Podcast Summary: CMO Confidential – Josh Golden | Vulnerability & Personal Branding - Two 2-Edged Swords

Release Date: February 4, 2025

Introduction

In this insightful episode of CMO Confidential, host Mike Linton engages with Josh Golden, the Chief Marketing Officer of Quad and creator of the video series Eureka and Three Things. The discussion revolves around the intricate balance between vulnerability and personal branding within the C-suite, particularly for Chief Marketing Officers (CMOs). Drawing from their extensive experiences, Mike and Josh explore how these elements can both empower and challenge leaders in the marketing domain.

1. The Dual Nature of Vulnerability in Leadership

Understanding Vulnerability: Mike Linton begins by delving into the importance of authenticity and vulnerability in leadership. He reflects on his personal growth from a command-and-control approach to embracing a more genuine and transparent leadership style.

Mike Linton [03:51]: "Being authentic and bringing who you are but also saying what you don't know is extraordinarily powerful and it creates an environment where everyone feels they're in the same foxhole and engaged."

Balancing Act: Josh Golden raises a critical question about the extent of vulnerability leaders should exhibit, emphasizing the potential risks if not managed properly.

Josh Golden [04:18]: "How much vulnerability do you show? Because a lot of people don't want to be in a crisis and have the leader go, 'I have no idea.'"

Challenges of Excessive Vulnerability: Mike acknowledges that while vulnerability fosters trust and engagement, overexposure can undermine a leader's authority.

Mike Linton [06:31]: "If you are overly wishy-washy, people won't want to follow you. It's a double-edged sword."

2. Personal Stories of Vulnerability

Disclosure of Epilepsy: Mike shares his personal experience of revealing his epilepsy diagnosis on LinkedIn, highlighting the fears and unexpected positive outcomes of such transparency.

Mike Linton [06:46]: "When I put it out there, it had an enormous lift both personally and in empowering me to do more of that."

Coping with Loss: He further recounts the emotional impact of his father's passing and how expressing his grief openly strengthened his connection with his team.

Mike Linton [09:51]: "Being able to be vulnerable like that and express that sort of honesty was extraordinarily powerful."

Josh's Perspective: Adding to the conversation, Josh Golden shares his journey as a cancer survivor, reinforcing the notion that vulnerability, when appropriately managed, can enhance leadership.

3. Managing Vulnerability in Business Decisions

The 24-Hour Rule: Mike introduces his "24-hour rule" to handle emotional responses in business scenarios, ensuring that decisions are rational rather than reactionary.

Mike Linton [10:11]: "If someone says something that pisses me off, I think to myself, 'This is not a business response.' I have this 24-hour rule where I don't react immediately unless it's essential."

Distilling Business from Personal Reactions: Josh emphasizes the importance of separating personal emotions from business decisions to maintain clarity and effectiveness.

Josh Golden [12:20]: "You distill the business from the personal reaction because a lot of times people can just try and piss you off in business."

Empowering Teams: Mike discusses his approach to empowering his team by providing actionable options even when he personally lacks a definitive answer.

Mike Linton [14:07]: "When someone asks, 'What should we do?' I come up with two or three answers quickly because I grew up in drama and improv."

4. The Importance and Risks of Personal Branding

Defining Personal Brand: Mike articulates the significance of personal branding for marketers, portraying it as an extension of one's professional identity that transcends the company's brand.

Mike Linton [15:38]: "Personal brand is the 'you' part of the marketing role. It's your joie de vivre that transcends your company."

Potential Pitfalls: The conversation shifts to the dangers of an inflated personal brand that overshadows the company's identity, potentially leading to conflicts and even termination.

Mike Linton [17:53]: "The personal brand can be too big and become the brand, and then the company is not getting enough of the sunlight."

Strategies for Balance: Josh recommends establishing honest feedback mechanisms and exercising restraint in personal branding activities to maintain equilibrium.

Josh Golden [18:13]: "Find somebody in the company that will actually measure and tell me the truth."

Mike Linton [19:45]: "You need to make certain you are working very hard to reorient yourself and make sure the opportunity for visibility for the brand becomes paramount."

5. Navigating Rebrands as a CMO

Rebranding Without Overhauling Core Identity: Mike shares his experience with Quad, emphasizing that a rebrand doesn't always necessitate a complete identity overhaul but can involve subtle enhancements that signal evolution.

Mike Linton [26:51]: "A rebrand has to be accepted by the brand organism. If the organism does not accept it, it will be rejected."

Consumer and Internal Acceptance: Josh underscores that a successful rebrand is measured not just by external launch activities but by internal buy-in and consumer acceptance.

Josh Golden [28:28]: "The rebrand isn't done until the consumer accepts it and the company accepts it."

Case Study – Jaguar: They discuss Jaguar's recent rebrand, analyzing its reception and the importance of aligning rebranding efforts with longstanding brand values.

6. Practical Advice – Emphasizing Gratitude

The Role of Gratitude in Leadership: In the episode's closing segment, Mike highlights the essential role of gratitude in fostering a positive organizational culture and effective leadership.

Mike Linton [31:10]: "Having and displaying gratitude is important because we are all in service to the brands we work for and the teams we work with."

Hiring Practices: He shares his stringent hiring criteria, where the absence of a simple thank-you note can disqualify a candidate, illustrating his commitment to a culture of appreciation.

Mike Linton [30:48]: "I literally do not hire people if they don't send a follow-up note. If someone does not send me a note to thank me for my time, it's a hard no."

Conclusion

This episode of CMO Confidential offers a profound exploration of the delicate balance CMOs must maintain between showing vulnerability and cultivating a personal brand. Through candid discussions and personal anecdotes, Mike Linton and Josh Golden provide valuable insights into effective leadership strategies, rebranding tactics, and the foundational role of gratitude in building a cohesive and motivated team. Listeners gain a comprehensive understanding of how to navigate the complexities of high-level marketing roles while fostering authentic and resilient leadership.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

1. On Authenticity:

   "Being authentic and bringing who you are but also saying what you don't know is extraordinarily powerful."
   – Mike Linton [03:51]

2. On Vulnerability Limits:

   "How much vulnerability do you show? Because a lot of people don't want to be in a crisis and have the leader go, 'I have no idea.'"
   – Josh Golden [04:18]

3. On Leadership Balance:

   "If you are overly wishy-washy, people won't want to follow you."
   – Mike Linton [06:31]

4. On Personal Struggles:

   "Being able to be vulnerable like that and express that sort of honesty was extraordinarily powerful."
   – Mike Linton [09:51]

5. On Emotional Responses:

   "You distill the business from the personal reaction because a lot of times people can just try and piss you off in business."
   – Josh Golden [12:20]

6. On Personal Branding:

   "Personal brand is the 'you' part of the marketing role. It's your joie de vivre that transcends your company."
   – Mike Linton [15:38]

7. On Rebranding Success:

   "A rebrand has to be accepted by the brand organism. If the organism does not accept it, it will be rejected."
   – Mike Linton [26:51]

8. On Gratitude:

   "Having and displaying gratitude is important because we are all in service to the brands we work for and the teams we work with."
   – Mike Linton [31:10]

Key Takeaways

• Vulnerability Enhances Trust: Authenticity and vulnerability can strengthen team bonds but must be balanced to maintain leadership effectiveness.

• Personal Branding is Crucial but Covert: Building a personal brand is essential for career growth, yet it should be managed to ensure it complements rather than overshadows the company's brand.

• Strategic Rebranding Requires Alignment: Successful rebrands depend on both internal and external acceptance, aligning with the company's core values and long-term vision.

• Gratitude Fosters Positive Culture: Demonstrating gratitude is fundamental in leadership, influencing team morale and organizational culture positively.

This episode serves as a valuable resource for current and aspiring CMOs, offering practical strategies and cautionary insights into the complex dynamics of leadership, personal branding, and organizational growth.