← CMO Confidential
CMO Confidential
Adam Brotman and Andy Sack | Forum 3| It's a Bird! It's a Plane! Holy Shit, It's AI!" Part 1
00:36:21
Loading summary
Transcript57 lines
- [00:00]
Mike Linton
The CMO Confidential Podcast is a proud member of the I Hear Everything Podcast Network. Looking to launch or scale your podcast, I Hear Everything delivers podcast production, growth and monetization solutions that transform your words into profit. Ready to give your brand a voice then visit iheareverything.com welcome to CMO Confidential, the podcast that takes you inside the drama, decisions and choices that go with.
- [00:30]
Adam Brotman
Being the Head of Marketing.
- [00:32]
Mike Linton
Hosted by five time CMO Mike Linton.
- [00:37]
Andy Sack
Welcome marketers, advertisers and those who love them. The Chief Marketing Officer, Confidential CMO Confidential is a program that takes you inside the drama, the decisions and the politics that go with being the Head of Marketing at any company and what is one of the most scrutinized jobs in the executive suite. I'm Mike Clinton, the former Chief Marketing Officer of Best Buyer, eBay, Farmers Insurance and Ancestry.com now this show is brought to you by Props, our title sponsor. Props is a performance driven content platform. They combine the attraction of creator content with the results of paid media. Instead of focusing on impressions or posts, Props takes responsibility for leads and customers. Check them out at Props Co. I'm here today with my guests Adam Brotman and Andy Sack. Today's topic It's a bird. It's a plane. Holy shit. It's AI Part one. Now Adam was the Chief Digital Officer of Starbucks as well as the EVP of Global Retail Operations. He also served as the President and Chief Experience Officer and Co CEO that so many titles at J. Crew. Andy is a Managing Partner at Keen Capital and the Innovation Arts Group and has had many experiences in the digital and financial world. Together they founded Forum3, a company focused on the intersection of artificial intelligence and digital transformation. But more importantly, they wrote a book called AI first and Full Disclosure. I met them after their thought provoking, almost mind blowing session at the Marketing AI Convention this past summer when they talked about what they learned from this book. Welcome Andy and Adam.
- [02:30]
Adam Brotman
Good to be here.
- [02:32]
Mike Linton
Great to have you Mike. Glad to be here too.
- [02:34]
Andy Sack
This will be really fun. So. So let's start with a book. I know you all had an original idea and the first title was Our AI Journey. Tell Us. And then when you started doing the interviews, you decided it should be more along the lines of something like holy shit, take us through that metamorphosis so our listeners can understand what you learned about AI and how your thinking evolved, why you were creating this whole book concept.
- [03:06]
Adam Brotman
I'll let Andy actually answer that because he loves the title the Holy shit moment. And and so since you mentioned it A couple times I'm gonna, Andy's probably excited to jump in. So, Andy, why don't you talk about the evolution of the book and then I'll, I'll jump on top.
- [03:22]
Mike Linton
Adam. It's a testament that we're good partners because I was like, oh, I'll take that one. So we got approached about, you know, a year and a half ago, two years ago by Harvard Press to author a book on AI, generative AI. And, and so we started out with that and we were like, okay. At first we were debating whether we should do it. We decided to do it and we were like, okay, the book's going to be called RAI Journey. And almost exactly a year ago, November of last year, we did our first interview and RAI Journey was basically, you know, Adam is the Chief digital Officer of Starbucks. Mike, I think you left out, I think a relatively important part to my background, which is I spent seven years working with Satya Nadella at Microsoft working on digital transformation. And so the two of us, sort of middle aged career technologists, set out on a new learning journey of like, oh, this is sort of the new third platform where platform one was called the introduction of the web. Platform two is social media cloud and really mobile Web two. And now we're in this new thing and it's, it's AI just like all.
- [04:39]
Andy Sack
Those other platforms, right?
- [04:41]
Adam Brotman
Yeah.
- [04:42]
Mike Linton
Well, at least the experience of those prior platforms is relevant to this one. And so we went and had our first interview with Sam Altman November of last year. And I think we're going to talk about that meeting. I won't, I don't want to get into that. But we had, we met with Sam Altman. After Sam, we met, we met with a bunch of other thought leaders in AI, Reid Hoffman, Bill Gates, Mustafa Solomon. And we were talking to these thought leaders. In any, in each case they would talk about, yeah, this AI thing, you know, it's huge. It's. It's as big as the Internet. And they were basically talking to us about their Eureka in my, in what I. Their eureka moment, my translation, their holy shit moment with AI. And so that culminated basically in March when Adam and I were giving a keynote speech at Imagine AI in Las Vegas. And I basically described the holy shit moment of AI for these thought leaders. And if it's a holy shit moment for the thought leaders, it really is a holy shit moment for society, for business and for the individual. I don't think people. There's a lot of talk about it. There's some, there's Some concern about layoffs, but I don't think we, myself included, even though I've interviewed these people, really understand just how much of a change is upon us. And it's really coming in the next 12 to 24 months. And so I advocated with Harvard Press. I really wanted to call the book the Holy Shit Moment. And ultimately the book is called AI First.
- [06:26]
Andy Sack
No, the Holy Moment Holy Shit Moment is just more marketable. I'm just saying there's so many things you could do with Holy Shit Moment. I want to bet.
- [06:36]
Mike Linton
Too bad you're not at Harvard Press.
- [06:38]
Andy Sack
I know. I'm sure they're going to call me after they listen to this show. But tell us, let's talk about some of the Holy Shit Moments here. And you guys can swap off, because a list of people you talk to is. It's like the who's who of AI. And. And while you're in here, we've in this whole thing about first you thought this was going to be, you know, just like the next generation of stuff, but then you realize it's actually something bigger. So tell us about kind of, you know, some of these interviews and the most impactful stories that created Holy Shit in your head.
- [07:18]
Adam Brotman
So why don't I. I'll talk about. Let me talk a little bit about that Sam Altman meeting. I think, Andy, you should talk about the Bill Gates discussion.
- [07:25]
Mike Linton
Right.
- [07:26]
Adam Brotman
You know, because so. And keeping in mind that most of the listeners of this show are marketers, or a lot of them are, you know, we actually came at that meeting and we came at this journey, this learning journey with an overall digital transformation mindset, but with an emphasis on marketing. Like, that's. We came at it like, you know, I wonder what this means for marketers. Most of our, A lot of people we deal with, our marketers were sort of former marketers in some respects. So when we came to that meeting, we, we sat down with Sam and we documented this in the book, but we sat down with Sam and we were just trying to understand, you know, tell us more about where this technology is going, where you're driving this technology and what it means for marketers. And we, we honestly expected it to go where we would learn a bunch about the technology and, you know, the, the normal things you take to think about when you go into like this. And instead he wanted to talk about this concept called AGI, which stands for Artificial General Intelligence. And what that means is if you've achieved AGI, and there's lots of different definitions of it, but for Everyone that's listening, just think about, like, that super intelligence, almost science fiction level of AI. That's really what AGI means on some level where the AI is smarter than almost every expert on every function. Okay. And that took us. That was. That wasn't even the holy shit moment. I'll explain what it was for us. That was. But that took us by surprise.
- [09:00]
Andy Sack
We were like, oh, he described the Star Trekking world.
- [09:03]
Adam Brotman
Yeah, yeah. We were like, wait, why are you talking about this? We're just trying to ask you where this is going and what it means for marketers. And he wanted to focus on this concept of artificial general intelligence that we weren't really focused on at the time. And it. And the reason I think it's important to. Why am I bringing this up? Is that because, like Andy just said, most people that we talk to now, probably most listeners of this show, they're not fully understanding how powerful and how fast this technology is moving. And I. And I'm saying that from. I'm not. I'm not being patronizing. Like, that's where Andy and I were in our journey. Like, we weren't understanding that. And when he said, no, we're focused on AGI, and we were like, well, what does that mean for a marketer? Because that's where our head was and still is in a lot of ways. Like, what does that mean? And he was like, oh, 95% of everything that a marketer does and their agencies do and their individual contributors do they. I will be able to do. You'll just spin up agents and it'll be capable of spinning up synthetic audiences. And like, you just imagine what an agency does, what marketers do. It will be able to do it. It'll be able to do it effectively as well as the best marketers, at least to a 95% extent and for free, and pretty much instantly. And so that was pretty shocking. We're like, oh, God. Okay, that's. That's not what we expected to hear. And the moment when we said, when is this coming? And he said, five years, give or take. And by the way, at the time we. We published this chapter because we're publishing our chapter serially, that quote and that timeline and everything was kind of a newsworthy thing, sort of. Yeah. Now, if you ask now, the idea of AGI coming along within the next four or five years is actually not even that controversial. Like, it's. A lot of people think it's gonna be next two to three years, maybe 10 on the outside. Right. So we left that meeting and I'll turn it over to Andy to talk about the Bill Gates discussion, but we left that meeting. That was our holy shit moment. Like.
- [11:09]
Andy Sack
Yeah, it's like a meteor striking all the marketers in the, in the. It's an extinction event for, for, For a bunch of marketers.
- [11:18]
Adam Brotman
Yeah, possibly. I mean, I will talk about that because I actually, Andy and I have a thought that there. It's, it's more complicated than that. And, and, and maybe slightly more optimistic than that. Although we're realists. It was. But to your point, it was. Mike, we, we were, we left that. We pretty much ended the meeting at that point because we were both kind of speechless because we didn't understand both how powerful and how fast this technology was moving and that that was the mission of this organization and of these major AI labs. And so we left and we were stunned. We went across the street, sat at this park in San Francisco and just kind of stared off into the city and at the Golden Gate Bridge and just kind of like pondering like if it's even close to five years from now. We, we, we need to rearrange our mission as a company and kind of what we're doing with our life to get that message across to as many marketers and as many CEOs as possible.
- [12:14]
Andy Sack
And I think we make on as we went in there thinking he was. That AI was going to automate and personalize emails at speed. And we went out thinking it's going to change society as we know it.
- [12:27]
Mike Linton
Yeah, that's right.
- [12:28]
Andy Sack
So, so let's hear the Bill Gates story.
- [12:31]
Mike Linton
Yeah, so that was the story of Sam Alpha was November a year ago. And so basically two months later, we were fortunate enough to sit down with Bill Gates and have an interview with him. And the story, I mean, the interview was fascinating, spending an hour just, you know, teeing up Bill and letting him expand because he's, he had the vantage point of really the entire birth of the PC industry computer on every desktop. And he basically told us the story of. Yeah, the first time he met Sam Altman and talked about OpenAI's work and ChatGPT, he likened it to when in the 19 late 70s, he went to San Francisco and saw the Alto computer. And what he saw there was based, like what he talked about. That interaction with the Alto computer basically laid the foundation for really the next decade of Microsoft's strategy and ethic. And he was so blown away by the Alto computer at Xerox PARC that it was really, when he saw that it was his first technological holy moment. And, and it inspired him and, and really late as he, as I said, laid out the, the groundwork for that Strategy and Microsoft's 10 to 15 year plan to get a PC on every desktop, you know, and he compared ChatGPT. When he sat down with it, he was like, you know, at first he said, I, I think it's, it's as when I interacted with ChatGPT and he was talking at that point, 3, 5. It was, it was as significant as that. And then he pondered for a moment, he was like, you know, it might even be more significant than that. And for Bill to say that and to just have. And his comment was like, you know, the last 20 to 30 years have been about getting really, the infrastructure, a PC on every desktop, Internet connectivity, like forming the network, like what took 30 plus years, so 40 years to get to the state that we're at now. All of that infrastructure really had to be in place in order for ChatGPT to be born.
- [14:55]
Adam Brotman
Andy, by the way, just to interrupt for one second, all the content to your point, like, yeah, you had to have the computerization, the Internet, social media, all those things you mentioned. And that produces all these billions of pages or hundreds of billions of pages on the web for these models to train on. So that's fascinating. Right?
- [15:16]
Mike Linton
Yeah, sorry.
- [15:19]
Adam Brotman
You'Re totally right.
- [15:19]
Mike Linton
He, so he described seeing ChatGPT as, you know, as, as significant as that moment of seeing the Alto computer. And then he went on further to say that, yeah, he was like, he still thought it was five to ten years out of. He's like, yeah, Sam, what you've got is, you know, like, that's cool. Like, you know, call me, call me when you can, when you can when, when Chatbot can solve the AP Biology exam, you know, and in his mind he was like, oh, like he was still poo pooing it and thought that, that, that Sam was a good salesman and was out, you know, sort of evangelizing. And he got a call less than six months later and they were like, we'd like to set up that dinner to, to show you. We, we have some things to show you. And they basically, ChatGPT4 before they'd been released, basically passed the AP biology exam and, and got all but one perfect, perfect answers, including an essay writing thing. And so it got a five on the AP Biology exam. And Bill described that as his holy shit moment. And, and we came out of that interview going, wow, like this is even bit like if Bill's Saying that this is even bigger than we expected. And so it's just a continued part of our, of the book that you called the Holy Moment, which is really called AI first.
- [16:43]
Andy Sack
I still like holy shit on the chat TPT, I guess it was 3.5 that got to, got to exempt itself from Biology 101 in college since it.
- [16:53]
Mike Linton
Yes.
- [16:54]
Andy Sack
They'd be thinking so, so I went, I want to go more into the, the, the holy shit moment. And what does holy shit actually mean to you in terms of you start up by thinking it's going to change marketing and then you realize, oh my God, it's going to change all of marketing and agencies and maybe it's going to change the world. Describe what it's going to change and, and we can, we can debate that Harvard didn't call it holy shit, but describe what holy shit really looks like in your mind as this thing rolls out over the next five years.
- [17:31]
Adam Brotman
Well, I mean, first of all, we, we haven't even seen this. This is a lot of the rest of the, you know, we went from, in the chapters of the book, we went from talking to Sam Altman. The, actually the second interview we had was with Reid Hoffman. Then we talked about Gates and, and so on. Then the stuff of Solomon and so on. And one of the key arcs of the book of why it was such a holy shit moment. What does it mean is we've only seen the tip of the iceberg so far. It is already so crazy. But like we haven't seen full agents yet. Like where they can, where the AI can, you can spin up agents effectively do work for you and go accomplish goals. And it's not just a chat, it's actually like spinning up a worker, a knowledge worker.
- [18:16]
Andy Sack
Like what would be an example of a, of an agent you would, you could spin up?
- [18:21]
Adam Brotman
Yeah, imagine an, a real example of an agent you could spin up is I want, I want you to go, you talk into the AI saying I want you to go email, call or text a thousand of our customers and I want you to interview them live like you would in a focus group. And I here's the criteria I'm looking for. And I want you to like, you know, you can be honest that you're an AI, but I want you to basically interview a bunch of customers and then talk to them and then synthesize their, your, your interviews with them and then come back to me, deliver me a report and recommendations. Like, that's nothing like what you use ChatGPT for now. Like, another example is you could say I want to book a trip to, with my family to Paris. I want you to research it and I want you to book it and I want you actually like book it for me. Like those are examples of what an agent does. Right now when you interact with an AI, it's, it's a non agentic conversation because it's not like you're just giving the AI a goal to go off and do autonomous goals on its own. It's actually just a, you're, you're prompting or chatting and it's reacting right and you're learning. It's incredible. And it can do. And that's a lot of what knowledge work is, which is like, get me answers, do research, like help me get to an insight. That's a lot of what knowledge work is. That's what AI is good for now. And it can create images, it can create videos, it can create code. But that's not agentic necessarily. Agentic is, it's on its own and it's actually doing much more when you're giving it a goal and it's going off and doing things and coming back. And that's going to be the next wave of AIs that's happening probably next year by the way, as the models are getting ten times better effectively and, and staying and maybe even less expensive because the chips are getting more powerful, the, the training runs are getting more expensive and better. And so there's all of that's happening in terms of like we're just about to enter into a new era where you've got like full blown chain of thought reasoning, PhD level intelligence combined with agents. And all of a sudden it's not a fantasy to say, oh wow, I can, I can actually give the AI work that I would normally give to my employees or to an agency so that, that we haven't really gotten there yet. It's right now it's good at like supplementing, augmenting, adding productivity. It's like, it's really important to use now, but if, but it's going to get even more impactful over the next 12. As Andy said, over the next 12 to 24 months you're about to see it take a step change. We think of being even more, I'll call it powerful and frankly more disruptive. And I want to just say one thing before we get too long. Andy and I want to make sure everyone listening to this, we have the same fears and concerns and questions around AI that you probably all do. We're not coming at this in some sort of excited, excited sense of like, oh, this is so great. No matter what. It's just. We're more like realizing this is happening. So we want to do everything we can to give every marketer, every CEO and every organization an opportunity to, like, get ahead of it and so we can all figure this out together.
- [21:44]
Andy Sack
I love this word agentic. And I wanted. This is a little long question, so bear with me. If I think of the, you know, the digital revolution and then, you know, the 2.0 and mobile and everything else, those all were predicated on everybody finally using them and the infrastructure getting in place to deliver them. When I think about the way you just described AI, the technology and the capability rolling along at speed regardless of who can use it, and the adaptation of the AI is not in the way of the development of the AI. So this makes it a completely different kind of thing. Am I looking at that the right way or not?
- [22:31]
Mike Linton
Mike, you are. I mean, you simplified it, but you are thinking about it. I'm still. Before I engage fully with your. With this question, I'm still thinking about your. Your examples and Adam's answer. I wanted to add another use case because I think. Because I think use cases are illustrative to, to the holy shit moment. And Adam talked about two business use cases. But I just, I happen to watch an Eric Schmidt video recently in which he talked about what's going to happen over the next 12 to 18 months, which is basically increased memory in the context window agents and text to action. And the example that he used as a result. And it's really. He talks about that it's all three of those things coming together in approximately the same time and the unification of those tech advances in AI that enable really an exponential acceleration. We're already going really fast, but it's, it's going even faster. That, and the example he uses is like, you know, there's a lot of talk in the United states about whether TikTok should, you know, whether it should. It's a phenomenal app. People love it. It's got tremendous consumer engagement if you've ever spent any time. It's like, it's a phenomenal application that's to have some association with China. And, and so he was saying that it may be banned. And he's like, in the event that it is banned, I'm not saying that I recommend this, but you could actually instruct AI to go take. Build the feature set of. Of to mimic TikTok and take in as much of the content as you can. And if it, and, and if it doesn't go viral within three months, actually have it iterate until it does go viral. And so basically you could set the AI out on a mission to go replicate TikTok. And he was telling the entire class to go do that. It's like, I'm not recommending that you go do that, but that's what I would tell all of you to go do. And it was, it was a speech at Stanford. You can, the listeners can go. I recommend going to listen to it because it's really. He says it in a much more articulate fashion. But if you take that idea of what he's saying, it's basically any soft. It's a combination of the agent. It starts to go. It can start to build and create what we used to associate with software that would require hundreds of developers and a lot of time and a lot of capital to go build that. You could basically go instructed to do that for a couple of thousand dollars.
- [25:16]
Andy Sack
That is a great use case and thanks for putting that out there. And it does feed my. I want to go back to that question I put on the table, which the technology is going as fast as it can, regardless of the users or anything else which is totally different than any of the other technologies that have come on. How do you even wrap your mind around that if you're out there in business and, and, or government or society and think about it.
- [25:48]
Adam Brotman
So I mean, can I take, can I take this one?
- [25:51]
Mike Linton
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [25:55]
Adam Brotman
We have this.
- [25:56]
Mike Linton
We, when we talk about this topic internally, we talk about, we really talk about the pandemic and Covid that, you know, in 2019, like really the most. The only human experience that we have tangibly of exponential change in growth was Covid and that if you, in 2019, if you had said like, oh, all. All business meetings are going to be held over zoom and, and it's going to. And everybody's going to be working from home and, and 97% of people will do that. All of us would have said. We would have said no way. And then sure enough, you know, come April or May, 100 and 120 days in, basically consumer behavior, business behavior and government behavior changed radically. Like, you know, this. I mean, we forget. It was the boom of order from home and my wife was out there with antiseptic things washing everything out and wiping down cans. Like behavior changed massively. And I think, I think AI is, is kind of like that.
- [27:02]
Adam Brotman
Yeah, yeah, I would, I would add, I would add that to Your point, Mike, it's, it is really hard to wrap your head around it because we're, we have experienced, Andy and I and all of everyone listening has experienced technology evolution in a somewhat linear fashion. I mean, if you could call it exponential, but it's somewhat linear.
- [27:29]
Andy Sack
It feels like you can, you can start it out.
- [27:33]
Adam Brotman
Yeah. There was like Moore's Law and Metcalfe's Law.
- [27:38]
Andy Sack
Yeah.
- [27:39]
Adam Brotman
And you, and you went. And then the eras of Web one to Web two to Web three, they just cut into AI. Like they sort of went a certain way. What we, I think what we're entering into and what we're probably entering into is it, to Andy's point, going to a place that's not based on the prior pattern, it is not linear. So, for example, Andy's TikTok point that he mentioned, which is a great one. Like the. As a marketer, you're used to having to like, like we were just talking about like having to like figure out what marketing software solutions are out there, what point solutions or what in the age of gen AI you would call them.
- [28:22]
Andy Sack
I thought all this stuff, well, you.
- [28:23]
Adam Brotman
Can call it deterministic software and so deterministic software, meaning, like it just works the way it was coded and if it doesn't, there's a bug and, and it, and that's what it does. And it doesn't do more than that. And you can't, you as a marketer aren't going to write code and build your own software. You're gonna expect your technology department to help you find enterprise software solutions. Point solutions that work to meet your needs and you gotta build for them and you gotta like, integrate them and do all these things. We, we are probably going to start to get to an era where as a marketer, you're, you're going to just think up what you want and you're going to start to collaborate with AI, your AI system, a chat GPT or a cloud or whatever, or Gemini, and say, I'm trying to solve this problem as a marketer, I would like software to help me do this is the software I'm imagining and you help me build it. And it will build it. Right. And that's kind of a roll your own enterprise software solution, which is unfathomable. That's not linear, right? That's, that's, that's unfathomable.
- [29:30]
Andy Sack
Exponential. It's totally like just.
- [29:32]
Adam Brotman
Yeah, it's unfathomable. Right. So when we were talking to Bill Gates, an interesting side note, but it kind of relates to this is Bill Gate. We were talking about one of the three features. This is part of the suite of features of OpenAI's ChatGPT which is this advanced voice mode where it can translate in real time interruptible and completely with reasoning understanding across I want to say like 150 plus languages. And it's so a real time universal human like advanced voice translating feature. Bill was saying 10 years ago, seven years ago that would have been a multi billion dollar company like just doing that feature. And that feature is just a free feature of, of OpenAI and coming soon to all the other platforms. And so you're, you're like those are sort of like paradigm shifts around how to think about the software. So as again as a marketer that's what should be on your mind is like it's I. And not to cut to like is this going to take my job or what does this mean? But you said how do you wrap your head around it? I actually think as a marketer you, you might want to start, I mean I would like start thinking like I, I'll have to compartmentalize that for a minute. Right now I should be trying to get educated and literate on what is going on with this thing. Where is it going, what's my company doing to sort of embrace this so that I can start experimenting with the things that are going to make my job easier and as opposed to getting caught up in the is this going to take my job? Because you know there we don't have an answer for that right now. Like it might be the nature of the job of marketing changes to being more managing AI systems or something like that or designing AI systems to accomplish the marketing goals as opposed to you know, doing the straight up marketing output that you're used to doing. Like the these are the things that Andy and I are really trying to encourage companies to think about and start getting literate and start experimenting with it right now.
- [31:34]
Andy Sack
Talk about. So I'm somewhere between the I can use this to write legal briefs and personalize emails versus this is going to obliterate humanity. I should be moving as fast as I can in the execution but thinking bigger. Right? And one of the things you said in your talk or in our pre show is the past is not going to be a good predictor for AI. And you also talked about being on the other side or the far side of the trough. Tell us what that means as you look at AI and I think you've done a little bit of that already on the you can't think about this as technology burdened by any adoption or infrastructure. You have to think about it of technology as technology unleashed. Add any color to that you want and then tell me about the trough.
- [32:35]
Adam Brotman
Adam, you want that one? Sure. So the, so on the trough point, my first thought is we interviewed probably the leading example of a company that has completely adopted an AI first mindset and practice, which is Moderna, the vaccine biotech company. And they went out, they, they've always wanted to be AI first, even before ChatGPT was a thing like that was a part of their reason for being was to use technology and AI to help solve problems. Some of these biotech questions so they could help, you know, cure diseases and prevent diseases. That's their mission. And they've, so they've, in a weird way, they've been AI first. In the beginning, they went out and sought out the leading AI digital transformation expert in the world. And it's not Andy and I, you know, we, we aspire to be that. But you know, it was this guy named Bryce Chalamel who was working at Google, who had come from bcg, he lived in France, he was a professor, he was out, he wrote books. And then he ultimately led the Google Clouds AI transformation group. And, and him and his team were plucked out of Google to go work at Moderna to lead an AI transformation. And they got a head start on this. They got educated, they ran hackathons, they developed a generative AI champions team. They did all these practices to get 3,000 of their 5,000 employees using AI every single day and to make it not just a random active AI kind of thing, but actually like a fully blown scaled AI first organization where they were harnessing AI. And what he said to us was, he said, and he said all these people are like saying that is there too much hype about AI? And because, and he said, he, he said to Andy and I, he goes, we're over on the other side of the trough of disillusionment of the hype cycle, saying, hey everybody, we're over here and it's real. And they claim to be, they claim on their, they, they published a thing online, a case study, if you will, or customer story online that says they feel like they can do five times the amount of product marketing and product development that they could have done before they became AI first. And they're probably doing the work of a hundred thousand people or so with a 5,6000 person organization. And that's when he was saying, it's real if you adopt it, the level of, like, innovation and productivity gains are real across every function. That's, that's what, you know, when I think about the question of, like, being on the other side of the trough, I think about what Bryce was telling us about where Modern is at. And I think it was just a good case study to, to keep in mind that, you know, if you, if you would, if you embrace it and invite it to the team, embrace AI and get curious and get literate and really try and infuse it in what you're doing, it can have this, you know, profound effect. And you can be one of the companies that has a competitive advantage. As this technology is speeding along and the capabilities are getting better and more fascinating. You want to be a company that's. It's like surfing, right? You want to be. You want to. You don't. You want to start paddling now, you know, you don't want to be paddling as that wave in the front. Unfortunately, the wave isn't going to be probably coming from behind you. It's going to be probably coming at you.
- [36:06]
Mike Linton
There you go.
- [36:07]
Adam Brotman
Being as powerful as it.
- [36:08]
Andy Sack
So this says you got to start practicing and experimenting right away. And you can't outsource this to, like, one or two people. You've got to plug it in. And we'll talk more about this in a minute because I want to flip now into marketers. So after AI has whatever it's going to do, but we'll put it in the positive light. Save society, cured cancer, created a startech, like Intelligence Intergalactic foundation, what kind of impact is it going to have on marketing and agencies?