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Jason Radisson | New CMOs at the Inflection Point – Tips for the Hard Situations | CMO Confidential
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- [00:00]
Mike Linton
The CMO Confidential Podcast is a proud.
- [00:03]
Jason Radisson
Member of the I Hear Everything Podcast network.
- [00:06]
Mike Linton
Looking to launch or scale your podcast.
- [00:09]
Jason Radisson
I Hear Everything delivers podcast production, growth.
- [00:12]
Mike Linton
And monetization solutions that transform your words into profit.
- [00:17]
Jason Radisson
Ready to give your brand a voice then visit iheareverything.com welcome to CMO Confidential, the podcast that takes you inside the drama, decisions and choices that go with being the head of marketing. Hosted by five time CMO Mike Linton.
- [00:36]
Mike Linton
Welcome marketers, advertisers and those who love them to Chief Marketing Officer, Confidential. CMO Confidential is a program that takes you inside the drama, the decisions and the politics that go with being the head of marketing at any company in what is one of the most scrutinized jobs in the executive suite. I'm Mike Linton, the former Chief Marketing Officer of Best Buy, ebay, Farmers Insurance and Ancestry.com here today with my guest, Jason Radisson. Today's topic, new CMOS at the inflection point, Tips for the hard situations. Now, Jason is the founder and CEO of movo, the mobile productivity platform for frontline teams. I almost got that out without. Without messing up. Before starting movo, Jason held executive positions for a number of companies, including Uber, Caesars, Rappi, and Aveira. He was also a consultant at McKinsey and Accenture and refers to himself as a fixer, which we will talk about later. Full disclosure, our pass crossed at ebay. Welcome, Jason.
- [01:42]
Jason Radisson
Mike, thanks for having me on the show.
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Mike Linton
Of course. Now, Jason, you are particularly focused and we're super interested in talking about what you called inflection points. Tell us what you mean by inflection points and how it pertains to companies.
- [01:59]
Jason Radisson
Yeah. So strictly speaking, inflection points are things like a company facing technological obsolescence, a change of control, maybe it's a turnaround, something's broken in operations, and the company's really struggling to execute any of these kinds of turning points in the company's trajectory and history. And oftentimes where CMOs or people who are doing roles like CMOs, things like Chief Digital Officers, are, are brought in with great expectations about fixing everything.
- [02:37]
Mike Linton
Yeah, so. So these inflection points always. Almost always, you know, we're going to talk about it in a minute, but it almost always means something's gone sideways and then you're going to throw usually a new CMO into that mix. Let's talk about the difference in that mix of being a new CMO or an established CMO already, where the company says, gosh, Jason, we have to pivot everything let's start talking about how you even manage the expectations the company gives you at the inflection point. And let me just show a little bit. The company will say, oh my gosh, we're going to pivot completely, we got to do this, or this is a problem or we're putting in this new product line. How do you as a CMO even assess the expectations the company is giving you in that? And then what do you do about reframing them?
- [03:30]
Jason Radisson
I think you've got a fact insanity. Check the vision and whatever those top sort of midterm expectations are, what you're supposed to accomplish in the first couple of quarters, what you're supposed to accomplish in the first couple of years. Sandy, check those. I think it's very important to do the math and actually understand that the levers exist and how the levers relate to that overall business case. Is the case even valid? If that's a halfway decent and valid case, then you have to do a gap analysis and you got to compare what's the team I have, what's the technology I have, what's the product I have, what's the budget I have, and where we're supposed to go and build based on that gap analysis. The plan and, and the plan comes down to the things I just mentioned and in the right quantities, in the right order to get you where you need to go. That's a lot of the first step.
- [04:27]
Mike Linton
So I agree with you in the math, but that's a lot of math. Often in a really short period of time where the company's running out and sometimes where the math may not be available. How do you get the math and get it enough at speed? And then we'll talk about a follow up question and what if the math says the vision is wrong? So there's a whole bunch of questions in here. You can unwrap them in order, but the first is how do you get the math at speed if it's not always available?
- [04:57]
Jason Radisson
Yeah, I think math at speed, some of it will be available, some of the data will be available. There are a lot of just public sources. Hopefully you're well versed or you've got access to people who are well versed at sort of getting things like, you know, traffic data, product data within the company, those kinds of things to give a couple of kind of public examples.
- [05:20]
Mike Linton
Oh yeah, knock yourself out.
- [05:23]
Jason Radisson
You've got to be an expert at getting the data together that you need to validate. So if it is financial, then having the relationship building a quick relationship with a cfo or maybe it's a head of FP and a whoever it is that you need to get at the data that you need. What I like to do and what I think is most effective in these early days of planning is also having just, it's part of your onboarding, networking. Anyway, you're going to have lunch with people, you have specific questions. You can prepare for those lunches essentially with interview guides. You don't have to lay an interview guide on them, but it's an old consulting trick to sort of go into the lunch with the three or four bits of data that you need and get a commitment. If you can't get the data in the lunch or in that first coffee meeting with that new colleague, get the commitment to get that data together. And it's, I think also just, it's an iterative planning process. So, you know, the same kinds of things apply that apply in management consulting. Like, you kind of need to have the first week hypothesis. Here's what I think the plan is. Here's where I think it works. Here is where I think there are weaknesses. As you get into the second week and data starts to flow from the people that you've been meeting, as you kind of get ramped up in the company, you've already got a pretty robust data set and you should be well on your way to figuring out whether or not the company has overall a decent strategic plan. I think it's incumbent on every C suite executive to validate the company's plan as you onboard, by the way.
- [06:51]
Mike Linton
Look, I agree with that. I agree with that. What if. And then I want to finish this with if you can go back in your career. Give us an example. If you start doing the math and the early math says, oh my gosh, this vision is a train wreck. We're going to be like the, you know, running off the cliff with this, with this vision. But the company and the board are already way down the road on this and you're sitting there as the cmo. What, what do you, what do you do then?
- [07:23]
Jason Radisson
Yeah, you specifically have to renegotiate at that point. And you don't need to do it exactly at the point that you've sort of have the aha moment that, you know, our overall strategic plan has a bunch of weaknesses that I feel uncomfortable with, but at least the ones that pertain to what you are going to do in your marketing role with your revenue responsibilities. You need to make sure that you're in a position to really be able to Debunk them. The next step, as I said, is go back to the gap analysis. Okay. Given what I have, because you're only going to have so many, so many, so much political capital to be able to sort of renegotiate and reset expectations. I strongly recommend doing it after you have the gap analysis. So one thing, I mean you can't.
- [08:12]
Mike Linton
Just throw up your hands, go, oh my God, you say, and then they're never going to think about it. I feel.
- [08:18]
Jason Radisson
Exactly.
- [08:19]
Mike Linton
Feel it's bad. You got to have math. But can you give us an example? You don't even have to name the company, but if you want to, it's okay. Where you've gone in and looked at the math and said, oh my gosh, the strategy, this isn't going to work very well for anybody.
- [08:38]
Jason Radisson
Yeah, ride sharing and delivery. A lot of the businesses that I've worked in recently, as in the last 10 years or so, what is often because those, those companies do something called vector based planning. So they don't, you know, strictly have a growth sort of target that's a little bit next year is going to be a little bit better than this year. They say here is a vector of what a good region, a good country looks like in week 10 of being up and running, in week 100 being up and running and so on.
- [09:15]
Mike Linton
So a lot of micro math for a geography or a product line.
- [09:22]
Jason Radisson
It's a growth curve and I think there's a lot growth is a position in place of CMO chief Growth Officer. This kind of gets thrown around a lot in unicorn hypergrowth mode. The vector of how quickly you're going to grow the company is the key vector. And that vector, the way it's done, it's usually based. In fact, there was another country that did it this well. So part of the plan evaluation in that example is pretty easy. You look at that vector and you go what made that market is actually known. Those were facts from a year ago and that team did it. Do those facts exist in our world? And you can pretty quickly validate sort of the inputs to that and figure out whether or not the growth objectives of the company make sense or not. So that is just a concrete example from tech that, you know.
- [10:22]
Mike Linton
But let me keep, because I think this was probably a great illustrative point for what we're talking about, which is if I'm doing vector based planning and I think all countries are equal, I say look, we grew, we grew, you know, at, at a hundred percent rate, year over year in England and we grew 100 rate year over year in Canada. Therefore, we should go 100% year over year in Bulgaria or, you know, Moldova.
- [10:51]
Jason Radisson
Exactly.
- [10:52]
Mike Linton
Wherever. And when you go to the math tables, what you might say is, well, let's hang on a minute. And because the economy is the consumer, the amount of cars, other kinds of stuff might be at play here. Is that what we're talking about?
- [11:06]
Jason Radisson
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. It could be regulatory environment, it could be the structure of the market. If you take the gig economy. The gig economy likes income disparity. It does really well in congested areas with a wealthy urban population and a relatively poor rural population that is relatively underemployed. Like, that's the perfect scenario for a.
- [11:30]
Mike Linton
You gotta have a labor poll and you gotta have a pool wants to get work.
- [11:33]
Jason Radisson
Yeah, exactly.
- [11:35]
Mike Linton
People that can pay the labor pool.
- [11:37]
Jason Radisson
Exactly. And that doesn't apply to Poughkeepsie in the way, you know, it applies to Sao Paulo. So, you know, there are. There are all kinds of assumptions like that that you can pretty quickly. You know, the. The key ones are. Are. Are there. It is, you know, some of the things that we were just talking about and maybe 10 other things. The whole point is it takes, like, a day to do this. This isn't rocket science, you know, it's spreadsheet math and a little bit of investigation to kind of figure out what you have in your hands. If you didn't do that already in the interviewing process.
- [12:11]
Mike Linton
What I have to say is there's also an element here that we've talked about in a lot of other shows for marketers, and correct me if you think I'm wrong, is the marketer has to understand the business variables, not just the marketing variables. Because if I am marketing against and I'm not aware of the regulation in my way or this other stuff in the way, I am going to spend a lot of money trying to make a market move that doesn't want to move. So. So when we're talking about the general manager. Yeah, this should be easy math. When we're talking about the marketer, if you're in tune with the business, this is easy math. If you are not, and you're only looking at the effects of your marketing, you could go down the wrong road here. Is that right or wrong?
- [12:55]
Jason Radisson
Yeah, 100%. And we only spoke about top line. Now, of course, the other part of that is, at what cost are you getting that top line? How efficient are you? So, you know, I think of it, you know, roughly as these two vectors. The Revenue vector, the cost, the cost of marketing vector, if you want to think about it as a percentage of revenue and you know, how well you understand what's underneath that. Um, you know, hopefully you've been boning up, you've had, you know, a few weeks before taking the job. You come in knowing most of that and really what you're doing is kind of validating it internally.
- [13:31]
Mike Linton
Yeah, got it. Now let's, let's. Why we're, while we're talking about how you reset expectations, we, we can go back to when people just roll over the expectations, which then you really got to think through how you're going to do the job. But you know, you, we mentioned, we talked about you being the fixer. What is a fixer? You know, other than there's been a show, a lot of shows on fixers and I'm not sure you're that kind of fixer, but.
- [13:57]
Jason Radisson
Right.
- [13:58]
Mike Linton
I mean, TV shows on fixers. So talk about being the fixer and how you fix things.
- [14:04]
Jason Radisson
So I think, you know, the situation where a lot of folks are coming into a new role and you know, as you said at the beginning of the show, you might have more or less experience as you jump into this, you're in this new role. The company is jammed up for one reason or another, strategic or executionally. So you have to get in and you kind of have to unstick things. And the key is in a first step putting that plan down that is reasonable for those first couple of months. So there's a little bit of the process. You'll have a honeymoon, it may be very short, it may be a week or two. Hopefully you've got a month or month and a half. But within that time, you know, you should be out there within a month. Within six weeks, you should definitely be out there with the plan. And the plan doesn't need to be in fast moving businesses that are, you know, experiencing challenges. The plan should be with a reasonable horizon next couple of quarters out initially and just get people executing on what you need them to be executing on. So, you know, the fixer is the person that comes in and does the diagnostic and gets that new plan in place and then starts mobilizing the troops to go execute on that new plan.
- [15:25]
Mike Linton
Got it.
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Jason Radisson
The shorter and the cleaner and the greater the ROI of that work is sort of what I would say are the three kind of key metrics of what's a good fixer.
- [15:37]
Mike Linton
So if I summarize what you just said, you know, diagnose the problem or the Plan, put some early wins in there and then show momentum while you're communicating it to the company. Is that fair?
- [15:50]
Jason Radisson
Yeah, very much so.
- [15:51]
Mike Linton
When you're, when you're looking at this fixing thing, you can identify the problem as a number of things. Sales, structure, talent, technology, something else. How do you rally the company around a problem? Because my experience has been usually the company either knows of the problem and has put it behind an electric fence and doesn't really want to talk about it. It's going to just say, hey, market your way around this or that's not really the problem. Or we just got to convince consumers our value prop is better. Just tell them we're better. How do you actually rally the company around the problem, especially if it's different than what they think it is?
- [16:31]
Jason Radisson
Yeah, the best way to rally the company is to validate it out there and put points on the board. You can talk until you're blue in the face about the gaps and about the problem. It's really starting to act on the solution that I think is the heart of all good change, successful change. So getting out there as quickly as possible in the market with whatever your solution is on the solution itself. What I've sort of, and I think we're overall in this evolution where the traditional marketing role is now becoming more and more of like a supply chain job where you've got all of these different channels, you've got to run them super efficiently. There, there's a lot more just kind of math and tech involved. And you know, I think in each of those channels, in each of the opportunities on the organic side, on CRM, on your SEO, on all of your different programs, there's kind of an optimum and, and you should know it. And if you get into the company and you know, the company doesn't have a strong thesis about how to make Google work for it, or you know, paid or SEO or, you know, doesn't have a strong thesis about which CRM campaigns actually work and why. Those are the kinds of things that, you know, are going to be part of that additional plan. Because, you know, right after you come back with, you know, here's sort of the two or three things I want to focus on right out of the gate, the next step is here's how we're going to be the best acquisition in our industry. You know, here's how we're going to plug our leaky buckets on the CRM side. You've got to then get into specific strategies. So that's that next step.
- [18:34]
Mike Linton
But I agree, I agree with this. And I can't let the supply chain job comment go without drilling down on the. Sorry, no, this is kind of thing, what the show is about. So we're talking about marketers as actually not just doing just marketing or business, but as a supply chain job. Exactly. What do you mean by that? And, and what makes a good supply chain marketer or a bad one?
- [19:01]
Jason Radisson
Yeah, so what I mean by that is the skill set is a supply chain skill set. So if the goal is I have, you know, a billion dollars of marketing spend, or I have a hundred million dollars of marketing spend and I must earn an ROI of X on that hundred million dollars, it's a portfolio optimization job. And, you know, which is a typical supply chain job, I have 10 different suppliers I can buy hardware components from, or I have 10 different hardware components, I have a hundred different suppliers. Now optimize, we have, we have kind of a more limited set. You know, there's only Google, there's only Facebook. There's only, you know, there's, there's pretty strong and performance marketplace brand.
- [19:52]
Mike Linton
You have influencers, you might have all this other stuff.
- [19:55]
Jason Radisson
Yeah, you have.
- [19:56]
Mike Linton
All right, I hear the story. I hear the story.
- [19:58]
Jason Radisson
Ultimately, they're a source of value to the company that you got to go build a relationship and optimize.
- [20:05]
Mike Linton
I like it. Okay, so let's, let's just drill down on one thing. Let's say sales are in decline, which is usually one of the reasons they're going to bring in a new marketer. The brand has gotten tired, the product line is tired, competitors have passed you. How do you identify the real issue? Because a lot of times the company doesn't really know the real issue. And I know there's math here, but let's, let's talk about, if you can give us an example of how this might work. And then I want to talk about algorithm shelf campaigns.
- [20:43]
Jason Radisson
But yeah, yeah, totally.
- [20:44]
Mike Linton
This is all about sales and closing and CAC and all that other stuff. Yeah, yeah.
- [20:48]
Jason Radisson
So I think, you know, to begin with, there's the relationship between the chief sales officer and chief marketing officer. And, you know, hopefully it's a robust relationship and everybody who agrees. Everybody agrees on who owns what. Yeah, I think there is, you know, there can be some organizational challenges there and sort of just defining that. Yeah. So I'll say that is the big, long caveat.
- [21:12]
Mike Linton
But that is a huge caveat because usually sales are down. Sales hardly ever shows up because we are really crappy at selling.
- [21:19]
Jason Radisson
Right, right.
- [21:20]
Mike Linton
We can't close worth beans.
- [21:22]
Jason Radisson
And both could be true. The marketing could stink and the sales team could be really crappy at closing. Right. So I think you have to parse it and the funnel is a good way to parse it. And there get some math together. You know, how many are opportunities down? You know, if anything there's you could delineate kind of on the funnel and opportunities coming in versus close and the sales process and sales effectiveness. And I think from there you could start to open up the dialogue of like, here's how much marketing can bring to increase top line. Here's where we see opportunities on the sales side. And without punching the other guy or poking the other guy in the eye, you know, at least having that conversation.
- [22:11]
Mike Linton
That'S for the other fixer to do.
- [22:14]
Jason Radisson
That's right.
- [22:14]
Mike Linton
That's the sales fixer. I want to make sure. Here's what I hear you saying and tell me if I have this right, which is, look, so you're going to take apart the whole marketing and sales funnel and then you're going to math each piece of it and then you're going to say this is, this is where we are actually losing as a company. Not where marketing sucks or sales sucks. It might be, look, we don't have enough leads. We can't close. The leads we get if I'm B2B, you know, we. We get them in the office and we can't close them or we go visit them and we can't close them. Let's. Let's really isolate the whole story. And sometimes the whole story may be across the entire marketing funnel from acquisition to close to retention and could be. But that. That's where you got to take it. Is that a good summary of what.
- [23:00]
Jason Radisson
You Just a great summary in and to reiterate because I think.
- [23:04]
Mike Linton
Thank you for being on the show.
- [23:08]
Jason Radisson
One of the. And one of the most important points is the company should know which programs are working. So you know, it's what makes your job as a fixer super easy is if you jump in and the company is like, we have absolutely no idea which channel actually works for us.
- [23:23]
Mike Linton
And what percent of companies that you have interfaced with actually have no idea. Because my guess is it's pretty big percentage.
- [23:32]
Jason Radisson
Yeah, probably 20 or 30%.
- [23:33]
Mike Linton
That's a huge.
- [23:34]
Jason Radisson
Then there's. There's another 30% or so, maybe even 40 or 50% that says we know one thing works, but we don't know what the next thing is.
- [23:45]
Mike Linton
Yeah, I agree.
- [23:46]
Jason Radisson
Yeah, we rock in TikTok. Like we have the TikTok strategy. We're the most acquisitive consumer company in TikTok in the country. We know TikTok. Okay, but what else you know that's more common?
- [24:02]
Mike Linton
You talked about in our pre discussion algorithmic shelf campaigns. Yeah, I was thinking, you know, it took me forever to pronounce that, but I think, you know, just continental shelf. There's bookshelf, now there's. Tell me about it.
- [24:20]
Jason Radisson
Right, right. So it's an old Harrah ism. I worked for Gary Loveman back in the casino industry, back in the consolidation of that industry. And it was our internal name for our kind of core CRM programs that just produce money. So those are our shelf campaigns because they're on the shelf. Any in our world, any casino brand could run them. The algos were pre calculated. So if you had something like you wanted to get a particular high opportunity segment from midwestern neighborhoods to come into Las Vegas, that was a shelf campaign and all you needed to do was run it. It was pre calculated every night. It was always available to you.
- [25:12]
Mike Linton
I got it. And that was, you know, at the time the best loyalty program probably in the world. And that was where you could say we understand that this segment values a free dinner or a show more than this segment and we're going to send this to them or they value room upgrades better. Is that what I'm talking about?
- [25:34]
Jason Radisson
Yeah. The most important part of the algorithm was the calculation of upside potential. So in a consumer company, the power to be able to know at any given point in time your wallet share with every one of your customers. Right. And how big that wallet is. Is this somebody that spends $10,000 a year on our category, but they're only spending 100 bucks a year with us? That upside potential is what we spent our marketing money on. That's where we got the roi. That's where the ROI is just completely off the charts versus all the stuff we've been in. Right. You don't want to send offers to your most loyal customers who don't need it anyway, who are going to visit you in a high frequency pattern anyway. Those kinds of things, those were the algos. And I firmly believe what I have seen ever since that experience. And I was responsible for database marketing back then. I had whole portfolio of campaigns and analysts creating new campaigns and these kinds of things and working with the properties to get them out there. What I've seen since is every company has a few of these, they just don't know about them yet.
- [26:50]
Mike Linton
I agree. And we've done a number of shows on this, which is get your data in order. Like any of the data, you should always be gobbling up more data. But the other thing is get your data arranged in a way you can use it versus just collecting it.
- [27:05]
Jason Radisson
True, true, exactly. And I think there's. It's just a human tendency to hire more in an IT direction in some of these phases. And then it becomes a data exercise and somebody puts together a big data lake and there's. And that can take a year or two. You can get a lot more impact a lot quicker if you work backwards from what you think those opportunities are like.
- [27:34]
Mike Linton
Find an outcome and make sure.
- [27:36]
Jason Radisson
Yeah, define an outcome to get to an outcome.
- [27:39]
Mike Linton
Yeah, exactly.
- [27:40]
Jason Radisson
Define, you know, here are three, four or five things we think would really ring the cash register if we just knew how to do them and then go find the data to run that particular campaign. Got it.
- [27:50]
Mike Linton
So while we're on it, let's talk about if tech is the problem, if data is the problem, if the data arrangement or array is the problem, how do you approach the company on that? Particularly if you're the marketer and what you're saying is these tools, I can only see so much of their outcome because I'm blind, because I don't. The data is either not in our system or it's arranged terribly.
- [28:19]
Jason Radisson
What do I do? I think that problem is really being mitigated more and more every day, every week. And I'm sure there are edge cases, there are companies where it is just reg and impossible to get any data. I get it.
- [28:38]
Mike Linton
Or where you get three to four different sets of data, depending on how you ask the question.
- [28:44]
Jason Radisson
Yeah.
- [28:45]
Mike Linton
And that, that is the one that I think a lot of marketers run up against is they will come in with data and then sales might have their own data and then finance might have another set of data. And you spend the first half of the meeting just aligning the data.
- [29:02]
Jason Radisson
Yeah.
- [29:02]
Mike Linton
And why all the data is getting better? Sometimes the coordination of data is. Is actually not in all companies getting better.
- [29:09]
Jason Radisson
Yeah, very much so. The part that I think is getting better quickest is the part of instrumentation and the ability to sort of crunch data. Because you used to, used to have to be a SAS programmer or hire a SaaS programmer, before it was a Python developer, before it was a Java developer. And depending on the scale of the data you were trying to get after now, and literally as of last week in particular, and we do a bunch of internal benchmarks on the different gen AI tools. But ChatGPT in the release of last week writes really clean sort of algo quality, algorithm development, quality python code, straight shot first. First shot and all of our kind of internal testing scripts. So I think you're in this mode too where one thing is you got to get the instrumentation. So if nobody has thought to get that data from the mobile app, you've got to convince the mobile development team to instrument the app to get the key variable you need. But again we're kind of working backwards from what are the data that we need to go get a program live in the market. And really sort of my emphasis would be more on that than getting, you know, the sort of planning data sets and things. I think a lot of times it's more effective to just work with your FP and A partners to get sort of the planning data house in order and put in your request the database team. And those variables will eventually come. If I'm ramping up and we've got to turn around this company, we got to do it in four or six weeks to put points on the board. I'm going to go straight to the engineering team and ask for a couple of variables so I can go get that campaign launched.
- [30:59]
Mike Linton
Yeah, yeah, I think super thing. And a good way to move towards our last question which is look, focus on the outcome. You have to have get the data aligned so you can see the problem clearly solve the problem. So that brings us, you know, we're just about out of time. We have a traditional last question. It's a two parter, funniest story you can tell on the air and or practical advice to marketers we haven't talked about yet. You can pick one or both, but you have to pick at least one. So knock yourself out.
- [31:30]
Jason Radisson
I'll start with practical advice since that's a little bit of where we're at. I think I would encourage anybody that's thinking about the marketing job and it really depends a little bit on where you are in your career currently and how invested you are. I think the, in the skills that you've built already. The role is transforming so rapidly. I would encourage anyone sort of, let's say in their 20s and in their early 30s who hasn't gotten that deep into it to really spend time at a startup and one that has means, one that's scaling, one that has good product market fit and particularly getting in at that sort of first 200 employee level and spending at least the time to get to 2,000 employees, 3,000 employees and kind of experiencing that whole curve. I think there's nothing better in terms of just staying right on the cusp of where the technology is. Budget efficiency, a lot of wasn't the case during the pandemic. Now we're in budget efficiency mode. There's a lot of lessons to learn in there. It's going to be called growth, most likely. But something around that role I think is the future of, you know, what's going to be producing the CMOs of the next 10 years and possibly 20. It's those kinds of experiences that would be my piece of advice. My story would be funny experience.
- [33:02]
Mike Linton
Let's hear it, Jason.
- [33:05]
Jason Radisson
I had a funny experience at Uber which was we had to negotiate. I ran Nevada during, during my tenure there and you know, launching and scaling up that market to the first, first couple billion dollars. And the experience, the one of the places we got stuck, we had a little bit of a challenge with the airport and generally we had a data challenge around that. We had, you know, sort of Travis and his personality and sort of his desire to just absolutely keep everyone out of our data and not always working with sort of public entities in the ways that were really helpful. And I actually managed to get an agreement which was he basically stopped showing up to the meetings to boycott the decision. But the decision was we were blocked at Homeland Security in Las Vegas airport and we were trying to figure out a way to share enough data that they wouldn't block us from the airport. And what we ended up doing was, was agreeing that we would pass driver's license plates to authorities. And these were part of the anti terrorism measures and everything. But the crazy part of it was just the dynamic of, you know, the, the non. For anyone who's been out there and your, your boss is giving you that, I'm not going to agree. But I'm also no longer going to go to the meetings. And there by the way, is the doghouse. That was an experience that I had in Uber and I had a lot of positive experiences. That was one that was a little bit more on the border.
- [34:47]
Mike Linton
All right. I think that's a great way to end the show. Thank you Jason and thanks to everyone for listening to CMO Confidential. Look for more of our shows on the I Hear Everything Network, Spotify, Apple and YouTube which include an operations trained CEO dishes on what he really thinks about marketing. Is AI an extinction event for agencies Marketing? The Battle between Believers and non believers, parts 1, 2 and 3 and tales from the Marketing Crypt. If you're enjoying the show, please hit the like button and subscribe. Hey, all you marketers, stay safe out there. This is Mike Linton signing off for CMO Confidential.