Mike Linton (3:15)

And can I just interrupt and say when does experiential marketing stop and other marketing start? Like if, if I'm looking at like any advertisements or search or anything else, there's the line between the two and then we can go right back to, to what it is.

Gabrielle Kessler (3:33)

But yeah, so, so the, it's really a, it's really a framework or a way of thinking. So one can approach all of your, your, your channel mix or your marketing mix from an experiential perspective. So to answer your question, it doesn't really stop. There are for example, I think you had recently the Warby Parker guys on that case study, right? Just the act or including the at home try on and then later the virtual try on. That's experiential marketing. So really when best used you are putting this lens through everything that you're doing. But I think most of our conversations are going to be about tactics that are so on the nose in terms of immersive and brand building experiences that that's really what most CMOs or marketers are going to be categorizing as experiential marketing. Whether or not they are taking this wide approach to all of the other channels that they have.

Mike Linton (4:41)

I love that used on the nose. In reference to the Warby Parker case as a way to summarize this, the consumer has to be involved in it in some way versus it coming to the consumer. I mean there's a whole construct. But when I get to the experience thing, I have to participate, right?

Gabrielle Kessler (4:58)

Yes, it needs to be active versus passive. So it would be very difficult to have a broadcast media campaign that is experiential because the nature of that is, is passive. However, if you recall the bouncing QR code at the super bowl like that, that could be considered looking at broadcast media experientially.

Mike Linton (5:21)

Ah, it goes because I got to put up my phone to go record that. So okay, when, when you look at this and you guys have the catbird seat on it, how much marketing goes in to experiential versus the other part? I know it's, you're going to say it's growing because it surely. But how much is it in there? Like what percent of marketing budgets are in play here?

Gabrielle Kessler (5:44)

Well, I think it really depends because experiential marketing for the most part is going to be used for brand building, particularly for B2C marketing tactics. It can be used for B2B as well. That gets more into that trade show sampling direct to consumer sort of thing. And so the mix is a little bit different there. I don't have an exact figure because I think that different companies call experiential marketing or bucket experiential marketing into different areas. But what I can tell you is that Adweek just published an article on the fastest growing job titles within brands in 2024. And senior event manager, which oftentimes is who is in charge of experiential tactics, was up, I believe, over 90% from 23 to 24. So brands are investing in this role and this area.

Mike Linton (6:49)

And we also know that as AI takes more search off the table, you got to find another way to do it. So one of our other shows, someone was basically talking about, you're going to care a lot about the top of the funnel and the experiential part of the funnel, because a lot of the middle of the funnel might be eliminated.

Gabrielle Kessler (7:07)

Yes. And, and, but, but I do want to say that experiential marketers are actually really excited about more data and using that data smarter. Because one of the, one of the best ways to create a really impactful experience is to personalize it to the people who are there. So the more connection we have from data and customer information to what that experience is, the more special it is. The more brand love you build, the more eventual action and hopefully purchase for whatever that is you get.

Mike Linton (7:41)

So, so let's talk about how this fits with all the other marketing tools. And if you can, you have any example you can bring in, that'd be great. Like, so you obviously are, you get the consumer now you can have this experience with them. How do you tie this all up in your marketing program? And then how do you measure it? That's a huge question. So you can take it any way you want.

Gabrielle Kessler (8:03)

Yeah, no problem. So I think that what I see is that a lot of marketers, because it feels very specialized, because it feels very creatively driven, break out a little bit on how to plan these things. And I always say, let's go back to basics. So I'm glad you set this conversation up about, you know, going to the basics of experiential marketing. Really, we have to approach this in the same way that we would any other channel. So we need to, one, understand who our audience is, really, really know what their passions are, what are their motivations, and then figuring out what kind of experiences will resonate with them in that emotional way. Um, and then before, before you even decide if experiential marketing is for you in one of these, like, tried and true Tactics that we're talking about, not in the macro sense. You have to understand what your objectives are. So are you trying to drive brand awareness? Is this about lead generation? Is this about product trial? Is this really about social engagement? Understanding what you as a brand are trying to do first and foremost is going to dictate the type of experience and where it shows up, as opposed to the tail wagging the dog, which is unfortunately, because it's a very buzzy topic, really what we see a lot of the time. Do you remember back in the day before social was just part of everybody's.

Mike Linton (9:35)

Sadly, I do, yeah.

Gabrielle Kessler (9:38)

Same. And how we used to have people, brands call us up and be like, we need a Facebook, but we don't know why, we don't know how, but we need a Facebook. Can you help us make a Facebook? We're kind of in that stage with experiential marketing right now where they're like, I need to do. I said Game of Thrones was on the Empire State Building and I need to throw a dragon somewhere. And we're like, okay, let's step back and say what are we really trying to do here? And then create the tactic that's going to be most effective for that.

Mike Linton (10:04)

So the Game of Thrones on the Empire State Building with the dragon, that was pretty cool. What other brands have done stuff like that that you would call out and then, you know, I get the measuring this. Some of these are harder to measure than others. What, what do you give us some examples and then what recommend people do when they're trying to say this worked or it didn't work?

Gabrielle Kessler (10:25)

So first I really have to bang the drum of that. Experiential tactics need to be in an integrated marketing approach. So just having a standalone stunt or activation doesn't really work. It needs to be combined with all of the marketing efforts, digital, social, pr. And so, you know, that Game of Thrones example I like when I'm not shamelessly plugging our own work, which I will do in a second, is a really great example because yes, everybody talks about the dragon that's on the Empire State Building, but they had multimillion dollar buys, you know, on social, on digital, they took over two stadiums they had broadcast that was running. So they had massive PR PR experiences built just for PR to then talk about the experience that they built.

Mike Linton (11:22)

Discover the future of AI powered digital experiences. Adobe Summit is live in Las Vegas, March 17th through the 20th. If you can't make it to the conference in person, join Summit online free from anywhere Access inspirational talks from global brand leaders like Coca Cola, Unilever, Marriott and more in live streamed insightful keynotes and Adobe Sneaks co hosted by comedian Ken Jeung. Select from over 30 expert led sessions. Register for free at summit.adobe.com/cmo confidential.

Gabrielle Kessler (12:02)

So that's what I mean by, by an integrated approach. So when it comes to measurement, if you are using all of those channels, you can use the traditional measurement measures for those channels. But then what we sort of talk about an elevated or a modernized PR measurement. It used to be, it's very much about earned right, earned conversation sentiment. It used to be that, you know, PR would just be like here's the potential number of impressions that we hit with all of this coverage and they threw one big inaccurate number. We now have the ability to really drill down on that and say okay, what impact did you make on the people who witnessed this, were engaged in this tactic as opposed to just how many people saw it. So again what that impact is is going to be really unique to the brand. Is it sentimental, is it loyalty? You know, things of that nature. But really we're trying to get to that level of metric alongside with just apparently how many people saw this.

Mike Linton (13:09)

Right. Okay, that's good. And is this often an amplifier versus the prime part of the marketing plan? Is that a way to look at it?

Gabrielle Kessler (13:17)

Yes, I would, I would say so absolutely. Particularly if, if the brand is one has a, has a demo or a market segment that really requires this level of emotional engagement. So we're talking about young millennial Gen Z, Gen Alpha audiences who are ad blind. They really are, you know, they need to feel and experience something in order to, to care. And several, a bunch of studies have come out about this. One of the one quote that I'm remembering says that particularly Gen Z wants to live in the world of the brands that they love. So if you're trying to reach those kind those audiences, this is a really wonderful additive tool to your standard mix in order to make it a lasting impact with them.

Mike Linton (14:12)

So let's, let's flip over to. We got a lot of marketers obviously listening to show what type of brands are ideal for experiential marketing and which aren't so wired for it.

Gabrielle Kessler (14:29)

So I think that like I was just saying, any brand that is trying to hit a Gen Z or younger demo really needs to consider this tactic even if it's at a small scale because it is a mandatory for, for, for those, the only way to reach.

Mike Linton (14:47)

A lot of these. What I hear you saying is I can't reach them hardly any other way. So I this is my best path to get them.

Gabrielle Kessler (14:55)

Yes. And and I would say this goes hand in hand with influencer marketing and create create, well what we now call creator marketing. Influencers get very offended if you call them influencers.

Mike Linton (15:05)

Now never say that to another.

Gabrielle Kessler (15:08)

Never say that to their face. Yes. So it really goes hand in hand because we also have hit peak creator marketing where now even younger generations are blind to a lot of the sponsored content and creator content that that is being made. So a lot of times, particularly if you are a smaller brand and budget is a concern, experiential does double duty. It gives your creators a place and a way to make something that's unique and it also gives your consumers and audience a way to interact. And if done right, your physical experience can still be interacted with by people at home. And that's, that's the sweet spot for, for making the most out of one tactic.

Mike Linton (15:59)

This show is brought to you by Adobe. Discover the future of AI powered digital experiences. Adobe Summit returns to Las Vegas March 17th through the 20th. There's still time to register for the in person conference and experience it firsthand. But if you can't make it to Vegas, join Summit online to access free live streamed events and select sessions from anywhere. Be inspired by keynotes from iconic brand leaders like Coca Cola, Unilever, Marriott, JPMorgan Chase and more. Explore how leveraging AI can help you deliver exceptional customer experiences, drive efficiency and prove measurable impact. Get an exclusive first look at never before seen technology during the popular Adobe Sneaks showcase co hosted by actor and comedian Ken Jeong and learn from over 30 expert led on demand sessions. Grow your business and transform your marketing with insights only available at Summit. Visit summit.adobe.com/CMO Confidential to register for free. Hey, so we talked about Game of Thrones and I also know Handmaid's Tale had a bunch of takeovers. You know that, that really got a lot of, a lot of things working for them a while ago. Any good live examples of small companies that have used experiential marketing to break through?

Gabrielle Kessler (17:25)

Yeah, so one example we like to quote all the time is I do you know Haley Bieber? She is Justin Bieber's wife and I do know that. Okay, she's a, she's, she's a celebrity. But I mean her company. Well maybe now it is but when they launched this wasn't huge. So she wrote is a lip gloss, a lip gloss line. Nothing massive special. It's Like a single product or at the time a single product brand and they created a photo booth. Literally all it was just a photo booth that went from place to place. But because they tapped into an element of culture where this sounds silly to say but photo booths are having a moment creating content. Creating content that we always learned something.

Mike Linton (18:20)

On this show from my guys. Now, now I realize photo booths are in. I'm going to call my producer and get one installed.

Gabrielle Kessler (18:28)

There you go for, I mean if you're, if you're trying to hit a hit the 18 to 18 to 24 year old female population that's get yourself a photo booth. But, but you know, it was so, so perfect for what her demo was looking for that for pretty minimal investment and popping off at different places. And yes the fact that she's a celebrity name helps but she had nothing to do do with the activation itself other than it was her company massively took off and kind of flooded the feed in terms of social content that came out of this. And so they got more out of that physical execution than they could have gotten out of any buy to be. To be frank.

Mike Linton (19:14)

So let's look at the flip side because a lot of times you're sitting in a marketing seat and someone consensus says look at this photo booth lip gloss thing. Why can't we do that? Let's do something like that. And then the marketer runs off and does something like that. How do you know if it's going to be even a. If it might be a bad idea for you when you're experiential is likely to fail?

Gabrielle Kessler (19:42)

Well, first I would say if you are starting with tactic and not with intention and an objective, you're already off on the wrong butt. If, if you, if you are going to ask your staff or your agency or whatever to reverse engineer justification into a single a tactic just because you like the tactic. It's probably one, it's probably jumped the shark already. Like the number of conversations I've had about like we need to make a Barbie moment. We need to, you know that like.

Mike Linton (20:13)

I could just go to the store and get a Barbie moment for my brand.

Gabrielle Kessler (20:16)

Right, right, right. So, so you, I would say please take pause and you know, ask yourself am I coming at this from the right way? If that's where you're starting. But, but other questions are, you know, what are basics? What are the specific marketing objectives? Who is the target audience? Does that tactic fit with who your target audience is and will it resonate with them? What's your budget and what kind of ROI are you expecting these tactics like you said, can our best use? Well, people fall in love with the.

Mike Linton (20:53)

Tactic and then they want you to do it. But a lot of times your brand shouldn't even do it and the tactic doesn't fit the strategy, which is a huge mistake. But I, we see that happen a lot. What other mistakes do marketers make in this space?

Gabrielle Kessler (21:12)

Unrealistic expectations of what you can get out of, out of this tactic. So if you want to create an emotional connection with your audience and you're using experiential to do that, expecting them to buy your product in that moment is not really understanding the normal pace of how a consumer, you know, relation to a brand and life cycle kind of works. If really you are trying to create, there are a few rare exceptions like if you're in apparel and you're creating a limited edition something and you have an event for that. Like yes, it's perfectly valid to say at the end of this we should be sold out of the limited run that we did great. But generally if you know, if you're selling lawnmowers and you want to have an event to make, I'm just going to call out John Deere and I'll just say that this is a real John Deere thing. But if you want to make America love John Deere and you create an experience for that, to expect that they're going to go out and buy a lawnmower or if you're an auto brand to expect that people are walking out beyond the hand raiser phase into, beyond consideration into purchase. That's unrealistic and probably not the right tactic for you. You probably need to go lower funnel if you're looking for that kind of conversion.

Mike Linton (22:33)

So you see brands do a lot of this hall of fame worst practices all the time by just trying to shortcut everything with one event actually probably a lot. Don't you?

Gabrielle Kessler (22:45)

I will say I think that there's that call from the top that says our CMO saw this, we need to do this does happen frequently. I would say that most of the time people are actually really good though or brands are really good. When we present alternate ideas that stick to the or alternate tactics that stick to the same kernel of what they want to do. So we can demonstrate that you can actually move the needle more and get there better through a social campaign. That sure might have one or two IRL elements to help with that usually. Look, the argument for digital isn't hard to make, right? The return, the return on money invested is a is a lot better being truthful.

Mike Linton (23:32)

So well you could see it too. It's right there, right?

Gabrielle Kessler (23:35)

So, so we are really well positioned because we do it all. We're not a production company or we don't just do events or things of that nature. So like we actually can go and come back and say we love your idea. Here's a far more efficient way to do this and that oftentimes is agreeable and then it opens the door for once we have that trust in There they go. Okay, now that we've seen this, how do we layer that experiential piece back on top of it? And we're like, ah, okay, now we're cooking with gas. Let's see what we can do.

Mike Linton (24:08)

Discover the future of AI Powered Digital Experiences Adobe Summit is live in Las Vegas March 17th through the 20th. If you can't make it to the conference in person, join Summit online free from anywhere. Access inspirational talks from global brand leaders like Coca Cola, Unilever, Marriott and more in live streamed insightful keynotes and Adobe Sneaks co hosted by comedian Ken Jeong. Select from over 30 expert led sessions. Register for free at summit.adobe.com/cmo confidential. And this should be a lesson for all the marketers out there too. Don't look around and grab a tactic and jam it into your strategic plan unless it really fits. And don't jump the shark on the whole thing. So you, you talked earlier about AI and you know that this is great for experiential marketers because it allows you to more personalized stuff and any other big impact for AI in your business that you see.

Gabrielle Kessler (25:14)

Oh yes. So AI is incredibly exciting on the creative technology front. So much of what helps us get that earned value in experiential, especially some of the bigger programs, are the novelty of the technology that we're using in the experience or how to get to the experience. So we're onto the shameless plug time first. For example, we did a program last year with our client Adidas for the super bowl. And Adidas did not spend a single dollar in traditional media for the Super Bowl. But instead we used technology to help us create the first of its kind out of home placement on the sphere in Las Vegas that actually utilized Patrick Mahomes baby Patrick Mahomes, teenage Patrick Mahomes, adult Patrick Mahomes into this animation that was also the first anamorphic anamorphic effect that ever happened on the on the sphere itself. And it got more buzz than any of the paid placements in that category. So yes, it's incredibly helpful in having us make groundbreaking work in Breakneck Speed that gets talked about.

Mike Linton (26:41)

So we've done over a hundred shows. You are the first person to use the word anamorphic. So I think that's awesome. You know, pre show we were talking a little about some examples and you said you had one regard for Elon Musk and so I must ask this question.

Gabrielle Kessler (26:59)

Yeah, so. So full disclosure, you do ask in the pre interview to talk about some examples of things that don't work. And I hate, I want to work with every brand so I would hate to throw the rest. I have had the benefit of. I am familiar with Elon's companies and events from the past, so I feel comfortable talking about this. I will say that the biggest sort of like dope slap moment for me experientially in 2024 was the, the his Tesla robot launch. Yeah. So one, just as a, as some, a producer. Right. I looked at, I don't know if you saw footage of this, but the, the robots themselves, it was all faked. Right. The robots were doing things that they don't actually, that the product doesn't actually do and the, the attention to detail and how that was executed was laughable. So they essentially used them as puppets and they had, I don't know, some out of work actors I guess with a camera and a microphone just ad libbing in the back and the interactions were just not how you'd want to represent your, your brand. So like I've done a lot of work in animatronics and puppetry. Elon, next time call me, call me back. I'll call my buddies at the Henson creature shop and we'll do this Right. But essentially they should could have just waved a flag and said that this product doesn't do what we say it does and that that's, that's a failure because that then becomes the messaging that people are taking out of this event as opposed to oh my God, what an incredible novel product. This company is on the cutting edge of technology.

Mike Linton (28:48)

So I think we're almost at time. Which brings to our traditional last question. It's a two parter. You have to pick one or both. The first is funniest story you can tell on the air and or practical advice for our listeners we haven't discussed yet. Your pick or both.

Gabrielle Kessler (29:08)

Funniest story I can tell on the air. Well, okay, this one's sort of topical because he's been in the news lately. But several years ago I got to Work with the fabulous people at fox on Deadpool 2's home entertainment release, which perfectly coincided with Comic Con at the time. Comic Con is like one of those super Bowls for experience.

Mike Linton (29:35)

Oh yeah, Sadly, I've been there. I've been.

Gabrielle Kessler (29:39)

You're still trying to get the smell off you, right?

Mike Linton (29:41)

Yes.

Gabrielle Kessler (29:43)

So that gear, it was a, it was a great pitch experience where we went in with several really off the wall ideas and it was the wackiest one that we pitched in the room. And it was like almost like a Hollywood scene where everybody stopped and they went and whispered to each other and said, you know, I teed it up. I was like, you're never going to buy this, but I'm in the room with you so I have to share it with you. And then they were like, that one, that's the one that we want. It was a truly bizarre and denominator, like a demonic sort of execution. But the best part was we had toilet seat covers with Ryan Reynolds face on them where you literally would, you know, do your business on his face. And people were stealing those by the handful from the convention center and, and selling them on eBay for $350 a piece. So yeah, and he came up to, you know, me and my team and said, thank you. You've made all of my really disturbing dreams come true. And that was, that was a really special moment considering how bizarre everything that we did was.

Mike Linton (31:04)

Okay, well that is also the first, you know, toilet story ever sold on here for CMO Confidential. So you're really knocking it out of the park here.

Gabrielle Kessler (31:13)

Great.

Mike Linton (31:14)

Any practical advice or with that, you know, it's hard really to top that story. So.

Gabrielle Kessler (31:21)

Yeah, I think I don't get scared. Don't get scared by experiential marketing. It's rooted in the same things that your audience knows how to do. It just has a different output. And when you, you should be consulting experts if you want to do this. But make sure that your experts also don't have a vested interest in just doing one tactic, that your experts are really thinking about your business objectives on the whole and can help you navigate through that, through that process to get to what's going to best serve you.

Mike Linton (32:00)

Thank you. A great way to end the show. Thank you, Gabriel. And thanks to everyone for listening to CMO Confidential. Look for more of our shows on Spotify, Apple, YouTube and the I Hear Everything network, which includes It's a Bird, It's a Plane. Holy shit, it's AI parts one and two. Is your next best customer and AI bot. The top five mistakes seen CEOs and boards make when hiring a CMO and synthetic influencers. Should brands do it themselves? Hey, all you marketers, stay safe out there. This is Mike Linton signing off for CMO competition.