Clues with Morgan Absher and Kaelyn Moore

Episode: The Lipstick Killer: The Murderer that Terrified Chicago

Date: December 17, 2025
Podcast: Crime House Original, powered by PAVE Studios
Hosts: Morgan Absher & Kaelyn Moore

Overview

This episode dives deep into the infamous Lipstick Killer case that shook Chicago in the mid-1940s. Morgan and Kaelyn meticulously reconstruct the three linked murders—Josephine Ross, Frances Brown, and Suzanne Degnan—exploring the forensics, timeline, police work, and controversies, particularly around the conviction of William (Bill) Hirons. The hosts critically analyze the evidence, the media circus, police conduct, and explore alternative theories for this still controversial case.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Stage (06:21–09:12)

• First Murder:

  • June 5, 1945 – Josephine Ross found murdered in her ransacked apartment.
  • Key details: Throat slashed, body bathed post-mortem, apartment staged but not robbed.
  • Only a few dollars taken, dark hairs found in hand.
  • Two witnesses spot a dark-haired man in a white sweater.

  “But at 1:30pm her younger daughter Jacqueline decides she's gonna come home for lunch. She steps inside the house, and something immediately feels totally off...” — Kaelyn (06:21)

2. Investigation and Unreliable Leads (09:12–13:10)

• Police focused on known suitors with alibis—both quickly eliminated.

• The “burglary gone wrong” theory felt weak due to the staging and time spent by the killer.

• The oddity and staging led some to believe the perpetrator knew the victims.

  “If it was a burglar, why would they have taken the time to wash the blood off of Josephine's body and also patch her wounds together with tape?” — Kaelyn (13:10)

3. Second Murder: Frances Brown (13:25–21:32)

• December 10, 1945 – Frances Brown is found posed, undressed, murdered: stabbed, shot in the head, and with more evidence cleaned up/bathed.

• Most notorious clue: Lipstick message on the wall:

  For heaven's sake, catch me before I kill more. I cannot control myself. (17:21)

• Police speculation leans bizarrely on the use of lipstick—suggesting a woman as the killer at first.

• A bloody fingerprint found at the scene but did not match any records.

  "Sprawled on the living room wall... written in bright red lipstick, was the disturbing message..." — Morgan (17:21)

4. Media Influence and the Lipstick Note (18:51–21:32)

• Intense rivalry among Chicago papers, open speculation whether the lipstick note was planted by a journalist to sensationalize the crime.
• The note’s handwriting and phrasing scrutinized; some experts—a woman’s hand, but print/cursive mix and height suggest a man.

5. Third Crime: The Degnan Kidnapping and Murder (24:45–34:53)

• January 6–7, 1946 – Six-year-old Suzanne Degnan is kidnapped at night.

• Family receives a ransom note with odd, sloppy handwriting:

  "Get $20,000 ready and wait for word. Do not notify FBI or police. Bills in fives and tens. Burn this for her safety.” — (31:19)

• Note handwriting determined by experts not to match the lipstick murder note.

• Investigation finds window entry, stolen ladder, handkerchief marked “S. Sherman”, and suspicious footprints, but no solid leads.

• Tip received to check the sewers; Suzanne’s dismembered body found in multiple drains nearby—evidence suggests skilled butchery.

• Autopsy concludes killer likely had medical or butchery skills.

6. Police Response: Panic & Brutality (46:03–55:45)

• Public hysteria: tip lines overwhelmed; mothers terrified; accusations swirl, even targeting Suzanne's father, Jim Degnan.

• Massive, sometimes fruitless police sweeps and detentions—over 400 suspects “interviewed”, including the local janitor Hector Verburg and others, many subjected to torture.

  “Oh, they hanged me up. They blindfolded me. I can't put up my arms. … They handcuffed my hands behind my back and pulled me up on bars until my toes touched the floor. … I would have confessed to anything.” — Kaelyn quoting Hector (52:01)

• Several confessions and suspects, but no charges stick.

7. Break in the Case – William Hirons (57:58–63:17)

• June 1946: William (Bill) Hirons, 17, University of Chicago student, is arrested after burglarizing a nearby apartment. Violent arrest leaves him hospitalized.

• Warrantless search of his dorm reveals stolen goods, some odd/“damning” items (psychology books, surgical kits).

• Press leaks every detail; public turns on Hirons.

  “Do not have a warrant to go through his dorm room. They go in anyways, and they see that he has just all of these stolen goods from about 50 separate burglaries he'd committed...” — Kaelyn (60:57)

8. Highly Questionable Forensics & Legal Misconduct (63:17–76:03)

• Print analysis on ransom note and bloody smear—initially deemed “impossible” to match, suddenly “matched” to Hirons after his arrest.

• FBI never found a conclusive match; local police later change their tune.

• Torture and coerced confessions: truth serum via spinal tap (!), sleep deprivation, denial of attorney and parents, physical violence (burning with ether), all justified by police in pursuit of a confession.

  "I confessed to live.” — Kaelyn quoting William Hirons (84:59)

• Polygraph results manipulated; police report "inconclusive" though Hirons actually passed.

9. Show Trial, Plea, and Aftermath (77:50–84:59)

• After a media-driven circus, pressured by police, press, and even his own self-interested lawyers, Hirons pleads guilty—then attempts to recant.

• Sentenced to three consecutive life terms; spends 65 years in prison, maintains innocence, becomes model prisoner and jailhouse lawyer—but appeals and parole denied.

• One victim’s daughter, Mary Jane Blanchard (Josephine Ross’s), always doubted his guilt.

  “I just doesn't make any sense that a 17 year old boy would have murdered my mother... it never once crossed my mind that someone like William would have done this.” — Kaelyn, quoting Mary Jane Blanchard (86:26)

10. Forensic Reassessment & Lingering Doubts (87:42–91:44)

• Modern experts and journalists reexamine fingerprint evidence; evidence of planting, mishandled forensics, and possible fabrication.
• Many aspects of MO between crimes do not match; couple sighted carrying bundles remain mysterious and unexplored.
• Discussion: hosts doubt all three murders are connected; possibly separate perpetrators.

11. Justice Denied—Systemic Failure (90:58–93:39)

• Widespread view that if this case were tried today, it would never stand.
• Large protest held in response to police brutality directly related to investigation.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Police Interrogation/Torture:

  “Oh, they hanged me up. They blindfolded me. … I would have confessed to anything.” — Kaelyn (52:01, quoting Hector Verburg)

• The Lipstick Message:

  “For heaven's sake, catch me before I kill more. I cannot control myself.” — Morgan (17:21)

• On Evidence Tampering:

  “Sergeant Laffey admitted that he was eager to find a fingerprint match because he simply just didn't like William.” — Kaelyn (66:48)

• Kaelyn’s Reflection:

  “I still don't even know if the same person committed all three of the crimes.” (91:28)

• On False Confessions:

  “I confessed to live.” — Kaelyn quoting William Hirons (84:59)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• First Murder (Josephine Ross): 06:21–13:10
• Second Murder & Lipstick Message: 13:25–21:32
• The Ransom Note, Suzanne's kidnapping: 31:19–34:53
• Suzanne’s Body Found, Butchery Details: 38:16–44:24
• Public Panic, Mass Detentions & Torture: 46:03–55:45
• Hirons Arrest and Warrantless Dorm Search: 57:58–63:17
• Questionable Forensics/Confessions: 63:17–76:03
• Trial, Plea, Outburst, Aftermath: 77:50–84:59
• Modern Reassessment & Lingering Doubts: 87:42–91:44
• Protest, Final Reflections: 93:06–93:39

Final Thoughts & Unanswered Questions

• The evidence connecting the three murders is shaky; hosts suggest separate killers are possible.
• Police conducted coercion, torture, and likely evidence fabrication; system-wide failure highlighted.
• The “Lipstick Killer” name lingers, but truth remains elusive—justice for victims and the accused remains unresolved.
• Listeners are encouraged to share theories, especially about the mysterious couple seen on the night of Suzanne's abduction and the potential for other unconnected cases.

Memorable Listener Discussion Prompts

"What do you guys think? Do you think William was guilty? Do you think there was justice not served? If William wasn't the guy, justice was not served." — Morgan (92:18)

Additional Note

• Missing Person of the Week: Heaven Desiree McGee, last seen January 20, 2025, Oakland, CA. (93:43–95:14)
• Police brutality fallout: The janitor and his wife successfully sued the city; widespread protest against police brutality. (93:06–93:39)

Tone and Takeaways

Morgan and Kaelyn maintain a conversational but critical, investigative tone. They’re deeply skeptical of the official narrative, highlight injustices, and frequently break down both the forensics and human impact. The episode blends storytelling, forensic critique, and open-ended theorizing, making for a thorough, critical examination of one of America's most infamous unsolved/mis-solved serial murder cases.