, cuz he's not going to have the ball. I said there's no. I say TMac, there's no way. And I hate arguing with a guy that's a Hall of Fame player, but it's hard for me to fathom that with the ball going to be in Russ hand at the end of the game or KD and James Harden turns out to be what he is. James Harden is not going to be a top 75 player with those guys. He had to go to Houston and have the ball. Now if you tell me we're going to move on. Could Shea have been this in la? Yes. But I believe as long as Paul George and Kawhi is not there, because he's going to be the third option.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe]

Third option. Don't. Don't blossom like this. So guess what they did even when they had Chris Paul in okc. What did they do to Chris Paul? They got up off him.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Joe]

What did they do? James Harden had Chris Paul. What did they do? They got up off it because he was gonna have the ball. He needed the ball too. What they do with Russ, they got up off it.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

I'm just a better example. Norm Nixon. Norm Nixon was an all star point guard with the Lakers. They got magic. What did they do to Storm and Norman? Trade him to the Clippers.

[Uncle Ocho]

That's the goal.

[Guest Analyst]

Hey, we talk about the. Hey, hey. We talk about the best of the best.

[Joe]

Yes.

[Guest Analyst]

You know, so basically what you're saying, if they don't have the ball in their hand, then they one dimensional. They mean they can't. They have no other aspects of their game. They can evolve and. And change their game to be able to shoot whoever has the ball all the goddamn time saying their greatness is damn near stifled because they don't have

[Joe]

the ball oo with the ball in their hands. You got. Let me try to give you an example. Let me ask you a question. If t. If Jerry Rice stays in San Francisco and they still feed him, can Tio become what he became in San Francisco?

[Uncle Ocho]

No.

[Guest Analyst]

Because it's only one ball to go around.

[Joe]

That's my point. So in order. In order for to. In order for to grow, what did they do to Jared Ocho?

[Guest Analyst]

You gotta go

[Joe]

for JSN to do what he did and become what he became. Could DK have been there? Could Tyler Lockett have stayed there?

[Uncle Ocho]

No, sir.

[Guest Analyst]

No. I don't know why I'm viewing the basketball game a little different.

[Joe]

Because look, look, some guys can play off the ball. Luca needs the ball in his hand. LeBron has been able to adapt for the longest. LeBron can play off the ball. He still. I still believe LeBron would be better if he had the ball, but he understands at 45, this is Lucas team now. He have to adapt. He's better at adapting. And because he's played so long, he had to adapt. LeBron was a downhill guy. Well, as you get older, you can't get downhill like you once could. So what did he have to do? Develop the three ball.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

He knew he was gonna lose some athleticism. What did he do? A king. Teach me. Hey, teach me that Dream Shake.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah, let me get some of that.

[Joe]

Kobe went to the Dream Shake. Kobe went to Elijah. One say teach me that. So in other words, Ocho. Yes. You got to think about it. You got a two time defensive player of the year and a two time finals MVP in his 20s. He's 20 something years old. You're not turning the franchise over to a guy in his second or third year when you just gave up heaven and earth to get that guy. Right?

[Uncle Ocho]

Right.

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah. And some people obviously that know the game better than I do. I mean, Uncle Joe, Joe. When I think about it, I look, I look at football players, obviously you're only good as your opportunities you get. And being in basketball, it's only five people on the court. And, and most of the time, even if you do have someone single handedly holding the ball most of the time, if you're great, no matter what, whether you handle it or not, that greatness is always going to show. Because when those opportunities present themselves, yeah, I'm there. I'm gonna show up. That, that's, that's why I only have a little bit of pushback. But obviously uncle and you would know better than I do, especially in that. Because regardless of how great you are, if your game evolves and you have to adapt to the situation that you win because someone else has the ball most of the time I'm just thinking, listen, no matter where I'm at, no matter the situation, greatness is going to always show up and you're going to be that guy. Especially with the way, the way Shay playing.

[Joe]

But he needs the ball in order to be that. Shay is really not an off the ball player. If you notice when Shay's in the game, what have in his hand? Oo he has the ball.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Can he occasionally slash? Can he occasionally dive? Yes. But most of the time he's calling for the pick.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah. Or telling him to get out the way.

[Joe]

Get or get out of the way. Mainly is Jaylen Williams coming off the, coming off the pin down, coming off the slip or the flare. That's not Shay. Yes. Guys can be great. Magic Johnson needed the ball. Magic Johnson is a point guard.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Could he cut occasion? Yeah, he could. Because sometimes Norm Nixon had the ball. But Magic was not going to be the Magic without that rock.

[Uncle Ocho]

Absolutely not.

[Joe]

And that's why that's why Biggs don't get the credit that they deserve? Because what? I got to get you the ball.

[Guest Analyst]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe]

People don't give Kareem Will, Russell, Duncan, Shaq. They don't get the credit they deserve. Man, he can't do nothing without the ball. At least most guards, most small guys, six, eight and under, the handle the ball. Guess what? I can bring the ball up to court. Yeah, occasionally we saw Shaq, you know, a couple of times get open break, but for the most part, that's not what they're doing.

[Uncle Ocho]

Right, Right.

[Joe]

But Shay is. I've been watching a lot of balls. He's. He, he. He's in that, he's in that stretch right now, Joe. He's in that stretch now. Some guys stand to say a long, long time.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Jordan was in it from 81, from 84 to 91, 92. He retired, come back and then get back in it again. And you see LeBron, you see Kobe, you see James Harden. I'm talking about guys that have the ball. And we like, they out there touring with folk, man. James Hartman. Joe, you was in the league with James like this, man, literally playing with people. Yeah, yeah.

[Uncle Ocho]

He wasn't. Hey, I think with Shea, what's this, his third, fourth year in a row, averaging 30 a game.

[Joe]

Yes. And he shoot 50. That's what you. That's what. It's the, the most impressive thing to me is not the 30 because you can take a bunch of bad shots and get the 30 points you shoot enough, but it's the 50%.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Only he and Jordan has ever scored 30 and, and shot 50 about it. Let that sink in.

[Uncle Ocho]

As a perimeter guy.

[Joe]

Yeah, that's as a guard.

[Uncle Ocho]

As a guard. Yeah.

[Joe]

Big. The big's out of question. I mean, they dunking the ball, laying the ball up. They don't count.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

I mean, joke is shooting 57. Damn. Percent Shaq. I think Shaq might be a career 58, 59. He was shooting. I remember. What, what was that? DeAndre Jordan shot like 70 all over. Alley hoop dunks, lob dunks, put back dunks and layups.

[Uncle Ocho]

I think he, I think shay shooting like 53, 54%. Yes, like that. I don't think people understand how insane that is to be a guard.

[Joe]

Yes.

[Uncle Ocho]

Shooting that percentage. Like, bro, you are. Not only are you efficient, but you're so consistent. You know what I mean? Night. On a night to night basis, bro, you can bet your money on dude, man. And he getting it done. Okay, Ocho, bet your bottom dollar. Hey, hey, and the thing is, you know, he just. It's like he putting his foot on the gas because he having a lot of these statement games, you know, they run. You talking about your own. It's like everybody who we play against that's supposed to be competing within this MVP race and that boy putting it down, man, he ain't playing outside of when they played Boston.

[Joe]

Hey, since I got y' all here. Hey, let me show y' all something.

[Guest Analyst]

Hey, after. Afternight, after tonight's game, does that change your view on the Lakers? Despite how.

[Joe]

How happy I never. I never ocho for worry about. I never thought they could beat the Thunder. I never thought they can be San Antonio in seven games.

[Uncle Ocho]

Okay, but, but, but for the Lakers to be a 3C. Ocho.

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah.

[Joe]

You can't get beat like that.

[Guest Analyst]

They can't lay an egg like that.

[Joe]

You see the.

[Uncle Ocho]

No, no. What I'm saying is it's a huge gap in between one and. That's how great. That's how great OKC is. That's what I'm saying. I think the Lakers pretty good. But when you talking about competing against the best, the champs. Come on, King.

[Joe]

And 10.

[Commercial Announcer]

Why are we trying so hard?

[Joe]

So I can breathe. Why do you need to breathe?

[Commercial Announcer]

So I can think.

[Joe]

If I can breathe. If I can breathe, I can think. If I can think. If I can think. If I can think Then I can win. Rated r in theaters April 10 hey,

[Commercial Voice]

Donald, really flying on that treadmill.

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I'm trying to run as fast AS

[Guest Analyst]

T mobile 5G home Internet, Zach.

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[Commercial Announcer]

Really?

[Joe]

How's this?

[Commercial Voice]

T Mobile's faster than that, bud. Speed up.

[Joe]

No.

[Commercial Voice]

Plus, they've got a five year price guarantee.

[Joe]

Come on. Faster. How can I go any faster?

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[Joe]

Hey, whoa, whoa. That's too fa.

[Commercial Voice]

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[Joe]

Get on the fast track.

[Commercial Announcer]

T Mobile now has the fastest 5G home Internet. And for a limited time, it starts at just 30 bucks a month with

[Joe]

autopay and a voice line.

[Commercial Announcer]

Plus a five year price guarantee plus taxes and fees. Fastest according to Ooklev Speed test intelligence data. Second Half 2025 all rights reserved. Guarantee for monthly price of 5G Internet data on eligible plans. Find exclusions and details attmobile.com Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stock, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to Public and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete Disclosures available at public.comdisclosures alright, quick

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[Uncle Ocho]

bro, you can't come out here and

[Joe]

y' all get off.

[Uncle Ocho]

Then y' all down 8.18to4 to start the man, please. Who y'. All. You get down on this team, they

[Joe]

gonna put you away. And, and. And. And that building starts to rocking because there's nothing else going on there. Oklahoma is. Is college. Is football. Oklahoma. Oklahoma State. That's what you got. So that's. So they going crazy. Yeah, it was. It was embarrassing that the Lakers came out and gave that kind of effort after the effort that they've been given the last month for them to put that kind of. To put that on table, you know, that's what we say. That's what you put on tape.

[Guest Analyst]

Hey, that's what you know.

[Joe]

You know people gonna see that, right?

[Guest Analyst]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe]

I just want you to know the next team and the next team and the next team, that's what they gonna see. The cave don't lie. See, that's what I tell people. Tape don't lie. Cause the tape don't know who you are. It doesn't know if you black or white. It doesn't know if you make 20 or $20 million. It don't know nothing. You don't know what time of day it is. It don't deal. Nothing. All they do is record what the hell is pointed at.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah. Hey, hey, look. When I used to be in the games, that's how I used to be thinking about Uncle Ocho. I got make sure I'm in my spot. That way, when we look at film tomorrow. All in, Joe. Talk about waiting. Do this. So why you wasn't here? I used to hate that. So I make sure I'm always in my spot. I make sure I got a hand, make sure close out hard. You know what I mean?

[Joe]

Little stuff.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe]

Cause I already know because it get real bad. We gonna watch that thing. And the last thing that you want to do is watch that thing of the team, Ocho. Like, oh, Lord have mercy. Yeah.

[Guest Analyst]

And air. And everybody looking at you.

[Joe]

Hey, hey, 84, what you doing on this one, huh?

[Uncle Ocho]

Huh?

[Joe]

Oh, yeah, yeah, that's me.

[Uncle Ocho]

Hey, they keep rewinding it too.

[Joe]

Yeah, Joe, we had. We had the special team. We had. Our special team. Coach at the time was Richard Smith.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

And kicked off playing San Francisco. Boom. I'm talking about the dude. I'm talking about. Dude got. He was on kickoff Team. The kick returned. Dude jacked him up, bow. So he read it back. He said, I'm tired of telling you every time I talk to you in every game, you're on the ground. So he rewinded. Look, you're on the ground again. Rewind it. You're on the ground again. He rewinded five times. How about you? On the ground again? It's the same play. I was like, I wonder if he knows that this is the same place. He just rewinded. But we. But it's. Because the thing is, Joe, you know, a lot of times you can get away with stuff in the game because you're like, oh, nah, we. You know, we don't blow this team out. Yeah, we ain't gonna watch this tape or anything like that. But when you get everybody. An entire offense is there together. So the offensive line watching it, the wide receivers and running backs and quarterbacks, so we in there as a unit. I'll be like, God dang you. Sorry. Damn. I'm like, hey, hey, 84, you got to be strong with your outside. You just saw that man pull the. Out of our tackles at 300 pounds, and you talk about sharp. You need to be strong with your outside arm. You should have told him.

[Uncle Ocho]

Okay. Hey, that film session. Hey, boy. Hey, that field says it'll start a fight for sure.

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah.

[Uncle Ocho]

Hey, that film says you're real, boy.

[Joe]

They run that back.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

All right, bro. We just saw it. Now. Okay, now. Okay. Keep being funny.

[Guest Analyst]

Enough is enough.

[Joe]

Keep being funny now.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

I don't miss those days, man. Listen, Kate Cunningham is out at least one more week due to a collapsed lung. And Anthony Edwards, out due to a reoccurring knee issue plus an illness. Both will be unable to play the minimum 65 games required to be eligible for postseason awards. Nine of the 22 players who may be all NBA or all Defensive teams are now ineligible this season.

[Uncle Ocho]

Joe, this is insane, fellas. You know, because some things you just can't control. And, you know, you put the rule in because you want to punish guys for low management and things of sort, but damn, K. Cunningham get a collapsed lawn. What are you supposed to do, Uncle Ocho? What are you supposed to do now? Yeah, he can't even. He can't even. Come on, man. Man, He.

[Joe]

He. Somebody gonna get those spots, Joe. They gonna get a big contract extension because they got it all. NBA. All in all defensive team.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yes, sir.

[Guest Analyst]

Because they were. Because they was available.

[Commercial Announcer]

Yes.

[Uncle Ocho]

They gotta pick somebody.

[Joe]

Yes.

[Guest Analyst]

Hey, it. It's almost unfair. It's almost unfair to the star players that would make. That would get all. That would get all NBA, you know, especially when if an injury, you know, comes about and now you're punishing the player for being hurt.

[Uncle Ocho]

Well, it looked like we agreed to this. We had to agree to this 65 game. You got to play.

[Joe]

Yep.

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah, that's. Hey, that's tough.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah. Cause. Cause K definitely would have been. He for sure. Probably would have been first or second.

[Joe]

Second team.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Because it's going to be hard because when you look at it, Joe, you got Luca, you got Shay, you got jb, you got K. Cunningham, you got Wimby, and you got Jokic. That's six players. Only five get to the first team.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah. So you might well take K. Don't want up out of there now.

[Joe]

K off all the teams. Yeah. First, second and third. So now somebody gets to come into the mix that might have been on the outside looking in. Two people right on the outside looking in.

[Uncle Ocho]

Damn, that's wild, man. Yes, but this, this is.

[Joe]

They brought this on themselves, sitting their ass down. The big games come on Saturday night or the games come on and ain't nobody available. So the NBA said, you know what? We put a stop to this. 65 games. They agreed to it because it sounded like a good idea at the time. It sounded like a good idea. See, what happens is that the boy that cried wolf, Ocho, he cried wolf so many times that when the wolf actually came, ain't nobody listening.

[Uncle Ocho]

There you go.

[Joe]

See, these guys really hurt.

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah.

[Joe]

They lied so much about injury. And I'm injured. I'm this and I'm that. Boom, there it is.

[Guest Analyst]

You got. They shouldn't agree to it, Hun.

[Uncle Ocho]

Joe, man, I mean, I. I ain't gonna say you shouldn't agree to it. I just think obviously it's it. It cut out the load management to some degree. But yeah, just. You just had these unfortunate situations with the Anthony Edwards and K. You know, them dudes love playing, man. They don't be right like that.

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah.

[Uncle Ocho]

You know what I mean? So you got guys who you were trying to punish, but you end up punishing the innocent.

[Guest Analyst]

That actually hurts.

[Uncle Ocho]

These dudes are showmen, bro. When they come, they play every night, they put on the show, they put up numbers, they great for the game. And it's just unfortunate that this rule has kind of ruled them out for any awards.

[Joe]

But guess what, Joe, what's happening? It also got guys come because normally guys take an extra week. Well, you know, I'm Gonna make sure I'm healthy. It got guys bringing their ass back. You see? Yokage brought his ass back, didn't he? You see? Whitby brought his ass back, didn't he?

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Luca brought his ass back, didn't it?

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Joe]

It got guys bringing their ass back instead of saying, you know, I'm gonna take me an extra week off.

[Uncle Ocho]

Okay, yeah. Right, right, right.

[Joe]

Okay.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Joe]

These guys sometimes, Ocho, you got to impact them pockets.

[Guest Analyst]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe]

I hate it. I do. It's different. Go ahead, Ocho.

[Guest Analyst]

I'm gonna say, every time they win one of those awards, Joe, you get extra money, like an incentive.

[Uncle Ocho]

Some people got incentives, but.

[Joe]

But, yeah, yeah, you get that Supermax.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

That's when you start getting the four to five years, 300. That's when you start getting. That's when you start getting on up there. You get the all NBA team all defensive or an MVP or Defensive Player of the Year. So you get those awards. It's kind of like, Ocho, if we had. Not like. Like if we did it like football. A Pro bowl, right? Or an All Pro or receipt. Wide receiver. I. I don't know if they still do that. NFL, pa. Wide Receiver of the Year. They still do that, Ocho.

[Guest Analyst]

I heard that. I ain't heard wide receiver of the Year before. I've heard all the offensive player of the year. Outside of that, they used to have.

[Joe]

What you call them because I was tight end. I was a tight end. I was in 96. I was the tight end. Hell, I thought he should have won it a couple more times. But that's neither here nor there. But no, they used the NFL.

[Uncle Ocho]

Upa.

[Joe]

Used to have. Used to have used Award. Yeah.

[Guest Analyst]

I ain't know about that, man. And that's messed up how they play with them boys. Money like that.

[Uncle Ocho]

Now, damn.

[Guest Analyst]

If you don't play. If you don't play, shoot, if you miss. Oh, so now I'm not. I'm not eligible for the Super Max? Because now I'm really hurt and you want to punish me for that.

[Uncle Ocho]

Hey, Ruler, a rule is a rule, man. You signed up for it.

[Joe]

Yes, and that's the thing, Ocho. It's like what we talk about, Ocho. We get mad. Cause guys ain't got guaranteed contracts. But what do those guys do? You see right now, the. The CBA ain't up until 2030. The NFL already going back to the networks. Say, look at what y' all tried to do. Put a little package. You see what they did? Now we Ain't talking about this. But you see what they did, Ocho. Remember they used to have the double header and the triple head on Monday night. They say, we're gonna take that away. What we gonna do? We're gonna package it. Now, who won a little five, six game packages for about 500 meal. Definitely say we want it. Amazon say, we'll take it. You see how they did that on Joke?

[Guest Analyst]

Hey, now they. Now they bidding. They want highest bill.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yes.

[Guest Analyst]

Come on, talk to them.

[Joe]

Now the money is there. Kirk Cousins. Do you realize, like, 97, 98 of Kirk cousins money has been guaranteed? So this notion that they can't guarantee, like, it's just not true. Oh, oh, yeah. But see, you say, hey, Kirk cousin, y' all want your boy? Hey, do what I need. I need to make the money right? Yeah. I don't need my money to jump funny at no point in time make the money right.

[Guest Analyst]

Funny thing about it.

[Joe]

So go ahead.

[Guest Analyst]

Now, I would say for somebody like Kirk Cousins, I mean, you know, God has favor, and it's all about timing. When it's in the NFL and at times, Uncle Joe, you got to bet on yourself. And when it comes to good luck and when it comes to timing, Kirk Cousins has been a model citizen in that area because he is hit right every single time. Uncle not mistaken, is he? Is he not the highest grossing NFL quarterback of all time?

[Joe]

When it's all said and done, he just got 20 million guaranteed from the. The Raiders and the Falcons still owed him 10.

[Uncle Ocho]

Get money there, Kirk. Kirk had to get money.

[Joe]

But it just goes to show you, Ocho, you know why he was able to get guaranteed money?

[Guest Analyst]

Why?

[Joe]

Because they really wanted him. They franchised him twice. And Minnesota says, you know what? We want you. We're gonna put you on a three year deal and we'll fully guarantee the contract. They said, well, damn. Yeah. He's like, you do that for me, okay? You want me to come back? I'm gonna need another three years fully guaranteed. You know how I know they'll fully guarantee the contract? Cause the Cleveland Browns did it for Deshaun Watson. 230 million.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

So they can, if they wanted to guarantee money if the players really put their foot down. But you got to be able to miss some checks. You got to be able to get some checks. Now, the problem that you have is that a lot of times the lower tier guys don't see themselves as guys being able to make that big money. So they say, I need this right now.

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah.

[Joe]

See, they don't look at themselves like the star quarterbacks. Star quarterback. Say, let me have you two look at our Brock purdy, prime example, Mr. Irrelevant, one of the highest paid players in the NFL. I don't know if wide receivers and other positions see themselves as that being possibly them. Only the quarterbacks look like, well, damn, I can be bad for a year or two. Have one good year.

[Guest Analyst]

And still. And yeah, you said you set the life.

[Joe]

So that's like. But that's. But that's how you got to do it. And I just think the thing is, the NBA said, man, I'm tired of y'.

[Uncle Ocho]

All.

[Joe]

Y' all talking about load. And how do. How do I know? Ocho, you say, man, you call, hey, man, I'm a little under the weather, so I. I ain't gonna be able to. I ain't gonna be able to make work. How do I know? How do I know I ain't in that person's body? So I don't know if his ankle is really hurting, if he's really dealing with any soreness or his back is hurting. So I tell you what I'm gonna do. We know y' all want them titles because, hey, when it comes down to picking, hey, how many all star time. How many all NBA selections were you? How many all Defensive Warrior MVPs were you?

[Uncle Ocho]

Hey, they paying for that. You get a little extra for all that.

[Joe]

A lot of extra. Carmelo Anthony believes SGA has the MVP locked up. Up. Mellow said, right now Shay is. Has that thing on the lock. 135 games with 20 or more. He broke Wilt's record. He's shooting 55 from the field. He's having a better MVP season this year than he did last year. And he leaves the league in clutch scoring, carrying that defending champs maybe again to the best record in the NBA. If that's not mvp, I really don't know what is. If he wins it this year, he's up there with LeBron, MJ and Russell.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah, damn. Because look, I think the thing is.

[Joe]

Because he's back to back. Yeah, right. Bird. Bird is the last to win it three consecutive times. He won it 84, 85, 86. He's the last three time MVP. Jokic is the last two time back to back. Jokic won it Back to back. LeBron won it back to back twice. Jordan, obviously he's won it back to back. I'm trying to think the magic went in back to back. I'm not sure. I know Kareem. I know Kareem King of the town.

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[Joe]

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[Uncle Ocho]

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[Joe]

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code free [e-mail] Russell Chamberlain so the back to back. Oh it's. It's tough Ocho. Cause you talking about the 80 year history and LeBron, Jordan, Bird, Kareem. Russell Chamberlain got six guys off the top of my head unless Magic check and see if Magic won. I know Magic won it three times but I don't know if he went back to back.

[Uncle Ocho]

Hey, he gonna get it too. He gonna win it this year.

[Guest Analyst]

He gonna win VP and so probably, probably from now on based on the trajectory if I said that right so

[Joe]

back to back, didn't he Joe?

[Uncle Ocho]

MVPs?

[Joe]

Yeah, I think he did because I know one year he sandwiched a defensive player of the year with one of those MVPs.

[Uncle Ocho]

I don't know. I don't know if it was back to back. He may have had. He may have though.

[Joe]

Okay.

[Guest Analyst]

Hey so after this season

[Joe]

because I know he won. He won in 2015 when he 2015-16 when he was unanimous MVP.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah, I don't think he wanted back to Back though.

[Joe]

What you say?

[Guest Analyst]

I say after SJ SGA winning back to back this year, Wimy's probably gonna be back to back as well. Maybe Bake Baker the way he's going.

[Uncle Ocho]

And hey, Ocho, he might be on something if he. If we'll be at what, 23 a game now, I. I say that's probably gonna go up another two or three points.

[Joe]

And Nash, your ex teammate, wanted back to back. Joe, were you there when he went back to back?

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah, I was there the first year. I was gone in the second year. I only played one year with Nash.

[Joe]

But yeah, you look at. It's. I mean, it's.

[Uncle Ocho]

It's rare.

[Joe]

It doesn't happen often. It damn sure don't happen in the NFL, Ocho, you know that. Hell, I think Peyton might be. Don't. Maybe Jim Brown.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yes. Hey, man, Shay taking it personal, bro. I heard. I heard him. I heard him in the interview say, you know, it didn't sit well with him last postseason, you know, because even though they won it, but them going seven games with Indiana. Yeah, he said he didn't feel like. Huh.

[Joe]

And Nuggets.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah, yeah, he said he didn't feel like, you know, he felt he could have played better. I ain't gonna say he. He didn't feel like he was an mvp, but he felt like he could have played better. And that's what they playing like right now, man. They playing with an edge, they playing with attitude. And dude playing like he's determined, you know what I mean? Like he gonna show everybody who the best player. Now, I ain't gotta be out here advocating for myself, talking about I should be mvp. I ain't. I don't do all that. My game gonna do all the talking, partner.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah, right.

[Joe]

Cooper flag says rookie season has been really mentally taxing. Obviously it's been tough. You, like you said through high school, college, I mean, only lost four games last year. So there's been times this. Of this season where it's been really taxing on me just not having the success that I would have hoped for. And obviously we've had a lot of injuries and a lot of things happen throughout the year year, but it's obviously not been ideal. And I mean, I've had a grow. I've had growth along the way and I've had. And I've gotten better to learn on the fly. Definitely not the start I would have looked for. But think hopefully eventually I'll be able to look back and no, I was able to learn a Lot from this Joe Sport that you played, obviously, first round, number one pick overall, high expectation. And he's shown Flash that he was the right pick to be number one overall. But what advice if, you know, you could talk to Cooper Flag, what advice would you give him?

[Uncle Ocho]

Man, the advice I would give him, Uncle Ocho, is to continue to just work, bro, and enjoy the game. You know, I think once we. Once we become pros and you see the work that you have to put into, you start to lose the fun in the game, you know what I mean? Because it's a job now. You know it. And you know, you getting these. You know, you got bills and stuff now. So I think. I think guys have a tendency to, you know, lose sight of what really got you started into playing whatever game it was, football or basketball. You know what I mean? Like, you gotta continue to still love it. You can't look at it like a job. Obviously, the Dallas Mavericks expectation for Cooper Flag was to come in and play with Kyrie and A.D. well, both of them got hurt, and this is kind of what you was left with. So his learning curve had to be sped up a little bit. Yeah, and, yeah, you. You come from a. A place where you haven't lost a lot of games, man, when you get to the pros, it's a reality check. When you're a number one pick, when you're a top pick and you have to learn the game on the fly like that, you ain't really got nobody to learn from. You know what I mean?

[Guest Analyst]

Right.

[Uncle Ocho]

Take a toll on you, bro. It's a learning curve that you have to go through. But guess what, Joe, what's that?

[Joe]

At Duke, he trotted his ass out there on the court. He had the five best player he had to for his team, had the five best players on the court. When you trot your ass out there every night, you ain't got the five best players on your team. On the court,

[Guest Analyst]

you got the whole. You got to hold your own.

[Joe]

Now, how many times did he. With Duke, with all those five stars that they had, Jody, they took the court that they didn't have the five best starters on the court, or four out of the five.

[Uncle Ocho]

Right? Right.

[Joe]

And it's been like that for years. Yeah, you go to the NFL, hey, Ohio State or Alabama or whomever else they normally step on the field. Of the 22 starters, they probably got 15 of the best 22. Step your ass on the field in the NFL game or NBA game and see how that look to how to work out for you because you're gonna be a whole different level. Them grown ass men ain't no study hall.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Ain't no per diem. They pay for college tuitions, they paying mortgages.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah. Real talk.

[Joe]

A lot of them got mom. And sometimes that not only do they take care of their mom, they can't. They take care of mama Mom.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Joe]

It's a whole different ball game, bro. Them grown ass men out there.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah, grown, grown. And you a target. When you're an early pick, number one

[Joe]

pick, you come take food off my table.

[Uncle Ocho]

Boy, you a lottery. I mean, you. You a target. Meaning like every time, every chance somebody get to play against you, you gonna get the absolute best.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Guest Analyst]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe]

You know that, Ocho. It don't even matter. It damn. The number one db, the number two or three, like, man, I got Ocho, man, if I bat this ball down, I get me a pick.

[Guest Analyst]

Hey, hey, you know that, man. You know how that mentality works.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah.

[Guest Analyst]

Everybody can get it. Coaches and all.

[Joe]

It didn't matter where I was. We go to the Pro Bowl. I ain't let you get. You're not getting me because you first of all just call. We cross the water. Don't think you can guard me. Ain't nothing change. Ain't nothing change, cuz. What's gonna happen on your. You gonna get your ass back to the main lane and think you can cover me. No, you can't.

[Guest Analyst]

And thinking you can't.

[Joe]

Yeah. Just cause we came 10 hours.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Guess what? When we get your ass back to this mainland and I see you, you know what's gonna happen.

[Guest Analyst]

Same is the same bad.

[Joe]

Please, I'm telling you. But it's tough. I mean, losing. Look, I promise you, losing hurts more than winning. Feels good.

[Uncle Ocho]

You ain't lying, boy.

[Joe]

Listen to me again, Chat. Losing hurts more than winning. Feel good. You never feel the high even when winning the Super Bowl. And I was fortunate enough to be on three teams and my team won. But the losses that I had, I can only imagine losing the Super Bowl. Can you imagine the Super Bowl? Man, they got the thing lined up, Ocho. They like, hey, yo, yo. Think about how many people you done brought there. Oh, all them people. Y' all don't plan this big celebration. They don't got entertainment. They probably got Snoop Dogg, they got Lil Wayne, they got. I don't know. Hell, maybe they got the Goo Goo Dolls. I don't know who they got. But you planning a big celebration. How you supposed to, Ocho? How Joe how you supposed to go have a good time when we lost the Super Bowl?

[Uncle Ocho]

That's hard, bro.

[Joe]

I can't have no good time. Me neither. I ain't gonna even hold you. I'm not going, Mama Libby. Oh, yeah, y' all can go.

[Uncle Ocho]

I'm a sore loser like that too, man. I ain't gonna lie.

[Joe]

I'm a sore loser, Joe, but I'm a worse winner. Don't let me win. Don't you let me win. Don't you let me win.

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah.

[Joe]

The kid that. The kid. I obviously and very fortunate because the kids were there. They're like, dad, we want to go. We're gonna go. Okay, fine. I mean, I don't even know. We didn't handle. I think we had a dj, so it was fun for the kids to go, but they already know if daddy lose.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe]

They not talking. They not saying anything. They already know we. Look, I. I don't. I think I only lost one games. One game in my career that my kids actually come regular season, whatever what the case was.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah, yeah, they already know.

[Joe]

Kids. Quiet as church mice.

[Guest Analyst]

Ain't nothing. Ain't nothing to talk about. That super bowl lost with the. With the Patriots that year. We lost.

[Joe]

Oh, yeah, I forgot about that, Ocho.

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, but that, like, it was like.

[Joe]

It was like a death in the family with it, Ocho.

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah, I mean, I mean, it's kind of different because I didn't contribute like I normally used to. So, like.

[Uncle Ocho]

But to make it that far, though. But to make it that far, though, and lose.

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah, yeah. Hey, that. It. It was such a. How do I. How do I say this? By still remaining respectful. It was such a. A difference for me, you know, and. And understanding. Okay, this is why they consistently win all the time. Just watching the way they conduct themselves, watching the way they run things from top to bottom, you know, England. England at the time, it was. It was. It. It was. It was shocking in a sense. Okay, now I get it. Now I see what the form of is. The formula is in the way they approach things in, you know, day to day basis. It was. It was Joe's crazy Joe. It was a way. It was a whale oil machine from top to bottom with the person at the helm not playing. Nathaniel, he don't play, man. He would not play, man. And nobody has to explain it to you, Joe. It's like you walk in the building and something about. It's just something in the air.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah.

[Guest Analyst]

I don't know how to explain it, but Everybody and everybody said the same thing. You hear it, but you never understand it until you've been on the team.

[Uncle Ocho]

Oh, now everybody be on their best behavior.

[Guest Analyst]

They're very few that were able to conduct themselves how they want to. Gronk was one of them who had a personality. Oh, he did what he wants.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah.

[Guest Analyst]

And you know, when Aaron Hernandez was there, he's won because he was that boy. When them two was playing together, he kind of conducted himself and did what he want to. But they were so good because you know what? They know you knew what you was gonna get on the field with them too. So outside of that, everybody else mild mannered. No quiet you. So you see. Hey, Randy. Randy got out of hand and said something to the media.

[Joe]

Tell me. I know.

[Guest Analyst]

Hey, Joe. He was gone. He coming. He coming off a 23 TD. Season record breaking season

[Joe]

gone. No, they don't play that. They don't care how great you are.

[Guest Analyst]

No matter. Everybody expendable except 12.

[Joe]

I had Brady. I did a. I forget what I did, but I was doing something for the NFL and I asked Brady, I said, brady, would you get. I said, tom, would you give up two of those wins to win that super bowl that you lost to the first job? He said, absolutely. Absolutely. Ask him the question. I would love to ask him. Did you get as much enjoyment from winning as the pain that you got from losing? And I love to hear what he has to say because I've heard most people, most say it, that losing leave a stain was. Let me ask you a question. It was the losing that drove Jordan.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

It wasn't the win in the championships. It was getting his ass beat by the Celtics. It was getting his ass kicked by the Pistons. That's what drove him. Yeah, LeBron. It was getting his ass kicked. That's what drove him. Go back, look at Joker, look at Djokovic Federal kicking his ass. Nadal kicking his ass. That's what drove him. Not the winning. Sometimes I wonder, man, if. If. If Jordan had won early, would he have still had that hunger and desire? If Kobe hadn't airballed some of those shots early in his career, if he had a came in and been playing, would that have drove him? Probably not. Sometimes it takes failure. Yep. Sometimes it takes disappointment in order for you to achieve the ultimate success. That's what. Listen to Jordan talk and listen. Tell him what fueling. I got tired of losing.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

I got tired of losing to Boston. I got tired of losing to the Pistons. Every time I come up to the Pistons, I Get beat. I come up against Boston, I get beat. Said, enough of this. I need to get bigger. I need to get stronger.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah, man, didn't even take. Had no off season. Went right into training next day. Y' all ain't never heard nothing like that after the last game, playoff, you done lost. And you tell your trainer, man, I see you in the morning.

[Guest Analyst]

Hey, I'm right back in the lab.

[Joe]

Oh, no. Probably if I'd have had some money and I like to travel, I'd went somewhere on the island by my lonesome.

[Uncle Ocho]

That's what I'm saying. After that season, boy, you need to decompress a little bit.

[Joe]

Yes.

[Uncle Ocho]

And man, right back at it.

[Joe]

But once. Once the season was over, I tell my homeboy, I said, look here, man, y' all got a month to come see me. I'm gonna lock back in.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Once I lock back in that four to six weeks, JoJo, when I lock back in, it's around business, right? Ain't no more hanging out. Man, I hate. I've always. I've always been a sore loser.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah, but that's what. That's what. That's why you work hard, though.

[Joe]

Yo, we be playing basketball, man. My brother beat me. I take the basketball and throw the ball in the hog pen. My grade. He tell Granny that boy threw the basketball in the hog pin. Boy, my girl might come over there. Hey, man, that joke. Hey, that joker beat me. We playing put back. The way you play put back. O is football. So I can throw it, I can put it, I can catch it. So, right, if you throw it over my head, I gotta throw the ball. Put the ball to kick the ball for wherever it land. If I catch it, I get to take five step forward. Man, I was winning. And I don't know, man, that joker best rider, he must have had a punt. He might have put it up all 70 yards, man. Hey, I went straight to the house and ran to the house and got the knife and bust. I don't care what he say. Somebody Ray guy putting that ball. He ain't punted. I flat that ball, boy. My grandma wi. Man, I couldn't take it. Boy, you can't. You ain't gonna win them all. You can't win all the time.

[Uncle Ocho]

Hey, but that losing make you work harder, though.

[Joe]

What?

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah, it had you right back in the lab. I'm talking about really trying to get. Get somewhere.

[Joe]

But the thing is, though, Joe, I couldn't understand. I just looked at him. That's my brother. I should be able to Beat him. I didn't look that. He was three years older. He was bigger. He was stronger. That ain't crossed my mind. Cause I'm doing everything he doing. He go to work in the fields. I go to work. Papa sent him in there to catch a hog. I go. I go. You know, he could catch. I just have to hold it by one leg. I got it by one leg. He can hold all my bow line legs. So I think I'm doing what he doing.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Why can't I beat this joker? Man, that thing drove me, man. That thing drove me so crazy, man.

[Uncle Ocho]

I was like, shh.

[Joe]

So I. I. Cooper, pick your head up, bro. Man, all the greats have had to go through what you going through. All of them.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Now, a lot of them didn't win to the level. I mean, hell, Bird didn't lose a single game. He lost one game that year. He lost the Magic in the finals in the NCAA tournament.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Joe]

That really. That really put him on. That put the march, man. Is it. That's what put it on the map. Map.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah.

[Guest Analyst]

On the map, that.

[Joe]

Because guess what you had, you know, in the 70s, a couple of years earlier, you had roots come out, and then you had.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Guest Analyst]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe]

You already know where your allegiances were.

[Uncle Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

If you was. If you. With this. Use with that.

[Uncle Ocho]

That use with this Y. Yep.

[Joe]

No way around it. And, Cooper, pick your head up, bro. You got a promising future ahead of you, bro. Oh, Joe. Joe. There's a sense that Steve Kerr will return to coach the warriors for one more season, which would be his last dance with the franchise, per Tim Carol Kawakami. Joe. Well, I don't. Go ahead. I want to hear what you got to say about this one, Joe.

[Uncle Ocho]

I think, obviously, depending on the health of the players, I think he probably. I don't know, he might even shoot his own documentary. Uncle Ocho, making this his last. You know what I mean?

[Joe]

And then they.

[Uncle Ocho]

Right. They may even be trying to make a big splash this summer, too. You know what I mean? I. I think. I think it's so many different ways that I can see the warriors going at this. For him to announce that is he. He definitely got some up his sleeve. What you got?

[Joe]

I just like. Unless there's some major moves, Joe, they not winning no championship with this team. Yeah. I mean, and you probably gonna need two. But what assets do they have to give up?

[Guest Analyst]

You can't let. You can't let Steph.

[Joe]

No, Steph ain't going nowhere. Steph ain't going nowhere, man.

[Uncle Ocho]

You going. You. You guys. You guys, you're gonna have to figure something out. What are they here right now? They ain't even to play in, are they?

[Joe]

No.

[Guest Analyst]

Damn.

[Joe]

Like Jim Morrison. Playoffs. Playoffs.

[Guest Analyst]

They better hope they can win, right? Steph, what's wrong?

[Uncle Ocho]

Oh, they even play in nine. What, did Steph hurt a hamstring again?

[Joe]

Dealing with a knee, isn't he.

[Uncle Ocho]

He play. He must ain't coming back. He been out for a minute.

[Joe]

I think they ramping it up. I think he's gonna come back next week.

[Guest Analyst]

I don't know what for. You might well just relay. He might well just relax. Might as well get relaxing and healthy. I mean, you're not.

[Joe]

You're not playing back.

[Uncle Ocho]

Well, they.

[Joe]

They.

[Uncle Ocho]

They might get. They might get that 7, 8 spot, but, boy, you gonna. Hey, you got to see OKC or San Antonio, I advise you just lose.

[Joe]

Not beating either one of them and go.

[Uncle Ocho]

Go into the.

[Joe]

They're not beating the Lakers. They not beating the Nuggets. No, no. I just don't see it. And I get it. Hey, look, it was a great run, Steve, but if you coming back, they think you're gonna go out or, you know, be like Phil Jackson, win the championship and then dip.

[Uncle Ocho]

They bringing in some. Trust me, they ain't coming back with just that team trying to figure out

[Joe]

what they gonna give up, Joe.

[Uncle Ocho]

I don't know.

[Joe]

The Golden Gate Bridge, Alcatraz, what the hell? Because they do got.

[Uncle Ocho]

They do got a lot of guys hurt. They got some guys hurt.

[Joe]

Joe, Joe. Let's just say, for the sake, really, if you look at it, who did it? Jimmy Butler coming off an acl. Other than Steph, what assets do people really want? And that's good, that. That you can lure, say, okay, I'm gonna give you X, Y and Z. And you let me get Giannis or you let me get some other top flight player.

[Uncle Ocho]

Hey, man, listen, I don't know, but I know one thing. They can't come back with the same. With the same team. Like, you know, it's. You know, we talk about the Giannis thing, but I don't know what they had that Milwaukee would be like, oh, yeah, we'll take that. I. I don't. I don't know, but what about.

[Joe]

What about Braun? What about Braun going to Golden State?

[Guest Analyst]

Crazy.

[Joe]

You gotta give up nuts. Just gotta pay it.

[Uncle Ocho]

They still. I can still. I can see him. I can see him playing with stuff, but I don't know, man, Olympics, the man building Ain't he building a 30 million dollar house out there in LA?

[Joe]

Yeah, but I mean, it seemed like everybody thinking that he going to Cleveland. Hey, you can go somewhere for a year in the two and then. And live happily ever after.

[Guest Analyst]

Hey, didn't he build one out there in. In Cleveland too?

[Joe]

Yeah, he still got his place in Akron. Yeah, I mean, he.

[Uncle Ocho]

I thought he built a bit.

[Joe]

He been. Had that one, though.

[Uncle Ocho]

Oh, yeah.

[Guest Analyst]

Okay, okay, okay. Yeah. You build something like that in goddamn la? Well, that's. That, that's home.

[Joe]

Yeah. Yeah. Got that big. He brought. Actually he brought a place and. And tore the house down. Because that's what you. I mean, if you want something, I mean, you got to spend 10, 20, 30 million dollars and tear it down now because basically you just want the land.

[Uncle Ocho]

Damn right.

[Joe]

That's what you want. You want to do what you want there. So that's what people do. And I mean in Brentwood, you want to stay in Brentwood or you know, you want to go to Malibu and stuff, you gotta, you know, people got shacks that's worth, you know, somebody got. Might have 2, 000 square foot hops.

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah.

[Joe]

But it's gonna cost you 25, $30 million to get them up off of it. Cause they own an acre, two acres of land. It.

[Uncle Ocho]

Damn.

[Joe]

Yeah. So that's where they are with that. But I don't, I, I don't look and say it. I mean, look, Golden State had a great run. They won four championships in six seasons. I believe they would have won another one had Kevin Durant an Achilles. Not blowout Toronto. I don't care what anybody says. Toronto not beating Golden State, not that year. At cvs, it matters that we're not

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[Joe]

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[Joe]

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[Joe]

So Visit [e-mail] or just come by our store. We can't wait to meet you. Store hours vary by location. On this episode of Plant Killers, we'll explore one nation's most notorious fruit and vegetable killer. Bad dirt. What makes bad dirt so bad? The answer. The ingredients. But fear not, true crime enthusiasts, this story has a happy ending. Miracle Gro Organic raised bed and garden soil. It's made with quality organic ingredients from upcycled green waste like compost and aged bark. Unlike the other guys who can't say the same. Looks like bad dirt's murdering days are over, thanks to Miracle Gro. Join us next time on Plant Killers.

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[Joe]

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[Joe]

Yep, you needed that.

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