MISSING: Asha Degree

Summary

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Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore

Episode: MISSING: Asha Degree
Date: September 10, 2025
Host: Crime House / Clues (PAVE Studios)

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Episode Overview

In this gripping episode, Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore dive into the baffling case of Asha Degree, a 9-year-old girl from Shelby, North Carolina, who vanished on Valentine's Day 2000. The hosts dissect the timeline, scrutinize overlooked clues, discuss forensic breakthroughs, and spotlight recently uncovered evidence—including explosive new DNA links and prime suspects. As the case teeters on the edge of a potential breakthrough after 25 years, Morgan and Kaelyn unpack each detail, theory, and twist, maintaining an empathetic and urgent tone throughout.

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Key Discussion Points & Segment Timestamps

1. Introduction & Case Background (03:10–13:00)

• Setting the Scene: Shelby, NC—a tight-knit, low-income community with a close, supportive Degree family.
• Timeline Pre-Disappearance:
  • Asha attends church and spends time with family; upset after her basketball team loses (11:00).
  • Power outage due to a car crash; Asha and her brother O’Bryant go to bed early.
• Critical Night:
  • Last confirmed sighting: Harold Degree checks on Asha at 2:30am (12:00).
  • O’Bryant hears Asha’s bed creak—potential time of her departure.

Quote:

“This case really feels like the reason why we talk about cases on podcasts...even after 25 years, witnesses can come forward, technology improves, and you really just need more people learning about the cases...” — Kaelyn (03:26)

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2. Initial Search & Witness Accounts (13:01–22:31)

• Missing Person Report: Iquilla Degree discovers Asha missing around 6:30am; police notified by 6:39am.
• Immediate Investigation:
  • No evidence of forced entry, struggle, or blood—indicating Asha left voluntarily, yet makes little sense (13:50).
  • Key items missing: backpack, Tweety Bird purse, some clothes, and house keys.
• Eyewitness Sightings:
  • Two truck drivers spot a young girl, presumed to be Asha, walking alone with a book bag at 3:30–4:15am on Highway 18—a mile from home, in a storm (15:57-21:11).
  • The girl flees into the woods when approached.

Quote:

“I seen a little girl walking down the road with her book bag. She had on a little dress and white tennis shoes and her hair was in pigtails. I went back but she never did look up at me…” — Jeff Roope to Charlotte Observer (18:33)

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3. Early Clues: The Storage Shed & Mysterious Items (22:31–25:50)

• Finds in Local Shed (Charles & Raleigh Turner’s Property):
  • A Mickey Mouse hair bow, green marker, Olympic pencil, candy wrappers, and, most curiously, a photo of an unfamiliar young black girl.
  • None led directly to Asha, but the items raised questions about their origin and Asha’s last steps.

Discussion: Doubts about the efficacy of the search dogs due to weather and confusion over potential scent contamination (25:50).

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4. The Search Grows Cold (26:47–30:28)

• Searches wind down after a week—over 9,000 manhours, no solid leads.
• Family Rallies Awareness: Publicizes Asha’s case via flyers, TV, and America’s Most Wanted.
• Billboard erected on Highway 18; ongoing frustration from law enforcement.

Quote:

“We have no productive sightings since that Monday...The child Asha Degree has basically disappeared.” — Sheriff Dan Crawford (29:01)

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5. The Backpack Discovery: A Major Turning Point (30:28–36:57)

• Backpack Found: August 2, 2001—Construction worker uncovers Asha’s backpack, carefully wrapped in two trash bags, buried 26 miles north of where she was last seen—opposite her last direction.
• Implications:
  • Discovery strongly suggests foul play and a kidnapping scenario.
  • Local law enforcement: “Finding the backpack this far away confirms...this is a kidnapping.” (38:00)

Memorable Moment:

“It almost feels like divine intervention...the fact that it was even found at all, buried in the ground 26 miles away…” — Kaelyn (32:34)

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6. New Leads: Forensic Breakthroughs & Suspicious Vehicles (2016–2024) (38:40–47:00)

• 2016: FBI announces a witness saw Asha being pulled into or getting into a dark green, vintage 70s car (Lincoln Continental/Ford Thunderbird)—distinctive, with rust around the wheel wells (40:02).
• 2018: Police reveal mysterious items from Asha’s backpack:
  • Dr. Seuss’s McElligot’s Pool (checked out from her school library, but unclear by whom).
  • New Kids on the Block T-shirt—does not belong to Asha or her family.
• 2017 Onward: FBI’s Child Abduction Rapid Deployment (CARD) Team deploys new DNA and forensic genealogy techniques.

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7. The 2024 Break: DNA Link to Local Family (47:00–55:28)

• September 2024:
  • Massive law enforcement activity at homes owned by Roy and Connie Dedman.
  • Dark green AMC Rambler matching the suspicious vehicle description is found.
  • Warrants reveal police now believe Asha was killed, with Dedman family members implicated.
  • DNA from Asha’s backpack: Matched to Annalee Dedman Ramirez (13 at time of disappearance), Roy Dedman’s youngest daughter, and to Russell Underhill, a resident in the Dedmans’ rest home.
  • No known personal connection between Asha and the Dedmans; investigation ongoing into family and associated parties.

Quote:

“During the initial rounds of forensic testing, investigators had isolated genetic material from those items, and they belonged to two different people. But...the tech was so limited...In 2023, they tried...forensic genealogy.” — Morgan (47:56)

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8. Theories, Witness Testimony & Damning Texts (55:28–61:03)

• Party Confession: Witness Thaddeus Melentine claims Lizzie Dedman drunkenly confessed: “I killed Asha Degree,” and Sarah quickly tried to silence her (52:26–54:23).
  • Thaddeus passes a polygraph, though his timing after reward money increase raises eyebrows.
• Dedman Sisters’ Texts:
  • On learning about renewed police focus, text exchanges reveal panic and knowledge, indirect admissions of guilt, and legal strategy, not confusion or denial about involvement (57:18).
  • Lizzie, after hearing the police theory, texts: “I caused this. Which I don’t know what I caused.” (58:21)
  • Lizzie admits, “If my dad did it, he did it, but I had nothing to do with it.” (61:38)

Memorable Exchange:

Sarah: “This is all caps. Not your fault.”
Morgan: “My first question is, whose fault is it?” (58:25–58:58)

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9. Current Status and Speculation (61:03–73:53)

• Polygraph Tests & Obstruction: Lizzie fails polygraph; police treat Dedman family as obstructing justice (61:13–61:54).
• Potential Theories:
  • Abduction from home seems unlikely due to no forced entry; running away also doesn’t fit her personality.
  • Strong theory: The Dedman sisters, perhaps while driving, accidentally hit Asha and orchestrated a cover-up, supported by vehicle evidence and text panic (66:49–69:50).
  • Possibility Russell Underhill, an unrelated party living at their property, could have been involved (69:06).
• Family, Socioeconomics, and Systemic Issues: Host anger at the apparent power divide and continued absence of resolution (70:58).

Notable Quote:

“It’s just horrible to think that they took her body from the scene and maybe their father helped them dispose of it somewhere.” — Kaelyn (70:01)

• Reward Raised to $100,000 in hopes that key individuals (such as Lizzie’s ex-husband, Kelly Foster) may be swayed to reveal information (63:49–64:00).
• Investigation ongoing; hope remains high for resolution in 2025.

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10. Theories, Unanswered Questions & Community Call (73:47–end)

• Unanswered Details: Motivation for Asha leaving, exact sequence of her disappearance, full inventory of backpack contents, the significance of the unknown girl’s photo, and the specifics of the DNA location (various locations).
• Crowdsourcing, Social Awareness:
  • Pleas for tips from the public.
  • Direct appeals for information and sharing on social media.
• Missing Person of the Week: Ruthie Smith—Profile and call for help on another missing young woman from Los Angeles (74:00–77:25).

Quote:

“Only 1% of these victims come back alive. My daughter deserves to be that 1%. So, I beg the public, you see something, say something.” — Ruthie Smith’s mother Catherine Rhonesto (75:59)

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• “This case really feels like the reason why we talk about cases on podcasts...even after 25 years, witnesses can come forward, technology improves...” — Kaelyn (03:26)
• “I just keep getting the chills every time I think about it...I'm mind blown by the new evidence that feels like it is just on the tip of coming out.” — Morgan (03:14)
• “I seen a little girl walking down the road with her book bag...I went back but she never did look up at me. She looked like she knew where she was going.” — Truck driver Jeff Roope (18:33)
• “During the initial rounds of forensic testing, investigators had isolated genetic material from those items, and they belonged to two different people...” — Morgan (47:56)
• “I killed Asha degree.” (alleged overheard confession, Lizzie Dedman; retold by Thaddeus Melentine, 52:26)
• “I caused this. Which I don’t know what I caused.” — Lizzie Dedman (58:21)
• “If my dad did it, he did it, but I had nothing to do with it.” — Lizzie Dedman (61:38)
• “Only 1% of [human trafficking] victims come back alive. My daughter deserves to be that 1%...you see something, say something.” — Catherine Rhonesto (75:59)

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Summary Takeaways

• Persistence Pays: The case is an example of how persistence, awareness, and advancements in forensic science can revive even the coldest cases.
• Complex Web: The Dedman family, especially through forensic genealogy, has emerged as key suspects; their possible connections ranging from accidental homicide to active cover-up.
• Community Role: Local and national response—billboards, national media, and ongoing reward funds—have been vital in keeping Asha’s case alive.
• Raw Emotion: The episode captures frustration with systemic failures and empathy for the Degree family, ending on a cautiously hopeful note.

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Listener Action & Resources

• If you have information on Asha Degree:
  • Contact Charlotte FBI: 704-672-6100
  • National Center for Missing & Exploited Children: 1-800-THE-LOST (1-800-843-5678)
• Share the episode, social posts and missing person info to help keep both Asha and Ruthie Smith’s cases visible.

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Stay engaged for developing updates in the case—the hosts believe an answer could be imminent, and as Kaelyn says, sometimes “the smallest clues and witness statements” crack the biggest cases.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign.

[B]

This is Crime House.

[A]

But then seemingly out of the blue, there is a huge discovery.

[B]

26 miles inside of two garbage bags buried.

[A]

It almost feels like divine intervention in a way.

[B]

Foreign welcome back to Clues, where we sneak past the crime scene tape to explore the key evidence behind some of the most gripping true crime cases.

[A]

I'm Kayla Moore and I'll be the one digging into the timelines, the backstories, and the court files related to these cases.

[B]

And I'm Morgan Abshur, your Internet sleuth. I'm going through everything I can find online about these cases, from Reddit forums to news articles and really pulling at all the strings that add up or.

[A]

Don'T at Crime House. We value your support. So please share your thoughts on social media and remember to rate, review and follow clues to help others discover the show. And for bonus episodes, early access and ad free listening, join our Crime House plus community on Apple Podcasts. Today we are talking about Asha Degree, a shy 9 year old girl from North Carolina who went missing on Valentine's Day in 2000 and 20. How it happened is very mysterious, but the why it happened is even more so.

[B]

For more than two decades, police have hunted for clues, unable to identify a single suspect until fresh eyes and new technology led to a startling discovery in 2024 that just might solve this cold case for good and finally bring Asha home to her family. More on the case and the clues that defined it right after this quick break. One of this week's partners is Jenny Bird.

[A]

You know when you put something on and it starts to become part of your permanent rotation of jewelry? That's how I've been feeling about some of the pieces that I've gotten from Jenny Bird recently. I don't know if you can see Morgan. I'm wearing one of my anklets.

[B]

The pearls on that are beautiful.

[A]

Lucille anklet, but it's got shells and it's got pearls and it's just so summery and dainty. I've been wearing it literally every day.

[B]

It's beautiful. The monogram necklace I got has been my daily wear. I love how water resistant it is because I'm lazy and I don't like taking off jewelry when I shower. So it's perfect. It doesn't tarnish. It looks really cute. I got a cute little J to represent Justin.

[A]

Aw, that's sweet.

[B]

I'm obsessed. I also got my friend Alejandra the Gemini necklace for her birthday. Jenny Bird is just such a thoughtful gift for someone and it's these pieces that people are going to actually love because they're trendy and they're going to have for years to come.

[A]

And they're timeless, too. Like right now I'm also wearing this pearl bracelet that I got and I feel like pearls never go out of style. So I'll have it forever.

[B]

No, they'll never go to style. So if you're ready to try it for yourself, you can get 20% off your first order with Jenny Bird by visiting jenny-bird.com and using code clues at checkout. I am very perplexed by this case.

[A]

I feel haunted by it. After doing all this research, I literally.

[B]

I just keep getting the chills every time I think about it. I'm just, I'm very perplexed. I, I'm mind blown by the new evidence that feels like it is just on the tip of coming out.

[A]

Well, this case really feels like the reason why we talk about cases on podcasts.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

Because it just proves that even after 25 years, witnesses can come forward, new information can be revealed, technology improves, you can keep testing and you really just need more and more people learning about the cases so that it jogs their memories and they might come forward. And yeah, this case just really has all of that.

[B]

It really does. There's, there's a lot of cases that don't get anything accomplished until there's outside pressure putting, you know, the lens back on it, the, the eyes back on it. So that's why we're here. We are really trying to highlight these cases and bring awareness. And if there's any you want us to cover coming up, please put them in the comments. But without further ado, let's get into today's case.

[A]

Yeah, let's.

[B]

This is going to be a wild one.

[A]

Dive right into it. So today's story takes place in Shelby, North Carolina. It's this quaint little town. It's about an hour west of Charlotte. It's surrounded by all of this farmland and woods, very quiet, not necessarily isolated though. It's this tight knit community where everyone really seems to know everyone. It's also described just from doing the research as being a pretty low income area. And one of the families that lives there is the degree family. On February 13, 2000, their day starts like any other Sunday. They go to church in the morning where a nine year old cousin of Asia Degree says that that day Asia seemed really happy. Asha even brings along this new Tweety Bird purse that she was obsessed with at the time. She got it from her classroom treasure chest just a few days before because she was behaving very well at school. And you know, that day she was maybe feeling a little bit down on herself too because the day before that, Asha's basketball team lost their championship game and Asia kind of felt responsible because she fouled out. Though her mom, Iquila degree feels like she has a way to lift her spirits that day. After church, she brings asia and her 10 year old brother O' Brien to another cousin's home where Asia's grandmother absolutely spoils them with Valentine's Day candy. Asha's father Harold takes off for work and he leaves the kids with their mother. Harold works a couple of jobs, but he mainly works as a dock loader for a company called PPG1 that makes paints and industrial coatings. And after a few hours with the family at the cousin's house, Iquilla brings the kids back to their home. Once they get settled in, Aisha, who is very exhausted from the weekend, goes to bed early. Sometime around 6:30pm and it's also around that time that the weather outside starts turning really nasty. There's a thunderstorm watch in the area and they're forecasting really heavy rain, strong winds. Two hours later, the weather is so bad it actually wakes Asia up and she comes and joins her family in the living room as they're all watching TV. It's specifically the NBA all star game. And then around 9pm There's a car crash near the house that happens and it knocks out power to the entire neighborhood. Normally Iquilla would give the kids a bath around that time, but since the power was out, she decided she's just gonna skip it for the evening. She'll give them baths in the morning before school and so she just tells them to both go to bed. Now, Asha and o' Brien share a bedroom. So Asia climbs into her bed. She's wearing a white nightgown. Her hair is still in pigtails from the day. Now the kids seem to be in pretty good spirits when they go to bed that night. The next day is Valentine's Day. It's also their parents 12 year wedding anniversary. Harold, the father, is a little bit more of a night owl in the family. He actually stays up pretty late that night. And when the power comes back on around 12:30 in the morning, he goes back to watching TV. Then at 2:30 in the morning, he's finally ready to call it a night. So he does one final check on the kids. He peeks into their bedroom and he sees that both Asha and o' Bryant are sleeping peacefully in their bed. But then sometime after 2:30 in the morning, something seems to happen. Asia's brother O' Brient feels like he hears Asha's bed creak kind of in the darkness. He assumes at the time that Asha's just getting up to go to the bathroom. So he really doesn't think much of it and he just goes straight back to bed. Then couple Hours later, at 5:45 in the morning, Iquilla's alarm goes off. She was planning to get the kids up pretty early because they still needed to take baths. So she goes into the bathroom, she starts running the water. Then she opens the kids bedroom door. Around 6.30am O' Brien is there. He's under his covers just like always. She calls his name, he jumps up. He's pretty ready for school. But Asia's bed, she notices, is empty. And Iquilla starts searching everywhere. Asia's not in o' Brien's bed, which is where she would sometimes sleep if she had a nightmare. She's not in the kitchen. Aquila goes around. She checks every room and closet in the house. Nothing. There's no sign of her. The doors to the outside are all locked too, which is interesting. But Asia's backpack and her tweety bird purse are missing. At this point, Iquila starts panicking a little bit. So she goes and she wakes up her husband Harold, and she tells him that she can't find Asia anywhere in the house. And he immediately leaps out of bed and he helps her look around. They check their cars. Maybe she snuck out and fell asleep in one of the cars somehow. They're just really trying to think of like any situation that could have happened anywhere. Ye they're running around their yard trying to see if she's anywhere in the yard, but there's nothing. Harold suggests at the time that maybe Asia went across the street because that's where his mother lives. So they call over there and Asha is not there. At 6:39am Harold calls 911 and says really what? No parent should ever have to say. But he says that I would like to report a child missing. Now let's backtrack for one second and just talk a little bit more about Asia and her family. So Asia Jacquillo, Degree was born on August 5, 1990 in Shelby, North Carolina and she lived there her entire life. She was described as being this shy, sweet nine year old. She was described as being average size for her age, about 4 foot 6 and 60 pounds. But that demeanor doesn't fool anyone because Asia was fiercely competitive, especially when it came to basketball. She was a star point guard on her youth team, and she took basketball very seriously. She hated losing. And when her team suffered their first defeat, the one that I was talking about, that happened on February 12th, so the Saturday before she went missing, she was pretty upset about it. She took it really hard. But no matter how upset she got at losing or how mad she was at herself, she knew that she could always count on her family for comfort and support. They always, always were there cheering her on, and she was always really surrounded by family. Her grandmother, Harold's mom, lived right across the street. Her cousins also lived nearby. And her parents did their best to provide a really lovely life for Asha and her brother, o'. Bryant. But it wasn't always easy for them to do so. Both Harold and Iquilla worked really long hours. Harold as a dock loader at PBG and Iquilla at the nearby Kauai piano manufacturing plant. Since they were always busy, they trusted their kids to be pretty independent. Some describe them as being kind of latchkey kids. A lot of the times they were trusted to be on their own after school while their parents were working. But regardless of how much they worked, Asia's parents always kept a really close eye on their kids. They were very fiercely protective of these children. For example, in the year 2000, home computers started becoming really, really common, but the degrees always chose to not have one. O' Bryant said it's because his parents were, quote, old school. And yes, they didn't really like the new technology, but they also didn't trust it around their children, especially Aquilla, because she had heard all of these horror stories about predators using the Internet to lure children. She was afraid of that. She definitely didn't want to take any chances. And apparently it seems like Asia took her parents concerns pretty seriously, too. She was described as being the kind of girl who was pretty hesitant of strangers. I read too, just in the research that she wouldn't even pet dogs that she didn't know. Like, that's how cautious she was as a child. And that's why her disappearance was so incredibly baffling to people.

[B]

Yeah, I saw in one source, too, that she was actually scared of the dark. So it was very mysterious that, you know, she wasn't there in the morning and seemingly, you know, vanished.

[A]

What could have happened?

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

So six minutes after Harold called 911 authorities arrived at the degree home. And one of the cops that arrived is actually chief deputy Derwin Briscoe. He's from the Cleveland county sheriff's office. And he was pretty shocked when he saw whose house it was that he was arriving to because he had gone to school with Asia's parents, and he had known that family for a very long time. And in a way, I think he felt even more inclined to get started on the investigation very quickly because I can't imagine reconnecting with an old schoolmate.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

For the first time in years because their child is missing. So he and his other officers start really trying to gather details around the house, like, what was Asia wearing? Where was she last seen? What might she have taken with her? Does iquilla have any recent photos that they can share? They also call for dogs. They call the K9 unit, hoping that maybe they can pick up Asha's scent wherever she went. But, I mean, think about it. It had been raining all night. That makes it really hard to track scent. The storm had washed away the entire trail that was outside the home. Anything she might have left behind. It was very hard for the dogs to, like, follow any sort of scent. So the officers have to kind of look inward and they just start looking at the house really, really thoroughly. And what they discover, and they make notes of this, is that there was no evidence of forced entry. None of the doors or windows showed any signs of being broken or tampered with. They also note that there's no sign of blood. There's no sign of a struggle. Nothing in the house looks like it's disturbed or out of place. And so all signs point to Asia leaving on her own. But that is so confusing for the family. Why would a nine year old girl leave on her own in the middle of the night during a horrible rainstorm? It's very confusing. And not only that kind of. What adds to the confusion of all this is she took some of her stuff with her. Like I mentioned before, her book bag is missing. Also her tweety bird purse that she was obsessed with is gone. And some of her clothes also on top of that, her house keys are gone. Now this, like I said, doesn't really make any sense to her parents. Not only did she leave on her own, but it kind of feels like she didn't just sleepwalk or have a nightmare and leave if she grabbed so much stuff. So, not really knowing what else to do, Harold starts going around the neighborhood and asking the neighbors, like, hey, this is what's going on. Have you seen anything? Was there anything you saw yesterday that was out of place? Did you see Asia? What's going on? And he actually finds a neighbor who says, I do think I saw her last night. Apparently this neighbor spotted Asia or they said someone with a similar build, basically like a child's build, walking down the road really early that morning. Unfortunately, the details about exactly when this happened or even who the neighbor was have never been made public by police. And apparently this neighbor says that they just really couldn't make any more details out of the situation because it was so dark, it was so rainy. But now that they know what happened, now that they know that Asia's missing, in their mind they're like, that could have been her. It was like this really small, dainty, frail person walking around in the rain at night. By mid morning, police kind of join Harold and they're going door to door canvassing the area, just trying to see if any other neighbors had spotted Asia, if anyone else had seen anything. They also start checking all the barns, all the sheds, every building in the area just to see if she might be in one of them. They also bring in these search and rescue teams. They do really do it all. They have helicopters, horses, lots of resources. Immediately start going into this investigation. And then as the day wears on, eventually this story hits the local news and people do start calling in with tips.

[B]

Yeah, the tips start rolling in and there are two pretty big ones right away, which is our first clue in this case. Tips from some truck drivers. Two separate truck drivers contacted police that afternoon claiming that they had seen Asha the night before. The first truck driver, Jeff Roope, told police that he saw a little girl walking along North Carolina Highway 18 which this is a predominantly country two lane road and it's about a mile from the degrees house. And Jeff said he saw this little girl between 3:30 and 4:00am which would have been about an hour after Harold checked in on the kids the last time that night at 2:30 and saw Asha in bed.

[A]

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[B]

Said he was driving south in the pouring rain when his headlights caught someone small walking on one side of the two lane highway. He said it was clearly a child. Here's the quote he actually gave the Charlotte observer quote I seen a little girl walking down the road with her book bag. She had on a little dress and white tennis shoes and her hair was in pigtails. I went back but she never did look up at me. She looked like she knew where she was going. She was walking at a pretty good pace. End quote When Jeff saw this little girl trudging alone in a downpour, he immediately did a U turn and went back and checked on her. But as soon as he rolled down his window to ask if she was okay, she actually ran off the road and disappeared into the woods. About 30 or 40 minutes later, someone else spotted her. Roy Blanton Senior, a retired sheriff's deputy turned truck driver, was driving with his son. Around 4:15am they spotted, quote, a short woman walking along the same stretch of Highway 18 just before the Highway 180 intersection. Roy didn't realize it was actually a child, though. Here's what he actually told the Charlotte Observer Quote it was a small figure wearing light colored clothing. I thought it was a woman. I couldn't tell it was a child. I thought that maybe it was a domestic violence thing where a woman left the house and was out walking, end quote.

[A]

I think probably in your mind, if you're driving around at 4:15 in the morning, you're not expecting to see a child and maybe your brain is trying to rationalize it in other ways. So, yeah, it kind of makes sense that he didn't recognize her as being a little kid. Yeah.

[B]

Especially in the storm, like just downpour, it's hard to see. But after this incident, Roy quickly got on his radio. He knew something was off with this and so he put out a call to other truckers in the area telling them to watch out for a short statured woman walking alone on the highway. When he heard about Asha's disappearance after returning to Shelby the following day, he immediately reached out to the police. Both drivers were certain about the timing and both sightings were on the same stretch of road heading the same direction, about a mile away from Asha's home.

[A]

A few things about that that I just thought of. So if it was only a mile away from Asia's home and it was 4:15 in the morning, I'm thinking maybe the time that O' Brien heard her leave was wrong. If it was 2:45 because that's like an hour and a half for her to get just a mile. Or the time he noticed her leave was right. And there's an hour and a half where she only made it a mile. And so she was maybe doing something else in that time as well.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which is like kind of confusing.

[B]

It is. How fast can a nine year old walk in the rain? It's. There's a lot of.

[A]

I mean, a mile. You can walk a mile in like 12 minutes if you're at like a decent pace. And it sounds like she was walking like at a pretty. Like she knew where she was going. Yeah. It also sounds like she ran off the road when someone tried to approach her and then came back to the road too. So. Which kind of like sticks with the theory that she knew where she was going.

[B]

Yeah. Seemingly on a mission and aware that like, I'm not going to talk to strangers by. And came back to walk easier.

[A]

I know where I need to go.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

So after Jeff gives this statement that really is the first time that law enforcement has lead on where to focus their search efforts and they start zeroing in on that stretch of Highway 18 where both of the truckers had spotted Asia, particularly that wooded area where she was seen running off the road. Search teams fanned out along the highway, they were joined by nearly a hundred volunteers from the community. Everyone turned out to find this little girl. They combed through the dense woods off the side of the road, and they knocked on doors in the area to again ask if anyone saw Asia during the rainstorm. And on February 15, which was the day after Asha disappeared, one of the search teams made their way onto a property owned by a middle aged couple named Charles and Raleigh Turner.

[B]

The Turner house sat kind of close to this country highway where Asha was last seen. And when searchers explained what they were doing, the Turners were happy to let them search their property. Seems like the whole community was really assisting in these efforts. And so the Turner's daughter Debbie went to go check the storage shed in their backyard. And that's where we find clue number two. Inside the shed, Debbie discovered several items that definitely didn't belong to their family. There was a Mickey Mouse hair bow, a green marker, and a pencil, reportedly from the 1996 Atlanta Olympics, although some sources say it just said Atlanta on it. But still, these items gave people who knew Asha a lot of hope. For starters, Asha wore hair bows like this all the time. Her basketball coach felt confident that this particular bow actually did belong to her. The pencil was also significant because the Degree family had traveled to Atlanta the year before for a family reunion. Searchers also found candy wrappers near the road. Asia's friends at school mentioned that candy like this was actually given out at a Valentine's Day party after that big basketball game. And her parents confirmed it matched the kind of candy she had at home before she disappeared. But maybe the most intriguing find was a small wallet sized photograph of a young black girl who looked to be around Asha's age. It wasn't Asha, though. It actually wasn't anyone in the Degree family or anyone that they could even recognize. And after the police did some digging, they also learned that whoever the little girl in this picture was also wasn't a student at Aisha's school. So no one's recognizing her. They don't know who she is or how Asia may be connected to her. So, like, how did she get this random photo of another little girl? And obviously, they can't ask any questions because Asha is still nowhere to be found. No sign of her in the shed, no idea what direction she could have gone in. And so they're really kind of grasping at straws, like, where did she go? How is it tied to this photograph? And where do we turn to next?

[A]

And, you know, really, unfortunately, at this point, there's no one, not the police, not the media, not even Asha's family has any answers to that question. And so investigators search the area for the next three days. But the canines couldn't really get a fix on Asha's scent, not even when they sniffed the shed and tried to search outwards, they couldn't find anything that really smelled like her, and so they couldn't say for sure which direction she went once she left. But the canines don't get any more scent hits on this area. They actually don't have any scent hits. There's no scent hit at the Turner shed, not around it. There's no direction that they're going into as, oh, Asha might have gone this way. So that could mean one of two things. It could mean either Asha was never there, and maybe this stuff is just random, and even though it looks like it's hers, it's actually not. Or what they said, too, is that it could have been that there were so many people walking around in the area that it was just really hard for the dogs to pick up specifically Asha's scent. Because we. We read that they. Dogs smell for skin cells. And so if you have all these people walking around, they're shedding all these skin cells.

[B]

We shed skin cells a lot, and these seemed like they weren't as acutely trained dogs. Like, I. I think we saw in one source that they weren't cadaver dogs or even, like, bloodhounds, which obviously have an even stronger sense of smell. They were just regular dogs. I'm not sure the difference. If anyone out there can tell me the levels of dogs used by a police force, I'd love to know. But we did see that as well. So maybe the dogs weren't the best methods at this point, or not the best. The most specific dogs. Maybe if they would have had the right dogs.

[A]

I know.

[B]

You just. You don't know.

[A]

Unfortunately, that is, like, a huge part of it.

[B]

And again, we had this big storm, so who knows if even with the right dogs.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I won't add a mark because it does feel like everyone's really coming out and looking.

[A]

We don't botch the dogs on this show. The dogs are always Sherlock, and they're always perfect.

[B]

Is that the standard you're setting?

[A]

That's my standard.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

The dogs cannot do a botched job.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

By February 20th, that's less than a week after Asha went missing. They end up scaling back the manhunt, and they end the official search, which we just did. The Story of Kyron Horman. And they don't end the official search for much longer than that. That really stuck out to me as like, this seems like a very short amount of time to end the search for a missing child, but it's really less than a week that this happens. I mean, she goes missing on February 14, so that's six days. At that point, the police had logged over 9,000 man hours and the search had exhaustively looked over a 2 to 3 mile radius around Asha's house where she was last seen. But there's really not any other further leads. And so going forward, they're just going to have to rely on tips that are called in by people, interviews that those who knew her and those who are close to the case give and media attention just to keep the investigation going. But for now, the trail leading to Asha Degree had gone completely cold. So even with the boots on the ground effort starting to slow, Asha's parents really refuse to abandon hope. I mean, they're smart people. They know that cases like Asha's really get swept under the rug. Asha is a little black girl from a low income neighborhood. They're going to make as much noise as humanly possible to make sure that her case does not get forgotten by the general public or law enforcement. So Iquila starts putting up flyers everywhere. They're on telephone poles in the area, they're in store windows, basically anywhere people will let her put these flyers. She's pasting them everywhere. They even go on the Montel Williams show and America's Most wanted to raise awareness and just plead for anyone with information to come forward. A little over a month after asia vanished, on March 22, 2000, local law enforcement put up a billboard along Highway 18 right near the spot where she was last seen. I have the billboard here if you want to look at it. Do you want to just read it out loud for people who aren't watching?

[B]

Big billboard, missing Asha degree and phone numbers to call. And it, it definitely gets your attention. And so this seems like a really good play on the investigation's part. Like right at the last place she was spotted. It's a big billboard.

[A]

They put it in everyone's face. They're like, if you have seen her now, you know that she's missing. It also directs people to call the Cleveland County Sheriff's office or the FBI. They're hoping that this will just jog someone's memory. Maybe there's someone else out there who saw Asia on the road that morning of February 14th. And just didn't even think about it. Didn't think it was weird. Maybe it'll provide a new lead. But there's one officer who's involved in this investigation, Sheriff Dan Crawford. He's continuing to get very frustrated with this entire investigation. He's a man who has handled child abduction cases in the past, and he said that he just never saw anything like this case before. He said in a press conference, quote, the child Asia degree has basically disappeared. We're having trouble building this case. We have no productive sightings since that Monday the 14th, the day that she disappeared. But still, as spring turns into summer, and then summer eventually fades into fall, there's no new developments. No one comes forward with a credible sighting. There's no evidence found along the highway, anything that points to Asha or where she went. And it just feels like the whole community starts losing hope in this investigation. But then, seemingly out of the blue, there is a huge discovery.

[B]

So by this point, it's August 2nd, 2001, almost a year and a half, 17 months actually has passed since Asha disappeared on that stormy night. And a construction worker named Terry Fleming is laying a driveway for a new home about 26 miles north of where Asha was last seen. Terry's operating a grater, which it's kind of this tractor looking thing with a big steel thing, and it, like, levels stuff as it drags. And as he's driving it, he hits this bump, but it doesn't really feel like it was a rock. So Terry gets out to investigate, and when he does, he sees this lump in the dirt, and it looks like it's a trash bag or something. He starts to uncover it fully, and when he does, he discovers that it's two trash bags, actually. And inside this trash bag is clue number three. Asha's backpack.

[A]

26 miles away from where she was last seen.

[B]

26 miles inside of two garbage bags buried.

[A]

Asha did not put that there.

[B]

No. He checks the tag inside and sees Asha's name written in childish letters. But Terry doesn't know who Asha is, and he doesn't have cell service out there, no one to call. But he writes down the name and then just leaves the bag at the site before heading home. The next morning, August 3rd, he tells his wife about this strange discovery he had. And his wife, luckily, has been watching the news. She knows exactly who Asha is. And so as soon as he finishes telling her the story, she tells Terry, call the police. And this is like the point where things could have gone so wrong, he just left it there. We could have had A huge mark here.

[A]

I mean, the fact that it was even found at all, buried in the ground 26 miles away, and then it was left there by this person like this. It almost feels like divine intervention in a way, that the fact that this.

[B]

Was recovered, like, what are the chances?

[A]

I know.

[B]

And so when law enforcement goes back to the scene, they do find Asha's backpack, and it's still kind of carefully wrapped in those two plastic trash bags. Now, it's kind of obvious to these investigators that this wasn't just carelessly dropped or disposed of. There's some intention behind wrapping this backpack within two plastic bags and burying it. And when looking at the location, the location's kind of standing out to these investigators as being significant, too, because it's actually in a completely different direction than where Asha was walking that night. Like, as we talked about, she was headed south on Highway 18. This backpack was found north again, 26 miles north.

[A]

She did not make it that far that night.

[B]

And it was hidden in these woods. I think it was, like, 50 yards off the highway. It's not close to the road. It's the opposite direction. Something is up.

[A]

Someone was hiding it.

[B]

So at this time, Cleveland county sheriff Dan Crawford stated that he believed it was thrown out of a moving car, Although there's one other source that says it looked like the bag had been deliberately buried.

[A]

I'm sorry, but you would have to be a professional football player to throw it 50 yards off the freeway from a moving car. Dan, I don't. I. Dan, I see you eyeing the botchboard.

[B]

Dan. I'm gonna give you a halfy here, Dan.

[A]

To me, it reads so clearly, like someone intentionally parked their car, walked off the highway to a part where they thought it would never be found, dug a hole, buried it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, in the. The bags. Yeah.

[B]

Even, I don't know, North Carolina, they get a little bit of snow. So even if it was on the side of the road, and then over the course of a winter season, the snow plow pushed it further. I don't think a snowplow is pushing anything 50 yards unless it's going, like.

[A]

A hundred miles an hour and just yeets it. 50 yards. Like, 50 yards is pretty far for it to just be casually tossed off.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, to my crime, sleuthy person head, it's giving deliberate. So officers do end up sending the backpack and all of its contents to the FBI lab at Quantico for analysis. They tell the press that the bag is definitely Asha's, as are most of its Contents most, but not all. But at the time, they don't reveal what exactly was inside of it. But the Charlotte observer reports that it contains some of her clothes and school supplies. What police do make clear though, is that finding the backpack this far away confirms what many suspected all along. This is no longer a missing persons case. This is a kidnapping.

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

So this discovery really reinvigorates the search for Asia and it sparks this other big massive search. And right away, teams comb through the dense woods around where the backpack was found because they're starting to think that Asha herself might be there, or at least her remains. But after days of searching, they don't find anything. Not a single clue. There's some animal bones that are there. I read that there was an old pair of men's khakis, but the police don't think that those are connected to her disappearance at all. So In October of 2001, two months after the first attempt to search, they try again. And this time they cover a six mile stretch down the of Highway 18. Again, kind of nothing comes out of this. That's worth Mentioning there were other searches that did occur after that, but they were all basically failed attempts. Then a year passed, then another and another. And as we've seen with these cases, like, before you know it, over a decade has gone by with no movement. In Asia's case, even though they found her backpack, there's no movement after that. The press has kind of moved on from this case. The community has started to as well. Aisha's family is still very much holding on to hope. The police actually do still have some hope left, and they continue to look into this case. It still remains active, and there's people from various agencies that continue to meet periodically about it. Like, they really don't want to let this one go. It's honestly kind of inspiring to see. And in 2015, the agencies that are involved decide that they need to bring a fresh approach to this case. So they redouble their efforts, and they bring a couple detectives out of retirement to help with this investigation.

[B]

It's giving a little bit of a Sherlock moment, maybe. I don't know. I agree. On May 25, 2016, the FBI makes a stunning announcement. They're exploring a new lead. And that is our clue number four, the green car. According to the FBI, they have a witness, one who honestly might have come forward years earlier and just didn't really get taken seriously.

[A]

Or I read that this tip actually did come in closer to the time of her disappearance.

[B]

Yeah, I'm just.

[A]

I know it's like bull Sherlock and botched.

[B]

I know at least they're giving it a chance now. But, hey, it's still got to go up there. But this witness said that they saw someone matching Asia's description get into a car on the morning she disappeared. And this was near where she was last seen on Highway 18 in Shelby. Now, this wasn't just any car. The witness says it was dark green and either a 1970s Lincoln Continental Mark 4 or an early 70s Ford Thunderbird. And if you're watching on YouTube, you will see the photos of these two cars side by side. Again, if you're not, go to our Socials Clues podcast on Instagram. But these are very distinct cars. They're very vintage looking, kind of retro, sharp body lines, which, for the 2000s, you would kind of take note of seeing this car.

[A]

Absolutely. Someone was trying to say, well, actually, we'll get into it. But there was a lawyer involved in this case who's trying to say that back in the day, there were a lot more green cars than there are today. Which is true. But still seeing an antique or, like, a vintage green car. It's a very, very specific car to see.

[B]

It is.

[A]

It's a great tip that comes in.

[B]

It is. And the FBI even say, this tip goes further. This car had rust around the wheel wells, which tells us that whoever owned it maybe wasn't taking the best care of it. But that's pretty much all we can get from this FBI press release about the vehicle, which then leaves people with even more questions than answers. They're like, okay, you're telling us about this car, but, like, what else? What else do you guys have? And they're also confused why, if someone saw Asia getting into this car back in 2000, why did the FBI wait until 2016 to announce it? But this clue is just kind of a taste of what's to come, because the police and the FBI have quite a few more surprises to share. In October 2018, the Cleveland County Sheriff's Office released a cryptic video asking the public's help with two very specific pieces of evidence. Both of them came from clue number five. Mysterious items found in Asha's backpack. And as I mentioned before, the sheriff's department doesn't reveal all of the contents of Asha's bag, but they do share a couple of things. The first being a copy of McEligot's Pool by Dr. Seuss. When officers look into this, they find it was checked out from Asha's school library, though they can't tell if she was the one who checked out the book or if someone else checked it out and gave it to her. The other more mysterious item is something they can't figure out the origin of. And it's a T shirt. But not just any T shirt. It's a New Kids on the Block T shirt, which is a very popular band at that time. But, like, not popular for someone maybe Asia's age.

[A]

Here's the thing, because we were around her age in 2000, I was a little bit younger than her. Like, Backstreet Boys and NSync. That's what it was everywhere. Yeah. New Kids on the Block, I remember at the time was like, something like older kids had grown up with. So to me, a 9 year old wouldn't necessarily have a new kid. Like, it's a little vintage for a nine year old to have New Kids on the Block. They were around in the 80s.

[B]

I'm gonna be honest, you guys. I just had to Google New Kids on the Block.

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[B]

I'm gonna be honest.

[A]

Step by step.

[B]

I had no idea who they Were this is, like, the first reference of New Kids on the Block.

[A]

Wow. Yes. But so, again, the point is that you didn't even know.

[B]

So why would Asia have this T shirt of New Kids on the Block in her bag? And it's even more confusing when Asia's parents are positive that it's not hers or anyone's in the family.

[A]

Yeah, there you go. Like, that's exactly what I was thinking.

[B]

But both items are important because it tells the police that someone else may have had access to this backpack. I mean, again, it was buried, so I think that's pretty clear. But it's. It's adding more intrigue, like, who do these items belong to then? And who put them in there? And so they want to figure that out. They're going off this hope that if they can figure out who put those items in her backpack and maybe they can find out more about the day she went missing. But at this point, like, this is all they really have. They're putting out this cryptic video to the public. They're begging for help, and they need a big break. In this case, a good tip, something. Because at this point, nothing's really happening. It's seemingly going cold yet again.

[A]

In 2017, the FBI sent experts from its famed Child Abduction Rapid Deployment, or card team, to pour over the existing evidence. Again, I think they're just hoping that someone can look at this with fresh eyes. CARD was formed in 2005, which was why they weren't involved originally in Asia's case. But now, with the CARD team leading the way, the FBI retests Asha's backpack and the trash bags that it was wrapped in for DNA. They're also looking for fingerprints and fibers using the latest technologies at their hq, which is in Quantico. They're using all of these tools that were much more sophisticated than the ones that they had available to them back in 2001. And in September of 2024, 24 and a half years later, after she disappeared, it seems like their efforts paid off big time. On Tuesday, September 10, a swarm of sheriff and FBI vehicles descend upon two counties in North Carolina. They targeted several houses and a nursing home, and they're all owned by a couple named Roy and Connie Dedman. Police started at one specific property of theirs. It's this home that's just outside of Shelby, which is where Asia was raised. The cops bring in search dogs, they bring in ground penetrating radar, and at one point prior, they even have a drone that's taking aerial footage overhead of just the entire scene. They Were looking for anything that might tie the Deadmans and their family to Asia's disappearance. And that includes things like computers, documents, clothing, DNA, vehicles, just anything that looked even remotely suspicious, suspicious or was useful for the case. Then they go next door where they really find a bombshell. And it's an old green car. Specifically, it's a dark green AMC Rambler, which we just looked at the car that was brought up on the FBI site. Let me show you what this one looked like.

[B]

Oh, my gosh. Yeah, it's. It.

[A]

It looks exactly like the other ones. To someone who's not a car person. I could see how they reported it as being those other two cars, but if you were to put all three of them together, I would just think they were all the same car.

[B]

They're all the same. They have very, very similar body types from the 1970s.

[A]

They're green. They're so specific. Now, for several days, while this is going on, while this raid is going on, no one really knew exactly what was happening at these properties.

[B]

Yeah. And how did they get there, why.

[A]

They were being raided or. Yeah, exactly what led the police there. But then on September 16, the authorities made their search warrants public, and they were absolutely explosive. There was a lot of information in those search warrants that proved police knew a lot more about this case than they were initially giving to the public. The warrants revealed that the investigators now believed Asia Degree was killed and that members of the Dedman family may have been involved. I read some of these warrants, and one thing that I noticed, too, was initially, the witness said that they saw Asha getting into the green car. In this warrant, they said that Asha was pulled into the green car, which is very different from getting in of your own accord. So now this is looking a lot scarier. And those two houses that I mentioned that they were looking at, they are less than four miles from Asia's last known location by Highway 18.

[B]

Obviously, this is a big Sherlock moment for investigators here, but again, like, how did police get here? How did they tie Asha's disappearance to the Dedman family in the first place? And it wasn't the car. That was actually an unexpected surprise. Like, they didn't go to the DMV like we've seen in other cases, and then find the green 70s car, though one had known about it for a few months after they did a preemptive flyover with a drone. They did see the car in the drone footage. But the real reason they were able to start looking into the Dedmon family was because of DNA evidence found in Asha's backpack. Remember how that card team came out and was reanalyzing the evidence? This was the break the FBI needed. During the initial rounds of forensic testing, investigators had isolated genetic material from those items, and they belonged to two different people. But because the tech was so limited at the time, they couldn't match that DNA to anyone specific in their databases. They only knew it came from two different people who definitely were not Asha. However, in 2023, they tried a new approach, Something we are becoming quite familiar with on this show, forensic genealogy. So the FBI compared these DNA samples from the backpack with existing databases like 23andMe to find any genetic relatives. Then they used this information to create a family tree. And there was some specific evidence that investigators had actually found and preserved. And one of them was a hair stem on Asha's undershirt, which was stuffed into her backpack. And using this new technology, they were able to confirm this hair belonged to a close relative of Roy Dudman. Roy has three daughters, so investigators sought out DNA samples from each one of them. They didn't specify how, but they matched the hair stem to Roy's youngest daughter, Annalee Dedman Ramirez, who I believe was.

[A]

13 at the time that Asha disappeared, which is important to know.

[B]

Yeah. As for the second DNA sample on Asha's backpack, they were able to trace it to a totally unrelated person named Russell Underhill. So when they start, like, really putting these pieces together, they learned that their suspects lived within a few miles of where Asha had disappeared. But who were they? Like, how would they be connected to Asha, this nine year old little girl who vanished in the middle of the night?

[A]

Let's talk a little bit about Roy Dedman to start.

[B]

Let's do it.

[A]

So in 2024, when police are searching his property, Roy was about 78 years old, and he owned multiple pieces of real estate around Cleveland county. Roy and his wife Connie also ran some businesses together, including a now closed private Christian school and also a senior care facility called Northbrook rest home. As Morgan said, Roy And Connie had three daughters together. There's Lizzie, who is 16 years old in February of 2000. Sarah, who was 15 at the time. And then their youngest, Annalee, whose hair was reportedly found on Asia's shirt, was just 13 when Asia went missing. And here's an interesting note about Roy. So Roy wasn't just a business owner and a property owner. He was also what some would describe as a car collector. According to the search warrants, there were 29 vehicles registered in Roy Dedman's name. And one of those vehicles was the dark green 1964AMC Rambler. And Roy's daughter Sarah, the middle daughter, who was 15 at the time, said that she would drive this rambler in 1999, which is a year before Asia disappeared. But also, the Deadmans weren't the sole focus of this investigation. There was also Russell Underhill, whose DNA was also found on Asia's backpack. And so a little bit about Russell. He was this Vietnam veteran who had struggled with depression, alcohol and substance abuse. And he's connected to the Deadmans because Russell was living in one of their assisted living facilities in 2000 when Asia disappeared. According to the search warrants, Russell lived at the Northbrook rest home between 2002 and 2004. But before that, he had lived in another facility that the Deadmans owned. In fact, he was described as having a close and personal relationship with the Deadman family. And supposedly their oldest daughter, Lizzie, would drive him to and from his hospital appointments. Not only that, but Roy Dedman was actually listed as Russell's emergency contact, not any of his family members. It was Roy. Russell did die in 2004 of undetermined causes, which means that he is not here as a witness. He can't tell investigators what he knows. He also can't defend himself against any accusations. But it raises a couple disturbing questions. Was Russell involved in Asha's disappearance? If one of the daughter's DNA was also found on her stuff, was one of the daughters involved in the disappearance? What could have possibly happened for these people's DNA to be in the book bag of a missing nine year old girl? Again, there's not really many answers to that, but there is someone else that comes forward just days after that first round of searches at the Dedman properties. And he kind of shares a few more clues that paint a very different picture of the deadmans.

[B]

On September 18, 2024, the Cleveland County Sheriff's Office interviewed a man in his 40s named Thaddeus Melentine. And he came forward with a shocking story that is going to give us our clue number seven. Thaddeus said he used to hang out with the three Deadman sisters a lot at bars and parties. And Sometime in the mid 2000s, a few years after Asia's disappearance, he was at a house party and he saw the eldest daughter Lizzie, who was probably about 20 or 21 at the time, bawling her eyes out. He also said she was really intoxicated, which might have made her more loose lipped. And Thaddeus alleges that he heard Lizzie say, quote, I killed Asha degree. But that's not even the biggest bombshell in this. As soon as those words come out of Lizzie's mouth, the middle sister, Sarah, who's 19 or 20 at this time, got super angry. According to Thaddeus, she grabbed Lizzie's head and told her to, quote, shut the up. Thaddeus told investigators that Sarah's reaction really caught him off guard because she was normally very calm and nice, but at that moment, she was very aggressive in trying to get Lizzie to stop talking. Thaddeus told investigators that he was 100% certain about what had happened. And this is something that's, like, really kind of crazy to me. They have Thaddeus take a polygraph to prove he heard what he heard or, like, seemingly right. He passes. So to investigators, this is looking very credible. And if he's right about what he remembered, it means Lizzie may still be feeling guilty about something that happened with Asia, and she could slip up again. This time, however, police are watching.

[A]

Now, I know that there are a couple issues that some people have with Thaddeus's witness statement that he comes forward with. For sure, he does pass the polygraph test. We have talked about it, though. Polygraphs aren't always accurate.

[B]

Press the button.

[A]

Just because we agree with the results doesn't mean that they're accurate. But one thing that people brought up is Thaddeus does come forward. Sure, it's a few days after the search, but it is one day after the reward money gets bumped up by quite a bit. So he was incentivized to come forward with a tip. The woman he was dating at the time of that confession would later become his wife, and now they are separated. So they interviewed his ex wife about this as well. So Thaddeus's ex wife said it was strange that he never came forward and told her that he had heard one of the deadman sisters say that at the party.

[B]

And that is super interesting.

[A]

There's other people at the party. No one else has come forward and said, yes, I was there, too, and I heard them say this, which, I mean, take it for what it's worth, but grain of salt wanted to share what some people.

[B]

Yeah, no issue with. It's okay. Great point to bring up. I think, you know, you hope people have these altruistic motives, but maybe that reward incentivized him to do something or make something up.

[A]

DNA doesn't lie. And the DNA is there, and the DNA is there.

[B]

So it is really interesting. I mean, a Lot of drinking, and maybe he was like, did I hear what I heard? But then now they're investigating them and searching their property. Like, I actually probably did hear what I heard. So you just.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Never know. In all of these cases, I always grapple with, like, what is the truth. But regardless, polygraph is passed. And so they start diving in to the Deadman's texts. On October 27, 2024, a search warrant gave the police full access to Lizzie's icloud account. And what they found in her text messages does not look very good. So let me walk you through what happened a little bit. Remember one of the mystery items found from Asha's backpack? That New Kids on the Block T shirt that didn't belong to her? Well, back on September 10, 2024, the very first day of the police searches, Sarah texted her older sister Lizzie, quote, they think it's our shirt. It's not her shirt. Her mom said it wasn't hers. Then Sarah adds, quote, I don't remember that shirt. I'm scared, though. Dad is probably going to be a huge suspect. The next day, September 11, their sister Annalee, the one whose DNA was allegedly found on Asia's clothing, jumps into damage control mode. Seemingly, she texted Lizzie, quote, lizzie, you don't need to be talking to anyone. I'm at the lawyer's office now. They advise we should all not talk to them without representation. So within 24 hours of the searches, the family has already lawyered up and is telling each other to stop talking to the police, which isn't bad from a legal perspective. If I was getting my property searched and getting questioned, I would ask for a lawyer immediately.

[A]

But they're all texting each other still, which they're not thinking that they could be subpoenaed and that their text could be looked at, but they're texting each other a lot of information.

[B]

So on September 12, Lizzie apparently speaks to the family attorney, David Teddy. And afterwards, Lizzie texts Sarah, quote, I just talked to David Teddy. The theory is, I did it. Accident covered it up. Here is where she seems to be giving Sarah the police's main theory about what happened to Asha. And it's not a theory the police have made public yet. So we're left to kind of fill in the blanks ourselves. But Sarah immediately responds, quote, no, why would it be you? And Lizzie said, quote, that's what he said. Later that day, Lizzie is texting her ex husband, a man named Kelly Foster, and she's clearly just falling apart. In these messages, she says, quote, I Feel so horrible. So, so horrible. I don't know what to do. I caused this. Which I don't know what I caused.

[A]

This means, but that is a huge thing to say. I caused this.

[B]

I caused this.

[A]

What could it possibly mean?

[B]

Kelly, her ex husband, tries to reassure her, quote, no, you didn't. But Lizzie, like, really isn't buying it. Then she asks Sarah, quote, hey, is everybody mad at me? And her sister Sarah tries to comfort her, quote, nobody is. Lizzie, this is all caps. Not your fault. And we can interpret this in a lot of ways. My first question is, whose fault is it?

[A]

Then why? If you had absolutely nothing to do with this, why would you be asking your family if people are mad at.

[B]

You and saying, I caused this? You feel so, so horrible.

[A]

I caused this. Yeah.

[B]

What? You caused what? Obviously, we're in context of Asia and your DNA is in a backpack that was buried. We're clearly in context of Asha and I caused this. It's not your fault.

[A]

It's also not her DNA that was found in the bag. Why is she asking everyone if they're mad at her?

[B]

Great question one. I think all of us out there would love to know at this point. And it's clear that she continues to spiral. There's an exchange from September 29, and she's essentially terrified about what's going to happen since she wouldn't talk to police when they first approached her. And then she says something seemingly very revealing. She says, quote, I mean, I want to do what dad says. Which tells us that, like, in the midst of all of this chaos, all of this stuff coming out, the DNA being found, Roy Dedman is running the show. Sarah responds by telling her to be compliant with police and mentions that their dad suggested they could, quote, go get a polygraph with the honest people. And, you know, you could speculate, okay, maybe they're not involved. Then if they're getting pushed to go get a polygraph. But what's really standing out is that they seem to have this underlying assumption they do know what happened, something has been covered up, and the DNA doesn't lie. And they're not really questioning the DNA. They're not asking why their family was singled out or what evidence could prove their innocence. They're just like, it's seemingly damage control. Tight lips, like, nothing's getting out of this. Yeah.

[A]

They're just trying to figure out how to navigate the situation. They're not like, what? How could this possibly have happened? Blah, blah, blah. It's more like, okay, how do we navigate this? And get our lawyers and not talk to anyone.

[B]

Yeah. It doesn't seem like a family that's being plagued by, like, false accusations. It's giving cover up. At least that's what people are gleaming from all of this.

[A]

On February 10th of this year, 2025, Lizzie agrees to take a polygraph test that's administered by the sheriff's department. And when the interviewer asks if she was concealing any information about Asia's case, her answer is flagged as deceptive. She also told the interviewer, quote, if my dad did it, he did it, but I had nothing to do with it.

[B]

Oh, quite a quote to say to the detectives. Wow.

[A]

Also, yeah, interesting.

[B]

If my dad did it, he did it, but I had nothing to do with it. But why is everyone mad at you? Then how is it your fault?

[A]

I know.

[B]

Why do you feel so.

[A]

So she's like, really trying to remove guilt from herself. Three days later, on February 13th. February 13th, mind you, was the night leading into Asia's disappearance. 25 years prior, police executed another round of search warrants. By this time, they weren't just looking for physical evidence. These new warrants were specifically for obstruction of justice, meaning investigators now believed that members of the Dedman family have been actively interfering with the investigation into Asia's disappearance. They based this on the text messages that we were just talking about, as well as the fact that Lizzie failed her polygraph. The warrants specifically target Lizzie, Sarah and Roy. Interesting, because that's not whose DNA was found. No, it was the youngest ones. And they don't target her. Police go ahead and they seize their cell phones. They're looking for more evidence of coordination and maybe some cover up attempts. And law enforcement officially states in these warrants that they believed Asia Degree was a victim of homicide and that her body was concealed somewhere. So in April of this year, 2025, multiple agencies, including the FBI, searched a Lincol property that contains several buildings that was along Highway 274 in the area. I don't believe anything has been said about if they found anything during that search. However, we know that in May of this year, the reward money was increased to $75,000. And recently, I believe it was June 25, the reward money for any information leading to anything that, like helps find Asia was raised to $100,000. And there's a couple of theories as to why the reward money was raised twice in the last two months. A lot of people are speculating that there is maybe a specific person that law enforcement is targeting to come forward with Information. Maybe they know something about their financial situation and they know that a hundred thousand dollars might coax them out to.

[B]

Say something so crazy.

[A]

And a lot of people believe that that is Kelly Foster, Lizzie's ex husband.

[B]

He knows something because otherwise he wouldn't have have comforted her in those messages. It's not your fault.

[A]

They think that he might know something and they can coax him out with this money. That's allegedly what people are saying is the reason why they raised that money so much.

[B]

Wow. Absolutely crazy. I mean, I don't know if it's just me or if you guys out there listening feel like we are just on the edge of solving this and finding the answers.

[A]

My theory is maybe that they found something at the property. It's taking a while to test and get results back. And so they're maybe trying to coax someone to come forward with information. But I, I just really hope that we can solve this this year.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, after 25 years, this case is finally seemingly gonna come to a close. And like, God, knock on wood. Don't jinx it, Morgan. Like we're right there. And I mean, clearly you have people in this family spiraling. Someone knows something, one of them's gonna crack.

[A]

But we talked a lot about who might be involved, what people saw happening that night. Do you wanna talk a little bit about like, like what the theories are as to what happened?

[B]

I mean there's so many. Like a lot of people speculate she was taken out of the home, but again, there was no forced entry and all the doors were locked. But they say, you know, she did take her keys. Maybe she locked the door with the person or the person got the key and then locked the door. You know, maybe there was a window open that they forgot about and then that person shut it. Like there's a lot of people speculating that, that she was taken from the home. And I think a lot of people go down that route because they find it very hard to believe that a nine year old who was scared of the dark would just leave her home in the middle of the night. And you know, a lot of people say like a 9 year old's not going to leave home over a basketball game, loss or, you know, anything like that. So they're confused why she would seemingly walk out of her house.

[A]

She didn't have a history of sleepwalking. I know that of it said she had nightmares, but there wasn't any. She didn't have a history of like getting up and going across the street. To her grandma's in the middle of the night. Like, people don't really think that's what happened.

[B]

No, a lot of people pointed to her parents initially. Yeah, a lot of people. And we haven't really talked about it a lot in this case, but her parents were thoroughly investigated. You know, when this case first started developing, a lot of people know the statistics. They look close to home first before they spread out the search. And so they were like, we're gonna search your cars. Harold immediately handed over the keys. The engines were cold, so they were really looked at. You know, everything checked out with her family. Another theory is that, you know, maybe someone living in the neighborhood had been following her. There was a sex offender that actually lived nearby in the neighborhood. Their house was torn apart and searched.

[A]

I guess I'm asking theories about the Deadmans because, like, stuff that I had read is maybe one of them was out driving. Like this would have had to be like 5 in the morning. Yeah, it was raining, it was dark. She was on the side of the road. Maybe one of these girls was driving the car and hit her accidentally. Because I know when they found the car on the Deadman property, there was damage to the driver's side, front of the vehicle. And if Asia's being seen being pulled into the vehicle, maybe she was hit and they took her body with them.

[B]

Yeah, a lot of people think this was a hit and run kind of COVID up situation. And especially given the text messages, they're unclear if the little 13 year old was maybe lap driving or, you know, things like that. There's so many different scenarios. But yeah, why was someone from that family driving that early or that late for them, given, you know, maybe they didn't go to bed or maybe they woke up that early. But a lot of people assume that Aisha was hit and then they pulled her in.

[A]

I was listening to an interview that Skip Foster just did. I don't think there's any relation to Kelly Foster, but Skip Foster is the spokesperson for the Dedman family. He was just on the prosecutors kind of giving an interview as to why. There's absolutely no reason his clients were involved. And his big thing is. So one of the girls came forward and said that she was driving the car as early as 1999, a whole year before Asia disappeared.

[B]

Yeah, it was like given to her as a gift or something.

[A]

Given as a gift? Well, when you look at DMV records, the car title wasn't transferred until March of 2000. So his argument is that they couldn't have Been driving that car because they didn't have the title to it. Now there's a million other reasons that they would have been driving that car. Like, he mentioned that the car wasn't sold to them from a dealership. It was like, just a person that sold the car. So they could have been driving it for a while before they transferred the title and actually made a payment on it. A whole bunch of reasons.

[B]

Yeah, it sounds a little bogus. Y. I mean, I was driving my mom's minivan around in high school, but title didn't get put in my name.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's just. It's convenient.

[A]

That seems to be really, like the only argument that the family has as to why they couldn't have been involved is because it couldn't have been their car. They kind of ignore the fact that the DNA lines up. Maybe they.

[B]

So confusing for me.

[A]

There's a chance that it was just the other guy, Russell, that did something bad one night in the car, and none of the family's involved. But because he drove in that car so much, he had one of the girls hairs on him.

[B]

But also he was getting driven to his doctor's appointments, and he would not.

[A]

Just have a random New Kids on the block T shirt with him. Those girls were 15, 16, and 13. They were the exact age of girls that would have a New Kids on the Block T shirt. I mean, we have listeners. I can confirm or deny that, but.

[B]

I didn't even know who they were. I'm so sorry if we have any.

[A]

Super fans and they're asking each other. Like one of them said in the text, I don't remember that shirt. They're. They're trying to rack their brains about it, which is interesting too, which it's.

[B]

Like you could have easily said, I don't even know who new kids on the block are. I would never have that shirt.

[A]

Right.

[B]

There's a million ways you can respond in these situations, but the way they're responding to me and investigators clearly is off. Something's up.

[A]

It's just horrible to think that they took her body from the scene and maybe their father helped them dispose of it somewhere.

[B]

It's because you just. You don't know. You know, there's. There's so many stories out there where, I mean, you have a family member who was hit by a car.

[A]

Yeah, definitely. I mean, this one really gets to me if it was a hit and run case. Cause I was just. We were talking about it earlier, but I have a cousin that was hit by a drunk driver, this like 26 year old girl whose dad was a judge and she hit him, his head went through the windshield. She fully left him for dead. And then she came back with her dad to clean up the crime scene. And my cousin wasn't there. But I in my heart think they were coming back to move the body, but instead they just kind of cleaned up the glass. And I think they like scrubbed some of the blood off of the pavement. She never got in trouble for it. I hope she's watching this cause I know exactly who she is and I hope she like lives with that every day. But it's insane.

[B]

It's insane.

[A]

It's the same thing with this situation where like the Dedmans were this white well off family that owned multiple businesses, had all these properties and all these nice cars and they hit a poor little black girl and moved her body. Allegedly. That's like one of the things that could have happened. And it just is infuriating to hear about.

[B]

Well, the thing is too, and I think your cousin's story is an example of this. You don't know the state Asha was in after. If she was hit by a car, if that is the case and if they would have brought her to a hospital, would she be here today? There's so many unanswered questions. And this family deserves justice. They deserve closure. They deserve to know what happened to their daughter. And something here is not right.

[A]

Someone knows something. I think it's someone in this family. And I am just again, I hope so bad. We learn this year. Yeah, but there's just information that comes forward.

[B]

There's a lot of speculation that they still haven't really released knowledge of all the items found in the backpack. There's a lot of speculation that they do have something. They're just waiting for the final straw that breaks the camel's back.

[A]

We don't know all of the things that were in the backpack.

[B]

Not yet.

[A]

Know some of the things. Yeah, right. We're right. So maybe there's more stuff that has DNA on it. They don't. Also, I'll add to like they don't know or it hasn't. Skip Foster, when he was talking about this, he couldn't remember if it was the T shirt that had the DNA on it or if it was something else in the bag that had the youngest deadman girl's DNA on it. So it's also. Yeah, it's just interesting, like where the DNA was found and what it was on. I'm curious if there's like fingerprints or anything on those trash bags? Cause I feel like that would have a lot of information for us. But they're retesting those.

[B]

I know. And we still have that picture of the other little girl.

[A]

If that stuff was actually, I am curious if, like, the candy that was found at that scene at the shed was also in Asia's backpack. Because to me, that would finally tie those two scenes together and make it.

[B]

Sure that it was hers, not someone else's.

[A]

I know. Because right now we're still not entirely sure, but, like, yeah, is that all part of it? Is there another little girl somewhere that also went missing?

[B]

Is that a weird coincidence, a red herring? Red herrings are really on my mind today. There's a lot in this case that's for sure. And I'd love to see what you guys think in the comments if there's any loose ends we haven't covered. I know Reddit has gone down the rabbit hole on this one, and I got really lost in it. I got really confused because, I mean, why would she seemingly leave her house? And it's just.

[A]

That's a big unanswered question. Was she meeting someone else? Like, was she trying to meet someone? Was she running away? A lot of people think she was running away because she brought her backpack and her purse and a change of clothes. It's just like there's so many unanswered questions, but hopefully we know a little bit more by the end of the year.

[B]

I know. I. I really feel like we are so close to having this case really cracked.

[A]

We do an episode every year on Heart Starts Pounding that is cold cases that were solved this year, and I really hope I can put this one on there.

[B]

Oh, my God, that'd be amazing.

[A]

That would be amazing. Now, if you have any information on Asia degree, you can definitely call in those tips. The Charlotte FBI is at 704-672-6100. You can also call the national center for Missing and exploited children at 1-800-THE LOST. That's 1-800-843-5678, because as we've seen over and over again, sometimes the biggest breaks, especially in this case, come from some of the smallest clues and witness statements. And with that, let's talk about our Missing Person of the Week. This week, we are highlighting the case of Ruthie Smith. Now, this did come from a listener. We are definitely reading all the comments, you guys, and this one is really scary and really important. So Ruthie Smith also was known to go by the names Grayson or Winter she was born on December 27, 2002 and was last seen on March 3, 2022. She's described as biracial, black and white. She's female. She has brown hair and brown eyes and is about 5, 6. When she went missing, she was reported at being around 152lbs. She was 19 years old and she was last seen on the east side of Los Angeles. One of the last sightings of Ruthie was on actually CCTV footage where she can be seen getting into the passenger seat of a car before it drives off. The license plate is not visible in that video, but that was around Figueroa street where they were able to recover that footage from her. Family as well as friends do believe that she is the victim of human trafficking and that she was getting in the car and the people involved maybe trafficked her. So any tips that can come in about her disappearance are really, really, really appreciated. Ruthie also has a pierced nose and a pierced belly button. She has the names Ezra and Lemarion tattooed near one of her ears and the name Ocean, which is her child's name, tattooed on her chest along with a wave.

[B]

There is a quote here from her mother, Catherine Rhonesto, quote, somebody somewhere knows something. We want to return her to her daughter. Ocean deserves her mommy. Ruthie deserves life. Only 1% of these victims come back alive. My daughter deserves to be that 1%. So I beg the public, you see something, say something.

[A]

Anyone who has any information on Ruthie Smith is urged to call lbpd. That's the Long Beach Police Department Missing person detail at 562-570-7246 or police dispatch at 562-435-6711. And if you want to remain anonymous, you can submit a tip through LA CrimeStoppers by calling 1-800-222-TIPS. That's 1-800-222-8477 or by visiting LA crimestoppers.org.

[B]

I know we have a lot of listeners in LA, so let's get the word out. For sure.

[A]

Absolutely. It seems like this one was really not as publicized, probably because it involves human trafficking. Trafficking, but please, that's. That's when I know the family is desperate to get more information.

[B]

Absolutely. And as always, we share infographics on our Instagram page Clues Podcast. So go over there, share them on your story, especially if you're in around la, Long Beach, San Bernardino, all places that kind of have a connection to her. So. So let's get the word out.

[A]

Absolutely. And that is all we have for this episode of Clues today. Thanks for joining us yet again to unravel a pretty heartbreaking and frustrating case. But I think I speak for both of us when I say that I'm pretty optimistic about this one. I really, really hope that we can get some answers, especially for Asia's family because they've gone way too long without knowing what's happened. We want to hear from you guys. Guys, now I'm curious to hear your thoughts, your theories, your feedback. All of that really makes this community special.

[B]

Absolutely. At Crime House, we really value your support. So share all your thoughts on social media and remember to rate, review and follow clues. It helps others discover our show and gets the word out on all of this. And if you're hungry for even more content, we've got you covered. For more exclusive content, monthly bonus episodes, early access and ad free free listening, join our Crime House plus community on Apple Podcasts.

[A]

All right, we'll be back next week with another case for you guys. And until then, keep searching and we will see you next week on Clues.

[B]

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