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Clutterbug - Real-Life Hacks and Tips to Declutter, Organize and Clean your Home Fast
Procrastination Sucks: Let's Fix It Together| Clutterbug Podcast #327
00:59:20
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- [00:00]
A
I really struggle with procrastination and I feel like I go in waves and sometimes it's worse than others. And right now I'm in a rut. Let me just say I'm in a. I'm in a deep hole of despair. And what's happening is I started a bunch of projects. I was really ambitious. I was like, this is going to be amazing. And I didn't realize how much actual work and effort they were going to be. So I didn't finish them. And now I'm dreading going back and finishing. I'm procrastinating. Procrastinating a bunch of projects that not only are adding to clutter because of all the supplies, but it's stopping me from doing other things. When you are procrastinating on something you know you should be doing, it means you feel guilt and shame. Having fun even, or starting anything new. And you're stuck in this limbo of time wasting, waiting, waiting for motivation. Waiting to actually, like get the oomph. And also denying yourself doing anything else because you should be doing xyz. So today we're going to finish an unfinished project. Today we're going to get something off our to do list and we're going to talk about how to tackle procrastination once and for all. I have an awesome interview today, but before we get into that, I want to help inspire you and pick something that you can work on today while you're listening. That is an unfinished project. You are not allowed, okay. To just sit and listen or watch. I want you to get up and take action and feel the, like, borrow my energy because I am feeling super energized today. And get something done. Maybe you have pictures you've been saying you were going to hang forever and they're just leaning up against the wall. Grab some nails and a hammer and do it. Shitty. Just up is better than in a pile till perfect later. Or maybe you've started to declutter, but you never actually finished that draw or that shelf. Maybe you have laundry that you put in the washer, then in the dryer and now it's just sitting there. That counts as an unfinished project. Let's close the loop. Let's get something done that's been on your list. And the best way to declutter a half finished project that you really don't even want to finish is just to throw that mother freaking thingy out. Okay, you started a quilt six years ago, put it in the trash. You. You started knitting and you never finished. Put it in the trash. You started painting that bookcase and then gave up and it's been in your freaking garage. Pull it to the curb, my friend. Today we are finishing projects anyway. Every way, as fast and as messily as possible. So on your mark, get set, go forth and be a completer. Let's start by defining what procrastination actually is and what it isn't. It isn't a time management issue. I think that's what we all assume, right? Like we don't have the time or we're waiting for the time. It also isn't a laziness thing. It's about self regulation and our inability to self regulate. Most of the time when we're procrastinating something, it's because we're trying to avoid discomfort. We're trying to avoid potential failure or judgment or shame or. Yeah, just all the emotions that come with uncertainty. And I am doing this, I'm procrastinating right now, finishing my vegetable garden. Because when I started it, it was so much harder than I thought and it was like completely overwhelming. And now I'm worried and I know this. I'm worried that it's not going to turn out the way I envisioned in my mind. And so I'm scared, I guess, to finish it. I'm also scared about the amount of work that it's going to entail. It's going to be uncomfortable. So my brain is protecting me by procrastination. Sometimes procrastinating looks like planning. It looks like making lists because we're trying to ease that discomfort. Sometimes it looks like perfectionism, like we're gonna wait until we have the perfect plan or more money or we can do it right. Sometimes procrastination looks like busy work. So instead of doing this, oh, we're just going to do all this stuff first. But at the end of the day, it's still avoidance. Avoidance disguised in a business suit sometimes. But procrastination and perfectionist paralysis, it's all the same thing. I was going to say a lot of high achievers procrastinate too. Doctors procrastinate. People who have their lives together still procrastinate. This is a universal issue issue. It is human nature. And it looks differently, I think for everyone and sometimes it looks different for us day to day. But at the end of the day, we still need, we still need tools to overcome it and to start self regulating properly so we can get stuff done. The best way that I've overcome procrastination is, well, two things. One, I just have to get started because it's the getting started that's the hardest, right? And I need the momentum to carry me through. So. So I will tell myself I only have to do something for five minutes. I don't have to finish it. I just have to take one little baby step and it can be. This is the second part. As shitty as I want it to be, this is the whole philosophy of doing it shitty. It was the expectations that are the scariest part sometimes and the. The fear of failure. So what if you go into something like purposely trying to suck on purpose, then you can't fail. It takes the fear, it takes the unknown. It takes the possible shame and judgment of trying and not doing it right in the first place. It takes all that off the table because you're. You're sucking on purpose, my friend. So when I think about the veggie garden and the fact that I'm procrastinating finishing it, we still had grass I had to remove underneath, and I wanted to, like, lay cardboard and stuff down so the weeds didn't come up. And I wanted to cut everything perfectly and measure. And I was like, joe, we're rolling this crap out over top of the grass and we're dumping some mulch on top to pretend like we worked hard on this. Okay? We're just doing this, and we're only doing it for five minutes right now. And if we're not done, we're not done. And he's like. Because he's also a bit of a perfectionist, he's like, no, Cass. And I'm like, dude, this will be till next summer if we don't just take shitty action right now? But this approach helps everywhere. No matter what you're procrastinating doing, what can you do in five minutes? That's bad. Just to get started. Just like I talked about, five minutes. I think a timer is also really powerful because it helps gamify things. It sort of shuts off that overthinking brain. And that's what procrastination really is. It's avoidance, right? It's us, like, ruminating about all the possible outcomes and thinking about how much work something's going to be and how long it's going to take. When we set a timer, it is giving us this, like, brain shift that we need. Whether we're saying, I'm only going to do something for five minutes and setting a timer, or we set a timer to see how quickly we can get something done. Both of those are incredibly effective tools because they rewire our brain in that moment to only be thinking about doing this as fast as possible. And that is so magical. The other thing that's really awesome about having a timer is that we don't have to be done the whole project now. Like, what does that even look like? This could take days. We're done. When the timer's done, it gives us this finite part of, like, we made it, which means we get to get the most important part about being productive and having momentum, which is dopamine. Dopamine is the reward chemical in our brain that we get that gives us this sense of, like, ah, I'm so proud of myself. And makes us want to do more. It's the reward part that we're missing. So when we start a project and don't finish it, even if we've worked for, like, four hours and we've given it our all, we're not getting the dopamine hit. That can make it easy for us to come back or to do something else or to finish the thing. But setting a timer means if we're like, oh, we did five minutes. Celebrate, celebrate, celebrate. We get that dopamine hit. That's why timers are, like, absolutely powerful. I think that's what I love so much about this podcast is I. Together, we're motivating each other. And I hope when you're listening to this, that you are using this kind of as a timer, because you only have till the end of this podcast to do the awesome things that you're doing. Or I'm body doubling with you, and you're borrowing motivation from me because I'm super excited about you getting your fricking life together and your house in order. And sometimes when we try to wait for that motivation or hope it just manifests on its own, it doesn't come. It's okay to use an external tool, and this podcast right here could be that tool, that part that, like, gets you up and gets you moving. And I love reading the comments of all the things that you are accomplishing during our hour together. And today we have a special treat because we are talking to the procrastination coach herself, psychologist Dr. Christine Lee. Hello, welcome, Dr. Lee, to the Clutterbug podcast.
- [10:00]
B
Hi, Kaz. Thank you so much for having me here. Such a pleasure.
- [10:04]
A
I've been really enjoying your reels on Instagram. I love that you're talking about clutter, but you are like a procrastination coach and a procrastination expert. I'm curious, how does one Become a procrastination coach and expert. I mean, you're. You're a doctor, but did you just see this coming up with your patients over and over again?
- [10:27]
B
Well, my first answer was that I saw it as an available URL online and I thought to myself, well, this needs to be taken right away. This was many, many years ago already. And yes, I had been working procrastinators already and I had already realized in my own life that procrastination was something you can actually get rid of, be parted ways with, and have a completely different life from. And so, as you can imagine, and I think you've gone through the same kind of experience, you need to tell everybody who will listen after that. So that's essentially how I did it. And I've just been curious all my life about habits and what makes people tick and what makes each other similar and different. And procrastination just fit right in there as a topic that was endlessly interesting, endlessly irritating at the same time. And I just have had a wonderful time online and off finding new ways to do things, finding new ways to relax and finding new ways to teach people.
- [11:45]
A
Do you. Do you think, like, procrastination is a common problem? I always feel like everyone procrastinates. But do you think like, it's worse than we think? Do you think like this is a chronic condition that we struggle with?
- [11:59]
B
I think procrastination is worse than we see it. I think that's the way I'm going to answer that. Each of us certainly has the capacity to procrastinate. I do believe we all have in the past. Although I've met two men in my life who claim never to have procrastinated. And that's fine. That's totally fine. And what I've seen is the internal, unspoken, maybe unrecognized toll of procrastinating. You are not really calculating the beautiful things you could be enjoying and being and having without the procrastination. So sometimes the difficulty of the procrastination is not seeing that there are alternatives. If you don't address the original trigger reason instigating event, then we're going to be vulnerable to it because it's live, it's not tucked away, it's not handled, it's not forgiven from within. And then we carry it around like it's an extra bag of tricks that we have to show everybody, remember to maintain and remember to be afraid about. And that's the thing so clutter. Sometimes we're afraid of it. Sometimes we're not. Procrastination always is kind of like a plug in your soul. Like, you can't express your true energy fully when you're procrastinating.
- [13:33]
A
I love that. And I love that you're talking about clutter, because for me, like, I used to procrastinate everything all the time, and when I really dug deep into it, I think there was some fear there and a lot of lack of confidence. I procrastinated because I. I was, like, so mean to myself that it was almost like, you're gonna fail anyways, and it's. Oh, it's too big, and it's gonna take you forever, because everything you do takes forever. And it became like, ah. And why I love that you talk about clutter. I just watched a reel, actually, that you had posted about the negative self talk. I do think that my chronic negative self talk was a huge reason I procrastinated. And. And when it comes to clutter, clutter is talking negatively to 24 7. So it's like amplifying this, which then makes the procrastination worse, which then makes the negative self talk. So I was stuck on this cycle. And are you seeing that with your clients as well? Like, is this why you really are talking a lot about clutter? Because are other people having the same experience?
- [14:41]
B
They truly are. And I'm sure your audience is very much overlapping with mine and very much in the same trap. And yes, I agree that the negative language is the facilitator, is the bridge between us and our space and our troubles, honestly. And, yes, the clutter is talking to us. Yes, it's not very nice. And have taught my audience that I feel the brain likes congruence, which means that things match. And so if your outer environment is yelling at you and part of your inner environment is yelling at you, you're done. You're done for the day. No more work needs to be handled. And that therefore leads to the importance of clearing all this up, because it enables you to be clear from the inside. And it can happen from the inside out and the outside in. But the point is, it has to happen.
- [15:46]
A
I struggled in every area of my life. And so I had a lot of negative self talk. I was morbidly obese. I really struggled financially. I wasn't great at reli. There was no area. It was like, all of adulting I sucked at so hard. But the truth is, I would sometimes, like, forget I was fat. That's. I did. I would. Because I wasn't looking in a mirror. I wasn't thinking about it. I would sometimes forget I was broke. Unless I was trying to pay a bill or at the store. I would forget a lot of this and just be living my life. I could never forget the clutter because everywhere I looked, it was every. Like if I was home, everywhere I looked it was crap. And that was emotionally exhausting. But I also, on the other hand, I was procrastinating it. But, but on the other side of that, that was the easiest one to fix because I always say this, and I'm going to say it again, I could run on a treadmill for 15 minutes and just be kind of sweaty, but nothing would have changed. Like, it takes long term, consistent work with finances, with relationships, with any type of inner work. In 15 minutes you could fill a trash bag and see immediate results. You know what I mean? So I, I could have went to therapy, Dr. Lee, and spent a lot of time working on. But instead I started radically decluttering and organizing in these short little chunks. And every aspect of my life improved because removing the clutter removed a huge part of the negative self talk. And I started being confident. Instead of negative self talk, I would walk into a room and be like, ooh, you got your life together, girl.
- [17:27]
B
That is the beauty of decluttering. It really is. And I found that you don't even have to finish the decluttering for that kind of positive energy to start flowing your way, which is just the biggest clue. And I tend to work with women in midlife, so older women and women beyond midlife. And sometimes it's been a very, very long time that the accumulation has been happening. So generations of accumulated information, history, sentimental items, important, valuable items, documents, all those things. And then the. What has been missing in all those years has been the positive energy flow. And so thank you for sharing your story because it's fantastic and it is true. This is available to everyone. That's the thing. Curing yourself from procrastination is also available to anyone. Doesn't matter where you live, what you look like, or your finances and your financial status. It is about your own energy and how you're deciding to deploy it or to conserve it. And we're going to just change the way you think about it so that you have extra, so that you get extra. And then it's this beautiful cycle where life becomes transformed.
- [18:58]
A
I love this. Okay, so bestow your wisdom on us, my listeners. They're probably right now just like, I know I need to tackle my closet. I know I need to do this Juncture. I know I need to deal with my doom room or the clutter on the counter. But they're procrastinating, probably because they're stuck in this loop of I don't have the time. I don't know what it's going to look like, this negative self talk. It's not going to work out. And so what is a step that they can take right now to overcome that procrastination loop?
- [19:28]
B
Well, in those examples that you just gave those I don't have time, all of those statements have the word not in it. They're all statements of lack. They're all negative statements. And if you really check your language first, if you decide I only speak to myself in clean language, in quotes, if you're watching us on video and I only speak to myself, words that will lift me up, that won't bring me down. And that's a trick for some of us who grew up and went into our later years with this intense negative self talk. It needs to go. And one way to facilitate that is to go into coaching or some program or get into a group, get other people to help you listen to yourself. The other angle, if you don't feel like that's within your means or you just don't want to do that right at the moment, is to forgive yourself for everything that has happened prior to this very moment. It's like two different lifetimes happening. We're putting aside the one that was cluttered, that was negative, that procrastinated, that didn't show up for herself or himself when they wanted. And we're saying, today, I can do that for myself. So again, you initiate the positive language. You initiate a very minimal. My style of teaching is you touch one to three items a day, and I say that you touch one random envelope that you've scribbled notes on, you've tossed it away. That works. That is that arc of before, middle, and after where you get to see yourself following through on your own wishes. The congruence starts to reshape and it shapes you into someone who gets things done. So that handles the clutter and the procrastination habit. You don't need either.
- [21:33]
A
I love this. See, I. I feel like I'm not a. I'm not a psychologist, but here we go. I, I should have went to therapy. I would have saved myself a few years, but I learned that, yeah, these little tiny steps. I would say I only have to find five things today, or I only have to do five minutes today. And then I would Fake celebrate the success. And for me, I have adhd, so I think that fake celebration, like, even though I was like, you have so much more to do and that didn't even really make a difference, I'd be like, stop it, you nasty Nelly. And I would like, I'd be like, you're amazing. Look what you did. And it, I didn't believe it, but I like move my body like I did and I celebrated. I high five myself, whatever. And it did something to my brain a little bit. It kind of rewarded me. Maybe dopamine, I don't know. But I started instead. When I would look at something, instead of saying, oh, you need to get to that later, I would say, I wonder how much of that I could do in five minutes. And I, My brain changed and I started feeling instead of like, I don't want to tackle that. I'm going to wait till later making, oh, I have to better plan all the procrastination. I started being like a little zest because I knew it would give me a perk. Kind of like a drug addict. Dr. Lee.
- [22:52]
B
Yes. Kind of someone who could benefit from a little bit of dopamine and a little bit of good, good, good juju, for lack of a better word. It's very psychological. It's just like we like to see good events happening. Our brain likes to see us celebrating because it's a cue. Oh, she wants more of that. Oh, he wants more of that. And then what do, what do we see? We see different areas of the home and getting lighter. Maybe again, not completely all set up like a hotel, but lighter. More space, less guilt, less of that greeting you at the front door with all of the yelling moments. No more. We can just fix that one space and say, ah, that was great practice. I love this body brain. Let's do this more. Let's do this in the morning again.
- [23:46]
A
And we. I love that you said lighter because I do feel like I became lighter as a person and I stopped being this, I don't want to say victim, but, oh, you know, oh, every. And I suck at everything and everything's terrible and it's so much work to. Yes, I was dealing with the clutter, but that practice of little chunks and celebrating progress then dripped out to other areas and I was like, well, I'm in debt up to my eyeballs, but instead of ordering this pizza, I'm gonna put $30, like towards my debt. Woo. Celebrate. And. And so I almost trained my brain. I tricked my brain into seeing progress as like this really beautiful Thing instead of seeing it as it's. It's not even close to enough. And I've got so much further to go. I had to catch myself. And I catch, when I work with clients, I see that they're doing this thing. They will be decluttering for a few minutes and say, I say, so how's it going? How are you feeling? Oh, that was really hard. As soon as I say, but you did it and look how much you. Their entire energy changes. So I see what you're saying about working with a coach, but I also think if that isn't a possibility, you can positively coach yourself when you catch yourself having those negative thoughts and you even fake some of the positive ones.
- [25:10]
B
Yes, yes, I think we do feel it. I feel it in a. In my cells. You know, I feel it like we are our, our bodies are radars and they're sensitive and they're informing us all the time. So how could they not recognize the change? How could they not recognize that we're doing something good and healthy for ourselves? How could they not recognize the lift off from the negativity? It's a dramatic change. And like you're saying, our brains are being rewired as we do this, this, we're using our hands, we're using our space in a different way and we are just such magical beings. The clutter just is a damper on our magic and we need to release it. We need to release it. It's important. It's just important for our well being. That's what I do. Yeah.
- [26:08]
A
Okay, so my listeners right now, like I love that you say just touch a few things a day. Is there something else they can do to overcome that procrast and be that jumpstart?
- [26:19]
B
You have to change your identity in some way. There has to be room in the picture of who you see yourself to be to be the person to get rid of that mug that you thought you loved, that maybe you do even love, but you no longer want to be cleaning every day and stuffing into that overfilled cabinet. So once it's done in the mind, I know it can be done in space, with my fingers, with my cabinet. And if I'm not envisioning my wish, it's just like any other thought I might have floating, fleeting, maybe random, maybe irrational, maybe will happen one day. But when you decide. So I'm a big fan of efficiency because I am on the slower side by nature just to. I tend to overcomplicate things. I tend to complain sometimes. I tend to not See all the options when I'm feeling a little bit stuck in the mud. So when I remind myself, oh, yeah, but there's gotta be a way that's faster. I get excited, I get to thinking, and then when I get into action, that is faster. Action is faster than thought. You can think all day long. You can have the nicest, brightest thoughts, but that doesn't compare to moving those things over to the curb.
- [27:45]
A
Yes, sometimes planning is a prison. I do feel like that where. Like, where all the things you want to get done go to die. Because it feels like progress when we're thinking about it. We're going to have a plan, and we're going to write down the steps we need to take and the things we need to buy. But that feels like progress, but we're not actually moving. And then we kind of hide behind that because it's like, well, I'm working towards it, but we haven't done the thing that actually worked towards it, which is take that one tiny step. But that can feel so hard for people, especially if they're like I was and really lacking the confidence. So I. I love so much that you said start with identity, because I. That's like. You're so right. I'm thinking back to the beginning. I. Not that mantras fix everything, but I would say I deserve a clean kitchen every morning. I will not settle for less. I am a person who has a clean kitchen. My kitchen looked like something out of an episode of Hoarders when I was saying this.
- [28:49]
B
Yes.
- [28:50]
A
But I tried to change the way. I tried to change my identity.
- [28:55]
B
The truth is that you. You do deserve a clean kitchen. Right. So we can say that we're faking it, but there is a truth to that, that that is a. An avenue of possibility that you can walk down and you just have to use the words and you just have to match that with the action. And then any of us, again, can have what Kaz has created, this new being, this new identity, or like, oh, wow, I say something and it happens.
- [29:27]
A
It's a wonderful recipe, and it doesn't happen overnight. And I think that's another thing that sometimes in the beginning was a bit disappointing because I was like, oh, I work so hard and it still isn't perfect. First of all, there's no such thing as perfect. And second of all, I had to reframe and celebrate the little progress. Like, but look how much better it is. Which is why I think taking a before picture can be really powerful of a mess. So a pile a Junk drawer, your bedroom right now. And then take a photo after 10 minutes of progress and really look at the difference and stop your brain for when it's like, but look, there's still that pile. And this doesn't look that much better. And no, we catch those thoughts and we throw them right in the trash. We declutter those, too, and we're like, but look what I've done. So, so good. Okay. Do you think there's a misconception that people have about procrastination, that it's like laziness? Or is. Is there something that's like a big
- [30:29]
B
misconception that it's some sort of character flaw? And if you see it as part of your character, then why would you in the world want to reveal it to everyone? Why would you want to go near it? And why would that. It could be shifted? Because characters pretty much set in stone, right? So, yes, I actually don't believe in the term lazy. For me, lazy is you're at the beach and you don't have work to do, that you feel a certain way. But I have found that the procrastinators that work with me and the people struggling with clutter who work with me, none of that. They're all very motivated, actually. So it's kind of the opposite of what a lazy might be, that lying on the beach, these are people who are just trying to figure out how to turn the engine on. They're not not wanting to drive. Whether it's procrastination, clutter, or any other issue that you're struggling with, there is an answer for it. And. And the reason why your energy feels stuffed in a closet is because there's something blocking it. And that's wonderful news, because that means you can remove the block.
- [31:47]
A
My procrastination was sneaky. It would do a little work project that wasn't really important and didn't actually push the needle forward, but still felt like I was doing something just to avoid the thing I really should have been doing. And I see this with my loved one quite often. They're like, I'm busy. I'm. I'm. I'm not. I'm not doing nothing. But they're not actually. They're planning, they're researching, they're evaluating, they're making lists. They're. All of. That is a form, I believe, of procrastination, because it's almost the worst kind, because it feels like progress.
- [32:26]
B
I agree with you that it's a sneaky brain, but I also think it's the genius brain. Because the brain might need a very sneaky route to protect you from overdoing it. And that's the brain's main job anyway, to just make sure you don't blow all of your energy all at once. And so it's going to help you come up with that creative idea of, oh, let's do more research. Oh, let's figure out another way. Oh, maybe you don't want to go there on vacation and you're on some other path. So it's sneaky and it's genius. But we again, have to get that thinking on board with us with our main goals. So the setting the vision is going to help you. Instead of figuring out all of your future trips all at once, we're going to figure out one beautiful one. The brain needs a place to land. Procrastination is triggered by overwhelm, where we're wanting to do all the things, we're looking at all the clutter and we're thinking we want it all to go away. But it takes time. So we need to calm the sneakiness. We need to elevate the genius. We need to do it step by step, and we need to do it over time. But it is not rocket science. And you do deserve everything on the other side of this. And you will be delighted with yourself when you get there.
- [33:52]
A
Yeah, there's so many things I'm thinking of my loved one who's procrastinate. There's so many, like, I want to do this and I want to build the gardens and I want to do this and I got to do this. And it's overwhelming because. And I'm so guilty of this too, with all these ideas, I haven't really identified what's the most important. So my brain doesn't have that. That goal, that place to, like, go towards. How would you suggest that someone who's listening pick their top priorities and their,
- [34:23]
B
like, North Star brain dumps are some of the best things ever invented. It's really great for just saying this is manageable. If I could write it down, it means their tasks. All that needs to happen is I get to them and I check them off. When left in the brain, it's a big mess.
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A
Right.
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B
And then we can't see anything that would rise to the level of a priority. And I just say, okay, I'm going to do number one, and then I'm going to do number two, and then I'm going to rotate and I call that toggling. So I don't deal with that priority in a way that is going to overwhelm me. But I make sure that I attend to it. And you can everybody who's listening, you can design your own system, but do decide on a system that works for your brain and body, your life circumstances, your clutter situation, put the time in and it will pay your time back. That's the thing we think, oh, if I declutter, there goes my day. But you know what? Guess what happens? Your space will then feed your heart and your soul and your schedule every day from that point on.
- [35:36]
A
I love it. Yeah, I'm a huge fan of I, I have notebooks everywhere just like this and I brain dump every week I brain dump all the things and it's like very overwhelming that I'm like, this is not your to do list cast, calm down, you don't have to do everything on here. And then I just circle my top three. And sometimes it's really hard to pick what those top three are. But I'm like, well, you know which one feels so good? And I've started doing something where every day I just have three things that I'd like to do and then I add three fun things because in my procrastination I in the height of it and still now sometimes I would procrastinate fun too because it felt like I can't do that because I should be doing this. But then I would procrastinate that and I would end up just doing some random crap that's making no one happy. So I do the three, three things that I pick from my brain dump and then I don't look at my brain dump because that's stressful. And then three fun or rewarding energizing things that have nothing to do with productivity.
- [36:40]
B
Get one of those old manila folders with two sides. Put maybe 3 to 5 post its on one side and when, when any one of those tasks is done, you put the post it on the other side of the folder. It's a simple visual kind of rewarding system that will remind you we're only focusing here. And guess what? We've got four more to go. And we're all doing that in some way. And many of us are doing it in the head, only in the brain, not on paper. And I'm going to really suggest that it's valuable, it's useful to see and sort and do everything with the pen and paper or with your computer, but get it out of your head so your head is free and uncluttered as we're Learning these tips and strategies, we're also getting older and we're also developing as human beings, even in midlife and beyond. I do feel that procrastination is a reflection of our tenderness and our vulnerability and the part of us that isn't quite ready or geared up or prepared by life to handle sometimes regular fears, regular challenges of day to day life. So we really need to be tender with the person or with ourselves if we happen to be the person to think, oh, in order to change, I'm gonna have to face all of these negative thoughts and stereotypes of what a person with clutter or procrastination is. That's the. The very thing that's most scary to people. So I don't know if it's surprising, but it is important. It is important work to uncover and release people and ourselves from that kind of trap of shame. And I'm not good enough and I'm not worthy, and I don't get to experience life the way that other people can.
- [38:40]
A
Yeah. I want to share something that I've noticed and kind of a tool that I use, especially with clients. And I'm now writing a book about it, which is bonkers. But I'd love your opinion. I noticed people who had the messiest homes, the most clutter were actually very like, they had a perfectionist mindset. They put extremely high expectations on themselves. And it was those expectations that were that roadblock because it was like, well, I need, you know, it has to be a certain way and I have to do things a certain way, and I don't have time to do it that way. And if they can't finish it right at what's worth it all.
- [39:20]
B
I've seen a good percentage, good portion of my clientele struggle with that. It is just like running an endless treadmill. And we barely like doing 20 minutes on the treadmill, let alone a lifetime of this treadmill feeling. So that's my feeling about perfectionism. It can be very damaging to people's spirit, I think.
- [39:44]
A
And sometimes I think people don't like, I. I will say, oh, you're, you're a perfectionist. And my clients will say, I'm not a perfectionist. Look at my house, it's a disaster. And I got stains on my shirt and everything's everywhere. And I don't think perfectionism means you are perfect. This is what I'll say to clients who I can tell are really struggling. I will say, okay, okay. You have so many dishes. It's crazy. Pants, let's not rinse Them, let's put them right in the dishwasher without rinsing. And they'll be like, I couldn't possibly. Or listen, your laundry is out of control. Let's just throw it in the drawer and not even fold it. And they'll be like, no, everything will be no, I couldn't possibly. And so when I encourage people to practice doing it badly, I call it doing it shitty. And just like, like experience that and celebrate at least it's done. That can sometimes crack through the procrastination because it's like, oh, I, I don't, I could always go back and do it better later, but I can make progress right now. And that's this really, I've seen this like life changing thing when people actually try doing things badly. It, it's just, it breaks down all those barriers that, that we put in our brain so we can take that first step.
- [41:05]
B
The brain is this giant force within us that we really have to figure it out. We have to figure out how to cooperate with the power of our brain. And it could just be a really fun mind game of okay, let's try the complete opposite. And I think when you say let's just put the dishes in there, let's just get going. That is basically teaching them without words, without all the instruction, that you can bypass all the words in your head just by moving your hands. You're getting people into action. Action is where the results are. You're not going to see the results that you really crave without that important action. And I think making it easier is the key.
- [41:51]
A
Oh, I love it. Okay, do you have any other words of wisdom you would like to, to lend my listeners?
- [41:58]
B
We are a part of the universe and like the universe, we operate on two principles. And those are fun and expansion. And I think we've covered these topics back and forth in this interview. So thank you for that. And you want to think to yourself, if I'm not having fun and, or it's not causing me to expand my energy, my spirit, my space, then I might be doing something that I don't necessarily want to be engaging in.
- [42:32]
C
So.
- [42:32]
B
And when I heard that for the first time, I thought really there are two principles. That's it. Those are the ones. I was just very doubtful. And from that point on I found that that wisdom really carries through.
- [42:48]
A
What if cleaning the toilet doesn't expand you or is not fun? Because sometimes, and I like, I love that reframe and I'm thinking in my own life, but it's like some Chores are just things that we gotta do. Can we think of those differently in the way of fun or expansion to kind of make that our new identity? As you said earlier, it's maybe not
- [43:10]
B
the toilet that we're thinking differently of, but we're thinking about ourselves differently. The toilet will always need to be refreshed, but it's the fact that we've become the person who's not bothered by the toilet or who enjoys the clean bathroom. Then again, we've got this congruence. We've got the beautiful bathroom and we've got the beautiful self picture. And I love that for people as, as a joyful experience of yourself and your home. They go hand in hand.
- [43:43]
A
And I love how you are. You're talking about taking action, but you're also bringing it back to the feeling and the why and how. It is important that you feel like this joy and this happiness and this fun in your life and that we can do both. We can do the. The hard stuff, but we can do it from a place of fun and expansion. So, so good. So how can my listeners follow you and where do you want them to go? To Lear about you.
- [44:12]
B
Thank you so much. I am procrastination coach on TikTok, Instagram Facebook as well.
- [44:19]
A
Thank you for being here. I think procrastination is something we all struggle with and you've got some amazing ideas and real steps that can help people break free. I couldn't imagine saying I'm a person who never procrastinates, but you make me think it might be possible. So thank you. I have to take a second to thank today's podcast sponsor, Cozy Earth. It has been hot up in here in Canada. Okay. I don't know. I'm pretty sure the weather's bipolar, but on those hot nights when we don't have the air on and I look at the temperature and it says 78 degrees and I'm dying because I'm perimenopausal. I am so grateful for my Cozy Earth sheets. Here's the strange thing. Like, I want my bed to feel cool, but I can't have any body part hanging out under the covers because Freddy Krueger might come and get me. I need to be fully covered. And so my Cozy Earth she. Not only are they these, like, soft, oh my gosh, luxurious, but they're temperature regulating. So I literally can be fully covered and still feel cool. Go to cozyearth.com right now and use my coupon code clutterbug to save up to 20%. Again, that's cozyearth.com use the code clutterbug to save 20%. And I definitely recommend the sheet set. The biggest takeaway from this interview was definitely that correlation, that link between procrastination and identity. Because again, procrastination is our brain protecting us from the unknown, from potential failure, from hurt feelings or shame. And. And if we're always talking negatively, if we're saying I'm lazy and I'm disorganized and why even bother? It's not gonna work out anyways because I suck, of course we're procrastinating. Of course we're not feeling motivated or energized to get started. But what if we can reframe? What if we can train our brain to start looking at the mess and the clutter not as a reflection of our moral failing, but instead as a problem we get to solve? What if we get to be the hero of our home? What if we get to start telling ourselves that, like, it doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to be better. And I am the CEO and the boss of my stuff. And I'm going to find a solution to make it happen. I'm going to be a lazy wizard. I'm going to figure out a way to still be the same person I am and be a little lazy, but have things tidy. And what does that look like? And how can I get excited about my new. Put your new project manager hat on. My new identity as a person who fixes stuff that's going wrong. All right, it's time for a new and super fun segment called oh, hell no. Where I rant for 60 seconds about something that I just find preposterous. Are you ready? Today we're talking about politics. Here's the thing. I am not judging. I'm just gonna say here in Canada, you, whoever you vote for is like, nobody knows that is not part of your identity. And so I feel find it so weird because I live close to Detroit, so I get a lot of news from the US that in the US People actually know who other people vote for. And more than that, it's part of their identity. Like, I'm a Democrat or I'm a Republican. I don't even know who Joe voted for in the last election. He doesn't know who I vote for. We just don't talk about it. We don't care. It's like a personal thing. I don't ask people's weight. I also don't ask their political idealization is that the word it doesn't matter. The other thing is we vote vote for the change we want. Not a like a color or a party. I just find that super odd. I don't know where this came from and I want to know in the comments below not what your political party that you vote for is because I find that stupid, but why? This is part of the identity. It's weird. It's weird. Friends. All right, let's do a little talk to Cass and we're going to start with a question from Alyssa. I am a business owner that works in healthcare. I am looking for advice on how to address staff and co workers different organizational styles. I am a ladybug and my husband who is part owner is a B. So there are definitely multiple different organizational types within the office. My main question is how do we put systems in place that allow our business business to stay organized and professional looking as well as being able to keep cleaning systems in place for staff to follow instructions on. I know that you have addressed different styles of organization in a household between family members, but I would like to know if there's any advice from a professional standpoint for this. Yeah, I have advice and I think my advice is actually different when it comes to managing this stuff as opposed to managing like the businessy type stuff. When we're talking about the physical objects and how your employees like put things away and how they clean and what it looks like. It's the same as in the home. We always default to the butterfly. So visual and the least simple approach. Lots of labels, no lids, don't stack things. Absolutely. Have checklists and have those checklists like laminated and somewhere more visual. So it's really obvious where things should go. And zoning is also important. So all the cleaning supplies in one spot, all the different types of stock that you have, like zone it out so no one has to guess where things are or where they go. If they're not sure, they can think like well what's in the neighborhood of this? Like yes, I have this thing I have to put away. I'm not sure where it should go. But what would be a neighbor of this that just makes everything so much easier. But I will say when it comes to file management and doing important things like saving things on a computer where everyone can find it, it's actually better to have your husband who's a B or someone else who's more detailed create that system because as a ladybug business owner when it comes to files, I throw everything in a bucket called random Random that is not effective for other people's brains when they're trying to find a file. So that's different. We're going to go a little bit more detailed when it comes to important things and that includes important documents. So if you are filing papers for all of the clients, have the detailed person set it up just then have them come up with like an easy guide for the non detailed people to be able to find what they need. All right, now let's hear from Anonymous.
- [51:16]
B
Hey Cas, I real quick just want to ask about your word of the year because I know you've mentioned that you've changed from New Year's resolutions to word of the year to a word of the year. Mines I picked was sustainable and it's
- [51:33]
A
kind of been going like eh.
- [51:34]
B
But as I remember it sometimes I will at least sigh towards know trying
- [51:42]
A
to at least follow my word of the year but it's a little bit
- [51:45]
B
difficult remembering because a lot, a lot of you know, a lot of the
- [51:49]
A
reasons are kind of stuff that you've mentioned in your up so that got cut off. But I love this because I am a huge fan of a word of the year. I do not remember what my word of the year was this year. So that is a very good point. In previous years I've put it on my. I'm. I'm gesturing right now which if you're listening you can't see. I'm gesturing to my vision board. I've put my word of the year on the vision board so that I have that constant reminder and I also put it on my phone screen but I didn't even do it this year. So I also forget my word of the year. So you're light years ahead because you have yours as sustainable. What I would suggest is doing the thing I didn't that I should have done which is adding it to the vision board board right now I'm going to try to go back and remember what it was and adding it as the screen of your phone or writing it with a dry erase marker on your mirror every day so you see it. It's okay to need that visual cue. Even though I'm a hidden organizer, I forget as well. So let's find ways to remind ourselves of what's important. And I think that's why I love my vision board so much is it cons I'm looking over at it, it's like oh yeah that's that that is my goal this year. Maybe it was contentment. Last but not least, let's hear from two sisters, Kathy and Mary.
- [53:11]
C
Hi, Cass. You're getting a two for one from Virginia today. I'm Mary. And I'm her sister, Kathy. Her younger sister. Her much younger sister. Let's just get that out of the way. They need to know these things.
- [53:25]
A
Feel better?
- [53:26]
C
I do feel better. We did our share of decluttering after our parents died, but you really got us back into the swing of downsizing. Cass, you are an amazing motivator. And, oh, my God, you are hilarious. We are so glad we found you. We get educated and inspired at the same time. And, Mary, you and I are both giant crickets, right?
- [53:47]
A
Yeah.
- [53:47]
C
That makes us kind of like, sound like a couple of Godzillas. Yeah, well, we're the clutter Crushers. Sounds a lot better than AI suggestion, which was the purge partner. I don't want a partner when I purge. Yeah, that was just wrong. But whatever we are, we are both big, big fans of yours, Cass. We're very thankful for you and your message. Our houses are thankful. Our closets, our blood pressures. People we don't even know yet are thankful. Anyway, Cass, we love to compare notes on your podcast, and we're always sharing your tips and tricks. We have let you down, though, with the whole stop folding your laundry thing. Yeah, but you did say you threw your socks in the drawer willy nilly. Well, I didn't enjoy that. Which doesn't surprise me, because you have a shocking secret. You want to share your shocking secret? Okay, Cass. I fold my plastic grocery bags. She folds her plastic grocery. Grocery bags, people. I flatten them and fold them into tiny, neat little squares and store them in an attractive basket in my pantry. Yes, she does. She does. And we all love her anyway. Well, maybe we can move on from that. Decluttering reached a new level for us when we made a competition out of it. Yeah, Mary. This was Mary's idea. She'll text me. Three purses, five dog bowls, two bottles of hand sanitizer, a set of deer antler mailers. Your turn. And that's a lot of pressure. Right? But motivation, too. So game on. I try my best to one up her. You try? I do try. Unfortunately, I text back boring stuff like six picture frames and four board games. That doesn't matter. It's fun and it works well. And it is satisfying. Especially when I convince you to take my clutter. That is so not fair. But that was a nice purse. I just wanted to share the love, Kathy. Yes, maybe next time, love somebody else heard. So, the other thing we wanted to Mention was the oddest thing we ever found. Decluttering. Yeah. Yeah. When we were cleaning out our parents closet after our dad died, we found in a brand spanking new box stored way up high on the tippy top shelf golf. A beaver blanket. A beaver blanket. And we're not talking a blanket with cartoon beavers on it. No. Oh, no. A genuine beaver pelt blanket with a satin lining.
- [56:34]
B
Never been used.
- [56:35]
C
Yeah. We were like, what the. What? I mean, we knew our dad was the culprit, but why did he buy fur? Why did he buy. Why did he buy beaver fur? And why did he spend money? They sure as heck didn't have have just to hide the thing in the closet. Probably because mom threatened to divorce him when she found out and he figured,
- [56:55]
B
I better get rid of it.
- [56:56]
C
Yeah. Only he didn't. And now we get to. We have to share the love. Yeah, I don't think anybody wants that love.
- [57:05]
A
We'll figure it out.
- [57:07]
C
Okay, let's give Cass her day back. Cass, thanks for everything. We so appreciate you. We appreciate you. Thank you, Cassie Cast. We will look forward to your next podcast. And hey, please let us know if you ever think you might like a beaver blanket. Peace out. Bye.
- [57:32]
A
Oh, my gosh. Can I just say, one, you guys sound so awesome and I don't know, I want to follow you wherever you are so I could have more of you. And two, I feel so, so sad that I don't have this relationship with my sister. I want to call my sister. Or maybe you guys are adopting and need a third sister because how amazing. I love that. You guys are just like such a team. And I think all of us need some sort of relationship just like that. So if you just also were listening and thinking, I wish I had that. Do you have a friend you can call or your actual sister? And maybe you can do the same body doubling, hold each other accountable thing that Kathy and Mary are doing. They're clutter crushers. And we can be clutter crushers too. No thank you on the beaver blanket, though. I'm. I'm all. I'm all full on beaver blankets. Thank you so much for hanging out with me. I hope you got something finished. Those unfinished projects, honestly, they're the bane of my existence. And they will stop you in your tracks. They will make you procrastinate. Not just that task, but so many other things. So what if today we just get it done? Even putting it in a trash bag. I hope you're feeling really proud. Let me know in the comments what you got done today because not only do I love reading them, but they inspire every other person who is watching or listening to this, too. So do me a favor. Put in the comments what you got done, and I'll see you next time.