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Do you have ADHD or are you just OVERWHELMED? Expert Dr. Ari Tuckman Explains the Difference | Clutterbug Podcast # 273
00:48:58
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- [00:00]
A
If you've ever felt like a chicken with your head cut off, just running around, not really sure if you're getting anything done that you should be, but also feeling like you're working super hard, irregardless, this podcast is for you. I'm excited. We're talking about ADHD, and we're talking to the leading ADHD specialist in the world, Dr. Ari Tuckman. Dr. Tuckman is a clinical psychologist and. And he is internationally recognized as the expert on ADHD. With over 20 years of experience, he has helped countless individuals better understand and manage adhd. He is an author. He has multiple books and a new book coming out right now on adhd. If you are curious if maybe you have it, or a loved one or you just want to know more about how to be productive when you're feeling super scatterbrained. I am excited for you to listen to today's podcast, but just like always, I don't want you to sit and passively listen or watch. I want you to do something today, something small to make yourself proud, whether that is getting rid of 21 things in your home that you no longer need that you can put in the trash or donate. It can be old receipts or gum wrappers or expired food, or you're doing the dishes or. Or you're putting away that load of laundry, or you're going for a walk and moving your body. What can you do to make yourself proud while learning some really cool things, Also getting stuff done, because you, my friend, are amazing. So, without further ado, let's meet Dr. Tubman. Welcome, Dr. Tuckman. I'm so excited to have you here.
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B
I am super psyched to be here. I think this is gonna be really cool. This is our first chance to actually really hang out. So I'm really excited to do it.
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A
I'm excited, too. The first time I met you was at a Chad conference a few years ago, and even before I met you in person, everyone was talking about you. And this is honestly what someone said to me. They said, have you met Ari yet? He's our leader. And I was like, like our. She's just like the ADHD community. He's our. He. He's our king. He's our leader. And so I didn't know if you knew that's how people thought of you.
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B
Wow. Hopefully, I. Hopefully benevolent leader, right? She didn't put a. An adject. A descriptor on that. So we'll. We'll assume the best.
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A
I. I think it's because you are obviously, like, so Engaged in the community. You were like the leading ADHD expert. I would love you to tell my audience how you got into. I mean, do you have adhd? Is this just something you found consistently with your clients? How is this your special. How are you our kid?
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B
Yeah, it's sort of a. You know, it's a funny story, but I think it kind of spread. Speaks to sort of what life brings you and what you do with it. So, you know, when I came out of grad school in the late 90s, I was kind of trying to figure out, like, what am I doing here? You know, where's my place in the world? Who am I going to see? And I sort of fumbled around and, you know, like people do. But the psychiatrist who ran the group practice I was with said, you know, I got these adults with ADHD and I'm putting them on medication and, like, it helps, but. But, you know, really kind of. They could use, like, kind of practical life skills, right? And at the time, I was like, well, I don't. I have all openings, so sure, I'll see anyone like ax murderers. Sure. I. I'm free at 2, so. But the thing of it is, it was just a great fit, right? It's sort of. It's a great fit for how I like to work. And at the time, ADHD in adults was really sort of an underserved population. You know, like, it's different now, like, in 2025, than it was in the late 90s and early 2000s. So. So there was this, like, big group of people who were just not being well served by the other clinicians. And it was just like a perfect storm kind of a moment. But what's funny about it is, as I've sort of reflected back on the people in my life over various points in time and then have had contact with some people since then. Like, so many of the people in my past have adhd. So, like, clearly, like, I gravitate towards people with ADHD even before I knew that that's what it was.
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A
I love that. I. I mean, I wasn't diagnosed Till I was 45, and I think a lot of my listeners, I hear and I see in my comments over and over. I'm not sure if I have adhd. Does this resonate with me? And if you're listening to the Clutterbug podcast, you're probably struggling with just managing the daily life stuff, so I would love if you could. I mean, you're not going to diagnose a horde of people listening, but is There sort of. Does it show up differently in adults? And, and, and yes, tell my listeners, is there something that they could be like, this is a takeaway. Or if you're chronically overwhel, the solutions and tactics and tools that you use for ADHD kind of help everyone. So it doesn't matter. Question mark.
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B
Sure. And that part's definitely true, right? In the sense that good ADHD friendly strategies, they just tend to be really good strategies and probably most people would benefit from them. Now, the difference is not everybody needs quite those strategies, right? So folks who don't have ADHD can do better with certain things that folks with ADHD won't benefit from in the same kind of. So it goes one direction more than the other direction, if that makes sense. But, you know, the key to. The key to ADHD is. Or this question of like, oh, I wonder if I might have it is it's about like a consistent pattern of struggle across time and across situations.
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C
Right.
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B
If it's more variable, like, I was fine until, you know, I got this job and now I'm struggling, but before that I was okay, you know, then it might, it's something, but it's probably not ADHD at that point, but it's that it just sort of, it's always there, right. Like, it shows up in that job that you hated, but it also showed up in the job that you loved. You know, when you're really overwhelmed, let's say you've got a newborn who's just crushing you every night.
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C
Right.
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B
Obviously that's a hard time, but even before you had a newborn, Right. Still it was more of a struggle than it felt like it should be.
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C
Right.
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B
Those are the sort of tip offs that, like, maybe this is more than just, I'm not good at being organized.
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A
I, I honestly had no idea that I had adhd. I should have. The signs were there, but I think when you're living in this state, this is your norm. And I also think, think I don't know nothing from nothing, but maybe sometimes this could be hereditary. So I saw these traits with my mom as well. So I grew up thinking this frantic, never knowing where anything is. Always lost, always late, always just chaotic. Was. Was normal. Today I forgot to take my medication because I was called out to work in the middle of the night and I spent 20 minutes looking for my coff. I have a very tidy home. I'm just wandering. And then I forgot I was in the room. And then I'm like, what am I doing? And then for some reason I was moving plants outside and I'm like, what am I? I'm looking for my coffee and I'm, I'm like, I didn't take my meds today. So it isn't even like a thunderbolt of difference. It's these little subtle things where everything just seems a little bit harder than it is for other people.
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B
Yeah, yeah. And that's exactly it.
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C
But.
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B
But it's also this family thing is exactly right, that it's sort of like this is just what we do, right? You know, this is what Henderson's are like or whatever, right? Like whatever your name is. Like, like, well, it's what some of them are like, but it also doesn't have to be, you know, or it's like, oh, my family's Greek. Or, you know, we're from the Midwest. This is what we do, right? Like, you know, like that's a thing that, that it sort of fits, right? Except also like, there's very much genetics to adhd and it definitely is a thing that like kids get diagnosed because pediatricians and teachers are more sort of aware of adhd. And then one of the parents goes, oh boy. Yeah, that sounds familiar. And sometimes they talk about themselves and sometimes they're talking about their spouse.
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C
But.
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B
But yeah, you usually don't have to look that hard through the family tree to find some other people who you would bet 50 bucks probably also have ADHD.
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A
I have to take a second to thank today's podcast sponsor, Caraway Cookware. I've treated myself to new caraway pots and pans. They are gorgeous. I have both the like off white and the blue set and I love them. Not only do they cook really evenly, they're super fast and easy to clean, but I love that they are non toxic. I used to have a bunch of Teflon cookware and what I didn't realize is that just one scratch in that and it's releasing a ton of microplastics and toxins. It only takes 2.5 minutes for a non stick pan to overheat and release toxins even without a scratch. And 97% of Americans have PFAS, toxic chemicals from non stick cookware in their blood. These are all things I didn't know. Listen, it is time for you to upgrade your cookware to something that's healthy and also easy to use and easy to clean. And I recommend caraway. Take a second and visit carawayhome.com clutterbug and you can take an additional 10% off your next purchase. This deal is exclusive just for our listeners. So visit carawayhome.com clutterbug or use the code clutterbug at checkout. Caraway Non Toxic Cookware Made Modern. Okay, I definitely want to talk about your new book, the ADHD Productivity Manual. And I want to talk about strategies for my listeners to help them become more productive. I am such a productivity junkie. But before I jump into this, because if I'm going to forget, so I have to just say I was actually talking to a friend last week and she was talking about a family member of hers who has a small child diagnosed with adhd. And the kids kind of like always getting in trouble and doing little things and, and kind of being annoying. And my point is I, I felt this at my core and I felt so bad for this little child that I don't even know because I think something that adults don't understand is when you're a child with adhd, you're constantly being corrected. Yes, you're constantly being corrected and you're doing things that are annoying and you're doing, you're not paying attention. But I don't think there's like a malice there. There's not like, I, I can speak for myself. I wasn't trying to be a bad kid, and yet I was always bad and always in trouble, whether it was at school or at home or at a friend's house. And I think that psychologically really does some damage. And so I'm really passionate. I'm new to the ADHD community, ADHD community, because I was recently diagnosed, but I'm, I feel like. What's the solution here? Dr. If we know of children who are in this, or if you are a child yourself, constantly corrected, even as an adult, we hold that and I think it's, it changes us.
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B
Yeah.
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A
I would love to hear your input on this at all.
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B
Yeah. So this is incredibly important because the thing of it is, you are absolutely right. Kids who are off task, kids who are not doing the thing that an adult thinks they should be doing is going to get way more comments and corrections. And you know, as an, as the adult in the room, whether it's a parent or teacher, you know, if we're generally holding it together, right. We're not overwhelmed, we're not stressed out, we're not exhausted by our own life, then hopefully we do it in a reasonable kind of a way. But also adults have their own struggles. Right. Like we're not always perfect or maybe the first seven times were pretty good, but not on the eighth time.
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C
Right.
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B
So those kids do get a lot more of those kind of comments. And it starts out maybe as why did you do that thing? But eventually it becomes, what is wrong with you for doing that thing?
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C
Right.
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B
And that is either implicitly or explicitly stated.
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C
Right.
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B
So it affects how you see yourself, but also, like classmates and other kids, you know, like, kids don't want to sit next to the kid who gets in trouble. Kids don't want to sit next to the kid who's talking in class and then gets them in trouble for talking in class.
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C
Right?
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B
So, like, there's social consequences to this as well, from peers. So, like, this is where the psychological or this is where the neurological becomes psychological. It affects how you see yourself. It affects how you approach challenges. It affects how you relate to other people.
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C
Right.
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B
You carry that with you into adulthood. And even if you take medication that, let's say, is miraculous in its benefits, there's still these lifelong lessons of who you are and what is your place in the world and what can you ask of others. And, you know, if you layer being a woman on top of that, you know, like, that's even more. Or if you lay your other sort of demographic qualities onto that, it's even more so, like, it does become complicated and it does become messy. And, you know, like, this is why, as a psychologist, I, I am busy all day, right? Because, like, this is the stuff we talk about. We don't change your adhd, but hopefully we change how you feel about it, how you understand it, and how you feel about yourself.
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A
Yeah, that for me, getting the diagnosis was so important because it was about the self forgiveness. It was about like, oh, it's not like you're a bad person and you don't have enough self discipline and you're blah, blah, blah, you have a real medical condition. But I see people, I know, a lot of my listeners who are listening right now maybe had this same experience of making a lot of mistakes and being constantly corrected as a kid. And now as an adult, there's a lack of trust in yourself. There is this huge, like, I'm just gonna mess it up. I don't even know where to start. I. I'm gonna do the wrong thing anyways. And you're really, you're either like, you went full, I'm gonna just be bad anyways, because I am and you're off the rails, or you' so nervous to make a mistake that you almost have this like, perfectionist thing that comes out there, like, well, I'm gonna have to, you know, and I think a lot of my listeners might be falling into that. I know for myself, there's a real lack of trust as well in like, oh, am I capable of this? Am I gonna do I need a safety net to make sure I'm not gonna totally mess this up at all times. It's tough. So you've got solutions.
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B
Yeah. Although let me just comment on that really quick. So, you know, anxiety and depression lie to us, right. They tell us things are worse than they are.
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C
Right.
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B
Either bad things are gonna happen in the case of anxiety, or bad things did happen and, you know, you should feel bad about them in the case of depression. Right. Anxiety and depression exaggerate the reality. But here's the problem. When you've had untreated ADHD all those years, it's not an inaccurate reading of your track record and it's therefore not a sort of pessimistic projection of what the future holds.
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C
Right.
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B
There's this sort of feeling of like, yeah, there's pretty good odds this goes off the rails. Despite hard effort and good intentions and setting everything right, it's still no guarantee then I'm going to do the right thing at the right moment. So, you know, if you've been diagnosed and treated for anxiety and depression, it probably helped, like, somewhat. Like, I'm sure it was somewhat helpful, but it didn't change your sort of fundamental batting average. Right. It didn't make you more consistent, more predictable, more effective. So, you know, it's, it's at that point, it's kind of empty optimism to feel like, I got it, this is going to be fine.
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A
You're right. Yeah, it really is. Because it's probably. We're going to continually make mistakes and do silly things and messed up up and forget where our coffee is and. Yeah, how do we live a more normal life? I was reading your book and I'm so glad you actually talk about medication being a tool because so many people are really reluctant to take a stimulant. And I'm, as a who you. I used to struggle with addiction. I also was like, ooh, a stimulant? No, I've done some cocaine, doctor, in my past. And I was like, oh, God, I don't want to take something like that. I don't even take.
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B
I'll buy cocaine from the drug dealer on the corner, but the highly regulated, carefully processed medication from the pharmacist, I don't trust it totally.
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A
That's. Well, I won't now buy coke. But that was almost Like, I don't want to do, I don't want to get addicted. I have an addictive personality. I know this about myself. I don't want to take something that's going to get me high. That was my first thought. And the moment I took ADHD medication, it was insane because guess what? I didn't get high. In fact, I got quiet in my brain and it was unnerving and I just cried and it was like, what? And also, man, did it make life a little bit easier.
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B
Yeah. Yeah.
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A
So I'm so glad you talk about that in your book as one of the tools you talk about that right in the beginning because there is a resistance, I feel like for some reason. And I do think it is a, a wonderful tool.
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B
And I mean, that's the thing about medication is, I mean, first of all, I'm a psychologist. I don't write prescriptions. I don't work for a pharma company. I have nothing to gain from medication.
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C
Right.
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B
Financially. But the thing about it is, absolutely, we should be concerned about substance abuse.
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C
Right.
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B
For kids, adolescents, adults, like we should be. Substance abuse causes many, many problems. Nobody wants. But the reality, despite this sort of idea that's out there, the reality is this untreated adhd, especially kids who have more of the hyperactive, impulsive symptoms, is a significant risk factor for substance abuse problems. It is untreated ADHD that's the risk factor. Kids and adolescents with ADHD who are put on stimulant medication have at worst the same risk and probably actually a reduced risk. Adults with ADHD in recovery are more likely to stay sober when they're treated with stimulant medication. So my smart ass line on this is, if stimulant medication is really so addictive, why do so many of my clients forget to take it? Nobody forgets their heroin. No heroin addict gets to mid afternoon and says, wait a second, I don't think I took my heroin today.
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C
Right.
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B
Does not happen. And yet if you can forget your medication, it is dead proof that you're not addicted to it.
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A
Yes. Yeah. Oh my God, that's so good. Because no, it doesn't get you high and it doesn't get you real low. Like a Valium is a very subtle quieting of the background noise in your brain is what I feel, which allows me to stay more on task because I'm not as distracted by all this noise in the background. It literally just turns off the TV for me. And maybe everyone's experience is different. It almost turns off the TV that's in the background that I didn't know was on. And at first it was. That's my experience. Then I switched to a different medication and I, I cried to my husband. I was like, I'm gonna be so boring. I went from a Vyvanse to Concerta. My psychiatrist recommended switching it because I was still having a lot of issues with forgetfulness and distractibility. And so she switched me slowly to a slow dose of Concerta and then raised it each week. And I cried when I went from one dose to the next because I'm like, I'm gonna be so boring. I'm not gonna be able to be creative anymore. I, I cried to her. She's like, you just. Can you give it a couple weeks? How ridiculous was I. Because it's, it, your brain adjusts and I, it's not that big of a deal.
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B
But also, if it did make you boring, then that's clearly not the right dose. Right? Like, something's not right. This is, this is not where we're going for.
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C
Right?
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B
It's like you still want to be you, but a bit more consistent, a bit more planful, a bit more on top of things. So, you know, like, you know, these sort of concerns or these horror stories about medication are usually kind of like worst case scenarios. But usually they're, they're because it wasn't managed well and something needed to be different. And you know what I tell. I kind of say two things when it comes to medication. One is if you can't tell whether or not it's working, then it's not working.
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C
Right.
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B
You shouldn't have to think too hard to figure out what it's doing. But the other thing that I say is if you feel terrible on it, it's not right. Go talk to your prescriber.
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C
Right.
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B
Like, you shouldn't suffer for it.
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A
Yeah, it's so good. I feel like, I feel good. I feel I'm on the right dose. So I wanted to talk about that because I do think there's a kind of stigma and hopefully my listeners, whether they have children who have ADHD or themselves, they're just really reluctant. I would love to. Yeah, I'm glad you said that because I do think it is just one of many tools. And let's talk about other tools. I love that you wrote a book on productivity, because that's an issue. Tell me a little bit about the book and why you wrote it and how it can help.
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B
So, you know, I've been specializing in ADHD for 25 years. This is like the thing I do all day when I'm not on podcasts and hanging out with fun people like you while I'm hanging out with other fun people. We're just not recording it. So I've had a lot of conversations about getting things done, or probably, as it turns out, not actually getting things done. And the thing of it is, there's a lot that goes into productivity, right? There are a lot of different things that can affect, in this moment, on this task, do the gears engage and something happens or do they not quite engage and it doesn't happen? So on the one hand, if you've struggled with productivity and sometimes you don't know why, like, this is why, right? Because it's hard. It's not super easy. And it's not just that you, like, can't figure it out, but also we can figure it out, right? Like, there are things that we can take a look at to say, okay, what about this and what about that? And, you know, what are. What are the different places to look and the things to consider? What are the things that we can do to make certain things a little bit more likely? So, like, that's what this book is. It's. It's everything I've learned about how to help folks with ADHD get stuff done over the last 25 years, covering everything from, like, where it begins with, like, what. How exactly is it that ADHD makes it harder to get stuff done? I talk about, like, setting up a good work environment. I talk about, like, medication and exercise and stuff like that. I talk about kind of using good tools and systems, like, to do lists and planners and things like that. I talk about the kind of psychology of it, right? That sort of mindset stuff. And how do we deal with being overwhelmed or kind of ambiguity where, like, I don't know what I'm supposed to do here, how's this supposed to end up, or perfectionism and, you know, all that kind of, like, mindset stuff and that even get into kind of the social part of it of how productive do you actually need to be? And someone wants you to do something, should you actually do it? And if you're not going to do it, how do you have a good conversation with them? So, you know, it doesn't look like an ADHD moment. So it's like, all of that stuff is what I cover in this book.
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A
I'm excited to dig deeper into it. I am in a lot of my ADHD years are all about the give us the hack, change My life with one hack and was reading your book and you're like, this isn't that okay? You're gonna have to do hard work. And I groaned. I groaned, Dr. Talk, man.
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B
Because I was bearer of bad news.
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A
I don't want to have to be, like, structured, and I don't want to have to go to bed earlier. Let's be real, though. That's a big part of it, isn't it? It's just putting on our big girl or boy pants and having to set up systems and do the work to make life easier.
- [27:24]
B
Yeah, I know, I know. It's a bummer, right? Some of this stuff is boring, but. But the good news is that it does tend to be helpful. You absolutely don't have to be perfect. You shouldn't become a boring person about it. But really, really, it's. It's about living a life that means something to you, right? In that when you're not managing your ADHD well or whatever. We're not managing well when things are not getting done. Too much of life feels like avoiding the. The cost.
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C
Right.
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B
You're avoiding someone being mad at you, some problems, something. Someone yelling about something, or you getting down on yourself. Because yet again, you drop the ball and like, just avoiding negatives is. Is not inspiring.
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C
Right.
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B
That just gets you to zero that. Really the goal of this book and just sort of in general, in terms of how I think about this stuff, is how do you live a life that's worth living? Like a good life where you have time for yourself, for the people you care about, for the projects that are meaningful and interesting, that you can be passionate about.
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C
Right.
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B
That's really what we're talking about here. And that doesn't mean being like everybody else, and it doesn't mean doing every single thing right. It might mean cutting some things loose. It might mean sometimes letting other people be disappointed because. Sorry, man. But you know, living a life that you can feel good about yourself in.
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A
Yeah. So good. Also, I'm gonna put you on the spot right now. Are there. You've. I mean, you've had hundreds. You probably had thousands of clients. Are there certain strategies that you've seen? Everybody's different, but seen that have actually helped. Like if you were like this tool or this thing or these. A few things have actually been effective to help people getting more done or feeling better about the stuff they are getting done. It isn't about always doing more. It's doing more. The right things, perhaps. Are there certain tools or strategies that do seem to work for more people than others.
- [29:40]
B
Yeah. I do think there's a lot of strategies at work. I think what I would say is, and I literally had this conversation like 2 hours ago with a client is sometimes one thing alone is not enough, right. That, like, one thing doesn't sort of tip the balance either, because it wasn't necessarily the right thing. But even if it was, where you're like, yeah, this is helpful, there could be other things that are still kind of jamming you up.
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C
Right.
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B
So sometimes you need to try a few different things. I think in general, in sort of a simplistic way, folks with ADHD have a more sort of like, direct line to the environment.
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C
Right.
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B
So in other words, stuff that's going on around you is going to shoot into your attention a whole lot more than someone who doesn't have ADHD, who has a better ability to just be like, whatever, what was I doing?
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C
Right.
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B
So one of the sort of implications of that, which is commonly said, but it's harder to actually make ourselves do it, is like, get rid of, like, minimize, push away as much as you can the things that are going to derail you. Now, that doesn't mean that you put your kids into foster care, you know, because, like, they got to stick around. But at least maybe you try to get stuff done when they're not like, you know, clawing away at you or something, but, you know, like, just doing the things that you can do to minimize the distractions so you don't have to count on your attention to sort of push them away.
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A
That's so good. So decluttering, I mean, it had a profound impact on my life. I. It was drastic. When I started decluttering and organizing my spaces, suddenly every area of my life improved. And I think that is because I wasn't just bombard constantly by everything around me. So I was able to focus more. And I was also. It almost became fun for me because as a person with adhd, what I've realized is I need, like, that gamification. Does that make sense? Like, yeah, I was like, dopamine, give it to me. Little fun things. So when I could find 21 things to go that day, or I could fill one trash bag or one donation box, gave me a feeling of completion and excitement. I was proud of myself because I did, like, these little jobs and I saw the added benefits it was giving me outside of just that. So even though my finances were a disaster, my relationships weren't great. You know, I was like a hot mess sandwich in every way. When I started focusing on my home and my environment, I guess, and doing these little projects to get that under control and less distracting. It really did help me in so many other areas of my life. And I felt like that was the easiest place to start because like I could run on a treadmill for 20 minutes and my butt would look the same. I would just be kind of tired. I know I need immediate results.
- [32:43]
B
Yes.
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A
I need to see what I've done.
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B
And so, but, but I think this is really important because. Okay, fine, one donation bag didn't revolutionize your life, but noticing it, right? Really noticing and giving yourself a bit of credit, right, that is incredibly important because the thing is guaranteed, you notice everything you didn't do, right? All the misses, all the negatives, all the screw ups. You're definitely noticing those, right? So you need to be a little bit intentional. Not in some fake, bogus, like too positive kind of a way, but like in a valid way of like, you know what, this is good. Like I am on my way. Like I am taking active steps, steps to make things better for myself.
- [33:33]
C
So.
- [33:34]
B
Absolutely. And like, you know, the whole exercise thing, I think it's a good, it's a good example of a lot of stuff. But like, you're absolutely right. Like you look exact. You could kill yourself at the gym for a month and you probably don't look that different, right? So like I'm gonna get ripped or I'm gonna lose weight or 40 years from now my doctor is going to tell me my heart health looks pretty good. Terrible motivator, not at all interesting. The thing to be excited about when it comes to working out, let's say, is after I work out, I will have a better day today. Like in the hours afterwards, I am going to feel better, I'm going to get more done or I'm going to be in a better mood later or I'm going to sleep better tonight. More immediate benefit, way more motivating.
- [34:20]
A
And I think you could probably take that to everything you do that you want to get done. Like, what is the, the like hit that's going to come from that immediately? It could just be, I'm going to feel really proud of myself. But I think that's also why we have to break things down into smaller chunks. I notice a lot of people who are like, I have to clean my whole house. Oh, it's crazy. And then if it's like, well, what if you just do the dishes?
- [34:49]
B
Yeah, start there, see what happens.
- [34:52]
A
And then you feel really good because you check Check. And I need, I need an actual checklist. Need to like, yeah, get it, girl. Check that thing off. But I think I intuitively learned this. Instead of looking at the mountain, I had to look down at my feet and celebrate each tiny step.
- [35:09]
B
Yeah.
- [35:10]
A
For a number of reasons. One is to get me that little like, yay, hit. I'm a good girl. But also to kind of retrain myself that I'm not, I am capable and I'm not going to fail at everything. Because going from a child with ADHD undiagnosed, failing at everything constantly, over and over again, I just always had the expectations that I could never do anything right, even as an adult. And so I had to be really mindful about celebrating each win in order to build up my confidence, but also to create that motivation. Because for me, like, motivation is excitement. That's what it is. It's excitement. You're excited. You motivated means you're excited to do something. And how can you be excited if you think you're going to suck at it or you think you're going to fail or you're not going to finish? It's almost impossible. And it's really hard to be productive when you're not motivated. So it all starts at that little, like, you need that spark.
- [36:12]
B
Yeah, I mean, it absolutely does. Like, it totally does. So wherever it is that you can find that spark. How am I going to feel about this afterwards when I'm putting that last item in that donation bag? How does that feel? Or if I clear off my desk, how does that feel to look at it, you know, and to really sort of. I kind of call it feeling the future.
- [36:34]
C
Right.
- [36:34]
B
Like connect to that future feeling of what that will be like. And some of it is even, like, even if nobody else knows. I know, like, I know this is a thing I intended to do and like, look at that. I did it.
- [36:51]
A
Yeah. So for my listeners who are working real jobs and possibly have adhd, let's talk about that. Because I've forgotten how much it sucks to have a job. I got fired from probably every job I've ever had. And then I started my own business and you know, lo and behold, hey, I could create my own schedules. I could be flexible. I could work when I was feeling pumped, I could take time off when I wasn't. But then my brain got bored. Board. And I decided, cass, you need a side job. And I got myself a part time job. So now I have to go to work and I have bosses and it's very like, this is the what we do step one, then step two, then step three. And while I love the job, I also hate the job. Ari, help me here. So when we're in a situation like we can't just be our own bosses and create our own schedules and go into with the flow and be impulsive and fun when we want to and stay in bed for days when we need to, we gotta like do the big girl stuff. How do we be productive and a normal member of society in those situations when it feels so hard?
- [38:10]
B
I mean, the thing of it is, even if, when, when you're working for yourself, I mean, you still have expectations and demands from others. Others, you know, customers, clients, whatever, vendors. But even just from yourself, right? Like there's still things to be done. You have more flexibility about how you do it. But that flexibility cuts both ways, you know? Like in some ways it is easier to just have a job with the boss because like they're going to notice if you don't show up in the morning and if you didn't get them the thing by one, you know. So like those shorter time frames do make it easier. The challenge of it is that consistency, right? Working on Monday, getting stuff done on Tuesday, getting more done on Wednesday, right? Like I see where this is going, right? So. And it turns out there's like four weeks in a month and there's like 52 weeks in a year. You know, Damn it. You know, every, really, every one of those.
- [39:06]
A
So does it ever end ever?
- [39:09]
B
Right, Exactly. So it is a challenge. And I think that, you know, if you have ADHD and you're less consistent about your performance, it then becomes more important to kind of manage some of the social impacts of that and not just what you do, but how is it perceived by others, right? And I think in these cases then it's important. Important to show your co workers or your boss or whoever, right? To show them that you're taking it seriously. Like you are working hard at it, you are trying, even if it's not always obvious on the outcome. But at least it's not like if they think you're not doing a great job in the outcome because you're kind of half assing or you're a slacker, you're in trouble, right? That is a problem. So I don't know, I sort of came up with this line. People want good and good outcomes, but they will settle for good intentions, right? So, so either say, hey, I know I was gonna. I know I was supposed to get you that thing by noon, I got Caught up in other things. But I promise you, like, it is important to me. I'm gonna do my best to get it to you. Rather than just going radio silent because you feel embarrassed and then they start thinking, that slacker, she doesn't even care or what, Right. They all sorts of crazy ideas. I think, you know, when I talk about this in the book as well, but like, making it obvious that you're using your tools and systems, right? So if someone says, hey, can you like, put this thing together and get it to me? If you just say, okay, and then you like walk away, right? If you hit the mark, great, whatever. But the problem is if you don't do it, they're going to think to themselves, like, God, she didn't even like, take it seriously enough to write it down. What the hell, right? Whereas if you're like, hold on a sec, let me scribble that down or I'm in the middle of something, send me an email, Tell me exactly what you need.
- [41:09]
C
Right?
- [41:09]
B
Like, you show the other person that you're taking it seriously and that you're doing the best you can with this.
- [41:16]
A
Yeah. For me it was. Has been a humbling experience because I went from being my own boss and having some success to now having bosses who. I'm back in the correction phase. And I'm having trouble, it's very military with like step by step instructions. And I'm having trouble really retaining things and I'm feeling very stupid. So I've had to really. Yeah, just eat. Eat some crow. I don't know what you call it. Like, really be vulnerable and say, listen, I know I've asked a million questions, but I don't understand. Like, I. I learned better by you showing, not just telling when you're. Blah, blah, blah. I'm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But none of it's sticking. So if you could just show me and I can learn kinetically. And I've been labeled pain in the arson. My last name is arson, so. But also I found.
- [42:08]
C
Yeah.
- [42:09]
A
Because I'm like, I don't understand. Excuse me, sir, could you explain it and show me? But I also think in doing that they're realizing that I'm not just ignoring and I care. I'm in this. I really do. I just need a little bit of like, workarounds and to do things differently. So it's embarrassing at first I had to say, like, oh, I have ADHD and I'm having trouble remembering all of these steps. Can we like, can you show me? And I make up little songs to remember it. And I feel like I'm trying to. Am I winning them over? Dr. I don't know. Yeah, but it's better when you can just be really honest.
- [42:52]
B
Yeah. Because here's the thing. The truth comes out anyway, right. When you don't do the thing. Right. Ta da. The truth has been revealed.
- [43:00]
C
Right.
- [43:01]
B
So like, you're not keeping any secrets there, you know? But the thing about it is if you present it as, hey, this would be really helpful, like, I will do a better job on this if you can show it to me this way instead of that way.
- [43:15]
C
Right.
- [43:16]
B
Most bosses or co workers or customers or whatever, like, they want you to do a good job. They want you to give them the right thing. So it is in their interest to do it that other way. Now obviously they can't be working too hard at you getting, you know, like, you got to show them that you're working hard at it. But, but to just sort of say it in a just standard, like, don't over apologize, don't make a big thing of it. Don't get weird. Just like, hey, this would be really helpful to me if we could do it like this. You know what? This really works. And then I'm. I'm gonna totally, like, crush it for you.
- [43:55]
A
Yeah. And don't make it weird. I probably make it weird. Okay, I probably make it weird. But I for. Surely make it weird. But I do think, but only in.
- [44:05]
B
The most entertaining and endearing way, I.
- [44:08]
A
Had to humble myself and allow myself, like, okay, they might think I'm stupid. I might look stupid. It is a little embarrassing to admit, like I'm at. And also I ask questions and it. And I had to say, like, I'm not asking because I think you're doing it silly. Or it's just if you explain the why, I'll retain it better. And so it. It.
- [44:28]
B
But that's an important point to get across. Like, I'm not being oppositional and trying to get out of this. Like, I'm asking because I want to understand this. I want to do a good job for you. I want you to be happy with what I give you. Like, if they wonder about why you're asking, that's the problem.
- [44:46]
C
Right.
- [44:47]
B
It's the wrong assumption.
- [44:49]
A
And I think a lot of my other co workers talking to them, they also didn't fully understand. But it's embarrassing to admit this. Yes. Right. So then we're all just kind of pretending we know what's going on. But when we're brave enough to admit that we're not perfect and we don't always understand everything or we need to look at things or be told or taught a different way. I think it. It helps everyone. So I'm encouraging my listeners. If you're struggling in a workplace with, like, rules that don't really make sense or systems that are like, oh, it's the drudgery, I feel like it is okay to be vulnerable and say, I'm struggling with this. Is there another way we can do this, or is there another way you can explain it to me so that everybody wins?
- [45:37]
B
Yeah. And. And this idea that other people are being cowards, not asking is. Is a real thing. Right. That, like, I'm sure there are people who are like, oh, thank God she asked. I didn't want to. I'm glad she did, you know?
- [45:51]
A
But there's also lots of times that everybody else gets it but me. But that is also okay. It's okay. My brain just works a little bit differently. All right, so good. I'm excited. I can't wait to finish reading. I'm. I'm about a quarter of the way through the ADHD productivity manual. I'm feeling very inspired. I was inspired to start going to bed a half an hour earlier, even though I don't want to. I'm such a night owl. That's something you talk about so much. The profound impact sleep has on the brains.
- [46:20]
B
It really does. It's such a boring topic, but it's so important. God, do it.
- [46:27]
A
And I should exercise daily, too. Fine, fine, fine. I just needed you to tell me. But, yeah, there is no hack. I don't think there's, like, this. This one secret that when you finally get it, I think it's having self awareness and being really forgiving to yourself and just trying these little steps and celebrating every tiny win and stacking that win on yesterday's win. And then tomorrow you get to stack another win, and then before you know it, you're like, look at this amazing tower I made.
- [47:01]
B
Yeah. And that. That is exactly it, right? It's show up and keep showing up.
- [47:07]
C
Right?
- [47:07]
B
Whether you had a great day yesterday or a terrible yes day yesterday, same thing. Keep showing up, right? Just keep showing up. What is the next good thing I can do here?
- [47:19]
A
I love it. And my listeners today, they showed up, they did stuff, they got things done, and they learned more about adhd. And I think if nothing else, even if you don't have adhd, I hope my listeners have a little bit more compassion for those around them that do. Maybe Even small children who are constantly being corrected. I think the more we can talk about it and the more we can just, like, you know, pull back the curtain and say, listen, this is what's going on. The better everybody, like, just the better the whole ADHD community will get.
- [47:54]
B
Yep. I agree.
- [47:56]
A
I love it. Thank you. Okay, so let my listeners know how they can follow you because you're always giving such incredible advice online and where they can get your new book.
- [48:06]
B
Sure. So my main website, my books and podcasts website is adalynn ADHD book.com and, you know, the book is releasing on, like, May 7, and the audiobook is coming out mid May. I had a lot of fun doing that. I was definitely hoarse by the end of that, you know, last second day, let me tell you. But. But I think it'll be super cool. So it'll be on, you know, all the places that you buy books. So I'm really excited to get it out there and to see what people think about it.
- [48:37]
A
It. I'm excited. It's a very good book. So I appreciate it so much. I appreciate you sending me that copy. And I'll put links to that in the show notes down below if you want to get that now. And thank you so much for joining us, and thank you, everyone listening at home. I'm proud of you for all the stuff you got done today, and I'll see you next time.