← Clutterbug - Real-Life Hacks and Tips to Declutter, Organize and Clean your Home Fast
Clutterbug - Real-Life Hacks and Tips to Declutter, Organize and Clean your Home Fast
Living in an Organized Space with ADHD – Jessica McCabe’s Update | Clutterbug Podcast # 280
01:14:47
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- [00:00]
A
Welcome, Clutterbugs. I'm so excited for our guest today. Jessica is a New York Times bestselling author of how to ADHD. She also has an incredible YouTube channel that really helped me when I was first diagnosed with adhd, because I felt like. I guess the best way to put it is I felt broken and I was looking for someone to fix me. And what I found instead of being fixed, was the ability to accept myself just how I was. And. And also she taught me a lot of tools and techniques so that my life was easier. And when I met her at a conference, the first ever conference for neurodiversity, we just really bonded. And she said to me, I'm drowning. My house is a disaster. I would love it if you could come and help. I immediately said to Joe, we are jumping on a plane. We're flying to Seattle, because Jessica has changed my life, and I hope that I could have the same small impact on her life. The thing I really love the most about Jessica is that she provides strategies and insights to help people with how their brain works, not against it. Kind of like the different clutterbug systems, but for adhd, instead of fighting to, like, make yourself work or do things in a certain way, she shows that it's all all about working with your natural tendencies. And I love that. But before I introduce you to Jessica, I want you to think about what you're going to tackle in your own home today. I do not want you to just passively watch or listen to this podcast. You're not allowed. You're going to get up and you're going to make yourself proud. Today I went to Jessica's house, and in three days, with just Joe and I, we decluttered two entire levels of her home. It was bad, you guys. It was can't even walk, cluttered. Not only in three days did we declutter it, but we organized and decorated and built furniture. And so here's the thing. Today, you can have excuses or you can have results, but you can't have both. Today is the day you say enough is enough, and you get up and you make a difference in your home. And you're not going to make over your entire house in a day or even, you know, a week, probably. But in this hour together, you are going to be blown away by what you get done. You're decluttering, you're cleaning, you're catching up on the dishes. You are making a difference. You're putting down the excuses, and you're picking up a trash bag. Or you're picking up the vacuum because today you're making it better. Listen to me, my friends, no excuses. Today is actually a really good day to tackle your entrance way. If you're like, I don't know where to start and I'm, I'm feeling confused. Cass, get up. Where do you come in the house? Grab that trash bag. I know you have flip flops that you never wear. I know you have coats that are, they're ugly and then you've outgrown them. You probably, if you have kids, you definitely have a butt ton of shoes and things that they've outgrown. You have scarves, you have mittens, you have things in your entranceway. Lord knows you have reusable shopping bags. Today is the day that you say, I'm sick of tripping over shoes. I'm sick of looking for what I need. I'm tired of being late and I'm going to make myself a really functional entranceway end stop. Why I love that you're going to focus on the entrance way today is because this has a dramatic impact on not just today and how your space looks, but every single day going forward. Because an organized, clutter, free entrance way means every day you're leaving the house is less stress. When I was working with Jessica, it was bonkers how many times she was telling me that she was late getting out the door because she couldn't find her keys, she couldn't find her wallet, her purse. She'd go, she'd come back in, it's raining. Where's the umbrella? I know I have a second shoe somewhere. She had coats piled under coats. She couldn't find her purse, her backpack, she multiple diaper bags, none of which had diapers in them. It was so chaotic that it was a battle for her to leave the house every day. And it was a battle coming home. And I want you to leave your house with a stress free ease and come back in and be welcomed by a space that instantly tells you, you got this, babe. You are in control. And that's the power that your entrance has. Has. It has the power to make life easier when you're leaving because you can find things really quickly and you're no longer searching around your home. But it is the power to welcome you when you walk in the door with a hug and a pat on the back, which really sets the tone for the rest of your night. If you focus on nothing else but this space, it's going to make a difference. It's not going to be easy Though there's no wave of magic wand. This isn't about, oh, well, I should get a new shoe organizer. Don't you dare open up Amazon and think about what you need to buy to make this better. We don't buy our way out of chaos. We dig our way out with a trash bag. You have too much stuff. Period. You have too much stuff. It isn't about what you don't have. It is about what you do have. We're not buying things today. We're getting rid of things. The reusable shopping bags, the extra shoes you don't even like and use all the receipts. The old. All of it, it's leaving today. The coats, all of it is adding up to a chaotic entranceway, a chaotic home. And if your entranceway is under control, I guarantee there's a space that's not. So get up, get moving, and make a difference Today without the Amazon shopping cart, my friend. And I want you to repeat this mantra. Oh, no, I'm tired, Cass. I haven't had enough sleep. I'll do it later. I'll listen to this for motivation and then I'll get up and get started. You can have excuses or you can have results. I'm just going to keep repeating that because today is the day I'm giving you a. A kick in the butt because I love you. If you're really having a hard time deciding what's going, I want you to pick a number. What's your birthday? Mine's 29. I have to find 29 things. I hope you're born earlier. I hope your birthday is like 4, December 4th or something. No, pick a random number because that stops your brain from overthinking and gives you a goal and a purpose that isn't just, oh, man, I have to declut. It's a tangible number of things that can leave. Receipts count, garbage counts. One shoe, the pair of shoes counts as two. Give yourself a number. This will help. Now that you're decluttering, I am so excited to introduce Jessica. Welcome, Jessica. I'm so excited to have you here on the podcast.
- [07:00]
B
I am so excited to talk to you and tell you how it's been going.
- [07:04]
A
I already told my listeners, like, how much I love you and how much you've helped me in my ADHD journey because it. I like, I only found out five years ago and I immediately found your channel and it was like a lifeline so I didn't feel alone. And you're a genius best selling author, but I want, I want you to say hi and maybe tell them a little bit about you and also about how to ADHD and your awesome YouTube channel and, like, why you made it.
- [07:32]
B
Hello, brains and hearts. I started my YouTube channel because I was failing at life just miserably. And I was 31, 32 years old, and I was like, wait a second, didn't. I was a gifted kid. Everybody kept telling me I had so much potential. Like, what? What happened? I realized I was quickly becoming not somebody who still had so much potential. At some point, people were stopping to tell me how much telling. At some point, people were going to stop telling me how much potential I had and be like, yeah, like, she. She just didn't reach it. And I was like, yeah, maybe they were wrong about my potential. But I. I just had this moment where I was like, I. I've tried. I've tried my best. Like, it's not for lack of trying. I have tried so hard that I've kind of burned myself out. So, like, what's going on here? And I knew I had this thing called add, and I knew that, like, I could take medication that would help me focus. But like everything else, I thought I was just absolutely failing at life. And the thought occurred to me that maybe there was more to this ADD thing besides having trouble focusing. So I decided to look it up. I started Googling, and I was like, what? Like, I started realizing there's a lot more information about this condition. And also, it's not called ADD anymore. It's called ADC now. And what. And I. As I started, like, falling down this, like, this Google hole, I guess I realized that there was so much information out there that I didn't know that would have been really freaking helpful. So I decided to take all of this information that I was learning and put it somewhere I could actually find it again. And I. You saw my house. Like, I'm incredibly messy and I lose everything. So I was like, the only thing. What won't I lose? I'll lose my notebook. I'll lose my phone. You lost your phone in my house 17 times. Like, what won't I lose? YouTube. Like, I can't lose YouTube. So I decided to put all this information on YouTube where I could actually find it again. And I made the videos public in case they were helpful for anybody else.
- [09:18]
A
Which it turns out they were so ridiculously helpful.
- [09:22]
B
Thank you.
- [09:23]
A
Because do you know what I find? It's real information. You fact check everything, like, with medical professionals. So. Because there's a lot of misinformation out There. This is what I especially TikTok. I just need to stay away because half of it is total bs. So I. I know when I'm going to your channel that it's trusted and it's true. But also, you never. There's no shame. It's only ever uplifting. Even the stuff about ADHD that sucks the most, you have a way of being like, well, yeah, that sucks, and that's okay. But, like, here's some ways that we can make it suck less or just, like, love ourselves anyways, and it's okay that that sucks. And that, I think, is the message I really needed to hear because I was trying to fix it for so long. Does that make sense? Like, what can I do to get better or something?
- [10:11]
B
Yeah. Society. I mean, it's. I still fall into that internalized ableism trap of, like, it's okay that I have ADHD as long as I'm trying to fix it. Like, as long as I'm working on it, you know, then I'm allowed to have it. And I'm just. I don't know, just in the last few years really getting to the point where I'm like, what if it's just okay that we have it? Like, what if we don't have to wait to be more neurotypical or function in more neurotypical ways or be able to do things, you know, everything that a neurotypical person can do before we're able to, like, relax and enjoy our life. Like, maybe we can just relax and enjoy our life and work toward achieving our goals. Like, what if that was a thing? So my channel has definitely evolved toward that. I'm so glad that I learned all these tools and strategies and things like that. But I think at the beginning I had this idea that, like, I'll learn how my brain works and how to work with it and how to overcome these challenges, and then I will get back to my life and then I can enjoy it and then. Right. And now I understand, like, there is no, like, end point at which we don't struggle at all anymore. And so I. I wish that I'd given myself that grace a little bit sooner instead of trying to, like, force myself to, I don't know, be like.
- [11:21]
A
Yeah, to be. To be normal. To be normal. I. Well, I feel like you've given me that grace, so I. I just. I'm. I really want to thank you for that because y. Yeah, that's a big part of it for me was there was a lot of shame. And you're like, well, actually, there's nothing wrong with you, and it's a medical condition. And I'm like, oh, man.
- [11:39]
B
Okay.
- [11:39]
A
Yeah. Wouldn't shame myself for being diabetic or any other. Right. But I shamed myself for this brain thing.
- [11:46]
B
Yeah. I used to feel like I was, like, so bad. Right. We. We make it this moral issue. Like, ADHD is this moral issue. Like, you're bad because you're a bad friend because you don't text back, or you're a bad employee because, like, you showed up late or whatever. You. And it's not a moral thing, it's just a factual thing that, like, we have different strengths and different struggles than maybe a neurotypical brain does. And not even completely different. It's not like somebody who's neurotypical is never late. It's just we're late a lot more often. It's a lot harder for us. You know, we have less of a sense of what time it is right now than somebody who's neurotypical. So we struggle harder. But because none of our struggles are, like, totally unique to adhd, it's really hard for us to, to give ourselves grace because, like, well, my neurotypical friend says he just uses a calendar, and then he's everywhere on time. And, like, why doesn't that work for me? And what's wrong with me that I can't? And reading all these research papers and understanding what's actually going on in my brain and having language to describe it and realizing it's just a factual thing, it's not a moral thing at all. It's just, factually, our brains are structured a little bit differently. Factually, there's a bit of a neurodevelopmental delay. Factually, these things are a little bit different in our brains. And so, factually, we're going to need to do things differently. And it's, to me, no different from, like, being able to read the error codes on a printer. Like, okay, this error code. Oh, it's out of paper. Okay, let's give it some paper. Right? It's just a factual thing. It's. There is no shame involved.
- [13:07]
A
I love that. Okay, let's, let's. Let's really talk about shame, and let's pivot to me coming to your house. Listen, because I, I. You sent me a walkthrough of your home, and the whole time you were really like, I am not ashamed of this, and it's messy. But. And, And I love, I actually really loved that, that you were like, there's no shame in this.
- [13:30]
B
But also, we're not working for me.
- [13:34]
A
It's not working for you. But I also think there is some feelings involved in living in chaos. So I want you to. Now that you're kind of. You've experienced, like, it different. What did it feel. Feel like before I came? Like, what did your. Did you feel a certain way about your home that you now realize?
- [13:56]
B
Yeah. I mean, there was stuff that I realized then. Right. Like, it was a chaotic environment, and my. I feel like the level of chaos in my brain has always spilled out into my environment, and it's been just that way my entire life. Like, I can have things be perfectly neat and organized and, I don't know, like, packed up in my backpack, and then I walk into a room and I set things down, and somehow it's exploded. Like, I don't even understand how it happens. But it's like, my brain is chaotic, therefore, my environment is chaotic. And I. I don't like living in that kind of chaos. There's like, a threshold at which. At which I'm like, this is too much. Like, I get overwhelmed by my own environment, and so just, like, I get overwhelmed by my own brain sometimes. Like, there's just too much going on. And, yeah, it's my own brain, but, like, I can't even handle the mess in my own brain sometimes. And, like, I couldn't handle the mess in my own environment sometimes. So it was. I forgot the question. What was the question?
- [14:49]
A
Did you have feelings?
- [14:51]
B
I did.
- [14:52]
A
Did you have feelings about your home? But did you also have. I'm wondering if you had feelings about the thought of me. I mean, we met twice, but I'm practically a stranger coming into your home and, like, touching all your stuff.
- [15:04]
B
Yeah. So the feelings that I had in my home, I was overwhelmed. I was frustrated. It felt like I was feeling fighting an uphill battle because for a while I was able to just go, you know what? I'm messy. That's not where my strengths lie. I could put a ton of energy and effort into keeping my house clean, getting my house clean, keeping my house clean. Or I could write a New York Times bestselling book and be real effective at that. So I was like, let me lean into my strengths. Let me lean into the areas that I'm actually gonna be a little bit more effective and not worry about the places where I struggle, because it's just the return on investment was terrible. And I figured that out pretty early. So when I had my daughter, my house was pretty chaotic. I Had before, right before I got pregnant. I had just finished the book. I. While I was pregnant, I was promoting the book. I. The book came out the month before my daughter did. So when she was born into this world, like, my place was a mess and I did have the nesting instinct. And I suddenly, like, post C section, was very interested in, like, tidying my house up and keeping my house clean. And, like, was hobbling around. Like, I couldn't sit up, but I was determined to, like, put cute things on the wall in her nursery. Like, I suddenly cared and I was suddenly home. I wasn't at work. I was home with my baby. And I looked around and I went, this won't do. Let me clean up. Right? I should probably. Baby proof. You can't do anything but cry yet. But, like, at some point she will be mobile. So I started that journey of trying to take care of my house and trying to clean and organized and all of this. But, like, it was that experience that I had had my whole life of, like, I do all this work and then it immediately falls apart, and I do all this work and immediately falls apart. And it was so discouraging and I was slowly making progress. It was kind of like pushing the boulder up the hill and then it would roll down, and then I would push it up the hill and it would roll down. But, like, every time it rolled down, it was, like, not quite as, you know, far down as it was before, but I was just running out of time. Like, my daughter was about to start walking when you came, and I was like, ah, fine, I need help. Like, I was spending hours a day, I'm not joking, hours a day trying to, like, take care of my house and fix my house and clean my house and baby proof, and it just was exhausting.
- [17:13]
A
Hmm. Did. Did your partner also feel like it was exhausting? Like, did he have the same emotional impact that you did, or was it, like, less? Because I know you were worried about him in the beginning when we first talked. You're like, I don't know how he's going to feel about rearranging all the stuff. He was pretty valid.
- [17:33]
B
Yeah, he was pretty distressed, too. And again, I don't, Like, I did let go of a lot of the shame around how my brain works a long time ago, thankfully. And even, you know, knowing that my house was chaotic, I was like, that was still me prioritizing what mattered at the time. I. I really cared about writing a New York Times bestseller that was going to be helpful to brains and cramming all My information in it. I really cared about doing IVF and having a baby and. And bonding with that baby. I really cared about these things. So it was okay that I didn't take care of my house for me, but my partner would be frustrated because he wouldn't be able to find a thing, or he'd trip over a pile that I left or whatever. And then I would feel bad. Not shame, but, like, guilt. Like, oh, man. Like, I'm not doing my. You know, it's the internalized, like, ableism, but also the internalized, like, misogyny, I guess. Like, I'm a woman. I could be like, my house should be clean. I. This is my fault, right? If our house is messy, it's my fault he lives there too. But, like, it's my job to make sure, you know what I mean? Mean? So he. He would be frustrated. He would get overwhelmed, and, like, it was. It was emotionally distressing for him as well. And there was a tipping point where he and I went to a neighbor's house, and neighbor had the same exact townhome layout as us. And maybe like, 10 of the stuff. Like, we. We walked through this house, and we're like, huh, People live here and it's functional, but they don't have piles in this corner, and they don't have, like, things lined up against this railing, and they don't. Huh. And then we went home to our place, and we were like, hoarders, much. Like, we didn't even realize. Like, we knew we had too much stuff, but we didn't realize how too much stuff until that direct comparison happened. And then we were like, okay, we could use some help. So that's the point at which I was like, hey, Cass, did you. Did you mean that? Like, did you actually mean that you would come and organize my house? Because we. We need help. Because even after we had realized, like, we need to get rid of stuff, we didn't really know how to begin that. And it was such a daunting, overwhelming project while we were also not getting sleep and still trying to get the hang of parenthood and all of that. So we knew that we needed to get rid of stuff, but, like, not how or when or any of that. So we were kind of desperate.
- [19:46]
A
I was so happy to come. I literally. You were like, yes, come. And I was like, joe, get on a plane. We're going. This is going to be amazing. And I had so, so much fun. Only there for three days, man. A lot got done. You got rid of so much. It was so Quickly. I was crazy impressed at how well you did. But what I really want to know. Okay, like, what's the biggest change in your daily life? Because for me, like, my decluttering journey, I was like, oh, it's going to look good. That was nothing. Who cares? Did you. Do you have, like, something that was, like, the biggest change after I left?
- [20:26]
B
The biggest thing is being able to have ADHD and have all the. The last minute things, like, happen as you're trying to get out the door. Of, like, oh, I forgot my keys. Oh, wait, like, let me go get the keys. Wait, now I have. I forgot the other keys because I put those keys on the hook, like, without thinking. And now I have to go back like that. Running back into the house 17 times to get whatever you forgot. Before, I was a little bit at war. During those 17 times, I'm, like, battling through, like, the enemy ranks of all the coats and the shoes on the floor and the every. Like, I felt like I was fighting my way into my house to, like, find what I needed and getting distracted by all of the clutter. And now when I have to inevitably run back in the house because I forgot something, it's exactly where I expect it to be. I'm not getting distracted by other things. I'm still able to make it two places on time. Right. Like, I left. I. I live, like, five minutes away from where I work. And I was like, oh, right. You know, I did the thing where I checked my calendar this morning. I was like, oh, I forgot I was on the podcast. Okay, I gotta get over there. And I. I did my makeup and I. I left with, like, you know, 15 minutes before I had to be here. I did actually go back into the house probably about eight times because I forgot something. Like, oh, wait, I. I forgot the dog. Or like, I need food for the dog and, oh, shoot, the keys for the wrong. I went back and forth 17 times and I was still here on time, Cass. Like, I was still here on time. The biggest change is now the hardest part about getting out the door is I don't want to leave. I like my home. I like my space. And before, it felt like I was constantly trying to escape it. Either escape it by let me just hang out in the nursery with my daughter where, like, I did hyper focus and it's all nice in there. Or escape by going and, you know, hyper focusing on work or escape by at the end of the night, like, I'm exhausted. Let me plop down on the couch and watch Star Trek where I'M looking at a screen and I don't have to see the chaos around me. I was constantly trying to escape my space, and now my space is somewhere I want to be.
- [22:19]
A
Oh, my gosh. I love that so much. That's. That's so nice to hear. And. And I love that it was weeks and weeks ago and you're still saying that, which means, like, maybe it's had a last sting effect, like you've said in the past you've tried. And then it's like, oh, it just becomes chaos again. And I. I said, I'm like, I'm pretty sure that we'll go back. Like, there is. It's not ever going to look like, of course we live in it, but d. Are you, like, maintaining the organization?
- [22:50]
B
I am, yeah. At first I was doing it really rigidly. I'm like, Cassidy, 15 minute declutter. We have to do it every night. And like, yeah, we got to run the dishes every night and unload the dishwasher every morning. And I was like a drill sergeant about it. And I was like, everything. It was staged, right? When you left it, it was beautiful.
- [23:04]
A
It was staged.
- [23:05]
B
It didn't look lived in yet, exactly. But I was like, we have to keep it exactly like this because if we don't, the chaos will return. Right? Because we also had the. The doom room still. And like, my. I was like, the chaos is. It still exists in these other rooms, and it's going to spill out and it's going to be everywhere. I need this space to stay like it is while we start tackling these other spaces or it will descend back into chaos. And I was, like, so terrified that it would. And then one. One night, my partner was doing dishes and I was starting the declutter, and he's like, it's, you know, it's. It's really messy. And I was like, hang on. We haven't done the 15 minute declutter yet. And he's like, I've been doing this for more than 15 minutes. I was like, that's the dishes. That's not. Yes. Dishes are going to take longer than 15 minutes doing. I. I'm going to take longer than 15 minutes doing laundry, but the decluttering part can happen in 15 minutes. So I set a timer and I. I did the declutter. And I was like, see, it took less than 15 minutes. He was like, okay, all right. So we were both terrified. We were just waiting for the other shoe to drop for so long. And at one point, I did, like, I Went to wash the pillowcases on the cute little throw pillows that you got, like, the little white ones. And I washed it with a bunch of other pillows and pillowcases, and it came out great. Those white pillowcases came out gray. And I was like, oh, no, it's all this is it. Like, that was my cornerstone, right? Like, the corner of that couch, they were $4. But, like, it wasn't. Wasn't the money. It was the. Like, it was the. The symbolism. It was the. The metaphor. I don't know. It was. It was the, like, if this one corner. It was like, magical thinking, I guess. Like, if this one corner stays pristine, then the rest of my house will follow. And so as soon as that happened, I was like, it's kind of descending. I was just so convinced for so long. And then there were times where a couple of nights in the row, I wasn't able to declutter, and then I was able to fix it the next day, and I was like, like, okay, maybe we're okay. But the other thing that happened was, at first, I was so convinced, so convinced that it would descend into chaos because we were so used to living in chaos that it was actually uncomfortable to live in this space where it wasn't chaotic.
- [25:12]
A
I hear this all the time, right?
- [25:15]
B
And I knew this because I'd had a therapist before who was like, I got out of a really abusive relationship. I'm not saying my house was abusive to me, but kind of, um, I was in a really abusive relationship, and I got out of it. And the therapist that I had at the time was like, you know, the next relationship you have, if it's healthy, it's probably going to feel boring. It's not going to feel good, because you're calibrated to this high level of drama. So just give it time. Just give it time. Let your. Let your body let your systems reset to this is normal. That was not normal. This is normal. And so I was like, okay, let's just keep it nice while our systems get accustomed to this. Because the first time my partner and I sat on the couch with nothing to do, we were, like, looking around our house. We were sitting in the. In the beautiful adult love nest you made for us in this living room. And I was like, there's nothing to do. It's not that there's nothing to do. There's, like, board games and instruments and whatever, but there's nothing we have to do. And that was so disorienting to not have any, like, clear.
- [26:14]
A
I totally know. I totally know what you're saying it. Yes, that's the biggest impact I noticed. And that the thing that was the most unexpected, when I was doing my journey too, not only was I uncomfortable in a tidy space at first, which is weird, but also, like, at the end of the day, I was looking around all the time just like, what am I supposed to do now? Why do I know? I must be forgetting something because I have extra time. It was we. It was weird. For me, that was the biggest unexpected impact was how much more time I guess I had in my day. And then I immediately filled it with other crap, which probably wasn't healthy, but do you have, like, an unexpected impact? The other thing I hear a lot is that people who go through this journey, like, I came to your house for three days, be like, crazy. Everyone's like, oh, this is going to be stressful for our relationship. But oftentimes it really strengthens the relationship because decluttering is stressful, but there also has to be trust there, right? Does that.
- [27:18]
B
Yeah. I feel like it strengthened our relationship in the sense that I realized how good my partner is at this, and I got to see him playing to his strengths. Like, he was crushing it. And that was really cool. But in a way, and I guess this is going to be good for our relationship long term. But when we were. When we no longer had this shared enemy of the house, like, when we were no longer at war, we were able to think about our relationship and our connection as a couple and go, okay, there's some stuff we want to work on here that we hadn't maybe been focused on because we were just in the trenches battling our house and trying to survive as new parents. So it opened up space for us to connect and see each other, but also be like, okay, this has maybe been a little bit neglected. We have some stuff that we want to work on in terms of our connection. And yeah, so that. That was kind of unexpected.
- [28:14]
A
I. I love that you're saying this. This honestly makes me so happy because it's something that I don't talk about enough, which is sometimes when you sort of eliminate one problem, other things are glaring. So I had the same experience, like, when my house wasn't. My. This is awful. I was like, oh, I. I'm really with money. You know what I mean? And then it, like, I was like, oh, also, like, I'm. I'm really bad with my health and my food. Like, everything else was minimized because that was so maximized. And so when that it was like, well, now I have all these other problems. So that is. I love that you're saying that because it isn't all sunshine and rainbows. Sometimes, like, it's so nice. It is so nice to kind of get sort of in control of something and get a flow and make a part of your life easier. But it doesn't automatically, like, flip a switch and just, like, fix everything either.
- [29:07]
B
No, of course not. But it makes space for you to be able to see the other things in your life that maybe need some attention when you're not just battling your house, I guess, which was really helpful. I think I might start a second channel. I don't know yet, but I think I want to do a channel called Jessica Needs a Hobby, because. Okay, but here's why. Because I realized, like, I've been so hyper fixated on this one special interest for, like, the last decade, like, the adhd and. And, you know, between that and parenting and, like, tackling my house, like, that's been all of my. It's. That's everything. That's been everything that I'm doing. And now that I can, like, see my instruments on the wall that I haven't played nearly as much as I would like. And now I, you know, I've got this. My daughter has Art Corner, and I'm like, I would like to learn how to draw. I'm like, I want. I want there to be space for hobbies. Even. Even getting rid of my hobbies, right? Like, getting rid of all of my yarn and realizing, like, I never even finish any of it. I'm like, I want there to be space in my life for hobbies. And so I think I want to do a thing where I just try any hobby anybody suggests and. And, like, have a rubric and, like, I rank it to decide if this is my hobby.
- [30:15]
A
No, I super love it. And I also can relate. That is exactly when I went from. My house was super, super chaotic, and it was under control. I suddenly had, like, six more hours to my day, but I was used to chaos. So then I was like, what? Well, I'm gonna fill it. I started every craft. I started this. I started volunteering. I became a firefighter.
- [30:36]
B
Like, this.
- [30:37]
A
This is the thing that I think is the most unexpected side is, like, you. You literally free up hours.
- [30:45]
B
Oh, yeah, I didn't have time. That's the thing. I didn't have time for hobbies. Like, I. I saw my partner, you know, going and brewing beer and going through these other things. But, like, as a woman, as a Mom. I don't know. Like, because of the nesting instinct, if he left me alone in the house for a few hours, I wasn't like, yeah, let me practice my ukulele. I'm like, let me get on top of the laundry. Let me clean. Let me tidy. It felt like that was my hobby. And so now I need a new one. I love that so much.
- [31:09]
A
Three days. It sounds like three days literally had changed my life.
- [31:13]
B
Cast changed my life. Like, it's ridiculous.
- [31:17]
A
That's. Yeah. And you don't know until you know. I. That that's the thing, too. I. Yeah, we talk about it all the time, but you don't really know until you experience how dramatic it is to not only have less stuff, but have systems in place that feel easy enough to keep using. And that's what I also wanted to talk about. I just did a video about unorganizing your space. Like, basically abandon the ideas of these traditional. The way we're supposed to do things. Like, you've got to put your papers in a filing cabinet, and you have to do these things. I really think embracing your organizing style and kind of adapting to a system like with you hooks instead of hangers, something that maybe isn't traditional but feels easier is so important. And I do think that this is an important concept for people who have adhd. Is this, like, letting go of the perception of how things are supposed to be done and in ways some instead, like adapting our home to kind of catch the way we naturally put stuff down or that naturally feels easy for us to put things down, but also.
- [32:32]
B
In a way where it's easy to find later. Because that's what I thought I was doing with my coat rack. I thought I was like, oh, yeah, this is one step instead. Instead of, like, the five steps. Steps of going to the closet and opening the door and getting a hanger and putting it on the hanger, putting it back, closing the door. Like, this is one step. You just put the thing on the thing. I can put my jacket on a coat rack instead of the couch. I can do that. And also my daughter's coat. And also, you know, my dog's coat. And also my partner puts his coats there. And you're the one who pointed out to me this is no longer one step, because then when I go to, like, find my coat, I'm digging through piles to find it. So I like that. It's. It's. What you did is just brilliant. Like, at some point, I've got to, like, just rewatch the footage and like point out all of the ADHD friend things that you did, but what you did is you created a system that is not only ADHD friendly in terms of to use, it's also ADHD friendly in terms of to maintain, which is huge, huge, huge, huge. And I've never had that in my life. I've had systems where it was functional for my brain because my mom was neurotypical and she naturally set up a launchpad by the door and she naturally had systems that worked really well for me and she tried to teach me how to do these systems for myself and I just couldn't because they were what a neurotypical person would do to create ADHD friendly systems. They weren't maintainable for me when I moved out on my own. And so this is just the first time in my life that like I have an environment that works for my brain, that supports my brain, that does everything I need and I am capable of maintaining. I genuinely didn't think that was possible. Gas. Like, I really didn't.
- [34:07]
A
So I, I love that. Thank you for saying that. I think I just was like, I got the sense that you are a butterfly, so you're very visual. But also you don't always stop and think before you put, you just put down because you've got so many things going on in your brain. But you were really trying to be a bee. Like I think you thought that that's probably because your mom was like really maybe did things in a certain way.
- [34:34]
B
That's part of it. But part of it is I, I don't know, maybe because of the chaos. Like I love organizing. Like I loved going to Staples at the beginning of every school year and getting the binder and getting all the tabs and all the, like the, you know, I would hyper focus on organizing. But then the problem was once that hyper focus wore off and I was busy living life like my, my systems didn't survive life because when I wasn't, when that wasn't the activity, right, when organizing wasn't the hobby, what, when that wasn't like what I was focusing focused on, when what I was focused on was getting out the door. What I was focused on is like working on my book. My systems didn't survive because what I enjoy doing, like the systems I enjoy setting up are not systems that I can actually maintain when life hits. When that's not what I'm focused on. So yes, like if I'm to set up organizational systems, I set them up like I'm a bee, but I am A butterfly. And so that was one of the biggest things that I learned is, like, the organizational systems that appeal to you that you would like to use might not be the ones that actually work for you. So now I am binging your channel and Instagram and everything because I need to know what the hell to do in my other spaces. I actually went and decluttered with the help of my housekeepers. Like, I taught them what to do. I was like, this is what cast did. Can you do this for me? And, like, have runners. And, like, I recreated the whole thing of decluttering. I decluttered my whole bedroom. And I was like, cool. And then two weeks later, I'm like, walking over piles of laundry again. I'm like, what happened? But what happened was I did the decluttering part, but I didn't do the setting up organizational systems part. And I don't even know where to start. I'm a little overwhelmed and intimidated. So I'm like, okay, I don't. Don't know what to do. And then the doom room, like, I did a lot of decluttering there, but, like, I didn't totally finish. And then my partner was gonna do it while I was gone one day and I got home and he's like, this is a lot harder to do with. Without Cass. I think he, like, he did a little bit, but, like, I could barely even tell what he did. So we still got some decluttering to do in the doom room. My bedroom is decluttered, but, like, I don't know how to make it stay that way.
- [36:32]
A
Well, yeah, let's talk about that. It's. It's that adaptations to making it resilient. It's literally. And you talked about this in your keynote speech. It's making it work for your worst day. Because I think that's what we do just as human beings is when we're motivated and we're like, today's the day I'm actually going to organize. That's our best day. That's our very bestest day.
- [36:58]
B
And set up systems for the. You on the day that you feel like setting up systems, set up systems for your worst day. And actually, thank you. That. That even gives me a place to start. Because there has to be error tolerance. It's one of the most important things for people with ADHD is we need error tolerance. One of the things that you taught me, I don't even know if you realize that you taught me this was things shouldn't go where you know, I had this idea in My head, I believe this lie that I should remember where things go. And what I learned when I walked into my space is I should. It should be obvious where things go. It should be absolutely obvious where things go. And so, like, even thinking about my bedroom right now, I've got, like three different types of hampers. And, like, I've got some clothes in, like, clear plastic bags that I'm like, okay, I had sorted those so that they could go in the laundry, but, like, to look at them, I wouldn't know if that can go in the regular wash or if it's special wash. Like, I. I was like, I'll remember, right? Like, some of these bags are like, special and some of them I don't remember. And so now it's just all chaos again. So, like, I need. I need. I need bins where it's obvious when. Which bin to put the clothes in. I need it. I need. I don't know. I don't know what the systems are exactly, but, like, it needs to.
- [38:13]
A
I'm gonna tell you what I think you need in your. In your bedroom. I. Your worst day is you waiting to fold properly. That's your worst day because you have this thing where you love Marie Condo folding. And I think when you have time to do it, you should do it. But what about your worst day when you don't have time? It should still be a way.
- [38:33]
B
So what I want my worst days is like, I do the laundry and then, yeah, they're not folded. So right now I have like a laundry basket full of clothes that are waiting to be folded, but it's not clear if they're clean or dirty. I remember that they're clean, but, like, it wouldn't be obvious to somebody else. And so they might put dirty clothes in that basket. And then I'm like, oh, no, they got mixed up. And then I just wash them all again. Or like, they're on my bed, right, Right now I have a pile of clean clothes on my bed. But then somebody might toss like a dirty thing on there. And then I'm like, oh, no, they're mixed up and I have to wash them all again. So, yes, I need a yes.
- [39:04]
A
So here's. Here's what I would suggest starting with for you is, honestly, I hate dressers and I want you to ditch the dresser and look for like a Calyx system that runs all. Just bear with me here, babes. All along there with big plastic bins that are clearly labeled for the clothing. You don't care if it gets folded so there are going to be lots of things you're going to want to find, fold. But what about socks, underwear, pajamas, workout clothes? What if we could create bins for those? Don't make that face. Listen to me. Because on your worst day, you're going to bring the basket up and you're going to be like, okay, this shirt has to be hung and we're going to set that, set that, set that on top. But then you're like, the underwear can toss, the bras can toss, this can toss. Suddenly you have a full basket that's down to six pieces. And so if you could take some of the pressure off to do all the laundry. Perfect. And just identify a few things that you want to make sure are put away. Right. But these don't have to be. You take your workload and you immediately cut 75% of it out. And honestly, who cares if you fold your yoga pants? Stop it. Who cares if you fold your underwear? Stop it. And also, you pull those bins out, you set them in front of you. You sit on the bed and you. You chuck it in like a basketball, which makes it fun and fast and easy. And then I know it's not going to feel comfortable at first, but it's now you're tripping over a basket that you're pretty sure is clean, but maybe not everybody does away is better. You can still have the. I'm going to put this away perfect. Later. Lay that somewhere. But I really want you to identify the stuff that. It doesn't matter. Pick some real things. Socks, underwear, bras. And give yourself permission to toss those away without doing it right. Just to free up workload. Because the thing. Laundry's too time consuming. It's freaking time consuming. So we. We. We don't have the capacity to do it all good.
- [41:09]
B
That.
- [41:09]
A
So you have to do some of it shitty. Period, period, end, stop, period. And I would like to see you embrace that. If you're like, hells no. I hate that idea. Okay, fine. Another solution is you literally get a shelving unit that fits laundry hampers. You have all laundry hampers that slide in, and that's where clean laundry goes. Until you have time to put it away, you'll start living out of the clean laundry baskets. And then you'll be like, I'm wearing these unfolded clothes anyways. Might as well embrace Cass's other solution. But if you need like the. If you need the in between to prove to yourself, then that's fine too. But I think when it comes to this, it's you have a real expectation of how it should be done. And I just think that it doesn't matter for a lot of the things that you want to do. I don't think your workout clothes matter. I don't think your pajamas matters if they're folded. I don't think your underwear, your socks, your bras. I think if you allowed yourself a system that just could toss things away quickly. It takes that big mountain of work, and now it's like 25% less immediately.
- [42:22]
B
Yeah, I think probably something in between would be good. Like, you know, on. On my worst days, I'm just like, okay, here's. Here's a, you know, a hamper for bottoms and here's a hamper for tops that I can just throw in. And then if I have time to fold them, then I do. You know, if I have time to fold them and put them away the way that I like, then I can. But if not, I can live out of those baskets. But it's. I don't know, maybe. Maybe something like that.
- [42:48]
A
That's. Are you sorting your. Your clothes before you wash?
- [42:54]
B
Wait a minute.
- [42:55]
A
Are you sorting your dirty laundry? Oh, I was gonna say. Don't. You better be washing everything on cold, babe. Ever. No. No colors.
- [43:04]
B
No special. Like the stuff that can't go in the dryer. That's the. Only.
- [43:08]
A
Makes sense.
- [43:08]
B
Sorting that I do. But yeah, the. The like, once. Once it's clean, it's fine. I'll stop folding my underwear, thanks. I'll stop holding my underwear, thanks. I can put that away in the drawers.
- [43:22]
A
You could just start with underwear.
- [43:24]
B
Yeah. Clean tops.
- [43:26]
A
Dip your toe in the shitty water, because what you're gonna find is you're like, wow, I'm gonna be real with you. It takes me three and a half minutes to put away one basket of laundry now. Three and a half minutes. Three and a half minutes. Don't. Just. We. I just want you. I want you to just.
- [43:43]
B
Okay.
- [43:44]
A
Try it.
- [43:44]
B
I will try it.
- [43:46]
A
Okay. That's all.
- [43:46]
B
I still get to fold towels. That's it.
- [43:49]
A
I fold. I roll my towels all day. You're not going to throw your towels in. I'm not a monster. But you will throw your tea towels because who cares?
- [43:58]
B
I do.
- [43:59]
A
Okay, fine.
- [44:00]
B
But you're right. Like, I have a. I have a kid now. I have a family. I have a business. Like, I'm not gonna. I can't. I can't. Like, I would like to. I enjoy folding, but I don't have the time to fold all of the things so fine, it's, it's like you.
- [44:14]
A
You want to do it, you're, you're expecting to do it always on your best day. We just need to adapt for what can I do on my worst day that only takes five minutes? And then maybe I'll save the stuff that I really want to wait till my best, best day. But I can do the underwear on my worst day.
- [44:29]
B
Yeah, okay.
- [44:31]
A
And then that it takes a lot of the pressure off to always be on your best day or waiting until that best day comes. At least you're keeping up and not being like drowning in, in a mountain.
- [44:42]
B
That's true. Because right now like I could do a load of laundry every day to catch up on the laundry, but I don't because then I won't have time to fold it. And then all of this clean laundry piles up, but then it gets mixed in with a dirty lot. So then I'm like, fine. Okay.
- [44:55]
A
I have to take a second to thank today's podcast sponsor, Cozy Earth. Years ago when I turned 40, I decided to treat myself to some actual grown up, nice sheets. And there was no going back. My first set of Cozy Earth sheets, it felt like luxury. I mean, they're not luxury prices, but they're so soft. They are bamboo. And the more more I wash them, I swear, the softer they get. And I still have those sheets to this day. I've bought more, but they still look like the day I bought them. And I also love that they're temperature regulating. There is just nothing nicer than sliding into cool, silky, soft sheets at the end of the day. And yeah, I deserve that. I deserve my bedroom to feel like a beautiful luxury hotel. And right now there is a risk free purchase. Like you can try these sheets or you can try their beautiful pajama sets. Risk free for 100 nights. And if you don't love them, you can return them. They also come with a 10 year warranty. So that's a decade full of cool quality sleep. And right now you can upgrade your sheets for summer. Go to cozyearth.com and use the code clutterbug for 40% off their best selling temperature regulating sheets and their pajamas and more. Trust me, you will feel the difference the very first night. Go to cozyearth.com use the code clutterbug to sleep cooler, lounge lighter and stay cozy. Okay, listen, let's talk about something that I didn't know was a thing and you introduced me to this, which is ADHD tax.
- [46:40]
B
Oh boy. Yeah.
- [46:42]
A
Can you does this also what Is this. And also, does clutter affect this? Or, like, disorganization. Can this have an impact?
- [46:48]
B
Oh, yeah. Disorganization can really increase the ADHD tax. The ADHD tax is basically money that we spend just for having adhd. Like, the extra money we have to spend. Like, I didn't open my mail because I didn't know where I put it, because disorganization. And so then, like, I missed that I didn't pay a bill and now there's a late fee or there's a check in the mail that, like, I didn't find until two years later and now it's too late to cash the check. But also it, it can show up in ways like, I can't find my phone charger. I'm a buy a new one. I need a phone charger. Like, let me just buy anyone. It'll be here in two days. Amazon, maybe tomorrow, because I live in Seattle. So there, there is a lot of. There are a lot of times where I have spent money on duplicates of things because I can't find the thing. And that adds up. That is very expensive. And even things like running up and down stairs, like, I, I couldn't find the, the pump when I was, you know, nursing and, and had to pump milk. I couldn't find the pump. And trying to fight through three floors worth of stuff to find the pump wasn't working for me. So I got a pump, I'm not joking, for every floor floor so that I didn't have to go up and down stairs. Like, I just had to look on that floor for where the pump was. That's not cheap, right? Like, I spent a lot of money and I was like, I gotta do it. I'm just trying to survive over here. But I feel like now I know where things are and so I. Okay, I don't know where my phone charger is. Like, I have to figure out a home for my phone charger. I keep moving that around still because I got a different phone. It's the phone, same phone chargers. I have to figure that out. But if I, if I know what zone things are in, then I can go to that zone and find it and realize really quickly if it's gone gone, or if I just left it in that zone somewhere that was like, slightly out of place. So we can definitely save on the ADHD tax. But that's the financial ADHD tax. There's also the ADHD tax of, like, time. And what you were talking about before, about how we have seen spent so much time trying to fight our clutter. That's an ADHD tax, too. Me not having time to engage in hobbies because when I get a couple of hours to myself because my partner takes the baby out for the afternoon or whatever, I'm battling my house. I don't have that time to explore a hobby because I'm busy. Like, I'm busy trying to get my house to be any sort of functional for me. And if I don't do that, then I pay the ADT tax later in the week, where I am late to something and, like, miss out on a financial opportunity at work because, like, I messed something up. I didn't get there in time or forgot about it or whatever. So it's. It's time. It's money. It's just. It's stuff that we have to spend just because we have these extra challenges that neurotypical brains don't have to the same extent.
- [49:38]
A
Yeah. Oh, gosh, so true. Well, I don't want to keep you all day, even though I could talk to you all day, but you've changed my life. And I was just so happy to be able to, like, repay you in some tiny way by coming to your home. And I just.
- [49:54]
B
You flew to my house, Cassie. Like, you got me furniture. Like, you rearranged my entire, like, almost my entire house. You have seriously changed my life. This was not a tiny thing. And this was the one area of my life that I hadn't gotten to the point where it worked for me because it was the one place where I had the worst return on my investment. So I was like, I'm just not going to worry about it until I have more time or have a baby and now really care about it. I got really good at all the productivity tools. I got really good at, you know, like, understanding how my brain works and learning to read the error codes and, you know, dealing with motivation, dealing with my emotion dysregulation, all of that. But my house, like, that clutter, I. I have a couple episodes on it, but it just really wasn't my focus. So what you taught me, what you did to my house, just absolutely, like, click the last big thing into place for me. Except for money. I should. I need to work on that. I need to work on, like, how I. How I make and spend money. But other than that, like, it just. This is the last part of my life that was just really not ADHD friendly, and now it is, and I owe that to you. So that's just. Thank you.
- [50:58]
A
I'm so glad. Do you have you think, like a takeaway for my listeners who. Who are. Where you were. It's just like, why can't I figure out my home? And it's stressful. Do you find there's, like, some bit of advice that you would like to share with them to maybe help them take that step towards just like, ugh, easier, more effortless home?
- [51:21]
B
I think, first of all, it's possible because it is so hard for our brains. I think that it can feel futile. Like, what is even the point of trying? It's not going to work. It's never worked in my whole life. Like, it's just not happening. It's possible. That's the first thing. And the second thing is, but not by yourself. I don't think that even knowing what I know now, even having learned what you taught me, I don't think that I could do this by myself. I think I still need help. Whether that help comes in the form of asking a friend to come help or asking, you know, teaching my housekeepers, like, how to help me declutter or whatever it is. Like, I don't think this is something that I am. Like, my brain, it makes sense for me to do alone because it. It went so much faster. It was so much less painful with your help. And because my brain thinks in these really chaotic ways, like, and that's my norm. I didn't even think. Like, sometimes I couldn't even see it, right? Like, you saw issues that I didn't even see. I was like, well, yeah, like, my daughter's play area is, like, amazing. Of course this is fine. I don't need to help here. You're like, yes, you do, because you don't have enough storage. You're not using your storage space in, in the right way. So, like, if your brain, if this does not come naturally to your brain, you need the support, whether that's to, you know, watch Cass's channel, take a course, hire a professional organizer in your city, whatever it is. Like, don't try to do this by yourself if you have never been able to do it by yourself. Change something, right? Like, change it up. Like, get some help. Get some support. But know that it is possible and it's worth it.
- [52:53]
A
I love that. Thank you so much. This was so awesome. I just loved having you. And I'm going to put links to all of your awesomeness in the show notes. Because if you do not yet follow Jessica from hadadhd and if you have not yet got her book, what the heck are you Waiting for. She will change your life. She has changed my life. And I'm just so grateful for having you on the podcast. Thank you so much.
- [53:17]
B
Thanks, Cassie. You're amazing.
- [53:20]
A
I am so excited. Listen, we have something new. Clutterbug listeners. I It's a new segment because sometimes I get sick of hearing my own voice and you may too. So we are doing a talk with Cass. It needs a jingle. It needs a. We're going, we're seeing, we're running with it where you have recorded a question or a comment and I get to listen. I have not heard these yet. I'm going to hear them for time. The first, first time right now. I'm a little bit afraid, but I can't wait to answer your most pressing questions.
- [53:53]
C
Oh, Cass, girl, I found you about three weeks ago. I'm getting emotional, just starting out, but I found you about three weeks ago and you have been my body double, walking around, cleaning my house and organizing and decluttering. And you've changed my life in so many ways. The biggest area that I see is my daughter, who is now 13 and was really having some hoarding tendencies and didn't want to let go of anything. And I showed her one of your videos and she started cleaning her room and letting go of things. And it has changed our lives. And I've also gone through and decluttered about half of my house and continuing with the rest of the house over the coming weeks. And I'm just so grateful to you. I do do work from home for my business and my home office was getting out of control. Oh, I was just overwhelmed. And I have since completely transformed my area. It's a complete change for me and I feel so much more confident and I feel so much less stress trying to run my household. I'm a single mom. I homeschool my daughter. I work my regular job. I run this business. And it has been life changing already. Just getting things under control that I've gotten under control and there's so much left to do. But I see the light at the end of the tunnel and I think we'll be done in about three or four weeks. And it's just changed our lives. And I just want to say thank you. I'm just so grateful to you and all that you do.
- [56:02]
A
I feel like my producer just didn't want me to hear that, so I get emotional. Rude. Crystal, I'm so proud of you. This is. I don't often get to hear stories of people who are like, yeah, really changing their lives. It's a lot of like, I need help, I need help. So it's amazing to hear how far you've come in such a short amount of, of time. And you're like a superwoman with a cape because you're a homeschooling and running a business and also working full time. Girl, I don't know how you're doing it. I hope you listening at home really picked up on what I picked up, which is the two really important things here. The body doubling aspect is sometimes all we really need is a voice in our ear like, you're listening to this podcast right now. Sometimes all we need is to know that we're not on alone and there's someone beside us doing it at the same time for us to get up and make a difference. And that's what helped Jessica.
- [57:00]
B
Right?
- [57:00]
A
It was just really me being beside her saying, do you really want that? Yes or no? I didn't actually do much, but it was such a huge impact because someone was there besides you. So I hope you're body doubling while you're listening to this podcast again, that you're up and you're making a difference. And the other thing that I noticed that really stood out to me was having her daughter, Crystal's daughter, involved in this process because you're teaching such an important life skill, not only helping her, you know, clean her own room, but she's seeing her mom, like be a warrior. Oh, stop it. It makes me so emotional because, yeah, it's so empowering to see your parents doing hard things, things and coming out the other side. And that's how your daughter's going to learn to never struggle with clutter herself because you taught her. The other thing I loved about Crystal's message was that she just found this podcast a few weeks ago and she said she's going to be done her whole house in like another three weeks. That's what, six, seven weeks to completely change your life. And that's the thing I love the most about decluttering and organizing. And I feel like there's nothing else in the world that can have such a dramatic, long lasting, life changing impact. I could work out every day for seven weeks and not be a changed person. But you could fill a trash bag every day for seven weeks and you know, for the rest of your life have a clutter free home. And that's the real magic here, that's the real power, is huge transformations in a little bit of time. But we gotta get up and get started. Thank you so much, Crystal. For sending that amazing message. Let's hear from Heather.
- [58:50]
D
Hey, Cass.
- [58:51]
B
Good morning.
- [58:52]
D
Our decluttering journey started with trying to get out of debt. Actually we were following Dave Ramsey and we got down to the house was the next thing. So we purposed to try to get out of debt and we were willing to sell our house to move into a smaller house in order to pay cash for a house to get completely out of debt. So we sold everything we could find. A lot of things on Mercari that were only like $10. $10, $10. And we just packed up. Sold. Sold. Sold.
- [59:30]
B
Sold.
- [59:32]
D
Got rid of, got rid of, got rid of. And then looked for houses smaller. We were able to to get rid of half of our items that we used to own and move to a fresh new place with half our stuff, probably less than half our stuff. And we've been decluttering ever since. I call myself a shuffler professional because what that's what we do is shuffle. I'm, I'm still not done with it. My mother in law passed, my stepmother passed away, but she had a whole lot of craft items. So I inherited all of her crafting and I've been decluttering her crafting most recently. So it is a continuous journey. I can speak to that. But we are, with God's grace, out of debt. Seems like when you move in the right direction, he finishes it off his way.
- [60:29]
A
Oh man, I love that. First of all, Heather, you're hilarious. So thank you for that. And I love that you mentioned Dave Ramsey too, because here's the thing that I found so fascinating was how closely your finances are tied to your home organization. I have always been really bad with money and everything else. I sucked at all things in life, okay? But when I got my home under control, somehow my finances followed. Does that make sense? And I think part of it is because I stopped wasting money and rebuying things because I had organization. But I think even more importantly, I stopped living in the scarcity cycle. So when we have a lot of clutter, our brain starts to see our stuff as money and value. So when we get money, we immediately then are like, well, I better spend it before it's gone and buy more stuff. And then we're stuck in, we're stuck in this cycle of, well, now I have no money because I just bought stuff. Well, I better and next time I get paid, I don't know how long it's going to last. I better buy stuff. And we're stuck in this constant scarcity cycle of the things Feeling safe instead of the money in the bank feeling safe. And I think not only were you able to sell things so that you got money from your stuff, but now that you're living with less, I guarantee you are out of the scarcity cycle, so you're not constantly buying and accumulating like you did before. It really is an amazing miracle that you have to experience, truly understand. But it starts with letting go and somehow our finances improve as well. It's. It feels like it won't be that way, but that's exactly the outcome that always happens. So thank you, Heather, so much for sharing that story and I hope, listening, I want you to think, am I in the scarcity cycle? Do I see my things as money? Do I see it for the dollar amount? And is the stuff keeping me broke? Because nine times out of ten, that's exactly what's happening. I tried to start with the money saving aspect and I struggled because I was still subconsciously in that scarcity cycle. So I could. I had to start with my home because it's a whole lot easier when I'm feeling inspired to fill a trash bag or fill a donation box or even sell things than it is every time I'm at the store to try to fight that impulse. But the pain of letting go and the mindset shift that came with letting go meant that I didn't have to have discipline when it came to money. That was like a natural byproduct. So for me, I feel like starting with decluttering is actually easier than starting with. With trying to get your finances under control. I wanted to take a quick second to talk about the four different organizing styles. It's like a little refresh. Because I've been doing this for so long and talking about it for so many videos and podcasts, I just assume everyone on the planet already knows about this and I don't bring it up all that often. So I want to do a little refresher because meeting with Jessica really inspired me again to realize how important important it is to understand how you naturally organize. Because a lot of the times people who struggle with mess and disorganization, it's totally because they're trying to use a system that doesn't work for their brain. So let's break it down. It is a combination of how you naturally sort and how you naturally store. And when they talk about sorting, I mean, are you a person who is detailed naturally? Do you stop and think before you put something away? Do you like a lot of little categories or are you A big picture, more laid back person. I sometimes call it squirrel syndrome. But do you not think about your things when you're done with them? Do you just kind of set them down because your brain has already moved on? And this natural tendency to be a detailed sorter or a non detailed sorter makes up half of your clutterbug style and the other half is how you naturally store. Are you a really visual person? Are you someone who needs those visual cues seeing your things to remember that you own it? But also is it energizing to you to see your beautiful things? Does it motivate you? Or are you a hidden organizer? You don't forget about your things when they're out of sight. And when you see a lot of your every everyday things, you find it kind of overwhelming. This doesn't mean visual organizers like clutter. We're not talking about mess, we're talking about your bills that have to be paid. Do you have to see it to remember to pay the bill or is it okay to tuck it away in a file folder? What does the front of your fridge look like? Is it filled with photos and things that make you happy and reminders and mementos? Or do you prefer it to not really have anything at all? No one can be put into just four categories, but most people do lean towards more visual or hidden or detailed and non detailed. And it's that combination that makes up your clutterbug style. So if you're visual and non detailed, you are a beautiful butterfly. That's what I call them and that's what Jessica is. If you're visual but you're very detailed, a bit of a perfectionist. You are a bee. If you are hidden organizer, but you're very laid back and you're just shoving and hiding, you are a ladybug. Or if you're a hidden organizer, but you're very detailed and logical, a bit of a perfectionist. You are a cricket. And if you're like I'm not sure what my organizing style is and you're analyzing all the things, you're probably a bee or a cricket. Just saying. We'll talk more about the styles in the future in podcast, but you can also find lots of information on my YouTube channel Clutterbug and you can take the free quiz@clutterbug.com and if you have any specific questions about your clutterbug type or how to organize for your style, you can ask me. Just go to clutterbug.com forward/talktocas and record a question. We have another special segment for you. It's gonna get a song in the future, but we're gonna call it Mythbusters. And specifically organizing myths that I'm gonna bust. And the biggest, baddest, ugliest myth of all is that organizing will give you more space. Everyone always says, I know my space is crammed and looks like an episode of Hoarders. I just need to get get organized. And the truth is, organization takes up more space. This is the thing that's so mind blowing. You can cram a closet and shove it full, but as soon as you actually organize and zone and categorize and give things homes immediately, you're taking up a lot more space than when you're just shoving and playing Jenga. True. Organization takes up space. Only decluttering will gain you back space. And I learned this lesson over and over again every time I'm organizing a client's space when there's always stuff that won't fit at the end. And they're always like, cass. But it's so organized. Why doesn't it all fit? Because, my friend, organization means breathing room. Organization means categories. Organization means that you can can easily see and find everything you have and you can put it away just as quickly. And that, my friend, takes up space. And I could talk about this all day. In fact, I will talk about this in an upcoming podcast or video something. I'm going to make a mental note right now because it is such an important message that has to be shared because it is a myth. And if you are like, I need more space. You don't need a bigger house. You don't need a storage locker. You need less stuff. Want to hear some cool things that are going on with me this week? I am finally building my bee platform. So my bees that were supposed to be delivered last weekend, they're a little bit late because the weather, so they haven't been producing as many baby eggs. So I'm waiting for my nuke box, they call it, to be picked up, which is good because we didn't get our crap together in time to build our platform platform. Because our backyard floods and we have to build an ark, a bee arc. And it's going to be like a gorgeous bee arc in the sky for my new beekeeping bee. So that's exciting. And I'm going to make sure to video that also. What's going on with me this week? Tonight is firefighter training, and I am cutting apart cars, which I'm very excited about. So we have four Old beater cars delivered to the station. And they just give me giant cutters, which some people call the jaws of life. We have cutters and we have spreaders. Each are 60 pounds, okay? And then cash just goes wild on the cars, and I smash glass and I cut doors off, and I take the whole hood off, and I roll the dash, and I just chop that car into tiny little pieces. And it feels amazing. You know how there's, like, people who pay to go to these smash places, and they, like, break things with sledgehammers because they're stressed? I get paid to do that at fire. They pay me to do that at firefighting. I play with the biggest scissors you've ever seen in your entire life that literally will cut apart a car like paper. And then sometimes I get to do that in real life with people trapped in the car like a badass. And I get paid for it. So that is what I'm doing tonight. I'm super excited. I don't know if this is gonna ever wear off, but, like, I. I'm really into the whole firefighting thing. I think everyone should give it a try. What else is going. That's it, mostly. Oh, wait, I thought of something else. We're redoing our. Our basement kitchen right now. Why? Because I have this, like, basement kind of apartment when we bought this house that we turned into the office. And my kids are going to be home for the summer. And every time I'm filming anything in the kitchen, those little. They're. They eat a lot. Three teenagers. They're always hungry, and they're, like, walking in the shot and making a sandwich. And I'm like, it's two in the afternoon, and I'm trying to film a video here. So we're gonna do. Do a basement kitchen so that my kids aren't interrupting us while they eat all the food. So that's exciting. And I'm going to make sure to show you that kitchen transformation, too, which I think we're going to, like, combine styles because Emily's a bee and Mara and I are ladybugs. So how do you make a kitchen that's for multiple styles? I'm going to show you, so stay tuned for that. I'm really into the new segments in this podcast, so let's just. Let's just try on another segment for. For a second. I'm not sure what we're going to call it. I think, like, the Dating Game or Decluttering Dinosaurs. I don't. I want you to help come up with a Name. This would be so fabulous if you could help come up with a name. But basically, the concept is the weirdest or more importantly, the oldest thing you found while decluttering your home. And we already have a submission. We're going to hear from Allison to hear what the old oldest thing is that she has found. I have not heard this yet, I'm afraid. I have found so many. I've found petrified cats. I've found people's teeth. Let's see.
- [71:54]
E
Hey, Cass, it's Allison from Massachusetts, and just wanted to tell you probably the weirdest thing that I ever decluttered. So, several years ago, the cat that I had, she had surgery because she was peeing blood everywhere. And turns out she had bladder stones. So when I went to pick her up from the vet after the surgery, they gave them to me. They were like the shape of pop Rocks, and they were like tiny little stone things. And they pulled six. They pulled 12 out. They kept six for testing, and they sent me home with six. And I thought it was a good idea to save them. I have no idea why. So several years later, I found the little vial and opened it up, and it really smelled not so good. So I did throw them out. But that was probably the weirdest thing that I've decluttered. Just wanted to share that story with you.
- [72:52]
A
Thank you for sharing that, Allison. It was a super weird thing for your vet to even suggest you bring that home with you. And I will not judge you because my children had surgery and had teeth removed, and they were not ready to come out. So it had, like, the full fang. And for some reason, I kept them also. They, like, gave them to me. And then I kept them with all the other teeth. The human teeth from my children, the hu. Some of them. I look like a serial killer. And you know where I had them? In my purse. Allison. I just drove around like a psychopath. Imagine going through security in the. In the trap, many times flying with just a bag of human teeth like some insane person. They have since been decluttered. But I feel you, Allison. You are not alone, though that is very weird. Okay, clutter bugs, I love spending time with you today. I hope you are proud. How much did you get done? Sometimes it feels like, oh, I didn't make that much, much progress. But what left your house today? Or what chores did you catch up on? How does your entranceway look? Or did you at least get a load of laundry put away? All of this is moving the needle forward. I want you to pat yourself on the back and celebrate the progress because you are amazing and you are a warrior. Literally kicking your house's butt. So I hope you enjoyed. I hope you're feeling inspired. If you missed it, make sure that you go to my YouTube channel and check out that makeover over video with Jessica McCabe from How to ADHD. It's posted on my channel. Let me just tell you, it was three days of. Absolutely it was. When I tell you that her place was messy, chaotic, insane. I am not exaggerating. You will have to see for yourself. Insane, but also three days. Just Joe and I. Wait till you see the transformation.