SERIAL KILLER: Amy Archer-Gilligan

Summary

Clues with Morgan Abshur and Kaylin Moore Episode Summary: SERIAL KILLER: Amy Archer-Gilligan Release Date: July 16, 2025

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Introduction

In this gripping episode of Clues, hosts Morgan Abshur and Kaylin Moore delve into the dark and twisted story of Amy Archer-Gilligan, a serial killer who operated a nursing home in Windsor, Connecticut, in the early 1900s. Through meticulous research and compelling storytelling, the duo unravels how Amy maintained a facade of a trustworthy caregiver while orchestrating the deaths of numerous residents for financial gain.

Background on Amy Archer-Gilligan

Amy Archer-Gilligan, a 34-year-old woman, along with her 58-year-old husband James Archer, settled in the small agricultural town of Windsor, Connecticut, in 1907. Amidst the rapid societal changes of the early 20th century, with families migrating to cities, there was a burgeoning need for care facilities for the elderly and infirm.

Kaylin Moore introduces Amy's venture:

"Amy Archer Gilligan cultivated this really saintly reputation when she opened a nursing home in Windsor, Connecticut. She provided shelter, love, and care for those in need." (01:30)

Establishment of the Archer Home

Seeing an opportunity, Amy and James saved $4,500 (approximately $150,000 today) to purchase a colonial-style home, establishing the Archer Home for Elderly People and Chronic Invalids. The home quickly gained popularity due to Amy's pious demeanor and the well-maintained facility, accommodating about 20 residents with a substantial waiting list.

Morgan Abshur describes the initial success:

"Now you're basically living there and you maybe have like a roommate when you show up... Amy and James are making pretty good money on this business." (11:58)

Early Signs and Suspicions

Despite the home's popularity, subtle red flags began to surface. Amy falsely advertised herself as a registered nurse, a claim that went unchecked due to the era's limited verification methods. Initially, residents and their families were satisfied, as reflected in glowing letters home praising the care provided.

The Role of Carlin Gosley

Carlin Gosley, Amy and James's 22-year-old neighbor and a freelance reporter for the Hartford Courant, became pivotal in uncovering the truth. His personal connection—being Morgan's great-grandfather—adds a unique dimension to the investigation.

Kaylin Moore shares a personal touch:

"Carlin is my great grandfather." (25:16)

The Investigation Unfolds

The turning point came in July 1909 when Lucy Durand, a resident who had paid the $1,000 lifetime fee, reported severe neglect and abuse. The Connecticut Humane Society's investigation found nothing amiss, and Lucy subsequently disappeared without a trace.

Carlin, suspicious of the high mortality rate at the Archer Home, began scrutinizing death certificates. By June 1911, he noticed a troubling pattern: 24 deaths over four years in a facility meant to care for 20 individuals, with causes often vaguely attributed to ailments like kidney disease and heart problems.

Carlin's realization:

"There is something up there." (32:24)

Accusations and Escalation

Further investigation revealed that the Archer Home had been purchasing large quantities of arsenic from W.H. Mason's Drugstore. Notably, Dr. Howard King, the in-house physician, was also a frequent purchaser, suggesting his complicity.

As deaths continued unabated, residents like Franklin Andrews and Charles Smith began falling victim to sudden illnesses and mysterious deaths shortly after arsenic purchases. Despite mounting evidence, local authorities were initially reluctant to act due to Amy's esteemed reputation and financial donations to the church.

Climax of the Investigation

Persistence paid off when Emily, Charles Smith's sister, confronted Amy over her brother's unexplained illness and subsequent death. Armed with a letter revealing Amy's plea for financial assistance, Emily approached the Hartford Courant, prompting Carlin to escalate the investigation.

Kaylin Moore highlights a crucial moment:

"Clifton Sherman decides it's time to turn things over to the superintendent of the Connecticut State Police, Thomas Egan, to do this." (73:01)

The Trial and Aftermath

In May 1916, after exhuming Franklin Andrews' body, authorities confirmed arsenic poisoning through the Marsh test. Multiple exhumations later solidified the case against Amy, leading to her arrest in 1916. Initially convicted of first-degree murder for Franklin Andrews' death and sentenced to death, Amy successfully appealed her case by pleading insanity, largely due to her extensive morphine use.

She was re-sentenced to life in prison and remained incarcerated until her death in 1962 at the age of 89.

Concluding Insights

The case of Amy Archer-Gilligan underscores the vulnerabilities of the elderly and the potential for abuse in care facilities, themes that resonate even today. It also highlights the critical role of vigilant community members and persistent investigative efforts in uncovering hidden atrocities.

Morgan Abshur reflects:

"She kept upping the ante... She really did enjoy the thrill of it." (87:22)

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Notable Quotes

• Kaylin Moore (01:30):

  "Amy Archer Gilligan cultivated this really saintly reputation when she opened a nursing home in Windsor, Connecticut. She provided shelter, love, and care for those in need."

• Morgan Abshur (11:58):

  "Now you're basically living there and you maybe have like a roommate when you show up... Amy and James are making pretty good money on this business."

• Kaylin Moore (25:16):

  "Carlin is my great grandfather."

• Carlin Gosley (32:24):

  "There is something up there."

• Morgan Abshur (87:22):

  "She kept upping the ante... She really did enjoy the thrill of it."

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Conclusion

The chilling narrative of Amy Archer-Gilligan serves as a historical lesson on the dangers of unchecked authority and the importance of transparency in caregiving institutions. Morgan and Kaylin's detailed exploration not only brings to light a lesser-known serial killer but also emphasizes the timeless relevance of vigilance and integrity in preventing such tragedies.

Transcript

[Kaylin Moore]

Hi there, it's Vanessa Richardson. Crime House is your go to destination for the most gripping true crime shows. On my show, Killer Minds. Join me and forensic psychologist Dr. Tristan Engels for two new episodes as we dive into the twisted story of the doctor Death serial killer Michael Swango. Craving more deep dives into the minds of the world's most dangerous killers. Follow Killer Minds on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Amazon music or wherever you listen.

[Morgan Abshur]

This is Crime House.

[Kaylin Moore]

We are going to turn back the clock a little bit.

[Morgan Abshur]

Don't do this at home. Don't get any wonky ideas, people. Investigation is just in your blood.

[Kaylin Moore]

I know, it really is.

[Morgan Abshur]

You're built for this. Hello, friends. Welcome back to another episode of Clues. I'm your host, Morgan Abshur.

[Kaylin Moore]

And I'm Kaylin Moore. And it's great to see you all here again today.

[Morgan Abshur]

One of your hosts, I should say. There's two of us. Oh, you didn't add. You're. You're.

[Kaylin Moore]

I didn't even catch that. You said I'm your host.

[Morgan Abshur]

Yeah.

[Kaylin Moore]

And I'm chop liver. Kaylin Moore.

[Morgan Abshur]

And I'm your host, Kaylin Moore. Come on. I'm excited for this one. Today.

[Kaylin Moore]

Yeah. Today we are going to turn back the clock a little bit and tell the story of a serial killer that descended on a small Connecticut town in the early 1900s. Amy Archer Gilligan cultivated this really saintly reputation when she opened a nursing home in Windsor, Connecticut. She provided shelter, love and care for those in need. Or at least it seemed that way. Morgan, we're going to get into it. The cracks in Amy's image started to show when her residence began began dying at an alarming rate.

[Morgan Abshur]

It took one sharp eyed reporter to pull back the curtain. And what he uncovered was straight out of a horror movie. He exposed a trail of suspicious deaths, hidden motives, and a killer hiding in plain sight. And the most interesting part of all is that one of us, obviously not me today, has a personal connection to him.

[Kaylin Moore]

Morgan, it was your dad. That's the reveal.

[Morgan Abshur]

But I'm really excited for you to tell us all this story.

[Kaylin Moore]

More on the case and the clues that defined it. Right after this quick break.

[Morgan Abshur]

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[Morgan Abshur]

Whoa.

[Kaylin Moore]

When did I get here? What do you mean?

[Morgan Abshur]

I swear it was just moments ago that I accepted a great offer from Carvana online. I must have time traveled to the future.

[Kaylin Moore]

It was just moments ago. We do same day pickup. Here's your check for that great offer. It is the future.

[Morgan Abshur]

It's.

[Kaylin Moore]

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[Morgan Abshur]

It's all good.

[Kaylin Moore]

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[Morgan Abshur]

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[Kaylin Moore]

This is gonna be an interesting one because we're trying something kind of new where Morgan doesn't know this story at all. I'm just. I'm gonna read you a story.

[Morgan Abshur]

I'm going in blind, which is, like, not like anything I've ever done before, like, for my show.

[Kaylin Moore]

I know.

[Morgan Abshur]

I find every Reddit story, basically, you.

[Kaylin Moore]

Are always very prepped. Everything.

[Morgan Abshur]

I feel very uncomfortable right now. I'm not meant to not prepare.

[Kaylin Moore]

This is gonna be a good one. And so we're gonna dive into a story today that is. It is like the incident from my hometown. And I feel like everyone has, like, the incident from their hometown or the. The Dateline episode that was made about their town. And so before we even dive into this story, I want everyone to comment wherever they're listening. Like, what was that dark thing that happened in your town that wound up on Dateline or national news?

[Morgan Abshur]

Do.

[Kaylin Moore]

Do you have a story like that?

[Morgan Abshur]

There's one that's, like, close to where I'm from. It' I'm from Duluth, Minnesota, and there's a town like 15, 20 minutes away from my house in Hermantown in Moose Lake. And it's the case about Katie Poyer, who went missing from a gas station she worked at. And so, like, my mom was kind of the same age as her, like, a little older. Had, like, recently had my brother and, like, was living close to Moose Lake. So, like, my mom had gone to that store all the time. And so that case, like, really hit home for her.

[Kaylin Moore]

Was it one of those things where, like, all the locals maybe kind of knew what happened?

[Morgan Abshur]

Minnesota. Yeah. Minnesota in general, I would say, is, like, very small town vibes, like the whole state. It's like it's small world energy. So there's Katie Poyer's case. There's a case about Jacob Wetterling who went missing while riding his bike. Like you kind of know all the Minnesota cases.

[Kaylin Moore]

Like Jacob Butterling case is really famous.

[Morgan Abshur]

Yeah.

[Kaylin Moore]

Because they just, they solved it only.

[Morgan Abshur]

A few years ago and like 27 years after his disappearance.

[Kaylin Moore]

Yeah, that's a really intense one.

[Morgan Abshur]

Yeah.

[Kaylin Moore]

That's scary to have happen in your own backyard. I know one time I asked that to someone because I'm always curious what it is for people like the thing that happened in their town. And this girl told me that Elizabeth Smart was found on her property after she went missing. Apparently like she owned this, like her parents owned this big piece of land and like in the back was the house where Elizabeth Smart was being held and no one knew.

[Morgan Abshur]

Oh my gosh.

[Kaylin Moore]

Which I can't even imagine.

[Morgan Abshur]

I have a family friend who. She is amazing. She's from France, moved to LA and has like worked as a hairdresser in LA in Beverly Hills for years. And she actually cut the Menendez brothers hair like shortly after the murders. And she would cut their hair at their house.

[Kaylin Moore]

Oh, like after the murders had taken place in the house would come over.

[Morgan Abshur]

Yeah. And so she like I remember her telling me a story about like one of the paintings like literally had blood on it still and.

[Kaylin Moore]

Yeah, it was still crime scene.

[Morgan Abshur]

Yeah. She was like in there and she's.

[Kaylin Moore]

Like, ah, that is really interesting.

[Morgan Abshur]

Yeah. Like I was like, wow, that's quite the, the thing. But I have seen a lot of comments from you guys too. Being like I lived next to so and so and all of this. So I'm, I'm very curious to see like what you guys comment and what case it is from your hometown. That's, that's a really.

[Kaylin Moore]

I know. Maybe we'll pick some of the most shocking ones and read them in an episode once we like get the list from everyone. So our story today takes place in Windsor, Connecticut in the early 1900s, just a few miles north of Hartford. I don't know if you're familiar with Connecticut at all. If you've ever flown into the airport, it's like right there.

[Morgan Abshur]

Okay.

[Kaylin Moore]

So at the time, Windsor was this really quiet agricultural town. It had a population of about 3,000 people. And that's where a 34 year old woman named Amy Duggan eventually settled in 1907 with her 58 year old husband, James Archer. At the time, the world was changing very quickly in the early 1900s. It was like a brand new world every couple years. A lot of people were flocking to bigger cities to find work rather than staying closer to their hometowns and taking care of people in their own family. Which meant that nursing homes were kind of just starting to become a thing. People were like leaving home, they weren't taking care of their parents anymore. They were like flocking to the cities. So there was kind of this epidemic of like elderly people that were. Had no one to take care of them. And so Amy, kind of being a business minded woman, really saw an opportunity in that.

[Morgan Abshur]

I found this so interesting too, cuz like we haven't gotten there in terms of like the wars yet. But after, you know, World War I and World War II, therapy and nursing homes became a big thing. But I was like before this, as you said, like there wasn't really a need for them. There was more of that traditional, like you live in a multi generational home and the family takes care of, of each other.

[Kaylin Moore]

Yeah, right.

[Morgan Abshur]

So I looked into this a bit more and you would assume like nursing home, you think these people have a lot of care needs. But in the early 20th century, like that was not the case. Like there was actually a lot of people still living in these homes that were super healthy, active. They would go about their day and like just come back to the home at night to stay.

[Kaylin Moore]

Yeah.

[Morgan Abshur]

It seems more like a group residential living facility than like a true nursing home.

[Kaylin Moore]

And they weren't always that old either because. Right. They were sometimes like 30s to 50s. Right. Yeah. Which like we would be so geriatric.

[Morgan Abshur]

I'm literally like, I'm 31 right now, you guys. I could go live in a nursing home back then, like I could do it.

[Kaylin Moore]

Yeah.

[Morgan Abshur]

So we just gotta like set the scene a little bit too. Like this is not your standard nursing home. This is more of like I'm, it's giving like Cocoa Beach, Florida. Like just like senior living.

[Kaylin Moore]

Yeah, like a 55 plus community kind of.

[Morgan Abshur]

Which is where I want to end up eventually.

[Kaylin Moore]

Yeah.

[Morgan Abshur]

My colada in hand.

[Kaylin Moore]

My grandma said that when she moved to a 55 plus community, she had never drank so much in her entire life. Grandma, it's just a constant party.

[Morgan Abshur]

I mean the bingo. Okay, I'm digressing. But yes, it seemed like people really came and went as they please and really were just living their lives and wanted that community aspect.

[Kaylin Moore]

Yes, absolutely. And Amy and James kind of come up with the idea of starting their own nursing home because there's none in Windsor at the time. And it's like we talked about a really new concept. So they save up 4, $500, which today would be $150,000, and they buy this colonial style home, and they call it the Archer Home for Elderly People and Chronic Invalids, which the name does not age. But I wanted to show you a picture of the home. We'll have it up on the screen too, and we'll have images on our socials at Clues podcast. But, okay, this is what the house looks like. Can you describe it for the people who can't see?

[Morgan Abshur]

Okay, so it looks like a traditional craftsman kind of style. Not as fancy, not as much molding, but beautiful wraparound porch, picket fence on the front. Looks very welcoming.

[Kaylin Moore]

I think it looks a little Bates Motel. So it's interesting hearing you think it looks like very welcoming.

[Morgan Abshur]

See, I love a good Renault. I see the potential with it.

[Kaylin Moore]

Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Morgan Abshur]

You're, you know, it's got good bones.

[Kaylin Moore]

Hands on person. So Amy has this great reputation around town, like, immediately when she moves to Windsor. And that is a big selling point for her opening this place. She is this, like, devout Christian. She always wears these modest dresses. People in Windsor at the time are also very religious, so they like that she comes across as, like, very pious. She even walks around town with, like a Bible tucked under her arm. And so people start calling her Sister Amy. She's not a nun, but everyone, like, addresses her as Sister Amy whenever they see her. At the time, people loved a well behaved woman. This is the early 1900s, and that's very much like what Amy came across as. So when the Archer home opens its doors in 1907, people really start flocking to it. Remember, this is like, we talked about a time where there's like, not options for, like, your ailing, older loved ones. And so people immediately start touring this place to see if, like, this is where their parents could live. And once they see the home, like, everyone's raving about how clean it is, how organized the inside is. The kitchen is always stocked, the bedding is always, like, fresh. It smells great. It's laundered. And not to mention Sister Amy herself is the primary caretaker of the whole facility, which makes people feel, like, really safe and comfortable. And before long, really immediately, the Archer home is filled to capacity. And it has, like this super long waiting list for people to join. It only has room for about 20 residents at a time. I mean, you saw a picture of the house.

[Morgan Abshur]

There's not a huge house, you guys.

[Kaylin Moore]

No. And even then, it's like there's multiple people in the rooms for 20 people to, to fit in there, which is kind of normal for like some older elderly facilities. Now you're basically. It's kind of like a dorm. You, you live there and you maybe have like a roommate when you show up. And even though there's only 20 people that can stay in there at a time, Amy and James are making pretty good money on this business. They charge anywhere from seven to $25 a week for a room and there's. That includes meals and medical care if needed. And they offer another option, the choice of paying a one time thousand dollars lifetime fee that will cover the patient until they pass away. And that's $34,000 today, which we were just talking about. People were maybe in their 30s. Yeah, you could live. If you're 35, you could live another 40 years.

[Morgan Abshur]

Yeah, that's a pretty. I'm terrible at math, but it seems like a pretty good buyout.

[Kaylin Moore]

It's a really good rate. Yeah, it's like a ridiculously good rate. And so right off the bat, which people don't necessarily notice at first, but there is something kind of questionable about the house and that's that Amy is advertising herself as a registered nurse who can tend to your family members every need. But she's not a registered nurse. She's lying about this. But at the time, people are so eager to have their ailing parents taken care of that like nobody bothers to check. I don't even know if people would know how to check back then. You'd have to go look through records.

[Morgan Abshur]

1900S.

[Kaylin Moore]

Yeah, you'd have to go to town hall or like an association. So nobody checks this out.

[Morgan Abshur]

Yeah.

[Kaylin Moore]

And it doesn't necessarily matter right away because all the tenants are telling their family members how happy they are with the house. They tell their friends and family that they feel super well cared for. They're like writing letters back home at the time. And we have like the letters that say they were happy. And it's largely thanks to Amy and James's in house physician that also works there, this guy named Dr. Howard King. He is the real medical expert in the home. He doesn't live there full time, but he's always on call in case there's any emergency, which is why people felt confident leaving their family members in the hands of the Archers and Dr. King.

[Morgan Abshur]

And he is a real doctor.

[Kaylin Moore]

He is a real doctor. Yeah. So this is. I didn't mention this at the beginning, but this is one of those cases too where like a Lot of the information we have on this case comes from the book Devil's Rooming House, which was, like, written by this author, M. William Phelps. And it's like a whole overview of the case. Okay. But it also is. When I was in high school, I went to, like, our town's historical society.

[Morgan Abshur]

My gosh, of course you did.

[Kaylin Moore]

I did all the research myself, so I have all the, like, primary sources on this.

[Morgan Abshur]

Let's go.

[Kaylin Moore]

Which I love a good, like, historical society.

[Morgan Abshur]

Yeah.

[Kaylin Moore]

Afternoon.

[Morgan Abshur]

It's on my list on my next trip home, so I'm excited to go in.

[Kaylin Moore]

Yeah, yeah. Support your local historical society. It's really important. Basically, everyone was feeling, like, really comfortable and good with the situation until July of 1909. And that year, there was a woman named Lucy Durand who had been living in the Archer home. She had been there since it opened, so, like, two years at that point. She paid the thousand dollar lifetime fee. She plans on living there for the rest of her life, but she quickly regrets that decision. And we don't have a lot of details about this, but we know at some point that month, Lucy calls the Connecticut Humane Society. And back then, this was, like, largely just a place that investigated child abuse claims.

[Morgan Abshur]

Okay.

[Kaylin Moore]

But she doesn't know really who else to call. She's panicking. She feels like she needs help. They're the only people she can think of that would help her in this situation. But when she finally gets in contact with them, she tells them that the house is actually incredibly unsanitary, that it's kind of a front, that this place is, like, really put together and nice. She says it's not safe for people to be living in, especially not vulnerable people. Like, some of the people in the house are sick and older. And not only that, but she tells them that Amy is physically abusing her elder abuse. And people from the Humane Society come to investigate this because it's a really serious claim. But when they get there, they don't find anything that backs up Lucy's claim. They walk in, they see this nice older woman clutching a Bible. She's wearing this conservative dress. She's like five two, by the way. She's really tiny. So they're like, yeah, this woman's not physically abusing you. Which we know in, like, elder abuse claims that, like, that's not small.

[Morgan Abshur]

People can still do things. Yeah, yeah.

[Kaylin Moore]

That you're just oftentimes as an older person, like, not able to protect yourself. Yeah.

[Morgan Abshur]

You're more frail, more vulnerable.

[Kaylin Moore]

But they end up walking away from the house just saying, oh, it could use better ventilation. We'll put that in our report.

[Morgan Abshur]

Okay.

[Kaylin Moore]

Yeah. That's the only thing that they see. Amy, like, cleaned everything up.

[Morgan Abshur]

Yeah. It's not hard to fake clean. I call it fake cleaning. You shove everything in one room and it looks nice, but it's not.

[Kaylin Moore]

We've all done it.

[Morgan Abshur]

My house is currently fake clean.

[Kaylin Moore]

And they eventually leave. And a few days later, Lucy disappears.

[Morgan Abshur]

Oh, my God.

[Kaylin Moore]

She completely vanishes. No one has any idea where she goes. It's like one day the residents all woke up, and she's just not there anymore. Days pass. Other residents, they don't see her. They don't hear from her at all. This is also a time, too, where, like, I mean, I talk about people wanting to leave their ailing parents somewhere that, like, will take care of them. A lot of people were just, like, dumping their parents and, like, leaving and never contacting them ever again. So a lot of these people also didn't necessarily have advocates. And I don't think Lucy had anyone that even recognized that she had gone missing.

[Morgan Abshur]

Damn.

[Kaylin Moore]

So the residents finally ask Amy and James what happened because they're a little confused. And Amy basically says that, oh, Lucy had a mental health episode and she needed more serious care than we can offer here at the Archer home. So we sent her away. She basically says, like, we put her on the train at midnight, which really doesn't make any sense to the. To the residents. And that's also why she wasn't able to say goodbye, because she had to leave in the middle of the night. And so it was like this quick thing. She didn't say bye to anyone, but, like, trust me, she's in a better place now. And because Amy is running a business, she has this open bed to fill now, and she's able to fill it immediately with this woman named Theresa McClintock. Teresa gets to the Amy Archer home sometime in 1909, just a few months after the incident with Lucy. So she's coming in. She has no idea what's going on. And it's kind of the same thing where, like, Teresa and her daughter tour the place. It looks great. It's a great option for an elderly single woman who, in the early 1900s, has essentially no options. But Teresa is not there for very long when she starts writing letters to her daughter Nara. And Nara, when she gets these letters, she basically, like, opens them and cannot believe what she's reading.

[Morgan Abshur]

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[Morgan Abshur]

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[Kaylin Moore]

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[Morgan Abshur]

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[Kaylin Moore]

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[Morgan Abshur]

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[Kaylin Moore]

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[Morgan Abshur]

And I just want to flex a study that proves Babel works. There's studies from Yale, Michigan State and other leading universities that have even found that Babel for 15 hours is equivalent to a full college semester.

[Kaylin Moore]

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[Morgan Abshur]

Oh, my God.

[Kaylin Moore]

No one ever helps her wash her clothes. Like, she's just kind of like sitting in her own filth with, like, unable to be helped and like working in ot. Like, I imagine you have to help people a lot. Like some of the patients.

[Morgan Abshur]

Yeah. Depending on what their needs are, for sure. I mean, it's, it's clear too, as this woman was going into this place, daughter is very involved, making sure her mom's going to get the care she needs. Like, it was probably advertised, like, we'll help her get to the bathroom.

[Kaylin Moore]

Yeah.

[Morgan Abshur]

Daily bathing and like, so to then have this experience.

[Kaylin Moore]

This is crazy that you're basically just like, left to your own devices. No, she says that she's actually forced to relieve herself in basically a chamber pot that's in the corner of the room because there's not a private bathroom accessible to her. Yeah, but when Narcissa reads these letters, she doesn't necessarily think that she has to go save her mother. She actually thinks that her mom is maybe being ungrateful. I know. Which is like, a lot of these people just wanted to leave their parents somewhere and not have to worry about it. So she's, she's worried that her mom is just like, maybe making a big deal and being very, like, particular about stuff.

[Morgan Abshur]

Well, and I honestly do think too, like, I'm not sure how talked about elder abuse was even at this time, but like, even now. So, like, there is a really hard time prosecuting elder abuse. Yeah, it's like, you know, we have a big shortage of nurses in a lot of our skilled nursing facilities across the U.S. so, like, someone sitting in a soiled bed, like that still happens today.

[Kaylin Moore]

Absolutely.

[Morgan Abshur]

This is really, this is really bad.

[Kaylin Moore]

I feel like this is maybe the start of it getting worse because typically you were being taken care of by your family members and now you're being taken care of by strangers. Strangers who are in a facility where they don't really know you that well. And like, the beds are like opening and people are coming and going. And so that's basically what starts happening to Theresa. But Narquissa writes her this letter back and she reminds her mom that the Archer home is run by one of the most trustworthy, well regarded women in the area. And then Teresa ends up begging Narquissa to come visit and see things for herself. She's like, once you get here, you'll see what I'm talking about, and then you'll believe me. And Narcissa only lives like 10 miles away, so she decides to make the trip. And when she gets there, she walks into the house, and the first thing she notices is the house is freezing. It is like it's the end of the year at this point, too, and there's absolutely no way to heat this house. Then she goes upstairs to her mom's room, and she sees that her mom is not only being neglected, she is, like, confined to her bed. She, like, actual straps to her arms and legs holding her to the bed frame somehow.

[Morgan Abshur]

How are they? I'm like, thank God they were mailing her letters. I'm surprised they even mailed her letters for her.

[Kaylin Moore]

Well, yeah, we'll maybe get into that in a little bit because the letters were coming in and out. And then that eventually becomes a problem. Narkissa at that point is like, I have to confront Amy about this. And she kind of confronts Amy in a way where she's like, I don't want to be a bother. Sorry to approach you like this, but is there maybe something you could do about my mother? It doesn't seem like she's very comfortable. And she reports that Amy comes off as, like, really cold and detached during this conversation. She's not the warm, sisterly woman that she was portraying herself as. Clearly, she does not seem to really care that her mom is not having a good time. And so Narcissus Narcissa starts wondering if her mom is maybe telling the truth. And if she is, she has to get her out of this facility. So it takes some planning. But after a few months, Narcissa does get her mom relocated. And more importantly, this is a big deal at the time. She sues Amy and James for $5,000 for maltreatment.

[Morgan Abshur]

Wow.

[Kaylin Moore]

And that is $175,000 about give or take today. And because of this, the story hits the local papers, and that's when a guy named Carlin Gosley, he's Amy and James's neighbor. He's like 22 years old, works at the paper, is like a low level position. And so he. He sees like the. The article come into the paper, and it really, like an alarm bell goes off in his head because he's like, oh, my God, these are my neighbors. Like, they just opened this home. And I will add here, Carlin is my great grandfather. Hey, there he is. That is the personal connection to it. So he basically is the first person to flag it at the newspaper and be like, something is Going on.

[Morgan Abshur]

Yeah.

[Kaylin Moore]

So a little bit more on Carl. At the time, he was working full time as an insurance agent. He also had this side gig as a freelance reporter for the Hartford Courant, the same paper that was reporting the lawsuit against Amy. He mainly writes obituaries. That's kind of like the. He's like the lowest level, so that's what they tell him to do. They're like, you'll just write the obituaries. Which, like, I guess back in the day, family members didn't write obituaries. It was like the paper would write.

[Morgan Abshur]

The obituary, which is so interesting.

[Kaylin Moore]

Yeah.

[Morgan Abshur]

And honestly, I kind of like it because that is like, when you've lost someone, that's an added burden that you have to do, and you're just like, oh, my God.

[Kaylin Moore]

Absolutely. It's also. Yeah. So that was his job, was he would write these obituaries. And he also served as treasurer of this thing called the Windsor Rogue Detecting Society, which is, quote, a quasi detective agency that investigates burglary, suspicious fires, and the occasional murder investigation.

[Morgan Abshur]

Is just in your blood.

[Kaylin Moore]

I know. It really is.

[Morgan Abshur]

You're built for this.

[Kaylin Moore]

Yeah. So anyone who listens to heartstarts pounding knows that I use the term detecting society all the time. It's like what I call people who belong to the Patreon and Apple.

[Morgan Abshur]

I need a. I need a.

[Kaylin Moore]

We have, like, stickers and stuff coming, but that's where it comes from. Like, the idea that, like, back in the day, there was just kind of this ragtag group of people before there were even cops in the area that would, like, go around solving crimes, which.

[Morgan Abshur]

There weren't really police in this area at the time, Right.

[Kaylin Moore]

No. No.

[Morgan Abshur]

Okay. Because I feel like you guys, again, this is like 1909. Like, what did police organizations even look like back then?

[Kaylin Moore]

Small towns, too. Like, Windsor was a really small town.

[Morgan Abshur]

3,000 people.

[Kaylin Moore]

Yeah. They didn't have, like, a force like a police that was for the city.

[Morgan Abshur]

Sheriff, A constable.

[Kaylin Moore]

I don't even think there was a constable.

[Morgan Abshur]

Okay.

[Kaylin Moore]

I don't even think we had a sheriff.

[Morgan Abshur]

Okay.

[Kaylin Moore]

I think it was this ragtag group of guys.

[Morgan Abshur]

Great great grandpa.

[Kaylin Moore]

Yeah. How many grades?

[Morgan Abshur]

Two.

[Kaylin Moore]

Just great. Just one.

[Morgan Abshur]

Okay. Your great grandpa running the detective agency.

[Kaylin Moore]

Yeah. Really? At least, like, the treasury side. But yeah, there were. It is interesting to think of a time before there were police officers and detectives. So another thing about Carl is he's actually known Amy and James for quite some time, basically since they moved into Windsor. And he has always had this really high opinion of Them he's also like a church going man. And so he sees them at church all the time. He really. That's like something again, very important to people at the time. So it's hard for him. When he reads this lawsuit, he's kind of like, whoa. Like either this is not real and they're accusing these like wonderful people in town of this, or everything I know about them is wrong. And I have to kind of start like figuring out if something's going on. The fact too that like the paper he writes for decides to run this article. He's like, okay, there's definitely something to it if like the Hartford Current is going to run this article. So for the next year or so, he kind of like keeps that in the back of his mind. Like when he sees Amy around town, he's like, what's going on in your house? Like, what is happening inside of there?

[Morgan Abshur]

He's side eyeing her a little bit.

[Kaylin Moore]

Side eyeing her in the church pews. He's giving her that look like, what are you up to, you crazy lady? And Carl doesn't really see or hear anything else suspicious about the home. That's really like. It kind of goes dark after that. Like the. The patients aren't really complaining as much anymore other than the fact that at one point the archers and Theresa McClintock's family settled their suit out of court. But one day In February of 1910, he's working at the paper on obituary duty when all of a sudden he gets this death notice across his desk that kind of makes him do a double take. It's for Amy's husband, James. He passed away suddenly at the age of 61. And the cause of death is listed as something called Bright's disease, which was this catch all term they used to use for kidney disease. And it was a pretty common cause of death back then. But it was like the suddenness of James's death that starts really raising red flags for Carlin. Because people who die of kidney disease. You don't die overnight from kidney disease.

[Morgan Abshur]

No, there's a lot of symptoms you kind of observe too.

[Kaylin Moore]

And it was pretty well known around town. Like James was a healthy guy. He was fixing stuff at the house all the time. He was always out in the yard. Like nothing about him ever struck anyone as like, oh, he's sick.

[Morgan Abshur]

Yeah. And only 61. Like obviously people didn't live as long back then, but like 61 is still pretty young for a relatively healthy guy.

[Kaylin Moore]

A healthy guy, exactly. And so Carl thinks back to that first article that he read about the lawsuit. He has always kind of had these suspicions about the home in the back of his mind. And now he's really wondering is something going on there? Like what if the arch home really is that unsanitary? Like maybe James died of something else or maybe like he did have kidney disease and whatever. He started thinking that the house is maybe like really dirty on the inside or that like just something is going on. He starts basically snooping around. And that's how we get to our very first clue in this case.

[Morgan Abshur]

Let's go.

[Kaylin Moore]

The death certificates. Remember, Carl writes obituaries. Part of his job is reading death certificates all day. Which if you've ever look at old timey death certificates, they're like really funny. Just they have all the information and like the cause of death is always something like so random that doesn't exist today. And he starts fact checking pretty important information that's listed on the death certificates. So he thinks maybe the ones from the Archer home are gonna reveal something about what goes on there behind closed doors. In June of 1911, Carl goes to the town hall and he just starts flipping through the documents that have come out of the the Archer home in that time. All the death certificates, everything. And before long he sees kind of a strange pattern in these. There's about two dozen death certificates from the time Amy's boarding house opened four years ago. They're running a nursing home. That makes sense. But even still, that seems like a high number of deaths in such a short time.

[Morgan Abshur]

24 in four years.

[Kaylin Moore]

24 and four years, yeah.

[Morgan Abshur]

That sounds like a lot.

[Kaylin Moore]

Out of only 20 beds.

[Morgan Abshur]

And again these people could be healthy 30s to 50 year olds living in these nurses nursing homes.

[Kaylin Moore]

Right. And also like Carl reads enough death certificates, he kind of has like a feel for how often old people die. Like it's like this weird thing where you kind of get a feel for how frequently death certificates come in.

[Morgan Abshur]

Yeah.

[Kaylin Moore]

And so even he's like, that's a lot like for one place to have essentially an entire class of people die and turn over in just four years is like, feels really intense.

[Morgan Abshur]

Yeah.

[Kaylin Moore]

So he starts comparing how all the people died. And everyone's cause of death is really vague. And it's listed as something like kidney disease, heart problems, a lot of stomach problems. But what's really worrisome is it seems like everyone died very suddenly on death certificates. You could sometimes talk about the symptoms leading up to the death. And most of these death certificates didn't have anything that indicated these people were suffering leading up to their death. It was like one day they just died from kidney disease. One day they died from a heart thing. One day they died from a stomachache. Just like really strange quick deaths.

[Morgan Abshur]

Oh my gosh. They probably also all happen to be the ones that paid the thousand dollar lifetime fee.

[Kaylin Moore]

Right? Because then you're locked in.

[Morgan Abshur]

Because then you're locked in.

[Kaylin Moore]

Yes.

[Morgan Abshur]

Oh my gosh. Okay.

[Kaylin Moore]

And Carl starts wondering if the Archer home is actually hiding something. Especially since each death certificate is signed by Amy's in House physician, Dr. King. Carl basically decides at this time he's not going to bring this to the public until he's sure that it's actually evidence. It would be a huge deal to kind of like lodge this accusation against someone in town without having like, hard evidence. So he starts by pulling up death certificates from similar boarding homes in the area. And while the Archer home houses a lot more people than the other places do, he basically confirms that they are dying at a much higher rate. And that's when Carl knows that something is up. So he notifies the editor of the paper that he works at, Clifton Sherman. He tells him about his suspicions. But Sherman encourages Carl to keep this to himself. He basically tells him, like, hey, like, you can poke around, like maybe, you know, like look into this, but do not tell anyone. We're. We're not gonna go there.

[Morgan Abshur]

What?

[Kaylin Moore]

Yeah, they. He says that they're not gonna write anything like at the, the paper about this because they don't want to jeopardize the paper's integrity and maybe falsely accuse someone of doing something that they're not doing.

[Morgan Abshur]

Yeah, I gotta build that case a.

[Kaylin Moore]

Little bit more to build the case. And cases were harder to build back then. And plus again, Amy's this huge staple in the community. They don't want to go after an innocent woman. They would look horrible. Also at this time, she starts donating a lot of money to the church. And the church is kind of like a political figure in town.

[Morgan Abshur]

Oh yeah.

[Kaylin Moore]

As it was like in this era.

[Morgan Abshur]

Yeah, they don't want to bite the. That feeds them.

[Kaylin Moore]

Yeah, exactly. Keeping the secret is not easy though, especially because Carl and Amy are neighbors. He sees her all the time. They're in church together every Sunday. He can like, walk out of his house and like, see her home across the street. And Carl realizes, though, maybe he can actually use this to his advantage. He's like us, he's nosy. And one day, so one day when he bumps into Amy, he just starts conversing with her. He's having a little chat with her and he asks her how the Archer home's been doing since James died. And Amy tells him something that really raises a red flag.

[Morgan Abshur]

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[Kaylin Moore]

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[Morgan Abshur]

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[Kaylin Moore]

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[Morgan Abshur]

And it's so I use the vanilla flavor and it's so good. It's like a little dessert.

[Kaylin Moore]

And it's very smooth. I've had a lot of powders that are just chalky or not kachava almost like unbaked batter. It's just a very straight and I'm not a big fan, but kachava I've never had that issue with.

[Morgan Abshur]

I love it.

[Kaylin Moore]

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[Morgan Abshur]

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[Kaylin Moore]

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[Morgan Abshur]

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[Kaylin Moore]

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[Morgan Abshur]

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[Kaylin Moore]

Learn more and join using our Link. The first thousand people get 100 credit towards their membership. Visit www.functionhealth.com clues or use code CLUES100@ Sign up to own your health. She says everything's been running smoothly except for one problem they've been having and that's that they've got bedbugs. And that kind of leads us to clue number two, which is that according to Amy, she says she's had bedbugs for a while, especially because there's new people always moving in.

[Morgan Abshur]

Yeah.

[Kaylin Moore]

But lately it's been exceptionally bad. But fortunately, some of her healthier residents have been running errands for her and she's been sending them to W.H. mason's Drugstore to buy the cure for bed bugs at the time, which was arsenic.

[Morgan Abshur]

Yeah. Because arsenic was often used for pesticides, which is like. Yeah. Crazy. I think some of the old stuff, like what we used a lead for and like it's just like, I think we just didn't know what we were doing.

[Kaylin Moore]

There's still cyanide in some ant treatments. At least there used. There was like an. Up until recently.

[Morgan Abshur]

Yeah.

[Kaylin Moore]

Like really heavy duty poisons.

[Morgan Abshur]

Okay. So they were mixing it with what, some water and just painting it on their bed frames. Like to kill these bugs.

[Kaylin Moore]

That's what it seems like it was. Yeah. It was like, okay. Mixture of water. They would paint it on like bed frames and door frames and just wherever the bugs were.

[Morgan Abshur]

Yeah.

[Kaylin Moore]

And then the bugs would eat it and they would die.

[Morgan Abshur]

Probably not aware of all the health risks that were coming along with this. Arsenic.

[Kaylin Moore]

Yeah. That you're also maybe like touching it and ingesting it. And this can cause like a bunch of symptoms. If it does cross contaminate with your food or if you're accidentally touching it with your hands and then putting your hands in your mouth. Like, fatigue, nausea, stomach cramps, intense vomiting. Maybe like kidney and stomach disease might. Some would say. And if someone's been poisoned badly enough, it can act very fast. So when Carlin hears this, he immediately flags it, because arsenic poisoning does seem a lot like the illnesses that were listed on the Archer death certificates.

[Morgan Abshur]

Yeah. And he's going through them all, and.

[Kaylin Moore]

He'S going through them all, and he's like, okay, this is very strange.

[Morgan Abshur]

Yeah. No, she's clearly telling him this to cover her tracks.

[Kaylin Moore]

Yeah. Acute abdominal pain, people getting sick very fast, people dying really quickly. So after this, Carlin actually goes over to the WH Mason's drugstore, and once he's there, he asks the pharmacist to see the black book, which. Have you ever heard about this?

[Morgan Abshur]

No.

[Kaylin Moore]

So back in the day, anywhere that sold poison, which was like, so many places, you could just buy poison everywhere. Or like cocaine, you could just buy all the everything.

[Morgan Abshur]

Cocaine used to be in Coca Cola.

[Kaylin Moore]

Yeah.

[Morgan Abshur]

It's just. It's so. It was the Wild west back then.

[Kaylin Moore]

It was absolutely insane. But to try to curb it, to try to make sure people weren't buying just, like, a ton of coke to do recreationally, you would have to sign a black book.

[Morgan Abshur]

Okay.

[Kaylin Moore]

When you. And you would write your name, the date, how much you bought, and that way they could kind of keep track. I don't think anyone really cared. Or they were like, if you're buying, we're selling. But it. They at least had this record if anything happened. That's what Carl wants to see, because this ledger goes back a really long time. They've been keeping records forever at this place. And when Carl flips through the pages, he discovers that the Archer home has been purchasing a ton of arsenic pretty much from the time the home opened.

[Morgan Abshur]

Oh, my God.

[Kaylin Moore]

Pretty much immediately.

[Morgan Abshur]

Day one.

[Kaylin Moore]

Day one. So Carl starts writing down notes about, like, how much was bought for the Archer home, the dates of all the purchases, and as he looks closer at each entry, he realizes that, like, most of the arsenic that was sold at this location was going to Amy and her residence, but also someone else was buying a lot of the arsenic.

[Morgan Abshur]

Oh, I have a hunch. Is it King?

[Kaylin Moore]

Dr. King? No, come on, Dr. King. The guy signing all the death certificates was like. Like the second most common name on the ledger, so he's in on it, too. So it starts making the deaths seem a lot more complicated. And Carl is now really trying to figure out what to do. Because mind you, he's also like 23 years old and he's lowest level at the newspaper. So he's like, ah, I have all this information and my boss won't let me do anything with it.

[Morgan Abshur]

Yeah, he's just like sleuthing at this point.

[Kaylin Moore]

Yes, he's sleuthing. And now he has sort of evidence for a potential killing method, especially because on one occasion Amy purchased 2 ounces of arsenic, which.

[Morgan Abshur]

Okay, 2 ounces. Like for me, I'm like, it sounds like a lot, but like, how much do you actually need to kill someone?

[Kaylin Moore]

I looked into it a little bit. So on average it takes roughly.0035 ounces to kill a pretty healthy adult, which is like zero.

[Morgan Abshur]

I'm like, already? That's like nothing.

[Kaylin Moore]

That's like hundreds of people that you could kill with 2 ounces.

[Morgan Abshur]

That's insane math. Yeah, yeah, that's insane.

[Kaylin Moore]

It's a lot if you're. You can buy it in a couple different forms too. It seems like at the time they were buying it in powder form.

[Morgan Abshur]

So it's like the easiest to mix and stuff.

[Kaylin Moore]

Really. Not hard to mix into things.

[Morgan Abshur]

No, just drop it in a little water.

[Kaylin Moore]

It's tasteless, it's odorless, it is dissolvable. Yeah, you could put it in water.

[Morgan Abshur]

Don't try this. Don't do this at home. Don't get any wonky ideas, people.

[Kaylin Moore]

I'm gonna say something because it's no longer available, but did you. Do you remember when the Colorado dentist poisoned his wife with arsenic in 2023?

[Morgan Abshur]

I didn't hear about this. Yes. He, like, medical assistant is the one that discovered like, and was like, why is he ordering this?

[Kaylin Moore]

Yes, yes. So she caught it. She caught the cyanide in the office that he was ordering. Do you know where he purchased the arsenic that he bought to poison his wife?

[Morgan Abshur]

No, but I'm gonna assume some plant store or something weird.

[Kaylin Moore]

Amazon.com shut up. Jeff Bezos's Amazon. And when the story broke, I couldn't believe it. So I was like, surely you can't buy that. This has to be wrong. And I went on Amazon and you could buy it.

[Morgan Abshur]

I wonder if you can still. I looked it up. Don't get any ideas.

[Kaylin Moore]

It seems like they've taken it off because I did check a little bit more recently because I was like, how long is this going to be up for? But yeah, you could just buy it was in rock form and he like.

[Morgan Abshur]

Graded it, pestled it or whatever.

[Kaylin Moore]

Yeah, like Old timey, like, made his own little concoction out of it and then just would dump it in her smoothies.

[Morgan Abshur]

Crazy.

[Kaylin Moore]

Really, really crazy. But the same, same kind of thing where the amount that he was ordering because it was this big rock form was way more than you would ever need to kill someone. But even then, it took multiple doses for her to get sick enough to die.

[Morgan Abshur]

Wow.

[Kaylin Moore]

So things get even weirder later on when Carlin's at home comparing his notes from the black book to the notes that he has on the death certificates. He starts creating this timeline. He basically has this, like, cork board and he's like doing the timeline and the string and all of this in his basement.

[Morgan Abshur]

And.

[Kaylin Moore]

And in this timeline, he discovers that just two days after that big 2 ounce arsenic purchase, a man died in the Archer home. And we don't have his name, I don't have his. I wasn't able to find his exact death certificate. But we know that, like, Carl made a note of this. The details of this death raise major flags for Carl, though, because apparently out of nowhere it says on this death certificate that the man started vomiting profusely and then dropped out. And eventually Carl notices a pattern. For years, people have been dying at the Archer home. Just a few days or the day after someone bought arsenic. Someone related to the Archer home bought arsenic. And to Carl, it just doesn't seem like a coincidence. Windsor, remember at the time, is a very small town. People start hearing about Carl's visit to W.H. mason's Drugstore, and rumors about what he was doing there, looking at the little black book, start circulating around town. Suddenly people are catching on to the fact that Carl is eyeing the Archer home and maybe is like, suspicious of her for something.

[Morgan Abshur]

Stop gossiping, people. He lives across the street.

[Kaylin Moore]

He's a reporter. Amy herself actually hears about this. Word gets back to Amy because people tell her everything and she's furious. She tries to get ahead of the story, actually. She goes on this, like, PR campaign for herself and she's like playing victim around town at church, on her errands. She tells people out in the street that she's this widow who's struggling to get by and she is doing this nursing home because she cares so much about her community and she's just a woman business owner who's like, trying to get by. She also has a daughter at this time, too. She's a young daughter, so she's like, really playing up that card. She can't understand why there's a, quote, witch hunt against her. Her Pity campaign starts working. A lot of people in town start sympathizing with her, including this guy named Franklin Andrews. So Franklin is 59 years old. Again, not very old. He's worked on a farm his whole life, but now he's starting to develop arthritis, and he can't really work on the farm as much as he could anymore. Despite being in pain from the arthritis, though, he's in, like, great shape. He can do basic chores on his own. He can run his own errands. He doesn't really have any other health issues. He just needs a little bit of help, help with mobility. While he's been living with his family for some time, he wants them to have their own space. He want. He doesn't want to feel like a burden of his family. So he hears about the Archer home, and he thinks that it could be a great fit for him, especially because they. Amy on this, like, PR campaign was basically saying she, like, needs help around the house. And he's like, I can do chores. Like, maybe we can strike some sort of deal. So In September of 1912, he moves in with Amy and he pays her the thousand, thousand dollars lifetime fee, which, mind you, he's 59 years old at the time.

[Morgan Abshur]

You could, in theory, live 30 years. 30 years, 40 years, who knows which.

[Kaylin Moore]

You'Re basically paying a thousand dollars for? 30 years of care is crazy.

[Morgan Abshur]

33 a year.

[Kaylin Moore]

$33 a year.

[Morgan Abshur]

A year. Divide that by 365 days.

[Kaylin Moore]

This is that business mindset that Morgan.

[Morgan Abshur]

Has nine cents a day.

[Kaylin Moore]

That's crazy. And, like, obviously in inflation, it's more than that, because what Was it, like, $34,000 today? But still you're paying a thousand dollars for room and board.

[Morgan Abshur]

No, that's insane.

[Kaylin Moore]

It's bad business is what it is.

[Morgan Abshur]

Yeah, she just wanted the quick cash, and then she was taking people out.

[Kaylin Moore]

She maybe needed the upfront. Cash is, like, a big part of it. But since Franklin is healthy and offering to help her out, she actually cuts him a deal on this. This already deal. She's like, I can actually do you better. If you choose to move out at any point, I'll actually pay you back a portion of what you paid me. And so he takes this deal. Great. Maybe he'll be there for a few years, help out around the house, and when he leaves, she'll give him a couple hundred bucks back. So a month later, In October of 1912, another man who kind of has a similar situation to Franklin moves in. And his name is Charles Smith. Like, Franklin, Charles is Also in good health. Even though he's much older, he's in his mid-80s. He moves into the Archer home, and at first it seems like he's paying the weekly fee, but he enjoys it so much he can see himself living there until he passes away. And in the spring of 1913, he actually tells Amy that he would rather pay the thousand dollar lifetime fee. And Amy's really excited when she hears this.

[Morgan Abshur]

I'm sure she is.

[Kaylin Moore]

Yeah. Cause she needs the money. She needs a thousand bucks. But she tells Charles something else, and it's something that she hasn't really told any of the other residents in the past. And she says that if he wants to live at the Archer home for the rest of his life, she's going to need an additional payment. But she doesn't really explain why. She just says that she's going to need a little bit more money. And she asks for an additional $1,300. So more than double what he was going to pay initially. So this deal is going to cost Charles $2,300. She's basically asking for another $40,000.

[Morgan Abshur]

Yeah, it's a bit of a bait and switch too.

[Kaylin Moore]

Yeah. Yes, $40,000 by today's money. So, like, that's a lot to have to scrounge together to give to someone.

[Morgan Abshur]

Yeah. And a kind of an odd amount like the 1300 versus, like just another thousand.

[Kaylin Moore]

Seems like she had bills in her mind that she knew she had to pay.

[Morgan Abshur]

Something's up.

[Kaylin Moore]

But he is like, surprisingly fine with this. And his sister Emily is not fine with it, though he doesn't tell her about this additional fee. He just like goes ahead and pays it. But Emily's like, watching his bank account. She has like a little bit of control over his finances, and she notices this huge withdrawal from his bank account. And so she goes to the Archer home and asks Charles where his money is going. And he tells her and she's furious. So she goes and she confronts Amy. She thinks that her brother is being taken advantage of. But at that point, the money's already been spent, so there's nothing that she can do about it right now except for kind of complain about it around town and see if anyone will listen to her.

[Morgan Abshur]

Yeah, go venture.

[Kaylin Moore]

Which also means, though, that the Charles situation starts spreading around town. And of course, Carl catches wind of this, and he realizes that he might have found a motive, but he needs to dig a little bit more into Amy's finances. So he contacts his brother who works for the town government. They're kind of, like, all in cahoots on stuff. They're, like, all working around town so they're able to, like, ask each other stuff. He asks his brother to pull some records, and one night his brother comes to him and is like, you're not going to believe what I found.

[Morgan Abshur]

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[Kaylin Moore]

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[Morgan Abshur]

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[Kaylin Moore]

The Nordstrom app on WhatsApp. No one can see or hear your personal messages. Whether it's a voice call message or sending a password to WhatsApp, it's all just this. So whether you're sharing the streaming password.

[Morgan Abshur]

In the family chat that we're trading.

[Kaylin Moore]

Those late night voice messages that could basically become a podcast, your personal messages.

[Morgan Abshur]

Stay between you, your friends and your family.

[Kaylin Moore]

No one else, not even us. WhatsApp message privately with everyone. And that brings us to clue number four, the unpaid bills. James had about $5,000 in unpaid bills when he died, and that's $175,000 today. That is, like, medical school debt. Yeah, that's a lot of money.

[Morgan Abshur]

About my grad school debt, actually. Yeah.

[Kaylin Moore]

Yeah, it's intense.

[Morgan Abshur]

Yeah, it's a lot of money.

[Kaylin Moore]

And if you're not able to pay your grad school debt, who do? They don't just say, like, oh, sorry, okay. We tried.

[Morgan Abshur]

No, no, they're gonna, like, call. Justin Nelnet called me on my way here today, actually.

[Kaylin Moore]

Oh, my gosh.

[Morgan Abshur]

Yeah.

[Kaylin Moore]

No, they hunt you down for that money. And so now that, like, James is dead, but that doesn't change anything. So now Amy's just on the hook for this money.

[Morgan Abshur]

Yeah.

[Kaylin Moore]

And according to all of these related documents, she's been avoiding paying them for two years, ever since James died.

[Morgan Abshur]

So what is she doing with all the money from the people she's already killed, though?

[Kaylin Moore]

Great question. I know that there is still to this day, like, a stained glass window in the church that she dedicated to James. So she. I. I don't know if she's, like, just buying frivolous stuff or like, she's donating it to the church or what. She's not paying these bills.

[Morgan Abshur]

Okay.

[Kaylin Moore]

And I'm sure, you know, when you don't pay bills, they Call and they call and they call and they call and they keep coming. So the debt collectors have literally been knocking on her door. And that's when things start to click for Carl, that Amy is in extreme debt. She's clearly draining her tenant's finances and perhaps killing off her tenants who've paid the thousand dollars for a lifetime fee to get them out sooner and basically to get the next person in. Yeah, you called it. You figured it out.

[Morgan Abshur]

I mean, you're a business minded woman. Well, I'm just like, you're not gonna take out the person that's paying you 25 a day because then they're gone. Or honestly, I wouldn't put a pastor to take out some of them too. So then she had a bed for someone she could get a thousand from.

[Kaylin Moore]

Right. It's like when landlords like try to get you out so they can raise the rent too. It's like, well, if I. But the, the only way to get a person. You can't evict these people.

[Morgan Abshur]

No.

[Kaylin Moore]

So the only way to get them out is to kill them. But the thing is, this is still just a theory. It makes a ton of sense. It totally adds up. It, I feel like by today's standards would be something that you could fully arrest someone for. But at the time there was just like not much that he could do about it. So he need like Carl needed to collect hard proof basically. And since he's the only one working on this investigation, his newspaper is not interested in helping him with this. The progress is very slow. But eventually someone besides Carl starts to notice that the death rate at Amy's home is unusually high. And it's Franklin Andrews, one of the residents who's lived at the house for about a year now because is he's with it. He's 60 years old at that point. And he has seen how in one year a home that holds 20 residents has had 18 of those residents die during that time.

[Morgan Abshur]

Okay, how are more people not getting on board with this? That something is off.

[Kaylin Moore]

The turnover is so crazy. Well, that was part of the thing too. So the train, if you like are in town, the train basically goes right behind Amy's house. House. So what they would do is when someone died back in the day, you could literally put postage on a body.

[Morgan Abshur]

What?

[Kaylin Moore]

So they would put postage on the body, stick it on the train and mail it to the coroner's office. Because there's this one horrible story about how one night a body came back because they didn't put enough postage on It. Oh my God. They're like, you need another stamp. We can't send it unless you have another stamp. But yeah, so they could, you could clear out bodies really quickly, but like, don't.

[Morgan Abshur]

I mean, Franklin's getting it. I mean, the guy's just got arthritis, so he's, you know, not, not any cognitive impairments. But it's like, doesn't anyone else look around like 18 in a year. Wow. Like there's a whole new resident field, basically. Like.

[Kaylin Moore]

Yeah.

[Morgan Abshur]

Even for some of the other ones that live there, wouldn't you be like, I need to get out of here? I think we're dropping like flies.

[Kaylin Moore]

Comes down to the fact that people's family just didn't care anymore. Like a lot of these people just didn't have family to notify.

[Morgan Abshur]

And then we have poor Teresa at the beginning who like she was early on and she was getting handcuffed, strapped to the bed, basically.

[Kaylin Moore]

Yeah.

[Morgan Abshur]

So, God, these poor people probably couldn't leave even if they wanted to, right?

[Kaylin Moore]

No, absolutely. I mean, that's like always the issue with elder abuse stuff too. Like a lot of people can't advocate for themselves.

[Morgan Abshur]

No.

[Kaylin Moore]

And then maybe she's also like specifically approving people to move in that are like in a position where they can't take care of themselves.

[Morgan Abshur]

I mean, absolutely could see that.

[Kaylin Moore]

And again, like, it's worth repeating. Like Franklin is like, it's not like these 18 people were sick and getting sicker and then slowly passed away. It's like these 18 people were completely fine and then one night they would like some, some people would like stand up after dinner, clutch their stomach, start vomiting and then like drop dead. Like people were dying like very violently and dramatically within the house. And every time it was like the same song and dance. Dr. King would come by, he would say, he would look at the body and say something like, kidney disease. Sign the death certificate. And then he would be on his way. But in the summer of 1913, Franklin's suspicions start to heighten even further when this 57 year old guy named Michael Gilligan comes by to fix some stuff around the house. Michael is divorced. He has adult children that are all grown up and living elsewhere. He becomes fast friends with Franklin and Charles, actually. But Michael gets more than just friends at the house because basically the moment he meets 40 year old Amy, they just hit it off. He's initially there to fix lights and like paint the house and stuff, but they start essentially like courting each other. And In November of 1913, they get married three months after their wedding. They're newlyweds at that point.

[Morgan Abshur]

Okay.

[Kaylin Moore]

Amy approaches Michael, and she slides this piece of paper in front of his face. And she's like, hey, can you just sign this for me? And he looks at it. It says last will and testament. It's like big gothic letters at the top. And she had gone up and written one for him. Also, mind you, he's 59 years old. He has adult children. He already has a will.

[Morgan Abshur]

Yeah.

[Kaylin Moore]

That's been, like, signed by a lawyer. But she drafts up this new one, and she puts it in front of him. And what's weird is, at the time, Michael is, like, very dizzy. Like, earlier that day, he started feeling super dizzy.

[Morgan Abshur]

Oh, yeah.

[Kaylin Moore]

So he's like, can we do this later? Like, I actually don't feel that good. No. And Amy is like, no, I actually think this is the perfect time. I think you should sign this. And so he signs it. He's probably just wanting to get to bed because he's, like, really starting to sweat.

[Morgan Abshur]

Wait, he signs it.

[Kaylin Moore]

He signs it.

[Morgan Abshur]

I leave everything to Amy.

[Kaylin Moore]

I don't even think he read it, but yes. No, he just wants to go to bed. Signs it. I mean, he has adult children. He signed everything to her. Like, nothing for his children, which I.

[Morgan Abshur]

Doubt he would have done. Like, what?

[Kaylin Moore]

I know. The next day, he wakes up, and he, like, still can't get his balance. Like, something is wrong. He's still lopsided as he's walking. He's trying to fix things around the house. Like, he does not feel well. And as the day goes on, he starts feeling really nauseous, really fatigued. So that next night, Amy, he's, like, really starting to suffer. She's like, let me get you something that'll help you. And she goes over, and she pours in this glass of whiskey. Back in the time, it had medicinal value. I mean, some people still use it medicinally, but basically, she gives him the whiskey. He drinks it. He's like, thank you. He goes to bed, and that entire night, he is tossing and turning. He's sweating. Residents can hear him, like, groaning and clutching his stomach, basically from his bedroom. Eventually, people were reporting that he was, like, vomiting profusely by the morning. And early the next morning, Michael is dead. And it's the same song and dance. Dr. King comes over to the house. Amy tells him about Michael's symptoms. It's so weird. He just was dizzy.

[Morgan Abshur]

Oh, my God.

[Kaylin Moore]

He's clutching his stomach. He's throwing up. And so they list on his death Certificate. Get this. Acute bilious attack, which basically means indigestion.

[Morgan Abshur]

Sure.

[Kaylin Moore]

Death by indigestion.

[Morgan Abshur]

Yeah.

[Kaylin Moore]

Which somehow was allowed to be written as like an actual on death certificates.

[Morgan Abshur]

This is so insane. Your great grandpa's gotta be going crazy at this point. Three months after the wedding, new husband's dead.

[Kaylin Moore]

Yeah. Because Carl hears about Michael's death. Right. I mean, he's the one that gets the death certificate to his office and has to write the obituary. And he's like, you're kidding me.

[Morgan Abshur]

No.

[Kaylin Moore]

So he, at this point, he's like, I have to kick this into high gear. Another husband died. We have to like this is. We have to get this investigation going. Like, people have to know. So he ends up going back to the town hall. He wants to look at some more death certificates. And he finds that in the last three years, 53 people have died at the house. Like it has ramped up.

[Morgan Abshur]

Yeah, a lot. Because she's gotten comfortable. She's getting away with it. She's got the town and all of its people in her pocket.

[Kaylin Moore]

Yes, exactly.

[Morgan Abshur]

Yeah.

[Kaylin Moore]

And so he's kind of like, okay, let me just double check again to make sure that the rise in deaths also correlates with arsenic purchases. He goes back to the drugstore. He knows that everyone in town is going to talk about it. He goes through the black book entries and he discovers that Amy had recently bought 10 more ounces of arsenic.

[Morgan Abshur]

Holy.

[Kaylin Moore]

We already talked about 2 ounces being enough for like 100 people.

[Morgan Abshur]

And all you need is point 00535 Reese. Whatever.

[Kaylin Moore]

Like insane. It's. It's enough to kill like a small army.

[Morgan Abshur]

She could have killed the whole town.

[Kaylin Moore]

The whole town, basically. She's clearly not killing bad bugs. I mean, that's goes without saying. But Carlin goes back to his editor, Clifton Sherman, and he has all these details. He has like receipts, timelines, everything. And it's been a few years. Carl's actually almost 30 at this point because like so much time has passed. No one's been taking this seriously. He has like a little bit more status at the paper. He's hoping that he can finally just start writing the story and like getting people involved in an investigation. But his editor, Clifton Sherman, tells him it's still not enough info.

[Morgan Abshur]

Oh, he's been paid.

[Kaylin Moore]

And it's starting to feel like, yeah, there's a bigger institution, there's a cover up happening. There's like maybe some sort of COVID up happening. And it's really around this time too, where the usually Healthy. Franklin Andrews also starts feeling sick.

[Morgan Abshur]

No, not Franklin.

[Kaylin Moore]

He had actually gone a long time without getting ill. But because I think he was, like, helping out around the house, he's, like, building fences and stuff. Over the last couple weeks, he's had a couple, like, dizzy spells where he'd get really tired and really dizzy and he'd have to stop what he was doing. He says it comes and it goes, and he thinks actually it's maybe a cold. And his friend Charles, the one that was conned out of $1300, actually starts coming down with the same thing. So Franklin's like, maybe we both got the same thing at the same time. The two wonder if something's going around. Well, Charles's sister Emily, the one who got into a fight with Amy over the money, wants to come and check on him. She hears that he's not doing very well, so she plans a visit to the Archer home. And on April 8, 1914, Emily's waiting for Charles in the home's drawing room. And when she sees Charles come down the stairs, she is in shock. He does not have a cold. He looks horrible. Like, dark circles under his eyes. Gaunt. Just, like, really looks like he's in rough condition. He can't even walk on his own. Two nurses are helping him come down the stairs. So Emily rushes to him and asks, like, what's happening? How did he get so sick so quickly? But Charles can't even really talk to her. He's that weak. Emily goes and confronts Amy. She's like, what is going on? Why did you not tell me my brother was this sick? And Amy just doesn't have any answers regarding Charles's health. She, like, dodges the questions. She's like, that's not my responsibility. Emily leaves that day, planning to get Charles out of the Archer home as soon as possible. But the next night, after Emily leaves, she gets word that Charles had passed away suddenly and his sleep. When she asks what happened to Charles, her brother, who had called her to tell her about the death, says that Amy claimed it was, quote, shock. She just kind of, like, pulled that out of nowhere. She caused a shock. He died from shock. And on Charles's death certificate, shock is not written down. Dr. King actually writes that he died of, quote, old age, which you can't write on death certificates anymore.

[Morgan Abshur]

It's kind of the olden version of natural causes, which. Yeah, I know. Even that nowadays is kind of like. Like there's a lot of question surrounding.

[Kaylin Moore]

That, but what it means, that's kind.

[Morgan Abshur]

Of the same energy we're getting.

[Kaylin Moore]

Yeah, but it feels like even more of a catch all old age.

[Morgan Abshur]

How old was Charles at this point?

[Kaylin Moore]

Okay, he was murdered, but he was old. Like, what? At that point, Charles was in his 80s.

[Morgan Abshur]

Okay.

[Kaylin Moore]

So Emily thinks that there's absolutely no way that her brother just died of old age. Something was definitely going on. And she figures that at that point, there's probably nothing she can do about it. But someone else inside of the house is getting very suspicious of things, and that's Franklin. Despite walking with a limp, he's still in good health. On May 29, just a few weeks after Charles dies, Franklin paints a fence at the Archer home. But that night, after he paints the fence, he starts having these really intense stomach cramps, and then he starts throwing up. And on the evening of May 30th, Dr. King comes by, and he gives Franklin a tablet for indigestion. Do not know exactly what that means.

[Morgan Abshur]

More arsenic.

[Kaylin Moore]

After that, Franklin's health continues to get worse and worse. And in fact, he actually doesn't even survive the evening When Franklin's sister Nelly receives a call from Amy alerting her that Franklin was in really bad condition. She was given an even more ridiculous reason for his illness than indigestion. Amy actually tells Franklin's sister that Franklin is suffering from boils on his neck.

[Morgan Abshur]

What?

[Kaylin Moore]

Like, I don't even know today what that would be. But she tells her that, like, he has these boils on his neck, and it's actually this infection, and it's spreading throughout his entire body. We don't really know what's going on. And Nellie hears this, and she also is like, what is that? What do you mean, boils on his neck? And she doesn't believe Amy at all.

[Morgan Abshur]

No, I wouldn't either.

[Kaylin Moore]

And she eventually gets word that Franklin passes away. She is incredibly suspicious of this whole thing. So she arrives the next day to start collecting Franklin's things. And that's when she finds another clue. It's a letter to Franklin from Amy, and it's dated January 6, 1914, which is just a few months earlier. And in it, Amy actually wrote out this whole sob story about how her late husband Michael had actually drained all of her finances.

[Morgan Abshur]

Oh, my God.

[Kaylin Moore]

She asks if Franklin can lend her a thousand dollars, which $34,000 today. She says she would need it by the next day, or she might lose the home. Unfortunately, we're not sure exactly how Franklin responded to the letter or if he ever gave Amy the money, even though my gut says that he didn't. I feel like, I think, think I came across that in my research that he didn't give her the money. Probably why she took him out, maybe why she was so mad at him. But regardless, Nelly to Nelly, it doesn't even matter if he gave her the money or not. As far as she's concerned, she's holding evidence of Amy Archer Gilligan's motive in her hand. And Nelly goes straight to the offices of the Hartford Courant to speak with Clifton Sherman, the guy who has not wanted to talk about this story. She doesn't know that Carlin's been working on the story and has been doing so in secret and has kind of like been working on Clifton. But she goes into his office, she gives Clifton Sherman everything. She has this letter and he basically decides that, okay, something is going on. Carl, you were right. We have to start investigating this like something's going on. I think he probably was scared that more people were going to talk about it around town. Yeah. Now that it was like becoming such a big thing. Also, I made a note here. I'm like, this is like the first time in history that like a woman has come in with evidence and has gotten an investigation started. Like, especially in the early 1900s, the fact that it was a woman, woman who was like, I think something's going on. And they were like, I believe you. Really impressive.

[Morgan Abshur]

Quite surprising.

[Kaylin Moore]

Really impressive. And so this basically means that it's time for the investigation to move forward.

[Morgan Abshur]

Wow. I'm actually shocked that he's getting on.

[Kaylin Moore]

Board even still, but I know, I know it feels like there's a lot at stake and there, yeah, are big powers at play.

[Morgan Abshur]

Wow.

[Kaylin Moore]

But he's finally like, okay, we can look into this. I think too sometimes people want to be the one to break the story or they want to be the one to like take credit for breaking something. So maybe something flipped in his mind where he's like, well, if we can't pacify everyone, then I want to be the one that's like the guy who broke the story in the Hartford current.

[Morgan Abshur]

That makes sense.

[Kaylin Moore]

So with this letter in hand, Clifton Sherman contacts the state attorney, Hugh Alcorn. And Alcorn agrees that they have grounds to officially investigate Amy. And to do that, they enlist the help of this other full time reporter, this guy named Robert, Robert Thayer. In early June of 1914, a few days after Franklin passed away, Robert goes to the Archer home to interview Amy. He makes it seem like he's writing a profile on her. He approaches her like, you're this Great religious woman like Sister Amy. We want to do this whole profile on you. We're gonna write about you in the Hartford Courant.

[Morgan Abshur]

She ate it up.

[Kaylin Moore]

And she ate it up. She's like, absolutely. Come into my house. Write whatever you want about me. Eventually, in this, like, profile he's writing on Amy, he asks about Franklin, because Franklin was really popular around town, was also, like, seen at church a lot, had friends around town. So he just, like, kind of casually asks about Franklin's death. And Amy kind of goes on this, like, whole thing about how much he was helping around the house and how hard things are going to be without him now that he's gone. She says she actually doesn't know how they're going to manage. And then before the interview is over, this part always kind of makes me laugh. Robert just straight up asks Amy to respond to the rumors that she killed Franklin. Just point blank is like, well, what do you have to say about the fact that you maybe killed him? Oh. And she is totally cornered. She gets very flustered and very defensive. She keeps repeating herself. She keeps saying that Franklin had been fine that morning, and he was painting the fence. I don't know how he died that day. He had seemed to be, like, completely fine. He got sick out of nowhere. And of course, Robert knows about, like, the arsenic purchases Amy's debt, but he doesn't say anything about that to her just yet because he doesn't want to tip his hand. That same week, Robert Thayer visits Dr. King at his office for an interview. And when he brings up Franklin's death, like, even just kind of, like, asking about it, Dr. King immediately loses it on him. He starts yelling about how there was nothing weird about it. Oh, and. And Robert Thayer is like, I didn't say there was anything weird. And Dr. King's like, it's not weird, like, old people die. And so Robert kind of keeps pressing him on this. He asks Dr. King if he thinks it was possible that Franklin was poisoned. And King is like, absolutely not. How could you possibly say that? That's ridiculous. And Robert actually has to leave because things start getting, like, pretty heated in the interview. Based on the way that, like, Dr. King was responding to the questions, Robert starts thinking that, like, Dr. King was in on or at least knows what's up.

[Morgan Abshur]

Yeah, because at that point, it could. The connection could be a little bit unclear. Like, maybe he is just in the dark about it.

[Kaylin Moore]

Absolutely.

[Morgan Abshur]

And all of this, granted, there were records of him buying arsenic as well, but, like, yeah, you know.

[Kaylin Moore]

Right, right. But like, maybe he was just a bad doctor and showed up and, like, wrote the wrong thing on the death certificates and wasn't necessarily part of it, but, like.

[Morgan Abshur]

But his reaction is kind of the reaction drawing.

[Kaylin Moore]

Giving the tablets is so weird. Like, he was giving them this tablet, and they were dying tablets, these little arsenic tablets. So at that point, Clifton Sherman says that it's time to turn things over to the superintendent of the Connecticut State Police, this guy named Thomas Egan, to do this. Basically, they just have to put together all of the evidence that they have and show their findings to him. And then. This part is so cool. You're going to really love this part. So Thomas Egan contacts this woman named Zola Bennett. Zola is this total badass. She's an undercover investigator for the Connecticut State Police, and Egan wants her to check out the Amy Archer home.

[Morgan Abshur]

Oh, please. She's not gonna move in, is she?

[Kaylin Moore]

Well, at the time. No, at the time, Zola is in her 50s, maybe early 60s, and so she is the age that someone would be. So she's able to go to Amy's house and, like, play the role of perspective tenant, basically. And she puts on this whole act. She tells Amy. She. She, like, knows what he's gonna want to hear. So she's like, oh, I'm this wealthy widow. I have no friends. I have no family. My husband left me all this money. And Amy is just like, when can you move in? This is fantastic. And so Zola moves in basically, like, that week.

[Morgan Abshur]

No, she actually. She moves in.

[Kaylin Moore]

She moves in. Which is crazy, because, like, think about it. They know that a lot of people are dying in this house. House. They know that they're being poisoned. But, like, you could be poisoned in so many million different ways. Like, Zola doesn't know exactly how these people are being killed.

[Morgan Abshur]

Yeah.

[Kaylin Moore]

And she still moves in.

[Morgan Abshur]

Zola better have brought her own food and.

[Kaylin Moore]

Right.

[Morgan Abshur]

Beverages, because you can't eat or drink anything there.

[Kaylin Moore]

Anything. You have to be so careful. Like, I would be scared to, like, touch stuff or, like, sleep in the beds.

[Morgan Abshur]

I'd be scared someone's gonna come in my room at night and smother me.

[Kaylin Moore]

Literally, like, locking the door at night. Night. And she. But she's, like, such this badass.

[Morgan Abshur]

She moves in. She is brave.

[Kaylin Moore]

And while. While she's there, she starts befriending a lot of the residents. So she befriends this couple. They're the Goudies. They've been living there, like, for some time. And on the afternoon of November 26, 1914, something strange happens that Zola notices. Amy goes to Alice Gowdy the wife's room and tells her that she needs to take some medicine. And Alice is very confused because Alice feels fine and she's not on any meds. She doesn't have to take any meds. And Amy's like, no, I have medicine for you. Like, you take medicine now. During dinner, Alice starts feeling, like, pretty weak and lethargic. And after finishing her meal, she says to the group that she's like, having these, like, severe stomach cramps. And then Amy calls Dr. King, and he comes over and he's like, hey, I heard you have indigestion. I have a tablet for the that. And he gives her this tablet. And she doesn't die that night. But over the next few days, her husband starts needing to take care of her because her symptoms are getting a lot worse. This is interesting too. After Dr. King gave her the tablet, and her symptoms start getting worse. Like, he never comes back. He's not like, oh, your symptoms are getting worse, so let's see if we. Let's try something else.

[Morgan Abshur]

Yeah, no, he. He's not coming back. Cuz he already super dosed her.

[Kaylin Moore]

He super dosed her. Which obviously just like, underscores the fact that he knew exactly what was going on. And then on December 3rd, Alice passes away. Oh, my God. Her cause of death is listed as digestive issues. Crazy. You could write that on a death certificate.

[Morgan Abshur]

Yeah. And it's just so like this little couple, they're just trying to enjoy retirement.

[Kaylin Moore]

She only killed the one of them.

[Morgan Abshur]

Well. Cause how suspicious would it look if you killed off the whole couple?

[Kaylin Moore]

Yeah, that's also true. It's.

[Morgan Abshur]

You're gonna go for the one, but like. And then, oh, to just be like, here, you take medicine now. Yeah. This is getting insane. Like, I wish you guys could. I'm like, I can't sit still. This episode. I'm so uncomfortable. I'm so stressed.

[Kaylin Moore]

And Zola is in the middle of all of this, and she sees this happen. So she starts kind of like conducting interviews with the other residents. And she's like, like, hey, how are you? It's good to see you. So, like, what do you think about all of these deaths? Like, a lot of people die here. Right? Right. And it's like, I mean, think about it at the time. People are. People don't want to stir the pot. They want to seem grateful.

[Morgan Abshur]

Yeah.

[Kaylin Moore]

They're maybe like pious people. But it's like once Zola starts asking them, the floodgates open. Like, everyone is like, oh, my God. It's weird, right? Like, it's. The deaths are weird.

[Morgan Abshur]

Oh, I just got the chills.

[Kaylin Moore]

And a lot of the residents kind of start confiding in her that they don't want to say anything because they don't have anywhere else to go. That. And so that ultimately is the thing. So they're like, it's weird, but, like, I don't really want to say anything because, like, I. I can't leave here. I'm gonna live on the street. Zola keeps doing these interviews. She keeps investigating, and ultimately, when Amy's not around one day, she goes into Amy's room and she starts snooping through her personal things. And that's where she finds another clue. Clue number six. Which at this point, do we need any more clues? But, like, Zola's still, like, gathering these clues up. She finds Amy. Amy's bank account statements, and she finds all of the resident contracts. And Zola discovers that Amy has been requiring residents to give her access to their bank accounts, their whole accounts. Zola doesn't know how Amy has persuaded so many people to do this, but at this point, it doesn't really matter. She, like, grabs all of these. She writes a bunch of stuff down, and she goes straight to Thomas Egan with all this information. And over the next year, investigators start really building their case, and they speak to a lot of the family members of the deceased. They start hearing about how. How strange it was that their loved one died so fast about, like, maybe the money that was taken out of their accounts. And as they gain all of this information, they actually increase the number of suspicious Deaths to about 60, which is on the very conservative side. Wow, 60. Which is crazy, Morgan, because we've talked about serial killers on this show, and what Zodiac was 5. Golden State Killer was. I can't remember the exact amount, but, like, these people are not getting up to 60 people. The more they learn, the more they realize that it probably would have been hard for Amy to pull this all off on her own. She's like this middle aged, tiny woman. And they have the same thought that Carl had way back when he first looked through the black book, and that's that Dr. King signed off on the vast majority of these deaths. And now when the detectives finally go and talk to him more, they really, like, fully believe that he's involved somehow now. But ultimately, you know, they don't have the tablets he was giving people. They're not able to find them. They're not. They're also not able to, like, really test stuff. So they don't have enough on him to, like, say he was directly involved. And they can't charge him with anything because of that. And he.

[Morgan Abshur]

Hell no.

[Kaylin Moore]

Ultimately, in this case, is never charged with any wrongdoing and continued being a doctor. So they really decide, like, we have to focus all of our attention on Amy, and we have to really go after her, and we have to, like, make sure we get her. There's not a clear course of action right away. It takes kind of a long time to go through the whole process to, like, go through the evidence and to make sure that everything's, like, in order. So it ends up being early May 1916, when they finally obtain a warrant to exhume the body of Franklin Andrew and test it for arsenic. Because they feel like they have to, like, actually get that evidence. Like, okay, the body does have arsenic. And so they contact this. This local medical examiner to help them with the examination. And if you're a listener of hers are pounding or you're someone who is into, like, morbid cemetery in the middle of the night shenanigans, this is, like, absolutely your jam.

[Morgan Abshur]

Okay?

[Kaylin Moore]

Because they. Franklin has a crypt, and, like, exhuming bodies to do autopsies is, like, not really a thing in the early 1900s. Think about it. Like, these people are all religious, too. There's, like, a lot of stigma against, like, digging up bodies that have been buried, especially, like, autopsies and stuff, because you want to be in, like, the condition like, when Jesus raises you, so you, like, you don't want to be tampered with. But they go down to Franklin's crypt, they have these lanterns, and they exhume his body. It's just, like, a small group of them. And the first thing that the medical examiner notices is that, first of all, there's no signs of boils anywhere on his body. Like, that was just a total lie. But what is very strange about Franklin's body, it's been years since he died. There's this layer of sludge on him that if they. They literally, like, like, move the sludge off his body, and they can see that he is in perfect condition. And this is before preserving bodies and.

[Morgan Abshur]

Formaldehyde, embalming, all of that so much a thing.

[Kaylin Moore]

And that is, like, the real telltale sign of arsenic poisoning is when you are dosed with high amounts of arsenic, your body stays in, like, near perfect condition for a long time. It's like a natural preservative.

[Morgan Abshur]

Wow.

[Kaylin Moore]

So they're Like, o. We don't even really have to test this body. We kind of know what happened. But they were good. They still do the marsh test. The marsh test is this test that was developed in 1836, which is how you test bodies for arsenic. And they find evidence that he was, like, undoubtedly poisoned, but also, like, enough poison to kill an elephant, essentially. It was, like, way more poison than you would ever need to kill a person in a system. And that same week, they're able to exhume Alice Gowdy's body. They run the same test. They find that she was also poisoned with Arsenal. And over the next few weeks, they perform autopsies on Charles Smith and Michael Gilligan. And both of those bodies show poisoning as well. I mean, obviously we, like, know this at this point.

[Morgan Abshur]

Yeah, everyone's, like, at the gym, at home, vacuuming in their car, like, screaming, like, obviously.

[Kaylin Moore]

So in May of 1916, nine years after the nursing home opened, and basically nine years after they started being suspicious that something was going on there.

[Morgan Abshur]

Yeah.

[Kaylin Moore]

Police. Police finally arrest Amy archer Gilligan. She's 43 years old at the time. She is held without bail. A few days later, they actually interrogate her. She does admit that she sent people to buy arsenic, but she says that she never gave it to any of her residents. She wouldn't have done that. She's a nice little religious lady.

[Morgan Abshur]

She's crazy is what she is.

[Kaylin Moore]

Obviously, they don't buy it. They have all of the evidence. And while they know that 60 people have most likely died. Died in the Archer home from poisoning, at that point, at least Amy's only charged with five deaths because those are the ones that they could exhume.

[Morgan Abshur]

Yeah.

[Kaylin Moore]

And ultimately she only goes to trial for Franklin Andrews. They're only able to send her to trial for one person. What Amy, also I have here. She was never tried for any financial crimes. She was only tried for murder. The trial began in 1917. Prosecutors had laid out this, like, financial scheme that she was running as evidence. And in the end, the jury did side with the prosecution. They convicted her of first degree murder of Franklin Andrews, and they sentenced her to death, which back in the day, not a lot of women being sentenced to death. This was like, a really big deal. She was able to appeal, though. Her lawyer was able to appeal. And in 1919, she actually went on trial again, and she pleaded insanity this time. Time. So what she would do, actually, I read about this when she was in jail, she would. She was like a organist. She could play the organ and she would like play and sing and just. She really tried to make herself look like she was insane so she could plead insanity. So. Yeah, yeah. And I know it was like all the. Just the stuff she would do on the organ, like playing loud music and stuff that like, wow. To make people think she was insane. And actually during the trial when she was pleading insanity, she brought her own drugstore record to the trial. And she was like, look, I'm insane. Look at how much morphine I've bought over the last few years. She bought 2500 morphine tablets in three years between 1912 and 1915, all for herself.

[Morgan Abshur]

That doesn't make you look better.

[Kaylin Moore]

No, that doesn't.

[Morgan Abshur]

Yeah.

[Kaylin Moore]

She tried to do it like, oh, this is proof that, like, my mental health is bad. It's like. No, it just makes it look like you were doing a lot of morphine, which doesn't.

[Morgan Abshur]

You have more. So a drug problem.

[Kaylin Moore]

Yeah, yeah. Not an insanity issue. Her whole argument basically was that the morphine was influencing her mental health, that she was taking the morphine maybe for her mental health. It was like a very unclear argument that she was trying to go for.

[Morgan Abshur]

Yeah.

[Kaylin Moore]

But the jury bought it. They buy this insanity plea.

[Morgan Abshur]

What?

[Kaylin Moore]

And they re sentenced her. So she was charged with second degree murder and she instead, she was sentenced to life in prison, but eventually was transferred to the Connecticut it General Hospital for the Insane in 1924. And she remained there for 38 years until her death in 1962. And she was 89 years old when she died.

[Morgan Abshur]

Well, at least she didn't get back out. But like, justice was not served in the way it should have been.

[Kaylin Moore]

No.

[Morgan Abshur]

It's also interesting too, that the jury did buy that because it's like, if someone was actually having a mental health crisis, I don't think they would have the ability to keep a tidy record of their morphine purchases.

[Kaylin Moore]

Absolutely.

[Morgan Abshur]

Like, that's. I can barely keep a Google spreadsheet. Yeah. And I'm mostly with it most days.

[Kaylin Moore]

There was a lot of, like, really interesting theories about, like, women in crime back then too, because a lot like criminology was kind of this, like, it was new field of study that was starting.

[Morgan Abshur]

Yeah.

[Kaylin Moore]

And a lot of people believed that, like, think of phrenology and stuff. Like, oh, the way someone's skull is like, is proof that they're smart or dumb, whatever. And they did that a lot with women and they thought that, like, tiny, petite women were way less capable of murder and that, like big bulking, like, they bring up Lizzie Borden, a lot. Because Lizzie Borden was like this big woman and they tried to use that as proof that she was capable of murder because only like a woman with like a square jaw and like a big head. And Amy was this really tiny woman. So I could also see them being like a woman like that would never. She was so religious. She was so tiny.

[Morgan Abshur]

Very unassuming.

[Kaylin Moore]

Very unassuming, yeah. Like maybe she was put in a bad position and she needed money. And so we get it. I don't know what it was, but.

[Morgan Abshur]

It is insane the amount of money she took from residents, the estates I'm sure she had from her second husband.

[Kaylin Moore]

Yeah.

[Morgan Abshur]

And the will. I just, like, don't understand. Like, church window aside, like, where did it all go?

[Kaylin Moore]

Yeah, I think that's still something that's like, very unclear. A lot of it did go to the church, which is like, kind of surprising. I don't know why she's giving so much to the church if she wasn't paying her bills. Maybe it was like a weird tax write off thing. But this brings up a question I've always had about this case, which I'm curious what you think. Do you think she was a serial killer in the sense that she killed for the thrill, or do you think she killed for the utility of like, I need money and this is how I get money and I don't care that I'm killing people. Or was it like the enjoyment of killing?

[Morgan Abshur]

I honestly think it probably started as I'm in a really bad position and I'm gonna take a couple people out. But I think once she realized how easy it was, because I don't think you kill. I don't think you kill that many people because you get to a certain point where it's like, I've got enough, my bills are covered, I'm good. So I think she did keep killing because she did enjoy the thrill of it. Yeah, I do think she is, like, she went into the full serial killer.

[Kaylin Moore]

There probably was a way at some point to redevelop the business strategy so that she could get out of debt.

[Morgan Abshur]

A little bit, reinvest open a second house, keep reinvesting, open a third house.

[Kaylin Moore]

Like, change the fees, like, literally a.

[Morgan Abshur]

Need for this, get rid of the.

[Kaylin Moore]

Thousand dollar lifetime care, because clearly that's not working. But she kept it, even though it wasn't working because she knew she was.

[Morgan Abshur]

Going to kill him having that excuse. Yeah, no, I think she. And she kept upping the ante. Like, she kept. Kept escalating in the way That a lot of the serial killers we talk about do. She got comfortable. She, you know, started doing it right after marriage and. Here, sign the will. Oh, you're dead the next day. Like there was. She got comfortable. She didn't really care about the risk anymore. She needed to up the ante.

[Kaylin Moore]

Yes, yes. Yeah. The. The thrill of it.

[Morgan Abshur]

The thrill. Do you think James was in on it? Her first husband?

[Kaylin Moore]

No, I actually think James was first. I don't think she killed anyone before she killed. There's a little bit of evidence. So before she opened the. In Windsor, she actually was working for just one man in like a few towns over with James. And they were just caretakers for this man and he passed away. And then they came to Connecticut or to Windsor and opened old folks home. So some people believe that she actually, she and James together poisoned the other man, used some of that money that they maybe got from him to open the home, in which case James would be in on it. But I think he would be a little bit too privy to be poisoned if he was that in on it.

[Morgan Abshur]

You wonder if he started like discovering and that's why she took him out.

[Kaylin Moore]

To be like, yeah, you're not gonna.

[Morgan Abshur]

Get in the way of my stuff. Like, I'll just take you out too.

[Kaylin Moore]

Right, right.

[Morgan Abshur]

It is interesting.

[Kaylin Moore]

I know. So. I don't know. Gosh.

[Morgan Abshur]

Yeah, it's a wild one. No, she. Wow, that is a lot.

[Kaylin Moore]

Yeah.

[Morgan Abshur]

A lot of people to. To take out and hurt in that way. And the families and just like, I know some of them didn't have families, but the ones that did, it's. It's very tragic.

[Kaylin Moore]

I know, it's heartbreaking. It's a crazy story. It's.

[Morgan Abshur]

Wow.

[Kaylin Moore]

I mean, at this point, over 100 years old.

[Morgan Abshur]

Yeah.

[Kaylin Moore]

We still see a lot of this stuff today with like the elder abuse and all that.

[Morgan Abshur]

Elder abuse is big. Medicare fraud and like killing people and then collecting Social Security checks is big. I mean there's. Yeah, there's so many things like this still happening. But I'm curious about your, your great grandpa. Did he. He become an official, like big reporter, sleuth, detective?

[Kaylin Moore]

Like. Yeah, he worked for the paper for the rest of his life.

[Morgan Abshur]

Okay.

[Kaylin Moore]

That was like always. His thing was he always was a reporter for the paper. He actually didn't love talking about the case in his life. He was a very soft spoken, humble man. He had like six kids. And there's actually one of my favorite stories about him is the guy that lived next to him in Windsor was Gary Merrill, who moved to Hollywood and became an actor and producer and actually married Bette Davis.

[Morgan Abshur]

What?

[Kaylin Moore]

So. And dated Rita Hayworth. Like they had this crazy life. So one day he brought Bette Davis to my great grandfather's house for dinner. And my great grandfather didn't think she dressed very modestly. That was like his only thought about Bette Davis.

[Morgan Abshur]

Oh my gosh.

[Kaylin Moore]

That was just kind of the guy. He was like, he's not into like the flashy. The show of it. He always rode a bike. He never drove a car.

[Morgan Abshur]

Like, do you think he had any? You know, Cuz it seems like he fought really tooth and nail from the beginning to like, let's talk about this, let's get this out there. And like, it's a different methodology too, even in that time. Like, it's more so done by the reporters versus just like, hey, I have a hunch, let's go to the police.

[Kaylin Moore]

Right?

[Morgan Abshur]

Like, they had to do so much legwork to even get this rolling.

[Kaylin Moore]

Yeah, that's a good point.

[Morgan Abshur]

And like, I'm just curious too. Like, he didn't like to talk about it. You wonder if because of how many people then from the time he discovered it to the time something actually happened, if he in some way felt guilty and it's like, he should not have.

[Kaylin Moore]

Saved so many people.

[Morgan Abshur]

Yeah, like, he definitely moved faster.

[Kaylin Moore]

It's, it's really interesting how slowly they had to move.

[Morgan Abshur]

I mean, nine years. Like years and years and years.

[Kaylin Moore]

So that is all we have on Amy Archer. But we did want to do a new segment today.

[Morgan Abshur]

Yes, I do want to do a new segment. This is something Kaylin and I have talked about and you know, when coming up with clues and really determining like what we wanted our true crime show to be, we really want to grow a community that can make a difference, that we can highlight cases that are either botched and let you know, investigators learn from those mistakes or bring awareness to cases, especially those of people of color and missing murdered indigenous women. Like, we want this show to really grow and become something. And so something we are going to start doing is highlighting a missing person each week. Get the word out, create awareness, and who knows where it could lead us. So we are going to be highlighting Shaelyn McAllister today. She was 20 years old when she disappeared. A member of the Horse Lake First Nation disappeared on July 4, 2019 in Fairview, Alberta. Shaylyn is described as the following. Wayne, Indigenous female, brown hair, brown eyes, 5ft 8 inches tall, 145 pounds. The RCMP says that Shailen left her place of employment on July 4, 2019 at 10:35pm and she was last known to be at the Fairview Shell station the Same night at 11:22pm she has not been heard from since then. RCMP now believe that she is unlikely to be found alive, but they are hopeful that a new billboard they put up and a ten thousand dollar reward board will help them generate some leads. Shaylyn McAllister was a mother of two. Family is keeping her memory alive through photos and stories. They call her the kids's guardian angel. RCMP believes someone in Fairview knows what happened and just hasn't come forward yet. There are similar awareness efforts that have occurred in northern B.C. along the highway of Tears, which is a 447 mile or 719 kilometer quarter of Highway 16 between Prince George and Prince Rupert in British Columbia, Canada. This has been a location of crimes against many women, particularly indigenous women. So if you have any information on Shay Lynn you can call the RCMP at 780-509-3400. They're actively taking calls and tips on.

[Kaylin Moore]

This case and that's all we have for this episode of Clues today. We hope you guys enjoyed getting into this case with us. Yeah, obviously this one hits close to home.

[Morgan Abshur]

Does this is just a crazy story, crazy connection.

[Kaylin Moore]

I want to hear about the ones that hit home for you guys because maybe that's something. Maybe we'll pick one of those cases for an episode one day. I'm always curious what's been going on in your dark little weird towns.

[Morgan Abshur]

Yeah, absolutely. Along with our new missing person segment. If there's any cases you know about like there's is going to be a boots on the ground effort you guys. So be sure to comment share.

[Kaylin Moore]

I was even thinking like Morgan and I are going to keep like a running list of everyone but if someone in the community also wants to help like as we, if we get updates on something or like we'll just, we'll maybe this is kind of like a community thing that.

[Morgan Abshur]

Absolutely. I think we could do like a Google sheet. I know like Google has alerts we can sign up for updates in relation to like our missing people, people's names and see if we get any updates we can kind of keep track of. But this is something we're, we're very passionate about and want to have this show do something. We want to want to be different and just make this something.

[Kaylin Moore]

I totally agree.

[Morgan Abshur]

Yeah.

[Kaylin Moore]

All right.

[Morgan Abshur]

That's all we have for you guys today. Thank you so much for joining us on another episode. I'm gonna be taking the lead on a case here soon.

[Kaylin Moore]

I can't wait.

[Morgan Abshur]

It's stressful. I'm gonna tell you right now, you better prepare yourself. It's stressful not knowing what's happening, so.

[Kaylin Moore]

Okay.

[Morgan Abshur]

Wish you luck.

[Kaylin Moore]

Yeah. All right, we will see you guys next week.

[Morgan Abshur]

Bye, guys.

[Kaylin Moore]

Bye. Hi there. It's Vanessa Richardson. Crime House is your go to destination for the most gripping true crime shows. On my show, Killer Minds, join me and forensic psychologist Dr. Tristan Engels for two new episodes as we dive into the twisted story of the doctor Death serial killer, Michael Swango. Craving more deep dives into the minds of the world's most dangerous killers, Follow Killer Minds on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you listen.