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Nightcap - Hour 1: Warriors beat Rockets to take 2-1 series, Nuggets win a thriller in LA to tie series 2-2!
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- [00:00]
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- [00:31]
Shannon Sharpe
Every morning brings a fresh new energy. And no matter what the day holds.
- [00:36]
Today Show Host
We come to the Today show for all of it.
- [00:38]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
We get the best start to the day because we started together.
- [00:41]
Shannon Sharpe
Watch the Today show weekdays at 7am on NBC.
- [00:45]
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- [01:48]
Daniel Jeremiah
The 40s and free agents Podcast with Daniel Jeremiah and Greg Rosenthal has prepared you for the 2020 NFL Draft.
- [01:55]
Greg Rosenthal
We've told you what last year's playoff teams need to return to the postseason.
- [01:59]
Daniel Jeremiah
And how teams with new coaches should approach the draft.
- [02:01]
Greg Rosenthal
So as draft season comes to a close, we've got you covered. Before your favorite team goes on the clock, we'll break it all down. Once all 257 picks have been made.
- [02:10]
Daniel Jeremiah
Listen to the 40s and free agents podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [02:21]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
The Volume.
- [02:37]
Shannon Sharpe
Hello ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for joining us for another episode of Nightcap. Y'all know me, your favorite unc, Shannon Sharp, my partner and co host, the Liberty City legend, the Bingo ring of fame, Audrey the Pro Bowler V All Pro. That's Chad Ochocinko Johnson. And joining us tonight we have a very special guest to help us break down all things NBA and he will be chiming in on the Shador Sanders going 144 to the Cleveland Browns. He's an NCAA champ with the Kentucky Wildcats in 1996. He's an NBA champ 2006 with the Miami Heat. A career 17 and a half point scorer in the NBA. Three time all star Antwan Walker. Twan, thanks for joining us. Please make sure y'all hit that subscribe button. Please make sure you hit the like button and go subscribe to the Nightcap podcast feed wherever you get your podcast from. Thank you guys for your support. Thank you for your continued support because without you there can be no us. Especially in times like this. We really need your support. So thank you very much. Make sure you check out Shay by La Portier. We do have it in stock now. If you cannot find it in a city or state near you, order online. We'll ship it directly to your door. Please drink responsibly and stay safe out there. Go follow my media company page on all of his platforms. Shay, Shay Media and my clothing company 84. With 84 being spelled out, everything has restocked. The link is pinned in the chat. Supplies are limited and once they're gone they're gone. So please grab yours while supplies last. Tickets for our Not Safe for Work tour are on sale now. Eight stops are be more Philly, Charlotte, Louisiana, Miami, nyc, Chicago. And we're going to close things out in Detroit. Tickets can be found@shayshaymedia.com tour that's shayshaymedia.com tour. That link is also pinned in the chat. Guests are shaping up real nice guys. You don't want to miss this. So if we come into a city near you, make sure you come out and check out Nightcap with Unc and Ocho. We would greatly, greatly appreciate your support. We got a lot of get into Shador stuff. He finally got drafted and his brother is a free agent. He's going to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. But first we got to go with basketball. The last two games were very interesting to the very end. The first one, Ocho, y'all in trouble. Y'all in trouble. But let's start with the warriors with a 10493 victory. Steph Curry got it going. Hey, when he's off the court, they're not the same team. But he came back and they are a very different team. 36 points, 7 rebounds, 9 assists. They did all of this without Jimmy Butler. They got some timely. I think Buddy Hill had 17 points GP the second two. He came up the bench, man, and he was sensational, playing outstanding defense and made some timely threes and he really closed the game out. Steph Curry is the oldest player in NBA history to have a playoff game in which he scored 30 points, five rebounds, five assists. With five made threes, Steph Curry assisted or scored on 16 of the 23 points they had in the third quarter. The warriors did not score a single basket when Steph wasn't on the court in the first half. That just goes to show you just how valuable he is because he opens it up for so many other people, because you have to double him because he has unlimited range. Quan, you watching this game and it looked like Houston, like, oh, damn, Houston might go on the road and steal the first one. On the road, playing very, very well. Jalen Green was playing out of his mind. Shingoon DB Dylan Brooks playing well, but he got in foul trouble. He goes to the bench. What did you like about what you saw from the warriors and how were they able to pull this out after being behind the majority of the game?
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Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Actually, I really, to be honest, I like the fact that Steph obviously played great. You know, he's going to have to have a monster game with Jimmy being out, man, Buddy Hill and Gary Payton ii, man, came up huge. When those guys score the basketball, they become real dangerous and that's what they need because Draymond Grant at this point in his career is not going to score the ball. He's going to do a lot of intangibles. He's going to rebound, he's going to defend, he's going to get some steals. So they got to get scoring for Steph. When skep, you got to have somebody else that's going to help Steph out, and that's what made it great tonight to see those guys step up. You never know what's going to happen with Golden State. You know, Steve Kerr's been messing with Kaminga this series, too. Hasn't really been letting him play. So you don't know who's going to show up big, especially with Jimmy out. But huge game and Steph being Steph. That's one thing about, you know, Steph probably can win two games in the series by himself. And this was one of them tonight.
- [07:13]
Shannon Sharpe
Yeah. At this point in his career, Draymond is rich. He's never been a scorer. He doesn't really look to score. He's looking to do a great job of handling the ball, setting great picks, rebounding, defending, as you mentioned, and initiating the offense. Gary Payton, the second in the fourth quarter, he had 11 points, three rebounds, one assist. He was 100% from the floor, 100% from the three. He played exceptional in the second when he got in there. He and Buddy Hill, as you mentioned, Tuan. Oh, what'd you like about what you saw from the Warriors?
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Antawn Walker
I mean, listen, I. I like what I saw from the Warriors. Obviously, Steph did what Steph normally does. But listen, like T said, I thought the Rocker, I thought the Rockers was going to steal a game, especially with the way they were playing Steph. They had somebody running, tracking him everywhere, all over the court. Know them, young boy, you know everybody over there, young. So he trying. They trying to set screen to set F. And they on step and they contesting everything, making every shot difficult all the way up until the half.
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Chad Ochocinco Johnson
And.
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Antawn Walker
And listen, he just exploded in the second half, hitting a lot of shots. But I think one of the reasons with Jimmy, with Jimmy Butler being out, obviously you need a step to have a game like this today and he can go off like this and win, win a game by himself. He had 36, 12 or 23.
- [08:17]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
And.
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Antawn Walker
But the supporting cast, Buddy Hill went crazy with 17. Gary Payton Jr. Contributed as well with 16. And the warriors bench outscored the Rockets 42, 31. And that was a major factor in why they were able to win this game.
- [08:30]
Shannon Sharpe
Well, it looked like they started out early. Twan, they was blessing him. They was trapping him, getting the ball out of his hands. They want to make him give it up. And if you notice later in Steph's career, Steph is sometimes I thought early he would force the three. Steph doesn't have a problem putting the ball on the floor and going to the basket. Not twine. That makes him dangerous because they've used before, like, hey, nah, bro, you're not. We not worried about you driving the ball. So, you know we gonna hug up on you. Nah. Definitely. Nah, he handles too good, bro. Cause I can put it on. I can go behind my back, between my legs, and I can finish with either hand. And he's unafraid to shoot that mid range also. So he's his game when he gets that three ball going, when he shoots the ball and he's turning, he's starting. I got something for y'all, y'all. Hey, y'all, get that up out the mix. They dangerous, Twan, they dangerous.
- [09:16]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Listen, I just think with Houston, you definitely have to respect the fact that Steph Curry is who he is, obviously one of the greatest players of all time. You gotta double and take the ball in his hands. You gotta make one of those other guys, see if they can get 20, 25 points tonight. You can't allow Steph, especially the game. Once Jimmy Butler was not playing, I would have double stepped the whole game. I wouldn't allow Steph to beat me. I would've seen if, I would have seen if Kaminga. I would've seen a Buddy Hill, Gary Payton second. Even though Buddy Hill and Gary Payton II I thought played terrific tonight. Let's see if they can do it in all series long. I'm not going to just let them beat me. I can't let Steph beat me if he has no, he's going to have one of those nights where nobody's going to be able to, but you got to flat out guard him and double team him as much as possible and make somebody else beat you if Houston wants to win because Houston don't have enough scoring. I love Houston. I love the fact, I love their mentality, I love the way they play. They play hard, but you know, in this league you got to score some points. They just don't have enough firepower offensively. So if you're not going to be able to score the basketball, you got to defend at a really, really high level.
- [10:19]
Shannon Sharpe
I think the thing is, Tuan, is that they're so athletic and they're used to getting up and down. But you know, come playoff time, they're going to make your ass play in the half court. So you be, you better be able to run some sets. And that's what if you go back and look at Golden State, look at when they run that made their run, they were able to run set step is perpetual motion. He's not going to stop. So if you think you got him guarded on one side, you better tell the guy, hey, Harry, come over to you. So he can be on his best behavior because he and somebody's going to set a pick because so you have to watch him. You have to keep, literally keep your eyes on him at all times because if you turn your head for just a second, he'll backdoor you. Or they're hitting that flare to him to the corner. And then now he's flashing the three in your eyes and you're like, well, damn. And you can guard good for 21, 22, 20, 23 seconds. And he'll let the ball go and it splash and it's so demoralizing when you play defense for that long, Tuan, and you don't have anything to show for it. Go ahead.
- [11:13]
Antawn Walker
OO no, I, I, I'm gonna say, gonna say the same thing. I think the Rockets did a very, very good job in trying to contain him and do as much as they can to disrupt his rhythm, obviously in the first half. But no one would, even though they would, even though they have the younger legs, they were, they were unable to continue to do that. Obviously, Steph going off and at some point he' and no matter what the game plan is, you just hope to contain them because you're not going to be able to stop him. And that's what young Bull did tonight.
- [11:43]
Shannon Sharpe
Yeah. If the thing is, if, if he see one or two of them go in and you can, you can play the perfect defense and you saw the, I mean, he'll start falling out of bounds and launching the ball. You're like, that ain't got no business going in. That should not have fallen, but it does and it gives him a jolt of energy. So now you got your work cut out for him because like Tuan say, you might have to blitz him or trap him at half court. You got to make him give that ball up and make someone else beat you. I'm going to see, let's see if Buddy Hill can go get 36. Let's see if Gary Payton II if he can go get mid 20s. Because I cannot let Steph do what he does and let these auxiliary guys do what they do by adding to that. If, if you do that, you're asking for a lot, but I agree with you, Tuan. I thought with minus Jimmy Butler, I said, you know what? Anybody but Steph. Anybody but Steph. A B S. Anybody but Steph.
- [12:38]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
And you know what? And I have a lot of respect for you, dok. I think he's one of the great young coaches in the league. I just gotta make somebody else beat me. I cannot let Steph beat me. Once Jimmy Butler puts a DMP and he don't put that uniform on, I'm making somebody else beat me. I just can't do it. I can't see Steph with 37, 40 points and really controlling and dominating the game. I'm pretty sure they gonna look at the Film and Udoka's a little stubborn, we all know that. I mean, Stuck is probably top 10, top 15 player to ever play the game. Let's respect that and let's double team him. Let's respect it and double team him and force somebody else to beat you. You can't just play hard in those defense unless you got one of those guys. I know Dillon Brooks is his defensive specialist and he knows he's tough. But if you don't have a guy that's going to chase and run for 40 minutes, what Steph is going to do and the guy's going to have the ball in his hands the whole game. Just double team him, get it out of his hands and make somebody else beat you.
- [13:33]
Shannon Sharpe
Well, I thought Dillon Brooks got in foul trouble. And the problem is that you have is that he knows the type of defense that Dillon Brooks is going to play on him. I think you got to give him a lot of different looks because it's just like anything, you give a guy enough, he'll build up in the resistance to it and he'll understand, okay, this is how you're going to play me. This is the way you play. Okay, this is what I need to do. So. And once Dillon Brooks got in foul trouble, you know, they tried Thompson on him, they tried some other different guys. But now you let him see a couple of those shots go in and you know, the NBA is such a rhythm game. A guy that might not be one of these great players, he see a couple of shots go in.
- [14:10]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
And also too, don't forget to add Golden State at home. So, you know, you know, Golden State at home. So, you know, you tend to play better. Not only just the role players play better at home. Your main guy played better at home. I mean, obviously you want your starter, get you a big game on the road. But you know, Steph has huge games in that arena. You got to think about that too, that home crowd too. So I'm just going to try to disrupt them, get them out their rhythm. They're missing a key piece when they're missing Jimmy Butler, a guy that brings so much to their team. You got to double team Steph. There's no other way that you're going to be able to beat Golden State, especially at home, because those others are going to play better at home, at home. It's just, it's kind of like a ongoal said that the others play better at home. You know, they feed off the crowd. You get great production from those guys at home. Now if you wanted that strategy on the road at Houston, okay, maybe. But at home, those guys are going to make shots. They're going to feed off the crowd. And that's when you seen Buddy Hill and Gary Payton II have nice nights.
- [15:09]
Shannon Sharpe
Not only did you let steph go get 36, you let him have nine assists. So now you allowed him to bring others to the party. It was supposed to be, hey, I told you it was Steph. Not a plus one, plus two. Steph was supposed to come to the party by himself, Dwan. So now you let him sneak two other guys in the party. So now it's three when it was only supposed to be one. I see them one. I didn't say a one plus one or one plus two. I say, steph, you invited to this party, okay? Lo and behold, he bring Buddy Hill and Gary Payton ii. Now look what happened. They all dancing. They done got rid of the dj. They playing their own type of music. O joke. They do what they wilding.
- [15:49]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
You know, matchups mean everything too, though. You know, sometimes, you know, you know, if I'm used to it, I may not want that matchup. You know that sometimes that can happen.
- [16:00]
Shannon Sharpe
Because their key players are battle tested in these situations. Houston isn't. You see Steph Curry, Draymond, they've been here, done that. Although Jimmy hasn't won a title, he's taken a team to the NBA finals twice, so he knows what it's like. Kavon Looney, he's done that. Kaminga and Moody, they was on that team. Although they didn't get very much, very many minutes. They understand these moments. Houston haven't been in these moments before. It is a different type of an atmosphere. It's a different type of environment, and you have to be there and be in it to understand what it's actually like. I'm not so sure that these guys understand what it's like. You're like, oh, you have to go through the fire. That's why it's so hard for first timers to win the championship. Now it's happened, but you need to be battle tested in situations like that. And I don't think Houston is battle tested enough in that situation. And another thing, Tuan, who's their go to guy? You see, most teams, they got a go to guy. They gonna go to the Celtics. Excuse me. Celtics gonna go either to JT or jb. You got the Clippers. They gonna put the ball in Kawhi hand or they gonna put it in James Harden. You get the Nuggets Jamal Murray a yolks touching that ball. Lakers, you got, you got LeBron, you got Luka, you got ant man for the opposing team, you got Bankero. I don't know if I can definitively say I want to get the ball to this guy right here and let him go do something special. I think they're built on, they're an assembly type team. So hopefully guys play it well. We can get out on the break and use our athleticism and our youth, but when they get you in a half court set, you better have somebody that can go one on one or it's getting late in the ball game, you need that person.
- [17:42]
Antawn Walker
I mean, hey, Tuan, before you, before you answer, obviously I think about Van Vliet, you know, a veteran, veteran presence. He's on the court. He's used to being one of the guys that normally has the ball in his hands and can create and make things happen. But Drayden Green is that guy. He's supposed to be that guy. He's the one that can make things happen. He can put the ball on the floor, he can create space, he can take people on one on one. So collectively as a group, they have to get it done. If based on what you're saying, if they don't have their Anthony ample, if they don't have their Luke or their LeBron on their team or their Steph Curry, Jalen Green has to step up and be that guy, especially in moments like this and use the youth to their advantage.
- [18:22]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
You start off with your question. You named everybody a superstar or two on each everybody team. When you think about Houston, like you say, Chad, it's by committee. It's not really one guy we can really pinpoint that's gonna be that guy. And that's something that eventually the upper management, they gonna have to try to go out there and maybe get a guy, a list star, Kevin Durant to go along with the group they got. Cause they gotta. Well, yeah, they gotta. I would love to see him with a young court like this. I would love to see him with a young court like this. But they don't have that guy. So this is their first time going through it. So I just think with Jalen Green still young, doesn't understand he hasn't played well this series either. He didn't play well at home and he hasn't really played well. Cause he gotta think super.
- [19:06]
Shannon Sharpe
He played well that last game. He played well in the last game, Tuan, the first game, he didn't play well.
- [19:11]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
You gotta put that thing up 25 times. 25, 30 times. I gotta give myself a chance, you know, If I'm a superstar, I gotta give myself a chance. Especially on the road. Somebody on that Houston team has got to stay up. Even if it's Flamby, he's been there. He's a Fred. Fred's been there. Get on my back. Yeah, somebody's got to take a look. It's not.
- [19:31]
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- [20:02]
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- [21:04]
Daniel Jeremiah
The 40s and free agents podcast with Daniel Jeremiah and Greg Rosenthal has prepared you for the 2025 NFL Draft.
- [21:11]
Greg Rosenthal
We've told you what last year's playoff teams need to return to the postseason.
- [21:14]
Daniel Jeremiah
And how teams with new coaches should approach the draft.
- [21:17]
Greg Rosenthal
So as draft season comes to a close, we've got you covered. Before your favorite team goes on the clock, we'll break it all down. Once all 257 picks have been made.
- [21:26]
Daniel Jeremiah
Listen to the 40s and free agents podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [21:35]
T-Mobile Advertiser
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- [22:12]
Shannon Sharpe
I don't think trade is played well. Go ahead, Ocho. Go ahead. Go ahead.
- [22:17]
Antawn Walker
I want to ask Twan a Twan based on when it team to team. Now you could, you could probably give me a little help on this team to team. Obviously you have certain players that have the green light to be able to put the ball up and shoot whenever they want, you know, regardless of where they're missing, trying to get themselves in the rhythm. Isn't Jalen Green that guy that has that green light to be able to do that?
- [22:35]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Oh, without question. He definitely has that green light. Yeah, he probably. He's probably the only. He's probably 1A and I'm gonna say Fred, maybe 1B. The guys that have the green light that can just come down and shoot. I'm going to just say those two guys have it.
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Antawn Walker
Okay, okay, okay, okay.
- [22:51]
Shannon Sharpe
Jalen Green did not play well. He was 4 of 11, 1 for 5. It was the kind of a very similar situation in game one in which they played and they ended up losing that game. And the game really wasn't close. They made, they made a run at Golden State late in the ball game, but the game, I think it got, the closest they got was maybe four or six with a, with a like a minute to go. But he has to play. He has to play better. I don't think Fred Van Fleet has played well this year. Now, I know he's been nicked, Tuan, and I know he's more than capable. That's why he got the big money to come to Toronto. But he hasn't played well. And in order for them to win, because he's the one that's been in these situations with Toronto, he won a championship, so he knows what it's like. But I think in order for them to have a chance, he's going to have to play much better than what he's playing.
- [23:40]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
I got so much respect for Udoka. I don't think the series is over, but this is going to be a D series. I think Houston has a chance to make some adjustments. They can see what they did wrong and really respond to this. Because you don't know how long Jimmy's out. We haven't got the word how long Jimmy's going to be out. If Jimmy hasn't said a couple games, this series is still wide open. Now, if you get Jimmy back, they probably going to be a little outnumbered to be able to beat the Golden State Warriors. But if Jimmy's not going to sit out, which I'm probably sure Steve Kerr is probably going to say, hey, he got a game.
- [24:15]
Shannon Sharpe
Yep, I agree.
- [24:16]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Yeah, I agree. He's gonna probably say, take the next game off. Let's get you to 100% and get you back to 100%. So I just think this young team, this is their first time going and we got, we got so much respect for them because they had such a great season. And they, they have three seed, but they, they're inexperienced a little bit. You see some of, well, I'm sorry, two seed, you're right. So we, we're putting a lot of. We put a lot of thought that they're going to be really good. But you see the mistakes, you seeing them right now throughout the game and throughout the series, the mistakes that they. I don't know if they're going to be able to recover. Steph is too good. They got them veteran guys. Everybody on Golden State have been in meaningful games throughout their career. It's going to be hard to beat Golden State. This was the game they needed without Jimmy tonight. You could have put a little pressure on Golden State. Now I think Golden State feels good about theyself, but when you think about.
- [25:02]
Shannon Sharpe
It, you thought about all the teams that could potentially be the seventh seed. I think all of them pretty much would have been favored. If the Clippers the seventh seed, I think they would have been favored over Houston. I think there. Anybody, Minnesota. I think they would have been favored over Houston. Golden State is favored over Houston. I think Lakers would have been favored. I don't see a scenario because of their youth and because of the lack of. Because every team that I mentioned, they have a bona fide superstar. Some have two. The Nuggets. We know.
- [25:33]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
You just said the magic word. You just said the magic word. You gotta, you know this, you gotta have superstars playoff time during the season because your legs are fresh and you guys know this through a season, everything else, young guys gonna have fresh legs. Older guys take them a while to rev up. But come playoff time, they know how to win, they know how to preserve. It's no back to back games. Nobody ever talk about that. I always tell people it's no back to back games. So you get time to get that body to get rejuvenated, get in the cold tub, get yourself back together. That's why it doesn't bother Golden State. A team like that that has some veterans on their team, they gonna get a couple days off, they right back at it, but they get the rest. But these young guys gotta understand that and figure out different ways to be effective. I think with Houston, you have to respect what they have, and that's double. You can't let Steph beat you. If I'm Udoka, I'm gonna put my pride to the side. I know that they want to be this tough defensive team and you supposed to have a couple guys that can guard individually. I'm a respect Steph as a top 10 player to ever play this game. And I'mma double team him and make Buddy Hill, make Gary Payton this, that or second. Beat me, Moody Kaminga, somebody, they gotta beat me. I'm not. I'm going like back in the old school days. I'm running across half court, I'm trapping Steph, just forcing it out of his hand a little bit, making some other guys take some sh. You can't have a night like tonight when you get four or five other guys in double figures and Steph gets 30. That's going to be tough to beat him that way.
- [26:57]
Shannon Sharpe
You're absolutely right. And another thing, you look, I'm central. I ain't going nowhere because guess what? I ain't got to play. I ain't got to play in Orlando and then leave that night and go to or and go to go to Miami and then come back up the road and go to Atlanta and then I hit Charlotte and then I'm up to Baltimore. I ain't got no long road trade.
- [27:14]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
I'm here.
- [27:15]
Shannon Sharpe
So I might be here for four days, but I'm here. I don't have any travel, whereas in the regular season you got travel. And like you said, those young legs can take advantage. Now we stationary. We ain't going nowhere until we leave and have to go back home. Well, that favors a team that's been there that knows what it's like to Be in situations like this. And to be able to, like, to, to, to, to like. Okay, this is what we need to do. Lock in this right here. And teams that have been here, Ocho, they know how to put you in the half court set. You got to be able. They not gonna let you get up and down. They're not gonna let you get up and down. You've got to execute in the half court set. And execution normally comes from guys that have been there. And as Twaney keeps saying, superstar players. Look at the teams and look at. They have at least one. Some of them have two superstar players that understand this moment and how to get it done. Go ahead.
- [28:13]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
It's the reason why Golden State made the trade they did for Jimmy Butler. They wasn't going to leave. They knew they couldn't continue to leave Steph Curry on that island by himself. Don't get me wrong, I love Drake, I love Draymond Green. It's probably going to be a Hall of Fame. But Draymond Green is not a score. He's a more of a, you know, utility play. He's going to get you four or five rebounds, six, seven assists. Play defense. He's going to do all the intangibles. But they needed another bonafide score to go along with Steph Curry, and that's why you saw the addition of Jimmy Butler. So that's the same thing with Houston. You're figuring this out right now. You had an exceptional season. I'm not saying this series is over, but you have to respect what you got right now on the roster. You don't have a guy, you don't know who's going to get 25 or 30 for Houston. We got to wait and see. You know what I mean? We don't know right now. We wait and see who's going to show up. And you're asking some young guys, Jalen Green, these guys, first time around in the rodeo, second time. Playing meaningful games like this, it takes some time, but you gotta respect Steph. All I'm gonna say, I would love to see Udoka. Don't be stubborn. Respect Steph, double him and make somebody else beat you.
- [29:16]
Antawn Walker
That's how I'm gonna be, you know. Hey, Unk.
- [29:19]
Shannon Sharpe
Yep.
- [29:19]
Antawn Walker
I mean, listen, and to make the. Make the series, obviously. Interesting. Also the head coach, Idoka, he could go talk to Van Vliet, he could talk to, you know, brother Green and say, man, listen, in order for. To have a chance, not only are we gonna double st, double step and do what we need to do defensively. On him, you got the exertive injury. But on the offensive end, man, y'all, if you see it, pull it. If you see it, pull it. Every time. I need you to put up 25, 20, 22, 25 shots a game. It's the only way. Because we don't have. Because we don't have a bona fide superstar. I need one of y'all to fill that role and put your cape on.
- [29:55]
Shannon Sharpe
Yeah, but if they don't win this game, it's over. Cause I don't believe they can beat them three times in a row. If Golden State win this next game at home, it's over. Series over. Tawan, they're not beating them. They're not beating them three games in a row and a half.
- [30:10]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
No, this was the big. This was the big game tonight. You need to still this one. You let one slip away on your home floor, which obviously that killed you. You would love to go into Golden State up 2 0. That didn't happen. So when that doesn't happen, you know you gotta win game three to get control. Back of the series. Now it's back to Golden State. Cause now you're able to win one without Jimmy. Now he gets two games off now with a couple days sprinkling at rest. So you don't even have to bring him back because worst case scenario, you two, two. So now you get Jimmy, get a chance. If you get a few extra days rest, it's just going to be tough for Houston because they're going to have to find scoring. I don't know where that's going to come from. They're still young. Jabari Smith. Those young guys don't have enough mental toughness to say, hey, I'm going to get 20 shots up. They ain't did it all year. They play by committee, you know what I mean? They're not going to shoot the ball and be aggressive like that. So it's going to be tough to do that. But they're going to be competitive. They're going to be games like tonight, they're going to compete. Your Duncan's going to have them ready. But I just think they're a little outmatched sometimes. Matchups matter in the playoffs and I think they're a little outmatched right now.
- [31:13]
Antawn Walker
Saint so there's no scenario in which.
- [31:15]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
You see that game.
- [31:17]
Antawn Walker
Yeah, so there's no scenario in which you see the Rockets even having a chance. You really think this series is over?
- [31:24]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
You got to win with it. With no, Timmy Butler, you got to get the win. And so now, you know, I'm assuming that Steve Kerr's gonna probably. Steve Kurt's gonna rest Jimmy. Maybe I can get Jimmy a couple extra. Yeah, me too. So you rest Jimmy again. Worst case scenario, you still 2 2. I still like Golden State in that scenario, right? You had to win tonight. I think tonight you had to take over the series. And then you build that confidence and then now Jimmy may wanna play the next game. He not feeling 100%, you know what I'm saying? Now he comes back and now he can kind of throw that rhythm off a little bit. But now I think the momentum's completely in. Golden State hand, they in control of the series. Now.
- [32:03]
Shannon Sharpe
The most interesting game of the night. The Nuggets and the Clippers and all of these games, with the exception of game three, have come right down to the end the series have now tied 2, 2 and Tuan, I don't know if you're old enough to remember when this happened. The first thing went through my mind. North Carolina State, Houston, 1983 and Albuquerque, New Mexico. Gary Wittenberg shoots the shot. Lorenzo Charles dunks it in at the buzzer. They beat Elijah Warren, Clyde Drexler, that great Houston Cougar team coached by coach Guy Lewis, rest his soul. And they pull off the national championship. Very, very similar situation. Replay center officials confirmed the ruling. It was a good basket. The ball was out of his hand when the buzzer went off. According to ESPN research, Aaron Gordon dunk was the first ever game winning, buzzy beating dunk in NBA postseason history. Jokic, he. Jokic look shave gonna win the MVP. Jokic is the best player in the NBA. 36 points, 21 rebounds, 8 assists, 2 steals. He joins Giannis as the only players with a 35, 25 playoff game over the last 20 seasons. He was great when he needed to be great. And I don't even. I don't know what, I don't know what adjectives or adverbs or whatever we want to use to describe this man, Thuan, but we can't say. We can't sing his praise or he praise on him enough. That third quarter was a thing of beauty. They stretched the lead to 20. But you know, I'm noticing this and tell me, am I delusional? When teams get down, seems like everybody likes to jump into that zone. The Clippers jumped into a zone and it really threw them off their rhythm because the guys started taking early threes. Michael Porter Jr. Took a couple, I think Aaron Gordon Took a couple, I think Murray took a couple and it allowed them to get. And they started trapping for some turnovers and they got themselves back into the ball game. But the Nuggets absolutely had to win this game in order to make this a series. I can see this being a seven game series. What did you like about what you saw from the fight and the determination? Because normally, Tawan, you have a lead that big and you lose it and the team take the lead, you're like, oh, we cooked.
- [34:20]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Honestly, you know, whatever championship team, you just seeing it right now. Those guys been in the wars, they've been there before. They don't get rattled. I think with the Clippers and you just alluded to it a little bit, you got to pick your poison. I mean, don't get me wrong, Jokic is going to get his numbers, but you got to decide it's going to be 36 or 26. And what I mean by that, you got to double him. You got to double him with a purpose. I can't get him get a triple double with 30. Cause now the chances are you're going to lose that game. If he's able to get 30 points, you got to make Murray, you have to make, you know, Gordon, you have to make Michael Porter Jr. Beat you. You have to decide. T. Lewis has a great basketball mind. Jeff Van Gundy, I know, is over there orchestrating the defense. You can't let him have his cake and eat it too. Y'all guys heard that saying too. When you have a guy your cake and eat it too, you can't give them both. You gotta take away one. And they didn't do that tonight. When you look at the numbers, you see 36, 21 and eight. That means he did everything.
- [35:15]
Shannon Sharpe
You got eight assists.
- [35:16]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Yeah, I'd rather have 15 assists and 20 points.
- [35:21]
Antawn Walker
Now.
- [35:21]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
I know at least I got a chance. But if you're going to give them 30 points, they don't have a chance to beat them. The Clippers got to remember the Clippers are missing a really important piece of the scoring from last year. Obviously Paul George is a big piece to replace on the scoring side. Norman Powell was great today. They're not getting much at the point guard position as far as scoring. If the Clippers are not, they're kind of doing that by committee. I think the big fellow's playing as good as he can play. Zubox, he's, you know, he's playing unbelievable. You're playing against, you know, arguably the best center ever to play the game. You know, he may end up as the best center ever to play the game. You're playing him one on one most of the time and trying to guard him and score. So they're doing a good job in that. In that sense. I just think the Clippers have to make a decision on we can't give them both. Which one are we going to give him? Are we going to make him a passer or we going to let him be a scorer? I ain't going to lie to you. He's that good. I don't know which one to do right now.
- [36:16]
Shannon Sharpe
It's hard.
- [36:17]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Yeah. I would have to really watch the film, Chad. I ain't going to lie. I got to watch the film and like, kind of figure out maybe the percentages. You know, these guys are all analytical now, so maybe these guys, maybe some percentages that can tell you which way to go, but, man, I can't. I can't sit and watch him do both.
- [36:34]
Antawn Walker
But, hey, this is the thing too, right, Tuan, listen, what happened if you do. If you do double him, you double him, you catch him up top, you catch him down in the post and you double him, forcing to kick the ball out. But when you have Michael Porter Jr. Christian Braun, you got Jamal Murray playing and contributing the way they are tonight, it wouldn't matter if he does get 20, if he doesn't get 30, they gonna. They gonna counter for the points that he does score with the way they played tonight.
- [36:58]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Well, I want to see him get five guys. I want to see him get five guys with double figures again. I'm gonna try to lose that way, but I'm. I'm. That 30. I'm gonna make that 36, 23 at least, right. I don't want it to be 30. It can't be 36 and five guys at double figures. That's what happened tonight. You get that. They can't. You can't nobody beat them like that.
- [37:15]
Antawn Walker
Right, right. Right.
- [37:16]
Shannon Sharpe
And plus, the thing is, is that you let him get it in an efficient manner. Now, if he gets 36 and it took him 30 shots, then you could live with that twine.
- [37:24]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Great point. That's a great point.
- [37:25]
Shannon Sharpe
You let. You let him get that. You let him get those numbers in an efficient manner. He's 14 to 25.
- [37:30]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Yeah, that's a great point. I just.
- [37:32]
Shannon Sharpe
You let him. You.
- [37:34]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
If I got. I know Jeff Van Gunny. We all know Jeff Van Gunny. Great defensive mind. One of the greatest defensive minds that coach basketball. He has to. He's went Against Michael Jordan, he's won. Against Kobe Bryant, he's won us against some of the greatest scorers to ever play the game. You gotta decide which one. You can't just take both of them. You can't just let this guy. You can't, you can't. You can't take the. You can't take the triple double and the 30 points. You can't let that happen. I gotta. You gotta make a decision on whether or not I'm going to double team this guy and make him a passer. Nuggets only hit 10 threes tonight. They didn't hit a lot of threes. They hit 10. No, the Clippers hit 10. So, you know, you even in the three point category tonight. So I got to take my chance. I'm going to respect this guy, could possibly be the MVP again. He's probably one of the top five greatest centers to ever play the game. You have to respect guys. That's what I was saying about Steph. You have to respect guys and what they bring to the game and how much a difference they make to their team. I can't let Joker have both of them. That's just me. I'm not going. And T. Lou, T. Lou, you got to figure out. I'm not going to let him do both.
- [38:36]
Shannon Sharpe
Yeah, I thought, you know, they, they. The other night he had a triple double, but it was, you know, in a losing effort. I mean, he was. Since, I mean, he's, he's. Nicole, there's a reason why he's won three MVPs in the last five years. He's probably going to finish second this year. He's been second every other time that he didn't win the award. I don't think this year's gonna be any different. He's sensational because we've never seen a center that can do all that he can do. On the offensive end. He has no weakness. Footwork is impeccable. He can shoot the three. He has a turnaround. He can play with his back to the basket. He can run the offense. Hey, you come with a double team, he knows, oh, that's you. So, my man, this guy's supposed to be over here without even looking. He's that kind of an IQ basketball player.
- [39:25]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
That's what I mean. You got to respect him, respect the skill set, respect what he brings to the table and try to take something away. And then you got to try to double team, get the ball out of his hands, make somebody else beat you. I want to take my chances if it's me, I'm a double teamer and I'm going to see how many Michael Porter, Jamal Murray, I'm going to see how many shots those guys can make. I'm gonna see if one of those guys can go off. I'm gonna try to just. I'm double chain junk to frustrate him, get it out of hand.
- [39:54]
Shannon Sharpe
They need to get a little bit more from. I think they need to get a little bit more from Chris Dunn. I thought Kawhi played really well, especially in the second half of the fourth, that fourth quarter. He was really good. Zubas is giving you everything. I mean, he's giving you what he averaged in the regular season, 19 and 12. Harden. I like to see Harden be a little bit more aggressive. He only took 11 shots. I like to see Harden around 15 to 18.
- [40:17]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
I think he's. I think he's trying to pick his spots and you kind of watch him. He's not like overly aggressive. He's trying to get his teammates involved. But I think at certain times he has to be aggressive. When they go to that Ben Simmons lineup, Ben Simmons ain't even Ben not even looking at the basket. Shane, he ain't even looking at the basket.
- [40:35]
Today Show Host
No.
- [40:35]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
So when you know what I'm saying, Chad, he not looking at the basket. So by him not looking at the basket, bro, he in the game, he's kind of like, you know, he's on their team. It's six against four when he's not looking at the basket. So that may be a time where James go, you know, get into his one on one game and try to be a lot more aggressive. But I do agree with you. It's them nights you need that 30, that 35 like, you know, went Kawhi. Kawhi went on and had that 30, 35 point performance. You need James and Kawhi guys to go get those numbers because you're not going to get much, you know, at that center spot besides, you know, when Ben is in the game. And I know they like to play that lineup because they get right Denver kind of confused a little bit and everything. Ben is a pretty good defender. I am going to say that he is a pretty good defender. He still could play defense, but offensively he's such a liability. Right. You know, it's hard to watch sometime. I can't believe it that he's such a liability right now.
- [41:31]
Shannon Sharpe
Yeah, I'm cheating on him.
- [41:32]
Antawn Walker
Hey, Tawan, somebody like Ben Simmons that has all the potential, obviously at one point and What I thought, based on what I heard and what I've seen, at what point mentally does the confidence kick in and he understands how good he can actually be and he finds himself getting in the rhythm and he finds himself getting confidence. I mean, I don't understand what the issue is based on him. If you look at him, you understand we can do what he can do. He can play defense, he can score. If he had the confidence and willingness to shoot the ball, whether it be mid range, whether it be three, whether it be taking people off the dribble to the hole, it's like he doesn't want to do anything. I don't understand. I've seen him a clear layup right there, and it's wide open and he'd rather pass it off.
- [42:18]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
I think at this point, it's going to take a coach that honestly believes in him, play him extended minutes and force him to be aggressive offensively. You have to really basically force him to be that. Remember, he was playing a lot of point guard towards the end before he left, obviously left New Jersey. I mean, Brooklyn. But he has to, like, you have to put him in position where you have to force him to be a score, to be a playmaker. Like him playing that center like I would if I was Lou. I'll let him bring the ball up the court against Jokic, maybe put him in a pick and roll, maybe he can turn the corner. The joker can't guard him in the open court. But you're bailing them out. You're bailing them out by not letting him be aggressive offensively for what you just talked about, Chad, because he don't want to shoot the ball. He don't want to be aggressive and attack the basket. That's what's bad about that situation.
- [43:04]
Shannon Sharpe
So I, me, me personally, I think it's that ship's sale, because there were times that he had the ball in his hand at Philly and he wasn't aggressive. And, you know, Joel Embiid said what he said, Doc Rivers said what he said. You see, the thing is, and I use the analogy like this, Tuan and Ocho, I can teach you to swim if you're not afraid of the water. See, if you're afraid of the water, I can't teach you how to swim. You see, Tuan, you said he's afraid of the basket, so I can't teach him how to be aggressive. You see a guy that's not afraid of the basket, hey, I miss it. Okay, okay. Oh, well, the next one gonna go In. That's not how he sees it. Plus, if he gets fouled, he doesn't want to go to the free throw line because he got the yips there. So now I'm not looking to score and I'm not looking. Cause they might foul me and put my butt on the free throw line. So I'm afraid of the water. So I really won't ever be able to do anything but doggy pal or stand up in the kiddie pool. Damn. I'm really not gonna try to get my. I'm not gonna put my head up under the water. Go back and look at him. You right good.
- [44:02]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
I like. I like what you said is 100% accurate. And I think that. But I think what T. Lewis looking at is that maybe I guy, he's been a great defender in his league. Jokic is not a guy that plays above the basket. He plays below the rim. Just a guy that I could probably put on Jokic and mix it up a little bit because Ben Simmons Probably 610, 611, that's like. You know what I'm saying? Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
- [44:26]
Antawn Walker
Timeout.
- [44:26]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
He What? He's about 610, 611chad. He up. That's why he playing center. That's why he's playing center.
- [44:35]
Shannon Sharpe
Yeah, he's that big. He's a big kid.
- [44:37]
Antawn Walker
Yeah, I'm thinking, I'm thinking he's six, five.
- [44:40]
Shannon Sharpe
Six six. No.
- [44:41]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Oh, no way. No, no, no, no, no. The shortest, the shortest he may be is 6, 9. That's the shortest. He's 6 10. 6 10. Yeah.
- [44:52]
Antawn Walker
And he's supposed to be out there dogging it. Man. I'm talking about like man, stop.
- [44:55]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Ah. Stop playing that boy. They get a hundred million dollar contract cause he was 6 5.
- [45:05]
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- [46:38]
Daniel Jeremiah
The 40s and free agents Podcast with Daniel Jeremiah and Greg Rosenthal has prepared you for the 2025 NFL Draft.
- [46:45]
Greg Rosenthal
We've told you what last year's playoff teams need to return to the postseason.
- [46:48]
Daniel Jeremiah
And how teams with new coaches should approach the draft.
- [46:51]
Greg Rosenthal
So as draft season comes to a close, we've got you covered. Before your favorite team goes on the clock, we'll break it all down once all 257 picks have been made.
- [47:00]
Daniel Jeremiah
Listen to the 40s and free agents podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [47:10]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
I'm Israel Gutierrez and I'm hosting a.
- [47:12]
Shannon Sharpe
New podcast, Dub Dynasty, the story of.
- [47:15]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
How the Golden State warriors have dominated.
- [47:17]
Shannon Sharpe
The NBA for over a decade.
- [47:19]
Daniel Jeremiah
The Golden State Warri once again our NBA champions from the building of the.
- [47:25]
Shannon Sharpe
Core that included Klay Thompson and Draymond.
- [47:28]
Daniel Jeremiah
Green to one of the boldest coaching.
- [47:30]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Decisions in the history of the sport.
- [47:32]
Shannon Sharpe
I just felt like the biggest thing was to earn the trust of the players and let the players know that we were here to try to help them take the next step, not tear anything down. Today, the warriors dynasty remains alive in large part because of a scrawny 6.
- [47:46]
Daniel Jeremiah
Foot 2 hooper who everyone seems to.
- [47:48]
Shannon Sharpe
Love for what Steph has done for the game. He's certainly on that like Mount Rushmore.
- [47:52]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
For guys that have changed it, come.
- [47:54]
Shannon Sharpe
Revisit this magical warriors ride.
- [47:56]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
This is Dove Dynasty.
- [47:58]
Shannon Sharpe
The Dubs dynasty is still very much alive.
- [48:02]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Listen to Dub Dynasty on the iHeartRadio app.
- [48:05]
Shannon Sharpe
Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. See, what concerned me is that I didn't see him get any better from his rookie year till go back and look at all the guys that's got these big contracts. Have you seen Shay get better? Have you seen Jaylen Brown get better? Have you seen Jayson Tatum get better? Have you seen Luka? Have you seen Jalen Brunson look at all the guys. Austin Reaves is a prime example. It's hard if you put the time in the gym for you not to get incrementally better, Twan. It's just hard for you to stay the same. Tell me you're doing the same thing. Look at those guys and how they've evolved and how they've gotten better and better. Look at Kawhi. Kawhi wasn't no scorer when he got in the league. Kawhi gave you about 12, 13. Now Kawhi can give you 26, 27 when he's healthy because you see the work that he's putting in.
- [49:08]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
I'm going to be honest with you. I'm going to be honest with you. You guys know this as athletes, and we are athletes. You know, sometimes guys don't want it, man. You know what I mean? We can want them to have it. We see all the individual talent. He showed us a glimpse from when he in college, his first couple years in the league, or how great it can be and what you just said, if he hasn't decided to put that into work. And I love T Lou, too. T Lou's one of the best coaches in the league and great motivators. And if T Lou can't get him to playing basketball at a level that's going to contribute and help a team, then I don't know where you go from here. This is like the perfect scenario. You don't have to have the ball in your hands. You got a guy like Kawhi that's scoring the ball. All you got to do is do the intangibles on the team, but they didn't even step up. You can't get donuts from them. You can't. You gotta get some. You gotta get something out of him.
- [49:55]
Shannon Sharpe
He had two points tonight.
- [49:56]
Antawn Walker
Hey.
- [49:57]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Hey, Tuan.
- [49:59]
Antawn Walker
Hey.
- [50:00]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Yeah.
- [50:01]
Antawn Walker
I tell you what he could do. I tell you what he could do. Tell business Simmons, come on down here to Miami and hang with me for six months. We gonna get him mentally right? Six, eleven.
- [50:11]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Yes.
- [50:12]
Antawn Walker
All this time I've been watching basketball, I think, you know, I think, young boy, I'm Thinking he's six'six you know, six'five I'm thinking he's scared to shoot the ball, obviously. Obviously. Being in Philly, you know how Philly fans are. They do not play. They will boo you in your own stadium. So I'm thinking, okay, maybe he's a little reluctant to pull the trigger. He doesn't want to go to the free throw line. I understand it. I know how hard it is when you miss shots and you're feeling down on yourself, but then you have to deal with the fans. Okay, boom. That's one thing. But then I think about, well, damn, still, as many years as it's been, you got your big deal and you still haven't got that confidence in you to be able to just at will, just play the game you've been playing since you were young, Basketball. All you gotta do is take the ball, put that motherfucking hoop. Excuse me. Now, my, my mentality on him is now changing because now you telling me he's 6 10, 6 11, and he playing like he's like he 5, 10. I swear for God, bring him on down here to Miami. I get him, right?
- [51:05]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Because.
- [51:06]
Antawn Walker
Hey, Swan, you gotta understand, I. I'm in high school. I was only 6 4, but I averaged 56 a game since my freshman year, high school.
- [51:14]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Do we got proof of that?
- [51:15]
Shannon Sharpe
No.
- [51:15]
Antawn Walker
Finishing our lessons every. Every night.
- [51:18]
Shannon Sharpe
Every.
- [51:18]
Antawn Walker
Every game, 2 hours, 56, 12 and 9. 56, 12 and 9. Same scoreline. But I chose to play football instead.
- [51:25]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
But I'm just feeling like, you know, ud a few guys down there, I can get some facts check.
- [51:32]
Antawn Walker
I played against ud. Hey, I dunked on UD twice.
- [51:37]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Yeah.
- [51:38]
Antawn Walker
Ask UD about me in high school. Boy, I was the real deal. I was like. I was a mix between like Russell Westbrook and John Morant and Kevin Durant. Yeah, I was a little bit.
- [51:52]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
I'm say this, I'm not, because I never seen you play. So just a little backstory. I played with Donovan McNabb, who's a great basketball player. So I'm not going to play who I played with. Donovan McNabb, great basketball.
- [52:04]
Shannon Sharpe
Yeah, big time.
- [52:06]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
He signed with Syracuse as a two sport athlete. You didn't know that? Donovan McNabb, two sport outfit. Donovan averaged 20 points a game for me. That was my second 20. That was my second leading score. Donovan McNabb.
- [52:21]
Shannon Sharpe
Yeah.
- [52:21]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
So I can't say that you can't play. Cause I know I done seen football players be really good. Yeah.
- [52:27]
Antawn Walker
So I would listen. I was so good. I was so Good. Obviously, I could have played for the Heat with Ronnie Cyckley, like, they were trying to get me back then. But my grandma. My grandma, she wasn't on that.
- [52:39]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
You got any footage? You got any footage?
- [52:41]
Antawn Walker
Yeah, on vhs. I got the tapes right here in.
- [52:44]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
The COVID Okay, that's what I. Let me see a little footage I got you. Okay. Just a little footage.
- [52:51]
Antawn Walker
I'm a real Hooper. Like, I'm from New York.
- [52:55]
Shannon Sharpe
I just think the thing now is, Tuan, and I get what you're saying. Ocho. Y'all get what y'all saying, but the old saying, it's easier to teach a child than repair a broken man. And I think right now. Wait, wait.
- [53:07]
Antawn Walker
Stay right there. Stay right there.
- [53:08]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
I understand what he's saying. I understand what he was saying. I got him. You want to write it down? You want to write it down?
- [53:14]
Shannon Sharpe
Yeah. You want to write it down? If you notice, kids learn to swim easier than a grown person because a kid has no inhibitions of the water. You see them throw them babies in there, and the first thing they do, they go in their back. They, hey, you tell them one or two times, Twan, and they get to their back.
- [53:32]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
You know, y'all know this in sports, you know, sometimes you can get with that coach, right? And I played with T Lou, and T Lou's a good friend of mine, and I just thought T Lou would probably be that guy that can instill that confidence in him to be a lot better. Now, I didn't say he had to go out and get 15, 20 points a night, but he has to. But he, you know, like you just said, he can't have two points. You gonna play us 10 if you're gonna have two points, let's do some of the stuff you used to do. Get six, seven rebounds. How four or five is this how impact on the game? Because he's too talented. And for whatever reason, I don't know if he's lost it. But I thought with T Lou being there and being under T Lou that he would be able to get that out of him. And then when I seen him in the rotation, I was like, yes, this is perfect for him because he's going to get an opportunity with a great coach that's going to put him in a great position to do the best. I like the Clippers mindset. Put Ben Simmons at the center spot. Let's mix it up a little bit and see if we can get Joker. But if he don't give you none of the non offensively guys there's no purpose in playing Ben Simmons.
- [54:35]
Shannon Sharpe
It's no purpose because Joker's weakness. Joker's weakness is defense. Well, Ben Simmons is not a threat at that, so it doesn't do any good. And plus, he's not playing well enough for T. Lou to give him extended minutes. So in the amount of minutes that he's playing, he's not going to be able to get you the points, the rebounds and assists that he would if he was playing a full game. What's about just aggressive.
- [54:56]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
That's a great point.
- [54:56]
Antawn Walker
Listen.
- [54:57]
Shannon Sharpe
Yeah.
- [54:58]
Antawn Walker
I know you're not a tape recorder, but I need you to rewind that quote because I went to give him a pen and pad. I ain't have it on me. Something about a child. Something about a child. It was a good one. I need that because I got, you know, I got 50, 11 kids, and I need to be able to use that in my next argument.
- [55:10]
Shannon Sharpe
Yeah, it's easier to teach a child than to repair a broken man.
- [55:14]
Antawn Walker
Stop. Stay right there.
- [55:15]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
That's.
- [55:16]
Antawn Walker
That's what I'm talking about. Next time. Next time they ask for some money. Next time they ask for some money, too, Child.
- [55:21]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
I like that, too.
- [55:23]
Shannon Sharpe
And so that's the problem. No matter how you slice it, Ben is broken when it comes to the offensive end. Can he still slide his feet? Yeah, he's still 6, 10. I mean, he ain't gonna shrink.
- [55:37]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Looks good. Still in great shape. Look good. Look really good.
- [55:41]
Shannon Sharpe
He looks. He looks really good. But like you said, he gets the ball. He ain't. Unless it's uncontested. He ain't even looking at the rim. He's looking. He's looking to pass it off. He's looking to drive and kick. He's looking to do something other than score for himself. And he doesn't realize that. So the double team is always going to come from him.
- [56:01]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Yeah.
- [56:01]
Antawn Walker
Put him around some. Put him around some folks in the off season. I'm telling you, it happens. You put a Chihuahua. Listen, you put a Chihuahua with some pit bulls in a cage, at some point he becomes what he's surrounded by.
- [56:14]
Shannon Sharpe
But you know, the small dogs, what do they do? They walk up to the big dogs because they don't know they're small. So you telling me that's what I need to do? That's what he needs to do. He needs to go and place himself in that environment. Because, you see, as Twan said, we're wanting something from Ben more than he's wanting it for himself. You see, I Can't want that for you. You gotta, you got to want that. You've got to want to be great. So you know what, man? Hey, ain't no reason for me to be 16 and averaging three points a game.
- [56:41]
Antawn Walker
He's going, he's supposed to be doing what KD doing. I'm not saying he's kd. KD is one of the greatest scorers of all time. I'm just saying the skill set, the height and size, I mean the length that you do have, you know, and you a two way player. Cause you can do, you could do well. You only show it on the defensive side of the ball. You play good defense and you should be able to, you know, play a post. Taking people off down in the block, down in the post, mid range. They take people off the dribble like.
- [57:07]
Shannon Sharpe
What are we doing? His confidence gone though, man.
- [57:09]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Both of you guys are hall of Fame athletes. You know that. When your confidence gone, man, it's gone. You know, you can't do nothing, man. You know, we play this, you know, we play our games with confidence. That's where we get our confidence, our swag. He don't have that. You can just see it, you know.
- [57:26]
Shannon Sharpe
You have to, you have to play it. Coaches can't give you that. You have to have a self belief that I'm the baddest mofo out here.
- [57:34]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Yes.
- [57:35]
Shannon Sharpe
And at some point in time they broke his confidence. They broke his confidence because the best player said, hey, we had a dunk and we end up making a free throw. And you know, and they asked dog, could you win a championship with a point guard like Ben? He says, I don't know. Instead of saying, of course you can. Because the guy's an all. He's an all star player and he's an all NBA defender. That's what he should have said. Joel Embiid said, hey, it's unfortunate, hey, well, I wish we could have got an and one. But don't say, yeah, we had a layup and we ended up making a free throw. Cause now the best player and the head coach doubted me. I've already had some doubts seeping in. Cause normally coaches like you feel like, hey son, shoot that shot. I draw up a play for Tuan because I know Tuan is confident in his ability and he's gonna go out there every time I draw up a play for him. He's gonna somehow try to find a way to break it down and pass it to somebody else.
- [58:31]
Antawn Walker
Yeah, you know, how do you let something like that Bother you, huh? How do you let something like that bother you in order to be great? People gonna always be chirping sometimes. Sometimes the call is gonna be coming from inside the house. Sometimes to be your own people. I don't care. No disrespect. Marvin Lewis, if you were to say, you know what, boy, I'm sick of Chad out there celebrating. I'm sick of it. I ain't stopping nothing because that's how I know how I get in my rhythm.
- [58:57]
Shannon Sharpe
Right?
- [58:57]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
You know, I can agree with you on that. You know, I used to dance after I shoot threes and I was not. Nobody should be stopping. Hey, look, and I played. I promise. There was one coach that Don Nelson. I got traded to the Mavs and he was the only coach that tried to stop me from dancing.
- [59:15]
Antawn Walker
What?
- [59:15]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Yeah. He was like, hey. He was like, walt, I don't want to see you dancing. But it was already in my blood. I couldn't stop it, right? So I get a hell, it's coming. You know what I'm saying? But that's a great point you made. I understand what you said with that. That, yeah, I'mma do my thing. I'mma do my thing. Yeah.
- [59:33]
Antawn Walker
Every. Every time. Every time.
- [59:34]
Shannon Sharpe
I don't care.
- [59:35]
Antawn Walker
I don't care what. Hey, I don't care what. No disrespect, Obviously, with all due respect to Ben Simmons and the game of basketball in general, there is nothing nobody can say. If I was in that environment with that kind of sag, with that kind of hype, with that kind of skill, with my mentality, there's a certain if factor that you can coach is either in you or it's not. Kobe had it. Michael Jordan got it. AI got it. John Ron got it. Anthony Edwards got it. You can't coach that. It's just in you. And I don't understand how can you be like that and then play so small.
- [60:11]
Shannon Sharpe
I'm going to make this last point and then we're going to move on a little bit. Guys, if you think about it, yeah, Kobe had confidence. But think about what the coach did in a game against Utah. Who took the last shot? They put the ball in cold, a 17 year old's hands. So now I got confidence. You might have confidence, but if somebody don't give you a situation for you to showcase, now what. What do I do with it? Ocho, he drew up a play and let a 17 year old with all those veterans on there. Kobe air balled it, but it showed him. Yeah, they got confidence in no old cold. Now he goes back into the gym and he comes back a different player.
- [60:53]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Well, you know, some people don't get it, man. Some people just don't get it.
- [60:57]
Antawn Walker
Damn, man, wait, 6 11. Man, I have the. In the post.
- [61:05]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
I see you got a good ball back there. That's a good Wilson ball.
- [61:08]
Antawn Walker
Hey, oh, hey, hey, hey. Let me tell you something.
- [61:10]
Shannon Sharpe
Hey.
- [61:10]
Antawn Walker
This ball right here, right? This is a special ball, this ball. Mean. Must mean. I'm supposed to have it enclosed in the case because listen. And the greatest, the greatest scorer, not score of all time, but the NBA player who leads the NBA and most points ever scored gave me this ball soon as it went in the bucket. They hid it, they taped it up. He signed it for me. This is LeBron James 50K point ball. And he signed it for you. I just want to show you that.
- [61:43]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Can't put in the cursive, huh?
- [61:49]
Shannon Sharpe
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Jokic was seen making adjustments and subs. When a player does this, is he undermining David Edelman? Because right before the half, right before the half, the ball got. Whether the half or third quarter and he's like, hey, hey, give me, Give me Jordan. DeAndre Jordan, come in here, give me, come in here. Block 2, box, blah, blah, blah. You saw that too, okay, Yes, I did see that. And he's been making a lot of substitutions. You like that? I mean, what's going on?
- [62:21]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
I don't like it because, I mean, let me be honest with you. Not to go back into the past, but Mike Malone, you know, a championship coach who done a terrific job coaching that team, got fired. And it seems like the players had sold them out now, now it seems like that's what it was. And because of Joker's doing that, I mean, Joker's at a place right now, obviously, you know, where he's controlled the franchise. And obviously, like you just talked about, he's probably gonna win another MVP trophy. He's gonna be close. He probably get another MVP trophy. So I do understand a coach, him having some say so, but you still can't undermine the coach. You have to listen to the coach. You gotta let the coach make his adjustments. That's his job. You never want, as a player, have that responsibility. I never wanna be able to control who's in the game, who's not. I can always suggest. I can suggest something, but I don't want to be doing that, especially overmind the coach. It looks bad and then it trickles down to the other players. You know that on the team Some guys think they can do it. You know, it's kind of, you know, I go back to the simple rules that what time you got to be on the bus, what time you got to be, you know, be up at practice. It just goes down the line, you know what I mean? So you never want to start that. So it just, it seems like when I saw that, like, yeah, this is probably why Malone probably got fired. They probably had a lot of extra stuff going on, you know what I mean? But, you know, it's tough. Joker. Joker's probably gonna be three time mvp. I mean, this guy's.
- [63:48]
Shannon Sharpe
Well, he already three, he gonna be a four.
- [63:50]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
I don't think he's gonna win mvp. Yeah, so he thought it was hard.
- [63:54]
Shannon Sharpe
I don't think he's gonna win it this year, Tuan. But it's hard for me to see a scenario where he doesn't win at least one more because the numbers are gonna be there. The numbers are going to be there. He's going to be somewhere between 25 and 30 points. He's going to be somewhere between 10 and 13 rebounds. He's going to be somewhere Between 8 and a half and 10 assists. So he's going to be there. So the numbers are going to be indicative of somebody that should be. It should more than qualify to win that award. The question is, if he take care.
- [64:22]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Of his body the way he has taken care of his body for the next couple years, he definitely will be in the running for one more. I think this all depending on how he take care of his body. If he take care of his body injury free, I mean, I know it ain't. It don't look sexy, but, you know, if he stays injury free and stay healthy, he'll be right back. You're right. He'll be in the running for another one.
- [64:46]
Shannon Sharpe
Ahead of this game, Edelman accused the Clippers of pumping in fake noise in the Intuit Dome. Is that a good look? Do you want your coaches like, man, it ain't that loud. It ain't that many people up here. That's fake noise. You like your coach doing that, Tuan?
- [65:00]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Nah, I want the coach to believe that we can win. I don't want. We don't need no extra. We should believe that we can win. Let's put together a game plan. Let's go out there and play. And really, to be honest, you don't really like that. You want your home court to create their own thing. I know some football fields, y'all know that. Some arenas, some Stadiums have their own little chants, and when they get motivated and all that. I remember back when we was trying to turn it around in Boston, before they moved into the TD North Ranch, we had the Fleet Center. We called it the Jungle because it did get so loud. Because we were starting to turn it around. We were starting to become a playoff team. We were starting to win games. So our home games were exciting because we had kind of created our own energy now, me and Paul, and we was kind of creating our own style. So I like when the fans kind of like, you know, figured out. It's kind of like growing up in Chicago. I remember growing up and watching Michael New play, especially when they explained it, they had their own. The National. Remember the start lineup. They had that music that come out. That was them. That was their own thing. That was only in the stadium. You know what I mean? And the Orlando stadium used to be rocking. I went to see them play the Orlando Maddox in the stadium. When they played the Orlando Maddox, Shaq and Jordan came back. Yeah, the stadium used to be rocking before they moved into the United Center. I just think, you know, every arena gotta have their own stuff. But you don't need no coaches getting to that. You don't need no help. You ain't nobody piping nothing in this. Ain't these. This ain't college. These pros, they ain't gonna get distracted too easy.
- [66:24]
Shannon Sharpe
Yeah, but the new arenas don't have that intimate feel because, you know, you gotta have all this technology. You got all these Jumbotrons and you got all this fancy equipment and stuff like that. So you don't have the intimacy like you had at the old Garden. You don't have the intimacy like you have at the Forum. You don't have the intimacy like you had at the stadium, Chicago Stadium. You don't have that. Like you see the packers have at Lambeau Field or the Bears at Soldier Field or the Chiefs at Arrowhead. There's some stadium, even Hines Field, is not the intimacy like they had at Three Rivers Ocho. So when you don't have that, it's hard to create that. Now I get it why they do it. Because the cost of these players are going up. And so we got to find a way to create revenues. And we want places to have other events other than basketball. So you see concerts and you see tractor pools, and you see Beyonce and you see, you know, the NCAA Final Fours, and you see international championship games. So I get it. I get it. I totally get it. But as a professional, and plus, professional ain't college kids, man. You know, college kids gonna paint their faces, they gonna take their shirts off, they're gonna really be into it, man. Look here, man, I paid 12, $15,000 for a ticket, man. I'm gonna sit there and like, be chilling, you know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying, Dwan?
- [67:50]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Yeah, you right. That's right. You go, you're gonna enjoy it the best way you can. But I, I don't think, you know, I don't think that bothers pros. You guys know that. The fans don't bother us, man. When you, we're a professional athlete, you enjoy it, that they actually kind of motivate you. Sometimes you get to some certain places and they get on you. You can have the fans get on you. You that motivates you to go out there and play well. So I don't think that's gonna, that bothers professional athletes. So I don't think they need that. You can leave that alone. Guys are too mentally strong for that these days. To me, the volume.
- [68:28]
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- [69:31]
Daniel Jeremiah
The 40s and free agents podcast with Daniel Jeremiah and Greg Rose. Rosenthal has prepared you for the 2025 NFL Draft.
- [69:38]
Greg Rosenthal
We've told you what last year's playoff teams need to return to the postseason.
- [69:42]
Daniel Jeremiah
And how teams with new coaches should approach the draft.
- [69:44]
Greg Rosenthal
So as draft season comes to a close, we've got you covered. Before your favorite team goes on the clock. We'll break it all down once all 257 picks have been made.
- [69:53]
Daniel Jeremiah
Listen to the 40s and free agents podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. Podcasts I'm Michael Casson, founder and CEO.
- [70:04]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Of 3C Ventures and your guide on Good Company, the podcast where I sit down with the boldest innovators shaping what's next. In this episode I'm joined by Angeli.
- [70:14]
Daniel Jeremiah
Su, CEO of Tubi.
- [70:16]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
We dive into the competitive world of streaming.
- [70:18]
Talkspace Advertiser
What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core. There's so many stories out there and if you can find a way to curate and help the right person discover the right content. The term that we always hear from.
- [70:31]
Shannon Sharpe
Our audience is that they feel seen.
- [70:33]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
Listen to Good company on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [70:45]
Antawn Walker
My name is Brendan Patrick Hughes, host of Divine Intervention.
- [70:48]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
This is a story about radical nuns.
- [70:50]
Antawn Walker
In combat boots and wild haired priests.
- [70:53]
Shannon Sharpe
Trading blows with J. Edgar Hoover in.
- [70:56]
Antawn Walker
A hell bent effort to sabotage a war. J. Edgar Hoover was furious.
- [71:01]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
He was out of his mind and he wanted to bring the Catholic left to its knees.
- [71:08]
Antawn Walker
Listen to Divine intervention on the iHeartRadio.
- [71:11]
Chad Ochocinco Johnson
App, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.