Joe (11:36)

It's about the.

Cass (11:37)

The not feeling like someone sees us. It's. It's about feeling from the other side, too, that you're always being attacked. It's about feeling this crazy disconnect in our relationships. It's really about needs. Like the. The fighting, the arguing, the tension. All of that is because needs aren't being met. The need to be validated, the need to be appreciated, the need to be respected, the need to feel loved. And if we're not communicating those needs in. In a really effective way that isn't fighting, nothing's ever going to get better. So that's what we need to focus on. How can we communicate these needs without it causing a fight? Let's talk about. Go back to the Gottman method for a second and talk about bids. I don't feel like I'm great at giving A giving a bid to Joe.

Joe (12:32)

I.

Cass (12:33)

He's really good with me. He's like, oh, you want to watch sports? Obviously, the answer is a hard no. Joe, why are you even asking? But I'm not always. I'm such, like, an introvert. I'm always looking for ways to kind of be alone. So I got to work on that. I digress. But there are times where I know there's something that needs to get done. And I will say to him, hey, do you want to clean the kitchen with me tonight? And his response is, sometimes, yes, usually something else. I. I'm realizing while I'm recording this podcast, I'm so guilty of this. I communicate these bids to Joe through, like, logistics. Like, I need you to take out the garbage, and I need you to help me clean the kitchen, and I need you to, you know, pick up the dog poo outside, and I need you to blah, blah, blah, when what's really going on is I need to feel appreciated. I need to feel like we're a team in this. I need to feel a connection that you are my partner and that you want to take things off my plate because you notice that I've got too much on and you love me enough to. To just, in your own brain, actively look for ways to support me. Does that make sense? But I'm not saying that. I'm not saying that. I'm saying I need you to go pick up the dog poo or take out the trash. And. And what he's hearing is, what you've done today is not enough. You need to do more things. He's seeing as, like, this transaction of, like, I. I want something from him, and I'm demanding something from him, and I'm kind of being like his mother. Nobody wants to be a teenager being schooled by their. Scolded by their parents. And so he's not knowing what I'm actually saying underneath, because I'm not saying it. I'm not saying it. I'm just taskmasting, nagging. And if we would just stop and have real conversations, so much conflict could be avoided. I think what I'm really saying when I asked Joe to clean the kitchen with me or to help me do a chore is, I don't want to be alone in this. I don't want to hold all the burden here. I want you to walk with me. And when he declines and he says, no, I'm not doing that. I've done enough today. I feel rejected. I feel unloved, I feel unappreciated. Like, I. Yeah, it's. It feels like a slice on my heart. And he just thinks. He just doesn't want to wash the dishes. So I think what I really. Here, listen. This is, this is an epiphany for my brain up in here. I think what I need to do is when I'm asking for the task, I also need to ask for the emotional need underneath. Right. I need to say I'm feeling really overwhelmed. I've had such a long day. I would love to have your support to just spend 10 minutes and get this done so we can spend time together and relax and really connect. Like, what if I do this by myself? I'm going to feel unloved and disrespected. And I know that's silly and I know you love me, but that's how I feel. Could you spend 10 minutes, like, what if I was just really honest about the underlying need instead of just this? I want you to help me with the dishes. Yes. Like, task master approach. I think language does matter. I think having the right words and expressing them in a really calm and compassionate loving way creates a team. We are a team. Our family, our whole family is one big team. So we need to play like team players, not like a judge and a jury and a. Or the person's like, I make the rules and you do what I say. This, the manager and the subordinate kind of thing, but real team. And even if you're single, I. I feel like this can apply to so many different areas. This. This real communication. Definitely. If you're young and you have roommates, communicate with your roommates. Why aren't they doing their dishes? Why do they keep stealing your cookies? It's stressful when you're young and you move out and you're like sharing a space with another person. But it's this active communication of like the underlying need that I think is important. But I also see this with co workers. I even see this, like with my mom. She just called me yesterday and said, I need you to come shovel my driveway today. And at first I'm like, Lady, I work two jobs. I gotta work tonight till 10 o' clock after my job that gets done at 5. I'm not driving two hours to come shovel your driveway. But I bet what she really wanted was, I miss you. I need to connect with you. Can we find time to spend together? But instead of saying that, she was asking me to do a task so that she felt loved and appreciated. And this may be, I don't want to Say it's just a woman thing, but, but I think as women, we do tend to lean on this, like this, this task asking when we're not need asking. And when I say need, I mean emotional need, like underneath the task. What's the real why? Why are we wanting this help? What are we not getting if they don't help us? And what will we get if they, if they actually help us with the task? Am I making sense? I don't know if just expressing the need is actually going to solve all the problems and our spouse is going to be super helpful now. But I will say, after over 20 years of marriage, I've been with Joe for 24 years. He does not help enough with housework, period. I will say that all day. Oh, he doesn't, guys. He doesn't. But the more we talk about this in a, in a calm way, the more I realize I. I don't notice all the invisible labor that he does. It's so easy for us to see our own contributions and to diminish other people's contributions. We don't even like, I don't announce every time I empty the dishwasher. So when he's like, I emptied the dishwasher for you. I'm like, you want a cookie, buddy? I do it every day. But he also doesn't announce when he gets up at 6am and drives our daughter to school every day so that I can sleep in, or when it's freezing cold and we have two feet of snow, he goes out and he shovels the driveway, or when he does take out the trash, or when he does take care of things that are broken. And so he sees his contributions as being inflated over mine and I see mine as being inflated over his. And until we can really communicate the needs and even if he's like, I don't want to help with the dishes because I spent eight hours doing all of this today and I feel exhausted and I feel like I've more than done my fair share and this will feel blah, blah, blah, like, ha. Let, like, let's have those talks. Let's actually communicate when he does say, no, I don't want to, or I'll do it later. Let's talk about the why. Maybe there's a real reason why in this moment doesn't work for him and his own emotional well being. I've been to therapy recently and over the last few years I was like dipping my toe in the therapy water. And you know what's so annoying? I statements. So here's the thing, if you haven't been to therapy, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna save you the 150 bucks right now for on the session. The first 60 seconds of any kind of conflict, I guess, or even conversation matters. How you start that conversation, the first 60 seconds is usually how you end it. So if you're coming in with like, you never help me and you gotta do this and you, you left your clothes on the floor again and you blah, blah, blah, it, you're escalating, you're coming in at a place that's accusatory and you're coming in, in a place that's like negative and you're coming in a place that's like, you're battling. Okay? So of course it's just going to keep going there in that way. Your therapist will say to use I statements. So always start with I. I feel disrespected when I come home from working 12 hours and see your fricking dishes on the counter. But we start, tone it down, guys. I feel disrespected and unloved when I come home and feel like I have to clean up after everyone else and that I hold all the burden and I am the house's maid, that makes me feel bad about myself. These are all I statements. It's helpful because you're taking all the blame off of that person and you're just like expressing how you feel and how it's affecting you so that they are not defensive, which is you can't be defensive and trying to like validate yourself and have real communication at the same time. But if the person in the relationship that usually is on the defense is in the habit of always being on the defense, even if you come in with these I statements, even if you come in like, I'm feeling unloved because you never put your dirty clothes in the hamper, they're still going to feel defensive because they're, they're on, they're like defending their self worth. Right? They're seeing as that. So here's another exercise that a therapist. And I've shared this before, again, I'm saving you another $150. That was super duper helpful. My therapist I went to, I literally sat and was like, joe never helps me and I feel like the maid and it's not fair. And I work all day and then I also have to do all the housework. And he, he just, he disrespects me and he thinks that he's better than me and he thinks House beneath him. And she was like, whoa, this is a lot of, like, things that you're saying. What if your homework for the next seven days is every day to find instead of me saying, like, you never help me? I had to find three ways every day that he was helpful. And I had to write these down because it was about changing my mindset about the relationship and my, like, habit of thought of how I looked at him and how I saw things. Because when we are. When we tell ourselves he never helps, they never do anything. All we ever see is ways to support that. All we ever see is evidence that that is true. So I had to look for ways that he did help. In the first day was like, I guess he put his dish in the dishwasher. Woo. You know, it was so annoying to try to find it. But by the third and the fourth day, all I saw were these little things. He makes me a coffee every morning. And he. He, without asking, like, did these things for the kids, and he took the dog for a walk without. And, like, he did all these little things to help me. He made dinner almost every night this week so I didn't have to. He does all the grocery shopping. And suddenly by day seven, I think my husband is the hero. I'm, like, the luckiest woman in the world. And he did not change at all. I changed. And what was really fascinating about this exercise, obviously, I need to bring out a notebook and do this again. I fell back into old ways. Not the point. By the end of that week, Joe was doing more than ever because you no longer felt on the defensive. He. He felt validated for the things I was noticing. He felt like. He felt, like, good. He was like, oh, she's noticing and she's complimenting me, and I'm telling him what a great husband he is. He wanted more of that, so he was doing more of those things. And I call this the cookie method, because when I changed the way I saw him, he changed the way he showed up, period. So let's talk about I statements and how it can be really helpful. Just you saying, I feel overwhelmed. So just saying I feel overwhelmed. And then even clarifying that with, I'm not saying you don't do anything. I know you do a lot. All I'm saying is I feel overwhelmed, and I really need your help coming up with a plan or a system to make this easier to dig out of, this overwhelm that I feel I need your help. That's very different than I need you to do the dishes right now. We've talked a lot about the dishes in this podcast. If you're still feeling really angry about the dishes, again, it's not really just about the dishes. It's also about the mental load. If you're the person who carries all the just planning and task masking in your mind at all time. Like, you're the one who's, like, notices that the dishes are dirty and knows that you're almost at a dishwashing detergent and you have to go to the store and buy more. And you are the person who remembers the birthday parties and that you know your kid's best friend is allergic to peanuts. So when they're coming over this weekend, make sure that you don't have anything with peanuts in it. You're the one who remembers the the grocery list. You're the one who remembers everything. You're the one who notices the crumbs. You're the one who knows your teachers, your kids teacher's names and that it's loony license on Friday. The point is, of course, you're angry. You are carrying so much, and it might be time to offload some of that. And when we only offload a piece of that, when we say, can you help me make dinner? That's not taking the mental load off of you. So I want to give you an example of something that I did with Joe. I don't think he's too happy about it, but here we are. I was really overwhelmed because I was doing all the housework and the cooking and the grocery shopping and carrying the mental load for the kids and planning. And I was at a breaking point. And I just said to Joe, can you be in charge of dinner for, like, the next week? Can you be in charge of dinner? I need to have that off my plate. And he was like, okay, make me a list of what you want to have. And I was like, can you like, I trust your judgment. This is so, so good. Okay. When somebody is like, okay, but make me a list, it's like, I trust your judgment. I want you to own this. I need you to own this. And so what happened is Joe took over making dinner. But then Joe also had to get the supplies for dinner. You see where this is going? So then Joe became the person who was meal planning. Joe became the person who was cooking. But very quickly, Joe became the person who had to go to the grocery store because we didn't have what he wanted. Right. You see where I'm going here? Fast forward to a few years later. Joe does all the Grocery shopping. And Joe makes most of the dinners and it's lovely. And I'm the one now who's like, hey, I'll make dinner tonight because I know you play hockey later. What should I make? Like, should. Did you take anything out to defrost? Or like, what do I make for? Like, I'm that person now. And happened very quickly. We had that shift. And I know sometimes he'll say, oh, it'd be nice if you sometimes went to the grocery store. And in my head, I think it'd be nice if you sometimes clean the freaking toilet. But I don't. Friends. I say, yeah, I'm so grateful that you do that. Like, honestly. And you're so much better at cooking than I am. We are so lucky. Sometimes you also have to bite your tongue, my friend. But the point is, it's okay to offload the entire task to someone and yeah, they're gonna fail in the beginning. For a while, we had no cookies in the house, no chips. It was just kale and broccoli because Joe likes to be healthy and it was miserable and horrible. But he's adapted and now, you know, it's just, yeah, it's all working out. So here's something you can actually do this week, you can do it tonight that can have a really amazing impact on your relationships and your home. I want you to think about having a weekly family meeting, even just a meeting with your spouse, but the whole family's even great getting everyone together. And specifically when talking about your home, have everyone share one thing they're thankful for. Like one thing they appreciate. Whether it's, I appreciate that you help put away my laundry or I appreciate that Joe made dinner, or I appreciate that the kids, blah, blah, blah. The kids can say, I appreciate that you made Mac and cheese for dinner and didn't make me eat salad. You know, I don't know what it's going to be, but that's, that's a really good way to start with something really positive and make everyone feel appreciated and validated. Step two would be everyone gets a chance to say what felt hard that week in a non judging. No one's going to get defensive and try to. But I. Blah, blah, blah. We're just being honest about what felt really hard. It felt really hard for my daughter, I'm assuming to keep up with all of her homework because she had exams this week. Not just her homework, but like keeping her room tidy. And, and all of that was hard because she was so busy with exams. It was really hard for Joe this week because it would not stop snowing. And the poor guy constantly had to go out and snow, blow and shovel, like, express that in a really safe way. And the third step is everyone can talk about a problem, a problem that they have specifically with the home, and then we can together come up with a solution and hopefully have one person take ownership for that problem. Whether it's, we can never find our keys because the entranceway is such a disaster. Is there someone who can help solve that by committing to keeping it tidy or hanging a hook for the keys to go this week and making sure that they're always put back there for us? This is going to sound crazy, but a problem that my kids had, they share a bathroom and they were always fighting over the things in the bathroom because someone was always having a shower or using the bathroom. But if they needed an aspirin or a band aid or nail polish or extra towel or toilet paper, there was always someone in there. So we just relocated that stuff. So we eliminated that problem, but as a family. So these three steps, again, the step one is what do you appreciate or what are you thankful for? About your home or about the people in your home, what they've done? Number two is what felt really hard for you when it comes to your home. And step three is what is a problem we can solve and who's going to take ownership for that this week? So earlier in this podcast, I wanted you to fill out a paper, just like brain dump, some areas of your home that make you feel maybe a little resentful. Areas that you. You're placing the blame on someone else and it's stressing you out. So it's the pile of dirty laundry or the, the clutter that isn't getting decluttered, whatever it is. And now I want you to see if any of those things on your paper are system related. And here's what I mean by that. I have had a bazillion clients say to me, my kids never pick up their toys. I'm so sick of having toys all over the living room. My kids never clean up. And when I go into their home, I go into the living room. And first thing I think is, I couldn't clean this up either because there's no place for it to go. Like, where is the go place? Do you have clear shelving and bins and baskets with picture labels? Do you have in a way that is within 10ft of the mess? Or are you expecting your small children to lug that stuff all the way to Their bedroom and just shove it under their bed. Like, what does away really look like? Does it work with their organizing style? And is it clear and easy to use? If the answer is no, your children aren't the problem. Your house is the problem. The. It's not that your kids are messy and lazy. The house is not set up for them to have success, period. And I also see this with spouses. He leaves his stuff everywhere. Look at all his stuff. And he's got tools, and he's got. And I'm using. Look at me. What did I say in the beginning of this podcast? Joe comes in the door and he just piles all the stuff he wants to deal with. But does he have a place for this to go? Did I help him carve out an actual home for this stuff? No, I didn't. So how can I expect. Like, what. What do I expect here? He has to do the job immediately now, or what's the alternative? Not at all. That's crazy pants, right? That's nuts. So just giving a basket a project box, clearing out a shelf in a closet and saying, this is yours, or, you know, give him a whole room. My friend Joe has an actual office in this home. And before, his office was in the living room. And I would hide the papers and I would. I was always. It was crazy. Like, of course he felt disrespected because I wasn't allowing him to have a place of honor for his stuff in my home. It's our home. And sometimes as women, I'm just gonna say, we sometimes see ourselves as the boss of the house, and we sometimes tack on our spouse as, like, this little after thing. And we're like, well, you can sleep in half the bed. So they got stuff, too. They got hobbies. They have things they want to have room for. So make sure when you're looking at your list, you're like, my husband never puts his blobbity bloop in the blobbity bloop. Does he have his own private space for that to go? That's clear. That's easy. Does he also have equal square footage for his stuff that you have in this home? And if the answer is no, it's a system problem, not a spouse problem. I have to take a second to thank today's podcast sponsor, Caraway. I switched to caraway cookware, and I am very impressed. My favorite things about them are they are so heavy. Like, they're solid, heavy duty. And I can fry and then immediately put that pan or pot into the oven to finish cooking. I feel like Martha Stewart. Plus they're incredibly easy to clean and of course they're non toxic. If you still have those old Teflon pans, one scratch is releasing thousands of micro particles into your body. It is time to make the switch. Caraway's cookware set is a favorite for a reason and it can save you up to $190 versus buying them individually. Please visit carawayhome.com clutterbug10 and you can take an additional 10% off your next purchase. This deal is exclusive for our listeners, so go to carawayhome.com clutterbug10 or use the code clutterbug10 at checkout. Caraway Non Toxic Kitchenware Made Modern now it's time for my favorite part of the podcast. Talk to Cass and we have a question from Joe.

Joe (35:54)

Hi Cass, I discovered you on YouTube a while ago and then I started listening to your podcast a couple years ago. I decided to start from the very beginning and I've been working my way through and sort of borrowing your motivation as I've been going along. I just want to say thank you for your commitment to it because I know your life is very busy, but because you showed up to doing it, that meant that I showed up to doing my house. So initially I was only allowed to listen to your podcast if I was decluttering and it became a habit. I would listen to your podcast and I'd do something in the house. So fast forward a couple years. Our house is much better now. We've got rid of so much stuff, but we are in the middle of a home renovation now. It has been going on for some time, but now we've got to our bedroom which means that stuff is everywhere. We are sleeping on a mattress in the floor in our spare room. And then other stuff from our bedroom has gone sort of been dumped into our smallest spare room and we have actually nicknamed that room the junk room. I'm sure there's still stuff in that junk room that can go but it's sort of mingled in with stuff that has a purpose that will eventually go back in our bedroom. So it's very overwhelming and I just do not like going in there. The rest of the stuff that's sort of dotted around the house has a purpose. It's just out. We have an old Victorian house which is lots of rooms but they're smaller so everything won't fit into the run room. Now I'm pretty sure I'm a ladybug and that means I Like things away. But it's very disheartening when you do some cleaning or whatever it is. And it never quite feels clean or tidy because there's a box there with stuff that has to be built for the room or there's a tool there that can't go back in the shed because it still needs to be used. Now, for instance, every time I go up my stairs, we have a small landing at the top and the bottom, but you have to squeeze past the chest of doors that's at the bottom of the stairs. And then at the top of the stairs there's a dismantled bed from our bedroom which can't fit anywhere else in the house. But I have to look at it every single day. And sadly, because of health, finances and life, it's been dragging on for a few months now. And I just, just don't feel like I want people over because it's, it's embarrassing with all the clutter everywhere and it's just end up stuff shuffling where you'll move something out the way to make it presentable for someone else to come, but you'll only end up moving it back because it's not practical where you've shoved it in order to make it look presentable. And I just wondered if you could help. How do you navigate house under renovation and still make it feel homely when you've got things everywhere? I love a house, but at the moment all I see when I look around is clutter, which is sort of shouting at me. A to do list of what I need to do. At which point all I want to do is just either is just go and eat junk and watch tv. So I'm not sure if anyone else is in the same situation or can relate to this, but I'm struggling.

Cass (39:19)

Oh, Jo, my heart's breaking for you. Because as a ladybug, this must be killing you to just have everything everywhere. And it's so. I feel, I feel your stress. And I will say that this is not forever. I've been through renovations too. How my relationship lasted through a renovation is a miracle. But I have two bits of advice for you. And the first is you need one room with solid boundaries. It's a clutter free zone, a place where you can go and actually relax. That feels beautiful. That feels like it, it recharges your soul. And I think that should be your living room. I really do. And you're just like, tools are not allowed in here. Like be hardcore on that. That's going to be helpful. The second thing is I really actually would love for you to go into the junk room and declutter. And I would like you to stop calling it the junk room and start calling it the renovation room. And this is where the tools go when you're not using them. This is where the extra things that you're going to need for the. The bedroom or the things that you're working on go. Maybe the bed won't fit in there in the chest of drawers, and that's okay. But all those little extra Bibbidi bobs, they belong in the renovation room. And this way, it's contained to one spot. And in order to make that happen, you will have to declutter the things that are just in the junk room because they're mixed in, but it will be worth it. And then that way, if your bedroom's done in a month or in six months from now, you still have peace and you still have everything contained. Nothing's getting lost, and you're not stuff shuffling. You're truly ladybugging in, like, the ultimate fashion, but making one room the giant drawer you're shoving and hiding in. And that's okay. It's not forever. It's just for now, but. But it's a priority. So get in there and declutter and make that the renovation room. Now we have a dinosaur from Suli. I'm so excited. I love dinosaurs.

Suli (41:21)

Hi, Cass, this is Suli Rhymes with Julie, longtime listener, semi regular commenter, and fellow brain a la Jessica McCabe. I have a dinosaur for you that I'm sure you're going to just love. Backstory is I live in a condo that originally belonged to my mother. She passed away in 2013. Because of my own health issues, I was not able to really start decluttering with the aid of my therapist until 2021 and about four and a half years into it now, doing a pretty good job. The last big task I have to do is the relatively small storage room I have. But, oh, the things I have learned about my mother from doing this. Mostly, she was a pack rat. She was not a hoarder. She was a pack rat. There is a distinction because she knew how to put everything away. She just didn't like to get rid of things. The icing on the cake, I guess I'll call it, are a few things that I found that she moved from the house I grew up in into the condo where I live now in 1996. And they're items that were sent to her by her favorite cousin, for whom I'm named The first was a print that I still have. I decided I wanted to keep it. It's a Swedish artist. I just need to get it framed. Haven't had a chance to go out and find a frame for it yet. The other thing was a mux I came across a few months ago, a dress from my cousin. It would have been in the late 1960s. Mind you, we're in. This was in 2025. It was a little can't wreath, candle holder type thing. I'm not sure if it has a specific name, but it was. It was a candle holder. You put it on. You put it on the table. It's got. It's got like a garland. It's got, like, fall. It's got, like, pine cones on it from the 1960s that she never used. Candles were in this box as well. Very yellow. I thought for a minute, because it's the cousin, it's the person I'm named for, I would try using it. I left the thing out of the box and it just falls apart. So not only is this the reminder that you can't hold on to everything, but if you have something special to you, use it. Appreciate everything you do. Bye.

Cass (43:45)

You're right. Don't save it for someday. Right? I. How many times have people, like, got fancy perfume and then never sprayed it because they were waiting for a special occasion? Man, every night after my shower, I take my special, I don't even know, hundreds of dollars. Joe spent so much. It was my big Christmas gift one year, and I put it all over myself. And he says, you smell nice. But it's. Isn't it kind of expensive to wear to bed? And I'm like, I can get hit by a bus tomorrow, babe. Use it. Enjoy it. Life short, smell, fabulous. So, yeah, don't just keep things in boxes. Use the china that you got on your wedding. It's gorgeous. Use it for every day. Use the silverware. Why do we have special silver? And also, if you never use it because you don't want to polish it, donate that crap. Like, use the stuff, don't store it. I don't. Not good at math. But from the 60s, that's. That's 80 year. 80 years. I'm bad at math. Wait, 60 plus 20. Wait, 60s. Wait. 40, right? 40 plus 60 is 40 plus 60 years.

Suli (44:58)

There.

Cass (44:59)

Math is hard. Last but not least, we have a question from Anonymous. Hi, Cass.

Anonymous (45:05)

I appreciate you so much. I love the videos you make. I just came across you this past year, and I would love any feedback you have about how to handle the emotions that overwhelm me when I'm trying to sort my paper. You have an awesome system for sorting paper. I love the system. I'm trying to work the system, but I'm still working on decluttering and, and creating that system for my paper because I have multiple large boxes filled with paper. And every time I try to spend, you know, 20, 30, 45 minutes just sorting paper, I get so emotionally overwhelmed and it happens so fast. I don't know why, but I get overwhelmed with like, do I keep this or not? If I keep it, which category does it go in? It doesn't even match any of these categories. Or sometimes I will get like very sentimental about something that reminds me of a time in my life. This is so. It seems so ridiculous to me, but it's not the system. I love your system. I really want to use the system. It is how emotional I get when I'm touching these silly pieces of paper. I want to be able to get through more of my paper before I shut down and put all of it back and then just, you know, see that very little progress I made each time. So any feedback you have for how to keep my emotions calm when I'm doing the hard work would be appreciated.

Joe (46:30)

Thank you.

Cass (46:32)

Listen, Anonymous, I want to come to your house and help you because you are over complicating it. I'm going to take a guess here and say you're a bee or a cricket and you're a little perfectionist. So right off the bat, if you are coming across a piece of paper that is making you feel sentimental and emotional because it's bringing up a memory, that means it goes in memory. You know what I mean? That we have the paper sort. It's called a five sort method. And here they are. They're memory, action, short term, long term and reference. I'm going to break it down real fast because I could talk about this all day and I'll probably. Maybe we do something just on this. But the point is memory is anything that makes you feel sentimental. You're like, oh, I want to keep this because it brings back memories. It goes in memory period. Action are things you have to do right now or else kind of thing. So you have to pay this bill, you have to mail this thing back. You have to do something. This isn't like the flyer right though or the whatever. It isn't some. It's like I have to. This is super duper duper important. Short term, I see this as things that I may or May not need for taxes or maybe there's a dispute over a bill. Basically, I put everything in short term if it's not a memory and it's not action. And then one time a year, I go through the short term and I'll take out contracts and I'll take out things for taxes. I'll take out things that I want to save, Save for at least seven years and I'll shred the rest. I start fresh with an empty short term. Some people don't even have a short term, and that's fine, too. Long term, again, is things that you want to keep for at least seven years. So think forever. McEver you in the States? I don't know, with medical stuff maybe. Cool. I don't know. You do you boo. And last but not least is reference. Those are things like recipes or you. I don't know, you went to a conference and they gave you a bunch of papers and you're probably never going to read them. But maybe reference the flyers. You might want to see if steak's on sale. It's probably not because beef's really expensive. Reference. Reference. And that's it. Those are the categories. You are overthinking it. And seriously, if you're like, I don't know, make a new one, make a sixth category. I don't care. But don't make 20. Don't make. Don't make a. Like, keep it simple. You got this. Wish I could help you in person because I would just like.

Suli (49:04)

We would.

Cass (49:04)

We would. We would tear it up, man. Thank you so much for hanging out with me. I hope you're thinking about your relationships a little bit different and I hope you have that brain dump that you came up with and you've identified different resentment areas in your home and thought about how we can either have boundaries, have real conversations with someone, expressing our needs instead of our demands, or our tasks. And how can we adapt the systems so we. We're not blaming the spouse, we're instead blaming the system and come up with a real solution that works for everyone. Hope you're feeling inspired. Love hanging out with you guys and I'll see you next time.