Nightcap - Hour 1: Unc, Ocho, Iso Joe & Antoine Walker react to Thunder beating the Pacers to go 2-2!

Summary

Club Shay Shay - Nightcap Episode Summary

Podcast Information:

• Title: Club Shay Shay
• Host/Author: iHeartPodcasts and Shay Shay Media
• Description: NFL legend Shannon Sharpe—3x Super Bowl champion and member of the Pro Football Hall of Fame—sits down with the biggest athletes, celebrities, and influencers to discuss their accomplishments, challenges, and everything in-between.
• Episode: Nightcap - Hour 1: Unc, Ocho, Iso Joe & Antoine Walker react to Thunder beating the Pacers to go 2-2!
• Release Date: June 14, 2025

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Participants:

• Shannon Sharpe: Host
• Joe Johnson (ISO Joe): Co-host
• Chad Ochocinco Johnson (Ocho): Co-host
• Antoine Walker: Guest Analyst

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1. Introduction and Game Overview

The episode kicks off with Shannon Sharpe welcoming listeners and introducing the co-hosts—Joe Johnson and Chad Ochocinco Johnson—and guest Antoine Walker. The main focus is the recent NBA game where the Oklahoma City Thunder defeated the Indiana Pacers, tying the series at 2-2.

Notable Quote:

• Shannon Sharpe [02:43]: "OKC did what they needed to do. They came to Indiana and got a game."

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2. Detailed Game Breakdown

Shay Shay's Performance: Shay Shay, the MVP, showcased a stellar performance, particularly in the fourth quarter. Initially, he was efficient with only two free throws in the first 44 minutes, but he ramped up his performance in the crucial final minutes.

Notable Quotes:

• Shay Shay [04:37]: "The last eight minutes he had eight free throws. So he was 10 of 10 for the night."
• Shannon Sharpe [06:27]: "When you look at what Indiana... Abandoned their bigs and went back to their big lineup, they won in the paint."

Jalen Williams' Impact: Jalen Williams contributed significantly with 35 points on 12-of-24 shooting and was pivotal in keeping the game close until the Thunder's strong fourth-quarter surge.

Notable Quote:

• Joe Johnson [05:20]: "Nah, the Thunder won it, man. It was a great game... They were tied 22."

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3. Player Performances and Key Contributions

Oklahoma City Thunder:

• Shay Shay: Dominant in the fourth quarter, maintaining composure and efficiency.
• Jalen Williams: Scored 35 points, playing aggressively against Pacers' defense.
• Chet Holmgren: Achieved a double-double, contributing significantly on both ends.
• Lou Dort and Alex Caruso: Caruso made history as the first bench player in NBA Finals with 20 points and 5 steals.

Indiana Pacers:

• Pascal Siakam: Key player who struggled against the Thunder's defensive adjustments.
• Obi Toppin: Scored 36 points from the bench but couldn't overcome the deficit in the fourth quarter.

Notable Quotes:

• ISO Joe [28:42]: "Jalen Williams had four, but for the most part, Shay only had two. Lou Dort had one."
• Joe Johnson [25:17]: "SGA is the first player since Jerry West to have 35 plus points and 0 assists in the Finals game."

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4. Coaching Strategies and Adjustments

Thunder's Coaching: Rick Carlisle made pivotal adjustments by reverting to their big lineup, which proved effective in the fourth quarter. The team focused on doubling key players and fortifying their defense, disrupting the Pacers' rhythm.

Pacers' Coaching Challenges: Criticism was directed at Rick Carlisle for not having a clear go-to player, resulting in too many random offensive plays. The lack of a definitive scorer made it difficult to counter the Thunder's strategies.

Notable Quotes:

• Shannon Sharpe [11:51]: "If I'm a lose as a coach... I'm just going to live and die."
• Joe Johnson [32:10]: "They doubled him, he wasn't letting him breathe."

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5. Team Dynamics and Future Prospects

Oklahoma City Thunder: With a balanced team and clear roles, the Thunder demonstrated resilience and adaptability. Their ability to maintain focus under pressure positions them well for the remainder of the series.

Indiana Pacers: The Pacers face significant questions regarding their offensive strategy and depth. The by-committee approach lacks the consistency needed in high-stakes games, potentially hindering their chances in the series.

Notable Quotes:

• Shannon Sharpe [12:01]: "You gotta have a guy that can go get you one... It's the reason why we pay certain guys."
• Joe Johnson [37:37]: "With OKC having that youth on their side, Shay the MVP... they were able to pull it out towards the end."

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6. Insights on Team Management and Future Moves

Pacers' Management Decisions: Discussions touched upon the potential firing of Coach Tim, highlighting concerns over his coaching style and the apparent lack of a successor lined up. The abrupt decision raises questions about the organization's strategic direction.

Shay Sharpe's Perspective: Emphasizing the importance of having star players who can take decisive actions in critical moments, Sharpe criticized the Pacers' randomness in offensive plays and underscored the necessity of a reliable go-to scorer.

Notable Quotes:

• Shannon Sharpe [26:01]: "It's a matter of assets... It's all about assets for KD."
• Joe Johnson [54:04]: "How are you gonna fire a man and you don't have somebody already lined up?"

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7. Concluding Thoughts and Predictions

The panel expressed optimism for the Thunder's adaptability and questioned the Pacers' ability to overcome their strategic shortcomings. Anticipation builds for Game 5, where adjustments and player performances will be pivotal in determining the series' outcome.

Notable Quotes:

• Shay Sharpe [33:07]: "I'm gonna let Shay pick them apart for these next two games."
• Joe Johnson [57:57]: "We were on and we said after game one, the Knicks are in trouble."

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Key Takeaways:

• Thunder's Resilience: Efficient late-game performance and strategic adjustments were crucial in their victory.
• Pacers' Strategic Flaws: Lack of a consistent scoring strategy and over-reliance on a committee approach may hinder their postseason success.
• Coaching Decisions: Effective coaching adjustments by the Thunder contrasted with the Pacers' questionable decision to potentially fire Coach Tim without a clear plan.
• Future Games: Game 5 is anticipated to be a turning point, with both teams potentially making critical adjustments to their strategies.

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Note: This summary excludes advertisements and non-content segments, focusing solely on the in-depth discussions and analyses presented by the hosts and guest.

Transcript

[Shannon Sharpe]

This is an iHeart podcast.

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[Chad Ochocinco Johnson]

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[Antoine Walker]

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[Shannon Sharpe]

The volume.

[Joe Johnson]

OKC did what they needed to do. They came to Indiana and got a game. They're going back to OKC tied 22 thanks to a 111104 victory. Thank you guys for joining us for another episode of Nightcap. I am your Favorite unc, Shannon Sharpe, my partner and co host, Liberty City's own bingo ring of fame artery. He's the pro Bowler all Pro. That's Chad Ochocinko Johnson and the third member of our squad, Arkansas Little Rock native, University of Arkansas alum ISO Joe Joe Johnson. And joining us to break down the game Tonight is a three time All Star NBA champ, 1996 National Champion winning at the University of Kentucky, Antoine Walker. Twan, thanks for joining us again. We will get to you in just a second. Please make sure y' all hit that subscribe button. Please make sure you hit the like button. And guys, go subscribe to the Nightcap podcast feed. Wherever you get your podcast from, we want to thank each and every one of you. If you're listening, if you're watching, we can't thank you enough for your support and hopefully you'll continue to give us your continued support because thanks to you is because of you, we're able to do what we're able to do and we cannot thank you enough. So thank you again. Make sure you check out Shave by La Portier. We have it in stock now. If you can't find Shea by La Portier in a package shop or Total Wines or wherever the case may be in a city or state near you, order it online and we'll ship it directly to your door. Please drink responsibly and stay safe. Make sure you check out my media company page on all of its platforms. Shay, Shay Media and my clothing company, 84. With 84 being spelled out, that link is pinned into the chat. Supplies are limited and once they're gone, they're gone. So please grab yours while supplies last the Thunder, even the series. Shay was sensational tonight. The first 44 minutes, guys, he had two free throws.

[ISO Joe]

Yeah.

[Joe Johnson]

The last eight minutes. Last. Excuse me. The last four minutes he had eight free throws. So he was 10 of 10 for the night. Jalen Williams was 11 of 11. He had 35 points on 12 and 24 shooting. Jalen Williams was 8 of 18, 11, 11 from the free throw line. Chet, 6 and 6 from the free throw line. But I thought the guy that kept him in it, just like mah did the other night, it was Alex Caruso. He was sensational tonight. He didn't let them. He didn't. And, and, and don't get me wrong, Obie Toppin played well. They got what, 35, 16, 30, 36 points. Yeah, 36 points from their bench. But Caruso was tremendous early. Joe, let me. I'm gonna start to you and then tw, we gonna kick it off to you, Joe. Let me. Did the Thunder win this game or did the Pacers lose it?

[ISO Joe]

Nah, the Thunder won it, man. It was a great game. It was kind of teeter totter pretty much throughout the whole game. And the Thunder. I scored him by 14 in that fourth quarter. That was the tale of the game right there. Yeah, look, I ain't gonna tell y' all no lie. I was nervous over here. I was watching the game for OKC because I felt, you know, especially toward the end of that third twine, you know, Indiana took the momentum. You know what I mean? I felt like I said, man, they gonna end up closing these boys out. Cause OKC looked like they had got a little fatigue down the stretch. Well, they did. And in the fourth quarter, they just made big play after big play. And the Pacers seemed like they had a hard time scoring. And the Pacers, I mean, OKC ended up pulling it out.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Tuan, what you say? Well, honestly, I'm gonna be honest. And we gotta be honest, fellas. You know, we doing this. You saw the MVP Shay, take his game to the next level. Fourth quarter. It's the reason why he got the award. We look for those type of performances to go on a road and close a game out. And he did what he had to do, and that's what he did. He needed to even his series up, and he did what he had to do. But also too, you know, you gotta think about it. When you look at what Indiana. And don't get me wrong, Indiana's been great all year. I love Indiana. I actually have. I think Indiana can win this series. But when you're doing it by committee, it makes it hard when you don't really have that guy.

[ISO Joe]

I know.

[Shannon Sharpe]

We know. We talk about Tyler Hamburger, Tyler, a lot and think that he can get it done. But they do it by committee. They don't do it, you know. Okay. See, as young as they are and the way they play, Shay has to play great and deliver for them down the stretch for them to win. We all know that. No matter how good, we know how great they've been all season. We know Williams has been great. We got no. Chad can have his moments where he plays great, but when Shay plays great and delivers, they win. And with Indiana, it's too much by committee. I don't know if you guys felt the way I felt. You just don't know who's going to make a shot. I look at the offense, it's just too random. It's not like, you know, and Joe, you understand this more. I want to be able to give it to my guy. We're going to run a pick and roll. He's going to make the best play. He's going to look to score or get the best guy a possible shot. Indiana is too random for me and that's what happens late in games and it gets too random. Well ok. See we know Shay's taking that shot. Yeah, we know Shay's going to make that shot. He's going to take that shot. Indiana just too random. And I don't want to take anything away from where they at right now. They still have a chance to win this title but when you're doing it by committee, it's tough man. In these type of games, Ocho, you.

[Joe Johnson]

Had the, the Pacers to win the series. You had them pick to win this game. What didn't you like about what you saw from the Pacers down the stretch?

[Liberty City]

Listen, obviously it wasn't enough plays. I'm gonna piggyback off what Tuan said. It's too random. It's too random. They, they can't actually run a set play and have a specific guy that's a go to guy that can get you a shot when you want to. Like, like say they do everything by committee and it really ain't. Honestly, I think the Pacers lost this game because of what the goddamn Thunder decided to do. Let's talk about identity. SGA gonna do it all. Do what SGA do. No matter what, he's always gonna close a game. You know, he ain't worried about efficiency. He gonna take them God damn shots and get his points. But the Thunder finally remembered who they are, what they've done all postseason. What they didn't do the first two games is they abandoned their bigs. And what they did tonight went right back to their big lineup. They had Shetton Holgren and Isaiah Hartenstein starting together just like they did the whole, the whole postseason. What happened? Ted had a double double and Hardenstein to have a, he'd have a great game. But listen, they won in the paint, they won in the glass and hell, they won the goddamn game.

[Joe Johnson]

Yeah, SGA is the first player since Jerry west to have 35 plus points and 0 assists in the Finals game. Caruso, the first bench player in NBA Finals history with 20 points and 5 steals in a game. Jordan, pull that back up. And Jalen Williams had 27 points. He was sensational tonight. You can see why he was an all NBA selection. Everybody think, Joe, you and I, we questioned them switching their lineups. Man, you in the finals, you got there, won 68 games. And with the exception of their Nuggets, you won relatively easy. You swept, you swept Memphis. You lose one game to a Minnesota, you have to go, I mean, you had to go seven with the Nuggets, but you end up blowing them out. And so I didn't understand Tawan, I didn't understand. Joe and I, we were talking about it. I didn't understand why they went to that small lineup because maybe they saw the success that Indy had against Cleveland too big. The success they had against the Knicks, two bigs. And they say, nah, we're not going to give them that advantage. But your advantage is your advantage. Your advantage is playing Hartenstein and Homegring together and then going to your bench because your bench is very good. These probably the two best bench teams in all of basketball and it's no surprise that they're here. I think it's a blessing and a cursed one because when you look at the Pacers because they don't have a guy that you have to key on, you don't know who's going to hurt you on a given night. They're going to have a guy that's somewhere in the 20s and they're going to have a bunch of teams about 19 or 18 or 17. Yeah, you would like to have a guy that you could say giving the ball like a, like a, like a chick, like a shape. Or you have a guy like you got with a Brunson or one of those guys, you know, one of the top players that you can give in the ball and go get your bucket. That's not what they have. What they have is a bunch of guys that's not afraid to take shots in big moments. Tonight that didn't happen. Halliburton, airball, two threes. Miles Turner, air ball to three. I thought the difference in this ball game tonight, look at the percentage that Indiana shot. 43%. This is the OKC that we're used to seeing. The getting up into them, getting the ball, forcing the turnovers. One shot and that's it. They dominated them on the glass. They turned them over and Halliburton had five turn. When he has basically more than three turnovers, it's not going to be good for them because he's a guy that really doesn't turn the ball over. But I think you have to give credit to OKC tonight. Yeah, I thought, you know, they had a 10 point lead late in the third and they end up going to the fourth with a seven point lead. But OKC erased that within the first four minutes of the fourth quarter. That lead was gone.

[ISO Joe]

Yeah, I agree.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Can I say something, though? It's always piggybacking off Shaq. It's always tough. And Joe, you understand this. And Shaq, when you're not, when you don't have a real go to guy. And I'm not taking anything away from Tyler Hamburg and obviously Pascal Siakam.

[Joe Johnson]

Two guys.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Tyrese. I'm sorry, Tyrese, Ham and obviously Pascal, two guys that have played terrific basketball and have led their team to the finals. So I don't want to take anything away from them.

[ISO Joe]

Right.

[Shannon Sharpe]

But it's a reason why it's. Certain guys get paid 50, 60 million dollars a year. There's a reason why Shay is about to sign for probably $400 million. You got to have a guy that can go get you one. The plays get thrown out the window when you get to the finals and get to these situations, especially the last six to eight minutes of a game. I want to be able to get it to a guy individually and go get me a bucket, draw a double team, get a guy open shot. And with Indiana is too random by being so random, you don't know who's going to score. Right. And I think it kind of. It kind of messes them up a little bit because they don't even know. I don't know if Rick. And Rick Carlisle is one of the greatest coaches ever coached this game. It's tough for him. I'm sure he's like, who do I go to? Who's the guy that's gonna step up? Yeah, who's the guy that's gonna actually step up and get me a bucket or draw a double team and get that. And that's. I think that's what makes it hard for Andy. Well, okcs kind of know their role. All the players know their role. They know Shay's gonna dictate the pace, especially with 8, 6, 4 minutes to go in the game. We're gonna play off him in Indiana. I don't know how you guys feel, but I feel like it's just too random. I don't know who gonna shoot the ball.

[Joe Johnson]

Yeah, well, that's why you don't see a whole lot of teams like Indiana win championships. You got to go back. You and we talked about it the other night, Ocho and Joe. You got to go back to Detroit where you had a bunch of guys, no superstar Players that you didn't know, was it going to be Rip Hamilton, was it going to be Chauncey? Normally Chauncey took it. That's how you got the name Mr. Big Shot, Rasheed Wallace or Tayshia. So you really didn't know. Normally teams win championships. They got a guy that we can give him the ball and he can go get us a bucket. You go back and look at the Lakers, whether it was Kareem with the sky hook magic, or you look at Bird, or you look at, you know, Moses Malone. You go back and look at history. Isaiah Thomas with the bad Bad boy Pistons. Most teams, Shaq or Kobe. Normally it was Kobe. They. Cause they were gonna file Shaq. But you've always had a guy that we can give the ball to and we know he can go get a bucket or he's gonna get fouled. We know that that's not what Indiana have. And to their credit, they've made the most of the situation. And we talked about this the other night. Is that because it's by committee, you really don't know who's going to be the one that's going to stick the knife in you because Pascal can get hot. And we've seen him get hot. We've seen Halliburton get hot. We saw Matheran the other night, he got hot. But right now they had this game, they're kicking themselves. They had a seven point lead and they had him on the ropes because Shay was getting. Shane looked like he was tired in the first 10 minutes of the ball game.

[ISO Joe]

Yeah, he was. He did, he did, he did.

[Joe Johnson]

And so I was like, okay, man, this ain't looking good. Seven point lead going into the fourth quarter. And OKC's like, nah, we can't go down 3:1. And even though we're going back home, we need to tie this thing up, right?

[Shannon Sharpe]

Listen. Hey, Joe, Joe.

[Liberty City]

On Tuan, I know it's by committee, but you got to understand something, right? Tuan, you say it's random, but this is what they've done all season long. This is what they've done all season long. And I think that's what make the Pacer so goddamn special in this series because you don't know who Knight is going to be. You know, sometimes Halle, Bernie, be. He's. He's up and down. But then, you know, Nemhard come out of nowhere, you know, and I really think they. The game ain't gonna go to seven, right? It gonna go to seven. And I think the Pacers, the pacers are gonna pull it off. They gonna pull it off.

[ISO Joe]

I got. Listen, I think I thought it was a hell of a game, but I thought it was in favor of OKC because of the scoring. Like the Pacer only scored. That's what OK want. They don't want it in 120, 130. See, that helps the Pacers. For me, I feel like Jalen Williams, he was like, I know Shay had 35, but I think Jalen was more the MVP because he kind of kept a minute and he was aggressive throughout the whole entire.

[Joe Johnson]

Absolutely. I totally agree.

[ISO Joe]

He was getting into the TA defense, putting the pressure on the Pacers to foul. He was scoring. I thought he done a great job tonight in keeping him in the game. And in the fourth quarter, I thought Shay came through and put his stamp on the game, man, it was definitely a tight, close, niche game. But with okc, you know, being having that youth on their side, I felt like. And having Shay the mvp, you know, they was able to pull it out toward the end.

[Joe Johnson]

I think the thing is also, Tuan, and let me know what you think about this. The officiating down the stretch, the last. The first 44 minutes, Shay only shot two free throws. The last four minutes, he shot eight free throws. How many free throws did he shoot? The last four? Because I think. But they turned the ball over. I mean, on a drill, on a handoff. Miles Turner tried to hand the ball off to Halliburton. Dort steals it. And we saw them turn the ball and they didn't have a whole lot of turnovers. It's when they had the turnovers. All turnovers aren't created equal. Like in football. Ocho, we talk about this all the time. If you turn the ball in the over in the fourth quarter, first quarter, it's a lot different than turning it over in the fourth quarter, Especially if you're up a score or. Or you down a score now you give them the possession back and you don't really have a whole lot of time to make that up. And so when you're turning the ball over like Indiana was in the fourth quarter, look at what you did now. A lead, now you don't even get a shot up at the rim. They get down, they get two.

[Shannon Sharpe]

But, I mean, you make a great point, Shannon. That's a great point. But this is the difference between two different teams. You got an MVP on one team where everybody knows their role. We're going to go through Shay. Shay's going to create eight. Whether you Take the shot or give somebody else a shot. When you talk about Indiana, and I say this again, and I don't want to take anything away from my own people think I'm hating or thinking they're not great. The way they play has been terrific all year. But when you do it by committee, it's always tough because now you're not. You have to. This is the reason why, and Joe relates to this, it's the reason why guys make 50, 55 million a year, 60 million a year. It's the reason why you pay these certain guys because you don't want to do it by committee late. You want to go to your best player and whether he gets double teamed, make a pass or he's taking a shot when Indiana is too random. How many times we've been watching this series, we don't know who's going to score for Indiana. I mean, think about that. We don't know who's going to score for them late. When it gets to six minutes, under six minutes, we don't know. The best game I thought they played is when Hollenberg took control, when he actually took control and control the pace and when he takes the shot. And I'm not saying you get to the finals. So it's hard for me to question their style and the way they play. But when you get to this point in this game, you gotta have a go to guy that you give it to that could create a double team or could create his own shot. And when I look at Indiana, they don't have that. No. And OKC's too good defensively. You're not going to beat them just one on one, right. You have to make an extra pass. Somebody has to make an extra move. You got to have some guy with a skill level that's going to score. And to be honest, if I was going to make that decision on Indiana, I'm giving it to Pascal Siakam and moving out the way I know they live and down with Hollenberg making decisions late. I'm going to give it to him because he's my best one on one player and I'm going to give it to him. You got to simplify the game late. It's not about that. I saw Joe, you've been in situations, you get the ball late, you don't need no help. Nah, you don't need no help. I played with a great one on one player, Paul Pierce and I, I thought I could score, but Paul, he don't want me on this side. He Want me getting out the way right when Indiana is too random and by being so random, that's the reason that they in the position that they in right now. You lose a game for your home floor, they played good enough to win tonight. You don't want to lose that game. It's going to be tough for them now. I don't want to count them out. You know, things happen. It's two, two. Anything can go that way. Injuries play a part. Guy can have a bad night. So I'm not going to predict the series right now, but Indiana got a little soul searching to do if some other guys got to step up or Hallelberg is going to have to live and die with him taking 25, 30 shots or being aggressive and saying, hey, I can go home at night. Hey, I was aggressive. I didn't have it. But you cannot play the random basketball with all these different guys thinking they can have. I think they may have four or five. They may have six guys in double figures. And that's cute some nights. In most NBA nights, five guys. That's cute. That's cute in most nights. I'm not gonna lie to you. It's good. You get five, six guys. I'm sure coaches love it, but this is the reason why we pay those match contracts right now. It's the reason why you give guys 40, 45, $50 million a year to show up. Right now. I don't know who that guy is from Indiana. They may not have that guy. Hey, but somebody gonna have to do it or Shay gonna pick them apart for these next two games.

[ISO Joe]

A tornado. Oh, when you, when you look at this game, I thought Indiana outplayed them for three quarters.

[Joe Johnson]

They did.

[ISO Joe]

I thought they outplayed them for three quarters. And in that fourth quarter, I felt, you know, okc, they knew what they had to do to win. They outscored them by 14. So it lets me know you seen air balls, you've seen block shots from okc like they really locked down and then, you know, you got your best player getting to the line, getting free throws. They took the momentum away from Indiana in that fourth quarter. Man, it seemed like the air just went out in that building. But I, I agree with T. I thought, I thought Indiana played well enough to win. They just got out play in their fourth corner. It was Tita Tyler from the first, second, third, and in the fourth, you get outscored like that. Yeah, okay. You can't, you can't beat them like that.

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[Chad Ochocinco Johnson]

Off time at my house, there are a few things that are must haves on my checklist. My fellow friends and fans. Check My favorite jersey. Check an iconic drink that's a fan favorite. Check Hypnotic can turn any cocktail into an iconic creation. With its game changing color and tropical flavor, Hypnotic should be in everyone's starting five. I consider Hypnotic the point guard of my game day roster because not only is it versatile, like having it on the rocks or as a base for cocktails, and it also finishes smooth and just like the banners in my stadium. Letting people know that we take championships seriously. Having Hypnotic at my watch parties lets people know that I also take quality seriously since it's crafted with high quality ingredients for a championship level drinking experience. So the next time you need a break from the action with a distinctive timeout, look no further. Grab a bottle of Hypnotic and make your next basketball watch party iconic. Enjoy the vibrant taste with friends and turn every game into a memorable celebration. Hypnotic where every sip is a slam dunk. Hypnotic Liqueur Bardstown, Kentucky 17 alcohol by volume Hypnotic reminds you to think wisely, drink wisely.

[Joe Johnson]

But you remember, guys, if we go back and look at Indiana this entire postseason in clutch situation, they've been great. Look at them when they played the Cavs, they were great. Look at them when they played the Knicks, they've been great. And even the first two games when the games were closed, game one, game three, look at how they prevail tonight. I thought they, you know, and for Team OKC, had 10 assists. Let that sink in with the last time you ever played on a team that in the NBA game only had 10 assists in 48 minutes. And your MVP, your starter didn't even have. He didn't have a assist.

[ISO Joe]

Yeah, he did.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Because you know what, and go back to what I said though, Shannon. This game is go time. This ain't about the others.

[Joe Johnson]

It ain't about nobody passing, huh?

[Shannon Sharpe]

No, it's about the mvp. Who we talking about? The fourth quarter, who took control of the game. It's the reason why he got that reward. It's the reason why we named him the MVP of the NBA. It's because he has the ability to close a game out. When I think about Indiana, I don't know. And don't get me wrong, I love, I love Tyler. I think he can. He's great. He's a great player, he's played great. But you talk about close it out and have that mentality. It's a little different when you're the mvp. And he separated himself tonight.

[Joe Johnson]

Are we okay in an NBA finals game with 71 free throw attempts?

[Shannon Sharpe]

Wow, that's a great question. Actually, I'm not. This is my personal opinion. I think that, you know, at Some point, especially at this level. And the way these two teams play that both teams get up and down, they run, they not necessarily considering playing for the free throw line. This is not a grinded out series. This is two teams that want to play 115, 120. So this is a game. This is actually great for the referees because they don't really have to get involved because both of these teams like to get up and down and play at a fast pace. Yeah. So it is something to think about. I mean, I didn't look at that number. I'm glad you brought that stat up. I didn't think about that. But that's something really to think about because these two teams don't really want to play in the 90s. They want to play 115, 120 if they can. So they're not worried about the foul call. They want to get up and down. So that's a great point.

[Joe Johnson]

OKC had 12 offensive rebounds. Chet Holmgren had four, Hartenstein had three. They so the two bigs had seven of the 12 offensive rebounds. Indiana only had seven offensive rebounds. They duck. They beat them by 10. They were plus 10 in the rebounding margin. They did a great job. They did a better job of taking care of the basketball tonight. Okc, OKC had gotten, you know, they were starting to turn the ball over and they really do a great job of turning it over. Jalen Williams had four, but for the most part, you know, Shea only had two. Lou Dort had one, Hogan had one. So they didn't really turn. They did a great job of protecting the ball. But when you look at them, they shoot. You let OKC, OKC shoot 47, 48 in one game. I think they were like 50% from the floor. You gonna catch hell beating them. Yeah, because it's because they put so much pressure on you. The likelihood of you shooting 50% now, we shot it. I think we saw the other night in game three, I think they shot 50%. But OKC do a great job with all those wing defenders. When you got Jalen Williams, you got Lou Dort, you got Caruso, you got Wiggins, you got Wallace, you got guys that could defend multiple, multiple possessions. So in other words, hey, we can slide. Hey, close out here. He give it up close out there. So you're going to have to be on your best behavior. I just thought Indiana panicked a little bit. They started shooting some shots that they wouldn't normally take guys in the fourth quarter because I think they can feel the momentum starting to Slip. And everybody wanted to be that guy. To hit that big three to quell the momentum, to put us back in. To put us back in. Like, hey, everybody's looking to have their moment. Talking about, hey, the Steph Curry.

[ISO Joe]

Yeah, we good.

[Joe Johnson]

Hey, don't worry about me. Don't like Stephen in the Olympics. Don't worry about me. I'm okay, right? Hey, and it got away from him for me.

[Liberty City]

It might have. It might have got away from my uncle. But I'm gonna tell you. I'm gonna tell you how it's gonna go. I told you how the series gonna go. I told you how before it even started. I told you. At this point, after four games, it would be two. Two. Joe, you owe me some money.

[ISO Joe]

Nah, you. I don't owe you. We eating right now.

[Liberty City]

I'm giving you the opportunity. I'm giving you the opportunity, Joe. I'm giving you opportunity as well to change your decision on who you have within the finals.

[ISO Joe]

Man, you got chill. You got chill, Joe.

[Shannon Sharpe]

You got chill.

[ISO Joe]

You got chill. Hey, Tuan Ocho, when you look at okc, for me, I love the fact that they didn't settle for the three. They shot 17 threes. They made three of them. They was getting to the Cup. They was putting the onus on the reference. You look at the Pacers, they doubled them in three point attempts. You know what I mean? Like, them guys was putting their head down for okc, getting to the cup, making plays, and for whatever reason, it just wasn't much resistance there. I thought Nemhardt, I thought he played great, man. For three quarters against Shay, the way he guarded him.

[Joe Johnson]

Yep, I agree.

[ISO Joe]

Look, Shay, a couple times he was like, man, y' all gonna bring that thing up, I'm gonna get down here in position. Hey. Cause that boy was on his back pockets, man. He wasn't letting him breathe. I'm talking about busting through picks, just making it work. You want to tire him out. And like I said, I think when he caught his second win because he got tired early, you know, he was able to withstand that and put his stamp on the game late in that fourth quarter.

[Shannon Sharpe]

You know what, too, Joe, I'm going to add this, and I think sometimes as coaches and these coaches get this thing, like you just talking about Nemhar playing great defense. Sometimes you got to respect who the MVP is. Yeah, I'm tired of. I'm watching these games now. And the only thing I don't like. And we saw this, and we've watched basketball our whole life, all of us have, man. Somebody else gotta beat me. I'm tired of. We shouldn't be coming on these shows talking about Shay beat us right now. We know, you know them guys are great, but when you gonna send a double? When we gonna make somebody else beat us? That's the thing. I got a problem with letting them.

[Joe Johnson]

Play one on one.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Listen, all these coaches making 4, 5, 10, 12, $13 million. We firing teams, we doing all these things. But sometimes man, as a coach, respect the player, respect this guy's skill set. He's the MVP for a reason. So if I'm a lose as a coach and I'm not the brightest guy, I never coached before in my life, but I played this game my whole life. I'm going to make somebody else beat me. I'm just going to just live and die. One thing I know as a Chicago Bulls fan, it's a couple of great shots that I always remember. That's Steve Kerr making a three point shot against Utah. BJ Armstrong making big shots. You know why? Because Michael Jordan got double teamed and he made the right play. That's we used to criticize LeBron James and I Shane, I know you love LeBron. We used to criticize LeBron James for not taking those shots. He always made the right play. Sometimes force these superstars to make the right play. That's the problem. I can't just keep. I'm not going to let Shade beat me. I'm not going to go home at night and know that I let Shade beat me in a one on one ISO where I could double team him or force somebody else to beat me. This is what we know. We've seen so many superstars, you guys know this, that we give guys high praise because they made big shots and big moments, right? And not to go at Robert Horary, but Robert Rory made about seven of them.

[ISO Joe]

Yeah.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Cause you want a double team Shaq, you want a double team Kobe, I'mma make this shot.

[Joe Johnson]

Or dream Or Tim Duncan. When you let a guy. Here's the guy. The guy got 20. He got 20. Shea had 24 shot attempts and 10 free throws. So you let so and Joe, we talked about this. And Ocho, we were talking about this. Yeah, bro, get the ball. You see game three? They trapped him. Yeah, he tried to get in that pick and roll. They trapped it. Make him get a ball up. He turned it over. They got jump balls. Whatever the case may be, stop letting him play one on one. The really every great player in the NBA if you let them Play one on one. They're going to average 30 plus. You must. You must. It's like a great receiver, Ocho. You got to double it. I don't care how great your DB is, they're going to. Hey, hey. He gonna get it now. You keep pulling with fire. Oh, man, we play what we play. That's what we do. Okay? What we do, what we do. Go have you at home to my man. And we were so close. You just come back and get better next year. Hell, no.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Hey, hey.

[ISO Joe]

Tuan and I agree with y' all sending the double, but here's one thing. You gotta take a look at where he's ISO in front, which is at, like, the top of the key, kind of like a little bit above the free throw line. That's a hard place to double, man. That's a hard place to double. So when I see them getting him in his spots, that's pretty much where he operated from tonight. You know, you pick a double there, you know you giving up something easy. So I think OKC understood that. And the fact that Shay didn't have an assist. He had it on his mind. He was going to play in that isolation, and he was going to get to his spots. Tuan, look, he taking them. He taking them bumps in the mid post, and he's still on balance, making them tough shots. Man, he made a lot of tough baskets tonight.

[Shannon Sharpe]

So you gotta think about it, Joe. We two, two. Now they going through this thing. Two, two. So the strategy you just talked about, which is right, and you right, he's getting it in the sweet spot where he can still score the basketball. But guess what I'm gonna do. Let me see if these other guys can make this shot. Let me just try one game. Let me just try one. I'm two. Two doing it that way. Let me see if these guys can make it. Let me see if a guy can step up and make it. You know, this, Joe. Everybody ain't ready for that. That Kool Aid may not get no sugar in it right now that time, but, you know, sometimes that Kool Aid don't go in there, you know, get that Kool Aid got. Put some sugar in it. Be a little bit. Some of them guys ain't ready to take them shots now. You gotta let them see if they can take them.

[ISO Joe]

Right?

[Joe Johnson]

You absolutely right, Ocho.

[Liberty City]

Yeah.

[Joe Johnson]

You look at the man had 24 shot attempts and no. And no free throw and no assist.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yeah.

[Joe Johnson]

So you knew early on, hey, y' all better get it out the glass. You Want a shot? Get it out the glass cause I.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Ain'T passing it to you.

[Liberty City]

Listen, I was gonna ask you, right. So think about this with the paces, right? When it comes to trapping, when it comes to trapping sga the amount of energy you have to exert to trap him, whether it be at half court, whether it be at the top of the key, depending on where he is on the court. Does it hurt them the paces on the offensive end exerting that much energy defensively in just one player as opposed to letting him do what he does?

[Shannon Sharpe]

No. Only reason why not? Because they score by they random anyway.

[ISO Joe]

Absolutely.

[Shannon Sharpe]

They're a random team. So they. Not necessarily. It's not like using. That's this hypothesis say a Kobe Brown or Michael Jordan and LeBron James and those guys are running around trapping. You're talking about a team that's random anyway offensively. So why not double them. I just said let's try something else. I can't feel comfortable if I'm an Indiana Pacers coach, if I'm a player knowing that we let Shay beat us and I'm not taking anything away from the other guys. But he can't dictate this pace all the way through. We watched Joker do this back to back two years in a row. Try to dictate the pace, dictate everything. I'm not letting one guy dictate the pace on me. I'm going to double make somebody else beat me. That's what the playoffs you that's what certain guys are made heroes guys that we talk about the 6th, 7th, 8th guy on the team. We be always talking about them. I've been a Chicago guy, a fan. Obviously I want to talk but I remember Steve Kerr, John Paxton, Horace Grant, Bill Winnington, Luke Lo because those guys had to make big shots and make big plays. I agree because Michael Jordan got double teamed. Michael still got his 30, his 40 had his moments. But that's why I remember those guys. They're household names in Chicago. Me living here. People love them to death because they made big shots. In these moments I gotta make if I'm gonna lose and feel good going home in the summer. I gotta be like hey that second unit, those other guys beat me. We did the best job we could do on Shay Gickles Alexander Indiana. Just like they're giving them their cake and eating too. You can't have both, right? I gotta make you learn. You can't have both.

[Joe Johnson]

They got go ahead Joe.

[ISO Joe]

We gotta give Rick Carlisle some credit though guys. Cause he's made adjustments. When we said, hey look man, you gotta switch up that pick and roll defense, he did that, turned Shay over, had him a little flustered in game three. And you know, they was able to pull up, pull the game out, I think come down game five. Yeah, Tuan, like y' all say, I think he will start sending a double. Even if he isolated the top, they may just send another guy. But I'm sure you know, Rick Carlisle has been great throughout this post season. I can see him making that adjustment right there. Just to where, okay, if he get it in his swee spot of heat about to go, he put it on the floor. We coming, we coming. So I look forward to the Pacers making a making adjustment in game five. And because it's going to be a tough one at okc, man, they gonna be ready.

[Joe Johnson]

Yeah. And I, I think, you know, Indiana had some breakdowns in the fourth quarter. You saw Chad get a put back dunk. They got a couple of put backs in there because the rotation wasn't what it would needed to be. And you have a lapse and that, you know, you get fatigued or you see feel the momentum slipping away. But you've got to stay focused. That's the thing about in sports when the rubber needs to meet the role. If it's late in the ball game, say the last five or six minutes in a football game, the last five minutes in a basketball game or whatever the case may be, you've got to maintain a level of focus because a momentary slip could be the difference in winning and losing a ball game. And I thought Indiana had some lapses in that fourth quarter late in the ball game. Chet, get a put back, don't. Caruso got a rebound and but like I said, I thought Caruso tonight Caruso had his math moment like Mathurin had his 27 in game three. In one game, I thought Caruso was really the difference, especially early. He didn't do a whole lot late, but early in the ball game he was sensational.

[ISO Joe]

Hey, look, I ain't think Hardenstein played great, but he played well enough. Like we say with that big lineup, especially in that fourth quarter. Down the stretch, they got some easy extra second chance points.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yep.

[ISO Joe]

And that's what he was talking about. You play that small ball, Tuan, you don't get them, you don't get them extra them second chance points. I thought Hardenside had a couple tip outs to where they tipped it back out to where they got a second opportunity and they scored on them, on them Baskets.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yeah. And my last thing I'm going to add to Joe into this situation, just so you can hear me out on this, as a guy who played, and we played against a guy, Dirk NOWINSKI, in the 2000, in the finals in 2006, it kind of reminds me of a, you know, of a Shay and the way their team is kind of constructed as far as ISOs and scoring tools. Yeah, but what we did with them, what we did with Dirt is he saw Udonis Hasm, who was probably the best defender on him. He saw James Posey, our garden and myself, Zogaard. So you get four or five different defenders on that guy. It's a different look. We didn't stop Dirt. I would never be the first, I'd be the first to admit his numbers speak for itself. In the finals against us in 06, we didn't stop him, but we gave him different looks. So I make that point to say, stop giving Shay the same looks. Double him a little bit. Get it out of his hand sometime now, force him to do something else. Shay's not a great three point shooter, you know what I'm saying? Make him shoot on threes, sag on him a little bit. I just hate when you keep doing the same thing and thinking that now you got to change it up. Put some thought in his mind. He may have to change his game up a little bit. But he knows right now, he knows every sweet spot he get into. He knows when you're coming. You're not giving no doubles. Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, the greatest players that will play this game has got double team. Why all of a sudden? Shane don't get double team for a reason. Well, you're giving up 120, Shay. Yeah, if I'm giving up 120, I might as well double, man. If they make open three, they make open three, I might as well double. We playing in the 120s anyway. I'm gonna play. I'm trying to play that way, so why not double respect the man for being an mvp? He didn't win the award overnight. He earned it. He was the best player in the league. He could have won it two years in a row. The dude's on the road. You gotta respect what he's doing right now. And let's double him and make somebody else beat me. And until Indiana makes that commitment, they probably not gonna get out the series.

[ISO Joe]

Yeah, right.

[Joe Johnson]

All right, we're gonna move on. Josh Hart issued a warning about those. Talking about Thibodeau. He said all Y' all talking trash about fibs. Lame as hell. A different direction was taken, but y' all should be appreciative for what he did for the team and the organization. What I didn't understand, and it's baffling to me, and I said this. How are you gonna fire a man and you don't have somebody already lined up? You go fire a man and then you talk about you wanna go talk to other people, people that already got jobs, they not gonna let you. They're not gonna let you talk to their coach. It's like, me, I'm gonna sell my house, but I ain't got no place to stay. What the hell? But damn, Ocho, I need to have. Hey, I got a tip. Houses. I got something already lined up. This looks so bad. If the Knicks knew how bad they look currently. Because now you're asking for permission. Can we talk to Jason Kidd or can we talk to Ahmed? Can we talk to this one? Can we talk to that one? No, no, no. Now, you spent your attention, and it seems like Brown, Mike Brown, or Taylor Jenkins, who was at the. At the Grizzlies, they seem to be the number one contenders. This is a bad. Look, I'm not saying. Look, you can say whatever you want to say. Okay, Maybe Tim's need to go. He's grinding his guys down too much in the regular season. But at least have a plan. Okay, we're going to get rid of Timbs. This is who we want. But you probably want to have somebody lined up that doesn't have a job, because the likelihood of somebody. I made Doka was in the playoffs. They had the number two seed.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yeah.

[ISO Joe]

Yeah.

[Joe Johnson]

So I'm just. And Jason Kidd is like, hold on. Yeah, I like the Knicks, but we gonna get Kyrie back. I got Anthony Davis, and we gonna have the number one pick in Cooper. Flag why I want to go.

[Liberty City]

No, it don't. It don't make sense.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Go ahead.

[Liberty City]

Hey, Tuan. And I mean T. Uncle and Joe. You gotta think about it, right? This is the player move, though. This is the player move. The players. Someone had to say something to the folks upstairs, the upper management, about Tibbs. Again, you hear all the time about him grinding his players in the regular season, in the postseason and playing too many minutes and them tying themselves out and not really being able to play towards the end of games. Because most of the time in business, when it comes, when you're going to fire a coach, you already have somebody. You already have a successor in mind and in order before you even fire somebody most of the time. I know I'm not tripping. In football, it's the same way. If you the head coach, you already know who the next person gonna be. Now, you don't say anything publicly, but behind closed doors, you've already made the call and you already got your I's dotted and you got damn T's crossed before you fire anybody.

[Joe Johnson]

You absolutely right. This ain't college. Tuan, before you go, you know, in college sports, they do this all the time. Guy, fire guy. Oh, let me go talk to somebody from Texas. Let me talk to somebody from Alabama. Let me talk to somebody from LSU or Notre Dam. And you can offer him 10, 15. But you don't see that in pro sports. You don't see somebody saying, okay, John. I mean, it's happened. Hasn't happened in football. You remember John Druden? He had a job and he ended up going to Tampa. Coach Belichick had a job with the Jets. He goes to the Patriots. I think Herm Edwards had a job and he ended up going elsewhere. But it doesn't happen in pro basketball. So I agree with you, Ocho, like you said, if I'm going to get rid of something that need, don't I need to have something already lined up? Oh, I'm selling my car. You already got a car? No, I ain't got no car. I just go, I'm gonna figure it out once I get rid of what? You gonna figure it out once you get rid of yours. You figure it out before you get rid of yours. So that way it's a seamless transition. Go ahead, guys.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Let me just say this. I think when you look at this, guys, and I know you guys have many comments on this I've been on, but you look at a city that probably thought their team was better than what they were, and you're looking at an organization up top that probably thought their team was better than what you played against. The Boston Celtics team that lost Jason Tatum. Let's not devalue how good Jayson Tatum is. So you was able to get by and put yourself in position to possibly get to the finals. That's cool. But the problem is the Knicks roster is not good enough to win an NBA title. Let's be honest. That roster is not good enough to win it. It's not Tibbs fault. I think Tibbs has done an excellent job to be able to get what he got out that group, to make them relevant, to make them a really good playoff team. But now you get the buzz, the fans coming to the game. You got the celebrities, you got all the stars coming to the game. Everybody's starting to think about championship. You have to build towards that. You gotta have the right personnel. And that's unfortunate that Dolan don't understand that. You put a good product on the floor, you've gave the Knicks fans something to cheer about. Appreciate that part. If you able to get over the hump, you get over the hump. But you don't have the right personnel to get over the hump. You still got the Pacers, the team that's played you last three, four years. The Pacers team has been together four years.

[Joe Johnson]

They beat you last year.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yeah, yeah, they've been together four years. The Boston stuff is that Jayson Tatum don't get hurt. We probably talking having a whole different conversation right now. So you gotta put that in perspective. That's why I don't like the fact that they fired Tibbs. Cause it wasn't his fault. He's done a great job with the group that he's had. And that's been him. I saw him in Chicago. I saw first half. I saw him have a great point guard and Derrick Rose ride that point guard and build that team around defense and a great point guard. He did the same thing in New York with Rick Brunson and what they built there. And they're successful. They're a very good playoff team that's going to compete night in, night out sometimes. And Joe can contest this and even Ocho, you can test this too. As athletes, we obviously want to win a championship. That's the goal. But sometimes you just not there. You just can't get over them. You need a little luck. Yeah. You need to stay a little injury free. You know what I'm saying? You got to stay a little injury free. You have to have a little luck. But sometimes it just don't happen. The good organizations stick with you and build on that. That's why I like the Pacers. Because that group has been together now three, four years. That's what make the Indiana paces kind of special. Because that's why I root for them. Because they one of the few organizations that stuck with their core guys and giving them a real chance to see if they can actually get it done. And they're in the finals right now. 2. Two with a chance to get it done. The Knicks is. That's a bad decision. That Tims is a great coach. He has his question marks on how he rests guys and how he. Obviously he wears Guys out. But besides that, he don't do number win. I was in Chicago. He do number one in Chicago, and he has done number win in New York. I don't know why the man loses his job. Stop putting championship on everybody. You gotta have the personnel to win a championship. You gotta have the personnel, man.

[ISO Joe]

I think they felt they had to make a decision, fellas, you know what I'm saying? Considering the fact that they lost to the Pacers two years in a row, you know, they felt like they had to make a move to, you know, maybe light some fire into some guys. Cause for me, I felt the Knicks had. I felt they got a pretty good team now. They ain't deep. They ain't no deep team. But when you ananobili and what bridge bridges, I feel like those dudes gotta do more. You know, with Brunson, you know, kind of holding the ball for so long, I think you. You depend on them for so much that, you know, those guys really don't have rhythm. They don't have no rhythm and continuity outside of playing hard and playing good defense. So I felt. The Knicks felt, man, we done lost to this team two years in a row, and we got to do something. We got to make a move. And. And y' all know the players make a lot of money. So you know who going to be the first one to go? The coach got to go first.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yeah.

[Joe Johnson]

Yeah. The problem that. The Knick. You know what the problem. The Knicks had expectations. Yeah. Dame Lillard towards Achilles. Okay? So now there only one guy that can beat us in Milwaukee. Jason Tatum goes down. So now it's smooth sailing. We got the Indiana Pacers and we're home. So we should be able. So once they. Because ain't nobody had the Knicks going to the NBA Finals at the start of the Eastern Conference playoffs. Nobody. But what happened was you get Dame goes down. You get Jayson Tatum goes down. Indiana beat Cleveland. The Knicks beat Boston. Oh, we got the paces. And so now the expectations is exponential. And so now when it doesn't happen, oh, it's Tim's fault. It's Tim's fault. But damn, he did a great job to get y' all there. And then you don't have a backup plan. You don't. Let's just say, for the sake of argument, they wanted to move in a different direction. And they said, well, we were thinking about this the whole season, and we're not gonna let go into the Eastern Conference finals deter us. Who's gonna be your coach?

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[Chad Ochocinco Johnson]

Off time at my house, there are a few things that are must haves on my checklist. My fellow friends and fans. Check my favorite jersey. Check an iconic drink that's a fan Favorite check Hypnotic can turn any cocktail into an iconic creation. With its game changing color and tropical flavor, Hypnotic should be in everyone's starting five. I consider Hypnotic the point guard of my game day roster because not only is it versatile, like having it on the rocks or as a base for cocktails, it also finishes smooth and just like the banners in my stadium. Letting people know that we take championships seriously. Having Hypnotic at my watch parties lets people know that I also take quality seriously since it's crafted with high quality ingredients for a championship level drinking experience. So the next time you need a break from the action with a distinctive timeout, look no further. Grab a bottle of Hypnotic and make your next basketball watch party iconic. Enjoy the vibrant taste with friends and turn every game into a memorable celebration. Hypnotic where every sip is a slam dunk. Hypnotic Liqueur Bardstown, Kentucky 17% alcohol by volume. Hypnotic reminds you to think wisely. Drink wise.

[Joe Johnson]

If Dallas projects and kid, okay, you gotta, you got, you gotta. Hey, got no problem if one of the coaches that you're trying to get an opportunity to talk to gets fired. Okay? What happens if they don't? Who is your coach, man?

[ISO Joe]

It's some other good veteran coaches out here. Cause obviously that's what they looking for. Some guy who's been around, some guy who's won. And there's a few of them out here, man, and I'm sure they'll find somebody. But yeah, to be looking for guys who are already in great coaching situations. Hell, I wouldn't be trying to lead neither.

[Joe Johnson]

But see, you say there are great coaches out there. If the Knicks wanted those guys, they would have never asked for permission to interview somebody that already had a job. Because if you believe somebody's already available. Hey, you believe somebody's available, I don't need to talk to anybody else. What I'm looking for is right there. I'm not gonna have to give up draft compensation and I'm not gonna have to pay overpay because who if Tron. If you got a job, what's the situation? What makes you think I'm not leaving my job unless I get assurances you'll have to give me a contract before I leave. No assurances. Now I take this, I say yeah, I interview, they grant me position, give permission to go interview for the job. I don't get the job in the team that I left. And now we good. We going in a different direction now.

[Shannon Sharpe]

You.

[Joe Johnson]

No, no.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Hell no. Hey, Shannon, Joe, Chad. Let me just tell you this. We wasn't there. We Weren't in the room. I could just imagine being in the room. You got Wes, Leon, Rose, all these different guys in the room. If y' all mastermind, y' all come up, we need to fire Tibbs. It's something wrong. That's what those guys thought about. And like you just said, you just made a valid point. You don't have another coach already lined up. It ain't the coaching. Tim's got you over the oven. He built the culture. He started a culture there. So why would you take him out of the spot that he's in? Sometimes you got to look at your personnel. Don't get me wrong, I think the Knicks are a very good team. Do I think they're a championship team? No, absolutely not. But they are a very good team. But I'mma also say this. And Joe, you can you understand this? Your best player is 6:1.

[ISO Joe]

It's going to be hard to.

[Shannon Sharpe]

And I'm not saying that your best player is six one.

[Joe Johnson]

Yeah, you got to win a championship. There must have been two guys.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Steph Curry is one of the top 10 players to ever play the game. We're not talking. We're not talking about him.

[ISO Joe]

Right?

[Shannon Sharpe]

We talking about Rick Bronson, who's a very good player, who to me is a Hall of Fame player. He is a Hall of Fame player. I got all the respect for Rick Brunson. But your best player is Rick Brunson. Karl Anthony Towns is a great number two or number three. Yeah, they tried the ones with him in Minnesota. He's a great number two or number three. And I like the way Karl Ethan Towns has played since he's been a Knick.

[Joe Johnson]

But no, you like the way he played the last couple of games, getting to the ground. No, he hovers too much around the three point line, Tuan.

[Shannon Sharpe]

He does. But Shay, you gotta realize this. You gotta bring your expectations to real. This was most of these teams. You gotta have real expectations. You building something there. You're building a situation where you're going to be able to compete maybe for the next five or six years and get your fan base something to cheer about. Do that. Tim has did that. You got to do that sometimes. You can't cut. He's built a culture there. Give that man a chance to. To continue to build and add a piece or two. Your best player can't be 6:1. Man. I'm just trying to tell you that's what they.

[Joe Johnson]

Gave up. It was. It wasn't TF that gave up five first round draft picks for Mikhail Bridges.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yeah.

[Joe Johnson]

So now you really don't. So what, what am I gonna, what am I gonna try? I mean, you say, well, I want this guy, I want that guy. You don't have draft capital and so you wanna try to keep your core together. You wanna probably try to keep OG you probably wanna try to keep Josh Hart because he's your Swiss army knife. He's the guy that does it all. He play defense, he can assist, he can rebound, he could score a little. You're not counting on him to go give you 20 a night. But if he can give you 10 to 12, 10 to 14, he gonna give you six or seven rebounds. He's gonna give you six, seven, eight, nine, 10 or six. Sometimes he'll so. And you want OG but you don't. You're not deep. You got five guys and you probably, you normally go too deep off the bench. You go, Miles, you go Miles McBride and you go, and you go, Mitchell Robinson. That's really all you go. Now you let Landry Shammy play a little bit late in the ball game, late in the series, but that's not. You only play five guys. You don't have a deep team. So and so when. And like you said, guys, you're six one guy. Well, you talk about, well, Steph Curry was only 6:2, but Steph Curry is transcendent. Steph Curry is a historically great player. Isaiah was the leader of his team. But you can't just say just because somebody can score 30 on a given night, so, oh yeah, he can lead a team. It's more to that than just scoring buckets.

[ISO Joe]

I agree, I agree. I think they top five, they start in five, they can compete with anybody in the league. But it's the depth. You know, when you don't have a depth like a lot of these teams have out of like an Indiana, like a okc, somebody who can come off your bench and win you a game or two in the postseason. Tuan Ocho, unc. It's going to be hard to win because you put so much pressure and onus on Jalen Brunson. Cat, you know, you put so much, you put so much onus on those guys for them to come out and be consistent every night to give you 30 plus points just for you to win a game. And I think that's tough for them. So I think as far as depth wise, they gotta bring them guys some help, man. Some guys that can come off that bitch and affect the game in a different way.

[Joe Johnson]

Well, we knew after game, well, Let me just go after this. Joe and Ocho, we were on and we said after game one, the Knicks are in trouble. You got 43 from Brunson, you got 36 from Carl Anthony Towns, and you still lost. And I asked the question, I say, so what's the likelihood that they could score 40 plus and 30 and over 35? And because if you could get that many, think about how many points you got from your two big guns. And they shot a great percentage. They were very, very efficient. And you lost. If they gave you anything less than that, there's a great likelihood you were going to lose this series. And so I'm not surprised they lost this series, considering Game one. But the question I want to pose to you, there were reports that some of the players thought that Rick Brunson, Jalen Brunson's dad, who's an assistant, had too much say, is this a move? Are they trying to get Rick with a Worldwide west or Leon Rose? Would they give that job to Rick Brunson?

[ISO Joe]

Nah, I don't think.

[Shannon Sharpe]

No, they won't give it to him. But let me ask you something. As an assistant coach, and you guys know this, we all play sports. He's supposed to have an opinion. Regardless of my sons on the staff, either, I want to take pride in my job. If I was the assistant coach on my son was playing, I still want the other guys to respect me. So you gotta have an opinion. We don't know how Tibbs felt about Rick Brunson. He played for him. He played for him when he was with the Knicks. He already know Rick. What if he thinks Rick's basketball IQ is through the roof? We don't know that he's a part of his staff. It ain't just, this is the pros, this not college, this not high school, where you gotta bring the dad in sometimes to get the kid to come. This is pros. Yeah, he probably really felt, he probably really trusted Rick's basketball iq. He probably really didn't trust his opinion. So I can't say that I'm not going to do that. And Jalen Brunson has been nothing but great since he's been with the Knicks. With his dad on the bench. It ain't too many guys that can say that that play well with his dad on the bench. Right? And he gets it done night in, night out. It ain't too many guys that can say that. That's not it. The problem with the Knicks, the Knicks problem is the expectations are too high. Dolan, your expectations High because now you got a buzz. You had a great season. Take nothing away from that. Build towards the championship. Take that lump this year. Make sure those guys come back, add a piece or two. You don't fire the coach. Come back, add one piece or two. Now you got to hire a whole new coach. And now you feel like all this. Now you got to feel like you got to add 2, 3 pieces to the bench.

[ISO Joe]

A whole new system.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Think about it.

[ISO Joe]

Now you think.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Now you. Now you. Now you really messed up. Where you could have just easily said, hey, look, we dropped the ball. We're going to be back next year. Maybe he may add another piece off the bench, maybe two pieces that can help you out and get you over the hump. You got Jason Tatum, who I'm looking at everything. If I'm a Jason Tatum probably won't be coming back.

[Joe Johnson]

Tatum's not coming back. Tatum is not coming back until 26. You could. I mean, no. And I'm saying he's not coming. He's not coming. He's not coming back this year. He coming back the 26, 27 season.

[Shannon Sharpe]

So I think all I'm worried about right now, if I'm looking in the east, okay, the pace is going to be good again next year. Milwaukee's probably. I'm looking at. I'm looking at the top.

[Joe Johnson]

They ain't not coming back, right?

[Shannon Sharpe]

So now I'm in the mix. So what I'm gonna blow up for. That's why, you know, management is bad up top. I'm about to blow up.

[Joe Johnson]

And plus, let's see. Cleveland, Cleveland, I don't think Cleveland. Cleveland's not in a position to make a move. So they got, they, they coming back. Let's see what the Heat does. Obviously, the Heat's going to make a run at Kevin Durant. Why wouldn't you? But they're not going to be the only one that can make a run at Kevin Durant. Do they have enough assets? Do they have enough pieces? Or what are they willing to give up to get Kevin Durant? Now, you read that the Suns are dropping their asking price because, I mean, he's 37 and he's kind of.

[ISO Joe]

He's been.

[Joe Johnson]

He's injury prone. Is he a great player? Yes. But if you go back and look at Kevin Durant's history, he's been nicked. He's mist timed knee, ankle issues. So that weighs in. That's dropping his price. And just because Mikhail Bridges went for five first round picks, everybody gonna be that dumb. Just Because Rudy Gobert went for four first round picks. Everybody ain't gonna be that dumb.

[Shannon Sharpe]

You know why Kevin Durant can't be moved? He makes 55, $56 million next year. So he's not gonna be, you know, somebody got to take him. At 37, 38 years old, we all know KD can produce at that number. That's not a problem. He's going to give you 25, 30 points a night. It depends on which organization is willing to give up a couple of draft picks to get a KD at a younger age. I mean, at an older age. I'm sorry. At an older age. That's all it comes down to. He's going to produce. KD is going to be there. He's a, he's a baller, he's a scorer. You know what you're getting with kd. The problem is his number is high. You talk about a guy that makes 50 plus 50 plus million, you gotta decide what you're gonna do. Do we wanna put 50 in a guy that's 36, 37 years old and see if we can get two years out of him? That's why he looks good for the Houston Rockets. The Houston Rockets could use a veteran guy that can score the basketball. They got some young assets and you could put with that little core they got and maybe get them over the hump. We just watched Houston in the playoffs.

[Joe Johnson]

Dominate number two seed.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yeah, when he first watched them. But they miss scoring.

[ISO Joe]

If I'm the pitch, they miss scoring.

[Shannon Sharpe]

They miss a guy to be able to go to, to get them a bucket. KD fills that gap.

[ISO Joe]

If I'm the piss, do you have.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Enough assets to move? It's all about assets for kd. KD still at that level. It's a matter of what you want to give him. For a guy who's probably got two years at the level that he's playing at right now, his number's high. It becomes a number game. Do you. What can you give up? Cause he's making, he'll make 50, 60 million dollars a year. That's all it comes down to. KD, he's there.

[Joe Johnson]

What you thinking, Joe?

[ISO Joe]

Man? If I'm the Pistons, I'm trying to add him to this young group of guys that I have with Cade and them young dogs that you got over there. I think that, I think he'll fit seamlessly over there, Tuan and Ocho, you know what I mean? Cause he's a bonafide scorer, bro. We know that now. You can say, oh, he 37, but he got at least another couple years, another good couple years in him. And playing on a team like that to where he don't have to do that much dirty work defensively, you know what I mean? He can just be smart, smooth and go out there and get your cool 25 to 32 a night. Cause that's what they was missing in the postseason.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Man. Hey Joe, look, I'm on this show right now with three athletic guys that took care of everybody's great shape guys. You guys know that KD is one of those guys take care of everybody. He gonna get two more years. That's why Bron is still playing. No, you guys are elite class. I didn't do what you guys did as far as body wise. You guys are elite guys that took care of their body throughout their care. KD can give you two years, Joe. Yeah, he can give you two years at a high level.

[ISO Joe]

Hey, think about it, Tawan. Especially playing in the East. Well, you already know Boston, I mean they probably gonna be decent still, but you know, with Tatum.

[Joe Johnson]

They ain't gonna be Boston without Tatum.

[ISO Joe]

Look at Dame, Milwaukee, Dame gone. So the one opportunity in the east, man, it's wide open.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Joe. The problem is right now with Boston. This the thing and we'll talk about this on some later shows, but you got new ownership group, they taking over.

[ISO Joe]

They finna break that up.

[Shannon Sharpe]

They gonna break it up. There you go. Shannon. I was about to say what I was gonna say. It's a business decision for them. They may decide, hey, they don't want to start off in the rear paying those type of salaries. You got seven guys on the Celtics making top dollar. Do they want to continue to pay that? I'm talking about the pozingas, the holidays, I mean even the same year and Derrick White making 1 8. You got so many guys in that team that's making big money. You don't know which direction this new ownership may go. We just saw the Dallas Mavericks ownership take control and trade away they franchise player. We saw them trade away Luka. So you don't know what this new ownership may group may come in after they pay. What are they paying? $5 billion for the Celtics without an arena. Without an arena. You gotta think about it. They don't got an arena. They may want to take care of the arena first. They might want to make sure they got an arena to play in first. So you know, these guys are businessmen. You don't know if they are committed to this type of winning. And this type of salaries with these guys. So we don't know what the Celtics are going to do right now. So it's wide open right now. That's what's crazy about the Knicks. You in a situation where things are wide open when you got two top players on the Milwaukee Bucks and on the Boston Celtics that are coming out torn Achilles, two Hall of Fame players. I don't want to break that up. What am I break the coach up. I'm going to give him another shot at this. You got to see what happens. Karl Anthony Towns was hurt. When you get 100% Karl Anthony Towns, that Indiana series may go different. I could be wrong. It may go different. But 100% Karl Anthony towns may change that series. He played great all year. I thought he rejuvenated himself. I thought he had a monster year. But you only got hurt at the end of the year. He wasn't right at the end of the year. I ain't gonna. I'm not gonna beat him up. I'm not gonna beat up on him like that. He wasn't right at the end of the year health wise and it cost him.

[ISO Joe]

Go ahead.

[Joe Johnson]

Juan, thank you for joining us tonight, man. We really appreciate you breaking down this game. OkC111, Indiana104. Thanks for the insight. Hey, game seven. Come back and join us. If you go seven and break down who won and why they won.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Oh, yeah. I'll be here, baby.

[Joe Johnson]

All right.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Appreciate taan the volume.

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[Shannon Sharpe]

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[Shannon Sharpe]

This is an I Heart podcast.