Podcast Summary: CMO Confidential

Episode: The Top Mistakes CMOs Make During the Interview Process
Host: Mike Linton
Guests: Kate Bullis & David Wiser (ZRG Partners)
Date: September 23, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode explores the most common (and often costly) mistakes Chief Marketing Officers (CMOs) make during the job interview process. Veteran executive search leaders Kate Bullis and David Wiser of ZRG Partners join host Mike Linton to discuss why marketing leaders—despite being analytical and strategic—often underperform as job candidates. Using a sports analogy (“pre‑game, game time, post‑game”), the episode delivers practical advice for CMOs on self-awareness, preparation, interview performance, and negotiation, with candid stories from the search trenches.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

State of the 2025 CMO Job Market

[03:09–06:34]

• AI dominates conversation and transformation is either an existential threat or huge opportunity.
• Strong demand for executive search, especially at large enterprises undergoing AI shifts and at AI-native startups. Middle-market tech firms lag due to the resource demands of transformation.
  • “Companies that are being born and the massive companies that are transforming—that’s where the bulk of the opportunity in new leadership roles is happening. The middle…don’t have necessarily the bulk and the wherewithal to make it.” – Kate Bullis [05:37]

Pre-Game: Preparation Mistakes

[07:24–17:07]

Mistake 1: Not Knowing Thyself

• Many candidates fail to truly analyze and articulate their career patterns and value:
  • Are you a builder, optimizer, or fixer?
  • What size or stage company is your “sweet spot”?
  • What customer types or go-to-market models do you excel at (SMB vs. enterprise, etc.)?
• Quote: “If you really understand your own strengths, you really help yourself in essentially product market fit. So think about yourself as a product in the market.” – Kate Bullis [07:27]
• The majority lack self-awareness or mistake wishful thinking for actual, demonstrated strengths.

Mistake 2: No “Shopping List”

• Most candidates do not objectively list or rank what they want in their next role (industry, company size, comp, location, reporting structure, etc.).
  • Quote: “Different things are important to different people… Step number one is separate the opportunity and just list for yourself what’s most important to you.” – David Wiser [12:53]
• Failing to do this leads candidates to be swayed by “shiny objects” and make poor-fit decisions.

If You’re Not Prepared

• Search partners may try to help if the lack of prep is paired with self-awareness and humility, but “preparation gap” can get candidates cut if it signals trouble.

Game Time: Interview Execution Mistakes

[17:07–25:30]

Mistake 1: Playbooking

• Candidates assume that what worked before will just drop into the new role (“airlifting the playbook”).
  • Quote: “Every playbook must be invented anew in every company… If you bring a playbook mentality, you bring one of assumption. And we know where assuming brings us.” – Kate Bullis [17:40]
• Organizations now reject “playbook” mentality more than ever (especially in B2B).

Mistake 2: Product Pushing

• Talking only about their own achievements and experience (“I did this, I built that”) instead of being curious and engaging about the company’s needs.
  • Example: Bringing a literal portfolio binder to an interview—unasked.
  • “You're missing the opportunity to be curious and really engage in a conversation…” – Kate Bullis [20:10]
• Rooted in overselling and lack of awareness.

Mistake 3: Disengagement

• Lack of research or energy in the interview. Asking questions easily answerable from public info signals laziness/disinterest.
  • Quote: “Do your homework. Bring some energy. … A lot of people lose the game in the questions that they ask or don't ask.” – David Wiser [22:14]
• Best approach: Show you’ve thought specifically about this company and ask questions with a hypothesis/opinion.

The Most Common Mistake: Talking Too Much

[26:08–27:07]

• Candidates who ramble lose attention and leave a poor impression.
  • “The average attention span for an adult is 20 to 30 seconds… After 30 seconds, you start sounding like that teacher on the Peanuts cartoon.” – David Wiser [26:18]

Post-Game: After the Interview Mistakes

[27:41–39:58]

Scenario 1: You Get the Offer…And Blow the Negotiation

• Overly aggressive or disorganized negotiation can turn off the company and get the offer rescinded, or sour the relationship before starting.
  • “If something is very important to you, that’s fair, but you want to share it early and be really transparent…” – Kate Bullis [27:41]
  • One “ask” is standard; going back with a laundry list is a red flag.

Scenario 2: You Get the Offer but Decline It (the Wrong Way)

• Never let an offer get to paper if you seriously foresee declining. Air out issues beforehand.
  • Quote: “Frankly, you should never turn down a written offer… That’s the equivalent of me getting down on one knee, holding out the ring… and she says no.” – David Wiser [32:48]
• Turning down written offers, especially after board-level approvals, may land you on a “blacklist.”
  • “In 31 years, I've accumulated 187 names on my blacklist.” – David Wiser [34:06]

Scenario 3: You Lose Out—Make It Worse with Poor Behavior

• Some candidates sour or “ghost” their contacts, burning bridges after not getting the job.
  • Quote: “You have invested a lot of time and so has this company in getting to know each other… How you leave the situation gracefully is everything.” – Kate Bullis [35:49]
• The gracious, professional runner-up is often called back when a first choice fails or for future opportunities.

Memorable Quotes & Practical Advice

On Change Leadership

• “Any opportunity that a CMO is considering is first and foremost an opportunity to lead change… Change leadership first. Marketing second.” – Kate Bullis [41:08]

On Interview Performance

• “Most people stretch a 30 second answer into two minutes and after 30 seconds, you start sounding like that teacher on the Peanuts cartoon.” – David Wiser [26:18]
• “Be the executive that says, ‘I didn’t lose here. I gained—relationships, insight and knowledge.’” – Kate Bullis [38:48]

On Video Interviews (Funny Story)

• “He stands up, he’s got boxer shorts on, very nice collared shirt, but boxer shorts, leaves his desk, comes back… Maybe we just do a phone call.” – David Wiser [42:28]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Job Market Overview: [03:09–06:34]
• Preparation Mistakes: [07:24–17:07]
• Interview/Execution Mistakes: [17:07–25:30]
• Talking Too Much (Most Common Mistake): [26:08–27:07]
• Post-Game/Negotiation: [27:41–39:58]
• Practical & Funny Advice: [40:43–43:19]

Summary Table: Top Mistakes

| Stage | Mistake | Solution / Advice | |---------------|-------------------------------|----------------------------------------| | Pre-Game | Lack of self-awareness | Perform an honest career “market analysis”; recognize your build/optimize/fix fit. | | Pre-Game | No “shopping list” | Rank your priorities for your next job; weigh offers accordingly. | | Game Time | Playbooking | Don’t assume your old “playbook” is a fit—be present, adaptable. | | Game Time | Product pushing | Be curious, engage, don’t just pitch your resume. | | Game Time | Disengagement/lack of prep | Research deeply; demonstrate you care about this company. | | Game Time | Talking/running too long | Keep answers tight—20‑30 seconds per response! | | Post-Game | Over-negotiation or secrecy | Be open, prioritize asks, don’t play games—protect relationships. | | Post-Game | Declining after written offer | Air out issues early—never surprise with a no. | | Post-Game | Poor “grace in loss” | Leave doors open, maintain relationships, be professional. |

Final Takeaways

CMO job hunts are high-stakes, high-visibility, and fraught with pitfalls even for seasoned executives. Self-awareness, preparation, humility, and authentic engagement are the differentiators. A little self-reflection, clear communication, and grace go a long way—before, during, and after the process.

Listen to the full episode for more stories and actionable advice!