Nightcap - Hour 1: Unc, Ocho, Iso Joe, and Gary Payton react to the Pacers going up 2-1 over the Thunder in the NBA Finals

Summary

Club Shay Shay Podcast: Nightcap - Hour 1 Episode Summary

Podcast Information:

• Title: Club Shay Shay
• Host/Author: iHeartPodcasts and Shay Shay Media
• Episode: Nightcap - Hour 1: Unc, Ocho, Iso Joe, and Gary Payton react to the Pacers going up 2-1 over the Thunder in the NBA Finals
• Release Date: June 12, 2025
• Description: NFL legend Shannon Sharpe sits down with the biggest athletes, celebrities, and influencers to discuss their accomplishments, challenges, and everything in-between.

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1. Introduction to the Episode (02:17 - 03:04)

Shannon Sharpe kicks off the episode by welcoming listeners and introducing the lineup for the discussion:

• Liberty City's Own Bingo Ring of Fame Honoree, Pro Bowler All-Pro, Chad Ocho (Cinco Jones)
• Arkansas, Little Rock Native, University of Arkansas Alumnus, NBA Veteran, Joe Johnson
• Special Guest: Gary Payton (GP), 75th Anniversary Team, NBA Champion, Defensive Player of the Year, Olympic Gold Medalist

Shannon Sharpe:
"Thank you guys for joining us for another episode of Nightcap. I am your favorite uncle, Shannon Sharpe."
Timestamp: [02:34]

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2. Game Recap and Initial Reactions (03:04 - 05:46)

Shannon Sharpe provides a brief recap of the pivotal NBA Finals Game 3 where the Indiana Pacers secured a 2-1 series lead over the Oklahoma City Thunder with a score of 116-107.

Key Highlights:

• Pacers' Performance:
  • Benedict Mathen achieved a career-high 27 points
  • The Pacers' bench outperformed Oklahoma City's reserves, contributing significantly to the win
• Thunder's Challenges:
  • Shay (Shay Antwee) struggled with free throws, making only 9 of 20
  • Despite Shay's inefficiency, three Thunder players scored over 20 points each

Shannon Sharpe:
"The Pacers beat the Thunder. The Pacers win the first finals game in Indy in 25 years."
Timestamp: [03:06]

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3. Detailed Analysis of the Game (05:46 - 16:12)

The hosts delve deep into the factors that led to the Pacers' victory and the Thunder's shortcomings.

Key Discussion Points:

• Pacers' Defensive Intensity:

  • Emphasis on disrupting Thunder's offensive flow
  • Effective trapping and limiting Shay's one-on-one opportunities

• Thunder's Turnovers:

  • Thunder committed 14 turnovers, which the Pacers capitalized on
  • Turnovers led to rapid scoring by the Pacers, shifting the game's momentum

• Benedict Mathen's Impact:

  • Mathen's performance was crucial, with his 27 points setting him apart in the Finals history
  • Colin Cowherd praises Mathen:
    "He was a young boy at 27. 27 points."
    Timestamp: [13:34]

• Shay's Struggles:

  • Shay's inefficiency from the free-throw line
  • Pacers' defensive strategies effectively neutralized Shay's offensive threats

Notable Quotes:

• Joe Johnson:
  "They had that intensity that they needed, you know, especially from the bench."
  Timestamp: [05:47]

• Shannon Sharpe:
  "Shay is not an own ball defender. Their own ball defenders are the wing players."
  Timestamp: [41:48]

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4. Coaching Strategies and Lineup Decisions (16:12 - 43:58)

The discussion shifts to the strategic decisions made by the Thunder's coach, Rick Carlisle, and their impact on the series.

Key Points:

• Lineup Adjustments:

  • Carlisle's decision to sub out key players like Hardenstein in favor of smaller lineups
  • The effectiveness of maintaining a consistent starting lineup versus making mid-series adjustments

• Comparison to Other Teams:

  • Shannon Sharpe draws parallels with the Golden State Warriors' handling of Steph Curry
    Timestamp: [10:00]
    *"They trapped his ass, Joe. They got turnovers off that."

• Defensive Focus:

  • Importance of aggressive defense in limiting opponent's star players
  • Highlighting Indiana's bench contributions in maintaining high energy and defensive pressure

Notable Quotes:

• Tom Brokaw:
  "When you turn the ball over, you score the basketball. That takes a lot of oomph off of you."
  Timestamp: [07:20]

• Colin Cowherd:
  "They didn’t wait until they were down to decide to kick into gear defensively."
  Timestamp: [12:32]

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5. Player Comparisons and Debates (43:58 - 59:22)

A lively segment ensues where the hosts debate the comparison of current players to NBA legends like Kobe Bryant and LeBron James.

Key Discussions:

• Shay vs. Kobe Bryant:

  • Shannon Sharpe argues against comparing Shay to Kobe, emphasizing Shay's unique playing style
    Timestamp: [54:28]
    *"I don't see Kobe. I don't think he ever will be Kobe."

• Kevin Durant's Trajectory:

  • Discussion on KD's performance post-Golden State and his impact on his teams
  • Shannon Sharpe criticizes the notion that KD's success solely depends on his presence
    Timestamp: [62:03]

• LeBron James vs. Magic Johnson:

  • Comparisons highlighting their all-around play and passing skills
    Timestamp: [58:01]

Notable Quotes:

• Colin Cowherd:
  "SGA has his own style. Putting that pressure on SGA, you shouldn't do that because Kobe is an iconic figure."
  Timestamp: [59:50]

• Shannon Sharpe:
  "Don't compare anybody else’s game to somebody you putting that man's name on."
  Timestamp: [56:09]

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6. Series Outlook and Final Thoughts (59:22 - 76:54)

As the episode nears its conclusion, the hosts share their predictions and final analyses for the remaining games in the Finals series.

Key Points:

• Prediction for Thunder:

  • Colin Cowherd remains optimistic about Thunder's chances to rebound in Game 4
    Timestamp: [36:15]
    "We are already up and I told y'all before the series started that the Pacer was probably going to win this series."

• Pacers' Momentum:

  • Emphasis on Indiana's ability to maintain and extend their lead through aggressive play and depth
  • Joe Johnson highlights the importance of Pacers' defensive strategies
    Timestamp: [42:41]
    "They’re doing an unbelievable job, trying to impose their will."

• Final Predictions:

  • A lighthearted bet is placed between Colin Cowherd and Tom Brokaw on the outcome of future games, showcasing camaraderie and the competitive spirit among the hosts
    Timestamp: [50:10]

Notable Quotes:

• Tom Brokaw:
  "They are getting out play. We can't give them no excuse."
  Timestamp: [41:02]

• Joe Johnson:
  "They have to come back and be able to sustain."
  Timestamp: [09:35]

---

7. Closing Remarks and Final Banter (76:54 - End)

The hosts wrap up the episode with additional commentary, promotional mentions are subtly included, and playful interactions among the hosts conclude the discussion.

Shannon Sharpe:
"Hey, GP, thanks for joining us tonight, breaking the game down. Maybe come back if we get a Game 7."
Timestamp: [74:12]

Tom Brokaw:
"You know, man, y'all gotta understand…"
Continuing with light-hearted banter and acknowledgments.

Colin Cowherd and Joe Johnson engage in humorous exchanges about their previous bets and financial dealings, adding a personal touch to the episode's conclusion.

---

Conclusion

This episode of Club Shay Shay's Nightcap provides an in-depth analysis of the NBA Finals Game 3, highlighting the strategic prowess of the Indiana Pacers and the challenges faced by the Oklahoma City Thunder. Through expert insights from seasoned athletes and commentators like Gary Payton, Joe Johnson, and Colin Cowherd, listeners gain a comprehensive understanding of the game's dynamics, player performances, and coaching decisions. The lively debates on player comparisons and future predictions add an engaging layer, making it a valuable listen for fans seeking detailed postseason discussions.

Notable Quotes Recap:

• Shannon Sharpe:
  "Shay is not an own ball defender. Their own ball defenders are the wing players." [41:48]
• Tom Brokaw:
  "When you turn the ball over, you score the basketball. That takes a lot of oomph off of you." [07:20]
• Colin Cowherd:
  "They didn’t wait until they were down to decide to kick into gear defensively." [12:32]

---

Note: Timestamps are approximate and based on the provided transcript sections.

Transcript

[Shannon Sharpe]

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[Tom Brokaw]

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[Shannon Sharpe]

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[Lester Holt]

We're NBC News.

[Tom Brokaw]

I'm Tom Brokaw.

[Lester Holt]

You hope to see you back.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I'm Lester Holt.

[Shannon Sharpe]

It's carried forward. Tom Yamats is there for us. Firefighters are still working around the clock. As the world changes, we look for what endures.

[Colin Cowherd]

We are coming on the air with.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Breaking news Right now we look for a constant and from one era to the next, Trust is the anchor for NBC Nightly News. I'm Tom Yamas. A new chapter begins. NBC Nightly News with Tom Yamas evenings on NBC.

[Lester Holt]

Hi, it's Colin from the Colin Coward podcast. I've been around long enough to know quality when I see it, or in this case, when I taste it. Tito's Handmade vodka. Good stuff. No flash, no gimmicks. Smooth, clean, tasting, made the right way. Tito's made in Austin, Texas. Real attention to detail. I like to keep it simple. Tito's soda, one lime, lot of ice. Refreshing, easy. Summer, winter, spring. Totally versatile. Always works. Listen, baseball season's here. The perfect time to kick back with some Tito's. It's what I pour. You should too. Distilled and bottled by Fifth Generation Inc. Austin, Texas. 40% alcohol by volume. Savor responsibly.

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[Tom Brokaw]

The Vol.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Hello, ladies and gentlemen. We got us a series. We got us A series. Indiana 116. OkC 107. 2 1. Lead with another game in Indy. Can they possibly go up? 3 1. Thank you guys for joining us for Another episode of Nightcap. I am your favorite uncle, Shannon Sharp. My partner and co host, Liberty City's own bingo ring of fame honoree, Pro Bowler All Pro wearing his ISO Joe cutoff hoodie. That's Chad Ocho, Cinco Jones. Hold on, hold on.

[Colin Cowherd]

Not just the hoodie.

[Tom Brokaw]

I got the shorts on too.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Oh, you got the hood. Oh, you got the hoochie. Daddy's on. Yeah, he out there looking like John Black. And Ro, the third member of our team. Y' all know him, Arkansas, Little Rock, Arkansas native, University of Arkansas alum, played a number of years, at least 15 years in the NBA. That's ISO Joe, Joe Johnson. And joining us, special guest to break down this game, y' all know him, 75th anniversary team, NBA champion defensive player of the year, Olympic gold medal winning. That's GP the club Gary Payton. GP what it do?

[Tom Brokaw]

What's happening? What's happening man?

[Shannon Sharpe]

Good. Thanks for joining us bro. Please make sure you hit that subscribe button. Please make sure you hit the like button. And guys, go subscribe to the Nightcap podcast feed wherever you you get your podcast from. We want to thank each and every one of you that have watched us, that has listened to us, that have downloaded our things and spread the word. Catch Nightcap with Uncan Ocho. We greatly, greatly appreciate your support and we hopefully we get your continued support. Please make sure you check out Shay by La Portier. We have it in stock now. If you can't find it in a city or state near you, you can best believe we are coming to a city or a state near you. But in the meantime, Order it Online is the best tasting premium BSOP cognac on the market. Order it online. You will not be disappointed. Please drink responsibly and stay safe. Check out my media company page on all of its platforms. Shay Shay Media and my clothing company, 84. With 84 being spelled out, the link is pinned in the chat. Supplies are limited and once they're gone, they are gone. So please grab yours while supplies last. The Pacers. The Pacers beat the Thunder. The pacers win the first finals game in Indy in 25 years. Take a 21 lead with another game in Indy, 116 to 107. They did a better job of limiting Shay at the free throw line. He only got to the line six times, nine of 20 from the floor. They did a great job on him. But still The Thunder had three guys in double with 20 or more points. But it was the bench of the Indiana Pacers that won this game. Benedict Mathren had his best game, 27 points, a career high.

[Tom Brokaw]

2 of 3 from the three point.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Line, 7 of 8 from the free throw line. TJ McConnell came in and did what TJ McConnell normally does. And Obi Toppin was flying high. That put back dump really energized the crowd. Joe, we're gonna start to you and then we're gonna pass it off to gp. How did the Pacers win this game?

[Tom Brokaw]

Man, Ocho.

[Joe Johnson]

Gp they had that intensity that they needed, you know, especially from the bench. I thought OKC, I played him in that first quarter. But when they made them subs, Matheran, TJ McCollum, they came in, rose the energy up to another level, took it to another level. And you look at Matheran, the way he played, man, just being aggressive offensively, making plays, just being disruptive defensive. Tj, you know, I don't know how many steals he got that led to points. And OKC was just so careless with the basketball. It was uncharacteristic of them tonight. But we got to give, we got to give Indiana credit, man. They've been doing it all postseason, like we continue to say, and we continue to count them out, they continue to keep fighting and tonight they pretty much, you know, had control of this basketball pretty much throughout the entire game.

[Shannon Sharpe]

TJ McComb had five steals tonight. GP, you watch, you watch this game in its entirety in Indiana. The team, they go on the road and every series they won game one, they lost game two in okc. It was really a blowout. But they came, come home, normally come home, they normally lose game three. But tonight was different. They got off to a slow start in the first quarter. They pick it up, get 40 points, they got 40 points against the best defensive team in basketball in the second quarter and then have a little lull in the third quarter. They pick it right back up in the fourth and go get 32. So those combined quarters, the second and the fourth, they get 72 points. What were they able to do tonight that caused, that caused OKC so much trouble in this ballgame?

[Tom Brokaw]

Well, Shannon, what I really think is, is that what Joe said was that they picked up their intensity of on defense. I think they were into a lot of players a lot more. I think they were into Shay a lot more. Then Shay tried to take, take it onto his hands and become one of them players where he wanted to prove that he can go instead of passing the basketball and getting it around and getting other players involved. So they picked up the defense and they did a great Job I think to me where they lose basketball games, OKC is when they get there out of their means. When they turn the ball over, when they turn the basketball over, they're not okc. And then that takes away from their defense because their lows get down. And then what Indiana did was when they turned the ball over, they scored, they scored the basketball. When people turn the ball over and you score, that takes a lot of oomph off of you. Then what they did was in the third quarter, they try to neutralize it. They go up what, five at the end of the third. But then what do the subs come and do for Indiana? They come and pick that energy back up. They pick the energy back up off of turnovers and then it takes away from your game. When you turn the basketball over and you score, you can say I think off a turnover, off of turnovers. What I think they outscored him by 20. I think Indiana outscored him by almost 20 points and that hurt them. And then at the end of the game, if you don't make free throws to get back in the game, if they make them free throws, this game becomes closer. And then when the Indiana comes down and put pressure on them to score the basketball, but if you don't score, if you don't hit these free throws, what happens? They come down there, be comfortable, they still up eight or nine points and you lose the basketball game. And that's what happened. But you got to give a credit to Indiana for coming off the bench with their high energy and they take the gang to them. They're at home, they took the gang to him. And I don't know how Oklahoma's going to come back, but I think they're going to come back strong because they know that they're going to have to match their intensity because Indiana is not going to come in here and just lay down right?

[Shannon Sharpe]

And you look at it. We talked about something the other night, guys. We said Shay, I said, man, when he come out that picket double his ass, trap him. You see what they did tonight? They trapped his ass, Joe. They got turnovers off that. They tied him up, got jump balls. You gotta try something. You cannot let him play one on one. He's as good a one on one player as they have in the NBA. And he puts that shoulder into him and gets separation. Go ahead gp who do you think?

[Tom Brokaw]

Who, who, who, who, what team? Joe and you two and Ocho, when they don't win, when they start player and people do that to them all the time. What team is that? The Golden State warriors when they did Steph Curry. Yes. They are not an effective basketball team. And I think a lot of teams got to understand one on one basketball players when they come off the pick and roll, get the ball out of their hand and make people who don't know what they do. That is not normal of doing that and handling the basketball and making big time plays. Make them big time. Make them make big time plays. Yeah. And Oklahoma only has one guy can do that besides Shay and that's William. He's the only other basketball player that can do it. And what do they do? They let him score all the points and they take Shay out and he go nine for 20 and they lose the basketball game off of turnovers. But I still think Oklahoma should be very really confident because you're turning the ball over that many times, it's still in a basketball game to win it. Your confidence gotta be high.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Ocho, we looked at OKC, what they did to Indiana the first game. They turned them over 25 times. They lost the game. Indiana found a way to get close in the fourth and they won it down the stretch. We watched the second game, I think they turned them over 17, 18 times and they won the ball game going away. This game they only created 14 turnovers. Indiana did a better job of taking care of the basketball now. And Halberton, he didn't have his best game handling the ball. Cuz Halberton doesn't normally turn the ball over. He had two or three really careless, careless turnovers like they picked him like at, at. At half court, which he normally doesn't do. What do you think OKC needs to do to make sure they don't go down 3:1 going back to OKC? Because look, they had three guys with 20 plus points. Again Shay was not as efficient this game as he was the second game. Remember he was like what? 11 of 21. The second game he had 34. The first game he was really inefficient, had 38. But you had Chad Holgren 6 of 15. Inefficient. They only shot. They shot the ball 47, 47% for the floor. They had 20 points from Chad, they got 26 from Jalen Williams, they got 24 from Shea. But their bench didn't give up anything. Remember Joe Ocho? GP the last game, their bench. Remember Wallace, Remember Caruso, what they gave him off the bench? Ties was flipped. You got 27, you got 49 points from Indiana's bench. Ocho, what do you see what did you like about what you saw from Indiana and what you didn't like from okc?

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, listen, honestly, you know, I picked the pace to win the series, so I like what I saw from okc.

[Shannon Sharpe]

You like everything you saw?

[Colin Cowherd]

I like everything I saw from them. Listen, the Pacers just played to me. To me from. Based on my eyes and my little bit of knowledge of basketball that I've learned to date, the Pacers tonight played a more complete game of the finals. They didn't wait until they was down. They didn't wait until they was down to. To decide to kick in gear defensively, what they did defensively, getting the ball out of Shay's hands, coming off those picks, coming off those roles and forcing other people to make plays, I think that was key. Defensively, what they were able to do. The goddamn bench was really the stars. It wasn't Halliburton, it wasn't Siakam. It wasn't them hard. It was what them boy did off the bench. They got damn T.J. mcConnell and young brother. I ain't heard nobody named Benedict boy since 1968.

[Tom Brokaw]

You hear me?

[Colin Cowherd]

I ain't. I ain't gonna tell you on that, but Benedict.

[Tom Brokaw]

Excuse me.

[Colin Cowherd]

Excuse me if I put your last name. Benedict. Ma. Did I say that right?

[Shannon Sharpe]

Ma.

[Colin Cowherd]

Ma. Ma. Okay, Math for a young boy at 27. 27.

[Shannon Sharpe]

What?

[Colin Cowherd]

He was 27.

[Shannon Sharpe]

P. Four rebounds, one assist a block.

[Colin Cowherd]

Listen.

[Tom Brokaw]

Efficient.

[Colin Cowherd]

He was efficient. He was a game score higher. He had zero fear, Unc. He had zero fear. Gp. Yeah, but listen, this wasn't. This wasn't just like a heat check shooting, right. This was playoff poise.

[Shannon Sharpe]

I like they letting them play, too. But you know what? I've noticed something about. I've noticed something about him.

[Colin Cowherd]

I have a question.

[Shannon Sharpe]

When he doesn't get in foul trouble early.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[Shannon Sharpe]

You notice if when he gets in foul trouble early, he. It takes some of his aggressiveness away from him. He's not the same player. Gp, Joe and Ocho, he's not the same tonight. He stayed out of foul trouble. He stayed aggressive from the moment Carlisle put him in the game. He was aggressive for the entirety of the game.

[Joe Johnson]

Yeah, I agree. Hey, and when you look at Haliburg, look how he started the game. I know they didn't win the first quarter, but he was ultra aggressive in that first quarter. He was ultra aggressive. We talk about his aggressiveness to start the game. He wasn't passing. He was looking for a shot. He was getting to the cup. He was getting in the paint cause and havoc and being disruptive in OKC's defense and making plays and GP, you notice when you got a team shooting 51% from the field, hell it's going.

[Shannon Sharpe]

To be hard to beat that every time.

[Joe Johnson]

It's like okc, it's like they defense has kind of went into a lapse to where they can't get stops. It's hard for them to get stops. So it's hard for them to get out and get points. So if you playing in this high scoring game like this, 116 points for the Pacers, this the pace they want. They wanted high scoring like this.

[Tom Brokaw]

But you know what the problem is Joe? Is that all of their players are aggressive. That's the problem. It's not just one guy, two, three guys aggressive. It's coming out being aggressive. And against a great defensive team. What do you have to do to a great defensive team? Attack them attack every time and all of them are attacking and then on the other end they're being aggressive more and they don't hear a lot of them getting three and four fives in the heel sub and then Carlisle sub bring in somebody else and everybody's comfortable. When you get a team that's comfortable and that can match you and this Indiana team can match Oklahoma, they are not going to beat them. They're not going to beat them. If you let them be comfortable and they don't turn the ball over and they make you turn the ball over and get you out of your game. They're not going to beat them, especially at home. They're not going to beat an Indiana team that can be more aggressive and have the energy coming in and making shots and doing things. They're not going to beat them.

[Shannon Sharpe]

And you look, you look at it, they had, I mean the guy the Rick Carlisle is doing a great job with. Minutes Siakam 32 minutes, Nism 22 minutes, Turner 30 minutes Nemhard 33 minutes, Halliburton 36 minutes, Obi Toppin 28 minutes. McConnell, 15 minutes Ma 22 minutes, Shepherd 18 minutes. You see, hey, give me everything you got while you out there. And when you get tired, put your hands up and I'll put somebody else in the game. And yeah, and a no let up, no let up. And like you said, they're being aggressive. They know it's become very difficult. Guys, we know OKC has a great defense. You got to stay out of half court because if you let those guys, because they got tremendous wing defenders, everybody is scrapping Everybody got hands. You look at Wallace, you look at Dort, you look at Caruso, Isaiah, Joe Wiggins, all those guys can sit in the chair and slide multiple times. So they're doing a great job trying to get points in transition so they can't set up. I love what I saw. Look, Indiana, everybody had to wrote them off. I mean, they were the, they were like one of the biggest favorites. OKC were to win the finals that we've had in a very, very long time.

[Tom Brokaw]

Yes.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Indiana said, guess what? We weren't favored against Milwaukee, we weren't favored against Cleveland, we weren't favored against the Knicks. So we weren't. So we're not going to be favored. So guess what? We're going to have one of the. If they were to win this, this would be one of the most improbable runs. And when you figure they're doing it without a superstar player. When was the last time somebody won a finals without a superstar player?

[Joe Johnson]

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

[Colin Cowherd]

Hold on, hold on.

[Tom Brokaw]

They.

[Colin Cowherd]

They're saying. You're saying they don't have a superstar player, but they don't player that's playing like a superstar and is having a historic playoff run.

[Shannon Sharpe]

No, no. Making shots doesn't make you a superstar. OO Hallberg. Hallberg is not a superstar.

[Tom Brokaw]

Oo I'm agree with Uncle Nat. He. He's not a superstar. He's a player. He's a good basketball player, but he's not a superstar. You might be right, Ocho. He's playing like a superstar right now. He's playing like that right now. He's stepping up to the game because I think in my mind he's an all around complete point guard. Yes, sir. Everything happen, he thinks, get his players into it first and then he does everything and then he'll score, you know, when he has to, you know. But he's not that player. To four. I'm not gonna say go get him and put him on a team and then I think I can get 40 from him every night. That's not gonna happen. But he is playing like a superstar right now. I will give you that, Ocho. Not superstar. But he's playing like that, right?

[Shannon Sharpe]

Go ahead.

[Colin Cowherd]

Think about it. We had that conversation before, not long ago, remember? Remember we talked about superstar, star. What's the first thing I say?

[Shannon Sharpe]

Unk.

[Colin Cowherd]

Listen, he's a star. He's a star. But. But the way he's playing in this playoffs coming up in clutch moments for the Pacers is like he's a goddamn Superstar. And just based on what I've seen right now, you know, to piggyback off what GP saying, he just started playing like a superstar in the most opportune moments for the Pacers. And when they win these series, like I told y' all, what's gonna happen? I'm just gonna sneak that in there. Joe, you owe me a hundred dollars, too. Listen, listen. Money out of sight, calls the fight. I don't want to have. Listen, hey, hey, GP Listen. So listen, the last series, no, obviously the Knicks didn't win, so I was upset. So Joe and I, we got a little bet. So depending on each game. We got a hundred dollar bet on each game.

[Tom Brokaw]

Yeah, so. And you don't want to. So you have 200 and Joe won one. So, yeah, you up a hundred. The math come right. The math come right. Joe Cash Happy Bank.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Halle. Playoff heroics have earned him a new nickname. In the basketball reference. His name now is GP Ocho. And Joe Tyrese the moment. Halliburton the moment. I like it.

[Tom Brokaw]

I like it. I like it. He plays in the moment. He'll get what he has to in the moment. He'll make a big shot at that moment. He might not be playing well at all times, but when the omen come and the lights shine on him, he read, he always performs. So I will give him that, that, that, that nickname, that, that.

[Shannon Sharpe]

I. I like it. I like what Joe. I like what you said that he would. He know. He went to the store and he was just. Hey, he just went. Didn't do nothing. N. Try on some ish pair of jeans. I'mma try on a shirt. Hey, hey, how about them shoes? I'mma try on something tonight. He came out. He wasn't looking to just pass the ball away.

[Colin Cowherd]

No.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Hey, Seaham, you do it. Hey, hey. Miles Turner. Hey, Nemhardt. No, no, you. You the guy. And you see when he's aggressive, when he's in the 20s and he has 11 assists. So now he's giving you his 20. Now you got 11 assists. You know, a couple of those gonna have to be off of threes. So now he's getting everybody involved and he's involved. They can definitely win this series if he's going to play like that. But we shouldn't have to have like, damn, Halle, come on, bro. Why we got to tell you every other game? You need to be aggressive. That should be understood. The game is so much easier for you guys when you do what you're. And I understand GP He's a pass first point guard. He's not. First of all, he's a true point guard. We got a lot of guys masquerading. They're masquerading as points, but they're really two guards. Russ, Martin, Luca, those are really two masquerading points.

[Tom Brokaw]

In the NBA. Tell me, what had. What did all the point guards play in this NBA right now? The point guards, what did they play in College? The two guard.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Two? Yes.

[Tom Brokaw]

Yeah. 32 or one. And that's why I hate when people come to my area and talk about, oh, he's one of the greatest point guardians. No, you not.

[Shannon Sharpe]

He's a dude masquerading at the point.

[Tom Brokaw]

Get out of my lane, man. When you. When I was playing, man, we was true point guards, man. You understand me? These are twos. I watched them in college play the two. They was converted to a one. You know what I'm saying? He is true. It's only two point guards in the NBA right now, and that's Chris, Paul and him. They're a true point guards that look to pass the ball and get people better and then they come and do. But Alan Bird, he does. He does everything. He rebounds the basketball.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yeah.

[Tom Brokaw]

He makes assists, and then he scores when he has to. You know what I'm saying? And that. That's a point guard to me.

[Shannon Sharpe]

He was a rebound short of a triple double. He was a. Hold on, Joe. He was a rebound short of a triple double. 22 points, 11 assists, nine rebounds. He was not. Excuse me. Nine rebounds, one rebound short of a triple double. Go ahead, Ocho.

[Colin Cowherd]

G.P. i'm glad you. I'm glad we agreed on what we talked about earlier, about Halliburton being a star and not a superstar. What do you need to see from him? What do you need to see from him for him to be a superstar in your eyes? What else does he have to do or kind of run consistently, but what.

[Tom Brokaw]

Team he's on to me. For you to be a superstar nowadays in this era, and Joe would know that, I think you would have to be. You have to be more of a score. You have to be more dominant, you know, and he's not that type of basketball player. So what it is, is. Is that now people have to say you are superstar because of what his production is every night right now. If he comes and get a triple double and average a triple double for the year now you become a superstar and your team is winning on a consistent basis and doing the things that you do, then you got to do it. But as Joe know, you gotta be gone to be a superstar. That's it.

[Shannon Sharpe]

They gotta just start saying, oh, recognition.

[Tom Brokaw]

Yeah, you gotta get recognition.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Ocho, how much money you paying to go see Halliburton?

[Colin Cowherd]

Don't do that. Don't do that.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Hey, G.P. joe, you gotta tell him.

[Tom Brokaw]

Yeah, but listen, that is true. Who is coming every night to say, I'm gonna pay 1,000, 2, $3,000 to come see Halliburton?

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay, that's not a. That's not a Pacers fan.

[Tom Brokaw]

Yeah, a lot of Pacers fan. Because where you go, you gotta go to. You gotta go to what, 30 something.

[Shannon Sharpe]

But you got 41 games on the road.

[Tom Brokaw]

You gotta go to 30. You gotta go to 30. Some other cities, you gotta go to like 29 or whatever. How many teams? 29th, 30 team. You gotta go to 29 other cities and see who comes and pay that money or he's gonna be the man in Indiana. Yes, that's where he plays at.

[Shannon Sharpe]

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[Shannon Sharpe]

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[Shannon Sharpe]

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[Colin Cowherd]

With the price of just about everything.

[Shannon Sharpe]

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[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Tom Brokaw]

Everybody to get 30, 30. Better get 30. Better get 20.

[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Shannon Sharpe]

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[Tom Brokaw]

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[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Tom Brokaw]

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[Shannon Sharpe]

Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment of 45 dollars for three month plan equivalent to 15 dollars per month required. New customer offer for first three months only. Speed slow. After 35 gigabytes of network's busy. Taxes and fees extra. See mint mobile.com he's perfect for them.

[Tom Brokaw]

That's what it is.

[Shannon Sharpe]

He's perfect for Indiana. And we're not trying to minimize. I like. You know what? I like that nickname. That nickname the moment is very marketable. He should run with that. Yeah, yeah. Hey, I put that on my shoes. I'm put. Hey, as a matter of fact, I'm changing my social media. I'm the moment. You see what Paul Pierce did with the truth?

[Tom Brokaw]

Oh yeah.

[Shannon Sharpe]

You see what Kobe did with Mamba?

[Tom Brokaw]

Hey, Shaq.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Hey, nobody calls Shaquille Shaquille. He Shaq. He the dc. Well, he was air lebron everything. He the big aristotle, the big chamber dc.

[Tom Brokaw]

Oh, he everything.

[Joe Johnson]

Hey, hey, hey, look, we gotta, we gotta give Indiana they credit though, man. They, they, they offense is fueled. You know, it's been fueled by that defense. The way they pick up full Court, they've done it the whole postseason. They've been disruptive. And I think that's the most gratifying thing for me when I watch them play, because even when they down GP, they still picking up 94ft. They picking up 94ft. They gonna wear you down. They gonna. And I like the fact that they switched up the coverages today. Like, man, don't get Shay, the steady guy. Make him, make him think about it. Cause now when he come off that pick and roll, gp, Ocho and Unc, now he thinking like, okay, damn, are they trapping? Are they gonna get.

[Tom Brokaw]

Are they gonna.

[Joe Johnson]

Are they gonna be in a drop? What they gonna be in. So now he's kind of second guessing himself on how to make his moves. And I thought it, I thought it.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Worked for him tonight if he turned his back, hey, the guy that he turned his back to go to him.

[Tom Brokaw]

But they got four guys that do that and they're pressuring and they're. What they're doing is they're, they're trading off guard and they, and they even. They keeping pressure on him. And now what that does to Shay is that he starts saying, I can't get my game off. I can't get my game off. So what he do, he start. He start forcing things. President, he tried to start to go by. He, he. He won't even give up the ball. If the double come, he'll keep it and then they'll start putting their hands in there and sticking them. And, and he, and he, and he turned the ball up. But the one thing that's killing him, the referees are not calling that. So that's hurting too, because he usually gets them fouls. But now I give him that even when he goes to the bucket and they're bumping him. They're not calling that. And he's taking files, he's taking shots. It's going to be an and one. But them balls are just saying them referees are saying no play. This is what we going to do. And it's making this game very hard right now.

[Shannon Sharpe]

We've given OKC guys a lot of credit. I think we need to give Nemhard, we need to give N. Smith, we need to give Mappert, we need to give Shepherd. We need to give those guys credit because they're doing, as you said, they're doing an unbelievable job. Each guy is a little different. Each guy has a different body type and they're playing him different ways. So he's not getting used to any one person. Neesmith Got him for a minute. Nemhard to take him. And now Mather comes in, Matheran takes him, and then a shepherd comes in. He'll deal with it.

[Tom Brokaw]

Yeah.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Hey. Hey, Seattle. Hey, look, once again, turn his back. Hey, y' all come. Cause he. He. He's not one of these point guards like a Luka or LeBron. That's really. That. He goes to the basket and he's looking to kick out 4, 3. He's looking to get the ball up to the rim. So, hey, come from behind swat.

[Joe Johnson]

That's.

[Shannon Sharpe]

How many. How many times did Siakam get it down? How many times did Miles Turner. So I think we need to give a. Rightfully so. Okay, see, we know where they are defensively, but I think we need to give the Pacers because they're doing an unbelievable job, what, 20 points in the third quarter. They gave up 20. Hold up 20. 15. They get 15 points in the fourth quarter, 28 points in the second quarter. So that's 43 points over two quarters.

[Joe Johnson]

And look at the Pacers, man. They had 11 blocks. Yes, 11 blocks. So it lets you know they contesting everything. They very aggressive, and they making it tough on okc, man. I love to see it, guys. This has been a pretty good series, if you ask me, especially from a defensive standpoint. From what Indiana is trying to impose their will, feeding off their crowd tonight. It looked amazing in there, and they was able to come away with the victory. So OKC got to get back to the drawing board, man. They got to come out with much more energy and be able to ustain. Hey, look, GP in the fourth quarter, I look with four, five minutes left, everybody for OKC was grabbing their shorts, bent over, grabbing their shorts. They were dead dog tired. And that's what I want. They going to pressure you all game, and hopefully you dial toward the end. I thought toward the end, it was a telltale because they started missing free throws.

[Shannon Sharpe]

I was like, 18 points. Excuse me, my bad. 18 points. OKC scored 18 points, not 15 in the fourth quarter.

[Tom Brokaw]

Go ahead, GP. Joe, this is just like a prize fighter. If you get beat on for 12 and 15 rounds and keep knocking, you're knocking. What are you going to do? You're going to get tired, and then by the time it comes to the end of the end of the game, you're going to be dead tired, and you're going to fool around and get knocked out. You see what I'm saying? And that's just the way Gabe. And that's what Indiana is doing. And Shannon, you said it. They're just. We gotta give credit, really, to Carlisle because his game plan, that's doing what he's doing. He's telling him to double, he's telling him to come behind and block shots. And then what he do, he starts subbing. He said, now you take. You get over three minutes. You pressuring, you dog him out for three minutes. Now you go get three more minutes. Now you go get him for three more minutes. And what they're doing is like a prize fighter. They're wearing you down. When we used to see fighters, man, if they jabbed you and jabs or jabbed you and kept you away, what did you do? You got. They got frustrated. Boxes are getting frustrated because you getting that head all toe up, you know, get this all beat down, right? What they doing is they beating his body down and he's trying to force things now and it's not working. They're going to have to come with a game plan where they're going to have to kick the ball and other people are going to have to produce because they're not going to let Jay play the game. He's the mvp, he's a superstar, and he hurts you. Now what did I do? I take that type of basketball player out of the game. And once they do that, they're going to win games like this. And Oklahoma City is going to have to get a game plan and come with something different for game four.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Hey, listen, I'm not letting them play one on one. Go ahead.

[Colin Cowherd]

Ocho, Sa, Uncle GP and. And. And Joe, listen, I think this is the rest of the series. Shane is going to have to pick his spots. He's going to have to choose his spots and change his game a little bit. You know, maybe you can come out and be as assertive as you like to be, you know, you know, you're not going to get those fouls. So you got to pick and choose and spurts when to take those shots, when to drive, when to try to create those fouls. You know, when to get to your midi, when to put the ball on the floor, when to kick it out. If they trapping you the way they are trapping you maybe have to. Your approach to the game in general has to be completely different. And getting everybody else involved first and then picking your shots and your chances and when to be assertive and hoping, you know, you guys can win on the defensive end, you know, maybe, you know, getting some easy boxing, easy buckets to get yourself in rhythm, you know. But outside of that, I really don't see the Pacers coming up off this lead. The way it is. We are. We already up and I told y' all before the series started that the Pacer was probably going to win this series because the rest of the world had crowned the Thunder the NBA champions already. And this is just what I expected to happen.

[Tom Brokaw]

Also what I think what Shay has to do is, is he has to get rid of the ball a little sooner. But he's got to start moving, right, get rid of the ball, start cutting on him a little bit and get easier buckets. Because what he wants to do is he wants to ISO. He wants, he wants you one on one. If he gets you one on one, you're done. Yeah, but now they're doing him and they understand that. And I go again to Carlisle, he understands that this kid is very good one on one basketball player by yourself. So he doesn't want him to play by himself. A lot of coaches don't feel, don't understand that. They let your players just play. And in this era, guys are too good body play like that.

[Colin Cowherd]

Right, right.

[Tom Brokaw]

So he's not letting it happen and he's understanding. And look, he's getting rewarded with it. He's getting wins and his players are getting a big, a lot of confidence. Yeah. And then Oklahoma City has got to win game four or this is over. I don't see him beating them three in a row.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Gp, you said something very interesting. You say he needs to get some easier baskets like cut without the basketball. But that's not his game. That's Steph Curry's game. There are not a whole, there are not a whole lot of guards. There are not a whole lot of players because I'm not going to, I'm not going to do something that I haven't been doing and I'm going to do it in the biggest game of the biggest games of my life. That's not what he does. See what makes Steph so hard? Steph can handle the ball. And he's also great. He's more dangerous when he does not have the ball. Because if you let your guard down for just a second, a three ball is going up and it's probably going to hurt. You see, that's not Shay. Like you said, Shay wants the ball. He wants to play one on one. He going to put that shoulder in your chest, create separation and then gets the shot off. Well, if you let him play one on one, you can't stop that because they're not going to call him for A charge. Cause he was moving, he was dislodging N.E. smith, he was dislodging them hard. So they're not going to call that, but I'm going to take the ball out of his hands now. If he starts moving without the ball, I'll adjust after that. But I'm not letting him play one on one against them with nobody.

[Joe Johnson]

Hey, hey, G.P. i'm curious. I'm curious to hear what you think. What do you think about the lineup change with holmgren at the 5? Cause you know, Hardenstein, like tonight, he was kind of non existent, you know, if you ask me. So what do you think about the lineup change with them? Just going with one big. I know they probably don't want Hungritch playing against Pascal Siakam at the four, but I just feel like defensively, man, they. They gotta. They gotta clog up the paint a little bit, you know, be. Be a little more tough down there and being able to rebound, get one shot, rebound or even get second chance shots on the offensive end. Because I feel like that's one area that's kind of hurt.

[Tom Brokaw]

You absolutely right. Me, I wouldn't switch it. I'll keep it home run at the four and get my big body in there. But what I would do, Joe, I would punish Indiana on the other end by trying to go into him and make it a physical game and go without in and out with him. That's why it's messing up, because they can't match up with them like that. And that hurt him and he's got to perform. I don't care that mediocre game. He's got to be big every game. And I don't think that is what he's doing. He's got to be big every game. I wouldn't have switched my lineup. I would have still been with him, getting rebounds, getting things over, being aggressive and keeping that in. And then when they sub, I would sub with them. You know what I'm saying? And that's just the way it gotta go. And I think that the lineup change was not a good one. I would have stayed with my big men and punish them inside, get rebounds and keep myself in the basketball game. And you're right, Joe. That was a big difference to me. I seen that and I said that's not going to work because they don't match up with them very well.

[Joe Johnson]

Hey, Indiana getting a lot of libs, guys on the offensive end.

[Shannon Sharpe]

You know what I think happened, Joe? I think Dag saw what Cleveland, Cleveland with two bigs got blown out. The Knicks played two bigs, and so he's like, you know what? I'm going to make the adjustment. Because you see with Mobley and what's the big? Allen, Jared Allen too big. They lose 4 1, Karl Anthony Towns and Mitchell Robinson. So he's thinking that, like, hold on. None of my guys. First of all, Hardenstein is not an offensive weapon.

[Joe Johnson]

Right?

[Shannon Sharpe]

So he's only gonna get floaters and possibly put backs. Hold on. Siakam held his own against Cat. He held his own against Evan Mobley. Chad ain't got. Ain't gonna play with his basket to the basket. He's gonna play out a fingerprint.

[Tom Brokaw]

But Shannon, they can't guard Siaka. You see, that's the difference. They can't guard him. They're too big for that. This big guy, I'll just put him on Turner and then we are having. We'll equalize the thing. Soon as Turner goes out the game, I do it. Even with two big men, you still have to attack them. The two. I don't think the Knicks big men are that good. Only Towns. That's only what I think. Yeah. And then Cleveland, Mobley and Allen didn't have a good series period. You know what I'm saying? And they started off hurt from the get when, you know, they were already hurt. So that was. That was just a little different. I think if Cleveland would have been a little healthier, they would have been cool and they would have did it. But with this right here, I think you don't change your. Your style when you've been going with it all year. You don't change your style. You stick with it and go and knock people down. And I just think that they got to equalize it when they sub, they sell. Joe. You know it.

[Shannon Sharpe]

You.

[Tom Brokaw]

You sub people when they. When they sub. You gotta. Gotta do that. And that's just the way it goes. And I just think Oklahoma is just getting out play right now.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, just.

[Tom Brokaw]

Absolutely. Y' all just gotta understand they're just getting out play. We can't give. Ain't giving them no excuse. They're just getting out play.

[Colin Cowherd]

You know what? You know what? G.P. joe and Unc, not only are they getting outplayed, but Oklahoma's office is making it easier for Indiana, too, with the turnovers.

[Tom Brokaw]

Absolutely.

[Colin Cowherd]

Turnovers. You know that, too. And also, I forgot. I forgot when I said when about OKC having those bigs out there on the court. Obviously, I mean, obviously, shed is really no threat. Defense be outside of length and Height and then harden styles.

[Shannon Sharpe]

He's a rim protector. He's not an, he's not an own ball defender. Their own ball defenders are the wing players and they got a plethora of those. And because Chad doesn't have enough bricks in his back pocket, he's not going to play with his back to the basket. Seam is under no threat.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[Shannon Sharpe]

At all. So if he goes with Miles Turner, Miles Turner can play Chad Holren, he can play him on the wing or he can play him down low because he's no threat. Only on the wing is he a threat. And so Hardenstein is only looking to get loose balls. He's going to rebound, he's going to give you second chance points. But he's not an offensive, so they're not even worried about him. And so now what you do is that you become smaller. You don't give yourself, you don't give yourself second chance opportunities. You don't give yourself a rebounding, you don't give yourself defensive prowess. Because look, you got enough defense. If you got Lou Dorrit, you got Jalen Williams and shay. Shay was 12 in steals. We know what Lou Dorn is. He's an all defensive player. We know what Jalen Williams is. He's an all defensive player. You got plenty of defense. Why would you ever do that when you got. You won 68 games with that big lineup telling you, I don't know why.

[Tom Brokaw]

And Shannon, you're saying what I'm saying. I would have never changed my lineup. I'm not going to make them change my lineup of what I've done all year. I won 68 games.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[Tom Brokaw]

I don't care what nobody say with that lineup. So you don't do it. And then I don't want to. I didn't want to say nothing about the light. The light ass. But you know what I'm saying? I didn't want to say nothing. But he too light. You know what I'm saying? It ain't gonna work that way, man. So I'm just saying, y' all, you don't change because I can do what you've been doing.

[Shannon Sharpe]

GP O O and Joe, I can make an adjustment once I see what you're doing, but I'm not going to adjust before I even get to the damn game. Damn. I'm making adjustments when I don't need to. If, if, if, if I'm getting killed by the smaller lineups, well, then I'm. Because see here, the problem is this is what Golden State got A lot of teams to do. They. They. Oh, I'm taking my bigs off the court. No, y' all need to keep your bigs on the court and punish them down low. Get somebody to play with their back to the basketball and punish Draymond or punish Steph. Punish Clay. But when you try to go small, this. And that's what they wanted you to do. They wanted you to take your big out, and now Draymond's playing the five. You got Iggy, and you got all those little guys running around. That's not how you play.

[Tom Brokaw]

And you play how you play.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Let them play how you play, and then make adjustments accordingly.

[Tom Brokaw]

Wait, wait. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Shannon Ocho. Yeah. Just said about Golden State. Yeah, about you was trying to adjust. What did Minnesota do to him? Minnesota kept their digs in there on that small lineup and went at him. You use. You seen Randall? He averaged 30, you know what I'm saying? And then they picked the big boy that came from Oklahoma, Adams. They were killing them. They couldn't get a rebound. You know what I'm saying? And it was bad. And then Oklahoma City is doing the same thing right now. They're getting one and done, and they ain't getting no rebounds. They ain't doing anything.

[Shannon Sharpe]

I think.

[Joe Johnson]

Hey, look, when you. When you look at the intangibles that Hardenstein brings, like he says, great picks on Ocho and gp, He. He will say he will lay wood on them guys and roll to the.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Basket and get a dunk.

[Joe Johnson]

But look, when he rolled to the basket, even if he ain't got the little floater, he makes great decisions by spraying out for threes or hitting hungrits for a live dunk or something like, man, I just. I just feel like they. They at least need to even try to go back to it. And look, if it don't work in the first five to seven minutes, okay, we can start. But like you say, we won 68 games off that. Why are we changing when we the best team the whole entire season? I never understood.

[Colin Cowherd]

Hey, hey, Joe. GP I hear y' all. Uncle, I hear you, too. But. But I. I think they. They made that change in that lineup simply because Hardenstein, they understand. Listen, okay, getting a few boards or getting a few put backs or getting a few alleys, you know, coming off picks and rolls or whatnot, he's still a liability. On defense, he's a liability. And the way them goddamn paces transition when they do grab them balls off the Court, they going up and down. And then it's like it's got damn phone goddamn five.

[Shannon Sharpe]

And they understand that's not that much of a liability.

[Tom Brokaw]

He ain't that much liability. Now Turner in the game, too. All he got to do is run, get down. Get down the flow, man. I'm just telling you, he ain't that much liability. He got to get down the flow. Like we said. He done played all year like this. And Ojo, you gotta understand, it's only seven games left, baby. It's only seven games left, baby. All you gotta do is go in there and get busy. And y' all only gotta win, folk, you know what I'm saying? And that's it. You gotta suck it up during this time, man. To me, suck it up. You gotta be able to adjust to everything that's gonna happen. And with this big dude, I. I agree with Joe. He. He brings too much to their table. He brings much. He brings too much pics. He brings enough getting people ultra shots. He. And if he doing that. Yeah. And not stopping it, then who's going to make an adjustment?

[Colin Cowherd]

Right?

[Tom Brokaw]

They are. They're going to start making adjustments. You know what I'm saying? Don't just come in the game and say, oh, man, I done looked your film for two or three days now. I'm going to change my lineup, man. What I don't get, it's 1 1. Ojo, it was 1 to 1, man. You not losing 2, 0. You in a panic. To me, when you change your lineup, that's a panic. Just stay with what you got and see what happens. And I thought he gonna go back to his lineup.

[Shannon Sharpe]

No, he's not. No, he's not. GP because he. Me and Joe talked about this. Game one, he started out because I was looking at the lineup, I was like, why is Wallace. I say, what he. He started this game one. He took Hardenstein out of the starting lineup and put Wallace in. I. Joe and I, we talked about this. I was like, joe, I just don't understand that I'm going to make an adjustment when I need to. If my car's running fine, I'm not going to take it to the shop and say, hey, man, change the transmission. What the car going, oh, Joe, hey, G.P. i'm going along good. I don't need to. It's not that. It's a. It's not grinding. I can back up. I can go forward. Why would I go to the mechanic and say, charge the transmission when there's nothing wrong with a Perfectly good car. You won 68 games. You got the MVP. You got one of the top defensive teams in basketball with the big lineup. And in the most important series of the OKC under. Dagna, you make this change. Now, look, it can still work out, but I. Look, I would. I'm going to make an adjustment when I need to make an adjustment. And I don't think they needed to make an adjustment.

[Joe Johnson]

I agree, man.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Most points off the bench in an NBA Finals game. Sam Cassell has the record. In 1995, in game two, he had 31. Downtown Freddie Brown, the SuperSonics, now the OKC Thunder. In 1978, game one, he had 30. Benedict Matheran, Pacers, 20, 25. Game three, he had 27. Jason Terry, Dallas Mavericks, 2011, game six, 27. And Manu Ginobli, 2007, game four, 27. So Benedict Matheran had won a game. It's his playoff career high, and he picked a great time to have it.

[Joe Johnson]

And he looked good, too, man. He looked damn good.

[Colin Cowherd]

Hold on, Joe, don't jump on the bandwagon now.

[Tom Brokaw]

Joe, don't do that. We ain't gonna be talking like this on Friday if OKC come back and win. You know what I'm saying? So okc, we. We can sit here and talk all that. It's still two one going into Game four. OKC has just understand that you get a win, it's super.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Get a win and go back to.

[Tom Brokaw]

Okc home court advantage. Back again to yourself. You know what I'm saying? And that's what it is. But y' all guys gotta understand, we gotta give Indiana all this credit. They did a great job of winning game three. That's what they're supposed to do. They're at home now. What OKC has to do is just come back. You guys gotta understand. Two times in his playoffs, OKC has done this. They have done this. They have lost game one, came back in one Game two and lost game three. You know what I'm saying? And they've been in this situation before. Now you got to come into game four and just say, hey, let's just win this game, shut everybody up, go back home, and we'll see what happens.

[Shannon Sharpe]

That's not all they got to do. If they went and listen.

[Tom Brokaw]

What.

[Shannon Sharpe]

All they want to do is go back, go back to OKC tied, and I got game five and game seven on my home court.

[Colin Cowherd]

It's not gonna happen. I didn't tell y' all.

[Tom Brokaw]

I bet you. I bet you that old show Friday, that They beat him, they go Oklahoma's gonna beat him. Hold on.

[Colin Cowherd]

You want to bet something? Put something.

[Tom Brokaw]

I bet it. Bet it. Hey, make it lighter yourself.

[Colin Cowherd]

Make it light on yourself.

[Tom Brokaw]

Hey, anything goes with me, okay?

[Colin Cowherd]

Bet 100. Better.

[Tom Brokaw]

I bet you, honey.

[Colin Cowherd]

Huh?

[Joe Johnson]

Now he can't hear.

[Tom Brokaw]

Yeah.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Now his Internet acting funny.

[Colin Cowherd]

My wi fi is just lagged a little bit.

[Joe Johnson]

Yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

You sure?

[Tom Brokaw]

I'm sure. If you want to, we can go three.

[Colin Cowherd]

No, no, no, no, no, no.

[Joe Johnson]

I got.

[Colin Cowherd]

I got.

[Tom Brokaw]

I got child support.

[Colin Cowherd]

I got child support doing two weeks, so.

[Shannon Sharpe]

You got adult support, too. I want my 5,900.

[Colin Cowherd]

I got you. I got you, baby. Hey, sweet. Hey, listen, as soon as GP paid me Friday, and as soon as. Joe, gimme my hundred, that's.

[Tom Brokaw]

Yo, yo, yo.

[Joe Johnson]

Keep me out of. Keep me out of this.

[Tom Brokaw]

Okay? Keep me out. Ojo. I'll see you. I'll see you. My cash app. I'll just let it sit there for a little while and get a little interest. I got you.

[Shannon Sharpe]

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[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Lester Holt]

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[Shannon Sharpe]

This is Jenny Garth from I do part two. Can't afford Ozempic? Try WeGovy from FutureHealth. Just $199 and FDA approved for weight loss. No insurance or tricky syringes needed, just results. Visit futurehealth.com that's future without the E and start losing weight this week. Future Health weight loss data based on independent studies sponsored by Future Health Future Health is not a health care services provider. Meds are prescribed at provider's discretion.

[Tom Brokaw]

Foreign.

[Shannon Sharpe]

For SGA today saying we're looking at Kobe Bryant being created too soon for the Kobe comparison. Gp you played with Kobe at his absolute apex. Are we. Is this is. Is this a good comparison? Too soon?

[Tom Brokaw]

Nowhere man. It's gonna be one Kobe.

[Shannon Sharpe]

That's it.

[Tom Brokaw]

I don't care what y' all say. It's only one Kobe. Yeah, just like y' all telling me to say Joe Buckets over there. Ain't nobody like Joe Joe can get buckets. You know what I'm saying? Don't y' all compare people to people Especially somebody like. Like Kobe Bryant. Let. Let Shakey Shay. I don't think he Kobe yet. You know what I'm saying? I don't think he ever will be Kobe. He's a great basketball player. But you guys slow down. It ain't gonna be. It ain't gonna be no Coke. No more Cokes. But it was a different. It was a different beats, you know what I'm saying? So don't compare him to that. And for y' all people to be even put people's name on other people. That's not for me.

[Shannon Sharpe]

For me, I can see GP Joe Ocho. I can see the comparisons when people say style of play, Jordan and Kobe, because the style of play is very, very similar. Yeah, when I look at Shay, I don't see. I don't. I don't see anything that reminds me of Kobe, honestly.

[Tom Brokaw]

I'm saying the same thing, Shan. That. That's not. It's not. I'm being.

[Shannon Sharpe]

And that's not a knock. That's not a knock on Shay because I think he's phenomenal. I think we all in agreeance. He's phenomenal. He earned the MVP this season. But when I watch his game and I watched Kobe from day one when he air balled against Utah in the playoffs. So I watched him his entire career. I don't see. I don't see Kobe. I don't think.

[Tom Brokaw]

Oh, but that's Kobe. I don't.

[Shannon Sharpe]

I don't see that.

[Tom Brokaw]

Obi. Kobe was a different beast. Shannon. I'm just telling y' all, it's a different. It's a different beast. And then we could compare Jordan, Kobe, because Kobe tried to be like Jordan. Yeah. So it's a little bit different, man. And I hate people that even try to compare anybody else game to somebody you putting. You putting that man name on. On greatness. You know what I'm saying? So y' all stop that. There's no comparison there. I don't think that. Yeah, that's it. Like somebody saying they. They play like you in football. Get me, man. Get out of here, man.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Y' all.

[Tom Brokaw]

Y' all talking stupid right now. You know what I'm saying? That's like doing dumb stuff, man. So just slow down, people. Slow down. Slow down on that.

[Colin Cowherd]

I think. I think most of the time when it comes to people. Yeah, even. Even some of the elite players, some of those with. With great knowledge of basketball, we come. We become prisoners of the moment. They become prisoners of the moment. We do in something that looks or depicts what we're used to seeing in greatness as Kobe is, you know, the styles and the smoothness, the butter like style of play is somewhat similar. You know, being able to get to your shot, get to your meeting. And when he rise up, he looked like Kobe a little bit. But SGA has his own style, SGA has his own style. And even putting that pressure on sga, even though he's one MVP and even though he has a toolbox, putting that pressure on him, comparing him to Kobe, you shouldn't do that because Kobe is, is. He's an iconic figure in his own right in the way he has approached to the game is completely, completely, completely different. And he's in a class of his own where the comparison shouldn't even be right as sga.

[Shannon Sharpe]

It's like when people try to say, it's like when people say, Man, LeBron ain't Jordan. No LeBron game is like Magic.

[Tom Brokaw]

Absolutely.

[Shannon Sharpe]

That's the comparison that you should make because both of those guys will pass first. Now LeBron is a better scorer than, than, than, than, than, than, than. Magic could rebound the ball better than Magic. But the, the way they orchestra, the way they control the ball game both with pass first. Now if you need me to go give you 30, I think, you know, I think LeBron is a better scorer. He could score the basketball better. Better than Magic. Magic taught him and both guys taught themselves how to shoot. Magic had that little push, that little one handed push, gpu.

[Tom Brokaw]

Oh, hey, you know, you know I played, I'm just even playing, you know what I'm saying? So he had that little push, that.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Little push one handed. But it was effective. Magic, big guy, six, nine could post. Magic was looking, hey, you better have somebody, hey, you better have, have your boots on and be ready to play. Cause if you were small, Magic was gonna post your ass.

[Tom Brokaw]

Shannon, he knew how to do the hook shot, that baby hook, that everything. See, he was a little different. And the way what we should say about LeBron and Magic, they're both all around basketball, correct? They're complete basketball players. They do everything. You see what I'm saying? So that's what people compare to people and all that stuff, man. Now that would be a great comparison.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yes.

[Tom Brokaw]

Both of them two are complete basketball players. They're all around class.

[Shannon Sharpe]

And then you got to look at.

[Tom Brokaw]

Magic was six, nine and about two something. And then you got LeBron six, eight and two something. So you gotta, you gotta understand they are the comparison with you. Now if you say LeBron look like Magic I'll be like, yeah, yeah, I can see that. That's real true. But when you say Shay look like Kobe. Stop it. Wait.

[Colin Cowherd]

Who made that? Who made that? Who made that comparison?

[Shannon Sharpe]

Lou Will.

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay.

[Joe Johnson]

Hey, hey, hey. To kind of answer your question that you asked earlier, when the last time we seen a team like this win a championship, it would probably be that Pistons team, I think. Gp, you played against that Piston team. I know they had like.

[Tom Brokaw]

Yeah, you had to mention that guy. Are you all on that, Joe?

[Joe Johnson]

Hey, look, they had about three, four all stars that year, but. Yeah, yeah, so. But, you know, they. I don't think not. I don't think more than one person stood out. They all. They was by committee, and they. They attacked that Lakers team, man, like. Like no other.

[Tom Brokaw]

And Joe, they didn't have all star. They had Ben Wallace, they had Rasheed.

[Shannon Sharpe]

They had Prince, they had Appleton and Dick Chaucee.

[Tom Brokaw]

So that. That was their day. They had all five basketball players, wasn't a star. They all had five basketball players, and they played together. And then they had guys coming off the bench. That was kind of nice, too, you feel? And so you right comparison to one team that won a championship and that was in 04 against us, they have a superstar neither, you know, because y' all players, all good basketball players.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Hey, G.P. i think when. When Mailman got hurt, I think that really hurt y' all.

[Tom Brokaw]

Shannon, I said to everybody and everybody say it. We were 18 and 2 when Karl Malone got hurt. When he went down, it blew us all up because we didn't have the. We didn't have the structure of everything. And we're applying. We're trying to play a triangle. And I was just. Just trying to get custom to the triangle. And then you gotta understand, we had a lot of problems within ourselves, you know, going through what he was going through. Shaq was feuding with Dr. Buss, and we were wearing in a thing, and Carl kept us together because you remember when Carl got hurt, we were 4, 18 and 2. And we all was averaging 17, and I was averaging 18. So we're all like, 18, 17, 17, 17. And it was flowing. And you right, Carl Malone took it away from us, and it blew us up. It blew us up when that happened.

[Shannon Sharpe]

KD was online yesterday and had time to go back and forth with someone on X. It all started when he responded to a tweet saying, I think it's time to admit Kevin Durant's trajectory after leading Golden State is very underwhelming. KD responded, I highly Disagree. Want a debate? Another guy, the same guy said, no disrespect. You're one of the best, most skilled players in NBA history. But ever since leaving Golden State, you haven't done much and you're going to be on your third team. Then if you get traded, if you think you stayed in Golden State, you would have won more championships. All stars, 50, 40, 90. All NBA official bucket, brother. I also got a career high since one year, hit 30,000 points, won a couple of gold medals and MVP. And what a career. I'm still going. I love life. I haven't done much. It's just your opinion, not based on facts. Once again, your statement is talking about me as an individual, right? Because you can't talk about my teams without talking about everybody else as well. So without them being involved in the convict, it comes down to just me. I've laid it out, what I've done. If you want to talk about basketball as a team sport, those are two separate things. This is what we. Kevin. I agree with what Kevin says, but if we look at it, that's not how they judge LeBron. That's not how they've ever GP. They don't judge great like that. They like either. You won because the winners get the credit and when they lose, they get the blame.

[Tom Brokaw]

That's just the way it is, right? When you're a great player, Shannon, you're always going to take the blame.

[Shannon Sharpe]

It is always.

[Tom Brokaw]

I don't care what nobody say. When you're a focal point of everything and you lose, you're going to get the blame. It's just that you got to take it the way it is. You got to take the good for the bad. You know what I'm saying? You're gonna take it when it's good, so when it's bad, take it. You know what I'm saying? And KD is my guy, you know, that's my little youngster. So he's gonna go back at you, kd. Leave it alone, man. You know how great you is. Just come back what you gotta do, man. It is what it is. You know, once you come to a team. And I think KD has not been on a good basketball team since he left Golden State. I'm just gonna tell him I don't believe that he hasn't been on a good basketball team. He had another great next to him that can make shots and do everything. Remember, Draymond was, was, was fresh. He was young. You had a young clay. You have Iguodawa. You Had a lot of good basketball players on there that, you know, you. You can get around.

[Shannon Sharpe]

And Livingston.

[Tom Brokaw]

And Livingston, well, I forgot about the guy. He changed the game around, you know what I'm saying? It's deep, you know what I'm saying? Alone. But he's gotta understand if he goes to a good basketball team, if he get traded from Phoenix, then he can do at it because I don't think nobody can still stop it. He can score the basketball too. Well, he still averaged 26 this year. I don't understand, you know what I'm saying? It's just that he was just on a bad basketball team. And what happens is if he gets traded to somebody good, he can show that skill again of what he is. And he hasn't lost a step. I don't care what you say. You don't have to lose a step up in this NBA because all you gotta do is be able to score. And he can still score the basketball.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Joe, before you go, the problem that you're gonna run into is that when he went to Golden State, he was a free agent, so they didn't have to give up anything. If you trade for him, you're gonna lose some of your depth. That's what happened. That's what happened with Phoenix. Oh, yeah, they got him. But look at what they had to give up to get him.

[Joe Johnson]

Right?

[Shannon Sharpe]

Okay. And now you trade, now you bring in Bradley. Bill, you had to give up more depth. And the analogy I like to use, GP is like when Carmelo went from Denver to New York. Well, you had to give up so much to get him. So when he got there, he damn near by himself.

[Tom Brokaw]

Yeah.

[Shannon Sharpe]

So when KD goes, you got scoring, but you got no depth. Look at the team that are in NBA Finals. What do they have?

[Tom Brokaw]

Depth?

[Shannon Sharpe]

They don't have a player that's. I mean, you might say Shay might be the closest thing, the equivalent to him. But what do they have? Look at the. Look at their benches. Look at anytime a book on kd and they leave the court. The benches was awful. So when you can go somewhere as a free agent and they don't have to give up any compensation for you now. But look, Kevin, kd, he's not gonna win this argument. I don't care what. And everything that he said is true. He's our greatest Olympian basketball player, no doubt about it. But he was never. And I used the analogy, New edition. He was never gonna be accepted like the OG members, Ronnie, Bobby, Ricky, Ricky and Mike. He was never. Because you know what? He was Johnny Gill. Johnny Gill could outsang them all. But he didn't grow up in Roxbury. So when you look at it, it's like, it's rare that you have somebody that comes onto a group that wasn't a part of the original group and people remember it. So that's what KD was. KD is great. He's his historically great. And we might not ever see a guy his size that could handle Dirk was his height, but Dirk shot that one Legged Dirk wasn't putting the ball on the floor, getting to the rim like kd. He wasn't putting ball on the floor and getting to the midi like KD and Shannon.

[Tom Brokaw]

I gotta, I gotta correct you on that. The greatest Olympian is Carmelo.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Oh, you, you, you put Carmelo. Okay.

[Tom Brokaw]

Because he, he done scored all the points in the thing. He did everything in a lot of Olympics that. He got all the records.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Do it off the bench.

[Tom Brokaw]

Yeah, he, he got all the records. So if you want to say doing all accomplishment in Olympics as one player, that's Carmelo Anthony. Okay? He is the one.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Joe, what's your take? Joe?

[Joe Johnson]

Man, listen, as far as KD moving around, going to a new team, I want to see him go somewhere, man. Well, he don't have to do much dirty work, fellas. I want to see him go somewhere where he can just, you know, kind of thrive offensively. Yeah. Defensively he going to make a difference. But if you put him on any team that's pretty good and GP you notice he gonna take him over the top, man. He's gonna take them to that next level where they trying to. Whether it's San Antonio, whether it's Houston, whether it's Detroit, wherever, wherever it may be. I just want to see him get, get somewhere to where, you know, he can catapult a team to the next level, man.

[Tom Brokaw]

So what team? What, what, what team? Georgia. You think that that would be.

[Joe Johnson]

I mean, it just depends on what we gotta. What you got to give up to get him.

[Shannon Sharpe]

I like Houston, I love. But you can throw a three team.

[Tom Brokaw]

Deal and give away two of them little players from Houston. Keep your core, a little bit of core and then you'll, you can still be good.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yeah. Cause you're gonna probably have to. The thing is, you're probably gonna have to give up Shingoon and Jalen Green.

[Tom Brokaw]

Jalen Green, I wouldn't care about that. Jalen Green and Shagon, but you got all them other younger players around because you.

[Shannon Sharpe]

I'm not giving up on Min Thompson. I'm not giving up Thompson.

[Tom Brokaw]

I'm not. And you know where he from? Shay, you know, he's from the Biggly Bigly. Oh my.

[Joe Johnson]

I can't see. I can't see Houston giving up Shangun. You don't think so that's that low now maybe now I know I don't know if the money add up if you give up Jabari Smith Jr. But I don't see them giving up Sengun.

[Tom Brokaw]

Man, I wouldn't give him up neither Shannon. I would give up Green and probably.

[Shannon Sharpe]

But how do we make the money right?

[Tom Brokaw]

But you got to go a three team trade. That's what I'm saying. You got to bring a third team in to bring him to moving there because the third team can give up some draft picks. You're going to have to at least give up three first round draft picks. You're going to have to.

[Shannon Sharpe]

I don't know if you're going to have to give up that much MLGP because I think you're going to look at his age, he's going to be 37 plus his injury history.

[Tom Brokaw]

But then Shannon, you still got to think about it. The other team's got to get something too. They are third team has to get at least one first round because think about it.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Because here's another thing guys, we got to think, we got to take into consideration Ocho.

[Tom Brokaw]

Yeah.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Luka Doncic at 25 went for Anthony Davis and another and a first round pick at 25. So.

[Tom Brokaw]

But Shannon, you went for Anthony Davis. Anthony Davis was pretty goddamn good.

[Colin Cowherd]

But.

[Tom Brokaw]

Still watches out, you know what I'm saying?

[Shannon Sharpe]

He's 32 with an injury history and I'm giving you a guy that just took a team to the NBA Finals at 25 and look what he done.

[Tom Brokaw]

Did when he came back to the Lakers. And then do it too much.

[Shannon Sharpe]

We gonna get it right.

[Tom Brokaw]

One on one basketball ain't gonna work.

[Shannon Sharpe]

We gonna get it right. He gonna be. Hey, as a matter of fact, he traded LeBron right now I know you.

[Tom Brokaw]

A big LA fan, but.

[Shannon Sharpe]

No, no, I'm a LeBron fan. No, no, no, I'm a LeBron fan.

[Tom Brokaw]

I'm with you. Yeah, I'm a fan of his too.

[Shannon Sharpe]

But that's when he leave. I'm going somewhere. I don't know where I'm going, but I'm going somewhere.

[Tom Brokaw]

Oh, you like to travel at All Stars? Hey, I get it. I get it.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Hey, at first, my first. At first Kobe was my guy. Yeah, I was a Kobe fan. Burns One of my best friends, he was a LeBron fan. Now, he knew about Kevin Durant. Cause Kevin Durant's from that area, Prince George county, so that DMV area. He said, I tell you what I do. He said, I'll let you have LeBron if you give me Kevin Durant. He said, as a matter of fact, I give you Kobe and LeBron. I said, hold on. You gonna give me Kobe and LeBron, and all you want is Kevin Durant? Because I was supposed to get the next guy to come out the next year, so Kevin Durant, theoretically, was supposed to be my player. I said, okay, done. So I said, I got Kobe and Bronson. Ah, bro, you hot. So he's been. So he. He got KD, and I got Kobe and LeBron. But it's just. I don't. I mean, I'm just trying to figure out where can he go where they don't have to give. They don't have to give up their depth, because you look at these two teams, what got them to where they are was their depth.

[Tom Brokaw]

Yeah, I think he goes back to Golden State.

[Shannon Sharpe]

You. I don't think. No, he ain't going back there to gp.

[Tom Brokaw]

Hey, you don't want to go back there because it was the way. Way it ended. But if he goes back there, I guarantee you they'll be. They'll. They'll. They'll be a contender for the championship.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Oh, well, first. Well, here's the thing, though. You giving up Kaminga, you giving up Moody, you giving up all those guys you're giving up.

[Tom Brokaw]

You're going to give up. I think two of them. You're playing them. You give up. And. But. But, Chad, they're not playing anyway because it doesn't matter. You're gonna give up Domingo anyway. He's gonna leave. He's gonna leave now. They're gonna try to trade him anyway. Yeah, you don't even play him anyway. You don't play him. So you're gonna be the same way. You're gonna have Butler, Curry, Draymond, and then Draymond. That's your four. And I don't care how old these dudes is, they still was in the playoffs and making noise this year being that way. Only reason they lost in Minnesota is because Curry got hurt. I understand if you keep them other little cores around you to play their roles, they will be a good basketball team for him to go back to, and he can go. And I guarantee that they'll still be in the playoffs and they'll make a run for a championship with him. That's all they needed. They just needed him. And then you make Butler become the third option. Come on, man, they gonna be pretty good. Cause that's what they did when they won the champ. They won the two championship. They had him, Clay and Curry, right?

[Shannon Sharpe]

Draymond doing everything. Hey, GP man, thanks for joining us, man. We know you got a busy schedule, man. Thanks for jumping on with us tonight, breaking the game down. Hey, when you get a few, hey, maybe come back and break it down with us. If we get a game seven, come back and finish it up with us.

[Tom Brokaw]

You know, man, all y' all gotta do is ask me, man. You know, man, y' all know y' all fat fam.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Appreciate that, GP.

[Tom Brokaw]

I see you this weekend.

[Joe Johnson]

Yes, sir.

[Tom Brokaw]

The volume.

[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Shannon Sharpe]

This is Jenny Garth from I do part two. Can't afford Ozempic? Try WeGovy from FutureHealth just $199 and FDA approved for weight loss. No insurance or tricky syringes needed, just results. Visit futurehealth.com that's future without the E and start losing weight this week. Future Health weight loss data based on independent studies sponsored by Future Health. Future Health is not a healthcare services provider. Meds are prescribed at providers discretion. Okay, have you heard about this? Last year, Degree changed the formula for.

[Tom Brokaw]

Their Cool Rush deodorant.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Their fans rebelled and wanted the old SIM back. That and degree Listen, that doesn't happen often.

[Tom Brokaw]

They admitted that they effed up and are bringing the original Cool Rush scent back. And it's exactly how you remember it. Cool, crisp and fresh. There's a reason it's the number one men's antiperspirant and is back in Walmart, Target and other stores for under $4. So try it and see what the fuss is about.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Head to your local stores to try the OG Cool Rush for yourself. T Mobile's stats are as impressive as your favorite athlete's highlight reel because T Mobile helps keep you connected from the heart of Portland to right where you are on America's largest 5G network switch. Now keep your phone and T Mobile will pay it off at the $800.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Per line via prepaid card.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com keepandswitch up to 4 lines of your virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualifying unlock device, credit service port in 90 plus days device and eligible carrier and timely redemption required. Card has no cash access and expires in six months. This is an I Heart podcast.