A (2:33)

That's so crazy, because I think, like, 2% of dancers in the world become a professional dancer. And you were just like, I'm gonna do that.

B (2:42)

I. It's, you know, at a very young age, it's what I wanted to do. And I remember telling, like, I had to write a report or something in English and seventh or eighth grade, and you had to write, like, what you wanted to be when you grew up. I don't know why we were asking seventh and eighth graders what they wanted to be, because we all know that we're, like, mid-40s and we're still figuring it out. But I said I wanted to be a professional dancer, and my English teacher told me I couldn't do my thesis on that or whatever it was, because it's not, like, a legitimate career. I think that as a young girl, I was like, oh, yeah, watch, watch. I will make it. So my husband's also, like, the 2% of the professional dancers as well. So it's a really weird world to be in because when you step into the world of Those, like, that 2% that really, really, like, have toured with incredible artists, it's. It's really unique because it's like, everyone at the top of their game.

A (3:40)

Yeah. And so you went from that to somehow being an HGTV star in the home. That's a leap. I feel like that's. That's a leap. How did that come about? Because it wasn't just Mariah Carey, I must say. It was like, Justin Timberlake. Did you say 50 Cent?

B (3:57)

I thought, yes, yes. I did. James Brown. I think that was one of my coolest ones as well. So, yeah, very random. You know, I. As a professional dancer, I ended up. I was, like, doing commercials and things. I always kept a second job. It was always, always a part of me, because I started in New York and I started in the restaurant business. And it was just something with me where I always had a second job. And then I was running. I was running my friend's restaurant in Santa Monica, and I was like, you know, there's one day I'm not gonna. I love the restaurant business. I think it teaches us so much. But one day I'm not going to want to do this. Like, I just know I'm not going to want to be on my feet like this. Little did I know that organization, because that's how I started. You, like, wreck your body. But I just knew I didn't want to be on my feet and I knew I wasn't going to be a dancer, you know, into my 40s. So I thought back and forth, said, what else am I really good at? And it was home. And that's mentally where I started to transition.

A (4:58)

So you were always a really naturally organized person.

B (5:02)

Yes, you know, I, I. No, I don't know. I don't know that I can think back. I was always a rip everything out of the closet in an emotional moment and then fold it and put it back up. Nice. I liked, I liked the, the, the and the put back of it all.

A (5:20)

You like the beauty component. It's cathartic when you organize this space.

B (5:26)

I liked checking off a to do list, you know, that like before and after moment where you get to check. I also grew up with a friend who had a. Whose family struggled a lot. She had a brother with spina bifida. She had a sister who had a child very, very young. And they had like six kids in the house. And the dad was a fisherman and the mom was kind of on her own. And her house specifically had a lot going on. And I would find myself cleaning the house and organizing the house at a very young age to help out because I was like, you can't live like this. So there were a lot of things that kind of, I don't know, played into one another that I don't think I realized once I got older.

A (6:08)

And then you were just like, I'm going to. This seems cool. I like organizing. I'm going to be a professional organizer today.

B (6:15)

You know, kind of. It was during Craigslist and I was just trying to figure out what I was going to do. And I saw an ad on Craigslist and a girl was giving up her organization business because she was moving from Los Angeles up to like Washington state. And she was looking for somebody to come in and take over her clients. And now, mind you, I had only ever organized for myself. And like that friend I was telling.

A (6:39)

You about, that's like some serendipitous.

B (6:42)

Yeah. And it was also a lot of like hoops bath for a young girl to be like, I can do that, I'll do that. I've never done it before, but let's go. So that's. And I caught her up or email, I don't even know called emailed at that time, I think. Sure, it was an email. And I met with her one day during her work and went with her to one of her clients and it was Carrie And Moss from the Matrix. It was very weird. And I was like, in her house? Yeah. And the woman who was giving up the business happened to be really sick, so she couldn't do anything, but she was there with me. So she was, like, laying on the floor like, do this, do this, do this. And so I did it all kind of on my own. And that's. And that was it. That was all she wrote. I got her business, and I was like, this is what I do now.

A (7:25)

That's so amazing. I love it. I mean, I feel like I. I was a slob. I was just a wreck. And I slowly got organized, and then I was like, I could do this for other people. And I remember printing off like, this is back. I'm. I'm old. I printed off, like, a flyer, you know those tearaways on the bottom.

B (7:43)

Yes, yes, yes.

A (7:43)

And it was like, got clutter, need to get organized. And it was rip off the bottom. And I was like, I'm just. Today I'm gonna start a business and just jump in to put in your heart.

B (7:55)

You knew somewhere, obviously in your heart of hearts, you knew somewhere that, like, in the back of your brain that this is something that you would be good at and that you would thrive at and that you wouldn't mind doing. I think in life, like, there was. There was a part of the joy that comes from it, I believe.

A (8:13)

I loved it. And I also had this weird I can do anything attitude. I'll jump in and figure it out. How hard can it be? Some things were actually hard. So you were. You were doing all of this organizing, and then you really transitioned into interior design, which I do feel it goes hand in hand. I never made that transition because it terrifies me. I feel like I'm not good at it.

B (8:38)

Well, I can tell right now, looking at your background, that you are good at it. It's just fy.

A (8:44)

So it's intimidating. How did you make that transition? Was it also just like your. I can do anything? How hard could this be? Did you, like, Google how to be an indifferent?

B (8:55)

No, I think I was too old to even Google it. Yeah, I don't think we, like, Googled. We. We didn't have, like, if I had chat GPT and like, the Google that we have now, I could have figured it out. But, no, we didn't really have. I was. I was organizing. My husband and I had bought a foreclosed home in California. And word kind of started to get out that I was an organization organizer and that we were kind of Redoing this house from the bottom up. So I got brought in at first to be people's project manager, because my coin phrase was get it done, girl. That's where my business comes from. And people were calling me, like, I hear you're. You have really good taste, and you can organize and you get things done. And I was like, I do. I love to get things done. My husband will tell you it drives him crazy, but I'm like, I want to. I have to get this now, like, right this second. So that really kind of started it. I went in as project managers on Bathroom Renov, and then I would be like, I don't think you should do this. I think you should do this. And then I was organizing a client, and as I was organizing, I would start shifting and moving. So then they started asking me more questions, and it was like, flower arrangements, then it was a pillow, then it was a throw. And then before you know it, one of my clients had adopted a baby. And it was a very quick adoption. And she was literally, like, leaving that day to go get the baby. Like, walked into her house, and she was a client that I had. I was often in her house organizing her and things. And she's like, I got the baby. I'm going to get her now. Can you turn that back room, which was like a guest bedroom, very, like, cool. Into, like, a nursery? There's a crib. And I was like, okay. And I just. That's what I did. So I think it was just being okay to be down, to fail a little bit, but knowing that you're going to try and check everything where you're not going to fail, but you're okay if you do. Because if not, the other option is you never started. So it was. It was that moment, which is seems similar to yours as well, where you were just putting tabs out there, like, someone's gonna call. Like, someone will call me.

A (10:52)

It'll. It'll. I could figure this out. How hard can it be? Say yes.

B (10:58)

Say, oh, okay. So when I was really young, my mom told me, no matter what you do in life, say yes. And it was one of those things where I was like, well, I'm not sure I want. She's like, it doesn't matter if you want this. This will lead you to that. And she always said, you say yes, unless, of course, like, your gut is like, no, this is. This is icky or dangerous. But you say yes because everything will lead you down somewhere else. So it's the same thing. It was, say Yes.

A (11:25)

I feel like my say yes came from. I had so many failures as a kid that I became. It's like exposure therapy to sucking. And so as an adult, or even a young adult, I'm like, well, I. I'm so crap, I might as well try. Who cares if I fail? I suck. And I meet these.

B (11:43)

Did you really crap and suck, though?

A (11:45)

I'm sorry.

B (11:45)

Oh, no.

A (11:46)

I crapped all over life. I was the. I was bad at everything. I sucked all around. Listen, I have a felony criminal record. I'm a high school dropout. I'm just like a nightmare. Okay, But. But it also led me to a place where I wasn't afraid to fail. Because I talked to people today who are so talented and so just great at things. And I'm like, you should be doing this. Amazing. And they're like, oh, no, I can't. And I feel like maybe you didn't suck enough, you know? But did you have like the suckage? Where does your courage come from? Because that's really what it is. It's the courage to be okay with failing.

B (12:24)

I was always second. Like, if I'm going to be really honest, when I was a little girl, I was. I had a lot of, like, childhood life, house turmoil. And I was this little wee girl. And I had big, big teeth. And my mom would cut my hair really, really short and she would permit with the smallest perm rod that they could find. So I kind of looked like Annie, but with like mousy brown hair and really big teeth. And I was like, heh. And all of my friends were like, really talented and beautiful and they had like long gorgeous hair and like, long legs. And I was this like, little next to them, feeling a little bit like. Like a rat. And I got made fun of quite a bit. And I just took it and I was like, well, okay, cool. And then I had family things going on and I was like, well, this sucks, but it's fine. Cool. And I took it and balled it up and found in my little like, you know, 8, 10 year old self a way to just be like, well, I'll just be creative and I'll be funny and I'll just keep going. Because if you. You're creative and you're funny and you keep going and you work hard and you say yes, then eventually something will happen, right? Like it was the dis. I don't know, that disbelief of magic of life where you're just like, if you keep going, something will happen. And I feel that today. I don't think I have as much hoops ba. I want to say other words that hang between your legs. But I will say. I will say that as I've gotten older, I have to remind myself of that young girl and be like, girl, do you remember when you just keep, like, do that? So I don't know what the original question was, but that is, yes, it came from a lot of that.

A (14:08)

I'm focusing on your hoops. Hoops, I would call it, because I literally, I was. I was talking about this one's interview, and I'm like, she must have. The giant is gonads. Like, she must just have to pull up a chair for her gonads to sit on when she's having dinner because they're so dry. Because it is. It's bravery. And I do feel like, I love that, like, listening to your story, I wonder if you had the ability to laugh at yourself, you know, when everyone's laughing at you. So you. You're like, oh. And when you give yourself permission to kind of laugh at yourself and the failure, it does. It does make it all a little bit less scary because you're just like, no, it happens.

B (14:48)

And it's, you know, Absolutely. I think laughing at yourself, you get to take control. And I think often a lot of us, and I won't speak for you, but a lot of us in life, there. There's probably a lack of control somewhere along your childhood, somewhere along that, like, beginning life where you see that you're not going to be able to control these things. I wasn't going to be able to control my home. I wasn't going to be able to control what was going on in my childhood. I wasn't going to be able to control people making fun of me or at that point, what my hair. In seventh grade, I told my mom, you got to stop. You got to stop with this perm thing. This is too much. So eventually I got control over my hair, but even my hair. It was such a weird thing. But I couldn't control older people kind of being cruel during those times. But I could absolutely, what you just said, control how I felt about myself. And if that in those moments, like, I was definitely, like, voted class clown and like, you know, like the sixth grade and funny this and funny that, because it was my. My mechanism. I even did stand up when I lived in LA for, like, two years because I was like, this is funny. So, yeah, I think that it's. It's finding the control. And however you find that control is how you kind of turn it into your superpower. That's how I believe.

A (16:01)

I love that you're just adding comic comedian to your huge resume of incredible talent.

B (16:09)

That is gonads. I'll give you that. I'll get. I'll give myself that. I don't know. I still want to go back, but I'm like, I don't know if I could do it anymore.

A (16:17)

But I want to talk about your transition to HGTV, because I, I was doing like YouTube and helping clients, and I got a call one day from a producer, an email, and she's like, hey, you want to make a pilot for tv? And of course you say yes, because it's terrifying, but you say yes to everything.

B (16:36)

I.

A (16:37)

It was nothing like I expected. What was your experience like? For me, it was so much work.

B (16:44)

It's so much work. And I think, you know, before I did hgtv, I was doing a show called Hotel Impossible with Travel Channel. And I quit that show on my first night, second night of that show, I called my agent and said, not doing this, not doing this. Even though that was my dream. Like for me, when I was in LA and when I redid my client's bedroom into the nursery, she actually brought me to producers and was like, this is Carrie and you should do a show with her. So it was always kind of my dream and I couldn't get my foot in the door. And then I left LA and moved to New Jersey into the suburbs, and I got my foot in the door. And people are like, did you? How did you. And I was like, I don't know. Like, I don't know. Like, don't give up. Keep going. You know, just pulling some, some kind of BS out of my head. But it was a big deal and I got there and the amount of work that had to be done and then you would have to flip around and be on camera and then you'd have to flip back around and it's your integrity. So if it's because not all television shows have people that are actually doing their field, like, that's a little ding, ding, ding for you guys out there. A lot of times there are people that are stand ins to the actual designers behind the scenes now. They could have design experience. But like on, on Hotel Impossible, I was designing, I was building out, I was in the field every day. And then I would have to flip and be on camera and like, I'm getting changed in like these like places that have like bedbugs and my pits are sweaty and I'm Sweating. And they're like, we need you on camera, but we need you to look like a fancy design. Well, guess I was not a fancy designer. I was not. I was a self taught girl from like a beach town who figured it out along the way. And they're like, you don't look like a designer enough. And I was like, I don't even know what that means. Like there was like a whole thing, but it is so difficult and it is glamorized a lot. And then I think we take it and we internalize it almost like a, like a magazine from the 90s of what our bodies are supposed to look like. And it really got taken and like this is what our home is supposed to look like. So it's always tried to push wherever I could back on that, but it is nothing out there. Hello, everyone. Like, what was, I mean, what was your experience going into it? Because like, like I said earlier, if it's your field and it's something you care about and you're passionate about and you've been building yourself on this, you kind of give them a little bit of control because they are producers and they want something.

A (19:14)

I mean, my experience with the producers was amazing. In this show we, we filmed like right after Covid, so we had a very small crew. I guess I thought it was going to be a little bit more glamorous because it looks so glamorous. And I'd have like hair and makeup and it would be. No, I was lugging boxes, I was decluttering, I'm in the trenches. And then they're like, there's a camera on me. They're like, you, you're sweaty. I'm like, yeah, no, no. But we shut the air off because it makes too much noise. And I'm plugging 50 pounds of stuff. Like, I did it all, I did the work, I organized it, I decluttered it.

B (19:47)

Yes.

A (19:49)

And. And with a very small crew while also being on camera. So it just was. And the timeline is insane too. It's like, yes, we're, we're filming the afters tomorrow and like nothing's done. So you just are. And every day I would be like, how are we ever gonna get this done? This is so crazy. But we also don't want to. I didn't want to fake it because of the integrity aspect.

B (20:11)

Right, agreed, agreed.

A (20:12)

I wanted it to be real.

B (20:14)

And then, you know, speaking to like the producers, they have the hard job of taking something that, you know, can kind of be mundane. Like if we're being really honest about, like, we're organizing people's closets or we're, you know, painting a wall or, like, putting up wallpaper. And, like, they have to make it something interesting to watch. So everybody. It's kind of like working in a bar because. Or a restaurant because everybody has this position where they have to make it look good and they have to make it make sense. And then you have to just keep going while everybody else is going, because if you stop, it's like you said, tomorrow the afters are not going to be there. So it's. It's a never. It's. It's intense. I don't. I think it's so, like, on tv, you see, it's like, here it is, and da, da, da. And they did this and da, da, da. And what will they do? I don't know. Well, here, let's find out. Like, so that way. And meanwhile, you're just. Everyone's on the side, like, panting. No, it is.

A (21:12)

It is. We're, like, touching up paint on our hands and knees right before.

B (21:16)

You know what I mean?

A (21:17)

Everyone's exhausted. I'm sweaty. I literally had, like, sweat towels to dab me and be. Oh, are you ready to see the ass Red?

B (21:26)

Just a photo.

A (21:28)

Just like. It was wonderful, though. Oh, yeah.

B (21:32)

Yes.

A (21:33)

I mean, when you're in it, it's crazy, but then the satisfaction that comes after and just absolute. Yeah. And it's another thing for your incredible resume, isn't it? It's just like, it's.

B (21:46)

You know, it's incredible because, like, when I did hgtv, we did. I did Extreme Makeover, and Extreme Makeover was the show that, as far as, like, I don't know if we're, like, similar ages, but Extreme Makeover was the show that, if you had any inkling of home or any love of that, that. That pulled you in. Yeah.

A (22:06)

Ty Pennington.

B (22:08)

And so I did Hotel Impossible, and then I had a little bit of a lull, and I started, you know, working on hotels and everything. And then I had been up for a couple shows, and then Extreme came up. And I remember looking at my husband, and I was like, this is the one. Like, this is the one. And then it was crazy. Like, when I got onto Extreme Makeover, like, to me, that was. That was it. Like, you. You couldn't get onto a bigger show. And then Ty was there, and he was, like, on the set, and I was like, what is. What is this world I'm living in? And that show. Talk about high stakes of building a Full house. Like, ripping a house down and rebuilding it. A lot larger of a team, though, because I feel your show and, like, the show I did on Hotel Impossible was, like, it was small and it was knit, and you had to still do the same thing that the big show, like, the. Like, the huge crew was doing, and we were doing it with, like, a small group of people. But also the integrity of making sure you were actually doing it and giving them what it is. Always. That was always a thread that ran through, luckily, all the shows that I did, because I know there are shows out there that just do it to do it. And there's been, like, you know, some hate and pushback on those shows because of that. So I was always grateful that I fell in places, like you said, where you could still really produce what it is that you wanted to on a human level and do your job.

A (23:32)

You seem like such a goal chaser, and I feel like I was really into, like, once you do. I was, what's next? And I would, like, stack it. But I've hit this age now where I'm like, maybe I don't want to do that anymore.

B (23:46)

Maybe I want to sit on the back deck.

A (23:49)

Maybe I don't want to chase goals. But also, when you've been doing that for so long, it can feel like I also don't want to, like, be put to pasture. Does this make sense?

B (24:00)

This makes total sense. I think there's a struggle, especially as you get older as a man and a woman. But I'm a woman, so I speak from that point of view. And, like, that you don't want to become, like, not relevant within this place where you were. It's not that it's like, oh, I was so relevant one day. It's just you have. You have skill and you have ability, and you like doing it, and purpose. And purpose. And you, like, like, somebody will always be like, what's your favorite part of those shows? You know, my favorite part is when we would move the bus on Extreme Makeover. Just as we would move the bus, we could see the family, see the home before the cameras saw it, before the people on the other side saw it. So as the bus was moving, we're like this. And you see them go. It was those 0.3 seconds of that initial guttural reaction that is my favorite part. It's when you go, are you ready? And you do this, and you go. They go. Because they see how much their life is changing. That's, like, a little addictive because. And in real Life. And like when I do that in hotels for my clients and I open up the door and they're like, you know, this is a family run hotel and they can see their future. You see them seeing their future. So there's that part that I think that it's the purpose that we get from helping people. Because I think especially organization. I mean, you help people, that's what you do on a regular basis.

A (25:30)

It is very addicting because I know the transformation that getting decluttering and organizing had in my life, it changed everything. It changed my finances, my relationships. Like your home is the foundation for your life. And when my home was chaotic, my life was chaotic. And when I got my home under control, everything else, it was like this domino effect. Everything in my life improved. So I know that in organizing and decluttering and helping others, they're going to have that same sort of. Yeah. That same life changing. I want to share something with you because I want to diagnose your organizing style, but I want to share where it came from because.

B (26:09)

Can I ask you a question too?

A (26:11)

Yes.

B (26:11)

I don't want to cut you off. So you tell me what you. First, I want to know because you keep saying you weren't or you not keep saying, but you said you weren't organized and that you were a mess and then you got yourself or what? How, why? What like what, what did you. Because that's. That. I think that's more of a, of a life, like a life flex than going from like dancer to organizer. Because you're like, how. That's a big step in a home to actually become organized. That's discipline.

A (26:43)

You know what? Part of it was discipline, but part of it was also like I was trying to copy what I thought organization was. So I was lining everything up and putting everything into clear containers. And my husband's like, look, I made you this insane filing cabinet. When you pay a bill, take 10 minutes to find which tiny folder this one goes in. And I failed at that. I'm like, I would just shove it in a drawer, you know. But that type of like, oh, that's a lot. I'm just going you to show shove it over here meant my house was perpetually messy. What happened was I, I was like, I'm going to try to be organized by not being organized. And I'm just going to toss stuff in like this bin labeled papers, paid bills. And so I took the pressure off myself to copy and I went for this laid back. I can toss it like a basketball, but everything has A home. And that meant I was able to keep my house tidy. And then I thought I was a genius. And I thought there was, like, two organizing styles. You know what I mean? So what happened was, because I, like you, was like, ah, I'm gonna do this for a living. I'm. I'm gonna figure it out. When I was putting up these flyers, I started doing this marketing campaign. If it doesn't stay organized for 30 days, I'll come back and organize it for free. So imagine all your. Because, you know, when you have organizing clients.

B (28:01)

Yes.

A (28:01)

I would follow up with them and say, is it still just as tidy as the day I left? And if they said no, I would go back and organize it for free. This was a terrible idea.

B (28:13)

Yeah.

A (28:13)

This was not.

B (28:14)

That's the sleep on the mattress for 90 days, and if you don't like it, you can return.

A (28:18)

Pretty. But they were called. They were like, I don't. This mattress is lumpy. And I'd be like, oh, my. So I had another job. I was running a daycare. I was a new mom. And then evenings and weekends, I'm going to all these clients homes for free.

B (28:32)

Insane.

A (28:33)

Oftentimes having to hire a babysitter. My husband's like, we are going broke. You are. This is costing us money. You have to quit. But I just. I was like, first of all, don't tell me what to do. And second of all, why can't. Why is it? Why? And so I discovered. Just really digging into each client, like, okay, what is it that isn't working here? I discovered that there are actually four organizing styles, natural organizing styles.

B (29:02)

And.

A (29:03)

And when I started adapting people's homes to how they naturally put things down, they wouldn't call me back, and I didn't have to go back and organize it.

B (29:12)

That's a win. Win across all boards.

A (29:14)

Yes. So I sort of stumbled upon this because I had, you know, bigger gonads back then with this ridiculous marketing strategy and this absolute. I was like, I will not fail. I will figure this out.

B (29:26)

Yes, absolutely.

A (29:28)

And I did. So I would. Basically, it comes down to how you naturally sort and how you naturally store. Some are very visual. It's out of sight, out of mind. They want to see their things. They're energized by their things. I call those visual organizers. And the other side is they want their hidden organizers. So they get really stressed out seeing a lot of things. They would prefer their everyday items to be out of sight. So you have visual people or hidden. Do you think you're Visual or hidden.

B (29:59)

Ooh. Well, I agree that there is. I don't like, a one fits all organization. I've always had issue with that. I personally feel that organization is a life skill. It is not something to be pretty. I think we get confused with labeling and pretty hangers. That is design.

A (30:20)

I'll fight you for labeling, but. Okay, sure, yes, okay, I'll give you.

B (30:24)

Labeling, but, like, the pretty box and the. Like, the heck, totally. Like, everything has to be. That's. That's. That's design. That. That looks pretty and that might work for some people, but that doesn't teach you the life skill of organization. I would have to. I don't like to see my stuff, so I believe I'm hidden, but I'm not.

A (30:42)

Like, yeah, but I already know you're hidden. I know you're here because some, like, legit. Some people, like, want to see their toothbrush. Seriously?

B (30:50)

Oh, yeah. No, I don't want to see my toothbrush.

A (30:52)

Right.

B (30:53)

I would get mad if I saw it.

A (30:55)

I already know this. But honestly, some people, like, really love to see the things because it's that visual cue to remember, and they feel a lot of comfort in seeing their everyday items, whether it's their toaster, whether it's the front of the fridge, is usually, like, filled with reminders and memos because it really is out of sight, out of mind. And there's a fine line between clutter and, you know, if everything's visual, nothing's visual, but there are people who tend to lean towards that. So subconsciously, if the home for everything is behind closed doors, they'll leave it out, or they'll leave the closet door open or they'll. So we have to create homes that are more visual so that they're not going to just leave it out. Right. Does this make sense?

B (31:39)

This makes sense. So here's my question, because if you're going off of that, which I feel deeply, I am a hider. My husband is a. My husband likes it out.

A (31:49)

Yeah.

B (31:49)

Because if you go through our house right now, he has adapted to me being like, this has to go behind this, and this goes here. And he enjoys it. It's not that he doesn't enjoy and he's adapted to it, but if you go into his garage, he will say to me, this is my. My garage, and everything is organized. I will say, like, everything is organized. It's not clutter. It's things that he uses. But I'm like, if you put it behind a door, it would look so much better. Like, I'll get cabinets and I'll be like, all of this is going to go in the cabinet and then all of it goes in the cabinet. And then like three weeks later stuff comes out of the cabinet and it's in a space. It is organized. Everything goes back to that space, but now it's out of the cabinet and it drives me bonkers. How do you, how do we do that? How do we manage that?

A (32:33)

But the thing is. So I call this the golden clutterbug rule because when it comes to like visual or hidden as visual we get really I as hidden. I mean we get stressed out by seeing stuff. We. Yeah, so we're hiding everything. But a visual organizer will get just as stressed out if they can't see the things that are important or they're using. And so there is this battle and you're not going to like the answer. But the truth is in these shared spaces with important everyday things, the visual wins. Which means like. Yeah, not. I know which. You're also not a big fan of labels, but this is a beautiful thing. If there was no doors on the cabinet and there was a beautiful basket, but it had a, A, a big beautiful label, that's that visual cue for him. Oh, that's my thing. So he's not subconsciously going to leave things out so he doesn't forget because the label will be his visual reminder.

B (33:28)

You're right. I should get my labels out. But size matters.

A (33:32)

You know what I mean? Size matters, girl. It's got to be seen big. It has to be seen from across the room. That's it. So find a font you love. I know as a hidden organizer you're not going to like that. Okay, so that's one half of your organizing style. I already know your organizing style by listening to a few interviews. Did I diagnosed you. But I want you to diagnose yourself now.

B (33:51)

Okay. I love it.

A (33:51)

So the, the other half is how you sort. So there's really detailed people who naturally think in categories, who naturally have really detailed plans. They tend to be very logical, tend to be perfectionist, very sort of like a type when it comes to managing their stuff. I call that a detailed organizer or a micro organizer. And then there's people who are more naturally, a little bit laid back. They think more big picture, big categories, a macro thinker where it's like this is the home, but it's not lots of categories within that. It's more big picture. So are you more of a detailed or a non detailed organization?

B (34:32)

I would say I'M a non detailed. Yeah.

A (34:34)

So I call that a ladybug. I already knew that. You're like, yeah. I was like ladybuggy.

B (34:40)

I was like, I feel like that's a lot of work. Work the other one. Like I try and like I try and stay organized and keep everything the way it is, but like. Because that's how our house runs better. That's how. And I also believe in respecting our spaces. Like so for me, if I can respect the space but also not be so, like, definitely macro. Definitely macro.

A (35:03)

Yes. I love that. So you're a ladybug. And I'm going to guess, honestly, your husband is a bee. I have a feeling he might be a little bit more. And it's a. Listen, it's not Hogwarts. We can't put. Put everyone into four categories. It's a spectrum. And you may be a little bit in one space in a different organizing style in another space. It's. What's helpful is to like identify the natural tendency so that you can set up a home that complements that, especially in those shared spaces. So I have a feeling he might be a little bit more of the detailed. And you'll see if in his like workshop or his personal space does he have like a pegboard or everything's lined up or he's really like.

B (35:39)

And he's got like his screws all in. Little things.

A (35:42)

Yeah.

B (35:43)

And everything is out. And I'm like, if there was a big cabinet, if there could just put.

A (35:48)

A door on it. Yeah.

B (35:50)

You could put a curtain across this. Some nice material.

A (35:54)

It's so fascinating. So you guys actually organize completely differently. You're a ladybug and he's a bee. So there's lots of beautiful compromises. And I mean you are an organized person and definitely practice pra. Organization is practice.

B (36:05)

So I say that all the time.

A (36:07)

Yeah. Yeah. The more you've practiced, you can definitely like adapt and work. But I do feel like your natural organizing styles are very, very different. And in a space that constantly stays messy, that's where your style matters. You probably don't have a space like that, but with my client.

B (36:23)

Yeah.

A (36:24)

In those spaces that they're like, I tidy this every day and tomorrow it's a mess again. Just making those tweaks to your natural style help keep it tidy because it's. It's less effort.

B (36:35)

Yeah.

A (36:36)

It's a natural how you naturally put things down.

B (36:39)

It's. I couldn't agree more. It's like a muscle. That's what I always say when People are walking to my house, and they're like, oh, my gosh, it's so organized. And I'm like, well, I can come organize you, but if you don't understand that it's like a life practice, and you have to make a conscious decision to just, like, you have to make a conscious decision to get your steps in and to work out and to drink your water. Like, you have to make that conscious decision to whether you tidy up at the end of the day or tidy up in the morning or as you're going in life, or you just are really good and you put it back after you're done using it in its home. But if not, like, I think people get really. They get really, like, confused because a little bit of the way that we've pushed it out on, you know, home shows and in magazines and in. There's a lot of home shows about organization where they're just like. And poof. And there we go. And we organized it. And I'm like, but they have a housekeeper that comes back and they're using the system. They're not using the system. Somebody who's getting paid to come into their home two, three times a week is doing the system that you put in. But that doesn't mean that, like, you're saying that's the system that works for them. So in everyday world, for people, I always tell the people that you have to really understand and respect not just your home, but the flow of your home and how everybody moves in and out of your home. Home. So, like, my son, even, like, my son is an organized kid. He's a mess, but then he's organized. He puts everything back, and I guess he's a visual. He likes it out, but organized, but out.

A (38:13)

So he's a B2.

B (38:15)

He's a B2. Yeah. So I'm just. I'm just a ladybug over here in a sea of bees. Yeah.

A (38:20)

But I feel like ladybug. Ladybug's the best. Okay. No, that's terrible. There's no better style. But, yeah, it's. It's. It's fast and easy to put things away. Right. When you're a ladybug because you're like, oh, I'm just gonna. It has a home and it doesn't. I don't have to be precious about it. It's like, if I need an aspirin, I'll dig through the medicine bin and I'll find the aspirin. It doesn't have to be in the pain reliever. Container, because that's cuckoo banana pans. But a lot of people want that, and that's cool, too. So. Yeah, it's like knowing what works for you and adapting your home to the flow. I love that because it doesn't really matter what it looks like. It matters if it's practical and functional. And I feel like the by of a functional, practical home is a beautiful home.

B (39:03)

Yes.

A (39:05)

Because it's tidy and it works for you, and it's organized. And then it also frees up your time and energy to, like, make your home beautiful. I would love to talk about design for, like, a hot second with you because what I found is how much my environment signaled back to me. I think that's why I had that. That, like, it was getting organized, was that domino effect for the rest of my life. Because when my house was tidy and I found it beautiful, I felt more confident, I felt more capable. And I've also seen even, like, with the interior design. Not that I'm an interior designer, but that signals to me, too. I want to talk about that because I. I love my bedroom curtains. And they're wild and they're bright and they're colorful. And it was really signaling to me every morning, like, get up. Go be energized. But now I'm in a different place right now, where I'm like, bitch, you need to sleep. You need to chill out. Like, take a stop.

B (40:08)

I would change curtains.

A (40:09)

Time to change my freaking curtains.

B (40:10)

Time to change your curtains. Yes, and.

A (40:13)

What? Absolutely yes. And I know this seems silly, and if people are listening, they're going to watch me change my curtains, and they're going to be like, you're changing your curtains. But I do think that your environment does signal, and it's okay to change it up for the season of life. What you need that Signal to be.

B (40:30)

100% as you would get a good pair of jeans that look good on the tush and a nice pair of heels or loafers, or if you're a sneaker head, like, whatever it is that makes you feel good when you are leaving your house. You got that nice blazer. Maybe it's a trench coat, maybe it's a hoodie. Whatever makes you feel good. The way you tie your hair up, the hat that you put on, the lipstick, the makeup. We do all of that to leave the house. We do all of that to feel good inside. We do all of that to feel confident because we like it. And that's like, our thing, and we've known it, and we change it Up a little bit. We change the colors, we change the season. The home is the same way. If we're going out into the world with all this confidence, when you're coming back to reset and to rest, everything around you should reflect you. So as you're walking in, it should give you that confidence. You should feel that pushback of confidence. You should feel that moment of. Of. Look what we just did today. And I'm gonna sit down in this corner in this destination. I always say in our homes, we should have destinations where you look across the room and you go, oh, I wanna go over there. And it's because it's what speaks to us in our own personal sense and our confidence, but it makes us feel great. And when people walk into our home, it feels like us. That is when you know your home is designed to be well lived in and well loved in. Is when somebody walks in your space and you're like. I'm like, totally. This is totally what I would think your house would look like.

A (41:52)

I love. Do you have, like, a design style and does it change? Like, I do feel like my. I feel like I want to change things by what I need in life right now. So if I need to feel energized, I'm, like, leaning towards, like, pops of color on the couch. If I want to calm down, I feel like I'm leaning to more like, cozy, muted neutrals. I have an entire closet for throw pillows. That's obnoxious. Okay, we're not going to talk about that.

B (42:17)

That. I would say that, like, you know, those little accents, those kind of jewelries of your home, your throw pillows, your throws, even, you know, even changing out, like, a mirror or a light fixture, even now, here and there. Those are a little bit bigger purchases, obviously, but, yes, they will change. I will say that I have found a place within me that, like, my home has kind of been very similar over the last 10 years, but I just keep. Keep adding layers. Because really, if you want to get to that home that is like, oh, this feels so much like me. It's just about layering. It's just how we layer our stories in life and we layer our paths in life. Like, you just keep layering. I personally am like a. I like antiques, but then I like clean lines. Everything is, like, smoky brown and camels and tobacco colors with, like, burnt oranges. So I'm very. I really like soulful spaces. That's what I would say. I like a soulful space where you walk in. You will see antique books from my Grandmother and all of her vintage things. And then vintage things from my father in law after he passed. And then pieces from travel, from traveling the world. You'll see those and then you'll see a random. In my kitchen, I have a random Trojan horse that holds the bananas and it's like, that's odd. But I think we get scared to be a little weird and odd in our home. So I'm always like, be a little adventurous. But if it brings you joy and if it truly feels like your soul when you walk in your home, you're on the right path. So if you're walking in and you're saying, I need energy today, then that's what you need. And in six months you can easily change out those pillows and that throw. Then there you go. Like it's just like seasonal decorating and you just swap out those little things. But the base, the foundation should just be like a really good pair of jeans and your favorite T shirt and then you layer on top of that.

A (44:12)

Oh my gosh, this is so good. So my listeners at home that are like, I have never been able to find a pair of jeans that make my butt look popping. But like, but like for their home, you know what I mean? How do we, how do we get that base? Because I feel like I just painted everything white and I'm like, there, it's a base, it's done. Everything's white and everything is white and it's a little bit insane asylum esque. So mostly for my listeners, but also me, how do we get the base so we can layer? Because your home sounds cozy and inviting and amazing. But starting from my home, I'm like, how do we make, how do you know what even is your style? Help us, help us.

B (44:54)

Well, I always say open your closet. So if you open your closet right now and you look at the colors that you have in your closet that your eye goes to when you're out in the wild or when you're on your computer and and you're purchasing that shirt and you're grabbing those shoes, what does your eye go to? So start in your closet. Stand in front of your closet. If you have a ton of blue, a ton of yellow, a ton of orange, or you have a ton of pattern and then you have almost, you know, or my closet, I have like this little tiny bit of pattern and then a ton of solid. So start there. That gives you a really good idea of where you lean for coloring. Start with your jewelry. When you put your jewelry on, are you a sterling silver Are you a gold? Do you mix it up a little bit? Do you like larger ornamental pieces? So then move into that. That's your hardware. That's your lighting. When you do your hair, is your hair like a fun color? Is it straight? Is it curly? These are all how much detail you like, so you can pull from your personal life. And then also how detail oriented are you? Do you want your house to be simple when we're making our bed? If you want it simple, get yourself a good comforter. Like, don't be having the, you know, the duvet and then the this and the five pillows. You don't need all that. Like, you just get the comforter that makes you feel good. So you start there. And then if you're building out a room, always start with a rug. And then the larger pieces of furniture moving out.

A (46:09)

This is so good. I look at my wardrobe, and I don't know if I need my home quite there. But I do love pinks and bolds and brights and so I think this is why I'm so in love with my curtains. But maybe I can have that nod in the place. Maybe I'll bring them out. Hey, I'm just gonna have out.

B (46:30)

Don't put them in your bedroom.

A (46:32)

Yeah, because that should be where I chill.

B (46:35)

Yeah, that should be where you chill. I personally, if you looked at my bedroom right now, it is the anti design bedroom. And I sometimes have called myself, like, the anti designer designer because it gets too deep, you guys. It gets too deep. Like, save some of your money. Go to Hawaii, you know, like, it doesn't have to be that deep. But my bedroom is, I should say our bedroom is so simple. It is. It has a nice pair of curtains. It has a nice headboard. It has one tiny little picture over the bed. It has a really nice, beautiful, you know, bedding on it. A dresser. But that's like, it is simplistically done. And I don't think about it. I walk in. I don't think about anything in that room. I don't go, oh, wow, look at that wallpaper. Oh, wow, look at that mold. Oh, wow, look at that. Why I'm walking into go to sleep to turn my brain off. It is neat. It is beautiful. It is the colors that make me feel good, but it's calming. I even did that with my son's room. I didn't let, like, it go too big until now. He's 10 and he wants Pokemon everywhere and this everywhere and that everywhere. But before that, it was calm. So in Your spaces that you are trying to turn your brain off for the day. Keep it calm now, wherever you wake up for the day and it's the first thing you see. Go get yourself a huge artwork that has all your colors and put it in your bathroom. Oversized. Think the most oversized piece of artwork you can find and put that in your bathroom. It's going to a be proportionate to the space, so it's going to look fantastic. But that's where you're waking up. That's where you're brushing your teeth. That's where you're getting ready. Maybe in your kitchen you put a little tiny picture right in your coffee station. That's bringing you back that joy and that energy. But not. I wouldn't put it in your bedroom because you can't turn your brain off.

A (48:15)

It's true. It's. This is such good advice. Like, I love the curtains. I feel energized, but I'm getting like five hours sleep here. Could your home be affecting? I think it really is. I know because when we have clutter and chaos, it was signaling to my brain, do more. And also you're lazy. And what you can't sleep, you've got to do the dishes, you've got to do the thing. And so I think we don't talk about this enough of what our home looks like and how it signals back in the effect it has on our mood and our emotions and everything. Are you a big declutterer?

B (48:50)

Yes, we. We don't. I mean, we don't have clutter in our home because I do. Like a once, I would say even once every two months, I'll go back through the closets, I'll go back through the playroom, I'll go back through, you know, a drawer. But we don't really live with. With clutter because that's how we set our home up. So we set it up without clutter. We have areas of clutter and we are okay with that. Like in the attic, things go there. And then, you know, twice a year, when you can get in there, when it's not scorching hot or freezing cold, we declutter. But really we live. It's so important for us personally as a family, the feeling and the vibe of our home. Which when you ask me, like, what kind of do I have a design style? Like, when I say soulful, it's because it also feels soulful. Like, it doesn't just look soulful, it like feels soulful. So for me, it's all the feeling like, if you want a cheery home, it's got to feel cheery. It's not just about. It's like the things that bring you the joy. So, no, we do not really. I do declutter, but I think we've been really good at decluttering through the years, so therefore, we don't have a lot of clutter.

A (49:58)

I love that you're saying that. That's what. Like, for me, what I realized was decluttering is just the same as vacuuming. It's like this thing you're supposed to just do on a regular basis. Like, you go through a drawer, you're like, oh, I don't need this anymore. This can go. Or this can go. Like, I'm constantly just little bits like, oh, this shirt. Actually, I don't love it anymore. I'm going to donate it. And I don't think about it. Whereas I think people who struggle with a home, that's. That just what, for whatever reason, constantly stays tidy is because they make decluttering this project that they do, like, once a year where they. Marie Kondo everything and they make a giant pile and they cry themselves to sleep because the pile is still there for a month.

B (50:37)

Yes.

A (50:39)

You know.

B (50:39)

You know, I have to say that I feel like the. The daily exercise of. Of decluttering and the daily exercise of staying organized is really the key to that space that everyone kind of aspires to have. Right. Because we're. That we all want that space. I don't think I've met anybody that is living in a decluttered space, but I'll go to someone's home. For instance, I had a client a couple weeks ago, and they were like, we're going to re. We're going to redesign this whole house. And I'm looking around, my designer brain's like, great. You could use some new lights. These new. This. We could switch this out. This wall could go. You could push the kitchen. My organization brain is going, do not. Do not do that, because you're going to. You're going to redesign this because it's not working for you. And what's really not working for you is that you have too much stuff. It's not where it needs to be. This home is not functioning for your family, not because of the design footprint, but of the actual organization and workflow of your space. So respect your space. Get a good workflow in your space, and then after you've lived in it for, like, six months to a year, and you know its rhythm and you know how it works and just like a machine. Then design, then redesign, then redo all these things.

A (51:52)

I want every. Just for clarity, everyone listening. This famous interior designer is saying that organizing is more important than interior design.

B (52:02)

Handsome down, hands down, hands down. I will say it all the time. And I personally, like, I prefer organization because I know just. I mean, that's not true because I do know how much like, a beautiful something that speaks to us in our home or like a couch that you've been wanting for. So, like, we waited so long and we customized our couch, and every time we sit on it, we've had it for five years. We all, my whole family will sit on. We're like, this is the best decision we've ever made. Look at us. We're all together. Like, like, and it was a big leap for us because, you know, it's a. It's an investment. So I can say that I like organization more than design, but I will say that they go hand in hand, but they are definitely different. And to think something is pretty, so therefore it's organized, or if it's. It's organized, it has to be pretty. That's. We got our wires crossed there. Like organization, life skill, design. Pretty.

A (52:54)

And just. Just organization wins. There, we said it. Okay. I love it. I love it so much. Oh, my gosh. You're just. I can talk to you all day, but I'm gonna let you go do your cool things. But my listeners, I know they're gonna fall in love with you because you're the coolest human being on the face of the earth. So please tell us how we can follow you and. And just be part of your journey and learn from your insane wisdom and be inspired by your awesomeness.

B (53:19)

Oh, why, thank you. Thank you for having me. This has been awesome. I feel like we should have connected earlier, but you can find me. But now we're connected, so that's what matters. You can find me at Carrie. It's felt like the scary movie or Sex and the City, whichever one you want to go with. And then Lachlan L, O, C, K, L, Y, N. And you can find me across the Instagram and the TikToks and the Facebooks, all in that way. And I'm also. I'm the face of QVC's brand home reflection. So if you ever want to turn your TV on and hear my advice every day, basically, in real life with a really cool brand and really cool products, come join me over on QVC as well.

A (53:56)

Well, that's so awesome. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you so much and thank all my listeners. We'll see you guys soon. I'd like to take a second to thank Today's podcast sponsor, HelloFresh. I've been getting three HelloFresh meals a week for a really long time and I have to say it's such a treat to me. I'm not a big fan of cooking. I'm not a big fan of going to the grocery store and meal planning. So having three days a week that are completely taken care of, I don't have to decide what's for dinner. I get to pick from over 100 delicious recipes and it comes pre portioned to my door. Everything is fresh right from the farm and it feels like, ah, I don't know, it feels almost like a little ritual following the step by step instructions, putting together this beautiful meal. It always comes out tasting like restaurant quality and it's cheaper than fast food or going to a restaurant. So if you want to give HelloFresh a try, honestly, just give yourself a little bit of a break in the kitchen. Go to hellofresh.com clutterpod10fm that's going to give you 10 free meals and a free item for life. It's been a little while since I had that incredible interview you just heard with Carrie and I took her advice and I soothed my bedroom. I made it real boring, toned it down and I'm loving it as much as I still love those bright, beautiful curtains. She was right in that your bedroom should be this really restful, boring place and 10 out of 10 would recommend. So thank you to Carrie and again I'm going to put links to all where you can follow her in the description of this podcast. Definitely want to check her out. Now it's time for my favorite segment which is is talk to Cass. First up, we have a question from Alyssa.

C (55:54)

Hi Cass, my name is Alyssa. I live in the Smoky Mountains with my husband and I actually have two questions for you. I'm new to your world so I like whenever I take your test, sometimes I get butterfly, sometimes I get ladybug. I really want to be a ladybug with butterfly tendencies. So I really like the idea of things being like stored in containers in closets. But I have, I, I love when I have like I've traveled a lot so I have a lot of visual things from my travels on display, that kind of thing. So my first question is that my. So I'm, I'm pregnant. I'm 16 weeks pregnant with my first baby and I have, like, never been organized, so I'm trying to get organized now. But I'm also concerned that once I have this baby that everything I will have learned and done will be for naught and will just fall back to disrepair. So I was wondering if you had a tip for that. And then the second question is that my husband, I made him take it and he is a B. And so that's interesting and different. But his garage is what you would expect, I guess, to find with a B. And he doesn't have any organization strategies. And I was wondering what you would do for a bee for a garage space. So he has tools, he works on cars, he has his hobby stuff down there.

B (57:31)

And. Yeah, that's it.

C (57:33)

Thank you so much for all that you do, and I'm looking forward to hearing from you. Thank you.

A (57:38)

I love that. Well, congratulations on the new baby. That is super exciting. A couple things. Let's start with the quiz. Sometimes the quiz is not super accurate because when you're taking it, you're kind of thinking about what your house looks like right now. Also your fantasy, what in an ideal world it would look like. So oftentimes the results aren't super accurate. I think a better indication of your organizing style is to take a look at the places you use every day. The stuff you use every day, like your bathroom. Are your bathroom products. Products? Are you naturally leaving them out all over the counter or are you taking time to kind of tuck and hide them away? If you're leaving them out, I'm going to say it's more than likely you're a butterfly. Also, the front of your fridge, is it filled with all sorts of things. Do you have, like, reminders and notes? Are you naturally leaving them out to visually remind you? If so, you're probably a butterfly. But this doesn't mean you like clutter. This is the thing everyone's like, I don't want to be a butterfly because I don't want to look at my message mess. Nobody wants to look at their mess. So being a butterfly means that the really important everyday things need to be visual. So bulletin boards and command centers and open shelving. But when everything's visual, nothing's visual. So you still want to tuck away things that you're not going to forget you own. Like your spatula doesn't need to be out on the counter. When you need to flip an egg or a pancake, you know you're going to look for that. So that's what I would start with, is identifying the really important things and giving it a visual home. And you're not. Don't worry. You're like, oh, I'm having a baby. Everything's gonna go. Everything is gonna go.

B (59:17)

Yep.

A (59:18)

And that's totally normal. My advice for you, you still have quite a few months, so this is exciting, is to declutter as much as possible, because for some strange reason, the tinier the human, the more stuff they have. I don't. The math. They're so small, yet they have so much stuff. So if you can really declutter and let go of anything that isn't serving you, that you're not using and loving now and streamline your home, it's going to be a lot easier to keep it organized and tidy when the baby comes. And for your husband, as a bee, garages don't come with storage. They're like this empty, cavernous nothing, which is the opposite of what a bee needs. They need vertical storage. So investing in shelving is so important. Pegboards, slat walls so he can get the stuff off the floor and off the piles and onto the wall. That's definitely going to set him up for success. So, again, congratulations, and I'm so excited to have you as a new follower of the clutterbug community. Next, let's hear from she.

D (60:25)

Hi, Cass, this is shahed. I'm 37, and you have been my therapist for over 10 years now. I've seen you growing and blooming, and you helped me grow and bloom alongside with you. And let me tell you how it was because of your authenticity and your real, real life stories. You admitted issues. You admitted having help, you admitted having adhd. You admitted your weight problems. You connected things in the present with issues from the past. All these made me feel so related. Okay. I just. I just. I feel like you understand me as my therapist. Okay, so let me tell you the beginning. I. I grew up in a family that was always on the move. We had our life in. In five suitcases. My mom always decluttered. She has OCT when it comes to cleaning. She cleaned like 247 until this day. Whenever she is not cleaning, she knew that she's sick and I wanted out of this. I was the opposite. I held up to things. I felt so attached to stuff. I had my five toys, and I still have them till today, even when my children are teenagers now. Okay. So I don't know if I didn't know at the beginning that the things I do in my life are related or connected to things in the past, but when you Talked about the scarcity mindset when you talked about being attached to things and the childhood. And I really felt it. Okay? So after I got married, I wanted out of this. I didn't want to clean. So 24 7. I cleaned whenever I felt like it. And it got really, really miserable. Things got accumulated, dirt, stuff. My house was a mess. It was not a livable condition for. I don't know, for how I used to live. And the worst happened when we had visitors. My mom was with them. Them and this. The house. Oh, my God, it was horrible. And she told me that you live in a dumpster. And I was actually. I was. I was living in a dumpster. And people, like, they laughed at it. And she didn't say it in front of them, but they felt it. They. They saw the dirt on the surfaces. They saw the piles of clothes. And I didn't hide them. I didn't feel the need to. And that's when I started following you. You just came like an angel from the sky or from YouTube and actually have been following and implementing things like taking pictures over the place. Because I noticed whenever I had to take a picture of my girl or my little girl, I had to move things from the background. I had to move a cushion or. Or move some piece of clothes or some papers. So move them around. Move them around. This is when I started really feeling like, no, this is not a YouTube. This is therapy to me. I started listening, and I tell you, I cried with every single video. And I waited for thank you for those who stayed for the end. This was my, like, the cherry on my cake. And then now I live in a completely different life. I have visitors, and I'm so proud of my life. So bright of my house last night. It was so clean and so perfect. And I opened the windows, and the wind just flew the curtains. And I prayed, God, and I thanked you and prayed for you. Believe me, you're doing a great message by being just you. You're being authentic, like, you're helping people all over the world. I thank you for where I got now. This is your friend from Iraq. You're helping people all over the world. Yes, I am from Iraq. You heard me, right? Okay. God bless you, Cass. You have changed my life. Thank you very much.

A (64:39)

Oh, that just hit me in all the feels. Oh, thank you so much for sharing. Sometimes I feel like, man, I talk a lot about cleaning your house and organizing, and I'm like, why am I doing this? And I love that you talked about your story with your mom. Because that was my big fear. I was like, I'm not going to end up like my mom. I'm going to do the opposite. And I went opposite and I lived in this like horrible hoardy thing because I didn't want to be neurotic. And it just makes me so happy to, to hear that you found that balance, that you can like, treat yourself in your home with respect without going to the extreme. And.

B (65:23)

And yet.

A (65:24)

Anyways, thank you. I'm feeling real emotional now, so you made me cry. But I'm happy. I'm so happy for you. And I'm also, I. I appreciate you taking the time to share your story because sometimes it does feel like, does anyone actually care? Like, does anybody care about organizing and cleaning? And it feels almost like it can feel kind of like there's so many more important things going on in the world, but this is what I choose to stand on a soapbox about. So, anyways, thank you. Last but not least, we have a question from Heather.

E (66:01)

Hi, Cass. I just wanted to start by saying that I don't come come across new YouTube channels all that often where they have a complete impact on my life for the better. And I just wanted to say thank you for being a source of such positivity and motivation for me. I have a bit of a unique situation, I think. I know you have said in the past that ladybugs and bees kind of butt heads because we're so polar opposites. Well, that's the situation that I find myself in with my husband. He is extremely visual. I'm very much put it away so I don't have to look at it. Clutter causes me anxiety and frustration and I'm trying to work with the tips that you have given us as far as rewards systems like praise and cleaning together. But I have an issue where my husband doesn't seem to know what a trash can is. He will bring an Amazon package into the house, open up the packaging and leave the packaging on the kitchen table. He will empty out his lunchbox and any trash that's in the lunchbox gets left on the kitchen counter. He just doesn't use the trash can. He leaves his trash everywhere. And it is mostly the trash. I bought a trash can that looks nice. It's not a drawer. It's one of those fold out trash cans that is very, very easy. It's not a drawer so you don't have to slide it all the way in. It simply opens and closes and hinges at the bottom. It's right next to the Kitchen table right up against the wall where it looks nice, but it is also very functional and in a convenient place. It is zoned properly, but it doesn't seem to be helping. And I find it difficult, if not impossible, to encourage him positively sometimes. And I can't just be there to witness him actually throw something away when he does use the trash can. So I would really love your input, your advice, your tips. I will immediately implement them like my life depends on it because I'm so tired of trash all over the house and going through multiple sessions a day of just going around gathering trash and shoving it in the trash can. I love you so much. Thank you very much.

A (69:13)

Heather.

B (69:15)

No.

A (69:16)

Okay. No more. Yes. There is things like. That's their organizing style, and they have to learn. This is something very different. This is something very different. Heather's husband, you're getting a. Stop it. This is disrespectful. And this does not require the cookie method. This requires a boundary. You are no longer going to pick up your husband's trash.

B (69:42)

Trash.

A (69:42)

He is going to pick up his trash, and you're gonna have to get a little nasty and in. And I understand. Okay? I. I can tell you he's not doing it on purpose. I don't know the man, but I can tell you he's not doing it on purpose. He is in the habit of just leaving it out and not thinking about it. But in order to change a habit requires him to want to change a habit. And so you need to have a real conversation that this hurts my feelings. It is disrespectful, respectful. I have tried little tricks and try, but nothing's changing. This is important to me. I need you to make it a priority. Can we set an alarm every night at this time and you go around and you pick up the trash and you throw it out without me picking it up. And hopefully he is open to this. And he's like, yes, I'm willing to do that. I'm not saying he'll do it every time. He might snooze the alarm, but when he starts picking it up and going through and like, holy crap, this is a lot of trash. And actually putting it in the garbage. Muscle memory is going to help him create a new habit that he throws it out. All the cookies in the world are. Are. Are not going to help in this instance. You're going to have to get a little. You're going to have to have a real boundary here, and that's okay. It's okay to stand up for yourself, even to your husband. And it's okay to say enough is enough because Heather's husband enough is enough. So again, I'm just going to reiterate this, this one last thing. There is a difference between being messy because your home is not set up for your organizing style and being messy because you're in the habit of being messy. And even if you set up an organizing style, you'll have to train yourself to use it and you and strengthen that muscle memory of like, using a new system. But if you're not willing to do the work to train yourself to do it, then that has nothing to do with your style and everything to do with just disrespecting your partner, yourself and your home. So this is a different situation. And it, and it requires commitment. It requires the acknowledgment of like, yes, I realize I need to change and I'm willing to do the work because I love you and I love my home and we both deserve it. Both Alyssa and Heather today talked about the struggle of having different organizing styles in the same home. Like partners with different organizing styles, kids with different organizing styles. Styles too is an issue. So not this week, but next week on my YouTube channel, I'll be doing an entire video dedicated to combining organizing styles, real life solutions and ideas and tricks that make your home work for everyone. So make sure you check that video on my YouTube channel, Clutterbug. It's coming out in two weeks. I want to take a quick second to thank today's podcast sponsor, Skylight. Skylight Calendar is this beautiful digital calendar that sits right on my kitchen counter. I actually have a second one in my office and it holds everything, all of my family's calendars in one place, all of our to dos, our menus, our chore list, tasks we want to accomplish. It really is a command center. So no longer having lots of sticky notes, reminders or bulletin boards, it's all in one place. And when we're not using it, it becomes this beautiful digital photo frame. I'm just so in love with my Skylight calendar. I absolutely recommend if you want to manage things like your kid's hockey schedule, you just take a quick picture of the paper schedule and it automatically uploads it and adds it to your calendar. With Skylight, it syncs all of your Google calendars into one place. So easy even I can use it. If you want to give this a try. Skylight is now offering my listeners $30 off off their 15 inch calendars by going to my skylight.com clutterbug I really enjoyed today's podcast. I really love talking with Cari. She's first of all so cool and just has had the most amazing life. But it's also really interesting to get to talk to someone who's coming from the same kind of career that I did with home organization. But she took it a step further and really combined interior design and I do think they go hand in hand. I have not made that transition. I feel like I am not good at it, but maybe I just need to kind of put down the imposter syndrome and sort of embrace it. Because creating a beautiful, functional home involves both organization and interior design. So this was a real treat and thank you so much just like always for being here and for hanging out with me. I hope you're proud of whatever you got done today because you pushed the needle forward and you, you deserve a beautiful home that hugs you at the end of the day. Thank you so much, my clutterbugs, and I'll see you next time.