A Massive Charge for Ford, and the CEO of a Biotech Up Nearly 500% this Year 12/15/25

Summary

Podcast Summary: CNBC Fast Money

Episode: A Massive Charge for Ford, and the CEO of a Biotech Up Nearly 500% this Year
Date: December 15, 2025
Host: Melissa Lee
Guests: Tim Seymour, Karen Feinerman, Dan Nathan, Guy Adami

Overview

This episode of CNBC’s Fast Money tackled pivotal business and investing developments, including Ford’s gigantic $19.5 billion EV write-down and strategic pivot to hybrids, crypto’s recent sell-off, tech under pressure as Oracle falters, Zillow’s stock hit from new Google competition, insights into the consumer and holiday spending via Steve Liesman, CIBC’s optimistic but cautious S&P outlook, and an interview with Turns Pharma’s CEO after explosive biotech gains. Actionable commentary was provided on major movers, market sentiment, and sector trends, giving investors deep perspective for year-end positioning.

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1. Ford’s $19.5B Write-down and Strategic Pivot

[00:46–12:04]

Key Discussion Points:

• Ford’s Write-down:

  • Announced a $19.5B write-down mostly on failed EV investments.
    • $12.5B to be taken in 2025, the rest in ‘26/’27 ([01:45], Phil LeBeau).
  • Despite this, Ford raised 2025 EBIT guidance to $7B (was $6–$6.5B).

• Shifting Strategy:

  • Pivot to more hybrids and extended range EVs; “think more hybrids and extended range electric vehicles” ([01:54], Phil).
  • Pure EVs will be smaller, more affordable; F-150 Lightning as a pure EV will end, replaced by extended range variant.

• Customer Trends:

  • Hybrids: +19.4% YoY sales; Internal Combustion Engines: +5.2%; EVs: –7.3% ([03:31], Phil).
  • “The current strategy was not working… Jim Farley saying, we’ve got to pivot and this is how we’re going to do it.” ([04:05], Phil).

• Energy Storage Business:

  • Ford intends to launch an energy storage business leveraging its battery production, inspired by Tesla’s battery storage business. Details TBA ([04:48], Phil).

• Analyst & Desk Reactions:

  • Surprise at the magnitude and timing; shareholder satisfaction with pragmatic pivot.
  • GM considered a stronger bet on valuation and execution ([08:40], Guy).

Notable Quotes:

• Jim Farley (Ford CEO):

  “We evaluated the market and we made the call… It was the right time to listen to the customers.” ([03:17])

• Phil LeBeau (auto industry reporter):

  “The previous strategy was not working. They pivoted towards hybrids hard about a year and a half ago and that has been very successful.” ([06:02])

• Tim Seymour:

  “ROI at Ford is job number one… I think the company’s taken aggressive steps in the last couple of years to restructure, to let go of businesses that are not profitable.” ([09:37])

---

2. Cryptocurrency: Selloff, Structural Questions, and Outlook

[12:04–16:49]

Key Discussion Points:

• Bitcoin’s Slide:

  • Bitcoin down over 5% this month, sliding back to $85,000 amid broad crypto weakness.
  • Key names like Strategy and Coinbase among the day’s biggest losers ([12:04]).

• Possible Drivers:

  • Overhang from Strategy’s potential exclusion from MSCI indices.
  • Desk mixed on whether pressure is technical, systematic, or due to changing market structure ([12:36]).

• Broader Crypto Ecosystem:

  • Skepticism regarding “treasury companies” holding bitcoin on corporate balance sheets versus ETFs.
  • Debated whether leverage and sell-offs could lead to a crypto “FTX moment.”
    • “If you were selling stock, you’re selling debt, you’re buying the underlying and then… you have to turn around and actually sell the thing… it kind of blows a hole into the whole strategy.” ([14:04], Dan Nathan)

• Long-term Adoption:

  • Institutional adoption progressing, tokenization/remittance use cases still viewed as viable for blockchain ([15:31], Tim Seymour).

Notable Quotes:

• Karen Feinerman:

  “That’s a little… I’m long, so it’s a little bit distressing. I’m not even quite sure what it’s about exactly… I’m not really sure, but I’m staying long.” ([12:36])

• Tim Seymour:

  “What I am sure about is that global settlements, tokenization, digitization of assets is alive and well and… are here forever. And that’s a reason to belong some of these assets.” ([15:31])

---

3. Zillow Versus Google: Disruption Fears

[19:28–21:47]

Key Discussion Points:

• Stock Drop:

  • Zillow stock fell 8% after Google started testing property listings in search results.

• Viability of Threat:

  • Past attempts by tech giants to disrupt entrenched verticals (ticketing, dating) cited as examples of overblown fears.
  • Regulatory and MLS rules (e.g., state laws against Google aggregating listings directly) may insulate Zillow ([20:58]).

• Valuation and Market Overreaction:

  • Multiple analysts (e.g., Jefferies) suggest market reacted too quickly without deep diligence.

Notable Quotes:

• Karen Feinerman:

  “I think it’s probably a lot harder than it seems. Right. There’s an enormous web of agents… So I’m not happy about it, but I think it’s going to be difficult to do. We’ll see how it evolves.” ([20:34])

---

4. Oracle and AI: Sentiment Shift, China, and Tech Under Pressure

[23:38–26:41]

Key Discussion Points:

• Stock Decline Despite Bullish Citi Call:

  • Questions on data center build-out pace and profitability, with investor skepticism lingering despite company denials ([24:14], Dan Nathan).

• Connection to China Tech:

  • AI optimism giving way to China-specific fundamentals—Oracle, Alibaba, Baidu all caught in the downdraft.

• Sentiment:

  • Consensus that recent AI valuation expansion has left less margin for error; upcoming earnings will be pivotal ([25:32], [26:41]).

---

5. Market Outlook & Consumer: Spending Data and 2026 Targets

[27:19–34:35]

Key Discussion Points:

• Consumer Under Pressure:

  • CNBC Survey: 41% plan to spend less this holiday season, inflation cited as top reason.
  • Goods inflation persists and may impact retailers’ margins; consumer behavior could force retailer discounting ([27:19], Steve Liesman).

• 2026 Preview:

  • CIBC’s Chris Harvey sees a 9% S&P 500 gain (target: 7,450), but expects a pullback and rotation to quality, value, and lower risk ([29:49]).

• Sector Rotation:

  • Mega-cap tech still has some winners, but broader opportunity in MedTech, software, and financials.
  • Financials “not cheap,” but have strong fundamentals and possible deregulatory tailwinds ([33:15]).

Notable Quotes:

• Chris Harvey (CIBC):

  “Risk at this point in time, it’s just too expensive. You’re not getting paid for it… There needs to be a repricing of risk.” ([30:20])

• Steve Liesman:

  “This affordability issue looks to be a significant part of what’s driving the holiday shopping season, both in people’s minds, but really at the checkout counter.” ([28:33])

---

6. Turns Pharmaceuticals: Biotech’s Big Winner and Clinical Promise

[35:46–40:18]

Key Discussion Points:

• Stock Surge:

  • Turns Pharmaceuticals up nearly 700% YTD, leading the Biotech ETF ([35:46]).

• Breakthrough Drug:

  • Clinical data: New drug for chronic myeloid leukemia (CML) delivered a 75% major molecular response in heavily pre-treated patients ([36:32]).

• Market Potential:

  • Best current CML drug (Novartis) projects to $4B in peak sales; Turns’ product seen as possible larger opportunity due to better efficacy ([38:14], Amy Burrows).

• Pipeline/Funding:

  • Recent $750M offering funds pivotal studies; primary focus is bringing this candidate to market.

Notable Quotes:

• Amy Burrows (Turns CEO):

  “This is really meaningful for people who potentially are running out of options and who have been difficult to treat. And it bodes very well as we move into frontline patients and bring this to market.” ([36:46])

• Tim Seymour on Biotech:

  “I think there are exciting oncology plays out there that are kind of bulge bracket plays people are not playing in.” ([40:18])

---

7. Transports: FedEx, Delta & the Consumer

[41:44–43:49]

Key Discussion Points:

• FedEx Earnings Preview:

  • Earnings on deck; cost cuts, demand recovery, run in stock cited by the desk as signals of renewed strength.

• Broader Transports:

  • Airline/travel stocks at or near 52-week highs, indicating surprising consumer resilience via travel spending, if not retail ([43:31], Guy Adami).

• Other Picks:

  • Delta (margin story) and UPS both attract positive desk attention for valuation and business model improvements.

---

8. Final Trades

[44:06–44:48]

• Tim Seymour: J&J—diversified with consumer, MedTech, and oncology ([44:12]).
• Karen Feinerman: “I like the whole big pharma space… Good place to hide in lower PE if you like Novo.” ([44:18])
• Dan Nathan & Guy Adami: Hurts (HTZ) may be overdone on the downside; Uber also mentioned ([44:28])
• Bristol Myers (BMY) highlighted for additional exposure ([44:45], Guy).

---

Notable Quotes & Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|-----------------|-------| | 03:17 | Jim Farley | “We evaluated the market and we made the call… It was the right time to listen to the customers.” | | 09:37 | Tim Seymour | “ROI at Ford is job number one… aggressive steps in the last couple of years to restructure.” | | 12:36 | Karen Feinerman | “That’s a little… I’m long, so it’s a little bit distressing… I’m staying long.” | | 15:31 | Tim Seymour | “Tokenization, digitization of assets… are here forever. And that’s a reason to own some of these assets.” | | 20:34 | Karen Feinerman | “I think it’s probably a lot harder than it seems. Right. There’s an enormous web of agents…” | | 30:20 | Chris Harvey | “At this point in time, risk is just too expensive. You’re not getting paid for it.” | | 36:46 | Amy Burrows | “This is really meaningful for people who potentially are running out of options and who have been difficult to treat.” |

---

Conclusion

This Fast Money episode confronted the year’s crucial market pivots: Ford’s EV about-face and financial risks, the hard reset in crypto and tech, and new benchmarks for biotech and transports. The panel emphasized disciplined risk-taking, careful stock selection for 2026, and willingness to pivot when core strategies falter—echoed by Ford and Turns Pharma alike. For investors, the actionable takeaways were a heightened focus on valuation, thematic adaptability, and anticipation of continued sector rotation into the new year.

Transcript

[A]

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[C]

The heart of New York City's Times Square. This is fast money. Here's what's on tap tonight. A massive write down at Ford. The automaker announcing a more than $19 billion charge on what had once been a key part of its business. The details in the trade in the stock coming up. And crypto crumbles. Bitco falling back into the 85k range. What's behind the move lower and can the token rebound in the new year? Plus, Oracle drops despite a bullish Citi call, the new competition that has shares of Zillow sinking today and turns Pharma down today but up a whopping 485% just this quarter. We'll talk to the CEO about its latest cancer drug trials and what's to come in the new year. I'm Melissa Lee comes to you live from Studio B at the nasdaq. On the desk tonight, Tim Seymour, Karen Feinerman, Dan Nathan and Guy Adami. We start off with that breaking news on Ford. Shares of the automaker are higher, just slightly less than a percent right now, even after the company announced it would take a massive 19 and a half billion dollar charge to write down its EV investments. The company also raising guidance for the current fiscal year. Let's get to Philippo, who's got all the details on this. Hey, Phil.

[D]

Hey, Melissa. That's one of the largest impairment charges I've ever seen, not just in the auto industry but in corporate America. $19.5 billion. As you take a look at shares of Forward. Yes, after hours, it did move higher in part because the company has outlined what it believes is a strategy that will work. We'll talk about that in a little bit. Of that 19.5 billion in special charges, 12.5 billion will be taken in 2025. The remainder spread out in 2026, 2027. They are also at the same time raising their 2025 EBIT guide to $7 billion. It was previously 6 to $6.5 billion. So there is an increase in its guidance when it comes to 25 EBIT guidance. Now let's take a look at what the new strategy is. Ford says it will be shifting gears. Think more hybrids and extended range electric vehicles. So they're going to expand their hybrid models. They're going to be adding these extended range EVs. Think of this as generators that will then power the motors and you have an extended range there. So it's not pure electric vehicles, future EVs. And they will still make pure electric vehicles. They will be smaller models. And by 2030, Ford believes that 50% of its global sales will be hybrids, E rev and EVs. Why the change? Now here's Jim Farley talking to his last hour on the closing bell.

[E]

The very high end EVs, the 50.

[A]

70, $80,000 vehicles, they just weren't selling.

[E]

And we had planned a full EV.

[A]

Lineup, but we also have hybrids. And we learned a lot about the.

[E]

Market and we think it was the.

[A]

Right time to listen to the customers. We evaluated the market and we made the call.

[D]

And there's no doubt that the customers have been speaking not just at Ford, but for all automakers. They want hybrids. Look at the sales year today for Ford and it's number three in hybrids and behind Toyota and Hyundai. Honda is also strong in that market as well. Hybrids, 19.4%. Sales increased this year. Internal combustion engine vehicles, they're still in demand, up 5.2% compared to last year. But look at EVs down 7.3%. And by the way, as you take a look at shares of Ford, EVs in November were down 60%. The current strategy was not working. And this was basically Jim Farley saying, we've got to pivot and this is how we're going to do it. And part of that is that the F150 Lightning, the pure electric version, it's going away. It will be replaced. The new F150 Lightning will be an extended range electric vehicle. And again, Melissa, extended range is really what you're going to see. A number of automakers, not just here in the US but around the world, pivot to because the belief is that consumers will say, you know what? I like this. I can get more mileage and I can have a vehicle that can give me the performance that, that I need more than what I would get with a standard internal combustion engine vehicle.

[C]

What is the energy storage business Phil, and how different is it versus what they have on the market currently?

[D]

Well, they don't really have an energy storage business. This is Ford saying we are still going to have battery production here in the United States. And as long as we're going to have that battery production, we know that there's a market out there for energy storage. And earlier today there were Ford executives briefing me and other reporters about the new business. They still haven't outlined exactly where they expect to sell those battery storage units, but they have seen what's happening. And you know this, Melissa. You look at the Tesla numbers, you look at other companies that have said battery storage is where it's at. Ford believes it should take advantage of that. It's going to manufacture these batteries. So why not open up an energy storage business?

[C]

You guys have questions? I mean, I don't know what you.

[A]

Think of the reaction, I guess. And is Phil still with us? Because I'm always careful he's with incorporate.

[C]

Him in the conversation.

[A]

You know, great having you here, Phil. My sense is how much are you in the analyst community surprised by this? And as much as it's nice to hear Ford talk about roi, that's really a bottom line that's been difficult at Ford for the last 20 years. But it seems like they're a little all over the map here. I'm happy to hear this. As a shareholder in the medium term, I just don't really know what predicated it in the short term.

[D]

Well, first of all, their EV strategy, the current EV portfolio, it was not going to work with the new lack of federal incentives. And you saw that with the November numbers and the current Lightning, it's not going to sell. It's just not going to sell. You go to central Middle America and you go out, let's say into Wichita, Kansas where I used to live and I used to work. People aren't buying the Lightning there. They want a performance pickup truck. And Ford has known this for some time that the Lightning, the way it was, was not going to work. So for some time they've known that they have to come up with a new strategy. They've been working on this new, what they call their UEV, I believe that's their term for this new EV that they'll be selling by the end of 27 a lower priced electric vehicle, a smaller vehicle. Almost everybody in the industry agrees that's the strategy you want to. Electric vehicles can still sell and they're still in demand if you can target the right customer. And that's somebody who wants to use it in more of a suburban or urban market. And that's what Ford plans to do. And the bottom line is this. The previous strategy was not working. They pivoted towards hybrids hard about a year and a half ago and that has been very successful. And now what they're doing is saying we're not going to give up completely. We know that customers want more fuel economy, so let's pivot even harder towards hybrids, extended range electric vehicles. And then when that EV market for that smaller EV that we're going to roll on 27, we still believe that it'll be there.

[F]

Phil, it's Karen. He did seem to have some positive news though on the underlying business. But what was, to what did he attribute that.

[D]

On the current business, the positive news? Well, they attribute, they attribute that to the fact that look, Ford has been pushing more lower trim models at their dealerships around the country and there's demand there. Now is it enough that you can sit there and say, okay, it's going to make up for all of the problems that we've seen earlier this year? No, but they're much more attuned to the fact that affordability is what the customer is looking for right now. And they've got to do that because you look at the average price for an F150 right now, I think it's $58,000, $59,000 and that's great because it's the number one selling vehicle. But they understand that the consumer is looking for a lower end price point.

[C]

Phil, thank you. Phil LeBeau with the news on Ford. Shares are higher by about a percent in the aftermarket session. But going down the affordability route, while a great one for the American people, means a lot more competition. That is where Tesla is now competing with its lower cost version. A lot of the other automakers are competing with lower cost versions on EVs. How what do you make of this?

[E]

I think on the margins it's positive for Ford, but incrementally so I think it continues to be, I think a good news for GM and we America's favorite game show, as you know, Melissa Lee, is what would you rather? Would you rather? And I think collectively we have said GM over Ford and the stocks tell the story. I mean overlay a GM chart with a Ford chart. I mean this iteration of GMs at an all time high. Ford has bounced, but it's been meandering. I think incrementally positive. Ford, I think you stay long. GM on the back of this I.

[G]

Just mentioned that maybe this is one of the first major moves in the autos since we had the expiration of the federal tax credits at the end of September. And I think it just shows how difficult this business was. And you know, these companies pivoted big time over the last few years. And it might also kind of speak to the fact that maybe here in the US we're kind of saturated with full electric, you know, cars right here there is demand for hybrids and they've been growing over the last couple of years. You can just see the percentages. I think it's about 20% or so right now.

[A]

Yeah, I mean we've seen it and we've seen it from byd. I mean, if you want to look to where the hybrid models working, it's China. So I think this is great news and I think it's also great news as an investor in both Ford and gm. Bigger, much bigger in GM because, you know, I think that their internal combustion engine business was treated as if it was worth nothing. This is where I think that the valuations have to come higher because people are understanding that these automakers. And it's nice to hear. And I get back to roi. ROI at Ford is job number one and that's something that it has not been. So I think the company's taken aggressive steps in the last couple of years to restructure to, to, to let go of businesses that are not profitable. And this restructuring, from a cash perspective, it'll be 25% of the headline number. It's nice to hear that EBIT is growing. They actually had better numbers for 25. While they're dropping this news to say our core business is okay. I think the auto industry overall in the US is ok.

[F]

So I feel like this has been happening in slow motion though Ford for a while, right? This sort of writing was on the wall and, and then once you had tax credits expire and man just wasn't there. So good for them for just recognizing they might get a tax benefit. I don't know from that write off, but good for them, they work.

[C]

And the energy storage piece of the business is interesting. I asked for that question knowing that they don't have an energy storage business because it underscores this notion that Ford is doing something different that is outside its business model currently. And how do you feel as a shareholder with that?

[A]

Well, we know other people are being rewarded for such businesses, so I think it's interesting they can convert EV plants right now to stationary storage and to have it be Something that I think in the short term actually you can actually see a relatively quick turn to a profitable business. So I'm fine with that. I don't know that this is from a technology perspective something that's going to be that difficult. I do think it's about a resource allocation and I think it gets back to what investors are investing in when they're buying car companies. We know with Tesla for a long time it wasn't about the car company and now it's definitely not about the car company, by the way. And you have to give Tesla a little bit of credit here for being profitable in EV land when no one else can even come close to doing it.

[E]

This could not have been an easy decision. I mean, that's an astronomical number. 19 and a half billion dollars. I mean, think about the size of the company overall. But it's a decision had to be made. I think you reward them in terms of the stock, but not to the extent that I think you can continue to reward General Motors.

[C]

All right, meantime, let's get back to crypto. It is back in sell off mode. Bitcoin, Ether, Solana, all taking a hit today. Bitcoin now down more than 5% this month. Closing back in on $85,000. The selling hitting some crypto adjacent names as well. Gemini, Galaxy Digital Strategy and Coinbase among the biggest losers in the space today. Look at that move in strategy down 8%. Obviously it is going to wait to hear what MSCI has to say about inclusion of Dax like strategy into its indices. So that's a major overhang here. But in terms of this slide overall, Karen, what do you make of this?

[F]

That's a little, I'm long, so it's a little bit distressing. I'm not even quite sure what it's about exactly. This strategy thing is interesting. That has, I got to think that's part of it. Right. So is this a, is this a low right here? Might be the low for bitcoin strategy? Yes, for a while, you know, for, I don't know, a year, I guess at least. So I don't know if that's. We talked about a couple of weeks ago when there was pressure on this is, are they coming for it? Right? Are they just shorting it? And so that's weighing on all of them. Maybe, I'm not really sure, but I'm staying long. I haven't really traded around it in years. It's. It's a little bit unsettling, Karen, like, what do you mean?

[A]

Your bitcoin Position. You're not, you're not losing sleep over that year.

[F]

Yes.

[A]

You've got a long term view.

[F]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

It's about 7 bucks away from its 52 week low right now. Strategy, Strategy. So it is close to 155 and change.

[E]

I mean first of all, if you thought last week was a dovish Fed and I don't have a view but I think the treasury bill purchases makes it that then it should, in my opinion it should have been bullish for bitcoin and it's not.

[A]

That's bullish for gold. Gold is $7 and I know you.

[E]

And I think you make the right point. And so if you're a bitcoin holder, I think you got to be a little concerned here. And I'll say it again, I think the market is going to challenge the average price of Strategies holdings which is now 75,000 on the screws and we'll see what happens if and when.

[G]

Somebody's got to remind us that why do these treasury companies exist? I mean you could just buy the underlying asset and now they have all the ETFs. There's like a million ways to get exposure to this. So I just don't understand that. And you know, just to think about this, if you were selling stock, you're selling debt, you're buying the underlying and then all of a sudden you have to turn around and actually sell the thing that you were levering up to buy. I think it kind of blows a hole into the whole strategy. And you look at this thing and you look at some of the other ones, you say, hey, why do they exist? B Is this the FTX of this period? I don't mean to sound hyperbolic but the way the bitcoin is trading and some of these others, and now the.

[C]

Way you mean strategy, is it the.

[G]

Issue or dads pack all the crap together and it sounds pretty bad. And then look at all these companies that have gone public that issue stablecoins or they trade stablecoins and they trade like unholy death. And so you say to yourself, why do we need to own any of this? Why is it existing right now? Because almost every page pillar of the bull case for bitcoin. If you think the dollar is going lower, you think this is being debased or shouldn't it be acting? Well, you just mentioned this Gold X great is trading at all time highs. So I mean, I don't mean to be just a hater. I know there's a lot of folks.

[A]

Out there that's never been your way.

[G]

I know there's a lot of folks out there who believe all of this stuff and have a ball. I think about Ethereum. Is there anything that you guys are using in the defi space or like on the web3? Remember web3 3. That was a big thing.

[C]

Could it just be that there's a lot more leverage.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Trading around bitcoin than in the gold market at this point?

[A]

I'm not here to espouse the virtues of, you know, bitcoin, treasury companies or stablecoins, but I do think we've had these kinds of shakeouts multiple times and we've had these kinds of conversations on this desk and we are here in the middle of institutional adoption which I would just bring it to the most obvious bulge bracket trade which is bitcoin. I'm not concerned that bitcoin is going, you know, I don't know what the number is, guys. 74 might be the right number for some of those reasons. Whether it's down to 52. The. It's. There is a rationale for owning bitcoin. I'm not so sure about some of the other spaces. But what I am sure about is that global settlements tokenization, digitization of assets is alive and well and the block chain in terms of settling both trades and how assets trade globally are here forever. And that's a reason to belong some of these assets.

[F]

I totally agree with that. I mean to your point, you know, when it's working, people think, well, it's just going to continue to work forever. They write issue debt and it trades at a premium to the underlying. And so we just keep buying more and then it works forever until it does. It doesn't. Yeah. I don't think any of us at all have ever been positive on the.

[C]

Structure of strategy or the.

[G]

Interesting to see. So from the highs in 21 to the. The lows in 22 or early 23, Bitcoin sold off 75%. Okay. So if we have something like that and there's a couple of little mishaps, that sort of thing. You know, we've seen Visa, MasterCard, they're moving towards stablecoin or at least try it out. Blackrock, all these guys, it'll be interesting to see what they do if you have a 75% drawdown because you say tokenization is a foregone conclusion. I'm not sure. I mean there's a, there's a gazillion reasons why the existing, you know, financial institutions have not to tokenize us.

[E]

The one overriding concern is I think there's a large swath of sort of the institutions or investors that own not only crypto but this whole AI trade. And if something starts to unravel in one, you could see an unraveling in the other.

[C]

All right, well, look at the corner of your screen. You may have noticed a new CNBC logo today. As part of our evolution, we've removed the NBC peacock. To embrace a distinct identity that aligns with our future as a brand is a small visual update as we continue to deliver the same trusted coverage of markets, business and the economy.

[F]

You like it?

[C]

I do. It's clean, it's modern, it's inclusive, just like us.

[A]

And we're going to be here for the next 19 years. I feel clean and modern.

[C]

Yeah, you do. Yeah.

[A]

Often. Not every day.

[C]

Most times.

[A]

Some days.

[C]

Most of the time. Coming up, Zillow on shaky foundation as Google enters the home listings game. Just happen hot. The competition for clicks could get. That's next. Plus, we're looking into the crystal ball Oracle falling even after a bullish call from Citi. What it will take for this AI name to get back on track right after this.

[B]

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[H]

The McDonald's snack wrap is back.

[A]

You brought it back.

[H]

Ranch snack wrap, Spicy snack wrap.

[A]

You broke the Internet for a snack?

[H]

Snack wrap is back.

[C]

Welcome back to Fast Money Buzzkill on Zillow. Shares of the online real estate Marketplace dropping over 8% after Google started testing new home for sale ads at the top of its search results. The ads include full property details, links to requests, tours, and help contacting agents. They reportedly ran in test markets such as Chicago, Denver and Austin. Do you think this is going to be a problem for Zillow? Karen?

[F]

Well, I'm very sad But I don't know if it will be a problem. I mean, we've seen a couple of times companies like a Google, like an Amazon, when they decided they're going to get into the ticketing business, because that's such a great business, it's ripe for intermediation and it turns out it's actually a harder business to break into than it seems. And we haven't heard that in years now. But there was a time when that was a threat to Ticketmaster. I do remember when Facebook wanted to get into the dating business and that was trouble. And I actually think there might be some successful guy.

[E]

Well, a lot, you know, I'm minding my own business. I'm not doing anything. We had. Tim's friends are here. We were chatting before and then you give me a zinger like that. No, it's fair, though. It's actually pretty funny.

[F]

Well, so for Zillow, I think it's probably a lot harder than it seems. Right. There's an enormous web of agents and certainly there's. I mean, Zillow itself generates tremendous traffic and some of their other brands. So I'm not happy about it, but I think it's going to be difficult to do. We'll see how it evolves. But it's not going to make me sell it today.

[C]

Right. Some analyst reports that I've read regarding this. What happened with, with Alphabet is that there are some state laws that could prevent them having continuing MLS listings. Yes, exactly. And so that. So maybe this is overstated in terms of the eight and a half percent decline.

[A]

I think it is. Jefferies does. I'm looking at a report where Jefferies says, we believe Zillow is relatively insulated. Giving buyer agent advertising requires a large sales force and 80% of Zillow's traffic is direct app. And Google's listings may violate MLS rules. So, I mean, there, there's no question the market reacts first without asking the right questions. And certainly there are people out there that think that's the case.

[E]

But then you force people now to look at valuation, which again, may be reasonable, but it's not cheap. Right. So if there's one, if you're looking for a reason to sell it on, the Ben evaluation has been a concern. This might throw you over the top.

[B]

All right.

[C]

There's a lot more fast money to come. Here's what's coming up next.

[A]

Oracle shares under pressure, even after a bullish call from Citigroup. What does this AI name have to do to reclaim its seemingly long gone gains plus a Q1 correction in 2026. Why our next guest says the path to new highs will be anything but smooth in the new year. And the stocks that could help you weather the storm. You're watching Fast MONEY live from the NASDAQ market site in Times Square. We're back right after this.

[B]

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[A]

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[E]

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[A]

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[C]

Welcome back to FAST Money. Stocks taking up early gains to start the week. The Dow in the S&P 500 just slightly lower in the Nasdaq losing more than half a percent target locking in its longest winning streak since 2023, up nine days in a row, gaining about 8% since Dec. 3. Chinese E Commerce names taking a hit after overnight data pointed to a possible slowdown. November retail sales and industrial production both falling year on year. Meanwhile, Oracle down again today despite a bullish note from Citi analysts saying growth remains on track and that concerns over data center delays are overdone. Oracle shares closing at their lowest level since June.

[G]

Dan yeah, I mean, they denied these reports last week and the stock continued to go down and the CBS continue to get wider. And so, you know, there's obviously a lack of confidence in this story. None of us really know. At some point we definitely had a sense that you're going to see at least a Slowdown in the build out of data centers. You think about all the contracts that have been thrown around, whether it's open AI or others. And I think that today kind of caught on a little bit. If you look at core weave, this is where right back towards those lows of the last few months, it's still above its IPO price. But if you think about a company with a $36 billion market cap and 18 and a half billion dollars in debt, they got a couple billion in cash and they don't make any money, you know you're going to see a push out of profits most likely. And we've been saying this for a long time, you do not want to be a NEO cloud in the environment where there's a pullback in the build out of data centers. And I get it, they have contracts and maybe they're three, maybe they're five years or something like that, but it just makes for a hard environment. The sentiment changed so quickly. It started with OpenAI, then it got to Nvidia, now it got to the hyperscalers. Look at Microsoft, Metta, Amazon, they all massively underperformed the S and P and the nasdaq and they really can't get out of their own way. They're at least down 10% from their highs. So something's going on here. Maybe it's just year end, but again it'll be interesting to see as we get into late January and we start getting results from all these companies.

[C]

We had pronounced declines in Alibaba and Baidu, which are obviously Chinese AI players. How much of it is this AI skepticism infecting that trade versus the data in China?

[A]

I think it's probably more China driven and because my guess is I don't think Alibaba and Baidu were really riding high on the trade. I think they are riding high on a little bit of a China rerating on a valuation trade on a. On a Chinese corporate governance rerating trade with within the government. I just think Oracle is a case of it's now approved me story for a story that historically has been actually, despite the complexity of the business, relatively predictable and relatively easy to see the silver lining that they were always giving you. They weren't even that silver lining. You know, they had a little Danube on Thursday. You know, they were a little.

[G]

So a lot of silver lining.

[A]

A lot of silver lining, yeah.

[F]

Anyway, I agree, I think it's more data than anything else. Just so. I mean the valuation has moved a lot this year obviously, but I still think it's not crazy expensive. So I don't think it's the air coming out of the AI part of the Baba story. I think it's the China part.

[E]

If the crack staff back in EC can put up like a two year chart in Oracle, you will see that the prior all time high was about 185, 190 in December of last year year. That's where we're trading now. So past resistance should theoretically be support. We should definitely. You better hope we stop at these levels here over the next couple of days.

[C]

Coming up, our next guest says the next move higher for the markets might only come after a correction. The bumpy path to gains in the new year right after this. Welcome back to FAST money, the new CNBC All America economic survey showing inflation is taking a bite out of holiday cheer. Cnbc Steve Lisman's got the findings. Hi, Steve.

[H]

Hey, Melissa. Yeah, this looks to be the Christmas where inflation is the red nosed reindeer leading shopping decisions among American consumers in a way we've really not seen before. The CNBC All America economic survey finds 16% saying they're going to spend more, but 41% plan to spend less. That is up six points from last year. The average American who is buying gifts say they will spend about $1,200 this year. That's a 3.9% increase over last year, a pretty decent gain and in line with a lot of holiday spending forecasts out there, 46%, though, of those spending less say the top reason is the high cost of goods. That is up 10 points for 2024. It's followed by what used to be the main reasons, which was being paid less and concern about a weak economy. And this year, the high cost of goods is also the number one reason for the first time among those spending more, up 11 points from last year, beating out the usual top reasons that people are being paid more. Overall, 68% saying gift prices are higher this year compared to last year, with a third saying much higher. Interestingly, that is also true of people who did a lot of their shopping on the Black Friday weekend. So this affordability issue looks to be a significant part of what's driving the holiday shopping season, both in people's minds, Melissa, but really at the checkout counter.

[C]

And that's what we've been hearing in a lot of other polling, Steve, and what we're hearing from various, you know, in various races across the country. Now, I'm wondering how you think about this data and project that out to economic data. The readouts we'll see in future months, if at all.

[H]

Well, you know, it's interesting because the overall inflation number is one that all parts of the economy, so you can have other parts of the economy, for example, housing, perhaps that part of the inflation index is declining. But the goods section, this is telling us that there is, people are perceiving there is inflation in the goods sector and the data does back that up. I am interested, however, very much working for an investment channel in what this means for retail margins. Are retailers able to pass it along? What kind of changes are they making at the selling point there to make people feel like they're not paying more? Or there was a story today about Costco removing some goods where they couldn't really contain the prices. So it's always a back and forth, a cat and mouse game between retailer and consumer. And it may be, we find a lot of times, Melissa, that when prices are high, people will wait, maybe retailers get caught with a lot of inventory, it ends up being discounted and the consumer wins in that case.

[C]

All right, Steve, thanks. Good to see you. Steve Liesman, CIBC Capital Markets releasing its official 2026 price target. The firm expects the S&P 500 to reach 7450. That's a 9% gain from today's close. Chris Harvey is behind the call. He is CIBC's Equity and Portfolio strategy head. It is his first price target with the firm since leaving Wells Fargo Security earlier this year. Chris, welcome. Nice to see you. Congratulations on the new gig.

[I]

I appreciate it.

[C]

But you don't see 9%, just 9%. You see a pullback first.

[I]

That's right. And it has a lot to do with what you were saying before. Risk, at this point in time, it's just too expensive. You're not getting paid for it. And so we think there needs to be a repricing of risk. The other thing is you have a of ton, ton of cat where we think you have a ton of catalysts out there. There's a lot of macro factors that I think people are sleeping on. People think that the transition in the Fed is going to be seamless. It won't be. People are sleeping on usmca. In addition to that, this is the time of year where people begin to guide down expectations. Was a great year, but we have to manage expectations down. All this can really lead up to a repricing of risk. The underlying fundamentals, they're okay, they're fine. But risk is just too expensive this juncture.

[F]

So when you say repricing of Risk. Do you see a reallocation away from some of the things that trade much higher and maybe therefore one perceives as more risky into something with a lower P?

[I]

Yeah, I think. Well, I would say there are some of the risky stocks are ones without a P. Right. If you look in the biotech space and there's some reason for regulation FDA for that to occur because of scarcity value. But at this point I think that's really played out. So can pull people move back into. I think what they're going to move back into is better risk rewards. And yes, they're going to have valuations, they're going to have an A. Just because you have a great story, I don't think that's enough anymore.

[E]

Chris, understanding it's not a straight line to get there. You have to. And Tim is pointing out that Chris Harvey brought you candy and you didn't bring me candy.

[A]

Sorry, keep going.

[E]

You know, and I told you know what I said to Chris earlier. But we'll save that.

[I]

Well, we will save that.

[E]

Your earnings, you must be somewhere between like 325 and 350 in order to have the multiple and sort of where we are now. Is that fair?

[I]

Yeah, that's fair. So it's a little bit more than 325 for 2027. We're expecting a little bit of multiple compression toward the end of the year but yes, we're expecting double digit growth this year and next year but a deceleration.

[G]

Chris, you just mentioned higher quality ones with ps, that sort of thing. It used to be over the last couple of years mega cap tech. Right. That was kind of a defensive trade for all intents and purposes but they also had the growth and they had this tailwind of the sectorship. How do you feel about that?

[I]

There's still some mega cap tech that work, right? If you look at a Microsoft, it's a pretty good risk reward. However, we're finding opportunity right across the board. It's not just mega cap tech anymore. And the other thing is we, we were expecting 7000s and P this year.

[D]

Right.

[I]

One of the reasons we were doing that is because we were expecting mega cap tech to have multiples expand. Not just multiples expand but, but margins expand. That's occurred. Now we're looking for places where the fundamentals can change and that we think that's in the medtech space, we think that's in software, we think that's also in financials. So it's a lot more diverse this.

[A]

Year that was My question, you know, financials, what do you do with the move in financials at this point that in many cases Goldman Sachs, no air stock. I mean it's crazy the move in Goldman, by the way, I believe they deserve it. But there's, there's no question valuations are hardly cheap there.

[I]

They're hardly cheap. What we were saying is we think they need a pause or a pullback Underlying fundamentals. Again, they're fine. I don't think we've seen the whole deregulation play out just yet. Some of the credit card companies will pull back first. Maybe you start looking there. Some of the insurance companies, if you're looking for diversification or low volume is over there. But we really want to see a pullback in some of these really strong performance.

[C]

Chris, great to see you. Thank you.

[E]

No, it's not Chris.

[C]

Harvey didn't get candy. Maybe Tim will share.

[A]

Of course I'll share. No, I know where to come on everybody take but just don't give it to God.

[C]

I wanted to pick up on what Chris is mentioning in terms of financials. Karen, do you think that financials should be actually rerated that we're too hung up on past metrics of valuation because of the element. Because there are, there's a deregulatory backdrop here.

[F]

Well, I do think there's. Those are two really powerful things, particularly the, I mean a bank, when you think about how many people are employed that expense line can be so enormous. So that's a huge, huge potential tailwind regulation. Also some of that is priced in already. And remember these never trade at a market multiple. It's a, it's a very regulated business. But I'm staying long. Even though they're expensive, they moved a lot. I'm staying long.

[E]

Imported Swedish fish.

[C]

Well, they're from Sweden, right? I mean are they just called Swedish fish for the heck of it?

[G]

You have two five year olds, right?

[D]

Six year olds now they're six.

[G]

What is this like? Does it remind you of something over candy too?

[A]

Right.

[G]

You know, listen, I love these guys who had $7,000 price targets and they got here and now it really is going to be something we have to be a bit more discerning. When you talk about Goldman and Morgan, I mean I think they're already anticipating a great IPO calendar. You saw the, you know, the potential for Space X. That's going to be a free for all. You know, Goldman and Morgan, one of them is going to get it. I don't think both of them are going to be lead left, you know, so there's going to be a lot of, you know, back and forth here. Maybe anthropic is another one. So maybe this is the year for IPOs.

[A]

Well, I just think for, for banks, it's still deeper yield curve. I think it is cost efficiencies. I think it's, you know, a fintech trade that now turns into an AI trade. I mean, for, for banks, there's so much that you could cut out of there. The margin. Look at, we've done with margins at Wal Mart. Look at companies that have invested in technology, banks have been investing in technology. Banks are giving back more capital than they've ever given back. Banks have a bull's eye off their back. Of course, they're rerating. They should.

[C]

Coming up, Turns Pharmaceutical CEO Amy Burroughs will join us to break down the latest promising trial results for its leukemia drug. The data and the company's next big R and D push right after this. Welcome back to Fast MONEY in a big year for biotech. Turns Pharmaceuticals. Among the names leading the charge, surging a stunning 694% since January and leading the iShares Biotech ETF this year. Last Monday, the company presented data on its experimental drug for chronic myeloid leukemia, helping a majority of patients who received prior treatment significantly reduced the number of diseased white blood cells in their bloodstream. Shares gaining almost 50% just since last Monday. For more, let's bring in Amy Burrows, the CEO of Turns Pharmaceuticals. Amy, great to have you with us.

[J]

Thank you so much for having me back, Melissa.

[C]

This was stunning for most investors, most analysts out there in terms of the data, three times better approximately than the standard of care right now. Can you sort of speak to what this means for patients and how soon this drug can actually reach market?

[J]

Yeah, absolutely. So chronic myeloid leukemia is a disease which is a chronic condition. And we are testing it in patients who have had three, two or more prior treatments. Most have had three or more prior treatments. So these are patients who are looking for better options. And as you said, we were able to show at our go forward doses, a rate of 75% reached a major molecular response, which is the primary endpoint in clinical trials. And this is really meaningful for people who potentially are running out of options and who have been difficult to treat. And it bodes very well as we move into frontline patients and bring this to market. You asked what that means. We're looking to move to pivotal trials towards the end of 2026 and hope to bring it to Patients soon, the.

[C]

Drug has turned 701. And you recently did a fundraiser, fundraise specifically to support the development of this drug. How much, how far does that get you? The $750 million of the upsize offering that you did manage to, to raise.

[A]

Yeah.

[J]

It's exciting because it gets us to reading out that pivotal data and being able to bring this to patients.

[E]

Amy, this is amazing news. Congratulations. My question to you is, what do you, what have you factored in as the addressable market for this? Right now the market's rewarding with a close to a $5 billion valuation. Where's. What's your sense in terms of the total addressable market going forward?

[J]

Yeah, so I think what investors really see is currently the best drug in CML is projected to reach 4 billion or more in peak sales. And as we look at a drug that has even better potential efficacy, where patients could be on the drug for longer, and this is a chronic disease, people really see that it could be meaningfully larger than that.

[C]

Aside from this candidate, what else is in the pipeline? Amy, what else should we be looking for?

[J]

So we're an oncology company. We've got great scientists. We're really focusing the majority of our efforts right now and really bringing term 701 to market for these patients as our primary effort. And you'll hear more to come in the future about other assets that we're working on.

[C]

All right, Amy, great to speak with you. Thank you. Keep us posted on the progress.

[J]

Thank you so much, Melissa.

[C]

Amy Burrows, turn. I mean, it's a fascinating story.

[H]

Great story.

[C]

Yeah. Novartis is the standard of care. The drug from Novartis is the standard of care. What does this mean? You asked about how you view the.

[E]

Market in terms of drug, and I say this. You know, I was on the board, Leukemia Society, they've changed the name subsequently, but so I'm very familiar with what they're working on. Congratulations. I'll say this. You know, they price that secondary, they upsize it. As you said, it priced it at $40, and we're obviously significantly higher even with today's second sell off. If this turns out to be what it is. I mean, that $4 billion market cap, you put a 10x on that. So this is in sort of the world of the ins, meds and those types of things. Very binary, but very good.

[C]

This also tells you that people are looking for the story. I mean, within health care, there are these tremendous stories. Beyond AI, there are huge gainers.

[F]

So you're trying to get it with her. Okay. Raise that money. That was very good. And upsized like said. So they have Runway now. I mean, it's still, I love the story, the idea of it. As a investor, I find it hard to sit through a phase two trial and you know, the potential. I mean it's a home run if that's the business you're in and you know it. And good for them. I love to see companies like this successful. Yeah, for me it's hard to own.

[A]

Yeah. I tell you what, in the oncology space, there's other ways to play it. JJ continues to have positive results across a full spectrum of oncology. And you know, again, a company that I think was kind of trapped in a sideways pattern, much due to the litigation overhang and also just some sense that people really wondered where they were going in terms of their next move. So again, I think there are exciting oncology plays out there that are kind of bulge bracket plays people are not playing in.

[F]

All right.

[C]

Well, the FDA has been an agency under fire from controversial staff appointees to deep staffing cuts, to being openly questioned by former chiefs about medical policies. Now CNBC has learned that in the depths of the government shutdown, the FDA approved sending staffers on a quarter million dollar trip to a Singapore conference, prompting questions about the agency's priorities. This is our latest investigation. So to see the whole thing go to cnbc.com coming up, can FedEx deliver the goods when it reports earnings on Thursday? What investors will be watching as the transport tighten tries to end above the year on a high note. That is next. And here's a sneak peek at the Kramer camp. Jim is chatting exclusively with a firm CEO, Max Levchin. That's a full interview. Top of the hour on Mad Money. More fast money into. Welcome back to fast money. FedEx on deck to report earnings Thursday after the close with investors focus on shipping demand and the impact of its cost cutting campaign. Shares are flat year to date but have risen nearly 25% over the past three months Overall, a good run for transports in general.

[E]

Yeah, I'll say this and I've made this like a bunch of times, I'll probably make it again. Valuation is compelling. If you go back to the April, though, that was the third point of an uptrend that's been in place since 2019. And I think they say something even marginally good. And if this cost cutting is working, this stock should test three and a quarter which was the previous high we saw, I want to say earlier, well, maybe six to nine months ago so I like FedEx in earnings.

[A]

I like it a lot. I think there are both some of the cyclical trends you want to see for their core business. I think we've worked through pricing dynamics. I think there's a lot of upside in terms of their margin and where they have streamlined the business. I think the ground business is a lot more profitable. They've got pricing power. It seems somewhat. Again, I think it's going higher, Gary.

[F]

So I don't know. And I haven't owned it in a while. It's not crazy expensive at all. I look at it more as sort of what does this tell us about holidays? You know, how much we see the economy slow Volumes. Right. And then people trying to realign their trade, their supply chain makes it difficult. But I think it's probably decent down here. Fifteen and change times. That's not crazy.

[C]

How about some of the other transports? I mean we've really seen a run there. Your Delta Airlines.

[A]

I love Delta. Again, it's a margin story, people. There's no let up in demand in the front of the bus. There's no question that they're figuring out how to charge more for different parts of the main cabin. There's no question that. I just think cyclicality from their core business has, has not been priced back in since liberation day. I would also just, you know, quickly on ups. UPS to me is the one you play though. And the one, I am the target of the two. Well, it's, it's not as bad as target. I do think there's been a self kind of help fix story there and there's a huge dividend which isn't a reason to buy it, but I like it.

[G]

Yeah, I saw something interesting today.

[E]

Yeah, yeah, you did.

[G]

Okay. Expedia. Okay. Jets, which is your ETF of the airlines and Marriott, they were all all at 52 week highs. And we've spent so much time talking about a consumer, it's being choosy, is trading down, looks like they're traveling.

[E]

What does that tell you, Michael?

[G]

So yeah, that we can win. They can win.

[C]

What?

[A]

I know, I know.

[C]

What are you talking about? There may be us all in on the job.

[E]

I saw something today that's a line godfather to Michael Corleone, Cuba. And he's speaking to a group of people. And then of course Hyman Roth takes him aside. I wish you would have said something to me privately. Okay, that's what that's referring to. Back to you.

[C]

All right, up next, final trades, final trade time. Tim.

[A]

Yeah, J.J. i think you've got consumer products, you got medtech, and you've got oncology.

[C]

Karen yes.

[F]

So I like the whole big pharma space moving nicely. Good place to hide in lower PE if you like Novo.

[G]

Dan Guy, what's up with the U in your tube?

[E]

Yeah, not a good day, not a.

[C]

Good day, not a good day.

[G]

But it really does look like it's getting a little overdone. Guy Hurts.

[H]

I'm with you.

[I]

Uber hurts.

[C]

The Htz or Hertz? No, I'm just concerned about the final trade.

[A]

It's too hurting, not concerned at all.

[E]

Bristol Myers Melissa comes out BMY all.

[C]

Right, thank you for watching Fast Money. See you tomorrow on squawkbox.

[B]

All opinions expressed by the Fast Money participants are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of CNBC, NBCUniversal, their parent company, or affiliates, and may have been previously disseminated by them on television, radio, Internet, or another medium. You should not treat any opinion expressed on this podcast as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of an opinion. Such opinions are based upon information the Fast Money participants consider reliable, but neither CNBC nor its affiliates and or subsidiaries warrant its completeness or accuracy, and it should not be relied upon as such. To view the full Fast Money disclaimer, please visit cnbc.com fastmoneydisclaimer@ Capella University, learning the right skills could make a difference. That's why our business programs teach you relevant skills you can take from the courseroom to the workplace. A different future is closer than you think with Capella University. Learn more at Capella. Eduardo.