Nightcap Hour 1: Unc & Ocho react to Bengals-Commanders + Browns name week 1 starter + Joey Bada$$ Joins | Nightcap

Summary

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Club Shay Shay – Nightcap Hour 1: Unc & Ocho React to Bengals-Commanders, Browns Name Week 1 Starter, and Joey Bada$$ Joins | Nightcap

Date: August 19, 2025
Host: Shannon Sharpe
Guests: Ocho (Chad Johnson), Joey Bada$$

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Overview

This lively episode of Nightcap dives deep into current NFL preseason drama—including QB competition news and on-field scuffles—before welcoming rapper/actor Joey Bada$$ for a wide-ranging conversation about music, life at the top, authenticity, and artistry. The exchange blends classic "Unc & Ocho" banter with thoughtful commentary on football culture and hip hop, featuring notable moments of humor, honesty, and insight.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Cleveland Browns Name Joe Flacco Week 1 Starter

(03:50 – 09:40)

• Joe Flacco, at age 40, named the Browns’ Week 1 starting QB—not a surprise to Shannon or fans.
• Depth Chart Fallout:
  • Kenny Pickett recovering from a hamstring injury, did not get enough preseason reps.
  • Dylan Gabriel and Shedeur Sanders both in contention, but neither clearly outperformed the other; Gabriel played better in recent action but still unproven.
  • Browns plan to carry four QBs on the 53-man roster, rare in the NFL—fearful of losing prospects to waivers.
• Shannon On the Unusual Situation:

  “Cleveland put themselves in a bind… none of these quarterbacks really have separated themselves from the rest… you don’t want to make the mistake and let one of these guys go and have him play somewhere else after you had him.” (06:20)

• Discussion on how tricky hamstring injuries can be, referencing both Pickett and Justin Jefferson’s return.

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2. Bengals vs. Commanders Preseason Reactions

(24:50 – 29:44)

• Ocho finally joins the stream after technical difficulties, ready to defend his Bengals.
• Defense Issues:
  • Ocho: Urges optimism despite admitting the defense looked rough on opening drives (25:02).
  • Shannon: “They ran down the field on y’all… that Mike backer blew the assignment twice.”
  • Ocho analyzes missed gaps, and both hosts agree Washington’s young backs justify veteran Brian Robinson Jr. being on the trade block (26:05).
• Key Play Critique:
  • Bengals defense jumps offside on 4th and 3 after obvious motion, leading directly to a touchdown.
  • “Everybody in the stadium knew they weren't going to snap that ball… these kind of plays will get you beat.” – Shannon (27:15)
• Bengals’ Offense:
  • Ocho and Shannon praise Joe Burrow’s efficient but cautious play, spotlight O-line protection needs, and admire backup Jake Browning’s poise.
  • Banter about journeyman QB Josh Johnson, joking about his many NFL jerseys (29:29).

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3. Titans Training Camp Scuffle: Cam Ward vs. Jeffrey Simmons

(08:11 – 12:25)

• Rookie QB Cam Ward shoves star DT Jeffrey Simmons after a TD celebration, triggering a brief altercation.
• Shannon sees it as unusual for a starting QB:

  “In my 14 years, I’ve never seen a defensive lineman do that to a starting quarterback… that must have been brewing.” (12:25)

• Both agree: protecting the starting QB is paramount; O-linemen responded as expected by rushing to Ward’s defense.
• Shannon reflects: “I’m glad nobody got injured… but this is a different time now." (12:25)

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4. Classic Coaching: Jimmy Johnson Starves Cowboys Post-Defeat

(13:35 – 20:45)

• Shannon recounts Jimmy Johnson’s old-school tactic: denying the team in-flight meals after a loss, as revealed in a new Netflix documentary.

• “He said, ‘No, no meal. They don’t deserve to eat. I wanted them to be nauseated…’ That’s old school coaching, man. I don’t know if that would fly now.” (14:38)

• Explains how modern player attitudes and entitlement (and Jerry Jones’ approach) contrast sharply with the ‘90s.
• Shannon contextualizes with Dan Reeves taking away lunch after a loss in his own career—stresses the message is about effort, not just wins.

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5. Discipline in College Football’s NIL Era

(21:35 – 24:50)

• Discussion of Coach Prime (Deion Sanders) and his old-school punishments for players who hit the QB in practice (stadium runs, up-downs, etc).
• Shannon doubts whether this works in the modern transfer-portal/NIL era:

  “Some guys are already looking… you coach a kid hard, he’ll jump in the transfer portal… This is like a real job now.” (22:30)

• Emphasizes Sanders’ key message: “Don’t hurt your teammates. Last thing you want is guys hurting each other.”

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6. Interview with Joey Bada$$

(33:25 – 55:03)

a. Night Owl Scheduling and Recording Habits

• Joey jokes about fighting off sleep during this late-night recording, and pokes fun at Ocho’s Miami “nightlife.”

b. On His Upcoming Album: Lonely at the Top

(34:32 – 35:52)

• Joey describes the album as an honest account of success’s isolation:

  “You realize how much isolation you find on the other side… you gotta block so many things out to maintain that balance.” (35:08)

• Shannon: “No matter how big the bus is, not everybody is meant to ride… What’s hard is figuring out who’s supposed to be a passenger.” (35:53)
• Joey responds with his “Aladdin’s purple carpet” analogy:

  “If you got 100 on there with you, you ain’t going nowhere… I gotta keep it light.” (36:32)

c. Authenticity, Music Evolution, and Remaining True

• Joey admits to previously trying to adapt to trends but now cares less about the current soundscape:

  “In 2025… the best thing you can do is be as authentic and true to yourself as possible.” (41:04)

• On balancing artistic evolution with fan expectations:

  “Fans are fickle. Jay said it best: ‘They love you, then they hate you, then they love you again’… So you gotta do you.” (43:29)

• He makes music for himself first:

  “I make the music that I want to listen to or drive my car to or feel fly to… everyone else is secondary.” (44:19)

d. Influences, Collaborations, and Rap Culture

• Early influences: Jay-Z, Nas, Biggie, MF DOOM, Black Moon, J. R. Writer, and… Lil Bow Wow:

  “Seeing Lil Bow Wow do his thing did a lot for me… people sleep on my boy.” (47:27)

• On battle rap: Loves the culture, shouts out Loaded Lux, Daylyt, and Geeci Gotti (47:53).
• Talks about competitive “lyrical squabbles” with West Coast rappers: “Everybody wanting to show they the best.” (48:29)
• Friendships: close with JID, Cordae, A$AP Ferg, Denzel Curry, but notes adulthood means fewer daily hangs—the “fruit aisle” analogy for choosing friends (50:35).

e. Expanding Acting Career

• Joey confirms multiple acting projects are in the works, including a major film shooting in Paris (51:18), his role on Raising Kanan, and the Oscar-winning Netflix short.
• “Acting is definitely something I take serious,” he confirms (52:06).

f. Ocho’s “Spoken Word” Performance

• Ocho does an impromptu, cryptic poem; Joey reacts with playful, poetic approval:

  “You gotta keep it classy, man.” (53:30)

• Ocho: “People will hear what I just said and not be able to visualize… go back and listen to it again with your eyes closed.” (53:32)

g. Sports Fandom

• Joey admits he doesn’t follow football much (“You guys probably hate me for this… I don’t really watch football”)—but he’s “always rooting for LeBron.” (54:48)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Shannon on Browns' QB Dilemma: “Nobody wants to make the mistake and get off one of these quarterbacks, have him go somewhere else and play… when we had him in our fold.” (06:20)
• On Old-School Discipline: “That's old school coaching, man. I don't know if that would fly now.” – Shannon (14:38)
• Joey Bada$$ on Isolation at the Top: “Lonely at the Top… how much isolation you find there on the other side… you gotta block so many things out to maintain that balance.” (35:08)
• Joey on Making Music for Himself: “I make music for me… everyone else is secondary.” (44:19)
• Ocho’s Poetic Bravado: “People will hear what I just said and not be able to visualize what I'm talking about… close your eyes and listen.” (53:54)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• 03:50: Browns name Flacco starter; QB depth chart analysis
• 08:11: Titans’ Cam Ward scuffle; locker room culture
• 13:35: Jimmy Johnson’s “starving the Cowboys” story & coaching toughness
• 21:35: Deion Sanders’ classic punishment style in NIL era
• 24:50: Ocho joins; Bengals-Commanders breakdown
• 33:25: Joey Bada$$ joins; music, art, and authenticity conversation
• 51:14: Joey discusses acting career, current projects
• 52:42: Ocho’s spoken word, Joey’s reaction
• 54:24: Joey on sports fandom: LeBron over football

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Summary

This “Nightcap” episode packs football preseason intrigue, classic locker-room tales, and a soulful music industry interview into one fun, insightful hour. Shannon and Ocho's football break-downs swing from practical advice (never mess with your starting QB) to generational divides on discipline. Joey Bada$$ brings an artist’s perspective—reflecting on why “lonely at the top” isn’t just a catchphrase, navigating authenticity, and sharing camaraderie that spans both music and sports. The mood is candid, reflective, and full of trademark Club Shay Shay energy.

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Transcript

[Sarah Spain]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Jake Hofer]

I'm Jake Hofer and this is Back 40, a limited series show on Wire to Hunt, part of Meat Eaters Podcast Network. Each episode I'll be asking eight whitetail hunting pros a focused, thought provoking question about hunting and land management. How do I hunt the best part of the farm with less than ideal access?

[John Middlekauff]

Should you? That's what the real question is. Stand without good access is not a good stand.

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Listen to Back 40 on iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast.

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Check out behind the Flow, a podcast documentary series following the launch of San Diego Football Club.

[San Diego FC Narrator]

San Diego coming to MLS is gonna be a game changer because this region has been hungry for a men's professional soccer team.

[Jake Hofer]

We need to embrace this community.

[John Middlekauff]

Listen to San Diego FC behind the Flow on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Sarah Spain]

Get fired up, y'. All. Season 2 of Good Game with Sarah Spain is underway. We just welcomed one of my favorite people, an incomparable soccer icon Megan Rapinoe, to the show and we had a blast. Take a listen. Sue and I were like riding the lime bikes the other day and we're like, whee. Like people ride bikes because it's fun. We got more incredible guests like Megan in store, plus news of the day and more. So make sure you listen to Good Game with Sarah Spain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by Novartis, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports Network.

[John Middlekauff]

Tune in to all the Smoke podcast where Matt and Stack sit down with former first lady Michelle Obama.

[Sarah Spain]

Folks find it hard to hate up close. And when you get to know people and you're sitting in their kitchen tables and they're talking like we're talking, you know, you hear how we grew up, how Barack grew up, and you get a chance for people to unpack and.

[John Middlekauff]

Get beyond Race all the Smoke featuring Michelle Obama. To hear this podcast and more, open your free iHeartRadio app. Search all the Smoke and listen now. The rivalries, the marching bands, the upsets. Saturdays just got way more fun. College football is back. Think you know the game? Put your college football knowledge to the test with DraftKings sportsbook and turn your picks into big payouts. From live betting during the game to rivalry week, odds boost, and so much more, DraftKings sportsbook have everything you need to stay in on the action from kickoff to final whistle. Whether you're betting your go to team or making moves mid game as momentum shifts. Saturdays are yours to own with DraftKings sportsbook. Here's something special for you first timers. New customers bet $5 and get $200 in bonus bets instantly. Download the Draft King Sportsbook app. Use Code Shannon. That's Code Shannon for new customers to get $200 in bonus bets instantly. When you bet just five bucks in partnership with DraftKings Sportsbook, the crown is yours. Hello ladies and gentlemen and thank you for joining us for another episode of Nightcap. Y' all know me, I'm your favorite uncle, Janet Sharp, my partner and co host is having technical difficulties. Hopefully we can get him connected. If not, it's going to be you and I tonight, but hopefully we can get him connected here in the next few minutes and get everything going. But he is having technical difficulties. We are trying to get him connected as we speak, but hopefully we'll get an opportunity to talk to Ocho and Ocho will be able to chime in in just a little bit. Please make sure y' all hit that subscribe button. Please make sure you hit the like button. Guys, do us a favor. Go subscribe to the Nightcap podcast feed wherever you get your podcast from where you we'd like to thank each and every one of you for your support and your continued support. Because without you, Nightcap doesn't exist. We're not as popular as we are. It's all because of you and we can't thank you enough. My Cognac Laportier has a new drop and this one's personal. I've created a limited edition release to honor my brother Sterling induction into the Pro Football hall of Fame. It's not just a bottle, it's a tribute. It's a celebration of a legacy. And once they're gone, they're gone. The hall of Fame edition is officially live. Just head over to laportierconjac.com to grab yours while you still can. Don't miss a chance to own a piece of history in a very, very special moment. Excuse me. Please go follow my media company page on all of his platforms. That's S.H. shay Media and my clothing company, Eighty Four. With Eighty Four being spelled out, that link is also pinned in the chat. Okay, what was we suspected all along? Kevin Stefanski said he was going to name a starter today and he did. And just like Ocho and I surmise is Joe Flacco, the 40 year old we making his making his first week one start since 2022 when he's with the Jets TBD on the rest of the depth chart. Kenny Pickett has not played since he tweaked that hamstring. Dylan Gabriel got the start on Saturday. Shador did not play because of an oblique injury. He started the first regular preseason game and Tyler Snoop Hundley is also on the list. Adam Schefter said this morning, I expect the Cleveland Browns to carry four quarterbacks on the 53 man roster. Wow, that's. That doesn't normally happen. It's just, I think they're afraid that if they let one of these guys go, somebody's going to snatch them up. You'd probably like to probably, you know, cut them and then have them come back on the practice squad, but they don't feel they can do that. They feel that if they were to release Gabriel. Excuse me, release Dylan Gabriel or Shador Sanders, somebody would sign them to their active roster. And you don't want to run that risk. Guy that's been in your program for the better part of six months, a little April, since April, since the draft. So you don't want to run that risk. Excuse me, guys, but I don't think any of us are surprised that Joe Flacco got named a starter. He didn't play, but Stefanski did. The head coach, Kevin Stefanski, did say they're going to treat this as a dress rehearsal of what they might do in Week one. So Joe Flacco is going to get the start for the final preseason game and we'll see how that works out. But I don't think we're surprised. I don't think any of you are surprised that Joe Flacco was named a starter. You look at Kenny Pickett. He has not been able to do anything, any team drills since he tweaked that hamstring early, early in training camp. Obviously Dylan Gabriel was Nick the first, you know, first for about 10, 11 days. Then he came back. Shador played really well the first game. Then he got an oblique injury. He was out. And then Dylan Gabriel took it over and then he played, played fairly well. I mean, he had a pick. But I don't think either guy did anything since. I mean, look, you are where you are. I mean, some people say, well, Dylan Gabriel is played better. I haven't heard anybody say that. But some people like Dylan Gabriel and think what he brings to the table. I was listening to somebody, they say, Dylan Gabriel, those has a stronger arm, those with better anticipation. I don't know if I necessarily agree with that or believe that it's going to be a very tough decision. But in order for them to carry four quarterbacks, that means they're not really sure and they don't want to. Want to make the mistake. Nobody wants to make the mistake and get. Get off one of these quarterbacks, have him go somewhere else and play. Really? Really. When we had him in our fold. So that's what I deduced from that. Cleveland put themselves in a bind by, you know, signing Joe Flacco to a one year. I think they traded for Kenny Pickett and then selecting two quarterbacks, one in the third, one in the fifth. And you find yourself in a situation because none of these quarterbacks really have separated themselves from the rest of the guys. Pickett didn't really get a chance to separate himself because he's been injured for the better part of training camp. And so I don't know, does he start? I don't think he'd start on pup. How is he progressing, Ash? Do we know anything about how he's progressing? Be interesting to see. I don't think you put him on pup because you put him on pup, he's going to put him down for six weeks. I don't think it's going to take that much length of time. He'd be out almost three months with a hamstring injury. Wow. So we're coming up on a month. Funny that you say that because Justin Jefferson just returned to practice and he was out for 25 days, and we're going to talk about that in a little bit. But these hamstrings are very, very tricky. You want to err on the side of caution. The last thing you want to do is miss that amount of time, come back and tweak it again, because you're probably going to double the amount of time that you're going to miss moving forward. So. Cleveland Browns named Joe Flacco as their starting quarterback. They did not give a depth chart after Joe Flacco. Um, normally it was Kenny Pickett 2, Dylan Gabriel 3 and Shador Sanders 4. But I guess that's in the. In the next couple of days, we'll find out. We'll see how healthy Shador is. That oblique healed well enough for him to get some action in game in the final preseason game. We'll see. But Joe Flacco name starter for the Cleveland Browns to start the 2025 season. Titans quarterback Cam Ward got into a scuffle with DT Jeffrey Simmons and camp Cam Ward and defensive lineman Jeffrey Simmons got into a scuffle on Monday. War threw a touchdown pass to Calvin Ridley toward the end of practice and went over to celebrate. The rookie quarterback stop gave Simmons a shove before doing the trademark Zombieland celebration in front of him. Simmons reacted with a two hand shove towards face mask. The offensive lineman came running to help towards defense.

[Jake Hofer]

I'm Jake Hofer and this is back 40, a limited series show on Wire to Hunt, part of Meat Eaters Podcast Network. Each episode I'll be asking eight whitetail hunting pros a focused, thought provoking question about hunting and land management. How do I hunt the best part of the farm with less than ideal access?

[John Middlekauff]

Should you? That's what the real question is. Stand without good access is not a good stand.

[Jake Hofer]

Listen to Back 40 on iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast.

[John Middlekauff]

Check out behind the Flow, a podcast documentary series following the launch of San Diego Football Club. We go behind the scenes and explore the stories of those involved.

[San Diego FC Narrator]

San Diego coming to MLS is gonna be a game changer because this region has been hungry for a men's professional soccer team.

[Jake Hofer]

We need veteran players and we need young players. Like you're building a team from scratch and so the succession plan of long term success needs to be defined. We need to embrace this community.

[San Diego FC Narrator]

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[John Middlekauff]

Listen to San Diego FC behind the flow now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Sarah Spain]

Get fired up y'.

[John Middlekauff]

All.

[Sarah Spain]

Season 2 of Good Game with Sarah Spain is underway. We just welcomed one of my favorite people and an incomparable soccer icon, Megan Rapinoe to the show and we had a blast. We talked about her recent 40th birthday celebrations, Co hosting a podcast with her fiance Sue, Bird, watching former teammates retire and more. Never a dull moment with Pino. Take a listen. What do you miss the most about being a pro athlete? The final. The final and the locker room. I really, really like you. Just you can't replicate. You can't get back. Showing up to the locker room every morning just to talk. We've got more incredible guests like the legendary Candace Parker and college superstar AZ Foote. I mean seriously y', all, the guest list is absolutely stacked for season two and you know we're always going to keep you up to speed on all the news and happenings around the Women's sports world as well. So make sure you listen to Good Game with Sarah Spain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports.

[John Middlekauff]

I think we kind of had a conversation. We kind of had a conversation about this a couple of days ago. I wish Ocho's connection would get fixed because this is what I want. I. I wanted to ask him. I think both guys need to be smarter in a situation like this. That's your starting quarterback. You're only going to go as far as he take your Jefferson. So you look, you don't want to do anything to hurt that guy. He's the number one overall draft pick and all your hopes and aspirations are pinned on his shoulder now. Cam, that's your teammate. You know, I mean, come on and been a long day at practice. They said this happened towards the end of practice and anytime like that, you know, guys are frustrated. I didn't want to. I didn't want you to score, but you stopping my. You stopped and celebrating my face, you know, I'm not feeling too. I'm not feeling too well. That. That might be the reaction that you get, but normally teammates, I couldn't imagine, to be honest with you. Have John celebrated? Yeah, absolutely. But I couldn't imagine an offensive lineman, I mean, excuse me, a defensive lineman, doing something like that to seven. Um, I don't remember being on a team where a defensive player would do that to the quarterback, Understanding how important the quarterback is to the team's success, especially the starting quarterback, maybe the second or third team, something like that. But the starting quarterback. Nah. I have. I can honestly say in my 14 years, I've never been in a situation where I've seen something quite like what's being reported coming out of Tennessee, where the quarterback throws a touchdown pass late in the ball game, he shoves Jeffrey Simmons. I don't know why he shoved Jeffrey Simmons, but. But if you shove one guy, you should probably expect to shove back. I'm just surprised that he shoved Simmons to begin with. Maybe I shouldn't be as surprised that Simmons shoved him back, because at that point in time, I'm not looking at you as a quarterback. I'm looking at somebody that shoved me. And I'm going to shove you back. Shove. Glad he know nobody got injured. The offensive lineman did what they were supposed to do. Run to Cam Ward's defense. That's what's supposed to happen. Somebody attacks your quarterback, you. You come Hell or high water, you defend that guy, right? Wrong or indifferent, you defend your quarterback. We'll address it and we'll figure it out later. Hey, man, don't do that. Hey, you too valuable. Don't get into no, you know, no shoving matches. Don't say anything to those guys. Let them do all that talking. We don't have to worry about that. But I haven't. I can honestly say I haven't never. I've never seen a situation in my years of being around football. When I was at Denver, when I was at Baltimore and when I went back to Denver. I don't remember that happened in high school. I don't remember it happening in college. Not to say that it haven't happened. I haven't been around and haven't seen every situation that arises on a practice field or in a locker room. But I like to speak to the things that I've seen and I can speak clearly and intelligent on it. But this must have been something that was brewing for a significant time and emotions ran high. And I guess Cam Ward shoves Jeffrey Simmons and Jeffrey Simmons like, I don't know who you think you are. I understand you're the starting quarterback, you're the first overall pick, but now I'm going to throw that out the window and shove you in the face. So hopefully nobody got injured. Glad no punches. Hopefully no punches were thrown. Nobody damaged a hand or wrist or fist or anything, a finger, anything like that. And they're going to be good to go for the final preseason game Friday, Saturday or whenever these guys play and then have. Hopefully everybody goes into the season healthy and with no lingering injuries. But whoo, guess we live in a different, a different time now. Jimmy Johnson recalls not letting the Cowboys eat on a plane after loss. On the next in his Netflix show, the former Dallas Cowboy head coach revealed during a clip in Netflix America's team the Gambler and his Cowboys that he once prevented the team from eating on a meat, eating a meal on a flight home following a loss. After that loss, we got on the plane. I'm just fuming because the way we play. So the flight attendants start to serve and I say, no, no meal. They don't deserve to eat. I wanted to be naughty. I wanted to be nauseated, to be sick to their stomach when they lose because that's how I felt. Is this what's been missing from the Cowboys today? A leader that wants to win so badly that he'll take your food away? That's not uncommon. Dan Reeves, that happened to Us, we lost the ball game and he took lunch away. Like I ain't paying for y' all to eat. Y' all hungry, y' all go get your own damn food. So it's never happened on a plane. And man, you gotta realize like when you go to get on that plane because you haven't probably eaten since pre game and according to when the game was. So you know, you play the early, you play the early game, you playing at one o' clock east coast time and you get on a plane to fly back home, you haven't eaten probably since 10 o', clock, 10:30 at the absolute latest for, for one o' clock game. And then by the time you get on, by the time you get. Cause they give you an hour after the game, you got an hour to basically get from the field to the locker room, get showered, do your interviews, get to the bus, bus, get to the airport, go on the tarmac, you get off. Normally that takes about an hour, about 60, 70 minutes. So think about how long that's been. Now you're on a plane now, I don't know where, where they were coming back from to get to Dallas. Let's just say it's New York and you haven't eaten till 10, since 10. That's a long time. And now you understand why the Cowboys were how they were. Jimmy trimmed the fat. There was no excess fat in the, with the Dallas Cowboys when Jimmy played. And you see now if a coach probably tried to do that now, Jerry said, nah, let him eat. And then guess what team's gonna eat. But that bet, woo, that's old school coaching. I don't know, I don't even know if that'll fly now, Chad, y' all think that would have flat now. I don't think that would fly now, man. I think the players would lose their damn minds if a coach said, nah, we not finna eat. Nobody's gonna eat on the plane home. That's, that's old school coaching. That's, that's the way they did it in the probably 70s, 80s and 90s. Like I said, not on the plane but lunch. It happened. And you made sure if you lost the game, you gave better effort. Because I, I, I think the thing is what Jimmy said, I wouldn't, I wasn't happy with the, yeah, we lost it. I'm ticked off that we lost the game, but I didn't like the effort that we gave in losing the game. Cause you know you're not going to win every game, but sometimes the effort you saw yesterday, the bills lost what, 38, nothing. And you see McDermott had a problem. He was upset with them. So it's, it's tough. It's tough. There's an expectation that when you play, especially when you got the Cowboys. You talking about Emmett, you talking about Troy, you talking about Michael Irvin and Charles Haley, I mean, they were all those hall of Famers. There's an expectation that when you, when you take that field, you win this game. And if, even if you don't win, how you play is as important. And Jimmy clearly, clearly, but this is Jimmy Johnson. Like I said, there is no excess fat when Jimmy Johnson is your head coach. Be it Oklahoma State, be at Miami, be it Dallas, Miami, hey, you gotta get it, you gotta get it. Jimmy Johnson gonna get it at you. Whatever you got in Jimmy's gonna get it at you. So I'm not surprised that he said this. I'm not surprised because, you know, talking to some of the guys, they, they, they like, hey, Jimmy, Jimmy cracked the whip. Jimmy was not a guy. Jimmy did not bs. Jimmy was hardcore. You know what to expect. There's a lot of guys. Look, as long as I know what to expect, I'm cool. You go to. It's probably a little different if you never had a coach like that. I mean, that's all Emmett knew. That's a lot what a lot of these guys knew. So it probably wasn't a big thing. It would probably be different if you've been somewhere else. And it's not, not even close to that for six, seven years. And then you come to that, like I said, it's always easier to be tough and lighten up as opposed to lighten and then try to toughen up because guys look at you a certain way. Having Dan Rees as my coach, an old school guy that learned cut his teeth under Tom Landry, Practices were hard, training camp was hard. So I know anyone that I got after Coach Reeves was going to be a piece of cake. Ain't no way training camp and practices and could be any more difficult than what I had already had gone through for three years. But I'm not surprised by that. I'm going to make sure I watch this because I want to see, you know, you've heard a little bit of the stories, but to, to hear Emmett and here, you know, obviously talking to Emmett and we came out together in 1990 and the playmaker and I are good friends, but to hear Jimmy from his own mouth, to hear Troy and hear some of the other guys Talk about it. Coach prime is in it. To hear some of these guys talk about it, that's going to be, I think it's going to be very, very good. And it explains to you why the Cowboys had the success that they had in the early 90s, especially under Jimmy. They had a, had a down year in 94 where they didn't have a down year. They went to the NFC Championship game and then they bounced back in 95. When they get coach get time to come over from San Francisco, they win the Super bowl in 95 and it's kind of been, hadn't been back to a championship game since they went to the super bowl and won it 95, season, 96. So we're approaching 30 years in which the Cowboys have not went, gone, whatever terminology you want to use, to an NFC Championship game. That's a long time. When you talk about America's team and when you talk about some of the better players that they've assembled on that team, you look at the All Pros, you look at the Pro bowl players that they consistently have year in and year out. There's no excuse for why the Cowboys haven't gone to an NFC championship game, at least multiple considering some of the teams that have gone into an NFC championship game. So I think a lot of you guys are Cowboy fans or Cowboys haters. Want to see why the Cows boys were so successful in the early 90s and I think watching this will give you a glimpse into why, how he practiced, how they met. Hopefully they tell the story about the guy that Jimmy. I know, I'm sure they are going to tell the story about Jimmy cut a guy that fell asleep in a meeting and well, he cut one guy because he fumbled a football last game of the season. So they cut him and then they cut another guy. They cut because he fell asleep in a meeting and a reporter asked him, asked him if that was Troy that had fallen asleep in the meeting when he cut him. He said no, I'd have woke him up. Just goes to show, you treat everybody fair, but you don't treat everybody the same. That, that, that's Jimmy. Coach prime sets his punishment for any player that hits the quarterback. For the players who violate the rule. Consequences range from up, down, stadium runs, etc. This is definitely an old school, old school way of disciplined players. But do you think this style of punishment can work in the nil era where guys may transfer from one up down who we. Yeah, I, I don't know if this style of punishment worked because I think Some guys are already looking. You can't really coach a kid. Now, you coach a kid hard, he'll jump in the transfer portal. Somebody offered him $50 more than what you're paying him, and you ticked him off. He didn't get as many reps as he thought. He didn't get as many targets as he thought. He didn't play as many plays as he thought. They jump in the portal. Now, this is real business. This is like a real job. Like, I'm on a job, and I don't like my boss, I quit and go find me another job, leave you high and dry. And that's just the era that we live in. Living in. Now, you know what Coach prime is? He's trying to get his point across. The last thing that you want to do is hurt. Is have your players hurt one another. I'm glad to see our technical, Technical difficulty guy is, Is joining us. You got us, Ocho.

[Ocho]

Yeah, Boy, I'm sick in the.

[John Middlekauff]

Can.

[Ocho]

You hear me?

[John Middlekauff]

Yeah, I got you.

[Ocho]

Yeah, yeah. How about, how about, how about them boys tonight?

[John Middlekauff]

Boy, y' all defense steals from trash.

[Ocho]

Wait a minute, wait a minute. Now, let's, let's, let's, let's not do that. Let's not do that. Now, we look, we look very bad on the first R. The commanders had the ball.

[John Middlekauff]

They took their starters out, but we look better.

[Ocho]

We look better from that point on. Let's be optimistic. Let's be optimistic about the situation.

[John Middlekauff]

Oh, did you see how, did you see how they ran down the field on y'? All? Yeah, Yeah, I like that.

[Ocho]

I, I, I can, I can tell you who blew the assignment. I can tell you who blew the assignment. Who blew the mic, the mic backer, the mic.

[John Middlekauff]

He scrape over the top.

[Ocho]

He know he scraping underneath you, knowing you can't get there underneath, and all the other.

[John Middlekauff]

He tried to shoot the gap. He tried to pull a Ray Lewis on him. What are we doing? What are we doing?

[Ocho]

And they did it twice.

[John Middlekauff]

Did it twice.

[Ocho]

And the guy bounced right outside and he gone.

[John Middlekauff]

We had a conversation last night. I said, ocho, I want to see their backs. And it'll give us a better understanding why Brian Robinson Jr. Is on the trade block. Well, we see why he's on the trade block. We saw those two bags from Washington. Now, now it makes sense. I don't know how much you could speak for yourself, but it makes a lot of. A ton of sense to me.

[Ocho]

It, it, it does make sense, but obviously, Brian Robinson, we've seen what he can do. And I just saw some reports, obviously doing my little homework, talking about he runs a little bit timid, not hitting the hole, and just. Just stuff like that. I'm not sure if. If the injury history is probably a cause of that, but obviously they like the young bulls, especially Bill. He doesn't want to be called Jacob. His name is Bill. Bill, yes.

[John Middlekauff]

Rodriguez.

[Ocho]

No, no, the other one.

[John Middlekauff]

The other one. Oh, oh, Koski. Because what's his full name? The one that Jay. That Jay Daniels got the ball back for?

[Ocho]

Yeah. Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

[John Middlekauff]

Okay.

[Ocho]

He said he want to be called Bill. I'm gonna call him Bill.

[John Middlekauff]

Okay.

[Joey Badass]

Yeah.

[John Middlekauff]

I mean, 30 rush attempts, Ocho, for 185 yards and two touchdowns. I mean, you look at it, the two top guys, 17 rushes between the two of them for 108 yards. And y' all got. Look, Lovu, everybody in the stadium, everybody at home, knew the Bengals were not going to snap that ball at the 38 yard line on 4th and 3. Except you.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[John Middlekauff]

And you jumped offside. Everybody. Nobody. When they start doing all that motion, when they bring the guy outside, they bring him to the backfield, then they sprint him out there. They're not running no play, bro. They trying to get you to jump off sides. And you did it.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[John Middlekauff]

I get Ocho, we get New England, the Eagles last year, remember, on the goal line, and he jumped offsides like five times. Four or five times in a row. And. And the officials say that, you know, if you keep doing this, we're just going to award them to score. I get. Okay, fine, they gonna score the Tush push. They're gonna score anyway. But in a situation like this, these kind of plays will get you beat. Yeah. Because guess what? Guess what happened, Ocho? Didn't they go right down the field and score a touchdown?

[Ocho]

Yes, we did. Yes, we did. I want to talk about how good our offense look. Except that second series. The second. That second series with Joe Burrow and the number twos.

[John Middlekauff]

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know why he did that, Joe. Joe know better.

[Ocho]

He pulled back all the running and scrambling that like.

[John Middlekauff]

Yeah, throw that thing away, Joe, because you don't want to take any unnecessary hits.

[Ocho]

Every punishment.

[John Middlekauff]

Yeah.

[Ocho]

Outside.

[John Middlekauff]

Then he got bailed out again because O. Brown got beat. And why? Just having a horse collie. They're gonna have to do a better job of protecting Joe. But, Ocho, your offense has to look good because that's where all your money is. So wherever your money is, that's the side of that's the side of the football you really gonna have to win on.

[Ocho]

Yeah, most definitely. Most definitely.

[John Middlekauff]

I mean, look at the Broncos when we play in the 90s. TD, myself, John Zim, Rod.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[John Middlekauff]

So that's where the money was. So that's where we had to be. That's what we. That's where we had to be.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[John Middlekauff]

So. Yeah, I thought your offense, you know, Joe was. I mean, Joe was what, 9 of 14, 62 yards. Jake Browning came in, but Jake Browning, you know, he plays well when. When asked and given the opportunity. Ocho. He plays well. 16 to 25, 159, two touchdowns. Desmond Riddle came in there, threw one pass. He. One on one for seven yards, but. And they were going down the field again, and then Josh Johnson threw a horrible interception.

[Ocho]

Yeah. Oh. Oh, Josh. Well, that's my dog there, man. Good to see. Good to see Josh still out there, man. Working and working and working. I like.

[John Middlekauff]

Yeah, yeah. Hey, he. I mean, hey, he. He don't collect. He collect his own jerseys and he ain't got no other player. He ain't got no other player. Jersey, you know, you trade jersey, don't you? And I just collect my own. He got about 14.

[Ocho]

I think he's. He's been on 16 of the 32 team. 16 to the 32.

[John Middlekauff]

Damn.

[Ocho]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. I like it.

[John Middlekauff]

So, hey, so if he ever want to coach, he knows somebody. Somebody somewhere.

[Ocho]

Hey, absolutely. Absolutely. And listen, when you, when you play, when you play that long at that position, they will definitely give you a job.

[John Middlekauff]

Oh, is he signing it?

[Ocho]

Who's that? Who's that?

[John Middlekauff]

Our special guest or.

[Ocho]

You ain't. You ain't tell me.

[John Middlekauff]

I thought I sent it to you. Here he is, ladies and gentlemen. He's a generational talent and a revered voice in the modern hip hop. He announced tour dates. Dark aura tour at 25 City headlining run kicks off October 16th in Boston. The tour comes off as an announcement as it's hot. Highly anticipated new project Lonely at the top that's out August 29th. Here he is, ladies and gentlemen, Joey Badass Joy. What it do?

[Jake Hofer]

I'm Jake Hofer and this is back 40, a limited series show on Wire to Hunt, part of meat eaters podcast network. Each episode I'll be asking eight whitetail hunting pros a focused, thought provoking question about hunting and land management. How do I hunt the best part of the farm with less than ideal access?

[John Middlekauff]

Should you? That's what the real question is. Stand without good access is not a good stand.

[Jake Hofer]

Listen to back 40 on iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast.

[John Middlekauff]

Check out behind the Flow, a podcast documentary series following the launch of San Diego Football Club. We go behind the scenes and explore the stories of those involved.

[San Diego FC Narrator]

San Diego coming to MLS is going to be a game changer because this region has been hungry for a men's professional soccer team.

[Jake Hofer]

We need veteran players and we need young players. Like you're building a team from scratch. And so the succession plan of long term success needs to be defined. We need to embrace this community.

[San Diego FC Narrator]

When I was 13, my uncle took took me to a qualifier and we watched Paraguay against Chile. Pouring rain. Just watching the fans jumping up and down, I think that was definitely a watershed moment for me. Not only was that going to be my game, but it was going to be my life.

[John Middlekauff]

Listen to San Diego FC behind the flow now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Sarah Spain]

Get fired up, y'.

[John Middlekauff]

All.

[Sarah Spain]

Season 2 of Good Game with Sarah Spain is underway. We just welcomed one of my favorite people and an incomparable soccer icon, Megan Rapinoe to the show and we had a blast. We talked about her recent 40th birthday celebrations, Co hosting a podcast with her fiance Sue, Bird watching former teammates retire and more. Never a dull moment with Pino. Take a listen. What do you miss the most about being a pro athlete? The final. The final. And the locker room. I really, really like you. Just, you can't replicate. You can't get back. Showing up to the locker room every morning just to talk. We've got more incredible guests like the legendary Candace Parker and college superstar Az Foot. I mean, seriously, y', all, the guest list is absolutely stacked for season two. And you know, we're always going to keep you up to speed on all the news and happenings around the women's sports world as well. So make sure you listen to Good Game with Sarah Spain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports.

[John Middlekauff]

Man, I'm doing good. How you doing, man?

[Joey Badass]

I gotta say, like, y' all really shoot the show this late?

[John Middlekauff]

Yeah, every time. We really shoot. Yeah. Yeah, man.

[Joey Badass]

Let me ask y'. All. Y' all in la, huh?

[Ocho]

Nah, I'm in Miami. I'm in Miami.

[John Middlekauff]

Ocho in Miami.

[Joey Badass]

Okay. You see Miami, you know, that's. That's that night life right there.

[Ocho]

I don't do the nightlife. I don't do the nightlife. So I take a nap during the day so I'm able to get up, you know, to be able to do.

[Joey Badass]

Do the show. You see? You see you. You understand the program? I don't understand the program. So I'm like, I'm over here fighting sleep.

[John Middlekauff]

I'm like, yo, but you in that green room. I mean, like, you developing pictures or something. Like you work with Kodak. Damn.

[Joey Badass]

My studio room. Room right here. It's like, you know, part of my ceilings, right? Like, I had a little. A little leak.

[John Middlekauff]

But, you know, you all good.

[Joey Badass]

But check it out. I never fixed it because I was like, you know what? I like that. That kind of remind me of like the old days, you know?

[John Middlekauff]

Yeah, yeah. Keep you hungry.

[Joey Badass]

So I keep it. I keep it raw. Keep it raw.

[John Middlekauff]

Tell us a little bit about the album.

[Joey Badass]

So, yeah, Lonely at the Top is out August 29th. You know, this project is. It was. It was made in a short amount of time. I want to say this is probably like the. The fastest I've made a body of work. You know, I mean, a lot of things transpired for me this year musically, and it was really just kind of pushing my pants, you know. I mean, in a way where it's just like, you know, I'm just kind of eager to get the music out, you know. Lonely at the Top means to me is like, you know, kind of looking at. Looking around and you being at the top of your success and you realizing, like, you know, how. How much isolation you find there on the other side, you know what I'm saying? Like, I'm sure you guys can relate, but, like, being on that life journey and, you know, you're dealing with things like survivors guild and, you know, you want everybody to come and things like that, but what you find on that other side, you know, for free, for you to make it. Yeah, it's like, you know, sometimes it's a. It's an isolating feeling, you know what I'm saying? Because you gotta. You gotta block so many things out to maintain that balance, you know? I mean, so that's kind of like what this collection of music feels like for me is kind of like a reflection of where I am today right now.

[John Middlekauff]

Yeah.

[Joey Badass]

Yeah.

[John Middlekauff]

You get that a lot, you know, coming from. Coming from the background, and I'm sure we kind of all come from very similar backgrounds, but no matter how big a bus is, no matter how big a plane is, there are X amount of seats. And everybody ain't meant to fly on that flight. Somebody meant to catch the Next one. Everybody ain't meant to get on that bus. They meant to catch the next one. And so what we have to do. What's hard sometime is. Is figuring out who's supposed to be a passenger on our bus, who's supposed to be a passenger on our plane.

[Joey Badass]

You know, that's.

[John Middlekauff]

That. That's. Like, you do feel bad because you. Like you said, you've been around a lot of these people your damn entire life.

[Joey Badass]

Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, I got. I got the analogy that I use is like the. The Aladdin's purple carpet, you know what I'm saying? Like, if you got a hundred on there with you, like, you ain't going nowhere.

[John Middlekauff]

Yeah. It ain't gonna take off.

[Joey Badass]

It should barely levitating off the ground, you know what I'm saying? Like, I'm trying to go to the mountaintop. So it's like, you know, I gotta keep it light, you know what I mean? So I could.

[John Middlekauff]

Right?

[Joey Badass]

I got a sin and everything.

[Ocho]

Yeah. Hey, Joe. But how do you. How do you balance that? How do you balance that? Obviously, coming from where you come from, most of us have the same background and those that we grew up with, once we start to sin in our respective craft and whatever it is that we do, a lot of people trying to go along with us, they complain, oh, you. You hating. You ain't real no more. You're not taking me on this journey that you elf has been working to do. So how have you been able to navigate with those when you have a. When you have an album coming out, it's lonely at the top. But those that feel that they deserve to go along with you, well, you.

[Joey Badass]

Know, if I'm being completely honest and completely transparent, I think that I am still on the journey of learning how to balance that. You know what I'm saying? I think. I think it is a matter of continuing to find that balance. You know, I'm saying, like, you know, different things do it. I think the strongest thing is putting God first, You know, like, that is my grounding factor right there. It's like, you know, remembering God as often as I can on a daily and, you know, remembering that this journey is a predestined path, if you will. You know what I mean? And it's just like I am doing what I can at each given point in this journey, applying the wisdom that I can to. To make the best moves, you know what I'm saying? You know, sometimes you. You might look like, yo, could I have done that better? But you know what? That's part of the growth as well, you know what I'm saying? As. That's part of, like, reflection and all that is part of it, for sure.

[John Middlekauff]

Yeah. You're one of those old, like, now, I don't know how many true lyricists that we have when I. When, you know, and I hate. I hate saying this.

[Joey Badass]

It's not enough.

[John Middlekauff]

That's my point. Because it used to be, you know, you had the KRS ones, you had to. You had Kane, you had Rakim, you had ll, you had Slick Rick, you had the Scarfaces, you had guys that was lit, that was literally on point. And now, you know, it's different. But you want to take it back because, you know, a lot of the OG lyricists originated Brooklyn, the Boogie Down, Bronx, KRF1. All those guys.

[Joey Badass]

So Mecca. Yep, absolutely.

[John Middlekauff]

Do you feel that's what's missing from hip hop?

[Joey Badass]

I would say that. First of all, I'll say that I don't like to look at it as I'm taking it back. I like to look at it as.

[John Middlekauff]

Like, I'm taking it forward because you advancing it.

[Joey Badass]

I'm living in this time, you know what I'm saying? And there's a Nina Simone quote that, like, has always resonated with me. She said, like, you know, music is gonna reflect the times. I'm paraphrasing it, but, you know, something along the lines of that. And, you know, I always kind of stay cognizant of that because I think that we are in an interesting time, which is why the musical landscape looks the way that it does. Because as a society, we are prioritizing certain things, and that's coming out in our subcultures, if you will, like, especially the music. But if anything, I look at it as a purposeful position to be where I'm at and to represent what I represent. Cause, like, you know, in a world full of just. Just like, godless behavior, just vanity and stuff like that, you know, I try to keep my balance by spreading a message when I can and being purposeful when I can and upholding a certain level of skill, effort into my craft.

[Ocho]

Hey, when you talk about that skill and effort and being able to maintain that balance when it comes to your, you know, to being a lyricist, the sound of music in General, from the 80s to the 90s to the 2000s, obviously, to date, 20, 20, 10 to. To now, the sound changes every 10 years.

[John Middlekauff]

Right.

[Ocho]

Has it difficult for you to adjust to what the sound is at the time? Or do you just stick to your guns and say, listen, I don't care how. What it sounds like right now, I'm going to stick to what I've always done and what has worked for me.

[Joey Badass]

And in all transparency, I've definitely found myself at certain points in my journey, you know, trying to adapt, if you will, but, like, you know, where I'm at now, I think I'm at a space where it's like, I don't. I no longer necessarily care to adapt. I think what's important to me is being as authentic and true to myself as possible, because I feel like in 2025 is like, that's the best thing that you can do. Like, you know, with. With the Internet. Like, I think it was a little bit different back in the day because it was all about, like, you know, where you was from and things like that. But I think the Internet kind of allows for people to be a little bit more expressive and not be so bound by, like, where they are or where the culture is. You know what I mean? It's like we have, you know, people with classic sounds reemerge. Like you said, it's like the game changes every 10 years, but it also comes back every 20. You know what I'm saying? History repeats itself in an interesting way. So I think, you know, right now, my focus is definitely just what is my authentic voice at this time? What is true to me at this time? What do I want to convey? How do I want to convey it at this time? And I think that I use that as my guiding light, my North Star, and not like, what the landscape of the game is per se. Like, there's a small awareness of that, obviously, because you got to know the league that you in. You know what I mean? You guys can relate to that. You know what I'm saying? You got to know the playing field or whatever. But for the most part, I played.

[John Middlekauff]

My game, you know, But I got. That has to be hard, because if you do something over and over again, it's like, I wish you give us something new. And when you give them something new, I wish they get. I wish you go back to the old stuff, because I see that a lot of times guys like, man, I wish you would do something else. And when they do something else now, all of a sudden, man, I want that. Oh, I like the old stuff. So how does someone evolve if every time they give you something that you're not used to seeing? It seemed like to me that the only person that they allowed involved was Beyonce, because she went from one genre To a whole new genre and got. And got more people and got women wearing cowboy boots and cowboy hats and. And Daisy Duke still at the concert again. But when it comes to rap and other genres, they won't let. They won't let that artist get out of that box.

[Joey Badass]

It's more pitching holes. Yeah. Yeah, I definitely agree with that. I think, you know, you got to do your role in blocking out the noise, okay. Because you know what I've learned is that fans are fickle, you know what I'm saying? Like. Like what Jay said is like, they love you, then they hate you, and they love you again, you know what I'm saying? It's like they don't know what you want, what they want. So I feel like, as an artist, you always got to be doing for you, you know what I'm saying? Whatever is true for you at the time. And even if. Because I'm definitely big and big on that idea of not making the same regurgitated thing and taking risks, I enjoy taking risks, you know what I'm saying? And being experimental. Like, I enjoy when I play a song for somebody and somebody's like, that's you like that, that, that, that, that.

[John Middlekauff]

Oh, okay. Yeah, you like. Okay, you like that?

[Joey Badass]

Surprise. Yeah. Because it's like, okay, like, I've. I did something that you didn't think I could do, you know what I'm saying? It's like I'm breaking the mold that you may have over me in your mind. You know I'm saying, you know, you didn't know I could. I could go there, but at the same time, it's still me, if. If you will. You know what I mean? But, yeah, like I said, just to answer your question is short, though. You got to do for you. You know, it's funny, too, because I was just kind of having a mental thought, and I'm like, damn. Like, who do I make music for? And I'm like, you know what? Like, I really can genuinely say that I make music for me. Like, I make the music that. From my experience and that, like, I kind of want to listen to or I want to drive my car to, or I want to feel fly to. You know what I mean? And then it's like everybody else is kind of secondary. And I know that might feel. That might sound a little funny, but that is. That was the thought that I had when I made my first body of work. Like, there was nobody. There was no audience. There was no fans. It was just me and my four walls, and I'M like, this is dope. Like, I think this is tight. You know what I'm saying? So I stay. I try to stay as close to that. That place.

[Ocho]

Listen, as long as you've been in the game and all the work that you've done over the years, I understand the politics that comes into the music industry. It's just a very, very fickle, very, very dangerous industry. From a political standpoint, if there's one officer that you would love to work with that you haven't worked with, who would it be?

[Joey Badass]

I would love to work with Pharrell changing rooms because my phone is about to die telling you I was. I was playing asleep for real. But, yeah, Pharrell is definitely somebody who I've always wanted to work with. And we've crossed paths many times. We just haven't been able to.

[John Middlekauff]

Damn joy. Did you pay you. Did you pay your light bill?

[Joey Badass]

Oh, did I pay? Yo, yo. I don't. I don't think you heard. I don't think you understand. Like, it's bedtime over here. You know what I'm saying? Like. Like, lights is out.

[Ocho]

Where you at? Where you live at?

[Joey Badass]

I'm on the east coast.

[Ocho]

Okay, okay, okay.

[Joey Badass]

So I'm up in New York. Okay. Yeah.

[John Middlekauff]

Well, you had the. You. You are at the. The birthplace, the mecca of hip hop. Give me some of your early influences. Who. Who was influential to that joy? Like, you know what? I want to do that.

[Joey Badass]

Oh, Jay, Nas, Biggie, mf Doom Pack, Black Moon. Dang, J. Woo, the Damager. I was a big J Rude, the Damages fan. Who else? Even R B, man.

[John Middlekauff]

Even more new generation. Little Bow Wow.

[Joey Badass]

I was a kid in that era, so, like, seeing lil Bow wow do his thing did a lot for me because I was like, oh, I could. I could do that. You know what I mean? Yeah, people sleep on my boy. Sad. Sad deserves weight.

[John Middlekauff]

Oh, yeah. Yo, Bow was like that.

[Ocho]

Yeah, he had. He had a beautiful. He had a nice run, boy. He had a real nice run. Hey, hey, Joe. You listen to back. You listen to battle rap?

[Joey Badass]

Oh, yeah.

[Ocho]

Okay. Okay. Yeah.

[Joey Badass]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I love battle rap. You know what I mean? My man loaded. Lux. Lux. Yeah. I just had a back and forth with the homie Daylight earlier this year. You know.

[Ocho]

They like.

[Joey Badass]

Gotti is probably on my top five battle rappers as well, along with the other two names I mentioned. Yeah, I love the battle rap culture, man.

[Ocho]

Yeah, I love that.

[John Middlekauff]

So what's going on? What's going on with you in the west? Coast, what's going on? Yeah.

[Joey Badass]

Oh, we cool. We cool.

[John Middlekauff]

We had a little, you know, lyrical.

[Joey Badass]

Squabble, but, you know, it wasn't about nothing. It was just, you know, everybody wanting to show that. That they the best.

[John Middlekauff]

Right.

[Joey Badass]

You know? So, yeah, we got. We got down a little bit. It was fun, but it was.

[John Middlekauff]

I just didn't know you guys were still on that type of time.

[Joey Badass]

Yeah, yeah, Like, I mean, listen, it was all in good faith, and I'm grateful for that. You know, I mean, I made a statement at the beginning of the year, and one of my records and some rappers on the west coast took offense to it. I didn't mean offense to it, but at the same time, I respected their perspective.

[Ocho]

Right.

[Joey Badass]

And, you know, we. We pretty much just traded some bars.

[Ocho]

Like, it made a better. Made the better pin win.

[Joey Badass]

Made the better pin win. Indeed. Indeed.

[John Middlekauff]

Indeed. Do you kick it with. I mean, do you kick it with anybody? Or you. You. You a soloist?

[Joey Badass]

I am by nature now in this phase of my life. I do. I am solo a lot. But. Yeah, yeah, like, when you say anybody, you mean, like, rapper friends type of thing?

[John Middlekauff]

Yeah, yeah. You got, you know, the homies that you kick it with.

[Joey Badass]

Oh, yeah. You know, Jid is a great friend of mine. Corday is a great friend of mine.

[John Middlekauff]

Okay.

[Joey Badass]

Asap. Ferg, Denzel, Curry, like, those are. Those are my guys, for real. And then it's like, you know, I got. I got a bunch of people just scattered throughout the industry that, like, you know, I'm really solid individuals and I've been rocking with for a long time, for sure. But, you know, you know how it is. Like, you know, as a man, you get to a certain age, it's just. It's just not what it was in the early 20s and in your teenage years when it's like, you hang with people every day and stuff like that, it's like, yeah, we all got our own.

[John Middlekauff]

Like, the older I get that, you know, the older, you know. See, once you get to a certain age, you get to pick your friends. It ain't like when you, you know, you're in elementary school, junior high and high school, and everybody just around, oh, that's my friend. That's my friend.

[Joey Badass]

Right, right.

[John Middlekauff]

You get older, you get to pick your friend, and you notice you pick less and less of them.

[Joey Badass]

Yeah, that's true. That's true, man.

[John Middlekauff]

You got less time. You got less time to vet them.

[Joey Badass]

No, that's a fact. I've always heard this. The same pick your friends, like you pick your fruit. Because I be. I be. I'll be in the fruit aisle in the grocery store for a minute, like, looking through.

[John Middlekauff]

Yeah, that's what. See, that's why. That's why you got to wash your fruit when you get home. You hear what he's saying?

[Joey Badass]

He had in his hand.

[John Middlekauff]

He done thumped it. He done tossed it up like it's a tennis ball.

[Joey Badass]

Yeah, you got to watch that apple.

[John Middlekauff]

Hey, look, so check this out. You made your television. Television acting debut on a US Network. You try to do any more acting?

[Joey Badass]

Oh, not trying, brother. I am doing.

[John Middlekauff]

Oh, you doing okay?

[Joey Badass]

Absolutely. Doing. Yeah. I got some projects in the works right now that I can't necessarily reveal at the moment, but I'm excited to share them when I can reveal. Like, this really big project I'm really excited about that. Shoots in Paris next year. Probably gonna be like, you know, one of my. I feel like this could be like, you know, my real magnum opus in the film TV world, you know, inshallah. But, yeah, you know, Raising Canaan. We still got one more season to go for that. That's been a pleasure. And then I had the Netflix short a few years ago to. This is Strangers that won the Oscar. And, yeah, a couple projects in development as well. So acting is definitely something that, you know, I take serious.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[John Middlekauff]

We want you to do us a favor. You know, Ocho is a. Is a lyricist. He goes to, you know, do open. I know you remember the movie Love Jones.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[John Middlekauff]

Trey. Trey. Tory. Lorenz Tate. Lorenz Tate. Excuse me. And Neil Long. So Ocho's been, you know, going to these. You know, just open, you know, these, uh, spoken words or.

[Ocho]

Yeah, yeah.

[John Middlekauff]

So, Joy Grady, we gonna let you grade him? Because, you know, you the professor and the lyricist and. And great penmanship. So great. Ocho's spoken word.

[Joey Badass]

Let's go, Ocho. Let's do it.

[Ocho]

Hey, listen, Joey, my pen is like that.

[John Middlekauff]

Hold on.

[Joey Badass]

Say less.

[Ocho]

Let me get in character.

[Joey Badass]

I'm a little.

[Ocho]

I'm under the weather right now. Let me get in character.

[Joey Badass]

All right, bet. Do you think. Do you think Big dog.

[Ocho]

Long summer nights they all come to play.

[Joey Badass]

They.

[Ocho]

Walking across the streets Acting like a stray she has an umbrella but it's not even raining. That's it. Thank you. Thank you.

[Joey Badass]

I'm getting one of those. Man.

[John Middlekauff]

You gotta stop.

[Joey Badass]

You gotta keep it classy, man.

[Ocho]

Yeah, the funny thing about it. The funny thing about it is people will hear what I just said and not be able to visualize what I'm Talking about there's a message behind that. But unless you. Unless you in that, in that mode, in that spirit and have that vision, you never understand what I say. So you go back and listen to it again with your eyes closed. Then the people in the chat. You understand where I'm going with it.

[Joey Badass]

Then it comes to life.

[Ocho]

Bingo. Yeah.

[John Middlekauff]

Yeah.

[Ocho]

Everybody can't. They don't. They don't have my vision.

[Joey Badass]

Anybody can't go. Anybody can get on that plane. Big Dog.

[Ocho]

We just talked. We just talked about that.

[John Middlekauff]

He has a tour. Dark aura. Starts off 25 city headlining kicks off October 16th in Boston. New album drops August 29th. Lonely at the top. Joy. Badass. Stop by. Stop back by and talk to us sometime. Hey, let me ask you this.

[Joey Badass]

Let's do it.

[John Middlekauff]

Who you? Who you got this year? Who your team and why?

[Joey Badass]

Who's my team? Basketball.

[John Middlekauff]

Football.

[Joey Badass]

Football. Oh, like, you guys probably hate me when I say this, but I don't really watch football, bro.

[John Middlekauff]

Okay.

[Joey Badass]

Yeah, yeah, I'm. I. I don't know. I'm the wrong person to talk to. I don't know what's going on in football.

[John Middlekauff]

Who your basketball team. Then who you Basket. Who you? Who team?

[Joey Badass]

Oh, man, like, I'm always rooting for LeBron, man. I'm always moving for LeBron. I'm a big LeBron fan, man.

[John Middlekauff]

There you go. That's what we talk about. We're gonna get you out here. We're gonna get you out of here on that one. Joy, man, best of luck. Continue success, man. Stop back by and see us sometime, bro.

[Joey Badass]

Absolutely.

[John Middlekauff]

Sorry it was so late, but this was this one we came on after the game today.

[Joey Badass]

Next time I'm gonna make sure I get my power nap in. Like Ocho said, make sure.

[Ocho]

Yeah, yeah.

[John Middlekauff]

We appreciate that, bro. Thanks for joining us. Much love, Joy. Badass chat.

[Jake Hofer]

I'm Jake Hofer and this is back 40, a limited series show on Wire to Hunt, part of Meat Eaters Podcast Network. Each episode, I'll be asking eight whitetail hunting pros a focused, thought provoking question about hunting and land management. How do I hunt the best part of the farm with less than ideal access?

[John Middlekauff]

Should you? That's what the real question is. Stand without good access is. Is not a good stand.

[Jake Hofer]

Listen to Back 40 on iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

[John Middlekauff]

Check out behind the Flow, a podcast documentary series following the launch of San Diego Football Club.

[San Diego FC Narrator]

San Diego coming to MLS is gonna be a game changer because this region has been hungry for a men's professional soccer team.

[Jake Hofer]

We need to embrace this community.

[John Middlekauff]

Listen to San Diego FC behind the flow on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Sarah Spain]

Get fired up, y'. All. Season 2 of Good Game with Sarah Spain is underway. We just welcomed one of my favorite people, an incomparable soccer icon Megan Rapinoe, to the show and we had a blast. Take a listen. Sue and I were like riding the lime bikes the other day and we're like, wee people ride bikes because it's fun. We got more incredible guests like Megan in store, plus news of the day and more. So make sure you listen to Good Game with Sarah Spain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by Novartis, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports Network.

[John Middlekauff]

Tune in to all the Smoke podcast, where Matt and Stag sit down with former first lady Michelle Obama.

[Sarah Spain]

Folks find it hard to hate up close. And when you get to know people and you're sitting in their kitchen tables and they're talking like we're talking, you know, you hear our story, how we grew up, how Barack grew up, and you get a chance for people to unpack and get beyond race.

[John Middlekauff]

All the Smoke featuring Michelle Obama. To hear this podcast and more, open your free iHeartRadio app, search all the Smoke and listen Now.

[Sarah Spain]

This is an iHeart podcast.