Podcast Summary: "The Top 5 Mistakes CEOs and Boards Make When Hiring CMOs"

Podcast: CMO Confidential (I Hear Everything Podcast Network)
Host: Mike Linton
Guests: Kate Bullis & David Wiser (ZRG Partners)
Release Date: December 23, 2025

Overview

In this episode, host Mike Linton—former CMO for Best Buy, eBay, Farmers Insurance, and more—sits down with Kate Bullis and David Wiser of ZRG Partners to dissect the top five mistakes CEOs and boards make when hiring Chief Marketing Officers. Bringing decades of executive search and CMO experience, the guests use witty “movie themes” to frame common missteps, share behind-the-scenes stories, and offer advice for both company leaders and CMO candidates on how to better navigate the hiring process.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

CMO Job Market Outlook for 2025

[01:36 - 04:36]

• CMO hiring was flat in 2024 compared to 2023, following post-COVID surges.
• Optimism for 2025: Expected increase in hiring given pro-business administration, lower inflation/capital costs, and renewed emphasis on growth.
• The most growth anticipated among startups and early-stage companies, which suffered most in softer markets.
• Private equity’s return, and an uptick in IPOs and acquisitions, is expected to have “all boats rise” across company sizes.
• Quote:

  "We think all boats are going to rise. Hiring across the board... is going to continue." —Kate Bullis [04:06]

The Top 5 “Bad Movie” Mistakes in CMO Hiring

1. Play It Again, Sam (The Playbook Mistake)

[05:57 - 10:08]

• Definition: Searching for a CMO who has “done this before”—same industry, same size, same playbook.
• Flaw: Overly narrow, assumes all businesses can be run with recycled strategies; lacks innovation or adaptability when the company evolves.
• More common in industries like pharma, where companies demand 30+ years of relevant experience while desiring innovation.
• Advice for Candidates: Ask about the history of the role, KPIs, why the hire is needed.
• Memorable Quote:

  “Playbook, by definition, if it’s already written, it’s not very innovative. It might be innovative to you, but it’s not going to be innovative to the market.” —Mike Linton [10:08]

2. I Want the Orchestra (The Unicorn Problem)

[10:27 - 14:31]

• Definition: CEOs/boards seek a CMO who excels at “every instrument”—brand, digital, data, product, marcoms, PR, etc.—plus, elite credentials and experience.

• “Hands on keyboard” shibboleths signal unrealistic expectations for expertise in every subfield; searches become impossible and miss what matters: leadership and big-picture thinking.

• The right CMO needs to be a conductor, not a one-man band.

• Red Flags: Job specs that are a “checkbox” list; leaders emphasizing background over goals and outcomes.

  Notable Quotes:

  “Even the best orchestra leaders have only played half the instruments...” —David Wiser [10:27]
  “The role of the CMO has become astronomically wide and doesn’t seem to be stopping.” —Kate Bullis [11:32]

3. No, No, Really... It’s a CMO Role (Title Inflation)

[14:47 - 19:12]

• Definition: CMO title applied to a role that is really just a segment of marketing (often demand gen or acquisition).
• Most prevalent in B2B: “When you drill it down, all they want is digital demand gen.”
• Problem: Rubs candidates the wrong way; companies wind up with mismatched expectations if the core need is not truly a CMO’s strategic scope.
• Advice for Candidates: Scrutinize KPIs/dashboards; ask about expectations, product/innovation responsibility; ensure the title matches the work.
• Quote:

  “Let’s make sure the title matches the work, matches the dashboard.” —David Wiser [18:11]

4. Stay in Your Lane (The Order-Taker CMO)

[19:12 - 22:12]

• Definition: CMO is hired to just “do marketing” as dictated—no cross-functional influence, no seat at the strategy table, no input on product.
• Especially common in sales or product-driven organizations.
• For Candidates: Interview peers, ask how other functions expect to work together, look for signs of strategic versus reactive expectations.
• Memorable Points:

  “The company sees marketing as an activity center: 'We’ll tell you what we need, you do it.'” —Kate Bullis [19:28]
  “This is great for someone happy using three out of ten tools—and not looking to expand their influence.” —David Wiser [21:54]

5. Death By Committee (The Overcrowded Search/Decision)

[22:12 - 25:04]

• Definition: Too many stakeholders (or misaligned stakeholders) are involved in defining, interviewing, and choosing the CMO; alignment is lacking, decisions stall or change direction suddenly.
• Problem escalates if job definition isn’t solid up front; leads to endless revisions and late-inning vetoes.
• Quote:

  “It’s so important to empower the right people—and not so many that the decision can never be made.” —Kate Bullis [23:21]

• Advice: CEO must drive definition and enforce alignment ahead of the search; more than 7–8 stakeholders is a big red flag.

Why Do “Bad Movies” Still Happen?

[25:04 - 27:54]

• Urgency over diligence: Companies rush to fill an open CMO seat without aligning expectations or fully scoping the role.
• Lack of clarity: Stakeholders have competing or undefined ideas about what a CMO should do; need for CEO to corral and define.
• Quote:

  “So many stakeholders have different ideas… that’s when the power of the CEO must come into play. We need a leader to sit down before going into the market and align on what’s critical.” —Kate Bullis [26:00–27:22]

Bonus “Movie”: Lack of Urgency

[27:54 - 28:41]

• Handled more as a TV episode than a movie, but equally problematic: searches drag on, candidates lose interest, and it signals the CMO isn’t truly valued.
• Quote:

  “Rest assured, if you’re interested in Stephanie or Steven, there’s three other companies out there chasing them. You have to make this a priority.” —David Wiser [27:58]

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “This isn’t fetch, this is search.” —Kate Bullis [23:17] (A playful distinction: fetching is requesting a clone of a past performer, search is strategic and thoughtful.)
• Mike Linton’s “ultimate disaster movie”:

  “The first four movies all rolled into death by committee… That would be like Titanic meets Into Thin Air.” [27:22]

• Funny stories:
  • A candidate’s child jumping naked on the bed during a Zoom interview [29:10], and a “deer antlers growing out of a candidate’s head” Zoom mishap [29:48].

Practical Advice for Boards, CEOs, and Candidates

For Companies:

• Align your CMO search with the business's three-year vision, not just immediate pain points or a wish-list of skillsets. [31:44]
• Involve only the necessary stakeholders; CEO must demand alignment before starting search.
• Focus the role’s dashboard and KPIs—ensure they reflect what the job truly is.

For Candidates:

• Probe for real expectations: ask about dashboards, how success is measured, why the hire is needed now, and the true scope of influence.
• Interview future peers to sense whether marketing’s role is strategic or reactive.

Kate Bullis’s wrap-up:

“Focus your CMO search on what the business needs given the goals of the business for the next three years… this is not fetch… There are a lot of ways to solve that problem.” [31:44]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• CMO job market outlook for 2025: [01:36–04:36]
• Mistake 1, Play It Again, Sam: [05:57–10:08]
• Mistake 2, I Want the Orchestra: [10:27–14:31]
• Mistake 3, No, Really, It’s a CMO Role: [14:47–19:12]
• Mistake 4, Stay in Your Lane: [19:12–22:12]
• Mistake 5, Death By Committee: [22:12–25:04]
• Why do bad movies happen?: [25:04–27:54]
• Bonus - Lack of Urgency: [27:54–28:41]
• Funny stories: [29:10–30:14]
• Practical search advice: [30:21–31:44]

Final Thoughts

This lively and candid episode is a must-listen for any executive or aspiring CMO. With real-world examples, memorable frameworks (“movie” themes), and actionable advice, Mike Linton, Kate Bullis, and David Wiser offer a blueprint for smarter, more successful CMO hiring—reminding listeners to diagnose, align, and prioritize before ever rolling the credits on a new marketing leader.

For more, find CMO Confidential on all major platforms and listen to the referenced past episodes for further insight into marketing leadership.