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Clutterbug - Real-Life Hacks and Tips to Declutter, Organize and Clean your Home Fast
A Psychologist's Guide to Overthinking (and How To Stop!) | Clutterbug Podcast #326
00:54:49
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- [00:00]
A
I don't want to say mental breakdown, but did I have a mental breakdown? I was manic. Not the good kind of manic that I sometimes get when I'm really excited about something and hyperfocused. No, no friends. The like the world is ending. Manic. Why? Sleep deprivation. Ruminating thoughts and just way too much on my plate. That's the thing. So I was laying in bed at night just stressing of all the things because I'm so far behind that I have to do Monday for work, that it's six o' clock in the morning and I still haven't fallen asleep, which is not help. And I've accomplished nothing but being stressed. And then I just pulled the plug on my life. There is no YouTube video last week. Why? Because I pulled the plug on my life. But sometimes, maybe that's exactly what we need. And we're talking about that and so much more today. How to deal with your overactive brain, how to really relax. Like, not like I'm going to relax, but like actually relax. And also that leads to being more productive in the end. So incredible interview. Stay tuned for that. But just like always, you are not allowed to just passively listen or watch this. I want you to take action. I want you to do something small that you're going to be just proud that you got it done. Maybe it's finishing the dishes, maybe it's putting away that load of laundry or vacuuming. When is the last time you dusted the top of your kitchen cabinets? Let's do it crappy, let's do it fast and then let's move on to something else. The best thing you could do is declutter because less stuff is less work. It's less stuff to think about and it just makes life easier. What if you tackle something today? And a Bonus, you find 10 things to leave your home forever too. Okay, you ready? This is going to be an incredible interview with Dr. Guy Winch. Today we are talking to Dr. Guy Winch. He is the author of the book Mind Over Grind and he has real practical strategies to stop us from always thinking about work or the work we need to do. Stop thinking about all the little tasks like the chores, the laundry, all the decluttering you have to do, the things on your to do list you have not checked off that you just think about, when am I going to actually do that? When you're supposed to be sleeping. He's going to show us how to turn that all off, how to actually deal with those ruminating thoughts and how to enjoy moments without thinking about work and. And trust me, this is a life changing interview. Welcome guy, to the Clutterbug podcast. I need you so badly right now in my life. I'm so thrilled to have you here
- [02:41]
B
and I am thrilled to chat with you.
- [02:43]
A
I've been watching, I watched your TED talks, I've been watching you on social media, man. You're speaking my language because I have ruminating thoughts. And I don't know, I don't want to blame perimenopause, but I also thinking it's worse now. It is the worst thing when you can't sleep, you can't turn your brain off. And even when I am doing enjoyable things with my family, there's always the thoughts of work in the background. Tell me, did you have this, Is this why you decided to write your book Mind Over Grind?
- [03:18]
B
It's absolutely one of the reasons. And I think anyone who's dedicated to their jobs or who works hard has ruminative thoughts about work. And boy, talk about mental clutter. I mean, this is between mental clutter and mental hoarding because you kind of repeat the same thoughts over and over again and it's like, let's just make some order there because it's taking up valuable bandwidth. And the interesting thing about rumination, it's defined as maladaptive form of self reflection. In other words, it's actually harmful. You're not getting anywhere, you're not figuring anything out. You're spinning like an emotional hamster wheel. So it's really something we need to be more aware of and catch and do something about when it happens, especially because of the workplace.
- [04:04]
A
And what's so fascinating is when I'm at work, I'm not having these thoughts. I'm just doing the thing. It's when I'm done and I should be relaxing or sleeping or enjoying something else that my brain just won't shut off. What is, is this common and what is on?
- [04:23]
B
It's very common. What happens is when you have upsetting things happen during the day, you know, irritating things, insulting things. I mean, everything happens to us in the workplace these days. But anything unpleasant of that nature, your brain needs to make sense of it, it needs to try and understand it. But it gets caught in a loop where it's not trying to understand it, it's just replaying it and then it's remembering other times that you were insulted and other times that your co worker said this thing that annoyed you or your boss at you with that look that was so dismissive or this upsetting thing happened, or this opportunity got by you and you just start spinning around and around so you're actually not figuring something out. Your brain just goes in a loop. And the trick with rumination is to catch it when you're just repeating the same thoughts over and over again. And then to actually give your brain some closure by turning it into something that's a problem that can be solved or an action that can be taken, or an intention that can be documented. You know, our brains love calendars. So if you say, put in your calendar, figure out tomorrow how to deal with the annoying coworker, you might be able to let go of that in the evening. But you have to give your brain closure because it needs it and it's spinning around without getting it. That's what rumination is about.
- [05:42]
A
I'm going to share a story with you that just happened this past weekend. We are a little bit behind in my business just because we had some big videos that we were producing and so we were behind eight Ball and then things weren't working out. And I'm like, well, it's got to get done and I've got to do this and what should it. And this has to be scheduled here. And then, oh, my gosh, we have this ad that we have to film. And I am so stressed about the things I have to do on Monday morning. Just thinking about, how is this all going to work? And oh my gosh, what am I going to do? It was six o' clock in the morning. I still hadn't slept. My brain just wouldn't turn off and I just had like. Because there was nothing I could fix in that moment. I know what you're saying. It's like if I had an actual plan, I was just like, ah. And I just literally had a little meltdown. And I was like, that's it, we're taking a week off. And I immediately made that decision and fell asleep because. Because it was like, I just. My brain, it was. You're so right. It was stuck in this loop with no resolution and therefore I couldn't turn it off. Now, perhaps pulling the plug and just saying, nope, we're just doing nothing wasn't a helpful strategy. Do you have strategies that can help those other people who have these thoughts that they just can't turn their brain off?
- [07:02]
B
Yes. Well, first of all, it was a helpful strategy because, I mean, first of all, the proof is in the pudding because you reached a decision about something again, your brain. You know, I always like to say you know, like. Like we are smart mind. Not always. In other words, you can trick it. You know, it's a brain hack. You gave it closure about something. When you said, I'm taking a week, what you were saying was, I'm not dealing with this right now and I'll deal with it later. And your brain was like, okay, we'll deal with it later. You sounded very determined and your brain could tell, so it shut. Look, but what. This is what happens to a lot of people. You start thinking about the one thing that you're behind the eight ball on, and then you start remembering that, oh, and then there was this other thing, and now there's this other thing. Now some of the things I'm imagining for you or for some other people in that situation that you are piling on at 3, 4 in the morning will not as urgent as the thing for Monday. But it was just listing all the things, and now it really starts to feel overwhelming. But the thing to do in that moment is to say, okay, the most urgent thing is the thing on Monday. I will wake up 15 minutes earlier and try and do this at like midnight rather than at 6, but I'll wake up 15 minutes early and take care of that thing. And I'm going to schedule another 15 minutes to figure out the other things later that day. But the really one urgent thing is this thing. I'll wake up earlier to figure it out or let me just reach some resolution about this one thing that's really the urgency instead of just piling on with it. That's the clutter that happens, right? That's where one thing kind of brings on the other. So that's one thing that you need to do. The other thing that you need to do is if you remember when we were little kids or when you have kids, little kids, you start getting them ready for bed an hour before at least the lights come down, all the tones become softer, everything slows down. Because we're trying to quiet their brains so they can fall asleep. Because they're little engines that are thinking all the time. We're not that different. We also need before bed to not be thinking about work at all, to be thinking about other things, to be engaged in our lives, whatever that might be for you. Like if you're thinking about work right before bed, you're not going to sleep that well. And it's by you, I mean everyone. So, so, so you really need that buffer zone to kind of bring it down before bedtime, to kind of come out of fight or Flight to stop being so activated, to stop being at work. Because if you're thinking about work at 11 o' clock at night, you're at work and you shouldn't be at work at 11 o' clock at night. So those things will help too.
- [09:41]
A
That's so good. And, and for my listeners who a lot of them perhaps are retired or they're like stay at home parents, there's other forms of work that I think aren't necessarily your 9 to 5 because there's even times on the weekend where I'm like, oh, I didn't get all the vegetables, I planted seeds started that I was going to do and I still have the dishes and I didn't finish decluttering that and oh my gosh, I gotta bake that cake for the party on Saturday and I forgot to send it with all the invitations. And I'm, and my brain, and I think so many of my listeners are feeling the same way. Whether we're sleeping or we should just be watching a movie or we should just be spending time with our spouse and enjoying it. Instead our brain is running with all the things we should be doing which are ruminating thoughts are, it's easy to say, like stop thinking them. But I love that you say finding closure. Do you have other practical strategies that we can do to kind of help catch these thoughts and maybe put them where they belong, which is somewhere else?
- [10:44]
B
Yes. Okay. So if you're, if you're actually thinking about things, you know, in a problem solving way or that you're thinking in your head and that is separate from what happens viscerally to us when you're ruminating. And by the way, summer's coming, people can ruminate about, oh, the barbecue I have to put on and I don't have how many, how much barbecue sauce do I need to get? And that can, you know, it doesn't matter what it is, it's the thing that you're just obsessing about and it's not in a very useful way. And when you're obsessing about it, what you're thinking is you're feeling it viscerally because you're feeling stressed, you're feeling upset, you're feeling troubled, and wherever you feel that for some people, it's the tension in the shoulders, it's the crunching in the stomach, it's the tension in the chest. It can be different things for people. But if you're feeling it viscerally, that's a sign that you're probably spinning and it's always good to catch whatever it is. By the time you've had that thought for the third time, you know something's not. You're not moving forward, catch it, or by the time. And we also, like, we surf on rumination. So, like, again, you'll start to think about, oh, and there was that time where I did the barbecue a year ago, and that was a disaster. We ran out of buns. And then you remember that. And then you think about, like, all the other. Other events that, you know. Like, it was the breakfast and the blueberries, and, you know, they asked for blueberries and oh, my goodness, like, it doesn't matter what the thing is, but you'll start to surf on it. And again, now you're so far away from where you started and what you're actually troubled about, but you'll feel really upset and activated. It'll feel like, oh, there's something really bad happening that I need to resolve here. There's not. It's your mind going awry, but you have to kind of bring it back. So just remind yourself. Okay, define the problem. Step number one. It's amazing how we don't do that. We try and solve a thing without defining what we're actually solving. What are you worried about? Is it really the amount of barbecue sauce you need? Or is it that five people have an RSVP so you don't know how much you need? Or is it that Samantha who always. You always RSVP her stuff, but she has an RSVP to yours yet. And why does she keep doing that to you? Like, what is it that you're really. What is it that you really need?
- [12:55]
A
She hates me. Why does she hate me?
- [12:56]
B
Hopefully not. She's just. She's just busy and overwhelmed like us. No, but. But I'm saying, like, figure out, define the problem, and then solve.
- [13:04]
A
That's really good.
- [13:05]
B
And a second thing that you can do is you can reframe. Because ruminations are fueled by the emotion that we have about them, by the distress that they create. So if you can reframe it to make it less distressing, you lower the urge to ruminate. So again, I'm keeping it right at barbecue because I started and I'm just gonna keep going with the barbecue metaphor. So, you know, if it's about the barbecue, be like, you know what? People really are there for the company. People really haven't seen each other for a while. It's gonna be so nice. No one's gonna care if there was this much or that Much of the barbecue sauce. Remember what the actual goal here is. Remember what people are really gathering for, you know, that kind of thing. Or if it's about work, like, you know what, one project can be a little bit delayed. Maybe I won't get like the YouTube video won't be perfect or it might come out half an hour late and people are waiting for it. But it's not going to be the end of the world. You know, that, that kind of thing, like you, you reframe it so that it feels less activating. That will also help you let put the thing aside.
- [14:11]
A
That's so good. And I do like how you, you talk a lot about the problem solving. And sometimes the problem solving can literally just be perhaps to put on the calendar. I'm going to think about this, this day at this time that can close that open loop in our brain because we've made a decision, even though we haven't made a decision on the thing stressing us out, we've like put it in a compartment with a condition.
- [14:38]
B
Studies show that if you delay, worry like that and you put it in your calendar like that, it works. But only if you really do have the intention to do that at that time. So you know, you have to be honest with yourself. No, I really, I do need to tackle it. I will tackle it at that time. If you're sincere there, your brain will go like, you know what, I believe you. If you're not like, oh, I'm just going to put it in the calendar. But who knows, your brain will be like, maybe you need to think about that somehow.
- [15:04]
A
This is so good. Okay, so I'm gonna throw a big question at you. You're gonna solve all my listeners problems because something that they ruminate a lot about is the mess in the home. It's something they can't just problem solve today. They have clutter, years of clutter. I know because I've been there. And dishes stacked and they're behind on laundry. And there's what's more important? What should I do first? And we lay in bed or even when we should be resting or enjoying something fun. All of these. What's most important? What do I go do first? I have to do this. Oh my gosh, when am I going to find time? What's a way specifically with the clutter and the mess and they want to just take back control of their home that they can stop those ruminating thoughts? Do you have advice?
- [15:49]
B
Yes. And first of all, I'm going to add another situation into that Which I hear about all the time from the people I work with. You moved and you're among boxes a from a month or two before because. And then a month or two or six months after. So first of all, one thing I recommend is it might be clutter all around you. You need one zone, one area that is not. Because that's where you can do better thinking. And so try and first create a space where again just you can sit in a chair that's angled a certain way where, where you look out there is only like some, you know, like paintings on the wall or photographs on the thing. It's not. It doesn't look cluttered from that vantage point because that will be your peaceful place. That's a place where you can get a break. Because what clutter does, it activates us. It creates disquiet for a lot of people, not for all. Some people, you know, if it's too tidy, they don't relate. I don't relate to those people because I'm of the obvious. And the other, you know, like, I need, like, I don't know if people can see behind me. It's pretty neat. And I didn't do that because I was going to be interviewed by you and I'm like, I'd better tidy up. This is how I am. So I'm very much in the thing of like I need that peace and quiet to be able to concentrate well or to work well. So a create a little paradise, a little oasis of non clutter. And that doesn't have to be a big space because based on the angle where you can just sit and kind of breathe and take in, you know, the thing. And then what you need to do is again, when you have an overwhelming goal, it's going to be overwhelming to think about. The resolution is always to break down the overwhelming goal into smaller manageable goals. And so you need to have a plan of action. You can't just look at a whole house, apartment room, whatever it is, closet, garage, attic, whatever the clutter is. Basement. You can't look at that. It's going to feel overwhelming. It has to have a plan of attack. And so you have to spend some time like what do you do first? What's easiest to get to? And you have to make those mini goals, ones that are reinforcing if the mini goals are too big, that's going to be exhausting. We groove on moving forward, we get motivated when we're actually making progress. So the mini goal should be one that can be accomplished in an Afternoon, say, or a weekend if you're really ambitious, but really an afternoon that bite size, it can be a corner, it can be a shelf, it can be a box, it can be whatever it is. But if you have the full list of. Let me just start with this room, let me just start with this area. Break it down. Okay. And I'm going to so have the mini goals. And then the other thing you need to have is when you're doing them, because it's terrific that you have a list of goals, but if you haven't decided when those are going to be tackled, you're going to get demoralized because time has passed and you haven't. So commit yourself to doing it. And that's why they should be bite size. You're not committing to something that's, you know, like too difficult. But commit to when you do each of those goals and you can commit one at a time. Okay, I'm going to do this one and then before I stop, you know, when I'm done with that one, I will commit to the next one before I put that aside. So there's always a continuity and a rhythm that you go from one mini project to the next, to the next, to the next.
- [19:08]
A
Yes. This is so good. And when I'm thinking back to my messiest, this is the strategy that helped me. I committed to. I'm gonna just tidy for 15 minutes a night. And I put an alarm at 8pm every night. And just doing that meant that my mind, I'm like, oh, there's clutter everywhere. But I have a plan. And so it was small, like 15 minutes a day. And I wasn't accomplishing and finishing a task. But it did help with that concrete, very doable plan that I can't back out of because 15 minutes. I could do anything for 15 minutes. It did give me the peace in my mind. I love this so much. Okay, so can I just say about
- [19:49]
B
the 15 minutes because I want to point something out to people. I think it's really, really clever what you did and I want to point out how they can use that. You didn't go by this amount, you went by time. I'm going to do a block of time. 15 minutes is sufficient. But you can't fail because as long as you spend the 15 minutes, no matter how far you got, you succeeded. It's motivating. It was really, really clever. And people can use either like the actual task, how much they want to do, or the time unit. And you can't fail on the Time unit.
- [20:21]
A
I love this. Okay, so, so good. Now we're going to bring it back to the work and the stress. Because unlike that, I guess I could use the same strategies. I work from home, and so I have a hard time, even though it's in the basement. I go upstairs and I'm working. Done. I also, my job is home content. So every pile of laundry that has to get put away, the sink of dirty dishes, everything to me is still, like, reinforcing. Like, I can't turn my brain off. I'll even be watching a movie, and I'm like, oh, that's so good. I could use that in an upcoming video. Like, it's just constant.
- [20:56]
B
And.
- [20:57]
A
And it's. There's no real work home separation because even when I'm out with my family and say, we're shopping, I'm like, oh, I should pick this up for the video and what else do I need for that upcoming thing? And let's. I know we're going out to dinner, but let's stop at the dollar tree on the way so I can pick up some things for that I need for this next video. And I'm laying in bed at night with my husband, and I'm on Facebook, Marketplace, buying furniture for an upcoming video. And it's. It's so interlaced that there's no. There's no place to get away from it. And perhaps even if home is the job that someone's trying to tackle, how do you get away from that when you're in your home?
- [21:36]
B
Look, I also work from home. I. You really have it tough because it's what your home looks like and how to declutter it and how to make, you know, how to create more organizations. That is your work. And so there's no way you can go in home that. That's not relevant to. And there's barely anywhere you can go outside of the home or what you can see in, because homes are featured and areas and, you know, like, it applies everywhere. Now I'm a psychologist. The human mind applies everywhere, too. I could look at a movie and go, like, you know, how I would diagnose that person? Or, you know, that couple should do, you know, like, I could. I really try and have that separation because it is kind of important to have a separation because you want to. There's a certain responsibility and burden that comes with it, right? Because, like, you're the expert, so you have to have the expertise turned on all the time. That can be a burden where it's not a Burden. When you're watching something and you get inspired, you get an idea like, oh, that could be a good idea. I'm going to separate that out because that is not stressful or taxing. That's actually exciting. Opposite, though, is like, let's stop by this on the way to dinner so I can do such and such. That's not useful lying in bed on Facebook Marketplace to buy furniture for a video that's doing work right before bed, not what you should be doing right before bed, because that gets your mind activated. Look, you like what you do. You wouldn't have been as successful as you are if you didn't. So you can't do it muted. Everything is a little activating. You don't want to be activated before bed. So there needs to be that boundary of my goal before bed is to deactivate, to engage my parasympathetic nervous system, the calm. It's to do deep breathing or box breathing or meditation. It's to literally be someone else. I don't have to be that person all the time. I need a break because it's a responsibility that's heavy and, you know, especially when it's chronic. So, like, I need, you know, I need to be someone who doesn't care about what I see around me. At times I need to switch it off so that I really don't care, you know, and at times. And that's not going to be easy all the time. But before bed, that would be useful. And at other times of the day, when you're off to have dinner, focus on, you know, our mind needs goals. And so, like, if there's just a void of. Don't think about. We're passing by the furniture store. Don't look, don't look. We're on our way to dinner. That's not going to work. What you can do is think about. Here's what I'm looking forward to in this dinner. I really want to chat with these friends, which I haven't seen for a while, and hear what's going on with them. And, oh, I want to see pictures of their kid because they just had to. And I love that restaurant because they have, like, get into whatever it is that you're doing, be present and kind of set the goal of getting into that. That'll keep your mind off the other stuff.
- [24:38]
A
That's so good. And I'm thinking of my listeners right now who perhaps are ruminating over all the things that they didn't get to in the to do lists and the things with their home because if they're listening to the Clutterbug podcast, they want to take control of their home and they can use this same technique. So maybe they're not cleaning right up until before they go to bed. Maybe they're not putting away laundry.
- [25:02]
B
Please know right?
- [25:03]
A
Like please no. This is such good insight because I don't think we are seeing the correlation between that is also work. And if these are the things that are stressing you out, these are the things that we need the boundaries that we're not doing around our sacred time, which is bedtime relaxation time. So are you intimate time.
- [25:26]
B
Let's add that in and let's use the word duties because it's a little less loaded. These are more duties. Folding laundry is a duty. It's work. It's not. We can debate it's a duty. It's an obligation. It's a to do you need. Can we have an hour with no to do's before bed? Yes.
- [25:45]
A
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- [25:52]
B
get the best of both worlds.
- [25:55]
A
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- [26:28]
B
Yeah. No cheating.
- [26:29]
A
Which no cheating. We're not thinking about. Oh, this is powerful. I think this is something that I had not considered and I know a lot of my listeners have not considered. We are doing things right up till we go to bed, maybe even under the guys. Like we'll feel better about sleeping if we just get one more thing done. But then we're in a different mode. We're in like activation, problem solving go mode when we need to be in calming. Oh, this is very helpful. Do you think your environment. Then we can take that a step further. Are you seeing other ways that we can make subtle shifts to our environment and boundaries and limits that can help with these ruminating thoughts?
- [27:13]
B
Yeah. And again, it's not just about the ruminating the ruminating thoughts because you can be excited about what you're doing and let's just get one more task in and that will be great. And you're not Ruminating, but you're activated, you're doing duty, you're switched on. And it's going to be much harder to sleep when you. It's very difficult to go from switched on to switched off. You know, it takes us a while. This is a serious engine we have in our head. The brain is a serious engine. It doesn't cool down like that. You need to give it a while to do that. I always use this example. It's really stupid, but I'm going to say it anyway. You know, I used to love these nature documentaries because you would see this gazelle being pursued by a lion running for her poor life so she doesn't get eaten alive. And running and running and running and running. And then the lion veers off and two seconds later the gazelle is munching on shrubs like it's happy hour at the salad bar. And they seem completely calm. And animals have that real ability to kind of go from switched on in the most, you know, life preserving way to calm almost instantaneously. We do not. We don't. We need a much longer time to go from switched on mentally to switched off to calm to serene. Because that's what we want to be when we're trying to go into bed and to de stress because our nervous system is activated all day. When you're thinking about these things, that's how burnout happens. It doesn't just happen at work, it happens at home too. When we are constantly switched on and activated. We need to physiologically and psychologically get a break from activation, a break from being switched on, a break from duties. So you need to do that for your physical, mental health and well being as well. Give yourself at least an hour. And I'm being minimal in the hour there. At least an hour where you're not activated, where your systems can relax because your body responds very differently when it's switched on versus when it's switched off. All the mechanisms work differently because switched on means your body is ready for fight or flight. It's ready for something intense to happen. Whether you're folding laundry or getting something, it doesn't make the distinction. Well, so you need to give it a break. It's important. Think of it that way. I need to give my mind and my body a break for my health.
- [29:40]
A
This is a way of looking at things that I hadn't before. And I'm thinking of my really good friend who says every time she comes home from work she sits in the car, the driveway for 15 minutes and just listens to Relaxing music. And I always thought that I'm like, didn't you. Couldn't you do that on the drive home? And now I'm realizing, yeah, with the traffic and the road racing.
- [30:01]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No.
- [30:03]
A
So she still switched on, and it's that 15 minutes. This is so. I know. I thought it was such a strange thing, but I'm now seeing she's.
- [30:13]
B
She's my hero. I'm tell her right now she's my hero. I think that's. That's exactly what I would love people to do. Take the time to switch your mindset.
- [30:25]
A
And we can do this in our home, too. I was thinking I was writing this book, and I was writing in my bed for a long time, and I was like, this is where I go to get. And then I would go to lay in bed and think I should be writing. Like, something in my brain was now associating my bed with. With work from just a few days of writing in my bed. So you. I hear what you're saying about these sacred boundaries that we need, and we need to be really firm with our time and our space and making the switching off a priority. Because you're right. We can't just switch it off like a gazelle. We need that buffer. This is so good. Okay, your new book, Mind over grind. Tell me, is there something in this book that's like your favorite part or your favorite words of wisdom and putting you on the spot?
- [31:17]
B
Yeah, I'm having to choose all my, you know, between my favorite children, you know, like, because it's a whole book. The subtitle of the book is how to break free when work hijacks your life. But really, it could be when your thoughts hijack your life. Because again, you can be doing this from home and you can hijack yourself, too. This is what we've just been, you know, talking about. One of the things that I really. I really like in the book is about how to do vacations or holidays in a way that pays three times the dividends than a regular holiday does. And by the way, a holiday can be, you work hard and you're taking a vacation. A holiday can be, you spend your entire week organizing your home, working on your home, trying to make progress. But you take the weekend off from doing that. You give yourself a break there. However you want to define what a holiday is. Usually people work right up to the holiday. Let's get ahead, you know, et cetera. Or they're right up to where and then they get to that space, whatever that Space is, it's you're going somewhere, whatever your home, a staycation, whatever the thing is. And it takes me, I know I would notice it would take me three days if I'm going somewhere, to calm down enough, to be relaxed enough. Because I was on the let's get stuff done mode, which is not a great even. And I like active holidays. It's still not a good mode because you wake up in the morning, it's like, yeah, quickly, let's get breakfast. Like, no, we're in a hotel. Maybe the breakfast is nice. That should be part of the thing. It took me three days and then the vacation was half over. And so I learned two things. Number one, relax before you go on vacation, make sure you get to your vacation relaxed. I don't work more and more right up until I go. I literally take the couple of evenings before I leave to unwind, to not do too much. I'm pre packed so I don't have to do that. That's a stressful thing. And then, and when I started doing this, I was shocked because I would get to the first day of the holiday relaxed and I'm like, well, this is unusual. I'm in vacation mode on vacation right away. I mean, it's great. But I was like, well, why didn't I do this for the past 30 years anyway? So that's one thing. But the other thing is get excited about the vacation before the vacation. Because our brain, when it anticipates something good happening, starts to release neurotransmitters and hormones in ways that mimic that. And so if you're going somewhere, so look at some pictures now don't look at too many spoilers, don't like, but get excited. Look at what that beach looks like and just imagine being on it. That will really give you, like you can get really excited. And if you're going with kids somewhere, then get them excited about it. You know you're going to the zoo. Most zoos have images online and little stories about the animals. Get them familiar with them so that they then see familiar animals when they're getting to, you know, to the zoo. So get the first dip of the vacation is before you go. Then when you're there. What the mistake most people make is these days is they go for the picture up and then they're not present. So build in time after being present for taking pictures or take the pictures first and then be present. The media is important, but it's not more important than actually enjoying the thing while you're There. And then the third dip is when you get back, organize the media and relive the vacation through that. So you have three different opportunities. You might be going away for three days. You can get three weeks out of it of your brain literally being in that mode or mostly. And so triple dipping vacations is something I really like talking about in the book.
- [35:19]
A
This is so good. I. I just thought this morning I'm. This is so like serendipitous, man. I need a week off. I need a vacation. And then I thought, well, Cass, you just went to Mexico in March break and then you went with your mom the three weeks before that. But you know what? Right before I left, I was like, I gotta get all this. I gotta get. And I'm gonna be missing home and I gotta make sure and I gotta clean the house and I gotta double up on work. And then I was so intense the entire week, I was like, well, we got to do this and they don't. And scheduling this excursion for tomorrow and blah, blah, blah. I needed a vacation from the vacation. And you know what? I didn't even look at one picture I took. I didn't do any of this dipping, you say. And I really then didn't get what I needed, which is the recharge because I was on the whole time. I think that this is really life changing. Thank you for sharing. And I'm actually thinking of, we can do this on the weekends too.
- [36:19]
B
Yes, but I want to add something to what, I want to suggest something to you. The other advantage of the media is, you know what doesn't show up in the pictures and the videos. The fact that you were stressed or maybe you had a headache or maybe your stomach was bothering you or you just got annoyed. Previously, all that goes away. And our memories get laid down repeatedly every time we think of something. So by going through the media, you are not just reminding yourself of the vacation, but of the best version of it. Because you're smiling in those pictures and you look happy in those pictures with your mom. And you know, and you look rested in those pictures even if you were stressed out the moment before. And over time, that will be what you remember. When you take these pictures, you're not curating the pictures, you're curating the memory that you will have. And so, you know, going over them is valuable because it lays instead of a right now, you remember that vacation as being a little stressful. If you keep looking at the media and it's the right pictures and you're smiling, that will shift and you'll start to remember it as, oh, that was a good vacation.
- [37:21]
A
Actually, this is really good. And I think we can take this a step further. How many of us feel just overworked and stressed all the time and like dreaming of the vacation someday? What if we say, Saturday morning is my vacation and then we take your technique and then Friday evening we don't do anything and we relax and we just start thinking and anticipating of all the wonderful ways we'll relax Saturday morning and how we're not doing anything. And then during that relaxation, maybe we take a photo of our feet up and like, maybe this doesn't just have to apply to a vacation, but we can do this every week when we really need it. I think this is, you are on to something. Because when we're in go mode right up until we can have the stop, it isn't enough. We can't switch.
- [38:19]
B
Right. You can come across a magazine article during the week and go, oh, I'm dying to read. I'm going to save that for my Saturday break. And then you kind of look forward to that all week. Like there's. You can absolutely use these things. And even just taking a few hours on a weekend morning, turn it into something that's restful that you can triple dip and you can get much more out of.
- [38:41]
A
Triple dip is so good. Okay, I'm gonna challenge all my listeners to pick one time of the week, maybe a two or three hour block, and let's practice triple dipping it and treating it like this is so good, like a vacation. And also just like we have to have boundaries on I'm not gonna work in my bed and I'm not can. We should have boundaries on this sacred space then too. Like we're not going to do any tasks or duties or we're literally not allowed to do anything. But maybe it is recharge or read a book or read that magazine or watch a movie or whatever you're craving and you want to do. This is so good.
- [39:25]
B
May I add one thing to it. Here's another thing that will make it even more useful. We are very, very sensitive to clothing. Clothing makes us feel a certain way. Not all clothing does, but you know, power suits, what they do is they make you feel powerful, supposedly. And leisure wear is supposed to make you feel relaxed. So have a favorite piece of clothing that you associate with your relaxation mode, your do not disturb mode, your two, three hours that you're taking a break, whenever that break is, or the last hour of the day where you're Doing no duties. And learn to associate that favorite piece of clothing and put it on both as a signal to yourself and to your brain that if I'm wearing this, I am calm as a cucumber. And a signal to the people around you, like, oh, I'm sorry. I have that sweatshirt on. So no, I may not deal with your problem right now. It's going to have to wait.
- [40:24]
A
I love this. I want a cool as a cucumber outfit. That's so smart. And if we're taking Saturday morning, then we even can wear our cucumber Friday night. Right? It's like because I'm in preparation mode.
- [40:40]
B
Correct.
- [40:41]
A
So then we get. We're triple dipping. Oh, this is so. You're a genius. I love this so much. I'm going to immediately go and buy your book. And speaking of your book, can we talk about emotional first aid, which is a book that you had previously? Because I. Oh, sorry. Just one second.
- [41:06]
B
Go. Be safe.
- [41:07]
A
I'm so sorry.
- [41:08]
B
Justify a fighters.
- [41:09]
A
Okay, Amazing. Thank you.
- [41:10]
B
Two hours later.
- [41:12]
A
Sorry about that. I'm back. Everyone's safe. It was a good thing I went because there's only a few of us during the day. So fire out. Let's go. Dr. Guy Winch was amazing. I love talking with him. I'm actually so disappointed that we didn't get to finish our conversation, but I had some real aha moments in that interview and I hope you did too. Guy has other books that I definitely want to talk about, so I'm hoping he comes back. Let me know in the comments below if you would like to hear more from him. I definitely do. But now it's time for the new segment. Oh, hell no. Where I rant for 60 seconds just to use you as kind of a therapist. You ready? And here we go. Please pull over for emergency vehicles. Today we had a transport truck that just was. I don't know what they were doing. Listening to music too loud. The flashing lights, the loud siren. I cannot tell you how many people do not pull over. And friends, pull over to the right side. Pull to the right side. Pull for ambulances, pull for fire trucks. Pull for. Can we also agree we're gonna pull over for funerals? Because that is just about respect. Let me know also if this is a normal thing where live or it isn't. But this is a rant that I'm. This is a hill I'm going to die on here because people's lives are at risk. And if you're not pulling over, you are just part of the problem, not the solution there. I still have 20 seconds. So bonus round. Also, never drive through an accident site you don't know. You know, I know you're late for work and there's a doctor's appointment, but if there is police cars and accidents and things, don't drive around, don't drive through, don't do that. You're endangering everyone's lives. And also there, just everybody pull to the right and be patient because one day it could be you. Now let's jump right into a talk to cast segment. I'm so excited for this. We're going to start with a question from Candice.
- [43:01]
C
Hi, Cass, it's Candice from Alberta, Canada. I have been a huge fan of yours for a few years now and really grateful for all your advice. And I am needing help to try and organize a bathroom closet. It's a floor to ceiling closet that has only three shelves. So there's a lot of vertical space between the shelves. The bottom shelf has towels, so that's fairly functional. The middle shelf has vitamins and mouthwash and shaving supplies and whatnot. And that is the problem shelf. It's getting heaped with all kinds of vitamins on top of vitamins. And then there's a top shelf that I have like a time hotel bin and some travel bags for shampoo and stuff that we take when we're traveling. But there's so much space between the shelves and they're wire shelves so I can't put risers on them which is what I would normally do to stack the bins. And the vitamins are just getting thrown on top of each other and everywhere and I'd really just like to be able to maximize that space and I'm not really sure how and wondering if you have any tips or advice. I am a ladybug for reference. And it's this closet shared between my husband and I. And yeah, any help or advice you have, I would greatly appreciate. Thank you.
- [44:43]
A
I have so much advice, Candace, and I'm going to start with the most obvious which is adding shelves. I love that you say that they're wire and this can feel really intimidating. But going to Home Depot and just getting the like clip in, you know, the, the things that the shelf sits on, make sure it's the same size as the one you have and then ask home on depending Home Depot to cut the shelf to size for you, they will do it right there. And if they're like, we're not cutting it, which I've never had A Home Depot say, no, you can just use bolt cutters or wire cutters. Borrow them from a neighbor. Like, you don't need to do a saw. This is a DIY that I can do. And I am not handy. So adding shelves hands down would be the most effective thing. If you're like, casp, I'm on a shoestring budget. And, and even, you know, it would probably be around $50 to add some shelving worth it. But if you're like, not in the budget, that's okay. Go to the Dollar tree and just get some foam board and set that on top of the wire shelf so now you have a flat surface. And then get some Dollar Tree risers. At least you can double up a little bit on that space. Ideally, we would add shelving and baskets because you're a ladybug, but perfection is for weirdos. We, we. We do what we can in the moment. With the budget we have today, you can always go back and make it perfect later. Right now, your focus is just adding a little bit more storage any way you can. But the other advice I have is take those travel bags out and put them in a suitcase, because that is, that is valuable real estate. Even though it's up high for a time will tell bin. And for things you only use maybe twice a year, this should be for things you touch way more often. So I would recommend relocating those and taking advantage of that actual shelf, even if you lower it. So it's more useful. It's better than having it wasted for things only used twice a year. Now let's hear from Sheila. Hi, Cass. My name's Sheila. I live in Ada, Ohio, and I saw one of your recent YouTube videos about choosing the house. We wear shoes in the house. I saw your barefoot husband jumping around. Hilarious. But yeah, we're in Ohio. We wear shoes in the house. We have all wood floors and ceramic floors in the kitchen. Quite frankly, I cook a lot and my legs will ache if I'm not wearing sketcher tennis shoes. Something that's very supportive. Oh, we. Sheila cut out. We lost her. But that's okay. I still think this is important. Except I didn't. Didn't get to hear the part. I'm so curious about Sheila. Listen, call back in and record again. Here's the thing. I get wearing shoes especially shout out to Skechers. The Skechers, where you don't have. You just step in. They're the greatest shoes that ever existed. My husband made fun of me and said they were old lady shoes because you don't have to bend over. You just like slide into them and they lace so tight and it's amazing. And then guess what he wears every day. Sketchers. Because we are a sketcher family now. Because they're the greatest, most comfortable. And again, you just poop. And then you could run a marathon. Those things are going nowhere. The point is, let me know in the comments below if you wear shoes in the house or if you do not. But if you do, where do they go? And what I mean by this is like, you're wearing shoes all day in the house and then it's time for a shower. Obviously you take your shoes off then like, I'm so lazy. Do you just have a pile of shoes in front of the shower? Like, what about when you're getting in bed? Do you, you, when you get out of the shower, do you put them back on? No, because you'd put your pajamas. Then do you put them back on to walk back down to get a snap? Like, are there just a pile beside the bed? Like, where do the shoes go? I have a feeling people pick them up and put them in the closet. But what about us lazy ladybugs and butterflies who just leave crap everywhere? Like, I. I do not have the capacity of picking up shoes and putting them back. So every, like, what? Also just. Yeah, where do they go? There. That's all I have to say. Like, are there's just shoes everywhere? I'm assuming there's just shoes everywhere. Okay. And then. Okay, no, just let me know in the comments because I really want to know. And no one has answered yet. That was on two weeks ago and still no one's answered. Okay, bye. And last but not least, we have a question from Jen.
- [48:59]
D
Hi, Cass. And I am in Michigan and I have a question for you. My mother in law thinks she is a mild hoarder. She's not. She is just a butterfly, like crazy who's not been taught how she organizes at all. And I've been working with her, which has been interesting because I am a cricket with kids who are not crickets. So I've been following you for years and learned so much about myself and how I have to adjust in my own house and it's been really, really helpful. So been working with her and we've gotten through the kitchen, we've gotten through her closets and done some things. One issue that we're struggling with is that my father in law has Alzheimer's and goes through everything. And my mother in law, with her beautiful butterfly self find paperwork a lot because he will rummage through things and move them. And so what I'm struggling with is trying to help her identify a way that she can handle paperwork because she has piles of paper everywhere on dining room table, on every surface imaginable, in piles next to the rocking chair. And so that's kind of one of the things we want to tackle next. But I'm struggling to figure out a way where we can have it be out of sight enough that he won't be gravitating towards it to go through it. Like, ideally, I'm like, lock it up. But that won't work for her. She needs it to be accessible and kind of in her face and open. And I just can't figure out a way where both of those things can be true. And I wondered if you had a brainstorm, some way that we could maybe marry those two ideas together and help her out. So I just wondered if maybe you could think of some magical idea for that situation. Thank you in any case, and really appreciate all your content. Longtime listener, first time caller. Thanks. Bye.
- [51:09]
A
I. This is actually a really good point because with, like, with dementia and Alzheimer's, it's. He has that visual cue, right? So he's seeing something and he's like, oh, I should deal with this, but doesn't have the capacity to realize I'm not actually paying the bills. But if you hide it, then as a butterfly, she's not going to be able to also have that visual cue. So there is something we can do to get around this, and it's a little bit of a cheat. And there's a, first of all, for the paper that you have to deal with, put it in banker boxes and then clearly label it the most plain banker box that you can get. That doesn't look like a banker box, so get a decorative one. So it just looks like a decorative box. So it's not signaling work to her husband. And then the other thing that I would do is take advantage of the wall space with something new, like a magazine rack that hangs on the wall and then label it with her name instead of to do or to file or to pay a bill, which again, will signal to his brain this is something he has to do. If it's labeled her name, she gets that visual signal. This is something I have to do, and it's obvious and it's up there. I would put it in a. A folder, but it's still going to be a visual cue for her. But he won't register that as paper. And. And I think that's a really good kind of way of getting around because again, even if you're labeling to do or to pay, it's still signaling to his brain. So signaling with her name is a way of kind of getting around that. I would try that. And then, yeah, even if you could make the folder like decorative with flowers or something, that might signal to his brain decor. But she'll know this is the paper signal, the stuff I have to deal with. So it's kind of like a little hack like that, that that's personally what I would try. And if it doesn't work, we're going to try something else. Like nothing lost, everything gained. You're definitely in the, like, charting new territory and trying throwing a bunch of spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks phase. But how fun is that? And ultimately you can maybe find a solution that could be helpful for so many other people who are in the same position. So I think this is like a beautiful problem that you're solving and I hope once you come up with a solution, you can share it with others. Thank you so much for joining. I hope you enjoyed today's podcast. I am so excited to try this triple dip technique. Not just with vacations, though. I thought that was absolutely brilliant. But any scheduled downtime, making sure that I'm anticipating it and kind of relaxing before it starts, with like ample time for my brain and then taking. Taking a picture so I can like go back and reminisce about the relaxation after. Even if it's just a selfie of me sitting and reading a book. This triple dip was absolutely genius and I hope you give it a try too. Let me know what your favorite thing in today's podcast was. Or if you had an aha moment, I would love to hear it in the comments and I'll see you guys next time.