Dissecting Compensation A Primer on Understanding, Negotiating and Managing Pay | Richard Sanderson

Summary

CMO Confidential – "Dissecting Compensation: A Primer on Understanding, Negotiating and Managing Pay"

Host: Mike Linton
Guest: Richard Sanderson (Spencer Stewart, Practice Leader)
Date: October 8, 2025
Episode Focus: A deep dive into executive compensation—what CMOs and aspiring leaders need to know about pay structures, negotiation techniques, and managing the complexities of high-level compensation.

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Episode Overview

Mike Linton, veteran CMO, sits down with four-time guest and executive recruiter Richard Sanderson to demystify the world of C-suite compensation—salary, bonus, equity, and the negotiation tactics around them. The conversation is a hands-on guide for marketing leaders who want to maximize their earnings and make informed career moves, especially in a world where compensation can be opaque, confusing, and company-specific.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Mystery and Anxiety Around Compensation

• Open Conversation is Rare: "It's a topic that everyone thinks about... but it's not often discussed in the open." — Mike Linton [02:27]
• Lack of Public Information: Richard points out that, among the Fortune 1000, only about 4% list marketing leaders among their top-compensated executives, making benchmarks hard to find.
  • “Of 1,000 proxy statements... we can only find references to marketing leaders at 41 of those.” — Richard Sanderson [04:14]
• Roles are Often Broader Than 'Just Marketing': High CMO pay is frequently tied to additional responsibilities: “These may be the CMO pluses... Revenue chief, Commercial chief, growth.” — Richard Sanderson [04:33]

2. Dissecting the Building Blocks of Compensation

Base Salary

• The Anchor: "Your base salary... is nearly always open to negotiation when you change roles." — Richard Sanderson [05:17]
• Company & Industry Norms Matter: For example, financial services may pay a lower base but higher bonus; salary bands set the limits at many companies [06:43].

Bonus

• Hard to Negotiate: "Bonuses is actually probably the hardest bit to negotiate on because they are set percentages of base salaries." — Richard Sanderson [06:43]
• Ask About History: The most useful question: "What has been the bonus payout history over the last three years?" [07:19]

Equity

• The Real Wealth Builder: Mike states: "Really where you make... a lot of money is in the equity piece." [08:25]
• Complexity and Structure: Equity varies by company type (public, private, nonprofit), geography (US leans into equity more than Europe), and instrument.

3. Primer on Types of Equity [10:36]

• Restricted Stock Units (RSUs): Direct allocation, always worth something unless the stock is worthless. Vesting timelines apply.
• Options: More risky. Only valuable if stock is above the strike price. "If the stock goes down... you're $1 underwater." — Mike Linton [12:08]
• Performance Share Units (PSUs): Equity that depends on company targets — can be worth 0–200% of grant depending on performance.
• Vesting Mechanisms:
  • Time-based: Most common (used to be 3-year cliff, now faster or even monthly vesting is possible in tech). “You are running out the clock... cliff vest at three years.” — Richard Sanderson [14:12]
  • Performance-based: Linked to KPIs like revenue, profitability, earnings per share.
  • Event-based: E.g., IPO, acquisition triggers.

4. How and When to Negotiate Compensation

Timing

• Don’t Lead With Comp — But Don’t Wait Too Long:
  • "If you start asking about compensation too early, you risk coming across as overly focused just on the money... if you leave the conversation too late, you may be wasting time." — Richard Sanderson [18:08]
• Negotiation Theory: Setting the first number is powerful but risky; must be reasonable.

Compensation & Pay Equity Laws

• History Can’t Always Be Asked: Thanks to state-level laws, recruiters often can’t ask for comp history; they must ask for expectations or about “forfeitures” (value you would lose by leaving).
  • "Recruiters... are actually prohibited [from] asking about compensation history. Instead, now... trying to ask about expectations, not about history." — Richard Sanderson [19:05]

Understanding Forfeitures

• Unrealized Bonuses and Equity: Figure out what you’ll give up if you take a new job (unvested grants, deferred bonuses, etc.).
  • "What is it worth? Over what period of time? When is it going to vest? If you leave, are you giving it up?" — Richard Sanderson [21:18]

Best Practices

• Know Your Package: “Know how you get paid. Know how your company rules are in terms of vesting bonus...” — Mike Linton [22:42]
• Get Savvy in the Discussion:
  • “A savvy candidate will actually turn the question around... ‘do they have a range they are thinking about for this job?’” — Mike Linton [23:31]
• Information Asymmetry: Recruiters know more—your job is to close the gap without overreaching.
• Recruiters’ Priority: “Recruiters... are paid by clients, they're not paid by candidates. And so they want to do what's right by the client.” — Richard Sanderson [24:20]

5. The Moment of Highest Leverage [25:03]

• The One Big Ask: After you’re chosen and receive the verbal offer, that’s "your moment of highest leverage... they want you. They want to make it work..." — Richard Sanderson [25:22]
• Be Direct, But Be Reasonable: Make your best request at that point; “There is typically one round of negotiation.” — Richard Sanderson [25:03]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Data Scarcity:
  “Only 4% of companies have a marketing officer as one of their top five compensated employees...” — Richard Sanderson [04:14]
• On Compensation Mix:
  “The more traditionally understood is this sense of either restricted stock, units, options, equity... the mix bit is important...” — Richard Sanderson [09:04]
• On Negotiating Smart:
  “A savvy candidate will actually turn the question around on me... ‘do they have a range?’” — Richard Sanderson [23:31]
• On Leverage:
  “That is your moment as a candidate... your greatest moment of leverage." — Richard Sanderson [25:22]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:27] — The social and business stigma around openly discussing compensation
• [04:14] — Scarcity of public comp data for CMOs
• [06:43] — How companies approach base salaries and bonuses (salary bands, payout histories)
• [08:25] — The centrality of equity in senior compensation
• [10:36] — Types of equity: RSUs, options, performance share units, vesting
• [16:57] — How and when to negotiate: timing, forfeitures, state pay equity laws, ‘the anchor’
• [22:42] — Best practices: understand your own package, smart expectation setting
• [25:22] — “The big ask” and the leverage point in negotiation

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Tone and Style

Conversational and candid, with a teacherly edge. Mike is pragmatic and direct; Richard is thorough and data-driven but never stuffy. They share stories and insider knowledge with good-natured humor, especially about the awkwardness and high stakes of comp negotiation.

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Summary for Non-Listeners

This episode of CMO Confidential is a must-hear for CMOs and marketing leaders navigating the (often confusing and opaque) world of compensation. Mike and Richard break down every element—salary, bonus, equity—and offer expert advice on negotiation, the timing of your asks, understanding what you give up when you leave a job, and how to handle recruiters’ questions with poise. Real-world anecdotes, blunt facts about the lack of CMO comp data, and practical frameworks make this primer vital for anyone looking to maximize offer packages and avoid common pitfalls.

Transcript

[Podcast Announcer]

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[Podcast Host]

The podcast that takes you inside the drama, decisions and choices that go with being the head of marketing. Hosted by five five time CMO Mike Linton.

[Sponsor Representative]

Marketing everything must work seamlessly. If not efficiency, speed and ROI all suffer. That's why Quad is obsessed with making sure your marketing machine runs smoothly with less friction and smarter integration. Better marketing is built on Quad. See how better gets done at www.quad.com/build better.

[Mike Linton]

Welcome marketers, advertisers and those who love them. The Chief Marketing Officer Confidential CMO Confidential is a show that takes you inside the drama, the decisions and the politics that go with being the head of marketing at any company in what is.

[Sponsor Representative]

One of the most scrutinized jobs in the executive suite.

[Mike Linton]

I'm Mike Linton, the former Chief Marketing Officer of Best Buy, ebay, Farmers Insurance and Ancestry.com here today with my guest, Richard Sanderson. Today's topic, dissecting Compensation, a primer on understanding, negotiating and managing pay. Now, Richard began his career at Russell Reynolds and Booze and Company and he moved on to Spencer Stewart where he leads the marketing, communications and sales practice. He leads approximately 25 searches a year for CMOs, CROs, CCOs and Sales Leadership position. Now this is his fourth time on the show in our three year run and we consider him a CMO Confidential OG. Full disclosure, we've known each other for quite a while. Richard recruited me to the Allworth Financial Board. Welcome back, Richard.

[Richard Sanderson]

Thank you, Mike. Fourth time is a pleasure. Does that mean I'm getting a cut of some of the advertising revenue soon?

[Mike Linton]

As soon as we get some, yeah. And then we're going to send you a hypothetical jacket that you can wear conceptually. So hey, let's just start about, you know, why we want to talk about compensation is. It's a topic that everyone thinks about. It consumes a lot of discussion and backroom thinking, but it's not often discussed in the open. And so, you know, it'd be great to break it into sections. The basic elements, negotiating comp and then managing comp. And I thought we'd start with the building blocks, salary, bonus and equity. Give us just a takedown on that.

[Richard Sanderson]

Okay, well, first of all, Mike, you're right. This is a fascinating topic. It's actually a bit of a mysterious topic because certainly the marketing leadership level, the reality is there is very little public information out there. And not only that, as we all know, compensation is, you know, it's a topic which you don't talk about in polite company. So it is a somewhat mysterious area shrouded in mystery. And yet it's all we want to know about. And we all want to talk about it, and we all want to make sure we're doing the best we can. And I'll just tell you how little public information there is out there. I mean, for example, we have looked at the proxy statement. So the largest 1,000 Fortune 1000 companies, that's the largest companies by the revenue or market cap. And as folks may know, if you look at the proxy statement, they are required to list named executive officers, which is typically the five highest paid offices in the company. Of 1,000 proxy statements, Mike, for 2024, we can only find references to marketing leaders at 41 of those.

[Mike Linton]

Wow.

[Richard Sanderson]

So approximately only 4% of companies have a marketing officer as one of their top five compensated employees. And even then, when we do look at those titles, the role is often broader than pure marketing.

[Mike Linton]

Yeah, that's where you're getting your super CMOs, right?

[Richard Sanderson]

Exactly. These may be the CMO pluses. The CMO Plus plus is, call them what you like. Revenue chief, Commercial chief, growth. There are a handful of what I call pure CMOs in there, but the sample size is really small and hence it sort of adds a little bit to the, you know, am I being paid at market? Is it fair? Am I getting the best deal? Can I do better? It all adds to the, to the difficulty of this conversation, especially when you.

[Mike Linton]

Throw in the equity component, which can skew a year or two years versus a true pay plan.

[Richard Sanderson]

Yeah, correct.

[Mike Linton]

Because you got salary bonus and then equity. So, so, so kind of just take us through those three things and then, then we'll jump into equity.

[Richard Sanderson]

So, yeah, so let's start with salary. That's obviously the piece that everyone knows. This is. I would say base salary is the number that when we are negotiating compensation, this is the number that most people focus on. I think your base salary is a bit of a psychological anchor for everyone. I think to some extent it's a reflection of where you are in your career and your recognition. I think to make a move, most people are expecting their base salary to increase. To me, it's the most visible and emotionally resonant part of the package. And the base salary number itself is nearly Always open to negotiation when you change roles. What I would say to people is be aware of either company or industry norms.

[Podcast Host]

We are taking a small break from the show to hear from our sponsor Quad.

[Podcast Announcer]

Marketing is all about high performance. Everything has to fit together and work together exactly right. Or efficiency, speed and ROI all suffer. That's why Quad is obsessed with making sure your marketing machine runs as smoothly as possible. We help you achieve a seamless marketing experience with less friction and smarter integration. Better marketing is built on Quad.

[Podcast Host]

Now back to our discussion with Spencer Stewart practice leader Richard Sanderson around base salaries.

[Richard Sanderson]

For example, financial services firms may offer low base salaries but higher bonuses. And many large companies have essentially what they call salary grades or salary bands. Sort of certain level of seniority. There is just a. There is a. There is a window. It may be small, it may be large, but there is a limit to that puts a range on salary. Bonus bonuses are most commonly expressed as a percent of base salary. There'll often be conditions in there. It's tied to either company performance, business unit performance, individual performance, some blend of all of the above. I find when negotiating offers actually bonuses is actually probably the hardest bit to negotiate on because they are set percentages of base salaries. And that percentage is often reflective of the level or the band or the range of the role that we were going into. I think the key question to ask about bonuses is what has been the bonus payout history over the last three years? So where has the bonus paid relative to target, above target, at target or below target. And I think that reveals whether the targets are realistic. And also a little bit about recent company performance. The final big area. And you hinted at this, Mike, it's equity. This is complex. The devil is in the detail as they say. And there's a lot of detail here. Long term incentives, equity really are a major part particularly of CMO pay. Particularly in public companies. There are lots of different types.

[Mike Linton]

Hey, before we, before we go into different types, I just want to.

[Richard Sanderson]

Get.

[Mike Linton]

Your advice for listeners on this. Why base salary is often the most emotional. Really where you make end up making usually a lot of money is in the equity piece. Maybe sometimes you get a big kicker in the bonus, but it's really equity. And. And when you're younger maybe you're not paying that much attention to equity and you're more fixated on on base salary.

[Sponsor Representative]

Is that true or not?

[Richard Sanderson]

Partially. So where we'll come back to equity in a second because we were talking about equity. Sorry A salary components where you're getting to Mike is a slightly different point, which is compensation mix.

[Mike Linton]

Yeah. Okay.

[Richard Sanderson]

Now this is an important point too. So this is a balance of what's short term. Compensation is basically referring to base and bonus. Long term reflects equity. Now the mix depends on a whole bunch of issues. So let me give you some example. Ownership. If a company is public versus private or private equity, or even nonprofits. Nonprofits, Some private family held companies, for example, simply may not issue equity in the form of a private equity portfolio company. There's all sorts of conditions attached to that. And we may come back to that in a moment. The more traditionally understood is this sense of either restricted stock, units, options, equity. Now the mix bit is important, Mike, because there are some stylistic differences not only around ownership structure, but I'll give you another example. Geographic differences. In my experience, American based companies do lean much more heavily into equity as a part of the compensation mix. Companies based out of Europe, on the other hand, actually do not. And I typically will see if we're negotiating an offer with a client for a, for a European headquartered business, typically equity is actually a smaller part of the total compensation package. So there are all sorts of stylistic, ownership and other structural issues that impact that mix that you're talking about short term versus long term.

[Mike Linton]

So give us the little primer on the various types of equity.

[Richard Sanderson]

Yeah. Okay, so look at it at its highest level. The two most common forms were what were called RSUs, restricted stock units and options. Restricted stock units are essentially straightforward issuance of equity at the market price. You can sit there and work it out. People have their online portals they can go into and it directly correlates with the rise or fall in share price.

[Mike Linton]

And the way an RSU would work just to make sure everyone gets it right. As you get a bunch of stock, it's at $10 a share. You get 100 shares that vest that X time. If it's at 10, $10, that's what you get. If it's at $12, that's what you get. And if it's at $1, that you just get the same number of shares, right?

[Richard Sanderson]

Correct. So they have value essentially no matter where the share price is, as long as the share price is not at zero, some value associated with them. There's a whole talk about vesting cycles. We can come back to that in a second. The next variant is options. So options have something called a strike price. So you'll hear people talk about am I in the money or not? Valuing options is a lot more complicated. There's various mathematical Models, Black Scholes being the most commonly attributed one. It's complex. I would say options are essentially a little bit more risky. If they go up, there's substantial increase in value. If they go below the strike price, there's no value whatsoever. And you're on what's referred as being underwater.

[Mike Linton]

And that's where we go back to our example. If you get the options at $10, you don't make any money unless the stock goes up. And if the stock goes down to $9 versus 10, you're $1 underwater.

[Richard Sanderson]

Yeah, yeah. And more recently, I've seen now a significant part of equity compensation is what's called performance share units. So now these are essentially, in my opinion, a juiced up variant of restricted stock units. They're essentially issued conditionally and it will often be associated with the company meeting various strategic targets, various KPIs or metrics. And performance share units can have accelerators or even decelerators on them based on where the company is meeting those particular targets. The most common example I've seen is that they'll tell you, look, here's, here's the value, and they can increase naught to 200% based on whether we're going to hit some of these key metrics that are defined in the market.

[Mike Linton]

And those metrics examples might be either sales targets or total shareholder return.

[Richard Sanderson]

Correct. It's defined by the board of directors. It's trying to align the entire company and the team around various targets. It can be sales targets, can be profitability targets, can be earning earnings per share targets. I mean, there's almost an infinite array of metrics against which you can set these performance share units.

[Mike Linton]

Yeah. I ran two comp committees and public boards and there is an infinite amount of arguing that could go with this infinite amount of metrics as well.

[Richard Sanderson]

Right. So that's the types of equity. Then there's. Okay, so when can you actually realize them? When can you take them off the table? And so this is obviously vesting. Fundamentally there's two types of vesting. By far the most common is time based vesting. So literally you are running out the clock. The most common form used to be what was referred to as a cliff vest at three years. So in other words, at three years from issuance, you could essentially sell them.

[Mike Linton]

And to make sure everyone knows what you mean by vesting, that is when you get a chance to buy it. Yeah. Well, when you actually get a chance, it becomes yours.

[Richard Sanderson]

Correct. It becomes more than just a number on an online portal that says what it could be worth to a point where you could actually sell it.

[Mike Linton]

Yes.

[Richard Sanderson]

If you want to do it before then. It's all paper. It's all paper money.

[Mike Linton]

Yes.

[Richard Sanderson]

Thank you. It has some value, but you cannot monetize it until you get to the vesting.

[Mike Linton]

And if you leave before you vest, often you're forfeiting everything.

[Richard Sanderson]

Right? Often that's also a negotiation. I'm sure it's probably one of the points we'll come to. I would say we're seeing lots of variance on time based equity. The three year cliff vest was very typical. Certainly I'd say West coast or more technology companies have moved to an accelerated schedule. There's often now a cliff at one year and now in some cases even monthly vesting, 1 24th or 136 for example, or even 148 each month. Now, now that helps with cash flow. But just to say that three year cliff vest, that used to be very typical, even that now has iterated quite substantially over different types of time vesting for any public company. By the way, this is all stated in the proxy statement. What you can't really do is individually negotiate what your vesting cycle is going to be. There is a program that is structure. You cannot negotiate it. You're either in or you're out. And so I don't want people thinking they can start individually negotiating components like that. It's not. I think we're simply identifying that there are many different types of equity vesting, cycles of equity and how they exist and valuation models as well.

[Mike Linton]

And then, so there's time and then there's performance, which performance equity or performance RSUs, which is. Yeah, we kind of talked about them.

[Richard Sanderson]

And there's one more. There can be events based vesting. I mean this can be linked for example to an ipo, a sale of a company. So if a company comes in and buys your company, I mean they're essentially buying up all the equity on the spot. So that's an example of more an event based trigger as opposed to a time based trigger.

[Mike Linton]

So, so we're going to talk about like negotiating now because you got to figure out this is super complicated when you really get, particularly when you get into the equity portion. We just talked about how do you recommend candidates think through comp. You know, you know, usually even before they're. They're looking at gigs and how they get paid. But give us advice for how to think about this.

[Richard Sanderson]

So I think there's at least three or four subtopics here, Mike. I'll just Lay them on the table and you can decide which ones you want to go through here. I think first of all, and I'm now really in the mode, sort of in the executive recruiter mode, which is what I'm in, which is how and when do you negotiate compensation? And I'm specifically in the situation of when you may be considering changing roles or changing companies. So topic number one to discuss would be when is the right time to discuss compensation? Topic number two that I encourage people to be aware of is what are some of the new compensation and pay equity laws that may frame that? Conversation number three is, you know, how do you manage the expectation setting elements of compensation negotiations? And then what is the right style or posture to take during a negotiation? So there's lots of different things. And Mike, I'm very happy to go through these at a high level one by one.

[Mike Linton]

Yeah, let's, let's just touch on the, on the first one, because also in that is know what you're getting paid now, don't like, you know, I've had people leave like two months ahead of getting massive grants because they weren't paying attention.

[Richard Sanderson]

Right. So first of all, when to discuss compensation with a recruiter or a company. So when in the process, I think timing is delicate. I think if you start asking about compensation too early, you risk coming across as overly focused just on the money side as opposed to the challenge or the opportunity. On the other hand, if you leave the conversation too late, you may be wasting time if your expectations don't align with where the company or the role wants to pay.

[Mike Linton]

Right.

[Richard Sanderson]

You know, there is an element of negotiation theory that says, look, the first person to put a number out there is essentially setting the anchor right negotiation. I do think there is some, some truth to that. But that anchor that you throw out also has to be granted in some sort of reality. You can't just throw out, I think silly numbers because I think you lose.

[Mike Linton]

Your, your expectations unless you are Elon Musk, apparently.

[Richard Sanderson]

So I think we're looking at a trillion dollars, I heard.

[Mike Linton]

Yeah, I think so.

[Richard Sanderson]

And then, you know, I think also be ready with what is the right response. And we'll come to this in a second. Because increasingly now recruiters and their representatives are essentially trained to ask about expectations, not about compensation history. And the reason for that, Mike, is a number of compensation and pay equity laws have passed on a state level, not a federal level, to be clear, on a state level over the last 10 years. California, New York City, Oregon, Delaware, Massachusetts, Illinois, the state of Washington and others, I mean, put bluntly, it's the blue coastal states is where a lot of this is happening, where now recruiters are actually prohibited asking about compensation history. Instead, now, and certainly everyone at Spencer Stewart is trying to ask about expectations, not about history. To be clear, candidates and you can still volunteer your history, it's not required, but we cannot directly ask it. Now, here's my honest experience of handling this, Mike. When I ask the compensation expectations question, most people do not know how to answer that question for exactly the reason we say that I said a number too high or too low, I'm going to look stupid or I'm leaving something on the table, I'm going to come across as greedy. I'm not going. 80 to 90% of people do not know how to answer the expectations question and they end up reverting to, well, look, here's where I am because that's the one number they know. So inadvertently, candidates may choose to share history. But just be aware, recruiters in many jurisdictions cannot and should not and will not directly ask you about your compensation history. What they can do and should ask you about is what's referred to as forfeitures. So if you were to walk away, what are you leaving on the table? This was your point. I mean, are you leaving at the right time? When is something vesting? What do we need to be aware of? What short term annual bonus could you be leaving on the table?

[Mike Linton]

Right, if I'm three months ahead of bonus, I'm leaving a lot bonus, maybe on the table.

[Richard Sanderson]

Particularly acute for searches being run this time of year. So late Q3 and Q4, most companies run on a fiscal year that aligns to the calendar year. Bonuses are paid tips, typically January through coming to the final quarter. Now you are essentially, if you leave in Q4, you are essentially giving up most of your last year's accrued bonus. How is that going to be taken care of or accounted for? That's an example of a forfeiture. The all the equity we spoke about, what is it worth? Over what period of time? When is it going to vest? If you leave, are you giving it up? That is a forfeiture. A recruiter can, could and should ask you about that and you should be ready to address and answer that question. This is a broader point around what these compensation laws are and what you need to be ready for this expectations thing. As I said, look, that is the topic that I think most people struggle with. What I would say is, look, do a little bit of research, use recruiters Use your peer networks, maybe even use some proxy statements where relevant. Although as I said at the beginning, 4% of companies even have a marketing leader on their proxy statement. But be thoughtful, put an aspirational. Anything that's too high or too low can frankly send the wrong signal.

[Mike Linton]

Beneath all this, I'm hearing know how you get paid. Know how your company rules are in terms of vesting bonus because the bonus may get paid at the end of the year, but you also may have to be in seat in February 15 or March 15 to get it.

[Richard Sanderson]

That is.

[Mike Linton]

So you really want to know the rules and you don't want to be fumbling around with it. And then, you know, you were, you were telling us how to manage the question about what are your expectations? Are there any other best practices in there?

[Richard Sanderson]

Well, here's where I would go with the expectations question. I get all sorts of responses to this. I mean part of it is, you know, a savvy candidate will actually turn the question around on me.

[Mike Linton]

Right.

[Richard Sanderson]

I mean it's not, you know, and in most cases I'm not flying blind. I mean most recruiters are going into a role in a search with some knowledge, roughly speaking, may not be gospel truth, but directionally where the role is. Again, a recruiter doesn't want to tip their hand too much or give too much away. So it's a really delicate dance. But I find the more savvy, sophisticated candidates will actually push it back and put me in a slightly and do.

[Mike Linton]

A thing like hey Richard, do they have a range they are thinking about for this job?

[Richard Sanderson]

Precisely. So I would actually think about pushing back on that. It's not so much pushing back but actually responding to a question with a question, almost making it rhetorical and seeing, you know, what information that may reveal. I mean at the end of the day, Mike, this is all about information asymmetry.

[Mike Linton]

Yes.

[Richard Sanderson]

The recruiter has more information than you do about compensation's role and they're trying to. This is not the right. I don't want to say that they're trying to exploit that. That is not the case. But they are trying to get to a solution that works for their client. Remember recruiters, executive search consultants are paid by clients, they're not paid by candidates. And so they want to do what's right by the, by the, by the client. Now what I will say to my clients is you are not only looking to recruit a candidate, you're looking to retain a candidate as well over the long term. So being, you know, penny wise but pound Foolish on compensation negotiation often can backfire.

[Mike Linton]

So you had your four things. Did we get through all four here?

[Richard Sanderson]

I'll give you one other which I think is really interesting, which is once you get into a negotiation. So how does the negotiation actually work? My general feeling and experience is there is. There's typically one round of negotiation, so.

[Mike Linton]

You get one big ask after you get correct.

[Richard Sanderson]

In other words, let's say you're the chosen candidate. You've gone through all the interviews, probably the referencing has been done, all the background checks have been done, the offer is forthcoming. There may have been some expectation setting, or there may have not before you received the offer, but now you get the offer. In most cases, the offer is expressed verbally first, right. And then you know, can you accept this offer? Yes or no? In my experience, that is your moment as a candidate. That is your moment of highest leverage. They've made it clear they want you. They've probably maybe even switched off most of the other candidates. So, you know, the eggs are all in the basket here. They want you. They want to make it work. You haven't committed. This is your greatest moment of leverage. That said, you know, it is about doing the right thing. In my experience, there is. This is your opportunity now to respond to this and very clearly say, look, based on this, this is what I think I need to make it work.

[Podcast Host]

This is the end of part one of our discussion with Richard Sanderson. Please join us next week for part two of our discussion.

[Sponsor Representative]

In marketing, everything must work seamlessly. If not efficiency, speed and ROI all suffer. That's why Quad is obsessed with making sure your marketing machine runs smoothly with less friction and smarter integration. Better marketing is built on Quad. See how better gets done at www.quad.com buildbetter.