← Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore
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A
Hi listeners. It's Carter Roy, host of True Crime Stories. I wanted to let you know that Crime House and Murder True Crime Stories are celebrating America's 250th by dropping a four part limited series on the crimes that built America. These are the crimes and cases that gave us Miranda rights, sparked criminal profiling, and and a murder that built America's missing children movement. Follow Murder True Crime Stories for a new episode every Monday leading up to July 4th. Or you can binge all of them right now ad free with Crime House Plus. To join, go to crimehouseplus.com or if you're listening on Apple Podcasts, tap try free at the top of this show's page. This is Crime House.
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B
Sage Smith, a vulnerable trans girl, leaves home to meet a date she's never seen again. With no forensic evidence, her case goes cold until the top person of interest goes missing too.
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Then, on the 13th anniversary of Sage's disappearance, the police announce a major update. One that should have finally cracked the case open. So why are we still wondering what exactly happened to Sage Smith?
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B
Foreign.
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C
Hi guys. Welcome back to Clues, where we sneak past the crime scene tape to explore the key evidence behind some of the most gripping true crime cases.
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B
I'm Kaylin Moore. I'm gonna be the one digging deeper into the timelines, the backstories, and the court files released on these cases.
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C
And I'm your Internet sleuth Morgan Abshur. I'm the one who's diving into the Reddit forums, talk about the lesser known details and pulling out the threads that just don't add up. And don't forget to share your thoughts on social want ad free listening and early access. Subscribe to Crime House plus on Apple Podcasts and make sure to go back and listen to our previous episodes wherever you get your podcasts. Now let's get into Sage Smith's case and the clues that defined it. One of this week's partners is Ello. When your day moves fast between getting everyone out the door, meal prepping, and trying to find a small moment for yourself, the products you use are should make things easier, not harder. That's where Ello comes in.
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Their water bottles are easy to refill, easy to carry, and leak proof, so you can toss them in your bag without second guessing it. They're designed to keep up with your busy day and make staying hydrated feel a little more doable.
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And when it comes to leftovers or meal prepping. Their glass food storage containers make it simple to save dinner for tomorrow or take meals on the go with secure lids that help where it should be and not in the bottom of your bag.
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Visit elloproducts.com and use code TRYELO20 for 20 off your first purchase. That's E L L O P R O-U C T S.com code TRYLO20 this
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episode is brought to you by Zazzle. We have a lot of holidays coming up. I feel like we just had Mother's Day. Father's Day is coming up, and it can be really hard to find a gift that feels personal for your loved ones. Not a gift card, not something off of a shelf, something that says you actually thought about the person. And that's why I'm excited to talk to you about Zazzle today. Zazzle is a custom marketplace where you can take basically any product, like a mug, a tote bag, a card, or a phone case, and you can make it mean something. You're not buying a gift, you're making one. You can browse millions of designs, or you can start from scratch and build something that's completely your own, something that really is meaningful to the person you're giving the gift to. Either way, you're the designer. This has been a great thing that I've been using recently because I just had a baby, so my dad is now a grandpa, My mom's a grandma, my husband is a dad. I get to make all these fun gifts for people that I wasn't giving them a year ago. They also have onesies and bibs and other cute little things that I can make for my baby, which I love right now. Save 25% on your first order at zazzle. Com. That's 25% savings on your first order at Zazzle. Com. Go make something zamazing Zazzle. Com.
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C
This is a big one today. Yeah, this is a big one. It's gonna open up a lot of conversation, I think, about, you know, the risk that the trans community is at, especially black trans women.
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B
I know, I know.
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C
But before we get into it today, I just have a favor to ask of you guys. If you're into the romantasy genre, can you please recommend some new books for me in the comments?
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B
Cause you're tearing through them. I see your Instagram stories, and you're like, I finished five Court of Daisies and Dragons.
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C
Yeah, I went through all the Fourth Wing books in about five days. Loved Fourth Wing. I'm on the third book of Acotar and I have a very intense personality when it comes to books, and once I get started, I can't stop. So I've read Acotar. I'm almost done with the third, and that'll be in about a week.
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B
And how many are in the whole series? Series that.
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C
There's five that are out now, but apparently this third one kind of wraps up my main characters and then they kind of dive in from other people's perspectives or something.
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B
That's fun. I like when books do that. By books, I mean Twilight, when they did that.
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C
Midnight Sun.
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B
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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So I'm like. I'm. After I read 4th Wing, I was in a pit of despair like no other, because I'm like, where do I go from here? It was so good. So if you have any other book recommendations, like, reading is kind of my, like, brain break. Especially after, like, researching stuff or.
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B
Oh, totally.
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C
Podcast. I'm like, okay, I need a brain break. And so if you have any recs, please put them in the comments for me.
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B
If I were to start with Fourth Wing or Acotar, which one do you think I should start with?
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C
I would do Fourth Wing.
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B
Oh, interesting. Okay. Okay.
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C
It's just so good.
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B
One day I'm going to dive into it. I think it's, like, intimidating to start with because they're so big and there's so many.
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C
It goes so fast. And I've also, like, hacked it. Where? I love the graphic audio versions. Not the basic audio versions. The voices on that one are horrible. The graphic.
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B
What does that mean?
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C
I'll show you.
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B
Okay.
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C
Like, graphic, like always graphic.
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Oh, my goodness. I'm a mother now. No, just kidding.
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C
It's just so good. There's like sound effects, like dragon huffs and stuff. Fairy twinkles.
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B
Yeah, that's fun. No, I like that. Okay, thank you for the recommendation.
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C
It sets it in the mind more, but. Okay, let's. Let's get serious here.
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B
Yeah, this is a big one we're gonna dive into. And as a quick reminder, anyone who's watching this on YouTube, you're gonna see some videos, pictures that are going to help you visualize the case. And if you're listening, you can find the same pictures and videos on our socials that's at Clues podcast on Instagram.
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And just a trigger warning before we begin. This episode does contain discussions of murder, hate crimes, blackmail, sex work, assault, and other sex acts. So please just listen with care today.
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This case begins on November 20, 2012, in Charlottesville, Virginia. Charlottesville is a College town, home to the University of Virginia. And it's also where 19 year old sage Smith calls home that night. Sage is busy getting ready for a date and Sage takes fashion, hair, makeup pretty seriously. Sage is hard to miss in a crowd. She's nearly six feet tall and that's without accounting for her favorite three inch heels that she was known to wear all the time or the dramatic wigs that she would wear over her long braided hair. However, that night it was pretty cold out, so as Sage is getting ready to head out, she puts on dark gray sweatpants, a black jacket, gray and black rain boots and a hoodie before she leaves the house at around 5:40pm At 6:35pm, Sage's stepsister Kiera Morgan happens to see Sage around the intersection of West Main street and fourth Street Northwest in Charlottesville. And it seems like Sage has just gotten off of the bus. Sage briefly chats with Kiera and says she's on her way to meet someone at the nearby Amtrak station which is three blocks away. And as Sage leaves, Kira overhears her on the phone saying, quote, be there in five minutes. And it seemed so innocent at the time. Sage excited to be going on a date. No one knew that that would be the last time anyone ever saw her. But let's rewind a little bit before Sage disappeared and talk about who Sage was as a person. So Sage spent her entire life in Charlottesville. She was born on December 13, 1992. Sage's parents, Dean and Latasha divorced when Sage was very young and Dean was later incarcerated for drug offenses. When Dean was in prison, Latasha struggled to care for Sage. And by the time sage was three, she actually moved in with her 36 year old paternal grandmother, Lolita Smith, who always went by Ms. Cookie.
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C
And Ms. Cookie is like who you envision as this just like loving, caring grandma.
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B
Yes. She seems like a story, like that's a name you would read in like a storybook.
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C
Like when you guys see interviews of Ms. Cookie, like she is just so vibrant and just like a southern grandma, like exactly what you'd envision. No.
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B
And she was amazing. She was really ready to give Sage the life that she wanted and deserved. Ms. Cookie found a nicer house for them to live in in the neighborhood of Fifeville of Charlottesville is just over a mile away from their old complex. And 12 year old sage took the fresh start as an opportunity to make new friends, including her very first friend, 11 year old Shakira Washington. Over time, Shakira became more like A sister to Sage, as Shakira herself identified as a trans woman. And it was through this friendship that Sage got the courage to come out to her grandmother as gay. Ms. Cookie talks about this moment too, having, like, a really sweet reaction to this news. She says something like, you're not telling me nothing I didn't already know. Yeah, Just fully embraced it and so supportive. Really loved Sage. Now, at the time that this happened, Sage was still going by their legal name, Dashad, and was also presenting as male, but still being a queer person of color in the south in the early 2000s. It must have been scary coming out to your family regardless.
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C
Yeah. And not everyone was as supportive. I've watched interviews with the family, and Sage's dad kind of mentioned, like, I didn't understand it, and so basically said to Sage, like, don't contact me, don't call my phone.
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B
Yeah, Was not supportive of.
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C
Was not supportive, you know, but other family members were. So it kind of, you know, Sage had support and then, you know, had a complicated relationship with dad then.
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B
Yeah, yeah. Sage's life in FIFO was shaping up to be a pretty happy one, all things considered. But that didn't last forever. At some point after the move, Ms. Cookie returned sage to her biological mother, Latosha Dennis. And we don't know why, but Ms. Cookie had multiple serious health conditions, including congestive heart failure and breast cancer. And it may have been related to that why she sent Sage back. Either way, things hadn't really improved on Latasha's end. She was unable to meet Sage's basic needs, and Sage ended up in the foster care system shortly after that. There was kind of a silver lining to that. In 2010, when Sage turned 18, Sage qualified for a housing program for foster youth aging out of the system. This program paid for Sage to rent a two bedroom apartment in Charlottesville near Ms. Cookie. Sage invited two friends to move with her. Shakira, who was turning 18, and a classmate from elementary school, another gender fluid friend, Aubrey Carson, who had reconnected with sage via MySpace. Just a note here from, like, the research that we were doing. So at the time that Aubrey was living with Sage, Aubrey preferred she her pronouns and would wear feminine clothing, but did identify as a gay man. Since then, just based off social media accounts that we found of Aubry's and later interviews, it does seem that Aubry now uses he him pronouns. So that's how we're going to refer to Aubry. And just a general note, like all the pronouns that are in this episode, Came from the preferred pronouns of the people involved. So the three roommates were all young, gender expansive, and queer. They were all from low income families, and they developed a tight friendship because they just had this really important part of their identity in common.
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C
Yeah. Such a shared experience.
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B
Such a. Such a shared experience. Exactly. And they even gave their shared apartment a nickname, the dollhouse mansion, for the neon walls that they had inside. And they made it look like a Barbie dream house. And this group just always was looking out for one another. When they would go to parties, they always made sure to keep tabs on each other during hookups. You know, they wanted to make sure that each other was safe. Sage once hid in the bushes outside of a man's house to make sure that Shakira left safely.
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C
That's a friend.
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B
That's not a friend. I don't know what it is.
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C
That's a friend.
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B
And moved as a pack outside of the apartment, Mainly because they had experienced street harassment, Largely due in part to their gender expression. So they just always made sure to stick together. One time, when Sage and Aubrey were out together wearing feminine clothing, an angry mob chased them before they were able to finally get away. And dealing with harassment on top of poverty and also just the normal challenges of young adulthood. They were all under a lot of stress, really, at any given moment. And sometimes they would take it out on each other. Sage's dad, Dean, who at this time was out of prison and had reconciled with Sage after initially not being supportive, he one time said that Shakira and Aubrey were jealous of Sage. It was Sage's name on the apartment. And Sage had a family that was much more supportive of her journey. And she also had step siblings and half siblings. It didn't seem like these roommates were equally lucky in terms of the amount of support and acceptance that they were getting from their family. And plus, a lot of people said that Sage just had this magnetism about her. People were drawn to her. Sage easily got attention at the only queer nightclub in Charlottesville. One acquaintance described people gathering around Sage like campers at a campfire.
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C
Yeah. And Sage loved to dance.
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B
Yes.
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C
We've seen some YouTube videos of sage dancing. And grandma even was like, no one was telling Sage she couldn't dance. Like, it's exactly. It's really, really cute.
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B
And that just really, like, drew people to her when she would go out.
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C
Absolutely.
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B
And even outside of the nightlife scene, it seemed like everyone in town had a story about Sage. Like the one time that Sage carried an old man's groceries for him while she was wearing her miniskirt and high heels. Sage's classmates at Charlottesville High School remembered Sage for helping other queer students accept themselves as part of the school's LGBTQIA+ support group.
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C
Yeah, and I was actually, as I was like scouring Reddit, there was a comment that I found from A user National EB3029 that says this quote. I only knew Sage very briefly. We met on the downtown mall. While I was upset and crying, Sage came up to me and told me I was too pretty to be crying and gave me a hug.
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B
And that's just the kind of person that Sage was.
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C
I'm like, where was Sage when I
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needed Sage when I was crying at the mall?
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C
Oh, man.
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B
Now, despite what was going on in Sage's personal life, she always managed to keep a focus on her future. She graduated from Charlottesville high school in 2011 at the age of 18, the first in her family to get a high school diploma. Sage started braiding hair from home to make ends meet and realized that could be a career path. She wanted to pursue cosmetology. So she scraped together some money to start on cosmetology classes. And she also got a part time job sweeping hair in a salon. But that was not quite enough to keep Sage going through school. Instead, she had to turn to other part time work as well as earn cash under the table in order to have enough money. The Dollhouse Mansion residents sometimes did accept money for sex, especially from men. Kind of on the down low, they would say. Sage got into the habit of finding dates by posting casual encounter ads to Craigslist, but Shakira thought that this was too risky to do. Supposedly, Craigslist was where Sage connected with the man that she was planning to meet on November 20, 2012. And also, I'll just say, too, Craigslist was a very different place in 2012 when this was going on. There are a lot of safeguards in place now to make sure that like trafficking and like this kind of stuff doesn't happen on Craigslist. But back then it was kind of the Wild west and there was, you know, you were meeting anonymous people in person that, you know.
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C
And I don't know if I'm misrecalling this, but I feel like the case we covered on the Gilgo beach murders, I feel like, yeah, he also found some of these women from Craigslist.
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B
Craigslist ads, yeah, definitely.
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C
Yeah, it was very risky.
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B
Yes. And unfortunately, that was the night that she never made it home. Now, Aubrey told reporters that he was asleep in his room at the Dollhouse Mansion when Sage left the house at around 5:40pm on Nov. 20. When Aubrey woke up around 8pm he called Sage to check in, but it went directly to voicemail. Aubrey immediately knew that something was wrong because the one thing that Sage would never do was let her cell phone die during a hookup. Family even knew Sage would take her charger everywhere. So something was immediately off about this. When Sage still wasn't back by 9am the next morning, Aubrey called Shakira, who was out of town, and asked what they should do. Shakira told Aubrey to call Ms. Cookie and find out how Sage's family wanted them to handle the situation. And when Aubrey spoke to Ms. Cookie, she suggested giving Sage till the end of the day to come back. And if Sage wasn't home by 10pm Aubrey should call the police. But by that afternoon, Aubrey just couldn't wait any longer. It was really just starting to feel like something was wrong. He was sure that Sage wouldn't stay out of touch this long. So Aubrey called the police even sooner than Ms. Cookie said that he should. But when the police got there, Aubrey's impression was that the police weren't especially interested in what he had to say. They calmly took down Sage's name and birthday. They asked for a photo. But at this point, word had gotten to more of Sage's family about the disappearance. So Sage's dad, Dean, decided to start investigating on his own the night of November 21st. He wasn't going to wait until morning for the cops to start looking for his baby. And once he searched the Dollhouse Mansion, he found that there was something else that was missing, something that was very important to Sage. This episode is brought to you by alma. Alma is on a mission to simplify access to high quality, affordable mental health care. When you want to talk to a therapist, the last thing you want to do is fight with insurance. Figure out if someone's available. Like the process can be long that it actually turns you off from doing it. But Alma has built a community of over 26,000 diverse therapists. Also, clients with insurance pay $20 on
- [18:41]
C
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Yes, over 1 million people have found care with Alma. Get started now@helloalma.com clues that's hello Alma.com Cl E S
- [19:20]
A
hi listeners. It's Carter Roy, host of Murder True Crime Stories. I wanted to let you know that Crime House plus and Murder True Crime Stories are celebrating America's 250th by dropping a four part limited series on the crimes that built America. These are the crimes and cases that gave us Miranda rights, sparked criminal profiling, and a murder that built America's missing children movement. Follow Murder True Crime Stories for a new episode every Monday leading up to July 4th. Or you can binge all of them right now ad free with Crime House Plus. To join, go to crimehouseplus.com or if you're listening on Apple Podcasts, tap try free at the top of this show's page.
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B
This episode is brought to you by Minky Couture.
- [20:11]
C
You're never going to want to have another blanket on you again. Especially for all of our late night true crime bingers. The blankets from Minky Couture are perfect for cuddling up, hiding yourself in after a long day of recording.
- [20:23]
B
I mean, you can tell how much I love the blankets already. They have their famous Hugs blanket that literally feels like it's hugging you back after a long day. I love to just wrap myself up in it. It's truly the best.
- [20:35]
C
It's like being wrapped in a cloud. And it's not overly heavy. It really is the perfect weight and the softest fabric.
- [20:42]
B
So soft.
- [20:42]
C
Anytime I have it on me, I just want to like anytime I have it on, I just want to pet myself.
- [20:46]
B
I know. Also, Minky Couture is a female owned business founded by a mother wanting to comfor daughter during a difficult time and since 2009 they've focused on warmth, comfort and giving back. They've also donated over a hundred thousand mini minkies to NICUs every year through their Heart of Minky initiative.
- [21:06]
C
So lock your doors, queue up your favorite true crime podcast at Clues and get into the best blanket ever. Visit minky couture.com and use code CLUES at checkout for 50% off all full priced blankets. That's Minky Couture. Use code clues for 50% off all full priced blankets. On the night of November 21, 2012, about 24 hours after Sage Smith was last seen, Sage's father Dean went to the dollhouse Mansion. He was looking for anything that might indicate where his child had disappeared to. And what he found, or rather didn't find, is our first clue. According to Dean, all of Sage's wigs were gone. Sage loved to wear wigs. I mean, she wanted to go to cosmetology school and be a hairdresser.
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B
Yeah.
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C
So there wasn't really a reason that all of them would be missing. Like, why would Sage go out for a date and take all of her wigs at one time?
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B
All the wigs? Yeah.
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C
And even more so when, you know, Dean talks to Sage's stepsister Kiera, who was the last person to see her, and said that she didn't remember Sage carrying a bag at all. Definitely not something large enough that would hold a collection of wigs.
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B
Yeah.
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C
So Dean reasoned that someone other than Sage must have taken the wigs out of Sage's room. And from Dean's point of view, the only person who would have wanted the wigs and had access to the apartment was Aubrey. I mean, Shakira was still out of town at this point, but Aubrey wasn't the only person Dean was finding suspicious. He did later notice another friend of Sage's wearing her locket. When asked where the locket came from, the friend said, quote, my boyfriend gave it to me. So Dean was starting to feel a little suspicious of kind of Sage's friend group, who he had already sensed was maybe jealous of Sage. But Aubrey had another take on this. Aubrey said that the roommates often shared things, including wigs, and he didn't take anything from Sage's collection. We don't know if Dean questioned the friend who had Sage's locket or anyone else about the wigs. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like the police looked into the wig mystery either.
- [23:12]
B
The police did start investigating the next morning, Thursday, November 22, 2012, which was Thanksgiving Day. They began by interviewing members of Sage's family. And everyone agreed that Sage would have never disappeared voluntarily. Sage was looking forward to Thanksgiving dinner with the family. And Sage also would never ignore Ms. Cookie's calls. They spoke basically every single day. Police also spoke with Kiera, Sage's stepsister, who last saw her. And Kiera told the police about how she had seen Sage. And she was talking on the phone saying, I'll see you in five minutes, basically to someone. After getting Sage's last known location from Kierra, they searched the area near the bus stop and asked surrounding businesses for surveillance footage. Unfortunately, they did not find a single place with cameras that could have picked up where Sage went. Instead, they shifted their focus to searching vacant lots, dumpsters, parking lots, trash cans, and other places where they might find a body or evidence. Which I think kind of goes to show even in the police's mind, like, what typically happens to trans women when they disappear? Like, I don't think we've ever, like, covered a case where the day that someone goes missing, the police just start opening trash cans. Cuz they're like, we'll probably find a body in here. That is like the darkest part of the entire investigation to me.
- [24:32]
C
It's. It's absolutely horrendous. And I think something, you know, that I wanted to kind of touch on with this case is how disproportionately affected black trans women are.
- [24:42]
B
Yeah.
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C
From attacks, murder, and the rate at which trans people are being murdered is doubling. It's just going up over the years.
- [24:49]
B
Yeah.
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C
And black trans women account for nearly three quarters of the known victims. So it's also like, really important to address the context that, like, Sage is a black trans woman.
- [25:00]
B
Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, you can just even see it in the way the police respond to this case. They're just like, well, oh, it's so dark. And even though they start immediately looking for a body, nothing turns up. And the police actually end the first day with no real progress.
- [25:14]
C
The next day, November 23, police tried another tactic to find Sage. And that's when they discovered our second clue. Sage's cell phone records. Now, this is where the research we have coming from. Our researcher kind of differs from what the family says in interview, which you're
- [25:30]
B
gonna kind of hear that a couple times in this story, like what the family says and what the investigators say just don't always add up.
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C
A lot of conflicting reports. And, you know, you'll see why with this clue especially. So in one of the articles, our researcher links, basically, police says they were able to get Sage's cell phone records. They don't say how. And it's really unclear, especially because this wasn't a criminal investigation at this point. There wasn't a search warrant obtained. As far as we can tell. When you listen to family interviews, Sage's dad reports that, like, they actually started guessing Sage's passwords and got into the phone.
- [26:10]
B
Yeah.
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C
So again, it's just like, very conflicting how they got Sage's cell phone records. But we do have them.
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B
Yeah.
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C
And something about the texts and call history was jumping off the page to everyone. The last call sage received at 6:36pm right after Kierra Saw her was from an unknown number. And the number had an out of state area code. And according to dad, from an interview I saw, dad was like, we called them a hundred thousand times, Nothing, nothing. But instead of opening a criminal investigation at this point and seeking a warrant to identify the caller, police said they basically gave the number to Sage's family to see if they recognized it. Again, family's like, we already had the number. So just again, very conflicting here. Dean Sage's dad then actually posted the number to his Facebook page asking for help identifying this mystery caller. Pretty quickly, Dean actually got a message from someone named Yami Ortiz. And Dean did recognize her as a trans woman who shared some friends with Sage. And Yami told Dean that she actually knew who that number belonged to. A 21 year old named Eric McFadden. He was just a year older than Sage, 5 foot 10 tall with dark skin, mid length hair, often worn in locks. Unlike Sage and Yami, Eric didn't openly identify as a member of the LGBTQ community. He presented himself to others as a straight male who actually happened to have a girlfriend at that time who attended the University of Virginia. But Yami told police that she and Eric had met several times for sex. And something that was odd was Eric was already on Yami's mind even before she saw Dean post his number to Facebook because he had actually contacted her out of the blue two days earlier. On November 21, the day after Sage was last seen. Not for hookup, though, Eric asked Yami to delete his number.
- [28:11]
B
Just out of the blue. Just texted that.
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C
Delete my number. After they've had already been like, hooking up. Delete my number. Something I wanted to track this episode is sus behavior.
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B
Yeah.
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C
And this is like, it's not illegal. It's just feeling.
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B
Not a botch.
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C
Sus.
- [28:27]
B
There's part. It's. It's sus for sure. Is there any part of you that is like, oh, his girlfriend got his phone and texted that.
- [28:35]
C
Possibly, I mean, possibly. Yami was used to dealing with guys who wanted to keep their relationship with trans women a secret, so she wasn't alarmed by the request at first. I mean, again, you never know. Maybe girlfriend found it. But when Sage went missing, it started clicking together of like, why would Eric text me that the day after?
- [28:57]
B
I mean, it's sus. It is reflected on the board.
- [29:00]
C
Now that the police knew who the number belonged to, they used Sage's text history and call history to get a picture of Sage's connection to Eric. And they quickly learned that Sage and Eric had been hooking up for at least a few weeks. In between their meetings, they exchanged some graphic sex, making that clue number three. According to police, it did seem like Eric had given Sage money. It seems like Eric might have been more than just an income source to sage though. In October 2012, a month before Sage went missing, she tweeted about how turned on she was by someone with, quote, nice teeth, nice smile, dark skin. And as far back as April 2012, Sage was tweeting about enjoying sex with a man who wore his hair in locks. Now, we obviously don't know for sure if Sage was referring to Eric, but it does fit his description. Based on their text. Eric was also who Sage planned to meet on November 20, the night of her disappearance. Their text messages from the evening went like this. 5:17pm, Sage texted Eric, quote, when are you leaving? At 5:20pm Eric replied that he was already at the Hampton Inn. This is close to where Kiara actually saw Sage and was near the Amtrak station. So it was kind of lining up that like maybe Sage was headed towards the hotel near the Amtrak station.
- [30:25]
B
Yes.
- [30:25]
C
Now, when Eric said he was already at the Hampton Inn Hotel, Sage was actually still getting ready and didn't leave the Dollhouse mansion until about 5:40pm At 6:08pm, Eric texted, quote, where you at? At 6:12 he followed up with, quote, I'm standing here, where are you? Sage didn't answer, maybe because at 6:18, Sage began a call with a friend from Northern Virginia. They actually talked for 19 minutes. Police haven't disclosed whether Sage placed or received that call, but she was still on the phone with her friend when at 6:27pm, Eric texted Sage again saying, quote, bye. You stood me up. Smh. It seemed like that didn't discourage Sage though because she still appeared to be on her way eight minutes after that text when she saw Kiara. Eric then called sage at 6:36pm, which might explain Kiera's memory of hearing Sage be like, be there in five minutes on the phone. What's weird is the 19 minute phone call with Sage's friend ended at 6:37pm, which was a minute after saying be there in five minutes. Now, police aren't able to tell if Eric's call went to voicemail. So it's unclear if Sage was saying that to her friend or if Sage had put the call with the friend on hold and answered Eric's call and then been like, be there in five minutes. So it's unclear who the be there in five minutes is even Getting told to.
- [31:57]
B
Yeah. And I guess I'm trying to remember, but you could do that with an iPhone in 2012. Put a call on hold, answer the other call, hang that call up, and then return to the last phone call you were taking.
- [32:10]
C
Yeah, I feel like I did that on landlines. Didn't you get. We have. Yeah, we have. We have a producer chiming in, being like, yeah, call waiting existed on iPhones.
- [32:19]
B
Yeah, okay.
- [32:20]
C
Yeah, I know, I know. I feel like I had it on a landline where, like.
- [32:23]
B
I mean, it must. It must.
- [32:25]
C
I was like, how old are we?
- [32:26]
B
Yeah, I know. I'm like, what's a phone?
- [32:29]
C
It's also insane when we look at other cases we've covered, like John o' Keefe's case and the Karen Reed trial, where we have such insane technology with phones down to the minute of when people search things. And it's like, back in 2012, we couldn't tell if the phone was on hold or if it went to voicemail.
- [32:45]
B
No, I know. Well, and that's why I asked, too, because, like, I just covered a case or was, like, working on a. Covering a case where the girl involved pops off the back of her phone and does something. And so a lot of the online debate is where were SIM cards on this one type of phone in 2016 when this happened? Like, were they on the side or was it. And it was actually under the battery. So she was either dismantling her phone to take the battery out so that no one could track her or swapping her SIM card. Yeah, yeah. But it's just. Yeah. You have to remember how fast the technology changes, and that can change a lot about a case.
- [33:18]
C
Yeah. Regardless, when Eric did make that call, Sage was walking in the direction of the Hampton Inn, where Eric was claiming to be in those text messages. Yeah, but police weren't the only people who knew about Eric's connection to the case. Remember, it was actually Sage's dad, Dean, who got Eric's number from Yami. Sage's family didn't really trust the Charlottesville police to follow this lead or take Sage's case very seriously. And now there's a lot of history, I think, in Charlottesville that would kind of make these feelings more understood. And in as recent as 2003, there was actually a scandal in which the local cops connected DNA from nearly 200 black men in a single sexual assault investigation. And the ACLU had to actually step in and be like, this is not right.
- [34:09]
B
Yeah, this is getting out of hand.
- [34:10]
C
So between that and Dean Sage's dad feeling like I had been racially profiled and pulled over a lot during traffic stops, unjustly. There was just, like, not a lot of faith that the police were gonna do their job and take Sage's case seriously. The family decided to start looking into Eric themselves. Sage's aunt found Eric's social media accounts. Dean pulled Eric's photo off of his profile and then posted it to his own Facebook page. The police actually think that Eric saw that and it scared him enough to do something about it. Because the next day, November 24, the police got a phone call. It was from a student at the University of Virginia named Esther Ianni. She wanted to report someone missing. Bringing us to our fourth clue, another disappearance. Esther had gone home to visit her family for Thanksgiving, leaving her boyfriend in their shared apartment alone. But when she got back, he wasn't there. And now he wasn't answering calls or texts. And he hadn't shown up at his job at a local Sherwin Williams store either. The name of that boyfriend that Esther gave to police, Eric McFadden.
- [35:20]
B
I mean, come on.
- [35:22]
C
When Esther hears that the police were actually looking for her boyfriend in regards to Sage Smith's disappearance, it was a huge surprise. Huge. And now Eric is nowhere to be found. Now, Esther didn't know the extent of what was actually going on, but she did agree to help the police in any way that she could. Police scheduled a meeting with Esther for two days later, Monday, November 26th. But before that could happen, Eric actually reached out to Esther. On Sunday night, the 25th, he called and emailed her to say that he was in Washington, D.C. and could she send him some money. Sus. Very sus.
- [36:02]
B
I'm adding it to the suss board.
- [36:04]
C
Instead, Esther said Eric should contact the detectives handling Sage's case. The following day. Esther told the police about this interaction during her scheduled meeting with them. She also consented to a search of their apartment and. And detectives took Eric's laptop and clothes. If police found anything on the laptop, they have not shared that with the public. But running away made Eric seem even more suspicious than before. So now police are really eager to talk to him when they finally get a chance to do so. On Tuesday, November 27, a week after Sage's disappearance, Eric, apparently following Esther's advice, did actually call one of the detectives. Their brief conversation is our fifth clue. Eric admitted he was planning to meet up with Sage on November 20th near the Amtrak station, but claimed he, quote, got stood up. Eric insisted he had no idea what happened to Sage. After that, he also said he was currently in New York, although he offered no evidence to prove that. D.C. new York. Which is it?
- [37:11]
B
Yeah.
- [37:12]
C
When the detective asked why New York? Eric replied, quote, because I've never been to New York before.
- [37:18]
B
It also just feels a little sus. So I'm just gonna make another note.
- [37:21]
C
Keep making her. Next, the officer told him to come back to Charlottesville so we can talk in person. At which point, Eric ended the call. The short conversation didn't really give detectives a lot to work with, but they hope that Esther, his girlfriend, could maybe convince him to change his mind and continue to help them.
- [37:43]
B
Yeah, because without an arrest warrant or clarifying Sage's disappearance as a criminal case, police couldn't legally track Eric across state lines. And because they didn't consider this to be criminal, even though they were immediately looking for her body in trash cans, still doesn't officially register as criminal. They didn't want to ask the FBI to get involved just yet.
- [38:05]
C
We could put that on the botched board. It's just at this point, again, we've talked about this in many cases.
- [38:11]
B
Yeah.
- [38:12]
C
Different townships, different, you know, offices, departments have a hard time communicating. But your main person of interest is now fleeing. What appears to be fleeing is out of state, won't come back, won't talk to you, and you're not contacting other authorities. Just be like, hey, heads up. Maybe we need you involved.
- [38:33]
B
Or considering this to be criminal.
- [38:35]
C
Or considering it. But yet you were looking in dumpsters. I know.
- [38:38]
B
That's why I'm like, yeah. If your gut reaction is to look in a dumpster, it's. It's unfortunate that it couldn't have been considered criminal in nature so that an actual investigation could really get started on this. It's just so, so unfortunate. Now, when the police were asked why they didn't get an arrest warrant, a detective in 2017 actually said that this was a tactical move on their end. At the time, they believed that if they got an arrest warrant at that stage, it might have been challenged by a defense attorney later in the process, jeopardizing their ability to prosecute Eric later on. And, you know, maybe because it's also not criminal, they didn't want to get an arrest warrant if. Because that's, like, the thing that would be questioned in court. Right. Well, if this wasn't criminal, why are
- [39:19]
C
you arresting people violating his rights? It could be dicey.
- [39:23]
B
Yes. Sage's family was not impressed with that reasoning. They did not think that that police would have held off on an Arrest warrant if Sage was a white middle class cisgender woman. But that's the decision that the Charlottesville police ultimately made. So while they waited for Eric to come back to town on his own accord, both the police and the family continued their physical search for Sage. On November 28, eight days after Sage disappeared, police searched the area around the bus stop and the Amtrak station again. And at this time, they also searched Eric's neighborhood. And again, no evidence was found.
- [40:00]
C
And at this point, there are no mentions of dogs in the research I saw.
- [40:05]
B
Yeah, right.
- [40:05]
C
No mention of the hotel, which.
- [40:07]
B
That feels like a huge blind spot at this point in the investigation.
- [40:11]
A
Yeah.
- [40:12]
C
To me, that does feel a little botched. Like, yes, they were planning to go to the hotel. You have texts that say she's walking
- [40:18]
B
towards the hotel, someone is waiting for her at the hotel. That person has now fled. And you don't even ask the staff if she walked in the front door of the hotel. Yeah. To see. Yeah, like, yeah, yeah, definitely hit that on the bottom.
- [40:31]
C
It's feeling a little botched. And. And dogs too. I mean, we've seen how successful dog searches can be, and we know that dogs only have a limited window and before the scent goes away. Yeah.
- [40:43]
B
Dissipates. Like, are you not looking in the room that Eric was in? Who's clearly waiting in a room. There's cameras in hotels.
- [40:51]
C
Why are we not asking the hotel to see the room and bring in a dog or lumenol?
- [40:56]
B
I'm just confused.
- [40:58]
C
I'm confused by that part.
- [41:00]
B
I agree. Now, at the same time that all of this is happening, Sage's family worked with the pastor of a local church to organize a volunteer search party. And unfortunately, not many people in the community showed up to help. Neither the media nor the police offered any help spreading the word about the search. So Sage's family noticed that this was going very differently than a search for this girl named Morgan Harrington went. Now, Morgan was a 20 year old white woman who disappeared outside of a Metallica concert in Charlottesville just three years prior in 2009. Unfortunately, she was later found dead. But that case got huge, huge coverage, national coverage. It got involvement from the FBI. There was a $150,000 reward offered for every any information that led to information on her whereabouts.
- [41:50]
C
And again, FBI involvement, FBI involvement.
- [41:53]
B
And meanwhile, Sage's parents can't even get the local news to mention that she's missing.
- [41:58]
C
Thankfully, Esther, Eric's girlfriend, did have an update that might prove useful. She called the police on November 29 to say that Eric had decided to talk. Esther said that he was taking a bus back to Charlottesville. He was expected to arrive late the next evening, Friday, November 30th, at which point police could pick him up at the bus terminal. So some officers showed up. They waited for Eric's bus to arrive. Shortly before the bus was due to arrive, though, Esther got an email from Eric that made her heart sink. That email is clue number six for us. It read in part, quote, I'm heading out. This is what happened. I never did anything sexual with that guy, and he was blackmailing me. He wanted me to give him money, not to lie from saying we did it, and I did, and he agreed to stop. And then the next time he hit me up for money, I said no. We did meet up, but he had a lot of enemies. Me and him were walking and some people showed up and I kept walking, not looking back, end quote. Eric did end the email by telling Esther that he was going somewhere out Midwest and saying, even if we don't see each other again, I wanted you to know I really, really cared and loved you. End quote. Esther contacted detectives right away to basically tell them, yeah, he's not coming. Eric is on the run again. And he did admit in email to me that he had met up with Sage the night of her disappearance. He hadn't been stood up after all. Means that by his own admission, Eric McFadden was the last known person to see Sage on Alive.
- [43:40]
B
This episode is brought to you by Whatnot. I absolutely inherited my love of a good deal from my mom. She's the queen of the bargain hunt. I used to think that it was just her thing, but it turns out it's definitely my thing, too. And that's why I want to talk to you today about Whatnot. Whatnot is the largest live shopping marketplace in the United States. It's a live shopping app where you can find deals on fashion, beauty, bags, jewelry and more. And you almost never pay full price on whatnot. There are over 10,000 fashion, beauty and handbag sellers on the app. Going live 24.7so you can shop live with sellers who welcome you in and communities that keep you coming back. You can hop on a stream and score a stunning coach leather tote bag. Some people have found them for only $45 and they'll show you the interior lining. They'll also answer questions in real time on what you're looking for. It's a great place to shop brand names without the retail prices. Download Whatnot today and get $20 off and free shipping on your first purchase. Search whatnot W h a t N o t in the App Store. Sign up and start finding the best deals on the products you love with $20 off and free shipping on your first purchase.
- [44:45]
C
Hey, before we jump back into the show, let's take a quick break. But not just any break. This is a refreshing break with Snapple. We all know about Snapple's iconic Real Facts, so let's take a minute to go over some of my favorites. Snapple real fact 964 it is illegal in the United Kingdom to handle salmon in suspicious circumstances. Snapple Real fact 1013 it is illegal to sing off key in North Carolina. Snapple real fact 2033Americans consume 150 million hot dogs on July 4th. Snapple real fact 705 Every ton of recycled paper saves about 17 trees. So grab a Snapple, take a second and enjoy the moment because let's be honest, this might be the most refreshing part of your day. Snapple make your break more interesting. All right, now let's get back to clues.
- [45:38]
A
Hi, my name is Lloyd Lockridge and I'm the host of a new podcast from Odyssey called Family Lore. In this podcast I'm going to have people on to tell unusual and sometimes far fetched stories about their families.
- [45:49]
B
I've heard my whole life that she
- [45:50]
C
ended up at the Margarita.
- [45:52]
A
And then we're going to investigate those stories and find out how much of it is true. He gets a patent one month before the Wright Brothers.
- [45:58]
C
Oh my God.
- [45:59]
A
Please follow and listen to Family Lore, an Odyssey podcast available now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your shows.
- [46:08]
B
On November 30, 2012, ten days after 19 year old Sage Smith went missing, Eric McFadden admitted to seeing Sage on the night of her disappearance. But even after his email to his girlfriend about seeing Sage, police still didn't get a warrant that would have allowed them to track Eric across state lines.
- [46:28]
C
Botch. No mention of FBI either because like FBI can go all over.
- [46:33]
B
No, none of that.
- [46:34]
C
No FBI mention yet.
- [46:36]
B
You know, there's a chance that they were maybe hoping to find more forensic evidence because they spent December 1, which was the day after that email was sent, doing a canine search of the area where Sage was last seen and around Eric and Esther Esther's apartment. So they did finally bring in dogs. But at the same time, like you have someone who has admitted to seeing Sage last who also it seems like in this email Eric talks about witnessing the crime take place that maybe led to Sage's disappearance, like saying these people showed up and I kept walking, not looking back. So he kind of hints at the fact that. I mean, I don't think that's actually what happened. I think that's he's lying. But still, like, if you're taking it at face value, like Eric is saying that I watched a crime take place and Sage was kind of inferring. Sage was maybe killed by this group of people. Police still don't call him in to ask him more questions about this.
- [47:28]
C
Regardless. Yeah, regardless of what the truth actually is. Like, this is the person that potentially holds all the answers.
- [47:34]
B
Yes.
- [47:35]
C
And you're not gonna try to get him?
- [47:36]
B
You don't try to find him? No. They get dogs to go sniff around the area.
- [47:41]
C
Finally. Finally we get the dogs.
- [47:43]
B
Finally you get dogs. But I mean, like, there's again, it
- [47:45]
C
feels a little late now too, which is like dog's limited time.
- [47:49]
B
So they also took dogs to railroad tracks nearby and a pond. Why are you taking the dogs to a pond? Because you assume her body is in that pond. Like everything they're doing is assuming that she's dead. And there's still no escalation of this to a criminal investigation. One of the dogs seemed to pick up on Sage's scent near the water. So police called in divers that same day to do an underwater search, but they did not find anything related to Sage. Sadly, Sages 20th birthday passed on December 13th, and there were no new developments in her case. Later that month, between the 17th and the 21st, they mounted their biggest and their most expensive search effort yet. They headed about 70 miles southeast of Charlottesville to Henrico, Virginia, to scour a landfill. One that would have received the trash from Eric and Esther's apartment. And I mean, we've talked about how hard it is to search landfills before. It's just wild. They had to rake through 600 cubic yards of garbage, but came up completely empty handed. I mean, this is almost a month later. About a month later after she disappeared. So how much trash has been collected by that area in a month?
- [48:52]
C
Yeah, a lot.
- [48:53]
B
It's gonna be impossible to find something
- [48:56]
C
in there Again, from what I've seen and what our researcher, you know, provided too. No mention of hotel.
- [49:03]
B
Yeah, big old gap in this. This search did maybe contribute to an anonymous donor contributing $10,000 for information on Sage's case. There was a little bit more local media attention happening at this time. Some tips did come in from the public after that, but none of them really proved to be useful. So investigators Turned their attention back towards Sage's small circle of friends.
- [49:26]
C
It took police more than two weeks after Sage's disappearance to start interviewing her friends.
- [49:31]
B
I mean, botched again, two weeks.
- [49:33]
C
It's insane, especially considering one of those friends included Sage's roommate, Aubrey, who was the one who reported Sage missing. That interview brings us to our seventh clue. If you remember, Aubrey said that he was asleep alone at the Dollhouse mansion the night that Sage left home and didn't come back. Of course, there's no witnesses to corroborate this, so it's not the most sound alibi. But the police had something else on Aubrey that made them really suspicious. They found surveillance footage that showed Aubrey using Sage's EBT card at a gas station on November 21, the day after Sage went missing. A little. Little sus.
- [50:15]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
- [50:17]
C
Aubrey later used it again on December 2 at the convenience store. And again, at that point, it's very, very clear that Sage is missing. When confronted with the video, Aubrey said that the roommates all shared Sage's EBT benefits. He claimed that the groceries he bought were for everyone in the apartment, including Sage, who he still expected to come home. By this point, it sounded like the detectives were looking at Aubrey as a potential suspect. But Aubrey told a very different story about that interview. Aubrey actually said that detectives didn't seem very interested in treating Sage's disappearance like a crime at all. He said that they asked about a planned trip that he and Sage had taken a year before. They talked about it in the context of, quote, running away and suggested that Sage maybe just ran away. If they're suggesting that, though, why are they searching dumpsters?
- [51:09]
B
And also, like, a planned trip being running away.
- [51:13]
C
Yeah. And Aubrey said, no, like, both families knew where we were going.
- [51:17]
B
Yeah.
- [51:18]
C
It wasn't running away. This was a planned trip.
- [51:21]
B
I know.
- [51:22]
C
And then there was also the missing wig aspect that Sage's dad found suspicious. Again, nothing to suggest police looked into that. But outside of that, there was never any real evidence against Aubrey, Just the unconfirmable alibi and the questionable behavior with Sage's EBT card and wigs. But again, you have to look at. Also, like, Sage was such a caring person. They were already living with Sage in this government housing.
- [51:46]
B
Yeah.
- [51:46]
C
So I. I could see the EBT card sharing being very plausible.
- [51:51]
B
No. 100% I could.
- [51:53]
C
But detectives weren't done looking into the people who lived with Sage just yet. Eventually, they did speak to Shakira Washington, Sage's longtime friend and other roomie. And when they did, they Heard a concerning story. Shakira was staying with family in Norfolk, Virginia, about 170 miles away from Charlottesville when Sage disappeared. But it turns out that wasn't so random. Shakira left the Dollhouse mansion because of something that happened on November 19, the day before Sage disappeared. That also happened to be Shakir's 19th birthday. They had thrown a party at their apartment, but the celebration was ruined by an uninvited guest. A girl forced her way inside looking for a fight with one of Sage's friends who was also there. And the attacker brought friends for backup, which eventually turned into a full on brawl. Sage got drawn into it and ended up fighting a young male acquaintance named Jamel Smith. His connection to Sage's case is our eighth clue. After the fight on November 19th, police were actually called to break things up, and Jamel reported that Sage had damaged his car during this brawl. The cops did speak to both of them. No one was arrested. But side note here, does anyone else find it odd that the police didn't connect these dots sooner?
- [53:18]
B
Yeah, right, right.
- [53:20]
C
Like you just were called out. She's being reported missing the next day. Yeah, it just like it feels like kind of an oversight.
- [53:28]
B
Put it on a botch mark.
- [53:30]
C
I feel like it feels like you guys, it's what?
- [53:34]
B
Yeah, it's right there.
- [53:36]
C
Later that same night, Jamel posted a tweet saying, quote, been disrespected to the point of no return. End quote.
- [53:45]
B
Ominous.
- [53:46]
C
Very ominous. I mean, was he referring to Sage in this fight? But the night was a point of no return for Sage and Shakira too. In a way. Sage was furious that Shakira didn't join the fight and help. After the cops left, the friends argued so bitterly about this that Shakira didn't want to be in the apartment anymore. She called a family member in Norfolk to come and pick her up. And Sage's last words to Shakira were, quote, I hate you.
- [54:17]
B
That's really Sad.
- [54:18]
C
Less than 24 hours after that, Sage was gone. In 2016, Shakira told a reporter from Jezebel that the police had only talked to her once about Sage, and it was by phone. Shakira felt that they should have looked harder at Jamel Smith. A physical fight the night before Sage's disappearance seemed like a red flag to her. And police did later acknowledge that Jamel didn't have an alibi for the time of Sage's disappearance. Which again, is why that's botched. Like, it's like you could have connected the dots you had been called to a brawl the night before. Someone is then reported missing. You then find out he didn't have an alibi.
- [55:00]
B
Like, yeah, yeah, I know, I know.
- [55:02]
C
And it doesn't seem like they followed this Jamel lead at all. Though police sources say that they did consider the possibility that Jamel had harmed Sage. It would also potentially line up with Eric's story that he shared via email that he just strolled away and kept walking as a group came upon them.
- [55:21]
B
Yeah, true.
- [55:22]
C
But in 2017, a lead detective on the case admitted Jamel had moved away, possibly out of state. And after that, they stopped investigating him. The evidence against Eric just seemed so much stronger to them. Not that they were doing much to find him though, either.
- [55:41]
B
By January of 2013, Sage had been missing for almost two months. And now Sage's family was publicly at war with the Charlottesville police over what they saw as a lack of effort in this case. They held vigils and rallies, hoping that the public pressure would convince police to ask for more help. The Smiths wanted detectives to bring the Virginia State Police for a larger scale search and to contact the FBI to help find Eric. Meanwhile, the police said the family's efforts were actually getting in the way of the investigation. The longest serving detective on the case actually accused Sage's supporters of leading Fuck the police chants out of vigil, which he says, quote, didn't sit right with a lot of people. So, no, the Charlottesville Police Department never brought in the Virginia State Police or the FBI. But the protests and vigils might have spurred someone else into action.
- [56:33]
C
In February 2013, a woman named Monica Williams reached out to police with a tip. Monica said that she had ran into Sage at the Wild Wings Cafe in Charlottesville around 7pm on the night of her disappearance, making that sighting our ninth clue. That cafe shared a building with the Amtrak station, and Monica claimed to have known Sage for a few years and said they spoke briefly that night. According to Monica, Sage said that she was waiting for someone, but didn't say who or give any further details about them. When police tried to objectively confirm Monica's tip, they learned that the Wild Wings Cafe didn't have any surveillance video. Apparently, the only camera anywhere in the area was a traffic monitoring camera that didn't record. And none of the other customers there on November 20th remembered seeing sage specifically, although some did vaguely recall seeing a trans woman in the restaurant. But even unconfirmed, Monica's tip put police back on Eric's trail.
- [57:35]
B
Detectives filed for a search warrant in March of 2013, four months after Sage's disappearance, looking to access Eric's phone records, bank accounts, and known email accounts. At this point, Eric was still occasionally emailing Esther, but he always sent them from new Yahoo accounts, which he would then abandon after just one email. Whatever the police learned from Eric's phone, bank and email records, it didn't seem to advance the investigation. And they haven't shared any of those takeaways with the public. And after that, nothing really happened in this case. For a while, it wasn't officially marked as cold, but police weren't really doing much. Despite continued pressure from Sage's friends, family and supporters, police kept asking the public for tips on Eric's location. But that seemed to be the only lead that they were still following. Which is why it came as such a shock to Sage's family when on November 16, 2015, police announced Eric might be innocent. After all, the Smiths weren't given a heads up before this announcement, which came just four days before the third anniversary of Sage's disappearance. Police said that they based their reassessment of Eric's role in this case on cell tower data, text messages, and the belief that Eric had no way to dispose of a body.
- [58:53]
C
No way to dispose of a body. I mean, we see in case after case, people who do these heinous things will find a way. And you didn't search the hotel. You didn't search that dumpster. Yeah, there's so many places you haven't even begun to search. And dogs picked up stages sent near a pond.
- [59:12]
B
Yeah, right. I know. I'm also like, were they maybe saying this? Because it seems like Eric disappeared after Dean named him on Facebook and he freaked out and he left.
- [59:23]
C
That's like, yeah, that's what police are connecting that to.
- [59:25]
B
Maybe the police are like, oh, well, if we come out and say that he's innocent, maybe he'll just come back and we'll get him that way. Like, I'm trying to think of, like, the whole picture because it is just such a weird thing to come out all of a sudden be like, yeah, we relooked at the cell phone data and we like, think you didn't have anything to do with it, but at
- [59:40]
C
least start communicating with the family. And I know, so sad relationship is very strained, but at least, like, give them a heads up that you're making this big announcement. Well, right before the anniversary, when they
- [59:51]
B
tell the family, it ends up on Facebook. So, you know, maybe, you know, it's.
- [59:56]
C
It's so tough.
- [59:57]
B
Hard to know because they aren't super transparent about this case in general, so it's hard to know exactly why they were doing stuff. They also released some of Sage's texts with Eric on the night Sage disappeared, including the by, you stood me up text. Now, Sage's family was deeply disappointed that the local police had released Sage's private texts without even notifying them or getting their consent. And Dean pointed out that a criminal could text by, you stood me up to someone before harming them just to cover their tracks. Also very reasonable to think if police were using that as bait to bring him back to Virginia, they would have been disappointed, because it doesn't seem like Eric came back after that at all. And by that point, the police chief who had been in charge at the time of Sage's disappearance had stepped down. And in 2016, a new chief took over the Charlottesville Police Department. Sage's family hoped that this would lead to a reset and more effort towards finding Sage. Instead, all they got was one meeting with the new chief and a bunch of unanswered phone calls. But in March of 2017, seven months after that meeting, the Smiths found out through the media that Sage's case had been reclassified as a homicide investigation.
- [61:10]
C
But, yeah, family finding out through the media.
- [61:14]
B
Okay, it's so sad. It's so like getting that alert on
- [61:18]
C
your phone after they've been calling and calling and calling and calling and calling for any update, any updates, any transparency, and then you release our daughter's private texts to the news, but aren't telling us anything. And it's like.
- [61:31]
B
It's just.
- [61:32]
C
You couldn't just have communicated like, hey, we're reclassifying this case. It should help other resources. It should. It opens doors to our investigation.
- [61:40]
B
Now, I know.
- [61:41]
C
We're. We're so sorry.
- [61:43]
B
Even if you're scared that the family will post it on Facebook, just calling them right afterwards to explain, like, hey, you may maybe saw this. Like, this is why we're doing what we're doing.
- [61:52]
C
You know, it's going out to the media.
- [61:53]
B
Yeah. Like, just tell them. If it's going out to the media, just tell them.
- [61:56]
C
Yeah.
- [61:57]
B
I just don't get it. The Smiths hoped that this meant that there were new developments in the case. But again, this turned out to be a tactical decision on the police's part. The police reclassified the case so they could serve search warrants for more of Sage's cell phone and bank records, which also, I feel like we've been kind of bringing up since the beginning that if you reclassified it as a homicide, you'd have access to so many more investigative tools. And now they've waited so much time to be able to do that. And once this new chief took over, the Charlottesville Police Department went back to calling Eric a critical person of interest, just one notch down from being a suspect. And thankfully, time did bring more attention publicly to Sage's story. And I wonder, too, I just thought about this as we were talking about it, but remember in 2016, there was that big, like, white supremacist rally in Charlottesville.
- [62:52]
C
Yeah.
- [62:52]
B
So I wonder, too, if after that there was so much pressure on the community to start taking, like, crimes against people of color seriously and that kind of, like, reinvigorated this case.
- [63:02]
C
Yeah, you wonder. I. I did watch a. An interview with the. One of the detectives, Mooney, and he kind of chalked this all being botched up to the fact that they were so unfamiliar with the trans community. That was like.
- [63:19]
B
So you don't even try what?
- [63:20]
C
That was like, their thing.
- [63:22]
B
Yeah. That's such a weird. They're so unfamiliar. I don't know. I don't buy it.
- [63:28]
C
But he did, in this interview, say, I like, I have little notes here that I took when I watched these interviews. Yeah. He said, basically didn't have a lot of experience with the transgender community as it was very new. Felt that it was likely targeted, though, and foul play was involved.
- [63:40]
B
Yeah, right.
- [63:41]
C
I.
- [63:41]
B
You look in a dumpster the next day. Like, you have to have some familiarity if you know that that's typically the outcome of crimes like this. Like, that's why I don't buy it.
- [63:50]
C
Which is it?
- [63:51]
B
I know it's so. It's just frustrating. Sage's case appeared on the Discovery show, disappeared in 2018 with the most thorough reporting on her disappearance so far. But that didn't shake any useful tips loose on either Sage or Eric's location. And sadly, in 2019, Ms. Cookie passed away at the age of 60, and she never got answers about her grandchild's disappearance in her life. In 2019, seven years after Sage's disappearance, the police convinced Eric's mother to officially file a missing persons report for him. There was hope that putting Eric into a national database might lead to a sighting. But nothing materialized after that. And that's really where the case stood for the next six years until the police got their biggest break yet. This episode is brought to you by Instacart. I have a four month old at home, which means I don't leave the house unless I absolutely have to. Going to the grocery store is a really big deal for me these days, which is why I love love Instacart so much.
- [64:59]
C
Grocery shopping. I always forget things, I get overwhelmed, I have decision paralysis or I shop hungry and then I get way too much. Which is why I love to use Instacart. Keep me out of the store. I can sit at home reading my book instead.
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B
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C
And if you know you're going to be short on time the next day, you can order what you need in the morning and get delivery in as fast as 30 minutes. So you can keep whatever plans you have without adding a grocery run to the mix.
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- [65:51]
A
Zootopia 2 has come home to Disney Plus. Let's go get ready for a new case.
- [65:56]
C
We're going to crack this case and prepare for the greatest partners of all time.
- [65:59]
B
New friends you are Gary the Snake and your last name the Snake Dream
- [66:05]
C
Team in new habitats.
- [66:07]
B
Zootopia has a secret reptile population.
- [66:11]
C
You can watch the record breaking phenomenon at home.
- [66:13]
A
You're clearly working at Zootopia 2.
- [66:17]
C
Now available on Disney Plus. Rated PG. November 20, 2025 was the 13th anniversary of Sage's disappearance. Sage would have been about to turn 32 that day the Charlottesville police held a press conference. Their announcement is our 10th and final clue. They had found Eric McFadden living in Los Angeles, California. After 13 years, the 34 year old Eric had attempted to legally change his name to an alias, Shiloh Mathis, which had sent an alert to the Charlottesville pd. So they traveled to la where he had applied for that name change and made contact. Detectives said that they interviewed Eric for about an hour and gained valuable information. However, it was not shared publicly. There's a quote we have from the press conference, quote we did get information. I'm not going to release that at this point because again, it's still a very fluid investigation and we have to follow up on a lot of that information from the Interview. When you go back and look at the case that has gone on for this long, you have to go back and re. Interview individuals, identify evidence, forensics, a lot of stuff that was looked at back then because there's new technology that is out there now, new forensic techniques that are out there that weren't maybe 13 years ago. It is a lot of work. We have a detective specifically assigned to this case, end quote.
- [67:43]
B
Which is interesting because they specifically bring up the new forensic techniques and new technology. But I'm curious if there's something that they're like referencing, like specifically they can
- [67:53]
C
do with this case, but what forensics do we have?
- [67:55]
B
Because there's no, there's like, not even her body. So there's no like DNA on that body to be like, oh, who.
- [68:01]
C
There's no.
- [68:02]
B
Yeah.
- [68:02]
C
What have they found?
- [68:03]
B
There's.
- [68:03]
C
Yeah, right, we're right, you didn't. There's no mention of hotel and DNA swabs from the hotel.
- [68:07]
B
I know, but that's why I'm like, do they have something that they just haven't shared publicly? And that's why they're hinting at like, oh, this new technology might help us.
- [68:15]
C
But then why not the expeditious search for Eric? Yeah.
- [68:18]
B
Which is confusing.
- [68:19]
C
Why not the bring in FBI?
- [68:21]
B
Why like, yeah, I know, I'm like, I know.
- [68:24]
C
I'm like, wait, what?
- [68:25]
B
Yeah, yeah. Well, they also, they did such a bad job at the beginning. So even now, if this new, new regime change cares about this case, they're so like, they're just coming in with like nothing to go on.
- [68:38]
C
There's nothing.
- [68:39]
B
And they have to find Eric. And like, they can't arrest Eric, so he doesn't even really have to talk to them. Like, they're lucky they even got an hour with him if he was like volunteering to speak to them.
- [68:50]
C
Yeah. And at this point, they said Eric was still not a suspect, just a person of interest and had not been arrested. Police said that they were confident that they could track down Eric again if they needed to, and that he was still in la. They also asked the public to report any interactions they had with Eric under any of his aliases that he had been using over the past 13 years. But here's the thing about this big break. I mean, Eric was hiding in plain sight. His digital footprint was so large, it's hard to understand why it took an actual name change to locate him. He had a Facebook account where he posted photographs under an alias. The account showed that he had been in the LA area since about 2020, under an alias, Bohemian Shy. Which online sleuths linked to Eric. There are multiple WordPress blogs full of poetry about his loneliness and past mistakes. He had multiple Twitter X accounts, which have now been deleted but are partially archived online. He had an Instagram account, which is now deleted, but was linked in a lot of his tweets. And his Facebook page for his photography got a flurry of quote, where is Sage comments after his alias was publicly revealed. Also, allegedly, I found this. Crazy that people were able to track this down and potentially link this. Allegedly. There is a video, a graphic video that was posted to X which shows him having sex with a Latina trans woman.
- [70:21]
B
Wait, where did you find that?
- [70:23]
C
Our researcher found that.
- [70:24]
B
Oh, here. I.
- [70:25]
C
Do you have an ex account? I'm like, I do. Oh, my God.
- [70:27]
B
What? Am I gonna see something? I can't do this for my work. Don't shut it off. Oh, my God.
- [70:33]
C
Is it actually posted? Oh, my God.
- [70:35]
B
Yeah, it's, like, super graphic.
- [70:37]
C
Is it him?
- [70:38]
B
You can't see a face. It's just two bodies.
- [70:43]
C
Well, our researcher found that Shout out
- [70:47]
B
Yelena for if you guys are ever like, they don't do a lot of research for these episodes.
- [70:52]
C
No, we. Yelling is out there. She's in the YouTube comments. She responds to, like, you guys if you questions about the research and stuff. So shout out Yelena for finding that one.
- [71:01]
B
Wow. Yeah, she really gets her hands dirty in the research.
- [71:05]
A
No.
- [71:05]
B
Oh, my God.
- [71:06]
C
But allegedly. Allegedly kin didn't see a face just now when she clicked, so it's allegedly.
- [71:12]
B
Collect myself for a second. Sorry.
- [71:14]
C
Brief pause. Okay. Okay, We've recovered here.
- [71:19]
B
Yeah, we're collecting ourselves. Okay.
- [71:20]
C
The good part about all of this is years of Eric's post history offered plenty of data for detectives to sort through and locate people who may have interacted with him in real life. If Eric harmed Sage, maybe finding someone he talked to about the case could be a key to finally closing it. And if he is innocent, then that might clear him for good and maybe force the police to move on to other people of interest.
- [71:46]
B
And that kind of brings us to today. So, as of this recording, Sage's loved ones are still hoping to hear exactly what the police were able to get out of Eric. Both Shakira and Aubrey still post about Sage on Facebook. And Sage's family won't ever be the same. They've lost sage. They've lost Ms. Cookie. And Ms. Cookie actually had 19 grandchildren and one great grandchild the time of her passing. And so her Legacy will continue to grow. And we also, you know, found in the research that Sage had an aunt who was murdered as well. Tanita Larice. Nita Smith was one of two women whose bodies were discovered behind a Howard Johnson motel in Harrisonburg, Virginia in late November 2021. The other victim was Beth Redmond, who was 54, who was found alongside Nita Smith, who was 39 at the time of Charlottesville in an open lot in a commercial district. The man who committed this crime was eventually charged and convicted. And it was Anthony Eugene Robinson who was dubbed the Shopping Cart Killer because he transported the bodies in shopping carts after killing them in his motel room. So it was a serial killer.
- [72:55]
C
I know. So just sentencing is actually happening next week.
- [72:58]
B
No way. Unreal tragedy.
- [73:01]
C
Unreal. Just such a manifestation for one family to go through.
- [73:05]
B
It's too much for one family to go through.
- [73:07]
C
Too much.
- [73:08]
B
According to Shakira, Ms. Cookie predicted that the truth about Sage's disappearance would come out actually after she was gone, after she had passed away. And, you know, we're hoping that she was right, that maybe that is a prophecy that will be fulfilled. Maybe the family will get some answers soon.
- [73:23]
C
I know, and it could come from a show like this. I mean, there's podcasts out there that are literally solving true crime cases. And Sage's friends continue to post recaps of her case and where it's at on Reddit. They're asking for more eyes on this case. So, you know, get the word out, guys, share about this case, especially if you live in the area or even if you're in LA and potentially have crossed paths with Eric. I mean, it, it could come from a community effort.
- [73:52]
B
Yeah. If there is a chance that he wasn't involved, it still seems like from that email, maybe, you know, he did witness something and he will come forward and just have that honest conversation with the police on what was witnessed. I don't know if that's true. My gut says that it's not. But in the case that it, it is true and it was like maybe someone who was involved with the fight the night before or like, I know that there is like this online long standing theory that an unidentified serial killer has been operating along Route 29 near Charlottesville, Virginia since 1996. After the 1996 disappearance of 25 year old Alicia Showalter Reynolds just outside of Charlottesville, multiple women reported attempted abductions by the same man. So, you know, maybe there was something like that that was witnessed.
- [74:38]
C
Yeah, just. Yeah, I know there's at least Nine disappearances and murders that have been potentially attributed to what is now being dubbed the Route 29 Stalker. But they're still saying that there's no proof that a serial killer really exists.
- [74:52]
B
Yeah, it's wild how many of those there are around the country. Like, there's that. The one in Austin, Texas. There's like, the smiley face killer where the community is saying, we think something is happening. Like, we feel like some. Someone is attacking us.
- [75:05]
C
I mean, go, go beach.
- [75:06]
B
Yeah, exactly. Like, and then the police keep saying, like, there's no.
- [75:08]
C
There's nothing.
- [75:09]
B
There's serial killers here.
- [75:10]
C
And I get you don't want to frighten a community, but, like, it also helps awareness and knowledge, helps protect the community.
- [75:16]
B
Yeah.
- [75:17]
C
So that's talked about a lot in regards to Sage and her disappearance.
- [75:21]
B
Yeah, they're potentially being a serial killer as of this recording, too. The police are still asking for help from the community. They need more evidence in order to move forward with this case. Sage's loved ones really need the community to think hard about whether or not they may have interacted with Eric McFadden at any point. According to the Charlottesville Police, he may have lived in Baltimore, Joppa, Maryland, Lake City, South Carolina, Columbia, South Carolina, Atlanta, Georgia, New York City, or Rochester, New York. His known aliases included Shiloh Mathis, Frank Hargrave, and Miles Bakari. But if you think you might have known Eric under any name, please reach out to the Charlottesville police. Here's a quote about what they need. If you have had any Contact with Eric McFadden since 2012, if you knew him, lived with him, worked with him, or were in any form of a relationship with him, we need to hear from you. You may remain anonymous. Even something you believe is insignificant may be a significant piece of information that helps move this case to a resolution. And you can reach out to the Charlottesville Police Department at 434-970-3373, or email cpdtipsharlottesville.gov with any information that you're able to share. Currently, There is a $20,000 reward for any tips that help solve this case. And one last note before we end. So the date that sage disappeared, that's November 20th, also happens to be Transgender Day of Remembrance. And to learn more about how to join a vigil on the next Transgender Day of Remembrance, or to share a story of a trans loved one who has passed away, you can go to transremembrance.org and if you're a trans, gender, expansive, or questioning person in need of Crisis support. You can reach the Trans Lifeline at 877-565-8860 in the US or 877-330-6366 in Canada. This is not a 24 hour hotline, but you can find their current hours and other resources for people needing help after hours@translifeline.org and with that, we want to highlight a missing person this week.
- [77:22]
C
The missing person we want to highlight this week is Taylor Casey. Taylor Casey went missing on June 20, 2024. She was then 41 and was reported missing in the Bahamas. According to her family, she was there attending a yoga retreat at the Savannah Ashram Yoga Retreat on Paradise island in Nassau. The Royal Bahamas Police Force Chief Superintendent Skippings said that Casey's cell phone was found under 50ft of water in the ocean, but her other belongings were still at the retreat. On June 22, a dog did pick up a scent from a tent at the retreat site and tracked it to the water, but the trail ended there. Casey was well known in Chicago's LGBTQ community. Casey is described as having a light brown complexion, unknown height, and a slim build. Family is concerned that there hasn't been a proper investigation done. All of Casey's belongings were found at the resort, and police found Casey's phone because a family member pinged it and told them where to locate it. As of the latest update, authorities are offering a $10,000 reward for information leading to her whereabouts. If you have any information, please contact the Royal Bahamas Police or you can contact Crime Stoppers at 328-TIPS. That's 328-8477 and that's all we have for this episode.
- [78:37]
B
Now we turn it over to you guys. Your thoughts, your theories, feedback, what you think. All of that is really valuable to us. So let us know in the comments, wherever you listen.
- [78:45]
C
Absolutely. If there's any other botched you had or sus behavior. Yeah, we ended up with eight botched today and four sus.
- [78:53]
B
Yeah.
- [78:54]
C
And again, if there's any other things you want us to track on an episode coming up, let us know.
- [78:58]
B
Let us know at Crime House.
- [78:59]
C
We really value your support. So again, share all your thoughts on social media and remember to rate, review and subscribe. Let's get to 200,200k by next year.
- [79:09]
B
Amazing. I love it.
- [79:10]
C
Thank you guys again for watching, for all your support on this show. Your comments, everywhere, we, we see them and we really appreciate you guys chiming in. Especially we're, we're gathering our list of experts. We now have a dog a couple dog experts.
- [79:22]
B
Oh yeah, I saw people in the comments talking about like working with canine units.
- [79:27]
C
Yeah, maybe we'll go job shadow them a day.
- [79:30]
B
I would love that.
- [79:30]
C
But thank you all. Until next time. Bye bye. This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome? That's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50 page restoration block. Or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks.
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C
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