Nightcap - Hour 2: Daniel Jones waived, Jets fire GM, Robert Kraft passed over by HOF

Summary

Podcast Summary: Club Shay Shay – Nightcap - Hour 2: Daniel Jones Waived, Jets Fire GM, Robert Kraft Passed Over by HOF

Introduction

In this engaging episode of Club Shay Shay, NFL legend Shannon Sharpe engages in a spirited discussion with former wide receiver Chad "Ochocinco" Johnson. The focus centers on significant NFL developments: Daniel Jones being waived by the New York Giants, the New York Jets' abrupt firing of their General Manager Joe Douglas, and the long-standing exclusion of New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft from the Pro Football Hall of Fame (HOF). Released on November 27, 2024, this episode dives deep into the intricacies of team management decisions, player dynamics, and the politics surrounding Hall of Fame inductions.

---

1. Daniel Jones Waived by the Giants

Timestamp: 02:36 – 15:00

Shannon Sharpe opens the conversation with the surprising news of Daniel Jones being waived by the Giants, highlighting the quick escalation of events:

[02:36] Shannon Sharpe: "Daniel Jones Damn. What that escalated quickly. Oo Daniel Jones has officially been waived by the Giants."

Chad Ochocinco questions the reasoning behind Jones' desire to join a playoff-contending team, probing whether it's a strategic move for his career or a genuine effort to find a better fit:

[03:14] Ochocinco: "Let me get this straight. So Daniel Jones wants to go to a playoff team."

Sharpe contemplates whether Jones is seeking a fresh cultural environment or a team with a different coaching philosophy, emphasizing the unique pressures on quarterbacks:

[04:00] Shannon Sharpe: "Maybe he needs to go somewhere with a different culture... When I look at it, maybe he needs to go somewhere with a different culture."

Discussion delves into the challenges quarterbacks face in finding the right team fit, especially in playoff-caliber environments where only one quarterback position is available. Ochocinco underscores the difficulty Jones will encounter in securing a starting role:

[05:31] Ochocinco: "The only thing that makes sense is based on what he's saying, he wants to be somewhere where maybe he's not going to be the starter."

Shay Shay emphasizes the harsh realities of the NFL, where a single weak position, such as quarterback, can undermine even the most talented teams, leading to Jones' eventual release:

[16:54] Shannon Sharpe: "Not today's game. No, absolutely not. You're gonna get exposed. And the thing that I love most about sport, but love, especially NFL."

---

2. Jets Fire General Manager Joe Douglas

Timestamp: 19:02 – 26:12

Shannon Sharpe shifts focus to the New York Jets' tumultuous season, beginning with the firing of GM Joe Douglas after a 30-64 record and no playoff appearances:

[19:02] Shannon Sharpe: "The jets are certified disaster, and they got messier today. The day began with the team firing general manager Joe Douglas."

The conversation critiques Woody Johnson's controversial decision to bench superstar quarterback Aaron Rodgers in favor of Tyrod Taylor, reflecting on the confusion and instability it caused within the team:

[19:50] Ochocinco: "Perfectly Johnson won the bench. Aaron Rollins in week four for Tyrod Taylor."

Sharpe and Ochocinco debate the implications of such decisions, questioning the Jets' strategy and the impact on team morale and performance. Sharpe highlights the inconsistency and poor decision-making that led to the team's downfall:

[20:13] Shannon Sharpe: "So the Woody Johnson. He would have."

Ochocinco draws parallels between the Jets' turmoil and the broader challenges NFL teams face in maintaining stability and effective management:

[25:22] Ochocinco: "But, hey, you, you understand that. You know how difficult that position is, how difficult it is to find a quarterback for that position."

The discussion underscores the necessity for strong leadership and coherent strategies in rebuilding a struggling franchise, with both hosts expressing skepticism about the Jets' future prospects under the current turmoil.

---

3. Robert Kraft Passed Over for Hall of Fame Induction

Timestamp: 32:53 – 39:11

Shannon Sharpe addresses the controversial exclusion of Robert Kraft from the Pro Football Hall of Fame for the 13th consecutive year, sparking a debate on the politics and criteria of Hall of Fame selections:

[32:53] Shannon Sharpe: "Patriots owner Robert Kraft was passed over again for the Pro Football hall of fame. For the 13th consecutive year."

Ochocinco criticizes the Hall of Fame committee for overlooking Kraft's substantial contributions to the NFL, comparing him to other influential owners like Jerry Jones:

[33:40] Ochocinco: "Who did Mr. Robert Kraft piss off? You notice this is deeper than what we."

Sharpe defends Kraft's legacy, emphasizing his role in the Patriots' dynasty and his positive influence on the league, while also questioning the underlying reasons for his exclusion:

[35:39] Shannon Sharpe: "Yeah, it has to be, because I don't. I don't know. I don't know what other reasons. Yeah, the man's not in."

The conversation touches on historical precedents of other influential owners not being inducted, suggesting possible biases and undisclosed factors affecting the committee's decisions:

[35:39] Shannon Sharpe: "We won't get into who hasn't been for the betterment of the league."

Ochocinco posits that Kraft's exclusion might be personal, hinting at behind-the-scenes politics within the NFL's governing bodies:

[35:39] Ochocinco: "I think it's bigger than Spygate. It's bigger than whatever issues they've had. It's something that we probably don't know about, and it's almost as if it's personal, you know, to this point."

---

4. Security Threats to Pro Athletes

Timestamp: 39:11 – 43:36

The hosts briefly discuss a pressing issue facing professional athletes today: the rise of organized crime targeting them. Shannon Sharpe highlights recent burglaries of high-profile NFL players like Patrick Mahomes and Travis Kelce, attributing these crimes to transnational crime rings:

[39:11] Shannon Sharpe: "The NFL issued a security alert this week about organizing skilled criminals who are targeting pro athletes."

Ochocinco expresses concern over the safety of players, emphasizing the emotional and psychological toll these threats can have on athletes and their families:

[42:12] Ochocinco: "I mean, there's really nothing you can do. Especially you think about family."

Sharpe advises players to enhance their personal security measures, although he acknowledges the complexities and legal limitations involved:

[43:11] Shannon Sharpe: "Guys, protect yourself. Protect. Make sure you set your alarm."

The discussion underscores the vulnerabilities athletes face off the field, advocating for increased awareness and proactive measures to safeguard their personal lives.

---

5. Additional Insights and Reflections

Timestamp: 15:00 – 39:11

Throughout the episode, Sharpe and Ochocinco delve into broader NFL dynamics, including the impact of player performance on team success, the significance of team chemistry, and the role of media-savvy athletes. They critique the tendency to blame quarterbacks for team failures, emphasizing the collaborative nature of football:

[15:02] Shannon Sharpe: "Bro, these guys mean. Come on, man. This is. Look, this is pro sports."

Ochocinco comments on the responsibility of players, especially those with public platforms, to remain media-savvy and avoid detrimental statements that could harm their teams or personal brands:

[29:04] Ochocinco: "Understanding what, why you got."

Sharpe raises concerns about the modern NFL's reliance on star quarterbacks, arguing that the game's evolution makes the quarterback position more critical than ever:

[16:51] Shannon Sharpe: "You're gonna get exposed. And the thing that I love most about sport, but love, especially NFL."

Their insights provide listeners with a nuanced understanding of the interplay between individual performance, team management, and organizational success in professional football.

---

Conclusion

This episode of Club Shay Shay offers a comprehensive exploration of current controversies and challenges within the NFL. Shannon Sharpe and Chad Ochocinco provide candid analysis and passionate opinions on Daniel Jones' waiver, the Jets' managerial upheaval, and Robert Kraft's elusive Hall of Fame recognition. Additionally, they shed light on the increasing security threats faced by professional athletes, emphasizing the need for vigilance and proactive measures. Through their expert perspectives, listeners gain a deeper appreciation of the complexities and behind-the-scenes factors influencing today's NFL landscape.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• [02:36] Shannon Sharpe: "Daniel Jones Damn. What that escalated quickly. Oo Daniel Jones has officially been waived by the Giants."
• [03:14] Ochocinco: "Let me get this straight. So Daniel Jones wants to go to a playoff team."
• [05:31] Ochocinco: "The only thing that makes sense is based on what he's saying, he wants to be somewhere where maybe he's not going to be the starter."
• [16:51] Shannon Sharpe: "You're gonna get exposed. And the thing that I love most about sport, but love, especially NFL."
• [19:02] Shannon Sharpe: "The jets are certified disaster, and they got messier today. The day began with the team firing general manager Joe Douglas."
• [25:22] Ochocinco: "But, hey, you, you understand that. You know how difficult that position is, how difficult it is to find a quarterback for that position."
• [32:53] Shannon Sharpe: "Patriots owner Robert Kraft was passed over again for the Pro Football hall of fame. For the 13th consecutive year."
• [33:40] Ochocinco: "Who did Mr. Robert Kraft piss off? You notice this is deeper than what we."
• [39:11] Shannon Sharpe: "The NFL issued a security alert this week about organizing skilled criminals who are targeting pro athletes."
• [42:12] Ochocinco: "I mean, there's really nothing you can do. Especially you think about family."

---

This summary provides a thorough overview of the key points discussed in the episode, offering valuable insights for both regular listeners and newcomers interested in the latest NFL developments.

Transcript

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[Shannon Sharpe]

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[Shannon Sharpe]

Daniel Jones Damn. What that escalated quickly. Oo Daniel Jones has officially been waved by the Giants. Saquon Barkley Rooting for a fresh Start for Jones. Jones went. Wants to go to a team. Go to a playoff team. Huh?

[Ochocinco]

Well, say that again. Wait, read that for me again. Read that for me again. Real slow. Read it for me again.

[Shannon Sharpe]

But what I'mma do, what I'm gonna do, I'm gonna play. I'm gonna press rewind, and then I'm gonna hit play. Daniel Jones wants to go to a play. Daniel Jones wants to go to a playoff team.

[Ochocinco]

Hold on, hold on.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Let me.

[Ochocinco]

Wait, wait, wait.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Let me. Let me.

[Ochocinco]

Let me get this straight. So Daniel Jones wants to go to a playoff team.

[Shannon Sharpe]

He. Not.

[Ochocinco]

He wants to go to a playoff team where they already have a quarterback. But I'm assuming he wants to go to a playoff team so we know what it feels like to win and maybe be the backup. I'm assuming that's that. What do you mean by saying that? I don't think he means to actually start or contend or compete to be the starting quarterback for a team that always has a start. A starting quarterback. Right.

[Shannon Sharpe]

According to Adam Schefter, Jones is expected to have multiple options, but likely will prefer to finish this season on a playoff contending team where he would be involved in big games rather than going to a mandarin quarterback. Needy team, not remotely. And playoff contention. But if they got. If they go. If you go into a team, you're not. I mean, that has to be what he means.

[Ochocinco]

That has to be.

[Shannon Sharpe]

But he's already been to the playoffs.

[Ochocinco]

Think about this real quick. I don't mean to break it down. I'm not sure how good you are with being able to name all the quarterbacks in the league, but think about all the teams that are playoff or in playoff contention or even in the hunt. You did not.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Huh?

[Ochocinco]

I mean, how many teams actually need the quarterback? And the one that. Yeah, that's the whole point. So I think he just wants the experience of knowing what it feels like to win and to be con. You know, be competing in the playoffs or being in contention in general. It has to be what he means.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Go to the Cowboy. But here's my thing, Ocho. When I look at it, maybe he needs to go somewhere with a different culture. Because a lot. Sometimes it is culture. You get. You get caught up, Ocho, the way they coach and the way they do things, and maybe that's not conducive for you. You get into a new situation, they practice different, they meet different, the coaches coach you different, they talk to you different. I don't know. Look, it didn't. When I heard It. I did it. I'm like, oh, you want to go through them? I can see Ocho, you're a wide receiver, you a running back, you a defensive player. Okay, I get that because there's an opportunity, but there's only one because all the other positions, right, you can have multiple positions on the. At the same time on the field, but when you're a quarterback, you can only have one. So. And I'm looking at. I'm like, well, so I go into a team that's in playoff consideration or contention, right? What are you going to do?

[Ochocinco]

Oh, my goodness. I mean, it has to make sense. The only thing that makes sense is based on what he's saying, he wants to be somewhere where maybe he's not going to be the starter. We know he's not going to be a starter, but I want to be somewhere where I can be on a team where I can be a backup if need be. I can help. But I would like to know what it feels like to be contending or be challenging for a playoff spot with that team. That, that, that, that.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Hello.

[Ochocinco]

That got to be it, obviously.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yeah. So you.

[Ochocinco]

That was a good. That was a real good one.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Elijah Martin said one question. If the all time Broncos played the all time big and one of the pride. Who wins? Stop. We stop holding oo the bass.

[Ochocinco]

Hold on. Who. Who y'all got gonna stop me? Oo Nobody.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Oo y who y'all gonna stop?

[Ochocinco]

Who y'all got gonna start?

[Shannon Sharpe]

Oo y'all got one hall of Fame player.

[Ochocinco]

You got two. Who me?

[Shannon Sharpe]

Y'all got one hall of Fame player.

[Ochocinco]

Munoz, he said we got two. I don't need them people validation. I got one hall of Fame.

[Shannon Sharpe]

No, no. So I guess you. I guess you 100 million there. You're a billionaire, too.

[Ochocinco]

No, I got. I got. I got. I got about 9. Probably about 82 million.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Hey, all I'm saying is, is that we would beat the brakes off y'all if you. Y'all best nothing. Y'all best chat. Open the chat up. Who y'all think winning the chat?

[Ochocinco]

Don't know. They won't even.

[Shannon Sharpe]

We're gonna take The Broncos best 11 players offensively, their best 11 defensive players, and we gonna take the Bengals best 11 offense. Oh, y. We gonna beat the dog boy. We gonna molly whop y'all.

[Ochocinco]

I ask you one simple question. Who the hell finna stop me?

[Shannon Sharpe]

Ocho, Y'all ain't gonna get the ball locked up. We gonna hit y'all in the back of your Damn head.

[Ochocinco]

How you gonna. All I need is two seconds. Ain't nobody getting back there before two seconds.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Oh, Lord have mercy, Ocho. But if y'all was that good, why y'all didn't win more games? Why y'all ain't got no Super Bowls?

[Ochocinco]

I ain't got nothing to do with that. It's a team game. I'm talking about me. I'm talking about me.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Da, da.

[Ochocinco]

About me.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Da, da.

[Ochocinco]

Who gonna stop me is what I asked you.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Somebody stopped your ass in Cincinnati. Y'all didn't win no playoff games, so somebody stopped you.

[Ochocinco]

It's a team game.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Somebody stopped you. It's a team game. With your level against our level, it's a team game. No, no, nobody stopped you.

[Ochocinco]

You trying to change the goddamn topic. I asked you a specific question on who the hell finna stop me?

[Shannon Sharpe]

Somebody stopped you. So who stopped you when you played with the Bengals?

[Ochocinco]

Nobody.

[Shannon Sharpe]

How many?

[Ochocinco]

Huh?

[Shannon Sharpe]

How many playoff games did you win?

[Ochocinco]

I don't know. It's a team game. I'm still talking.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Thank you. It's a team game. Our team is better than yours.

[Ochocinco]

Why you not. Why are you trying not to hear? You're not listening to the goddamn question. I said you. You is singular. I didn't say nothing about us.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Okay, Ocho, you gonna have 500 yards, and y'all still getting the hell kicked out you. Now, how about that? Hey, who gonna stop me?

[Ochocinco]

Hey, who?

[Shannon Sharpe]

Who gonna stop Shannon?

[Ochocinco]

Oh, I can. You want me to tell you who.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Gonna stop you badly?

[Ochocinco]

Well, I can tell you gonna stop you.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Oh, by the time we get Vaughn Miller, we get D Wear, we get Steve Atwater, we got Champ Bailey, y'all not moving the football. Who blocking Vaughn?

[Ochocinco]

Hey, everybody just named scared of me.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Who blocking Vaughn?

[Ochocinco]

Everybody who just named Big Will, I.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Wanna know who blocked Vaughn Hill.

[Ochocinco]

Anthony Munoz. Anthony Munoz. Big Willie. Now what?

[Shannon Sharpe]

Now? Now what, man? We going by y'all, boy. We're gonna beat the brakes off, y'all.

[Ochocinco]

And I run out out of ran and white ass over. Man, what you talking about, man?

[Shannon Sharpe]

Hey, you know what I'm gonna say. Ed, don't hit it too hard. Ed, don't hit it too hard.

[Ochocinco]

Hey, listen, you know I don't care about getting hit either. Hey, me and Champ. Me and Champ had some good battles, boy, but we had some good battle. That's my boy there.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Boy, we going to kill y'all.

[Ochocinco]

Ocho, listen, I mean, I know. I know it's a hypothetical, but it ain't sweet as you think. It is.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Oh, it's sweeter.

[Ochocinco]

I know, I know. It's a hypothetical.

[Shannon Sharpe]

We got Champ, we got. We got Akeem to leave. We got Chris Harris Jr. Man, we got Atwater, we got Dennis Smith, we got John lynch, we got Brian Dawkins. Oh, Lord have mercy.

[Ochocinco]

Everything you. Everything you just named, I'm running through with a smile on my face.

[Shannon Sharpe]

This man gonna say who go. He said it's a team game. I just said our team gonna beat yours. Then he gonna talk about who's stopping him. I thought it was a team game. Nobody.

[Ochocinco]

I just. I just. Listen, the team ain't here right now.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Have you ever. Have you ever had a 100 yard receiving game in the playoffs?

[Ochocinco]

Me? Me. You talking to me?

[Shannon Sharpe]

The conversation with the Bengals, the all time great Bengal.

[Ochocinco]

Hold on.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Are you sure? Cause that might chase in downtown Eddie Brown and Ivan Curtis. You might not even be on the roster. Why you bumping your guns?

[Ochocinco]

You crazy? You better look at the motherfucking receiving lead in every goddamn statistical category for the Bengals. You done bumped your head. Who you talking to?

[Shannon Sharpe]

Why you over there talking? You talking. You hyping up chase the downtown Eddie Brown.

[Ochocinco]

Hey, don't get too crazy like you got Covid over there.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Like you done forgot I'm with the leave on you and snatch your gold.

[Ochocinco]

You know what?

[Shannon Sharpe]

Put him on me and snatch your gold. Baby take your chain.

[Ochocinco]

He Muslim.

[Shannon Sharpe]

He bet he take your chain.

[Ochocinco]

Hey, I bet he be eating pork when I'm done with him.

[Shannon Sharpe]

I bet he take your chain.

[Ochocinco]

I bet he be eating pork when.

[Shannon Sharpe]

I'm done with him. I ain't worried about age to leave. Yeah, hell that.

[Ochocinco]

You got the right one.

[Shannon Sharpe]

You see what he did to Crab trade?

[Ochocinco]

Put him over there by himself.

[Shannon Sharpe]

We gonna win the game. A whole lot to a few, I promise you.

[Ochocinco]

No, you ain't. Trust me, you ain't. Now I'm gonna talk your whole defense out that game before the game even start.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Daniel Jones seemed to say goodbye Ocho to the Giants and their fans in today's statement to the media. And according to Jordan Schultz, there is disappointment among some giant players regarding how Daniel Jones situation was handled over the past week. Especially with players aware it's primarily a financial decision by the organization. Dexter Lawrence publicly stated on Tuesday, he's quarterback one to me. To me, he's the best quarterback on the team. One offensive player told Schultz over the phone, we're not idiots. They did this because of money, so be it. But Daniel Jones has been all class, never complained, and is not Being completely disregarded. The team record is bad. You can point fingers everywhere, try to blame him is trash. And making him third string is weak as F. The sense versus the organism within the organization go far beyond just one person.

[Ochocinco]

I, I love, I love what GL is saying. They saying all the right things obviously because they're on the but your team for anybody if, if they don't know. Even though you are playing the game of football, you're only good as your quarterback. You only as good as the person who's at the helm in control of the offense. Being able to make the right, the might, the right and the wrong decisions. I mean that's just what it is. You know, I, I, I respect Dexter Lawrence and, and, and what he's having to say and some others play other players being upset. But how can you be upset? Have you watched David Jones play the past three years?

[Shannon Sharpe]

Oh, y'all got so much to say now. Oo, why don't y'all play better? Not everybody got all that talking. You're talking your ass off now, right? What about play your ass off? Daniel Jones, you play better. Everybody that got a comment play better off though.

[Ochocinco]

So we really can't, we really can't say nothing about him. He's one of the best in the league. But they have to understand the business. They have to understand the nature of the business, especially when it comes to the money aspect of why they're benching him and making him third string quarterback. So because of that injury clause, if he happens to get hurt, because he probably would do, if they do allow them to stay in there, you know, some type of injury will pop up out of nowhere for that million.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yeah, yeah. 23 million. Yeah, but, but here's the thing, Ocho. So y'all make it seem it's about just this year. What about last year? How was he last year? Okay, he got hurt. But look at his body of work. His body of work doesn't justify 40 million and it definitely doesn't justify running the risk. It wasn't like y'all going anywhere anyway. Y'all make it seem like they benched the man like they did Russell Wilson last year. Y'all trash. Okay? Trash is a very harsh word. Y'all sanitation.

[Ochocinco]

Yeah.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Y'all a landfill. So where you going, Ocho? They make it seem like they had a chance for the playoffs if they left Daniel Jones in there. Daniel, all Daniel Jones gonna do is look worse and worse and worse. Fans are gonna have. The fans probably already stopped showing up. But what about Getting out of this. Daniel Jones is not going to be in the. In New York next year. So what am I getting out of that? I'm not winning. He's not going to be there. So what do I get by leaving his ass in the game and continues to start for it?

[Ochocinco]

I. I got a question, though. I'm. I'm confused. Anytime that players get benched, is it normal for quarterbacks to apologize?

[Shannon Sharpe]

No. What about that? For you complaining about it.

[Ochocinco]

I don't know if I've quite seen that. I quite seen that before. Is it. Or is it because it's in New York? So it's a little different. You know, I. I respect what he had to say. I respect what he had to say as far as, you know, being grateful for the opportunity. But, like, come on, man.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Bro, these guys mean. Come on, man. This is. Look, this is pro sports. And when there's only two things you can get, is it wins and losses, that's it. That's how you're judged. He's lost more than he's won. Okay? They say, well, it's not all the quarterback. Well, who's the mofo that gets the credit when they win? They ain't mentioning no offensive lineman. They're not mentioning Dexter Lawrence. They're not mentioning the linebackers who they mentioned. So the problem that I got is that when they. A lot of times people like, well, it's a team game, but y'all blame the quarterback. When you, like, here's the thing. When you like somebody, yeah, it's a team game. When you don't, it's not. Yeah, it's really that simple. You and I played this game long enough to understand how the dynamic of it work. I don't care how good. In today's game, you can't put a team, a great enough team around if your quarterback stinks back. You could before they changed all these rules. You could run the football. You could play outstanding defense. You can hide your quarterback. You can no longer hide him. He's the only position that you cannot hide anymore. Because if you got a weak corner. Oh, I play cover, too. I roll coverage. His weight, right. I can help him. If I got a weak offensive line, I can just slide protection or I can tell the back, chip your way out. If I got a terrible quarterback, what the hell am I gonna do? Hand the ball off 65 times?

[Ochocinco]

Not in this game. Not in this past second error. You can't.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Not today's game. No, absolutely not. You're gonna get exposed. And the thing that I love most about sport, but love, especially NFL. You got to update your resume. People don't give a damn what you've done in the past. They got to do it right now. Joe, he's a Super bowl champ, and, yeah, he won the mvp. And what are you doing right now? Those trophies are on his mantle. Yeah, those awards are on his mantle. Those accolades is on his resume. But what does that got to do with right now? What NightCap did in 2023 ain't got ish to do with 24, and 24 ain't gonna have ish to do with 25. We've got to keep getting better, and we gonna keep the hammer down. Getting better? Better graphics, better editing, better social. We're gonna get better at everything. That's what we do. And if we don't, I won't need to know why we're not getting better. And I don't like to ask questions. I really don't.

[Ochocinco]

We ain't asking.

[Shannon Sharpe]

No. Hey, I'm not a guy that let ask questions, because when I. By the time I come to you to ask the question, yeah, I already know the answer. Hey there.

[Michael Lewis]

It's Michael Lewis, author of Going Infinite Moneyball, the Blind side and Liars Poker. On every season of my podcast, against the Rules, I take a broad look at various characters in American life. The referee, the coach, the expert. My next season is all about fans and what the rise of sports betting is doing to them, to the teams, and even to my family. I'm heading to Las Vegas and New Jersey and beyond to understand America's newest form of legalized gambling. Listen to against the rules on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Ocho. Oh, we had this conversation. Well, let me go here. The jets are certified disaster, and they got messier today. The day began with the team firing general manager Joe Douglas, which was not exactly surprised. Douglas was 30 and 64 during the jets tenure and never sniffed the playoffs. The juicy of all was Woody Johnson wanted to bench Aaron Rodgers just four weeks into the season in favor of Tyrod Taylor. The coaches present in the meeting were stunned, according to our report, and rightfully so. Johnson backed off, but fired Robert Sala a week later. Fired Robert Sala, demoted Nathaniel Hacking. Right now, I asked you who was next. See, Green Bay got smart. Grievous in hell, y'all. You ain't gonna get me up out of here. Matt LaFleur and Brian Gudekis and Mark.

[Ochocinco]

Perfectly Johnson won the bench. Aaron Rollins in week four for Tyrod Taylor.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Right.

[Ochocinco]

So the elephant in the room who always been the problem. So you're doing all this firing where you're not getting putting the right person in the place that needs to be. Well, how you gonna. You gonna be? I ain't never seen nobody bench a quarterback that make that kind of money either. He would have. Yeah.

[Shannon Sharpe]

So the Woody Johnson. He would have.

[Ochocinco]

So now Joe Douglas gone, so.

[Shannon Sharpe]

But you met Woody. You do realize they use your jet to go fly to see Aaron Rodgers. You do realize you signed up on all this. So where's your coach?

[Ochocinco]

But also they're expecting to get the Aaron Rodgers of old. They're expecting to get the Aaron Rodgers.

[Shannon Sharpe]

They got an old Aaron Rodgers, bro. Everybody ain't gonna be. So you thought they was gonna turn right around after Tom Brady did what he did. You thought so soon right after that another guy was going to do that. What allowed Brady to play as long as he did and as well as he. He had no major injury after he suffered that ACL injury that was in 2008. So up until that he had no injuries. He had no hamstring, he had no injuries that really caused him to miss time. Aaron Rodgers was coming off one of the most serious injury a player in the sports can suffer.

[Ochocinco]

Right?

[Shannon Sharpe]

The Achilles injury. Plus he's farting.

[Ochocinco]

I don't, I don't. I don't think he takes the game as serious as Tom as well. Now. He doesn't take the game. Two, two different. He never has two totally different type of quarterbacks, especially when it comes to their approach to the game and the serious, you know, in the seriousness of it and the way they take it. So I could, I could understand if you're coming back off. If you're coming off an injury like that and you already don't take it serious. You do what you need to do to get back. It's in good gracious and health to play. But your approach is still wrong because everything you do talk about when you are on tv, it has nothing to do with the game of football.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Nothing. Oh, you.

[Ochocinco]

I just don't understand every time he speaks. It never has anything to do with damn football. There some I gotta look up in the goddamn dictionary on a goddamn computer.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Are you talking about going into the dark and he's talking about these trips and he's talking about this and talking about that. Nothing about building team camaraderie, building team chemistry. And when he could have been built, he could have been doing that. He was in Egypt Talking about a trip. Everybody know with that mandatory mini camp, you don't plan nothing around that. Oo, because that's the one that you got to be at. Oh, let me. Everybody that understands what the word mandatory means has to be there. But what he failed to realize, what he did in Green Bay ain't got nothing to do. They want to see what you're going to do for the Jets. You heard Tarber. I said it when I went to Baltimore. Them Pro Bowls, those All Pros, those Super Bowls, that ain't got. I've done nothing in Baltimore. I've got to come in, work my ass off to let them see how I became the player I became while I was there. Peyton said it. Tom so eloquently laid it out. He like, what. What I accomplished in New England got to do with Tampa. Tampa getting. Tom getting his teammates. Hey, let's go to the park. It's in co. We ain't supposed to be in the park.

[Ochocinco]

That was funny.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Payton getting his guys together. He getting. He grabbed up Julius and Decker and, and, and, and, and, and Julius Thomas and. No Sean. Hey, let's go throw, guys. I think Stokely was there at the time. Or Welker. Let's go. Hey, let's go throw. Let's, let's. Let's build up some chemistry. Let's build up a bond. Let's get to know. Let me. Let me tell you where I want to throw the foot. You tell me where you want the ball, and let me tell you what I'm looking for on this route. Nah, let me go over to Egypt. I've already got this trip planned. Hey, so it is what it is, and he want. If. If I'm the Jets, I need somebody to explain to me why would I.

[Ochocinco]

Want Aaron Rodgers next year?

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yes.

[Ochocinco]

If. If Aaron Rodgers is not done. If he's not done. He sign. He signed. He signed two years, didn't he? Oh, he has another year.

[Shannon Sharpe]

He has another. I'm sure he does. Right. But for what? Why do I want. Tell me what, Tell me, why do I want him? Mocha. What am I getting? A 41 year old that's a year older than what he is now. So what? He's gonna gain speed, he's gonna get faster?

[Ochocinco]

You know what a better question is? If. If you don't want him next year, what's your next option? What's your next viable, viable option where you can compete and you can, you can, you can contend.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Can I compete with Aaron Rodgers? You telling me what I can't do without him. What can I do with him? The three and eight. So tell me, what can I do with it? Because I can. I can be 3 and 8 without you and save 50 million. Hell, you in last place in the division if you finish last place in the division with him. I can't finish in last place in the division without him.

[Ochocinco]

But, hey, you, you understand that. You know how difficult that position is, how difficult it is to find a quarterback for that position. You. You know that it takes a while. Yes.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Have they found one? They got one in the position. About that.

[Ochocinco]

That's. That's even best. Even better question.

[Shannon Sharpe]

He's been there two years. He. Yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna disregard that.

[Ochocinco]

No.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Do they got a quarterback right now?

[Ochocinco]

They thought take.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Take Rogers off the back. Take Rogers off the back of the jersey.

[Ochocinco]

No.

[Shannon Sharpe]

You bringing that guy back next year.

[Ochocinco]

And if he did, if he does get the grace to come back next year, it's because of what he'd done in the past. If he does get the grace to come back next year, it's based off what he's done in the past.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Okay.

[Ochocinco]

Oh, he's gonna, he's gonna get some grace.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Absolutely.

[Ochocinco]

Based on that alone.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Michael Parsons apologizes for Mike McCarthy. Comment. When I'm talking, when I'm talking about here, I'm thinking about the Dallas Cowboys. I have no reference. I was in the middle school, elementary school, and Mike McCarthy was a packer. See what I'm saying? Not a student of the game. Most players are historians of the game. The really good ones. Ask TJ Watt about the defensive player. Ask TJ Watt about the history of the game. Ask moving forward. I was. Mike McCarthy was with the Packers. I have no reference to that. Wow. I wouldn't even say that. Yeah, see, remember we talked about Anthony Richardson? Right. And how he shouldn't have said certain things. See, if you keep your mouth closed, people won't know what you don't know. But when you open your mouth, you remove all doubt. I have no reference. So obviously, no disrespect to his career and what made. What he made for himself is one of the winningest coaches. I, I could have done better, but I thought you didn't say anything. Who apologizes for the company?

[Ochocinco]

Don't jump. Flash on what he said, the context of what you said, the way. In the way.

[Shannon Sharpe]

But if you write, if you write I'm standing on it, are you standing on it, too? You ain't apologizing without your right. Hell, you don't want to apologize when you're wrong. So I know damn with gd well, you ain't apologizing when you're right. But anyway, let me continue this long face. Usually I am. I think people would take that out of context. Okay. They took it how you said it. I wanted to hurry up. I wanted to hurry up out of the locker room. Next time, I'll be very careful about what I say. So that's my apologies.

[Ochocinco]

What you think about that? You should have kept his mouth closed, huh?

[Shannon Sharpe]

We never knew what he didn't know. You don't know what you don't know and people don't know what you don't know until you open your mouth and then you remove all doubt whether or not they know what you know. That's the part you see, I was hearing out of the locker room two things that can never be taken back. Words spoken and deeds done. Be careful what you say. Be careful how you treat people. I'm done. At some point in time. Ocho, we got to stop using excuses. Oh, he young, he young. He ain't no better. 25 is young. He ain't too young to cash that check.

[Ochocinco]

Hey, you know what? I think most of the time also as well, I mean, the players, especially those that have podcasts, those that, that like to talk, especially to the media, obviously being a part of the Cowboys, you know, anything you say, anything you say is magnified because of the star on your helmet. You gotta look, you gotta be a little more, a little bit more careful, a little bit more media savvy. Everybody's not media savvy. Understanding what, why you got.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Hell, you got a podcast, then if you're not media savvy, you're in the media. You're held to the same standard. You fake reckless, you become reckless.

[Ochocinco]

That's what I'm saying.

[Shannon Sharpe]

What if a. What if a media. What if a media member said, I I don't know who that player was? You would eat his ass up. It's your job to know. It's embarrassing. These kids to the young men, they're not kids. These grown ass men, their. Their kids masquerading as grown men. And it's embarrassing. They don't realize how embarrassing it is. Yeah, I just, I just wish guys, I wish. I just wish these players today, some of them, not all, there's no such thing at all. There's no such thing as every. But a lot of these players, they fooling the fans because we get up here and they talk about what they want to do. And I just want to win. You want to win, but you want to get your numbers. You want to win, but you want to get your stats. Sometimes winning requires you not to do that. And it's okay because at the end of the day, yeah, who doesn't? Ocho? I would, but we won. How do I go in good conscience and complain about not getting targets and catches? And we won the game. So is it about my numbers or is it about wins? I just know what it takes to win without a best player. Am I the best player?

[Ochocinco]

Right.

[Shannon Sharpe]

I just know what it takes to win. And everything that I told you, everything that I've said, y'all come back. Oh, you don't know. But that Jordan B. Situation, I told y'all a lot of stuff. Told y'all about A.B. y'all. Oh, no, no. Let that man free. Not. Look at you. Why ain't nobody offer. The man ain't got no job, y'all. Y'all was gassing them up. Y'all put a battery in his back. Duracell. No, it was. It was a rechargeable battery, and y'all kept it plugged up. All I want to do. I'm not entering anything Ocho, that I can't win at. That's why I don't do a whole lot. I'm gonna be great at what I do. I don't want to be good at a whole lot of ish. I want to be great at a few things. That's it. Some people are born great. Some people have greatness thrust upon them. It doesn't matter which one you fall under. What do with the greatness? Theodore Roosevelt. It's embarrassing. Cowboy. Y'all are.

[Ochocinco]

Damn.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Hopefully we be done with that. Hey, there.

[Michael Lewis]

It's Michael Lewis, author of Going Infinite Moneyball, the Blind side and Liar's Poker. On every season of my podcast, against the Rules, I take a broad look at various characters in American life. The referee, the coach, the expert. My next season's all about fans and what the rise of sports betting is doing to them, to the teams, and even to my family. I'm heading to Las Vegas and New Jersey and beyond to understand America's newest form of legalized gambling. Listen to against the rules on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Patriots owner Robert Kraft was passed over again for the Pro Football hall of fame. For the 13th consecutive year. Robert Kraft bid to become a Pro Football hall of Famer remains on ice. The committee overseeing Hall's Contributor category bypassed Kraft in favor of Ralph Hay, who helped set up the original meeting for the league to become the NFL. Kraft supporters would note that since Jerry Jones, who has overseen three super bowl teams, is in the hall of Fame, Kraft should be considering he's won twice as many while also serving on one of the game's most influential figures.

[Ochocinco]

Hey, who. Who did you know this is a. Is it.

[Shannon Sharpe]

I didn't even know. Oh, Jordan, you know, I am. I'm a historian. I didn't know who Ralph was.

[Ochocinco]

Who did Mr. Robert Kraft piss off? You notice this is deeper than what we. What we think it is obviously for him not. Huh.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Because they've been lying. Let me tell you what's happened. Let me tell you what's happened when everybody. When all these reporters said Spy Gate wasn't that big of a deal, it was a bigger deal than what they previously said because I believe they hold this man culpable for some of the things because if he didn't know, he should have known and this happened under his ownership. You can think of only way. That's the only thing I cuz. Have you ever. I. I don't know how much he's been around him, but I've been around him. He's an unbelievable. He was unbelievable. He's one of the nicest men I've ever met. He's cordial. He's always asking, how you doing? How you feel? He honest. He's like, I appreciate. I can tell. Hey, I can tell you do a lot of work. A lot of work. And I said some things about his team, about some of the players and some of the things on his team. He shook my hand, he said, I'll see you around. And he turned and he turned around and he went, I don't get it because like I said, oo. I've been stopped thinking I knew what a Hall of Fame was. When I saw some guys, right, that didn't get in on the first ballot. I said, I don't know what a Hall of Fame, you know, you know.

[Ochocinco]

How that voting goes. You understand the politics that go that that goes into and that that's behind it, especially with those that are doing the voting, that are in positions of power and are allowed to control the narrative on who's allowed to get in and who's not. But especially when it comes to an owner like Robert Kraft, what he was able to do since he's became owner of the New England Patriots and winning the Super Bowl, Zaddy was able to win with Bill Belichick and Tom Brady, the fact that he hasn't been let in yet. I think it's bigger than Spygate. It's bigger than whatever issues they've had. It's something that we probably don't know about, and it's almost as if it's personal, you know, to this point.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yeah, it has to be, because I don't. I don't know. I don't know what other reasons. Yeah, the man's not in ocho. They won six, they lost two. They've been till 10 NFC championship games. Matter of fact, they've been more. Probably been more. Hold on. Have they been. Let's see, they lost to the Broncos twice. They lost to the Ravens and they lost to the Colts. So they've been to fourth.

[Ochocinco]

Is the New England Patriots. Make it look so easy. They think people. It makes people believe it's easy to do. They could be won over and over and over and over every year that people or the casual fan think it's easy to do. And you wonder why teams continue to struggle reaching that type of consistency year in and year out. It's very, very difficult. It's hard. It's hard to win. It's hard to win a game.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Gonna see this again, let alone continuously.

[Ochocinco]

Go back to the super bowl year in and year out.

[Shannon Sharpe]

And let the man. The man's 83. What the hell y'all waiting on? Y'all gonna wait the man and then have his son Jonathan and whomever else out there on the field let that man enjoy this effing moment. They should have done put art model in the only time in NFL history they made the man leave the colors and the records. They didn't do that to Bud Adams. They didn't do that to Al Davis. Al went up and down the coast. Oakland, la, Back to Oakland, Louisiana. Back to Oakland. The bagels, they still. And they didn't leave not one color. They didn't leave not one record. The Rams, St. Louis Blood. Adams left. Left Houston. Mr. Adams left Houston, went to Nash, went to. Went to Memphis and whatever. Kept the records. The Colts left Baltimore in 84 like a thief in the night and did not tell the NFL with the Mayflower vans. Go look it up. Ain't leave nothing. They made Art leave the colors and the records. And he was on the TV committee. Monday Night Football. A lot of things. The. The Players Association. Come on. What are we doing here, owners? I'm trying to figure out why. Why, why, why the reporters are so helping. What did y'all lose? He Left for the same reason all the other owners leave. Money. He asked them to help him upgrade the stadium. He leaves, and guess what? They did. They built us a bigger stadium with nicer amendment on effort. Lake area. While municipal stadium. And if you're from Cleveland, you know it was a dump. Toilets overflowing. It was a dump. But y'all want this man to go bankrupt, Build a nice stadium on that Lake Erie. Y'all wouldn't get a man to die. Yeah. Now he's gone. Now wife gone. One of his sons, David, his oldest. Young. Gone. Personal, what are we doing?

[Ochocinco]

Personal.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Let Mr. Crack the man 83. Y'all want the man to grovel? He's been one of the greatest ambassadors that you could ask for as an owner. One of the best. And he does everything for the betterment of the league. I can't say all of the owners have been like that. We won't get into who hasn't been for the betterment of the league. But I think your guys know Mr. Kraft has always done everything. What is in the best interest of the league. Ocho. The NFL issued a security alert this week about organizing skilled criminals who are targeting pro athletes. Including the recent burglaries of Patrick Mahomes and Travis Kelsey, believed to be tied to South American crime syndicate. Yes, they got your boy. FBI is investigating. The crime wave of international organized crime is legit. One source familiar to the situation told Tom Pelissero. It's trans. It's a transnational crime ring. Over the last three weeks. Nah, hell no. Last three years, they focused on NBA and NFL players. It's all over. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.

[Ochocinco]

I need. We not talking about home invasions. I mean, how are they doing this as far as the crime ring, what's going on?

[Shannon Sharpe]

There's a South America, there's a gangs. They come up. They target athletes because what does that have? Money. They have jewelry. They have valuables. Stuff that I can get in, I can fence, get off of. Pennies on the dollar. Anytime I take something that I didn't pay for, I don't give a damn if I don't give it. 15 bucks. That's 15 more bucks than I paid for. So that's money in my pocket. You're still a high end. Watches. Hey, mine got hit for a meal. Took all. Every last watch I had. And they took. What else they took? They took my Christopher backpack, all my C links, all my eyeglasses.

[Ochocinco]

But this. This ain't even. This ain't even hit the news. I ain't know. None of this happened.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yeah, they hit. I think they got. They got Draymond. They got a couple of NBA players. I mean, a couple of years. Couple years, yeah.

[Ochocinco]

Knowing where players live when they're not home.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yep. Somebody say players need to see booby trap. Nah, you can't booby trap, y'all. They send you after dream.

[Ochocinco]

How you gonna go to jail for booby trapping your own house? To catch a thief going in.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Do it and find out. Yeah, they got wi fi drammers and everything. They. Hey. Oo, they good?

[Ochocinco]

Hey, these are normal criminals. These are. These are.

[Shannon Sharpe]

No, no, no, no. They good. They're in and out. They know alarms. Hey, they're gonna hit it. They're gonna. They're gonna get whatever they get in about 20 seconds.

[Ochocinco]

That's scary though, huh?

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yeah.

[Ochocinco]

I mean, there's really nothing you can do. Especially you think about family. People that have family and kids, you know, your wife, your kids there. Especially when you out of town. Hey, that. That. That gets scary.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yeah. Guys, protect yourself. Protect. Make sure you set your alarm. Make sure it's a good idea. Now that I'm thinking about it, you go into jail. Ocho movie traps are illegal. They will put you in jail. Even if you catch somebody that's stealing your stuff, you're going to jail, I'm telling you. I ain't telling you something. Somebody told me. I'm telling you what I know. There's documented cases, but he was stealing, but he was doing that. Yeah, but you can't do that.

[Ochocinco]

Ah, so much for the justice system.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yeah, you know, you gotta have, you know, 24 hour security. It's. It's unfortunate that you have to have that, but, you know, high end, high end people got it, you know, and it's unfortunate the volume.

[Michael Lewis]

Hey there, it's Michael Lewis, author of Going Infinite, Moneyball, the Blind side and Liars Poker. On the latest season of my podcast, against the Rules, I'm exploring what it means to be a sports fan in America and what the rise of sports betting is doing to our teams, our states, and ourselves. Join me and listen to against the Rules on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your free iHeart app and search against the Rules. Listen to against the rules on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.