Judy Smith: Found 600 Miles Away, Wearing Stranger's Clothes

Summary

Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore (Crime House)
Episode: Judy Smith: Found 600 Miles Away, Wearing Stranger's Clothes
Date: July 8, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, hosts Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore dive into the perplexing case of Judy Smith—a 50-year-old nurse who vanished from Philadelphia in April 1997, only to be found dead five months later, 600 miles away in North Carolina. Wearing clothes that weren’t hers and discovered on a remote hiking trail, Judy’s puzzling disappearance and murder have never been solved. The episode meticulously unpacks the timeline, the enigmatic evidence, witness sightings, and prevailing theories, asking listeners to weigh in on one of true crime’s most baffling cold cases.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Judy Smith: Her Background and the Disappearance

[05:11 – 11:35]

• Judy Smith was a Boston-based nurse with two grown children, known for her street smarts, adventurous spirit, and a nurturing personality.
• She married Jeff Smith, a healthcare lawyer, after a long courtship, blending their families. Judy was independent, dedicated, and well-traveled.
• In April 1997, Judy accompanied Jeff to Philadelphia for his conference—their first trip as newlyweds.
• On April 9, Judy forgot her photo ID, leading to separate flights to Philly (she took public transport home to retrieve it, then arrived late that night).
• On April 10, Jeff left for his conference around 9am, last seeing Judy in their hotel room as she planned to explore the city. They agreed to meet at 5pm.

“That is the last time that Jeff will see Judy alive.” — Kaelyn [05:11]

2. The Search and Early Investigation

[15:10 – 29:47]

• Judy failed to appear that evening; Jeff searched the city, called hospitals, and contacted her children, but found no sign of her.
• Police delayed the missing person report—a common (but criticized) practice at the time.
• A massive search kicked off only after Jeff appealed to powerful conference attendees and authorities, resulting in city sweeps, poster campaigns, and media appeals.
• Dozens of reported sightings came in, but many led nowhere or were later attributed to a local woman resembling Judy.
• Some witnesses placed Judy in Philadelphia and nearby areas, including a Macy’s in New Jersey, where a woman matching Judy’s description was seen buying clothes and trying to chat up strangers.

“Her kids said her mom loved shopping [at Macy’s]...the visit didn’t strike her as odd at all.” — Morgan [25:33]

• The hotel’s key card records were a point of contention, with conflicting staff accounts about Judy’s presence and activities.

3. The Missing Items and Initial Suspicions

[27:22 – 38:45]

• Sgt. Ann McGinley’s search of the hotel room found women’s clothing, but no toiletries or Judy’s toothbrush; her day-worn underwear were missing.
• There was cash left behind in the room ($500), with Jeff estimating Judy only took about $200 with her—odd if she planned to flee.
• Police were suspicious of inconsistencies. Jeff had no record of domestic violence and was proactive in his cooperation, but refused a polygraph unless administered by the FBI (“He’s a lawyer,” Kaelyn notes).
• Jeff’s lawyerly approach and his hiring of three private investigators raised both suspicion and admiration for his thoroughness.

“He wanted it [the polygraph] to be administered by the FBI...you already see him, like, negotiating the investigation.” — Kaelyn [36:01]

• Judy’s friends said she was unhappy in the marriage, potentially seeking escape; her children disagreed, believing their mother wouldn’t just leave without a word.

4. The Shocking Discovery: Judy in Asheville, North Carolina

[41:44 – 46:08]

• On September 7, 1997, hunters in Pisgah National Forest (NC) found a partially buried skeleton later identified as Judy’s through dental records—thanks to a doctor who remembered a poster mentioning her "bad left knee."
• Judy’s wedding rings were still on her, along with $167 in cash. She was wearing clothes her family didn’t recognize and had a “blue and black backpack,” not the red one she was known to carry.
• Stab wounds on her bra and the circumstances suggested a violent death and hasty burial, not an accident.

“She was stabbed. And in a shallow grave. Yeah, someone partially...tried to bury her.” — Morgan [60:14]

5. Asheville Sightings and the Enigmatic Timeline

[46:09 – 49:56]

• Witnesses in Asheville recall seeing a woman matching Judy's description—alert, talkative, referencing her husband’s conference in Pennsylvania, shopping, looking for work at a doctor’s office, and driving a gray sedan none of her family or known friends recognized.
• At both Macy’s in New Jersey and a Christmas store in Asheville, she tried to persuade unknown young women to leave with her, seemingly mistaking them for her daughter.
• Motel and campground owners noted she came alone, seemed calm, and even bought a toy truck—odd since she had no small children or grandchildren.
• There is no record of her renting a car or withdrawing cash, and the gray sedan was never identified.

6. Theories and Lingering Mysteries

[52:11 – 58:47]

• Could Judy have planned to leave her marriage and start anew, as some friends speculated? Her assertive personality and prior divorces suggest otherwise, say her children.
• Some theorize she suffered a sudden-onset medical or cognitive issue (amnesia, early Alzheimer’s or dementia). Her mistaken identification of strangers as her children and odd behavior seemed consistent with cognitive decline.
• Online theories range from a secret lover rendezvous to an encounter with a serial killer (Gary Michael Hilton), but neither fits the evidence cleanly.
• The case is hampered by administrative lapses (delay in entering her into national databases) and poor coordination between police in PA and NC.
• DNA evidence has been processed, but there’s been no match to a suspect as of the episode’s recording.

“I think you have to go with the simplest concept here...but so much of this theory and every other involves inventing motives for complete strangers, so none of it feels satisfactory.” — Reddit user cited by Kaelyn [57:37]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Which today’s case does include a little bit of travel and a forgotten ID at home.” — Morgan [04:09]
• “Jeff was being really meticulous about this search too...when he couldn’t find Judy, he ended up calling her kids.” — Morgan [16:07]
• “Had Judy Smith even been in Philadelphia at all?” — Kaelyn, raising the unsettling investigative doubt [26:56]
• “[Stacy, the clerk] realized she hadn’t even worked that day...now a seed of doubt had officially been planted in the investigators’ minds.” — Kaelyn [27:22]
• “Her killer left behind some belongings and buried her in a shallow grave, and then they disappeared, seemingly, I guess, without taking any of her money.” — Kaelyn [52:01]
• “Bears don’t dig shallow graves. There was like, you know—they don’t.” — Kaelyn [60:39]

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Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment | |---------------|------------| | 05:11 | Case background and Judy Smith’s bio | | 11:35 | Judy’s forgotten ID and odd gaps in timeline | | 15:10 | The search intensifies and first missing person report | | 21:47 | Witness sightings in Philadelphia and New Jersey | | 27:22 | Hotel room search and missing items | | 31:51 | Suspicions about Jeff Smith, discussion of the marriage | | 41:44 | Discovery of Judy’s remains in NC | | 46:09 | Asheville sightings and mysterious details | | 52:11 | Theories: escape, illness, serial killer, fugue state | | 55:26 | Cognitive decline and missing time theory | | 59:52 | Hosts encourage listeners to submit theories |

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Conclusion & Calls to Action

• The case remains unsolved after nearly thirty years, with cold evidence and no arrests.

• Both hosts are particularly haunted by the unexplained elements—the unfamiliar clothes, the missing car, the gaps in both timeline and behavior, and the method of murder:

  “It’s just there are so many things that don’t make any sense.” — Kaelyn [59:57]

• Listeners are invited to share theories, especially about:

  • How Judy could have covered such distance,
  • The nature of the sightings (cognition vs. intent),
  • The source of the unknown clothing and car,
  • And the motive behind the murder.

• The episode closes by urging listeners to participate in cold case awareness and to report any tips to the Philadelphia Police Department or Buncombe County Sheriff’s Office.

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Help Solve Judy Smith’s Case

• Philadelphia Police: 215-580-8111
• Buncombe County Sheriff (NC): 828-250-4503

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Follow the hosts on social media or comment on @CluesPodcast (Instagram) or @CluesPod (YouTube) to join the conversation and submit your crime-related field trip ideas and theories on the case.

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This episode stands out as a poignant, bewildering journey through the unsolved disappearance and murder of Judy Smith—framed by sharp forensic insight, compassionate narrative, and an open-ended invitation for sleuthing from the audience.

Transcript

[A]

The government gets a bad reputation. But did you know? The roads under your feet, the forecast on your phone, the letter in your mailbox, that's all government, too. I'm Lindsay Cormack and I'm hosting a new podcast called Government that Doesn't Suck alongside Greg Jackson from History that Doesn't Suck. Each episode we tell the surprising story of an American institution. From the postal service to the weather service to the national parks and the parts of government hiding in plain sight. Listen to and follow Government that Doesn't Suck. Available now wherever you get your podcasts.

[B]

This is Crime House.

[C]

A couple is on their first trip together as newlyweds in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. The husband has a conference to attend while his wife goes out to explore the city. Only she never returns.

[B]

Five months later, Judy Smith's body is found 600 miles away in Asheville, North Carolina. She's on a remote hiking trail wearing clothes that aren't hers.

[C]

No one knows how Judy got to Asheville, who she met on the trail, or what led to that brutal murder. But today, we're going to follow the clues and try to find out.

[B]

Hi, guys. Welcome back to Clues, where we sneak past the crime scene tape to explore the key evidence behind some of the most gripping true crime cases.

[C]

I'm Kayla Moore and I'll be the one digging deeper into the timelines, the backstories, and the court files released on these cases.

[B]

And I'm your Internet sleuth, Morgan Absher. I'm the one who's pulling out anything I can find online to talk about those lesser known details and pull out the threads that just don't add up. Don't forget to share your thoughts on social want ad free listening and early access. Subscribe to Crime House plus on Apple Podcasts and make sure to go back and listen to our previous episodes wherever you get your podcasts. Now let's get into Judy Smith's case and the clues that defined it.

[D]

And we're live from the living room as Doug eyes up the match. Say spread. He's reaching for the buffalo wing. Perfect. Hang on. What's this? Oh, he's gone for a can of Pepsi too. Incredible. What a finish. Sensational combination. Look at the delight on his face. No doubt about it, it just tastes better. Match days deserve Pepsi. Food deserves Pepsi. Grab a pack of Pepsi. Zero sugar for today's match. It's poetry in motion.

[E]

Plan B is a backup birth control option that's there for you when things don't go according to plan. It specifically works after unprotected sex and before pregnancy occurs by temporarily delaying ovulation. Plan B is available nationwide at all major retailers and through delivery apps like DoorDash. No ID, prescription or age require. It's the number one OB GYN recommended brand of emergency contraception and it won't impact your future fertility. That's freedom to be use as directed.

[C]

You know, an interesting comment that I saw from a listener tell me a little while ago is on the when we were talking about Mariah Wilson and we were talking about Caitlyn Armstrong, right. How she got the plastic surgery to look different, someone was like, I check IDs because I work at a bar for a living. So I'm constantly looking at people all day and trying to like match features to faces. And I think they said that even they wouldn't have known known that Caitlyn was the same person, which I thought was really amazing. Like, yeah, she would have fooled everyone.

[B]

I would have been completely fooled. Also, I need to redo my passport photo because when I was at the airport once, someone looked at it and they go. And then they look up at me and they go, what happened? It was pretty brutal. But I'm like, what?

[C]

Do you look really different in your photo?

[B]

I don't think, is it like an older photo? It's just like I got cute that day, I took a cute picture and I don't travel cute.

[C]

Have you seen on social media people do like the passport photo makeup or like the driver's license makeup and you just like look incredibly snatched in your, your license photo. And it does make me want to go get that picture retaken cuz mine is atrocious.

[B]

But yeah, but then you travel and look like crap and then people are like, what happened? This ain't you.

[C]

You look haggard.

[B]

Haggard. Yeah.

[C]

Oh, that's horrible.

[B]

Which today's case does include a little bit of travel and a forgotten idea at home.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

This one's a doozy.

[C]

This one I'm still kind of banging my head against a wall about and we're gonna get into it and I need everyone who's listening to be in the comments.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Letting me know what you think is going on. Because even over lunch we were talking about this one.

[B]

Like, what do you think happened happened?

[C]

It's so hard to wrap your head around.

[B]

You guys are gonna have so, so many theories when we get to the end of this case on Judy Smith. So again, yeah, please put them all in the comments.

[C]

Yes. And if you are watching this on YouTube, you're gonna see some pictures maybe Some videos that kind of help you visualize the case. And if you're listening, you're gonna see all those same things on our social media. That's at Clues podcast on social, which you should follow. Anyways. We post a lot there.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. There's a reaction video of Kaylin coming real soon that she, she came across some evidence for a case she, she shouldn't watch.

[C]

I'm not going to believe what I found in an evidence file that was linked in the research it and we got it on camera of me watching that.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Looking at it in real time.

[B]

It rhymes with corn. You don't want to miss that. So go to the clue's Instagram.

[C]

I'm still recovering. Okay. And with that we're going to get into it. So this case starts on the morning of April 10, 1997. Inside a room at the DoubleTree Hotel in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania is 50 year old Judy Smith. And she's getting ready for her day. Judy's husband, 52 year old Jeff Smith, is a specialist in healthcare law. They're from the Boston area, but they're in Philadelphia because Jeff's moderating a panel at a pharmaceutical conference at that hotel. And because Jeff has to work during the day, Judy has a lot of time to herself while she's there. She doesn't really mind though, because she loves to travel and she loves exploring new cities and in fact, she's actually already mapped out her route for the day one that's going to take her to the Independence hall and then the Liberty Bell. Around 9am Jeff heads out of their room to go down to the conference. But on his way there, he notices that there's a free continental breakfast set up on their floor. So he swings back to the room to tell Judy to stop by if she's hungry. And Judy, who's undressed, she's about to jump in the shower, jokes that she couldn't possibly go out to breakfast like this. And Jeff laughs and then confirms their plans to meet back at that room at 5pm before they join some colleagues for a cocktail party. Then he says goodbye to his wife and he makes his way downstairs to the lobby. And that is the last time that Jeff will see Judy alive. So before we get into what unraveled, let's back it up a bit and talk a little bit more about Judy. So Judy was born Judith Elridge on December 15, 1946. And she was raised in a small town of Orleans, Massachusetts, right on Cape Cod, where her parents ran a little diner. She had a twin Brother and a younger brother. Although old newspaper articles said that she would eventually grow estranged from both, there's not really any specifics available as to why. What we do know is that right out of high school, Judy jumped into her first marriage. It seems like it was a little bit rocky from the start. Apparently, when her husband fled to Sweden to dodge the Vietnam draft, Judy refused to just wait around for him to return. So instead, and this says a lot about Judy, she tracked him down in Europe, and she actually flew out there to go retrieve him herself. Judy did come back alone, though, and this time, she was single. However, Judy did find love again. Her second marriage was to a man named Charles Bradford, and together they had two children, Amy and Craig. This marriage also, though, didn't seem to work out. They parted ways before the kids were even in school, and Judy mostly raised them by herself. At that point, Judy was putting herself through nursing school, which was a really good fit for her. Everyone that knew her said that she had this really big heart. She always wanted to help people that were in need. So to make that dream come true, and also to get her family off of Welfare, Judy worked 70 hours a week, taking on whatever job she could find to give her kids the life that she thought they deserved. She dropped them off at the movies, and she would study outside in the car. They said that she loved them to a point of almost embarrassment. She even showed up at their jobs when they got older. She would bring them donuts.

[B]

What a mom.

[C]

I know, I know. She was really, really great, really dedicated, very hardworking. But it was because of all that hard work and dedication to her kids that she earned enough to finally buy a house in Boston's Mission Hill area. And now that Judy was making more money, she also spent it on things that she loved. One of those things being travel. When her kids were young, Judy drove them from Boston to Florida. One Christmas with a tree strapped to the roof, she drove for 27 hours. She only stopped to take a really quick nap. And when they got older, she backpacked with them through Spain, France, and Italy. She took them all over the world. She also traveled solo through Europe and to Thailand, visiting family of a former patient. Judy prided herself on her street smarts and also her toughness. And she was known for being assertive and blunt whenever the situation called for it. But that was what made Judy so special, the fact that she could be incredibly honest and strong. And she was also very soft and nurturing. Her friends described her as someone who took people into her life and would make them better. And there was one story that we found that we really loved about Judy. But apparently there was a time when Judy was on a flight and a fellow passenger started having a medical crisis. She jumped in without any hesitation to help the stranger. And she ended up staying with them after the flight to make sure that they were okay. Even though, I mean, we're sure that she had somewhere to be. And that was just the type of person she was, which is why being a nurse was perfect for her. And this actually brought her to another pivotal moment in her life. In 1987, when Judy was 40 years old, she was hired to provide home care for a patient in the Boston area who was recovering from throat surgery. The patient's son was a 42 year old lawyer named Jeff Smith. Jeff was immediately smitten with this confident, capable woman like Judy, who had two kids of her own. Jeff was a single parent who had primary custody of his daughter, also named Judith, from a previous marriage. But their backgrounds could not have been more different. Judy had grown up being working class, and Jeff was raised with money. In his prime. Jeff's father was a pretty famous New England criminal defense attorney. Jeff had since followed in his dad's footsteps, becoming a healthcare lawyer. He even graduated with a degree from Harvard Law in 1969. But when it came to having fun, the two of them had a lot of the same interests. They both loved going to the theater, they were devoted Celtics fans. And he never forgot this one moment that showed who Judy truly. One day, his father needed an IV drip, but there wasn't a stand in the house, so Judy improvised. She grabbed a curtain rod off of a window and used that to hold the bag. And it was these little moments that stuck with Jeff for years to come. And as they got closer, their families began blending too. At first, they did take it slow. They dated for seven years before she finally moved into his house in Newton, Massachusetts. And they lived together for another three years before finally getting married on November 10, 1996. So five months later, Jeff and Judy planned their first trip together as a married couple. And this was the trip that we opened on, where Jeff had been asked to moderate a panel at the Northeast Pharmaceutical Conference hosted at the Doubletree in Philadelphia. They figured that they could sightsee and spend some time together during his off hours, which is why Judy tagged along. So the day before our story started, the couple shared a taxi to Logan International Airport so they could head to the conference. And their flight was scheduled to leave at around 1.30pm but when they arrived at the gate, they hit a snag, and Judy was actually turned away because she had forgotten her photo id. Now, to be clear, some of you might remember going to the airport pre 9 11. It's very different than it is today.

[B]

Yeah, you could, like, walk your parents to the gate and say goodbye as they left without going through security.

[C]

I know stuff we can't even really imagine today. They did check your ID at the gate, though. And even still, this requirement in 1997 was relatively new the year before. In 1996, you actually didn't need a photo ID to fly domestically at all. So there is a chance that Judy maybe forgot her ID because she didn't need one last year to travel. Like, maybe this was a new thing she had to do.

[B]

I've done it last year. It happened to me last year. I forgot my wallet up in Duluth. I was flying out of Minneapolis, and oh, my gosh, literally the steps you have to go through to fly without an ID is insane.

[C]

That is always my biggest fear. I feel like I check for my ID like 700 times when I'm in the airport. Like, do I still have it? Do I still have it? Because, yeah, it's just a nightmare if you don't have it.

[B]

I got really lucky because they. They're not even supposed to check a bag for you without your id. But, like, I was flying my preferred airline and they are my friends. Yeah, but you have to get, like, basically strip search. Your whole bags are opened up. They go through every little thing. Like, it's very challenging today. So, yes, it happens to people.

[C]

It does happen. And so maybe that is what happened to Judy. But this kind of was a flag for Jeff as, like, being kind of strange because Judy was a really experienced traveler and she was also a really big planner. So she was the kind of person that believed that if you were on time, you were already late. After realizing the mistake, Judy told Jeff that he should just get on the flight without her. She said that she would run home, grab her license, and then catch a later flight. And at first, Jeff didn't really want to keep this plan. He sort of fought Judy on it. He said that he would go home with her and they could just both figure out how to get to the conference later. But Judy insisted that he stay, catch this flight, and she would make it down by that night. And eventually, Jeff did give in. He got on the flight while Judy took public transportation back to their house. She didn't want to take a taxi, which would have been quicker to do and that maybe was because she was trying to save money. But it did take her longer to get home. Eventually, she did make it home, though. She grabbed her id and then she went back to Logan Airport and finally got on a 7:30pm flight to Philly. But even with how much extra time she spent on public transportation, there were still a few hours in Judy's day that were unaccounted for. Now, no one knows what she did that afternoon before heading back for the next flight. Remember, the original flight was 1:30. She didn't really get back to the airport until much later in the day. And so it seems like there's a couple of hours where people don't really know where she was. Though she did make it on the plane that night. And at 10pm that evening, Jeff found Judy waiting for him near the front desk of the Doubletree lobby. He said that she even brought him flowers to apologize. And Jeff didn't mention anything unusual about Judy's behavior when they finally did reconnect. So after Judy met up with Jeff, they took the elevator up to their room on the 24th floor. They shared a pizza. They talked about their plans for the next day. Jeff had to be at the conference until about 5 that evening. So Judy planned to go explore the city on her own and then just be back by the time that he had finished. So later that day, at 5:30pm, Jeff went back to their hotel room. He was gonna freshen up and grab Judy for the night. Only Judy wasn't in the room. She had gone out for the day, perhaps, and just still wasn't back. One of the first things that crossed his mind was that story about Judy helping that stranger on the airplane. Now, knowing Judy, he figured that she probably helped to stop someone in need. Maybe she got caught up talking to a stranger while she was out and she was just running late because of that. If that was the case, though, she might have also just been too caught up to even call him and let him know. I guess back in the day you would have had to call the hotel and, like, leave a message.

[B]

Leave a message for him at the front desk. Yeah.

[C]

But eventually he thought, wait, maybe Judy had actually beaten him, back to the room, gotten ready, and was downstairs waiting for him for the cocktail party. So he got ready himself and he went down there. But still, Judy was nowhere to be found. So after spending some time going back and forth between the room and the party, Jeff figured that it was time to ask someone for help. He spoke to the concierge, and together they Started calling local hospitals, thinking that maybe something happened while she was out and she just wound up in the hospital. But none of the hospitals said that they had any patients that met Judy's description or had Judy's name. Jeff ended up flagging down a cab and he drove him around the city just searching for Judy.

[B]

Yeah, I read somewhere that he basically paid this cab driver to go like 5 mph and trace the route that her tour bus would have taken. And he did it. He did laps. Yeah, he was like really out there looking, just like looking.

[C]

And yeah, so he was like Judy had told him she was going to take this one tourist bus. So they were just following that same route, like thinking she'd maybe gotten off or something.

[B]

Something.

[C]

Jeff was being really meticulous about this search too. And that upset the cab driver. When he couldn't find Judy, he ended up calling her kids, Amy and Craig, who were now in their 20s. They were back in Boston and he asked them to check their home answering mach machine just in case they got any messages. But there was nothing helpful on the machine. By 7:30pm Jeff knew that it was time to call the police, but they told him it was too early to file a missing persons report now. Yeah, this is also a different time. I mean, I hate saying that, but like it, like the laws were just different back then.

[B]

They still could have taken it somewhat more seriously.

[C]

A little bit more seriously. Because it is so odd that she's just gone.

[B]

She's just gone.

[C]

Yeah, they had plans. There's nothing that would have indicated she wouldn't have been there.

[B]

And no, I mean, you're calling hospitals unaccounted for.

[C]

Yeah, but this is all. I just, I feel like it's.

[B]

Should we hold off? Do you think it deserves a hold off?

[E]

I don't know.

[C]

I'm just, I'm trying, I try to go through my head and be like, well, why would they have done that? Because I mean, back then they just didn't have cell phones. So it's not like, let me call her directly. She's not answering, her phone's off, whatever. It's like maybe she's just talking to someone at a restaurant. She hasn't called you, even though a few hours is a long time. And like I would be concerned also, but it's like 1997 almost feels like a different world.

[B]

Cell phones weren't that common. Like when was the first, like Nokia, like early 2000s.

[C]

I feel like people had cell phones.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, 1998, my dad had a Cell phone. Like the Nokia. One night, I made it into a submarine in the bathtub.

[C]

Oh, my God. Oh, no.

[B]

Yeah. But, like, it wasn't.

[C]

I remember paging my dad. Oh, wow. Paging the codes for, like, groceries and stuff to my dad in the 90s.

[B]

Yeah. So I get it. I mean, even today, they're like, wait 24 hours.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So. Yeah. Okay. Okay. We can.

[C]

I know. I feel like we just covered a case, too, where we were just marching up the box.

[B]

I know.

[C]

Watch board.

[B]

I might be getting a little too much happy.

[C]

We give them benefit of the doubt.

[B]

Yeah, we'll hold off.

[C]

Jeff ended up having to keep just looking on his own, though, because he was not getting any help from the police. He spoke to his colleagues at the conference, and together they started calling media outlets that night to spread the word about Judy's disappearance, just to get something started so that people knew she was missing and maybe they'd keep an eye out for her. The next morning, April 11, Jeff and his friends contacted two other people who happened to be at the conference. Philadelphia Mayor Ed Rendell and State Representative John Pertzell. Jeff made it clear Judy was a tourist visiting Philadelphia for fun. If she had indeed gone missing, it would be very bad for the city's image, and for that reason alone, they should help him. And this tactic worked. Later that day, Detective Captain John McGinnis of Philadelphia Central Detectives was assigned to the case along with six other officers. And police began a massive sweep of the city, searching popular tourist spots like the Italian Market and Penn's Landing, a waterfront park on the Delaware River. From there, they searched homeless shelters. They looked at churches, subway trains, buses, bus stations, and also psychiatric institutions. They also checked Chinatown, specifically because Judy was fond of Asian food and her friends thought that maybe she would have gravitated towards that area. But there was no sign of her anywhere. Like, no trace that she had even been in Philadelphia, really. Meanwhile, two detectives and a Doubletree security officer inspected the stairwells, maintenance areas, closets, and trash suits, all at the hotel. Again, nothing. So that day, Jeff and his friends started plastering missing persons posters all across the city. Someone had to have seen Judy. And surprisingly, a lot of people came forward saying they thought they did. This episode is brought to you by Factor. We've all been there. You're completely exhausted. Hunger hits you, and you stare at the healthy ingredients in your fridge, knowing you just don't have the energy to cook. I mean, that's literally me every day. I realize eating healthy isn't a willpower problem. It's a setup problem, which is why I started using Factor. Factor completely solves that setup problem by delivering chef crafted dietitian approved meals straight to your door. It helps me hit my nutrition goals this season without the hassle of grocery shopping or prepping, which is pretty much impossible when you have a five month old at home. Whether you want more protein, weight loss or glp, one support factor offers nutrients dense whole food meals free of artificial ingredients. They have over 100 rotating weekly options including globally inspired flavors and new ready to eat salads that heat up in just two minutes. I have used Factor for a while now and I think you'll enjoy it because it makes eating well entirely effortless. Head to factor meals.com clues50off and use code clues50OFF that's C L U E S50OFF to get 50% off and free daily greens per box with new subscription only while supplies last until September 27, 2026. As a young adult, finding the right path to your future can feel overwhelming. It starts with Europe United's tuition free job training program, Career Pathways. If you're without a bachelor's degree but have a high school diploma or ged, you can get Skills first training to succeed in the industries you're passionate about, all while earning a weekly educational stipend to offset basic expenses. From there, you'll have access to internships and hands on experiences with Fortune 500 companies. And with year up United's job placement services and personalized coaching and mentorship, you can put your knowledge, skills and most importantly, confidence into practice. Apply to Europe United today and take the first step toward achieving the career you want. Visit yearup.org to learn more.

[B]

In the first few days after Judy's disappearance on April 10, 1997, police received dozens of reported sightings in and around Philadelphia. That collection of sightings is our first clue. Let's start with the ones close to the hotel. There was A bus driver reported picking up a woman matching Judy's description on the afternoon of her disappearance. She said she dropped her off at a store right near the Doubletree where Judy was staying. Another witness saw a woman matching Judy's description near the intersection of Broad and Locust, just a few blocks south of the Doubletree Hotel. They said the woman was chasing a piece of paper that was blowing on the ground. She was smiling and laughing to herself, seemingly in a good spirit. There was another witness that said they saw Judy at the Greyhound bus terminal in Philly, which was only a 10 minute walk from the hotel. But they didn't See her get onto a bus, actually, which is why her family believed that she may have stopped there to use the restroom at some point, Especially because it was near Chinatown, where they think that she may have gone out to eat. Like, everyone's so confused. They're just really starting to speculate Based on all these sightings coming in. But the police were able to confirm that Judy never bought a bus ticket, so she didn't get on a bus to go anywhere. Soon, though, investigators started running into a problem with some of these sightings. Apparently, there was an unhoused woman living on the streets of Philly, and she looked a lot like Judy, so much so that even her son actually ended up confusing this woman for his mom, because he actually flew down to end up helping in the search. And just randomly, while walking, he spotted this woman from across the street. And he was so convinced that it was Judy that he started crossing the road to approach her and then realized it wasn't her. Like, once he got up, up close.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

But like that. Convincing of a doppelganger.

[C]

Yeah, right.

[B]

On April 15, five days after her disappearance, an unhoused man told the family that they had just missed Judy. He actually had slept on a bench next to her the night before near Penn's landing. When they asked him if he was sure it was Judy and not the other unhoused woman in the area, he said he was certain. He even confirmed it by looking at Judy's picture. But when the family finally searched the area around Penn's landing, there was no sign of her. There were a lot of other sightings A bit further outside of Philadelphia. One was at a Macy's in a mall in New Jersey, which was about 12 miles away. There, a salesperson and a customer Both independently described the same woman. They both said she was wearing a red backpack, which Judy did have a red backpack and carried a lot with her, like it was a purse. But there are two different versions of what these women said. Actually, the Macy's employee noticed the woman buying clothes and struck up a conversation with her. The woman said that she was shopping for her daughter, but that her daughter never really liked anything she bought her. The employee also claimed that it looked like the same woman was trying to get another young woman to leave the store with her. The other witness, a shopper, said that this woman was approaching strangers, Talking to them about menopause, which just kind of felt odd and out of place to them. Now, these accounts are a bit hard to ignore for two reasons. First, two witnesses mention this red backpack Which Judy did have. She was very known to carry this. And also when Judy's daughter Amy heard about this Macy's trip, she said her mom loved shopping there. The visit didn't strike her as as odd at all, even if it was outside of the city. And Amy said that the joke that her mom had made to the employee about how Amy never likes the clothes she buys her, that was true and did really sound like a comment her mom would make, but a little confusing about why the employee would have seen her trying to convince another woman to leave with her.

[C]

Yeah, that is odd.

[B]

So just odd interactions in these apparent sightings.

[C]

Now, beyond the massive amount of sightings, detectives were dealing with a different issue, and that's that none of Jeff's acquaintances or fellow attendees at the conference reported seeing Judy there at all. Keep in mind, Jeff and Judy had only arrived the day before, and Judy did get in pretty late. And he had said that they went straight up to the room for pizza once she got to the hotel. But even so, it kind of struck detectives as strange, especially because one detective said the hotel's key card system had no record of a key being issued to her. But a hotel general manager contradicted that. He told reporters that the Doubletree did not track the plastic key cards issued out. So of course they didn't have a record of literally anyone that was in the hotel. For that matter, the registration clerk on duty the night that Judy arrived, a woman named Stacy Bong, also disputed police. She claimed that she remembered Judy showing her an id and in return, Stacy gave her a duplicate key. But Stacy was also maybe not the most reliable witness. For starters, Judy. She remembered Jeff giving Judy flowers, which was the opposite of what he told police happened. And on its own, that can just be written off. Yeah, to be fair, it is usually a man that gives a woman flowers. So maybe she's just making an assumption. Maybe she just saw them holding the

[B]

flowers or he passed it back to her for her to hold, like, who knows?

[C]

Yeah. It seems though, there were like a couple other issues with her recollection though, because Stacy also said that she had seen Judy in the lobby on the morning of April 10th, the day she disappeared. But after revisiting her schedule, Stacy realized she hadn't even worked that day. So I don't know what's really going on with Stacy. But now a seed of doubt had officially been planted in the investigators minds. Had Judy Smith even been in Philadelphia at all?

[B]

Well, on April 11th, the day the formal search began, Sergeant Ann McKinley was sent to check Jeff and Judy's room at the hotel, and she did find some signs that a woman was indeed there. There was some women's clothing in the dresser drawers and hanging in the closet. But it was the things that were missing that she found super strange. Which brings us to clue number two, the missing personal items. For example, Sergeant McGinley couldn't find any toiletries that might have belonged to Judy in the bathroom, Only a bag of pink curlers. Her kids did admit, though, that Judy wasn't someone who wore makeup, so it's possible she didn't even bring any with her. But there was also the fact that there wasn't so much as even a toothbrush in the room for Judy, which I will admit. I forget my toothbrush traveling every trip.

[C]

Morgan's like, yeah, that would be me, too.

[D]

I'm.

[B]

Despite traveling so much, I'm genuinely, like, a horrible traveler.

[C]

I'm getting worse as I'm getting older, too.

[B]

I know.

[C]

Like, I forget more now every trip that I take.

[B]

Yeah. But Sergeant McGinley just kept going because she also found it odd that she couldn't locate any of Judy's undergarments from the day before. She said that, like, all of the underwear in the room appeared clean. So did Judy wear that same pair of underwear for two days?

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

And I'm like, how are we telling if the underwear are clean?

[C]

That was no, like, literally my thought, too. Like, the poor investigator that has to, like, go through all the underwear and,

[B]

like, also look for stuff also, I don't know. People wear. Depends. Maybe she wore a pad for incontinence. Like, you don't know.

[C]

Like, yeah.

[B]

How are you determining these underwear are clean?

[C]

Yeah, if that's the only, like, metric you're going by is, like, the cleanliness of the underwear.

[B]

On top of that, Jeff had given investigators a description of Judy's outfit from the day she disappeared. But he had told them that the last time he had seen her, she was about to step into the shower. So they started to, like, really kind of be suspicious of, like, well, if she was getting into the shower, isn't she naked? How'd you see her in clothes?

[C]

Yeah, right, right. How would you know what she was wearing when she disappeared?

[B]

And finally, there was the issue of the cash. Jeff believed that Judy had taken about $200 cash with her when she left that day, but there was $500 left behind. If Judy did plan to run off intentionally, Then police didn't understand why she would leave all of that money back in the room. It was starting to seem like Jeff's story had some loose threads and police were they were going to try to pick apart all of them Foreign.

[C]

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[C]

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[B]

It turns out that Judy's friends had concerns about her new husband, 52 year old Jeff Smith. Now, Carolyn Dickey had known Judy for years, and she just had this feeling that something might have happened between Judy and Jeff before this trip, making their relationship our third clue. Carolyn thought Judy had intentionally left her ID behind so that she could take some time to think things over, maybe have some time away from Jeff. And it wasn't just Carolyn who felt this way. Judy's other friends spoke up too. They all said that Judy was unhappy in her new marriage. Apparently Jeff had become too needy for Judy, and as someone who always prided herself on her independence, it was just kind of becoming too much. Judy had told them that Jeff wanted her to socialize more than she was comfortable with, that he expected her to take over paying their household bills. And he had been staying home from work more just to spend extra time with her. And then there was the matter of the prenup. Jeff had asked Judy to sign one before they got married, and it had upset her. She felt like Jeff didn't trust her. Ultimately, Judy signed it anyways, just before tying the knot, but she didn't really read it. And that was kind of like her own form of protest.

[C]

Oh, that breaks my heart. That's not how you protest because then you could just really screw yourself over.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Prenups are supposed to protect both parties. You're supposed to both have lawyers when you form a prenup. But, you know, kind of hearing this out, we see this on Twatiks, on Reddit stories all the time.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Even though they had been together for nearly a decade, marriage can shift the dynamic of a relationship. And seemingly to Judy's friends, that's what was happening here.

[C]

Yeah, of course, of course. Everyone is reading Strangers right now. The Bell Burden book.

[B]

Okay, I know.

[C]

And it's a story of a woman who. This is not a spoiler because it happens in the first 10 pages, but she's been married to this guy for 20 plus years. They have teenage children and one day he's like, I don't want anything to do with you or our children. I'm taking everything. Bye. Just divorces her, leaves her.

[B]

Was he a doctor and then became a lawyer?

[C]

Oh, I forget exactly what he was. He, he had a really good job. He like worked in finance and then like worked his way up the ladder. So he had a lot of money. But because of, I guess, the prenup that they had signed, he Was entitled to, like, everything he had made post getting married.

[B]

It's insane. I just talked about this, too. On to our takes, and we have a story where it comes up about this woman who was a single parent essentially, while she supported her husband becoming a doctor and then becoming a lawyer. And he ended up divorcing her, taking everything, and marrying his secretary.

[C]

Oh, my God.

[B]

And so I'm like, prenups are something to take very seriously and not a lawyer. There's obviously a lot that goes on behind all of this, but he was a lawyer, so she should have at least, you know, made sure she was being protected in all of this. I know.

[C]

It breaks my heart.

[B]

So a lot of Judy's friends kind of thought because of this, like, she was over it. She wanted out. But Judy's kids, Amy and Craig, they felt very differently. They said that their mom loved Jeff, and if she was unhappy, she was the type that she would have spoken up about it. She was very assertive. It wouldn't have been a secret. Her family thinks that she never would have just taken off, especially without telling them that she was going. Also, she'd been divorced twice before. Why wouldn't she just get divorced again?

[C]

Like, she'd already been through the process. She'd been through it.

[B]

It's not the scary thing for her. Jeff also insisted that he and Judy were doing really well. But here's something that could be considered a little fishy. The police said he did refuse to take a polygraph test to confirm his honesty. This will become kind of a major point of contention between Jeff Smith and the Philadelphia pd. They claimed Jeff denied their request point blank. But Jeff has a very, very different story. Jeff said that he did agree to take the lie detector test, just that he had a few conditions. He wanted it to be administered by the FBI. And if he passed, he wanted the Philadelphia PD to formally request the FBI's involvement in the case.

[C]

Which, to me, I'm like, because he's a lawyer. Like, he's a lawyer.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You already see him, like, negotiating the investigation.

[B]

I mean, we talk about this all the time. Polygraphs don't really hold their weight.

[C]

And he would know that, too, I imagine. Like, as a lawyer, he probably went over that in law school. Yeah, imagine Maybe in the 90s, I guess. I don't know where the science was at. But, like, yes, you can already see his, like, negotiating skills coming out.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

And from Jeff's perspective, too, he, you know, kind of talked about it. Always felt like the police were saying, she ran away she was never there to him. He's like, they're not taking this case seriously. Yeah, I'm willing to do it if you start taking it seriously.

[C]

Well, especially for, like, his perspective too. He's like, oh, they don't think she was ever here. They think I did something to her.

[B]

Exactly. Or she.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. So it just already looking bad from his perspective, I imagine.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. And he was also worried that there was a chance Judy wasn't in Philadelphia anymore. So he was also looking at this as like, let's just be proactive. Let's get the FBI involved so we can take this search further and cross state lines. As an experienced lawyer, Jeff really seemed to be making strategic moves. Plus, the more time that passed, the less likely he looked like a suspect. There was no history of domestic violence between them, at least none that was reported, which could be a hallmark sign in a case like this. Jeff was cooperative with the investigation, even letting police interview his stepdaughter at one point without him there. And he hired not one, but three PIs to start his own private investigation. He drove around the city. He plastered thousands of flyers everywhere.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Detectives also were able to confirm with the airline that Judy had gotten on her rescheduled 7:30pm flight on the night of April 9. She had made it to Philadelphia after all. And of course, Jeff had a very solid alibi for April 10th. He was at the convention all day

[C]

around April 17th, which was one week about after Judy vanished. Jeff really had no choice but to return to Massachusetts. The search appeared to be going nowhere. The Philadelphia PD refused to escalate this case to the FBI, which I don't know if we want to hit that on the box.

[B]

It's feeling like it's due, it's time.

[C]

Especially because now we're like, if they think that she was still in Massachusetts or she never made it to Philly, then it's already crossed state lines. So you kind of want to get the FBI involved. So it's weird that they're, like, not trying to get this escalated at all.

[B]

Also, Philly is, like, really close to other major cities. Like, I took an Uber from Philly to New York.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, it's close. Yeah, it's easy to get easy to cross state lines. And again, you have your main person of interest willing to cooperate and take a polygraph if you'll just take it seriously.

[C]

Yeah. From his office back in Newton, Jeff faxed and mailed over 9,000 missing person flyers to be put up all along the east coast from Maine, all the way down to Florida. Meanwhile, those three PIs that he hired were not finding any results. Aside from no additional sightings, they couldn't find any digital footprint of Judy whatsoever. Her credit cards had not been used. She hadn't tried to get cash out of her bank account either. Publicly, Jeff still wondered if Judy had become disoriented or confused. Maybe she had been suffering from some sort of medical episode. I mean, we do see that in missing persons cases sometimes there was just, like, a really, really, like, viral one on social media where a girl's dad went missing and he was having some sort of. I don't know if it was, like, a stroke or whatever, but, like, was just very confused and went missing.

[B]

I mean, out of nowhere. Yeah. Untreated UTIs can cause delirium.

[C]

Oh, my God. My grandma's going through that right now. She already has Alzheimer's. And it's wild how fast you deteriorate older and you have a uti.

[B]

Exactly.

[C]

Really scary stuff. So. But this is all, like, Jeff is just, like, sitting there at night, like, literally thinking about, like, every single thing

[B]

that could possibly happen in his brain.

[C]

And this is one of the things he comes up with. He had confirmed that just a few weeks before she disappeared, Judy had gotten a physical and was declared healthy. He also spoke to three different neurologists about the possibility of Judy becoming suddenly disoriented or, like, maybe being affected by some sort of amnesia. And they all agreed that it was very highly unlikely. Not impossible, but the chances of that happening. Like, they would have been shocked if that was really what had happened. Still, Jeff was really looking for an avenue that didn't involve foul play. It seems like he just really didn't want to believe that that could have been what happened. A month after Judy vanished, Around May of 1997, Jeff learned some pretty frustrating news. Judy's disappearance hadn't been posted to the National Crime Information center right away, even though the Philadelphia police told him that it had botched.

[B]

Botched.

[C]

In fact, they'd only just posted it recently. That's, like, the stuff that I used to do as an assistant. Like, oh, yeah, I know. I sent that email. And then you, like, run to your desk and you send it because you, like, told someone that you already, like, sent it. It just feels like. Like, lack of attention to detail and just like a very basic administrative task of someone just has to update this database that she's missing. And they didn't do it. And then. But they said that they had.

[B]

I mean, to not do it within A month.

[C]

Horrible. Like, that's a lot of. That's so much time.

[B]

We know how crucial the early hours are exactly.

[C]

If, on the chance that Judy was disoriented or had forgotten who she was and she wandered outside of the Philadelphia area, that meant no one in law enforcement or healthcare would have been to identify her basically in the past month. And so months went by without any further progress. But in September of 1997, which is now five months after Judy vanished, the most shocking twist turned up in the most unlikely of places.

[B]

On September 7, 1997, a father and son were deep in the Pisgah National Forest in North Carolina, roughly nine miles outside of Asheville. They were out hunting deer in a remote, steep section of the woods when they stumbled upon something that just made their blood run cold. Which is our fourth clue. Human remains. More specifically, a partial skeleton poorly buried in a shallow grave. The rest of the bones were scattered over a 300 foot radius, which suggested that wildlife had been kind of picking them apart for months. They immediately called the sheriff's department. When they arrived with the pathologist, they concluded that the victim was a white female, probably in her late 40s to mid-50s, with an arthritic left knee. Their report also described puncture wounds and cuts on her bra that were consistent with stab wounds. Even though her remains had been decomposed, they knew this meant that she had likely been stabbed to death. The problem was there was nothing with this body. There was no ID that was going to help them identify the victim quickly. It took an emergency room physician named Dr. Parker Davis, living 65 miles west of Asheville, to actually put the pieces together. He had read an article about the remains two days later on September 9, and he had actually seen one of those missing persons flyers that Jeff had

[C]

sent out, one of the 9,000 that he had plastered. That's wild.

[B]

He remembered seeing that poster and how it described how Judy had a bad left knee. He faxed. Yeah, I know you guys. Faxed that article about the remains to the Philadelphia pd And they called Jeff to then get Judy's dental records sent to Asheville. The records confirmed that the body found in the woods 600 miles away from Philadelphia was in fact, Judy Smith. Shortly after Newton police delivered the news to Jeff, the Buncombe County Sheriff's Office now had its own set of questions they needed to unravel. Like how did Judy end up 600 miles away in Asheville? And who would have stabbed her to death? One of the first things they examined were the items found with her body. Our fifth clue that included a blanket she had been wrapped in. Judy's diamond engagement ring and wedding band were still on her finger. There were some winter clothes and $80 that was found inside of a blue and black backpack found in a small hole near the body. Not a red backpack.

[C]

Very important.

[B]

Very, very different. There was also a men's shirt buried separately nearby, along with $87 in the pockets. Investigators also spotted a pair of Bole sunglasses laying near the body. Judy herself was wearing jeans, boots, and thermal underwear. Clothing consistent with someone who planned to go hiking in the area. But here's the thing. Judy's family and friends confirmed that none of the clothing on her body was hers. No one recognized it. They also insisted that she never would have bought a pair of these Bolle sunglasses. Bole is like this high end French sports brand. Judy was known to be frugal.

[C]

I mean, we even talked about it with. She wouldn't take a taxi back to her house. She, like, had to take public transportation. Yeah, yeah. And which her friends said was, like, really consistent with the choices she would make about money.

[B]

Exactly. And with none of the clothing being hers and her wallet and ID missing, and the fact that this is a different colored backpack, not the red backpack that she'd use kind of as her purse. And at this point, these investigators from Buncombe county believe that all of these belongings left at the scene might have actually belonged to the killer. And just to be clear, like 600 miles, it's a nine hour, 18 minute drive.

[C]

Yeah, right. It's far.

[B]

It's far. So all of this is looking so odd, especially given Jeff saw her in the morning and they had plans together at 5. How did she end up here?

[C]

By October of 1997, Judy's case had officially gone from a missing persons investigation to homicide. And it had only gotten so much more confusing. It was now being handled by two different agencies in two different states. And there was little to no coordination between the Philadelphia PD and the Buncombe Sheriff's Department in Asheville. Now, the Buncombe team believed that the suspect was probably someone that was local to the area. This was a place that was way too remote for someone out of town to have stumbled on this trail. They concluded that Judy had probably been led by her murderer and killed there. The terrain in the area rendered it impossible for someone even in excellent health to carry a body out that way. So investigators began by asking a simple question. Had anyone seen a woman from Boston in the area as far back as April? And they did get some hits.

[B]

Asheville is a much smaller city than Philadelphia, especially back in 1997. It's still very kind of small, tight knit community today. Very artsy. But it also still had this neighborhood feel. It also had a big music scene, so there were always people passing through, which meant an outsider like Judy could have blended in somewhat easily. Still, there were quite a few sightings that really stuck out to investigators, which is why these Asheville sightings are clue number six for us. Multiple witnesses reported seeing a woman matching Judy's description in the days immediately following April 10, the day she disappeared. A retail clerk who worked at a Christmas store in Asheville clearly remembered her encounter with Judy. She said that a woman came in, introduced herself, and said that her husband was an attorney. She specifically told her that he was at a conference in Pennsylvania and that she had decided to come down to Asheville while he worked. Joanne said that Judy appeared alert, happy, completely at ease. But something happened just as Judy was actually leaving. She reached out towards a young woman nearby, a complete stranger, and tried to take her outside with her.

[C]

Which is what happened at the Macy's, right? She was trying to get someone to leave.

[B]

How eerie is that?

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

It appeared to the store clerk that Judy believed the stranger was her daughter. The young woman pulled away, and Judy left the store alone. There was another witness that came forward, and while we don't know when this encounter actually happened, she said that Judy tried to apply for a nursing job at a local doctor's office, but they told her to come back when she had a resume with her. The manager of the Plaza Motel in Biltmore Village, just a few miles outside of Asheville, was almost certain that Judy had checked in and stayed for a couple of days. That was in mid April. He said that she arrived alone in a car. He said Judy had a long conversation with his wife, who was also a nurse. In addition to discussing their shared professions, the woman talked about flowers and art. The manager, his wife, and a maid from the hotel all said they recognized Judy from a picture. And there was also a campground owner in the area who said something similar. Judy had pulled in in a gray sedan with a bunch of boxes and bags in the car. She asked if she could just stay there and sleep in her parked car overnight. The owner told her no, she peacefully left, and we're not sure the exact distance, but the campground wasn't far from where her body was later found. The car detail was confirmed again by a deli owner in the area who said Judy had pulled up in a gray sedan and bought $30 worth of sandwiches, along with a little toy truck. And to investigators, this truck is kind of odd because both of Judy's kids are grown by this point, and she doesn't have any grandchildren. Now, no one who saw Judy felt that anything was off about her. She didn't seem confused or upset. She wasn't acting like someone who might have been in danger or on the run. And North Carolina wasn't unfamiliar to Judy. She had reportedly been to the state twice before, but she had never seen the Asheville area specifically. And then there's that gray sedan. Multiple witnesses mentioned it, but it's never really been explained. Neither Jeff or Judy owned a gray sedan. There's no rental records that were ever found. The car and the plates were never able to be identified either. No surveillance footage, nothing to have a positive identification on it.

[C]

But now Judy's case was being looked at through the lens of a homicide investigation, not just a missing persons investigation. So In September of 1997, Buncombe county officers traveled to Newton, Massachusetts, to interview the only person of interest that they had, and that was Jeff Smith. But the officers quickly cleared Jeff, really just on practical grounds. So the terrain where Judy was found was very steep, and it was really remote, and they just could see that Jeff wasn't in great shape. Essentially, they were like, there's no way that he got out here with Judy and murdered her. His attendance at the conference on April 10 had also been independently corroborated by multiple witnesses, meaning that his alibi was reported rock solid. And the officers closed the book on Jeff as a suspect after that. But the Philadelphia police department never officially cleared Jeff. The case was profiled on the television show unsolved mysteries in 2001, but it didn't generate any new leads. Jeff Smith later passed away in 2005, still wondering who had killed Judy. And the timeline, at least as investigators see it, is probably as follows. So Judy left Philadelphia voluntarily on or around the morning of April 10, 1997. For reasons that have never fully been established, she made her way to Asheville, North Carolina. She was alive. She was lucid. She checked into the Plaza Motel. She walked around town, talked to clerks, talked to some customers in various shops. She may have bought some new clothes. She may have driven a gray sedan to a campground. She may have even gone on a hike with a stranger. At some point after April 12, Judy ended up in the woods off a remote trail in the Pisgah National Forest. And that's when she was stabbed to death. Her killer left behind some belongings and Buried her in a shallow grave, and then they disappeared, seemingly, I guess, without taking any of her money. It is now almost been 30 years, and not a single arrest has been made in Judy's case. As of this recording, it still remains open with the Buncombe County Sheriff's Department. And because her case is so, so unresolved, there's a few interesting theories, really, that the Internet's come forward with.

[B]

Yeah, there's one thread investigators never pulled, or at least not publicly. But some people did theorize that because things were maybe rocky in her marriage, at least according to Judy's friends, there may have been a mystery person waiting for her in Asheville. Was Judy dissatisfied? Was she upset enough to try and run off and start a new life? Was she just trying to take a couple days to meet maybe someone she was having an affair with? Judy's family denied that possibility. It did seem out of character for her. Everyone said that Judy was fiercely loyal to her family, and she wasn't one to avoid conflict. And they kind of all speculated that if Judy wanted out of her marriage, she would have said so because she had done it before. But I will say, you know, maybe from Judy's perspective, and because of the prenup she signed, maybe she felt like the odds of having an easy divorce were against her. So maybe there's a possibility she was having an affair with someone. As we know, they've never named a suspect in Judy's murder. There's plenty of armchair sleuths out there that have their own theory as to who might have killed her. The first is Gary Michael Hilton, who is a convicted serial killer known as as the National Forest Killer. He targeted hikers and campers all across the Appalachian mountain region. In 2007, he murdered a retired couple named John and Irene Bryant, who were out hiking in the Pisgah National Forest, same region Judy's body was found. Unfortunately, other than the location of the bodies, there's not a lot else that lines up with him, though. And the timeline could be a little off for it to make sense. It's possible Gary was killing people before his known murder spree, but he was primarily suspected of murders committed between 2007 and 2008, a full decade after Judy's death. And the M.O. doesn't exactly match. He would typically rob his victims, and Judy's wedding ring was found on her, as well as $167 of cash. And the method was different. Detectives did look at him, but he was eliminated as a suspect and remains now on death row in Florida. And so the case kind of circles back to all of the questions that haunted investigators for years and continue to do so. How did Judy get to Asheville? Why'd she go there in the first place? Who murdered her? And might they have gone on to kill again? Now, we do know that investigators have processed evidence, they've done DNA testing, there's been a forensic analysis on personal items. But we do know that authorities have not matched any of the genetic material recovered to a specific suspect. Unclear if it's in codis. Unclear, you know, if there's enough to submit. That's kind of all we have based on that. But it does give us hope that maybe there is something that could lead to solving this.

[C]

I'm seeing, like, I'm just kind of going through the, like, just what people on Reddit are saying. It seems like a bunch of people think maybe she entered some sort of fugue state. And interesting, like, how her husband had asked those doctors, like, what are the chances that she had amnesia or something? I honestly wouldn't be surprised if she maybe had Alzheimer's or dementia. And because she was on the younger end for having that.

[B]

And a lot of times could be early onset.

[C]

When it's early onset, family members don't recognize it because you're not thinking about it. Being that you're like, oh, my mom is just so scatterbrained now. And then all of a sudden she's trying to, like, walk to Tennessee or just, like, make one of those, like, really illogical decisions that people with Alzheimer's make. And a lot of times they wander.

[B]

Yeah, loping is a common symptom.

[C]

You become so impulsive. I mean, I was just, like, watching it with my own grandma now. But, like, yeah, you just make really strange decisions. And for her to be like, oh, my husband's at a conference, so I'm going to go to Asheville. It was nine hours away.

[B]

It's super odd. I find it really difficult to just kind of understand, like, how they weren't able to find this car.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, wouldn't the car be in a parking lot?

[C]

The sedan. Yeah, yeah, Right, right.

[B]

The rental records. So then I'm like, was it someone else's car? Did the potential affair partner pick her up and drive her out there? But why was she never spotted with anyone in Asheville then? I know, but who was the little truck for?

[C]

Yeah, I know.

[B]

Who were these clothes, the glasses? And I love to shop. Maybe she went shopping. That's easily explainable.

[C]

Yeah. That she bought a bunch of new stuff and she. She was, like, thinking that these women were her daughter and was trying to leave with them. That's the thing that makes me think it was some sort of cognitive, like, dementia thing rather than, oh, she bought this truck, because maybe she has an affair partner out there, that maybe she

[B]

thought it was for her young son, Craig. Yeah. We don't know where she was at if she's having dementia. I also am very curious about emails. Like, if there was an affair, you think they would have released something that they wrote about? We found emails, we found phone records. But, yeah, nothing that our research shows that that's ever been shared.

[C]

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I see also people saying, like, the big chunks of missing time, like, when she went back home. That's kind of weird. When she, like, was in Asheville. It's like these big chunks of missing time might tie everything together, but because it's been so much time, it's never going to be cleared. I know, but then this is what someone says. I think you have to go with the simplest concept here. She met someone online. 97, maybe decided this trip was a good a time as any to start a new life and had planned it out from the start. She gets on a bus to North Carolina, which we know she didn't buy a bus ticket, meets up with her new boyfriend, and everything falls apart from there. But so much of this theory and every other involves inventing motives for complete strangers, so none of it feels satisfactory.

[B]

I know. It also doesn't seem like if I'm gonna take a trip to Philadelphia with my husband. I just flew there. We have plans to meet later. Why would I then sprint off to meet an affair partner?

[C]

Yeah, right. Right. Like, why come back and get on the plane at all?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

If you were gonna try to, like, run away.

[E]

Hey, babe.

[B]

Couldn't make it. Enjoy your work conference.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And then see you in a couple days.

[C]

Go down to Asheville.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So that's why I'm, like, confused.

[B]

It doesn't add up.

[C]

That doesn't add up. No, it feels like it's something cognitive that's going on and that maybe she was, like, out hiking and someone just took advantage of her and killed her. But it's still a murder at the end of the day, even if it was, like, a cognitive thing. So we still have to, like, look into it that.

[B]

And so hopefully the evidence can lead us somewhere.

[C]

They need to get that VBAC machine, the DNA VBAC machine that they're using on anything.

[B]

The little.

[C]

It's like a vacuum that suctions off more DNA than they've ever been able to get before. So even if there's, like, really, really small trace DNA, they can still get it and build a profile off that.

[B]

So I've been asking on two outtakes if I can come shadow people on the job, and I had someone reach out to me that they're doing genetic processing in a lab.

[C]

Oh, my gosh.

[B]

Do you wanna come on a field trip with me?

[E]

Yes.

[C]

Oh, my God. Can we do a field trip? My cousin, who's a cop, too, said that we should take a.

[B]

Can we do a ride along?

[C]

Yeah, like, a ride along. And we can go into, like, the. We can just see how evidence is processed and stored. He was like, I think that would help you kind of visualize stuff if you could see how.

[B]

Sign me up. If any of you have jobs related to, I don't know, investigative techniques, the dog training. I do want to come shadow our dog trainers and, like, see how the dogs operate and learn about the dogs.

[C]

That would be amazing.

[B]

Any of you out there have a job that you would be open to us coming and shadowing you? Please drop it in the comments. We'd love to start compiling a list when we have time to, like, oh, my God, come visit and, like, put this together, but I want to take field trips. I need a field trip, you guys. I need a field trip. So please drop that in the comments and any theories you have. I mean, we're sitting here, we're kind of spinning our wheels, and we're like, like, what could have possibly happened to Judy? So let us know your theories in the comments because we're a little confused.

[C]

Gonna be just, like, spinning it.

[B]

Will. This one will sit with me? Yeah, this one will sit with me.

[C]

It's just there's so many things that don't make any sense.

[B]

It's very illogical. And again, who killed her?

[C]

Right?

[B]

Who killed her? I did see a lot of, like, threads on Reddit where people are like, she went hiking. She had arthritis. Maybe she just, like. Like, you know, slipped and the animals got her. And I'm like, but she was stabbed. Stabbed. And in a shallow grave. Yeah, someone partially in a shallow grave

[C]

tried to bury her.

[B]

I know people were like, on Reddit, they were like, she had arthritis. She wouldn't be hiking. You can still hike with arthritis.

[C]

Well, and also, too, if you, like, if it is something cognitive, maybe you're not aware of your limitations anymore. You're just not thinking about that. And so you're still just like, I,

[B]

you know, you never know.

[C]

Never know.

[B]

Let us know what you guys think.

[C]

Yeah, bears don't dig shallow graves. There was like, you know, they don't. And because we like to include a little bit of activism in every episode. If you want to help cases like Judy's, the National center for Missing and exploited adults, the DOE Network, and NamUs are all organizations doing vital work to connect unidentified victims to their families and get cold cases the attention that they deserve. And if anyone has any information about Judy Smith's case, please contact the Philadelphia Police Department at 215-580-8111 or Buncombe County Sheriff's Office in Asheville, North Carolina at 828-250-4503. And with that, we are going to highlight a missing person this week. This week we're going to highlight the case of Devin Sequoia Cooper. Devin is described as having black hair, brown eyes, being 5 foot 5 and 145 pounds. Devin is also described as being a black female. And the FBI is offering a reward of up to $10,000 for information leading to the location of Devin Sequoia Cooper. Devin was last seen leaving her residence on the north side of Columbus, Ohio at approximately 11:30pm on August 31, 2021 to go to a corner store. She never returned home at the time. She was driving her black 2009 Ford Fusion, which was later recovered in the west side of Columbus. Cooper was reported missing on to the Columbus Division of police on September 1, 2021. She appears to be the victim of foul play. She was last seen wearing black lemonade braids, a black and white summer dress, and black and white baby fat sandals. Anyone with information related to the disappearance of Devin Sequoia Cooper is asked to call the Central Ohio Crime Stoppers tip line at 614-461-8477. You may also contact your local FBI office, the nearest American embassy or consulate, or you can submit a tip online to tips.FBI.gov and that is all we have for this episode. Now we really turn it over to you guys. I'm so curious to hear your thoughts on this one and your theories and just, I don't know, try to put this one together because I still can't really make heads or tails of it.

[B]

I can't either. At Crime House, we really value you, your support. So again, share all your thoughts on socials, let us know what jobs you have related to the crime field and remember to rate, review, follow and subscribe to clues to help others discover our show. Thanks, guys. Thanks.

[A]

Bye.