Joe Tripodi | Lessons Learned From a Storied Marketing Career | Former CMO Coca-Cola, Mastercard

Summary

CMO Confidential: Lessons Learned From a Storied Marketing Career with Joe Trapote

Release Date: March 18, 2025

Introduction

In this insightful episode of CMO Confidential, host Mike Linton sits down with marketing veteran Joe Trapote to delve into the lessons learned from Joe's extensive and varied career. Joe, with his impressive tenure as Chief Marketing Officer (CMO) at industry giants like Coca-Cola and MasterCard, brings a wealth of experience and invaluable insights to the table. This conversation covers a broad spectrum of topics, from the importance of teamwork and understanding business operations to navigating the complexities of branding and adapting to evolving marketing tools.

Guest Background

Mike Linton introduces Joe Trapote, highlighting his multifaceted career:

"Joe has been the CMO for some great companies... Subway, Allstate, Coca Cola, the Bank of New York, MasterCard, and Seagrams." (00:37)

Joe also brings significant board experience, having served on the boards of Voya Financial, Play Fight Sports, and Zeus Fire and Protection. Their professional relationship dates back to 2004, providing a foundation of trust and mutual respect.

Key Lessons in Marketing Leadership

Joe begins by sharing foundational lessons from his career:

1. The Importance of Teamwork

   "My number one lesson, it's all about teamwork... It all has to be how you work together as a team." (02:19)

   Joe emphasizes that approaching marketing leadership as a solitary savior undermines collaborative efforts vital for success.

2. Understanding the Operational Side of the Business

   "It's very critical in my experience to understand the operational side of the business, not just the marketing." (02:19)

   Through roles that combined marketing with commercial operations, Joe learned the necessity of grasping customer needs, merchandising, retailing, and other operational facets to drive effective marketing strategies.

3. Advertising is Just One Piece of the Puzzle

   "Advertising just cannot solve all business problems... it's a lot." (03:15)

   Joe cautions against the misconception that a single ad campaign can pivot a company's trajectory, highlighting the need for a holistic approach to brand success, including pricing, distribution, quality, and innovation.

Challenges with Marketing Agencies

Mike and Joe discuss the delicate relationship with marketing agencies:

"I never have fired the agency when I showed up because that is a signal to the company that you're going to solve all the problems with a new agency and some new creative." (04:26)

Joe agrees, sharing his approach to improving agency performance without abrupt changes:

"Now, you've got to figure out how do you work with them to improve." (04:55)

He stresses the importance of collaboration and setting realistic expectations to avoid the trap of expecting immediate solutions from new agencies.

Transitioning Across Industries

When asked about shifting industries, Joe underscores the universal principles of marketing:

"A widget's a widget's a widget... ruthlessly focused on the customer, on innovation, on teamwork." (05:36)

He believes that while industries differ, the core tenets of consumer engagement and marketing remain consistent, advocating for cross-departmental collaboration to break down silos and foster a unified strategy.

Successes and Setbacks: Learning from Experience

Joe candidly shares both successes and failures from his career:

1. MasterCard's "Future of Money" Campaign

   "We went out and launched this campaign, MasterCard, the future of Money... it wasn't the future of money." (07:04)

   The campaign failed due to a disconnect between the envisioned brand image and customer perception, teaching Joe the importance of aligning marketing initiatives with existing brand DNA.

2. Delayed Product Launches

   "We waited to get it perfect. Visa came in with a less functional product and they captured the marketplace." (07:04)

   This setback highlighted the risks of perfectionism in product launches, emphasizing the need for timely market entry.

3. Martell Cognac's Misaligned Targeting

   "We were targeting kind of old gentleman's clubs when really the market was African American in bars." (07:04)

   Joe learned to better understand and align with the actual customer base to pivot marketing strategies effectively.

4. Branding Politics with Eurocard in Europe

   "Don't underestimate the politics of branding... those were huge battles." (09:38)

   Navigating regional partnerships revealed the challenges of maintaining brand consistency while respecting local business dynamics.

5. Coca-Cola's White Can Campaign

   "The can was white. Sometimes...they thought that was a Diet Coke. It was regular." (10:03)

   This misstep underscored the importance of thorough testing and understanding consumer interpretations of packaging changes.

Building a Resilient Brand Stance

Joe discusses the delicate balance brands must maintain when taking stands on social or political issues:

"Don't let activism distract you from your purpose as a brand and as a company." (13:05)

Collaborating with co-author Kim Whitler, Joe advises:

• Align Issues with Business Objectives: Focus on one or two causes closely related to the brand.
• Ensure Organizational Consensus: Decisions should have broad support, including at the board level.
• Avoid Alienating Core Customers: Take stands that resonate with the customer base without excluding others.

The CMO's Role: Challenges and Realities

Addressing Seth Matlin's assertion that the CMO role is among the hardest in business, Joe offers a nuanced perspective:

"Marketing is a multi-layer kind of team sport... set proper expectations and pace it accordingly." (16:04)

He acknowledges the high expectations often placed on CMOs but argues that effective leadership and clear communication can mitigate these challenges.

Managing Relationships with New CEOs

Joe shares strategies for navigating relationships with new CEOs:

1. Proactive Engagement

   "Don't sit down in your big chair in your office, go to them." (22:14)

   Initiating conversations and presenting candid assessments builds trust and establishes a collaborative dynamic.

2. Setting Clear Expectations

   "Manage expectations. Let's have checkpoints... so there are no surprises." (23:43)

   Regular updates and transparent communication ensure alignment and prevent misunderstandings.

Adapting to Emerging Marketing Tools

When discussing the rapid evolution of marketing tools like AI and big data, Joe advises:

1. Continuous Learning

   "People have to have that kind of spark in them for continuous learning and evolution." (26:16)

2. Strategic Integration

   "Understand these trends... marry the two together." (26:16)

Joe emphasizes the importance of understanding emerging trends and strategically integrating them to enhance marketing effectiveness without being swayed solely by the allure of new tools.

Practical Advice and Anecdotes

In the concluding segment, Joe offers practical advice and shares a humorous story:

1. Practical Advice

   "Don't believe your own bullshit... try to remain humble and hungry." (28:48)

   He urges marketers to stay grounded, focus on teamwork and integrity, and avoid overconfidence fueled by large budgets.

2. Funny Story

   Joe recounts the Captain Morgan for President campaign, highlighting a memorable moment when a commercial inadvertently featured future political strategist James Carville in a humorous context:

   "...the back of, like, four people's heads, and then these two people... James Carville... he was in the hot tub with four women." (29:08)

   This anecdote underscores the unpredictable nature of marketing campaigns and the importance of adaptability.

Conclusion

Mike Linton wraps up the episode by thanking Joe for his candid and enriching conversation. Listeners are encouraged to explore more episodes of CMO Confidential across various platforms, diving deeper into topics like AI's role in marketing and managing socio-political issues within brand strategies.

"Thank you for joining us, Joe. And thanks to everyone for listening to CMO Confidential." (31:00)

Key Takeaways

• Teamwork and Collaboration: Success in marketing leadership hinges on fostering a collaborative environment rather than relying on individual prowess.
• Holistic Business Understanding: Effective marketing requires a deep understanding of the broader business operations and consumer needs.
• Strategic Branding: Align marketing initiatives with brand identity and customer perceptions to avoid costly missteps.
• Adaptability to Change: Staying abreast of emerging marketing tools and trends is essential, coupled with strategic integration tailored to the specific business context.
• Managing Expectations: Clear and transparent communication with leadership ensures realistic expectations and sustained support for marketing initiatives.
• Humility and Integrity: Maintaining humility and focusing on team integrity are crucial for long-term success in marketing leadership roles.

Joe Trapote’s experiences and insights provide a roadmap for current and aspiring CMOs navigating the complex and ever-evolving landscape of marketing leadership.

Transcript

[Joe Trapote]

The CMO Confidential Podcast is a proud member of the I Hear Everything Podcast network. Looking to launch or scale your podcast, I Hear Everything delivers podcast production, growth and monetization solutions that transform your words into profit. Ready to give your brand a voice then visit iheareverything.com welcome to CMO Confidential, the podcast that takes you inside the drama, decisions and choices that go with being the head of marketing. Hosted by five time CMO Mike Linton.

[Mike Linton]

Welcome marketers, advertisers and those who love them. The Chief Marketing Officer, Confidential. CMO Confidential is a program that takes you inside the drama, the decisions and the politics that go with being the head of marketing at any company in what is one of the most scrutinized jobs in the executive suite. I'm Mike Linton, the former Chief Marketing Officer of Best Buy, ebay, Farmers Insurance and ancestry dot com. I'm here today with my guest, Joe Trapote. Today's topic, lessons learned over a storied, and I mean storied marketing career. Now, Joe has been the CMO for some great companies. I'm going to take a really deep breath and read them off. Subway, Allstate, Coca Cola, the Bank of New York, MasterCard, and Seagrams. He also has significant board experience, having served on the boards of Voya Financial, Play Fight Sports and Zeus, Fire and Protection. Full disclosure, I have known Joe since we met at the first meeting of the marketing 50 and I hesitate to say this year, 2004. I thought it would be great to pick Joe's brain on several marketing topics and hear his advice for those looking to advance their career. Welcome, Joe.

[Joe Trapote]

Thank you. Mike and I say we've come a long way, baby. You know that.

[Mike Linton]

We certainly have. Still kicking too, while we're at it.

[Joe Trapote]

I'm just saying.

[Mike Linton]

So it's great to see you. And let's just start the most important lessons you learned during your career. You were at big brands, big budgets, a bunch of different industries. What are some lessons, constant lessons or constants you would share with our listeners?

[Joe Trapote]

Yeah, I think, well, one that's actually a little sad is once you no longer have those big budgets, no one knows you anymore.

[Mike Linton]

I know it's like, who are these two guys talking on this?

[Joe Trapote]

But you're everyone's friend. But don't take it personally. I think what I found, my number one lesson, it's all about teamwork. And you know, if you think it's going to, if you think you're going in as a savior and you have that mindset that's not the right approach. It all has to be how you work together as a team. It's also very critical in my experience to understand the operational side of the business, not just the marketing. I was fortunate at Coke to be chief marketing and commercial officer. So you had to live with understanding your customer needs, merchandising, retailing, all those kind of things. You know, at Allstate we had, in the marketing group, we also had a customer experience group, which was great to understand that. And of course at Subway, I also not, in addition to marketing, had food product and safety and food safety, which was kind of an important thing in a, in a QSR business. So, you know, those were kind of subject, some of the lessons, I would say. And also, you know, I think advertising just cannot solve all business problems. You know, when you, when you get into some of these jobs and let's say the prior CMO has exited and you come in and, and they think you're the savior and they think maybe naively, even at a board level, that an ad campaign is going to change the trajectory of their business. That's, that's just not going to be the case. It may, we, you know, it may well be that you have a, a pricing problem, a distribution problem, a quality problem, a lack of innovation problem. All those things contribute to the success or the failure of a brand. And you know, getting people's head around that, including your boss, your boss, the CEO, including the senior management team, because frequently, you know, they think of marketing as advertising. And that's been certainly something I've seen in my career. And you have to correct that. And you got to say, well, it's a lot. You know, advertising is one part of the pie, but there are all these other dimensions of this job. So those are some of the, I would say, the key lessons that I've picked up over the years.

[Mike Linton]

I think that is dead on, spot on. And I will say personally, I never have fired the agency when I showed up because that is a signal to the company that you're going to solve all the problems with a new agency and some new creative. When usually if you look at the ops, yeah, sometimes it's the marketing, but usually it's not the marketing that's causing the company to not win. And if you don't understand those financials and how the company really works, you will actually make a promise you can't keep.

[Joe Trapote]

Oh, Mike, you're a thousand percent right. And I've always felt the same thing. You know, now I've had some tough conversations with Agencies, when I've gotten, I said, listen, we need better. You know, you made this brand look small, it needs to feel bigger, you know, but at the end of the day, you know, you have to figure out how do you work with them to improve. I suppose to say, and you're so right, you set you up. Well, the agency came in, they come with a new campaign, but our business didn't change what happened. So that, that is something that I think as a, in particularly as a new CMO coming in, you've got, you don't get in that trap, because if you're in that trap, you've got a big problem.

[Mike Linton]

Totally agree. So when you change a lot of industries, what's the biggest difference when you change industries?

[Joe Trapote]

Well, I always say a widget's a widget's a widget. So, you know, I think the principles of consumer engagement and marketing are the same regardless of what you're selling, in my view. And that, you know, that's going to be, you know, ruthlessly focused on the customer, you know, on innovation, on teamwork, on the ability to share wisdom, learning knowledge out around your company as much as possible globally. You know, you can't have people operating in silos. You've got to come in as CMO and say, listen, we're going to work together kind of in a network model where we share the good, the bad and the ugly more aggressively. That will help us. So I, I would say, you know, it's, it's. From my perspective, it's always been, how do you get people on the team in the boat with you and not just the people working for you, also the senior leadership team that you're working with, you know, and your CEO, because you've got to manage those expectations very, very carefully. Otherwise they, they think there's going to be magic and instant change is going to occur. And frequently that's not the case. So it's been, I've been very fortunate to work with a lot of different CEOs, and, you know, and all of them had a different style. Right. But I think it's critical that when you get in there, you kind of take them down the path of here's how things are going to evolve and change so there isn't some unrealistic expectation on the front end.

[Mike Linton]

Hey, so you've had a lot of successes and I'm sure there's a bunch of disappointments. You want to share a story or two or would you share a story or two and what you learned from.

[Joe Trapote]

That setback yeah, I've got a lot of failures I can talk to. And number one was I woke up one day, I was in the office at MasterCard, and this kind of, this kind of vision came to me that we would rebrand MasterCard as the future of money. And this was basically in the early 1990s when chip cards were just starting to get into the consumer's hands, even though there was no functionality to chip card. So we able, we went out and launched this campaign, MasterCard, the future of Money. What I didn't realize at the time, quite frankly, was that the person, the customer of MasterCard, if you looked at pictorial imagery techniques, the picture that capital, that kind of, really, really kind of was the essence of what a MasterCard cardholder was, was a small porch in middle America with a little soft light on it wasn't the future of money. So I was trying to leap to something that was out of the DNA of the brand, you know, which I would say is also probably some of the lesson from Bud Light, you know, probably don't try to go someplace too aggressively. You've got to kind of wean your customer off of that. That would be one, I would say. Another thing that I learned was kind of waiting for perfection before launching a product. We had, I thought, a very good business card product, fleet Card product, a MasterCard, and we waited to get it perfect. Visa came in with a less functional product and they captured the marketplace. Another one is Martell cognac. When I was at Seagram, you know, fun brand, but we were targeting kind of old gentleman's clubs when really the market was African American in bars, you know. And so we said, geez, we're missing who the. Who. Who the overall customer is here. And so we pivoted at that point. And then I would say, I, you know, don't underestimate, particularly when you're in kind of a multi, a multi market or transnational alliance with the company. Don't underestimate the politics of branding. I can tell you that the battles I had in Europe with Europeans who owned Eurocard and they were a partner with MasterCard, and I was trying to say, wait a minute, your consumer wants a global product. They don't want to be European, they want to be global. And, and that those were huge battles because it was very emotional for them. It signified control that MasterCard wanted to take control of the payment system in Europe, and that really wasn't the case. We were looking for greater synergy in order to gain greater, greater velocity of the business.

[Mike Linton]

So that means giving up power if I'm on the other side of this and giving up my choice to run the brand and accepting some federal tenants. That's a super hard one.

[Joe Trapote]

It is.

[Mike Linton]

What's a lesson from that on how to do it?

[Joe Trapote]

Yeah, well, I think you've got to, you know, ultimately you. If you're not engaging with them and not threat, you have to appear not threatening. This is. We don't want to threaten you. We want to be a business partner.

[Mike Linton]

Let's.

[Joe Trapote]

I can remember doing a lot of conversations with very senior bankers in Europe. But, you know, at, at that point, they didn't really see, they didn't see the credit card business as an opportunity to make huge profits. I said, look at it. Citibank's making billions of dollars a year in credit card. Why aren't you German. The German banks, the biggest German banks, some of the biggest in the world. They didn't want to play there. And, and I said, well, why would you want not to have a presence in that space? And it was more the fact that they saw the whole thing as control, right. And they wanted to control the payment system. And they were afraid that MasterCard, just like we did in the US was going to license the industrials, GE, GM, AT, and T. And they didn't want that. They saw the banking system, as in Europe, was for the banks. So that was a tough sell. Eventually, though, it caught up with everybody. And eventually they realized that it was better for them and their consumers to have a. To have, you know, to be global and have a global acceptance because we weren't going to put Eurocard stickers on the doors of millions of merchants in the US that wasn't going to happen. Right. The other final one, I would say is when we were at Coke, you know, all with good intention, we, we did a whole. A can that was white, a white can, in order to kind of put money towards polar bear. Polar bear survival and that kind of world.

[Mike Linton]

What we.

[Joe Trapote]

And sometimes this is the consequence of the consequence. You know, the, the can was white. In some airlines with flight attendants, they thought that was a Diet Coke. Really, it was a full Coke. It was regular. Coca Cola gave that to some passengers who might have had diabetes. And, you know, we had a little problem there. So we quickly kind of scrambled and we should have thought of that when we did the packaging design around that. But. So I could go on endlessly, Mike, with the mistakes, but fortunately we had a few more hits than we had errors.

[Mike Linton]

And when you make the mistake, I Guess the thing is, incorporate it into your head and don't do it again like in the Coke. Can think with what's the worst thing that can happen, not what is the best thing that will happen. Because the best thing is easy to manage. The worst thing is really hard to manage. So you've got to really think that through, right?

[Joe Trapote]

Oh, yeah. When you have to recall from the bot, from the bottlers, like billions of cans, that's not a good thing. So it can get you canned, in fact.

[Mike Linton]

So you talked. You talked a little bit about Budweiser, and I know you recently contributed to an article on brands taking a stand on issues. And one of your co authors was Kim Whitler, who's been on the show three times, I think, or maybe at least three. Tell us a little bit about that article and then what advice you would give to marketers on this issue.

[Joe Trapote]

Yeah, I think. Well, Kim is a wonderful person to work with. She's a great professor. You know, I think she created a very simple matrix on how you should be thinking about this and your. And your organization. First of all, it would be your organizational position on issues, social issues, or wherever you're playing.

[Mike Linton]

Economic issues. Yeah.

[Joe Trapote]

Should not just be one person's decision. Right. It needs to have kind of broader support, including at a board level, if you decide to go down that path. And I think some of this was don't let activism, you know, distract you from your purpose as a. As a brand and as a company. It's easy to get sidetracked on those things. And I also would say from my own personal experience is don't try to solve all the world's problems. Find one or two things that are aligned closely with your business and what you do and support that in a deep way as opposed to being a mile wide and an inch deep. But I think the big lesson from Kim's study was don't turn off your base of customers and your distributors and everybody in your ecosystem by taking a stand on something that might not resonate with them. And I think she cited a number of things in the article, whether it was, you know, the. Obviously the Bud Light, it was also Coca Cola, and there's. And their position on the voting rules and in Georgia, which, you know, rubbed a lot of not only bottlers, but also other entities the wrong way. So I think those. It was very simple. So she just created a simple matrix. Understand what you stand for, understand who your customers are, understand your. Your whole ecosystem of your. The people you work with, and then just take A systematic approach to this as opposed to an emotional oh that's one person's cause. I need to support that. And that makes so much sense for, for companies to do that. Just step back and think about the implications as you say, the consequences of the consequences. Right.

[Mike Linton]

And these are super consequences. We for our listeners, we did a show with Kim Whitler who was also previously a CMO before she became a professor at the Darden School called the Budweiser case. You know how not to manage will stand which is these are asymmetrical risks. If the people that are mad at you stop buying, the people that are happy with you usually don't buy anymore.

[Joe Trapote]

Exactly.

[Mike Linton]

So you are in order to make a point in many times you are hurting your brand and because your customers aren't really walking through the grocery store picking a hundred different brands based on their social political stand, but they will pick against you if they're mad at you. And, and that. So an important thing to, to absorb now you're we're touching on this. I'll just get right to the question. Seth Matlins joined us to share his thoughts that the CMO job is the hardest job in business. If it's not the hardest, it's surely one of them. One of the hardest. Your thoughts?

[Joe Trapote]

Yeah, well, I don't necessarily. I think that might be an extreme position. My sense is that marketing is a multi layer kind of team sport and, and I think if the CMO is positioned or seen as quote the savior, you know, in my experience you need to get everybody in the boat. You know, you need to as I mentioned earlier and you know, I think you're the guide, you guide people. You got to get there on board. Understand this is where we're going. So it, it can, it can be a hardest in business because the expectations can be unrealistic, you know, around, you know the ad campaign is going to solve all our business problems. But I think if you set the proper expectations and, and pace it accordingly, here's what we're going to do and you inform everyone then there are no surprises because in my experience, you know, and this goes through the board level and senior leaders and all and mostly all the companies I work for, they really think that sometimes the ad, that a new ad campaign is going to solve broader business. A little naivete. So you know, I do think that there's so many shifts going on in marketing, you know, digital, social, mobile, gaming, AI, you know, et cetera, that these are tools though. They're, they're tools to Help you don't get seduced by the tools. In my view, you got to stay focused on your customer's needs and kind of sometimes bring your customer along with them. Many are ready to leap into some of these things right away, and many customers are not prepared to leap in right of the way. So, and in our experience also, particularly at Coke, we looked at what we called 70, 2010. Let's put 70% of resources against those things that we know were. And we're very confident we're 20% innovating off of that. 70 said, okay, we're going to do innovation off that. But then 10%, that's far out, different, way off the range and take the risk and just ring fence that. Now, unfortunately, in many companies, when they cut the budget, they cut 10% and you're stuck. Right. But, you know, and there are cases, Mike, where the brand needs a complete overhaul, a complete transformation, but, you know, in some instances, it needs some tweaking or just some reinvigoration of what it stands for. But sometimes the brand, the complete brand overhaul is not necessarily the solution for you.

[Mike Linton]

Well, and this is also expectations, which is. It's easy to say we need a complete overhaul. It's really hard to do one just within the company, much less so all the consumers that may or may not want that overall correct. And so almost always, to me, this is a thing about expectations, which is if we're going to overhaul the brand, we got to be pretty serious on how long that's going to take and where it might not work versus. And this is where I think CMOs get in a lot of trouble. They say, well, overhaul the brand, we'll change the creative, we'll put in this new stuff, and it will be all gold. And, boy, that is a marketplace waiting to turn on you and eat you alive.

[Joe Trapote]

I agree.

[Mike Linton]

So when you look, the CMO job is evolving at speed. That's one of Seth's points. And the old tools are failing maybe faster than the new tools can be measured. What do you think about that? And is that the biggest challenge facing CMOs today, or is it something else?

[Joe Trapote]

Yeah, well, yes, I think everything is happening so quickly now, Mike, that it's hard to keep pace with everything if you're the cmo, particularly in a large multinational. There's just so much going on. But that's why it's so important to. I've always believed that people need to get out of their silos. People are way too siloed in big organizations, and sometimes they have their own agendas. But I said, my role is to connect. I may not break down your silo, but my role as a leader would be to connect all the silos so that we're sharing the best practices, we're sharing the wisdom, learning, knowledge. What worked there in Australia, That's a great example for Coca Cola. We launched, we had, I can remember two young marketers came to see me in Atlanta at Coke and they said, you know, Joe, we have this idea that came from an agency and it's going to be to take the name Coca Cola off the bottle and, and, and put in the 50 most common first names in Australia. And I said, are you out of your effing mind? I said, are you kidding? It's. You think I'm going to go and be able to sell that to my boss, you know, the CEO? And then when I got into it and started digging in, I said, well, you know what, this is very interesting. The business had flatlined in Australia and we needed a jolt, right? And so this was actually, it became. There wasn't a lot of media with this. It all was on social media. It was people. It was right when social media was getting bigger and bigger, they would see that can with their name, you know, their name or their friend's name, they say, hey, I found this can, I'm buying it. So then what happened? Then it turned around. That business, instead of growing at 1%, we started growing at 3 or 4% in Australia. And then, lo and behold, other countries, Japan wanted it, China wanted, and they wanted their own version because it wasn't just about names. And then ultimately it spread to Europe and then it spread to Latin America and then ultimately finally came to the us so, and that was a, you know, share a coat, share a coat with a friend, basically.

[Mike Linton]

I can only imagine how much the bottlers and the packaging folks love that challenge. Yes.

[Joe Trapote]

They always say, well, what would happen if these names aren't popular? No one wants to buy them? Well, then they'll have a million Ian.

[Mike Linton]

We'll have a million Ian.

[Joe Trapote]

Exactly. So right here. That turned out to be the most successful promotion in Coke's history. And it just came, you know, so the ability to see someone idea, a powerful idea and kind of, kind of reform it a little bit, tweak it a little so it can work broadly. That was, that was a great learning.

[Mike Linton]

Hey, so one of the things that is always challenge at CMO or I, or we think it is, is when you get a new CEO, you were at MasterCard and made it through three. What's the advice you would give someone when they get a new CEO? How did you do it?

[Joe Trapote]

Yeah, it's a great question because I came in with the first one who I knew well, is a great fellow. And then he left and another fellow came in named Gene Lockhart. Gene is incredibly bright guy. And I can tell you my first meeting with Gene, who met me in my office. We sat down and I said, gene, Here are the 10 things you need to do here. So it was brutal, candid, and very, very spot on. Here are the things, in my view, you need to do to fix this, to fix this business and getting it rolling the right direction to this day. Gene, who I see here around in town, he always says to me, what I loved about Joe was he gave it to me straight right there on the first day. And so the other thing he did.

[Mike Linton]

He came to your office, which is a pretty big signal that he really wants to hear you.

[Joe Trapote]

Exactly, I agree. And that's advice that I give to people. Just if you're starting new on a job, don't sit down in your big chair in your office, go to them. But I would say that was one of the, I think that's a way to kind of in a, you know, to get their trust and to say, listen, I'm objective enough to say we didn't do everything right. Here's things that we need to do better. This is what you should be thinking about. So he really appreciated that and others appreciated that, that I, that I used that technique on. So that was one thing and then, and then just kind of manage expectations. Let's have checkpoints in, you know, every 30, 60, 90 days that we're talking about what progress, what are we all aligned with, what do we have to do and get accomplished in this next time period? So those kind of things, just no surprises. Management.

[Mike Linton]

Mike, let me follow in on this because I've had, I agree most CEOs want that blunt, direct feedback, but some of them don't.

[Joe Trapote]

Right.

[Mike Linton]

And they will take it as an immediate challenge to their authority. How do you sense that out or suss that out before you go full direct? Or do you just say, I'm going direct and if you don't like it, it's probably not going to work anyways.

[Joe Trapote]

Yeah, I, my experience was, I think after a couple meetings with either as a, let's say as a senior leadership team meeting or one on one meeting, you can get some kind of sense of whether that individual is receptive to hearing the truth. So to speak, you know, and, and the fact that, you know, that may need to be change required. Who was the general who said, you know, if you don't like change, you like irrelevance?

[Mike Linton]

Yeah.

[Joe Trapote]

And I always add. Or unemployment even less. So, you know, so you've got to be thinking, and Most of the CEOs were coming in. They kind of have to, they understand they're coming in because they're. Well, that could have been a retirement. I've just gone through that with one of the boards I'm on, you know, retirement. And, and you know, they're new in the chair and they really appreciate, you know, kind of someone saying, a board member or a senior leader coming in saying, here are things that you need to be thinking as you take this, take the reins here. You know, here's the things that are going well and here are things that we can improve upon. And I, my sense is, you can get that sense in the first few meetings with an individual how they would think about that. Right.

[Mike Linton]

And beneath that whole discussion point is if you think they're not receptive, you may not want to come in with the full right where it is. Because, you know, I have had an experience with the CEO that said they wanted to hear all that, but then really did it took it very threatening.

[Joe Trapote]

Right.

[Mike Linton]

And I pulled back when that CEO started going around the room after, after discussion saying, let's rate the other functions from, on a scale of 1 to 10. And I'm like, I can see where this is going way back.

[Joe Trapote]

That's a tough one.

[Mike Linton]

One of the things that, that has happened in the course of your career is that evolution of marketing. And we just talked about tools and setting expectations. If you're sitting in the seat, what recommendation would you give CMOs or folks that work with them on how to manage AI and big data and all these new tools that are coming in, how should they be preparing for what's next?

[Joe Trapote]

Yeah, well, I would tell anybody my advice, anybody in those kind of situations is understand, try to understand a at least a minimal level the emerging trends in marketing and your industry and how you marry the two together. And you don't need to be an expert. You just need to build some awareness and speak the language and have the ability to ask the right questions. That's if that's critical. And then I, then I would say, you know, as you go in and look at the changes that are occurring, you've got to find people that you value, value, teamwork, integrity, low ego people. All of those things. Are very, very helpful. But I think it's all about, people have to have that kind of spark in them for continuous learning and evolution. And you're constantly pushing your people to say, you know, maybe this isn't. This AI is a very new area. I'm, I'm fully supported. You're going away for a week and taking, doing a deep dive and course on AI and what it can be for our business as long as you, you come back and then share that information. So, you know, in my experience, you know, you, you have to understand what's, understand these trends. You don't need to be an expert, but you need to understand them. And then you've got to try to apply your skills and marry the two things together. Because things aren't. Those are just tools. AI is a tool. How we use that tool, Social is a tool. How do we use it to advantage our company and our brand?

[Mike Linton]

Those are, that's beneath this advice you just gave. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I hear you saying one size does not fit all for these tools.

[Joe Trapote]

Correct.

[Mike Linton]

Depending on the industry you're in, yes, that tool may work really well for you or not. But when people say we want to do this like those folks do it, that may or may not be right for you and you at least have some knowledge as to say why it is or why it isn't.

[Joe Trapote]

That's right. Correct. You can't stay static. You know, you want people who are intellectually curious or looking to continuously learn and evolve. And you know, you'll, if you come into a new role, there might be people who have been long timers, who are very comfortable and that's threatening to them. And ultimately you have to give them the opportunity to change and evolve. But if they don't, then sadly you kind of have to get new, new new stat, new team, a new team around you. So.

[Mike Linton]

All right, well, we're almost running out of time, so we're at our traditional last question, the two parter. You can take both or one, but you have to take at least one.

[Joe Trapote]

Okay.

[Mike Linton]

And it's practical advice to our audience that we haven't discussed yet and. Or funniest story you can tell on the air.

[Joe Trapote]

Both. All right, I might be able to do both here. Well, practical advice, and I saw this so much is don't believe your own bullshit, quite frankly. You know, in our industry, Mike, you know, there's plenty of ego in our industry.

[Mike Linton]

You know, usually extroverted ego as well. Yeah, like introverted out there.

[Joe Trapote]

Exactly. Right now and they think that they've, you know, say, wait, geez, you know, we're at Coke. We're, like, 130 years old. There's been a few people before us that helped build this business. So, you know, try to remain humble and hungry. You're standing on the shoulders of giants. And. But it is our industry, you know, from the agencies and from everything you can. You can get an exact. Everybody loves you when you have the big budget. So you. You can get distorted in your. In your whole thinking about what. What you need to do in order to be successful there. It's all about teamwork and integrity. From my point of view, the funny story would be. And it's kind of apropos, given where we were yesterday in 2000, we ran a promotion at Seagram's called Captain Morgan for President. And there wasn't a lot of, you know, going on with. Everybody knew it was Bush versus Gore. And so we did this great. We launched a campaign at Mardi Gras. We announced his candidacy at Mardi Gras. We went to the conventions with the Captain. And. And, you know, and, you know, in those days, it was very difficult to get the networks to take any liquor advertising, hard liquor advertising, you know, and I was begging anybody to take it. But we produced a commercial. And we produced a commercial that had, like, a typical campaign headquarters and the cameras following these young people. And they're talking. These two young people, man and a woman, and they say, you know, what is he doing? He doesn't know anything. And they end up in this room, and you're seeing the back of, like, four people's heads, and then these two people. Then you see the two people looking, and they say, do you know anything about running a campaign? And they turn in, and it's. It's. Why am I drawing a blank? The Louisiana guy that was the campaign manager for Clinton.

[Mike Linton]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. James Carville.

[Joe Trapote]

James Carville. He's in the hot tub with four women. And. And. And it was hilarious. And that Sunday, after the contested election on Meet the Press, they had Mary Matlin and James Carville there. And at the end of the presentation, at the end of the show, the moderator turns to James Carver and said, james, what the heck is this? And they showed the commercial on national television. And he said, I was just having a little fun. You know, James Carville said, it was pretty. You know, it was quite a moment for us that we got it in that way on television.

[Mike Linton]

Okay, So I think the Captain Morgan for President is a good way to end this show. Thank you for joining us, Joe. And thanks to everyone for listening to CMO Confidential. Look for more of our shows on Spotify, Apple and YouTube and the I Hear Everything network, which include. Is the CMO job the hardest job in business? Is your next best customer an AI bot? It's a bird. It's a plane. Holy shit, it's AI. And the Budweiser case. How not to manage a socio political issue. Hey, all you marketers stay safe out there. This is Mike Linton signing off for CMO Confidential.