Podcast
CMO Therapy
Hosted by lucy.heavens · EN
Welcome to CMO Therapy, a podcast to help you navigate through your marketing journey because let me tell you, I get it-being a marketing leader is no walk in the park. In each episode we dive headfirst into the world of marketing, where uncertainty, tight budgets and fierce competition are just the beginning of the rollercoaster ride.
Look, the title might include the word therapy, but we're not just talking about challenges-we're tackling them head on!
If you're a chief marketing officer or a marketing lead, looking to up your game, then I'm so glad you've found us!
Music by Filo Starquez
10episodes
Episodes
Newest firstAll episodes
Brand Voice, Not a Bot Voice
1w ago00:35:20Tap to summarizeAI has well and truly landed in marketing teams, and yes, it can be brilliant. It can speed things up, sharpen ideas and help us get more from the content we already have. But it has also unleashed a wave of bland, samey, beige content that sounds suspiciously like… everyone else.In this episode of CMO Therapy, Lucy is joined by Wade Coleman, Head of Brand and Content Strategy at Fiserv, to talk about the AI content identity crisis facing marketing leaders right now. They get into why so much AI-generated content feels soulless, where AI is genuinely useful, where it needs a firm “absolutely not” and why strong brand voice, audience understanding and human judgement matter more than ever.As Wade puts it: “ChatGPT is a shortcut to sounding like everyone else.”If you’re a CMO or marketing leader trying to use AI without quietly murdering your brand voice, this one’s for you.Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence
Transcribe →The messy reality of the modern CMO
3w ago00:39:06Tap to summarizeIn this episode of CMO Therapy, Lucy meets with the brilliant Sinead Willis for a very honest conversation about the messy reality of the modern CMO. Because sometimes the role you’re sold in the interview process and the role you actually walk into are two very different things.Together, they explore why so many senior marketers end up in businesses that say they want strategic marketing leadership, but don’t actually create the conditions for it to work. They get into red flags, due diligence, broken systems, moving goalposts, and the difference between a role that stretches you and one that slowly grinds you down.They also unpack why communication matters so much at this level, because being good at marketing is one thing, but being able to hold your own in rooms full of strong opinions is another.As Sinead puts it, “They’re not stretching, they’re basically eroding.”If that hits a nerve, this episode is for you.Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence
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Big Brand Muscle, Startup Hustle
Apr 700:34:04Tap to summarizeBeing a marketing leader in a big brand is one thing… but stepping into a startup? That’s a completely different sport. In this episode of CMO Therapy, Lucy is joined by Sharon Hergarty, who’s done both - from global giants like Samsung and the BBC to getting properly hands-on as a fractional CMO in a startup where you’re essentially the entire marketing function.Together they unpack what actually transfers (the principles), what needs to be unlearned (hello, endless process and over-engineering) and why decision-making suddenly feels a lot more personal when there’s nowhere to hide. They also get into the reality of building without infrastructure, staying focused when everything feels urgent and how your network becomes your secret weapon when the “team” is… well… you.As Sharon puts it,“You can’t optimise yourself into oblivion… sometimes you’ve just got to try stuff and see what happens.”If you’re navigating the shift between big brand muscle and startup hustle, this episode is packed with honest, practical insights you’ll actually use.Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence
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Why tone of voice still wins, even in the age of AI
Mar 2400:41:58Tap to summarizeIn this episode of CMO Therapy, Lucy sits down with the brilliant Mel Barfield, Managing Partner and Brand Voice Lead at Copy or Die, to talk about why tone of voice still matters massively… especially now AI can produce polished content in seconds.We get into why tone of voice is not just a nice little brand exercise or a page buried in the guidelines, but a real leadership choice that shapes trust, consistency and how your business actually shows up. Mel shares why so many brands end up sounding the same, where tone-of-voice work usually falls apart and why implementation matters just as much as the strategy itself.We also dig into the growing tension between speed and quality in the age of AI. How do you use AI without letting your brand voice get replaced by bland, robotic beige-ness?As Mel puts it: “The language that you use is so important. It can make trust and it can break trust.”If you care about brand, credibility and sounding like an actual human, this one’s for you.Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence
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Founder knows best? Navigating trust, tension and truth at the top
Mar 1000:34:22Tap to summarizeIn this episode of CMO Therapy, Lucy is joined by Lucas Bergmans (ex Wise, Moneysupermarket, Cazoo, Heineken, Britvic) to get into one of the most important and most misunderstood relationships in B2B marketing: the one between the CMO and the founder or CEO. It can be energising, messy, brilliant and maddening in equal measure and when it works, it changes everything.Together, they unpack the patterns marketing leaders come up against time and time again in founder-led businesses: big vision, strong opinions, fast decisions, deep customer instinct and the occasional tension over who really knows best when it comes to marketing. They talk about how trust gets built, how CMOs can bring structure without killing momentum, when to challenge, when to lean in and why credibility at the top comes from commercial thinking, customer understanding and evidence, not just good ideas.As Lucas says, “data takes opinions off the table” and in these relationships, that matters. Because the fastest way to move from friction to progress is getting out of opinion tennis and into something real.
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Out of sight, out of mind? The real challenge of retention
Feb 2400:34:52Tap to summarizeIn this episode of CMO Therapy, Lucy sits down with expert marketing leader and Brand & Marketing Director at Zego, Ingrid Sierra, to unpack one of the toughest challenges in B2B marketing: what really happens after the contract is signed.Because let’s be honest… once the high-fives fade and onboarding is done, most customers aren’t thinking about you at all.So why is retention so hard, especially in industries where interaction is low and pricing often wins the deal? And why won’t loyalty schemes and “just checking in” emails save you?Lucy and Ingrid dive into the messy middle between onboarding and renewal, from NPS drop-offs and usage gaps to gamification, trust-building and showing up in the moments that actually matter.As Ingrid puts it: “If they choose you because of pricing, you need to make sure that at renewal they actually choose you for the right reasons.”If you care about churn, growth and earning the right to show up when there’s no obvious reason to, you'll love this episode.Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence
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From dinosaurs to birds: Helping big brands stay relevant in a world obsessed with new
Feb 1000:44:14Tap to summarizeWhat does it really take for a 160-year-old brand to stay relevant in a world obsessed with shiny new fintechs, challenger banks and AI-powered everything?In this episode of CMO Therapy, I’m joined by Joe Goldberg, Head of Brand Strategy at Santander UK, for a no-fluff, deeply human conversation about how legacy brands evolve without losing their soul.We dig into why modern banking isn’t about shouting “we’re digital” - it’s about designing emotional experiences that make people feel confident, included and in control of their money. Joe unpacks the real battle for salience in an AI-driven future, why most brands misunderstand loyalty and how trust, tone and honesty matter more than ever when your product is invisible.There’s also a brilliant deep dive into experiential brand design, the role of fame (hello Ant & Dec), and why anxiety (not apathy) is the real enemy of modern financial services.As Joe puts it:“If you’re not salient, if people don’t know you exist, you’re dead.”If you’re a CMO navigating growth, relevance and emotional connection in a complex category… this one’s unmissable.Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence
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Your customers are doing the marketing. Are you letting them?
Jan 2700:45:07Tap to summarizeIn this episode of CMO Therapy, I’m joined by Paul Taylor who held senior marketing leadership roles at firms like Swift and SS&C, to unpack one of the most misunderstood (and under-invested) growth levers in B2B: customer advocacy.We get brutally honest about why advocacy so often gets reduced to logo slides, rushed case studies and last-minute favours for sales and why that mindset is costing marketing teams serious pipeline. Paul shares a much smarter way to think about advocacy, as a flywheel, not a campaign. When it's built on trust and peer-to-peer influence, customers will be talking about you when you’re not in the room. Love that!We dig into how to design advocacy that feels human (not needy - we've all been there), how to spot real advocates hiding in plain sight, how to scale it without killing authenticity and how CMOs can actually measure impact beyond vanity metrics.As Paul puts it:“Good advocacy isn’t PR. It’s insurance for your brand in a world where trust is collapsing.”If you want advocacy to drive growth, not just decorate your website, this one’s a must-listen.Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence
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When 2 chiefs are better than 1: the rise of the power couple
Jan 1300:41:46Tap to summarizeIn this episode of CMO Therapy, I sit down with Michelle to talk about one of the most misunderstood (and quietly tense) relationships in the C-suite: the Chief Marketing Officer and the Chief Commercial Officer.This conversation was sparked by a debate that really stuck with me about where marketing should sit in an organisation, especially in fast-growing or acquisition-heavy businesses. There’s a growing assumption that marketing should automatically roll into commercial and Michelle articulates, brilliantly, why that can be a problem. As she puts it, “the Chief Commercial Officer drives revenue today. The Chief Marketing Officer builds revenue for tomorrow.” That distinction alone stopped me in my tracks.We dig into why marketing so often becomes sales support, what happens when there’s no CMO voice at the table and what “good” actually looks like when commercial and marketing work in true partnership. If you’re a CMO or marketing leader trying to move from lead factory to long-term growth engine, you’ll get a lot from this one.Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence
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The two speed CMO
Dec 900:32:21Tap to summarizeEver been asked “So… are you more brand or demand?” and felt your soul leave your body? Same. In this episode of CMO Therapy, I sit down with the brilliant Smita Gupta to blow up that false choice and dig into what she calls the two-speed CMO – the marketer who can deliver this quarter and build compounding growth for next year.We get into why “brand vs demand” is the wrong question, how to stop marketing becoming a glorified service desk for sales and what it really looks like to run your function like an investment portfolio, balancing pipeline now, conversion improvement and future demand creation.Smita shares the dashboards, metrics and language that actually land with CEOs, CFOs and CROs, plus how to position marketing as a growth engine, not a cost centre.When it comes to demand and brand, as Smita puts it “If you only do one, you either look busy or look brilliant. Neither guarantees revenue.”Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence
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