CMO Confidential Podcast Summary: "Dan Salkey | Small World | Merging Marketing & Entertainment - Is It Right For Your Business?"

Release Date: July 15, 2025

In this insightful episode of CMO Confidential, host Mike Linton engages in a thought-provoking conversation with Dan Sulke, co-founder and strategy partner of Small World, an agency dedicated to creating Entertainment-First Brands. They delve into the intricate relationship between marketing and entertainment, exploring its applicability and effectiveness for various businesses.

1. Introduction

Mike Linton sets the stage by introducing Dan Sulke and his expertise in merging marketing with entertainment. He emphasizes the growing importance of entertainment in modern marketing strategies.

• Mike Linton [00:35]: "CMO Confidential is a program that takes you inside the drama, the decisions and the politics that go with being the head of marketing at any company."

2. Defining Entertainment in Marketing

Dan Sulke elaborates on what it means to integrate entertainment into branding, clarifying that it's not about transforming into an entertainment brand, but about being entertaining.

• Dan Sulke [02:08]: "It's not about being an entertainment brand, it's about being entertaining... crafting a brand that earns and owns its audience's attention."

He outlines the concept of entertainment-first brand building, which focuses on behaving like a character, content studio, or storyteller rather than a traditional advertiser. This approach leverages humor, character, storytelling, and spectacle to create cultural value and capture attention in a fragmented media landscape.

3. "Entertain or Die" Research Findings

Dan introduces the "Entertain or Die" research conducted in partnership with Tracksuit, a brand tracking company. This study surveyed 20,000 people globally to answer three pivotal questions:

1. Who are the most entertaining brands?
2. What makes these brands entertaining?
3. Does entertainment value drive revenue growth and share price?

• Dan Sulke [05:29]: "96% of the brands in the top 30 of our index had revenue growth last year, and two-thirds had double-digit revenue growth."

The findings reveal a strong correlation between entertainment value and business growth, indicating that entertaining brands significantly outperform their counterparts.

4. Traits of Entertaining Brands

Dan identifies four key attributes that make brands entertaining:

1. Social Engagement: Creating the most engaging content on social media platforms.
2. Attention/Surprise: Brands that shock or grab attention with edgy or unconventional content.
3. Characterfulness: Developing distinct characters or mascots that embody the brand's personality.
4. Humor: Utilizing humor effectively to build entertainment value.

• Dan Sulke [08:33]: "There are four things in particular that they over-indexed in... social, surprise, character, and humor."

Examples of entertaining brands include TikTok, Netflix, Liquid Death, and Duolingo, each excelling in these attributes to capture and retain audience attention.

5. Application to B2B Brands

Mike raises a pertinent question about the applicability of entertainment-first strategies for B2B brands targeting specialized audiences, such as surgeons or CFOs.

• Mike Linton [10:51]: "I'm a B2B brand. I'm marketing to surgeons. I'm an investment bank selling to CFOs. Do I always want to go down the entertainment route or is that dangerous?"

Dan advocates for the universal applicability of entertainment-first approaches, emphasizing that building and owning audience attention is crucial across all sectors.

• Dan Sulke [10:51]: "You cannot afford not to follow an entertainment first approach to marketing."

He cites the example of Netscout, a traditionally "boring" B2B brand, which collaborated with famed director Werner Herzog to create a documentary titled "Lo and Behold: Reveries of the Internet". This unconventional marketing move garnered significant attention and reinforced Netscout's brand relevance.

6. Best and Worst Practices in Entertainment-First Marketing

Dan contrasts effective entertainment strategies with common pitfalls. He warns against self-obsessed approaches where brands assume their products are inherently entertaining, often leading to failed campaigns.

• Dan Sulke [16:06]: "The worst attempts... are those which are self-obsessed. They inherently think that their product and their brand is going to be the most entertaining thing in the world."

Conversely, he highlights the success of brands that own their attention rather than merely renting it through expensive ads or celebrity endorsements.

• Dan Sulke [18:00]: "I would always rather own 10,000 eyeballs than rent 100,000."

7. Measuring the Impact of Entertainment in Marketing

Mike and Dan discuss the importance of moving beyond vanity metrics like impressions and reach. They emphasize measuring engagement quality through metrics such as shares, saves, and attentive cost per thousand (a metric that tracks views over a specific duration).

• Dan Sulke [20:18]: "If your post has a 2% or higher likes to comments or likes to views ratio, it's probably going to be a success."

This approach ensures that marketing efforts genuinely resonate with the audience and drive meaningful interactions.

8. Building Brand Characters and Mascots

Dan explores the resurgence of brand mascots and characters as powerful tools for entertainment-first branding. He advises brands to develop unique characters or collaborate with niche influencers rather than relying on established celebrities.

• Dan Sulke [23:21]: "You're going to find your own cast of creators... not going for big, big person, the macro celebrity."

Examples include Liquid Death's "Murderland" universe and their inventive use of brand narratives to engage audiences.

9. Managing When Entertainment Goes Wrong

Addressing potential setbacks, Dan discusses strategies for brands when their entertainment efforts backfire. Using the Bud Light controversy as an example, he underscores the importance of authenticity and staying true to brand identity.

• Dan Sulke [24:48]: "They use it as fuel to do more. They lean into the risk and commit to the bit."

Brands like Liquid Death effectively turned negative comments into creative content, demonstrating resilience and adaptability.

10. Practical Advice for Implementing Entertainment-First Marketing

As the conversation concludes, Dan offers actionable insights for brands looking to adopt an entertainment-first approach:

1. Continuous Content Creation: Develop a content system that allows for rapid idea generation and deployment.
2. Maximize Daily Engagement: Consistently produce entertaining content to stay relevant in the "world of lots of Littles."
3. Adapt and Iterate: Embrace a writer's room style approach to foster creativity and increase viral opportunities.

• Dan Sulke [28:16]: "You need to think in this world of lots of Littles, you need to be entertaining every single day."

He emphasizes the necessity of agility and innovation in today's fast-paced digital landscape to maintain audience engagement and drive sustained growth.

11. Conclusion

Mike wraps up the episode by reiterating the importance of speed and depth in content creation, thanking Dan for his valuable insights. He encourages listeners to explore further episodes and stay engaged with the CMO Confidential series.

Key Takeaways:

• Entertainment-First Marketing is essential across all industries, including B2B, to capture and maintain audience attention.
• Traits of Entertaining Brands: Social engagement, surprise, characterfulness, and humor are pivotal in building an entertaining brand.
• Measurement Beyond Vanity Metrics: Focus on engagement quality through shares, saves, and attentive cost per thousand.
• Authentic Brand Characters: Develop unique mascots or collaborate with niche influencers to embody the brand's entertainment ethos.
• Resilience in Setbacks: Use negative feedback as fuel for further creativity, staying true to brand identity.

Notable Quotes:

• Dan Sulke [02:08]: "Crafting a brand that earns and owns its audience's attention."
• Mike Linton [10:51]: "Do I always want to go down the entertainment route or is that dangerous?"
• Dan Sulke [18:00]: "I would always rather own 10,000 eyeballs than rent 100,000."

This episode serves as a comprehensive guide for marketers seeking to integrate entertainment into their branding strategies, offering both strategic frameworks and practical advice to navigate the complexities of modern marketing.