← CNBC's "Fast Money"
CNBC's "Fast Money"
Intel Reports Results… And Trump Sues JPMorgan And CEO Jamie Dimon 1/22/25
00:43:29
Intel on the move as the chipmaker reports quarterly results. The numbers from the quarter, and where top tech analyst Gene Munster sees the stock heading next. Plus, President Trump going after JPMorgan and its CEO Jamie Dimon. Why he’s suing the big bank, and how other financial institutions are considering his credit card cap rate plan. Fast Money Disclaimer
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- [00:00]
Melissa Lee
A rich life isn't a straight line to a destination on the horizon. Sometimes it takes an unexpected turn with detours, new possibilities and even another passenger or three. And with 100 years of navigating ups and downs, you can count on Edward Jones to help guide you through it all. Because life is a winding path made rich by the people you walk it with. Let's find your rich together. Edward Jones Member SIPC Comcast Business helps.
- [00:32]
Tim Seymour
Retailers become seamlessly restocking frictionless paying favorite shopping destinations. It's how nationwide restaurants become touchscreen ordering quick serving eateries and how hospitals become the patient scanning data, managing healthcare facilities that we all depend on. With leading networking and connectivity, advanced cybersecurity and expert partnership, Comcast business is powering the engine of modern business powering possibilities restriction Supply.
- [01:02]
Melissa Lee
Live from the NASDAQ markets in the heart of New York City's Times Square, this is fast money. Here's what's on tap tonight. All eyes on intel. Shares of the semi giant dropping after earnings and a red hot start to the year. We dig into the numbers and get the traders thoughts on where the stock is going now and Trump versus Dimon the president suing JP Morgan and its CEO. What's behind his claim and how the bank execs recent comments might have spurred the suit. Plus a recently rare big update for Metta. Boeing quietly climbs to two year highs and more records for gold and silver. How much longer can the metal mania last? We'll talk to one top fund manager about the next move. I'm Melissa Lee, come to you live from studio be at the NASDAQ on the desk tonight. Tim Seymour, Karen Feiderman, Dan Nathan and Guy Adami. We start off with intel sharply lower after hours following its latest quarterly results. The chipmaker beating estimates for the quarter but giving disappointing guidance. Shares had hit four year highs during the trading session. Intel's conference call just kicking off at the top of the hour. Christina Parsonables is here on set with the very latest.
- [01:59]
Christina Partsneveless
So they've got the guide was weak because they just don't have enough supply. They warned that they were supply constraint last quarter. The peak of that supply constraint would be in Q1 in this actual current quarter. I was able to speak with the CFO very recently, just in the last hour or so just about the earnings and so he attributed that weakness in the guide because of that you're also seeing gross margins weaker than expected too. And that has to do with their Panther late Panther Lake processor which is a PC processor. So they blame that the interesting thing too is everybody keeps talking about the foundry business and the moment they announce a customer, more customers for 18A and 14A, things are going to change. I asked him specifically about that. Are we going to get any big names? And he said no, we are unlikely to announce customers just in general. So we keep hoping for this but I don't think we're going to get that big Apple name on the earnings call anytime soon. He said the big signal for new customers will be the change in Capex. Capex has not changed thus far. When Lip Bhutan, the CEO of intel decides to increase Capex that will show that they now have new customers and will invest even more in their more advanced processes. So that really stood out to me in my phone call with them and probably something that he will discuss on the earnings call as well.
- [03:11]
Tim Seymour
It's interesting. I mean where does the Capex come from? I mean this is a company that's been begging, borrowing and not the last part of that. But I mean they, you know, the balance sheet and massive cuts across their business have been a story of not having the ability to have Capex and the lack of investment even in their existing inventory and their existing production is what cost them this quarter. Right. I mean so is, is Capex something that they can summon and pull forward without someone stepping in to lend the money?
- [03:38]
Christina Partsneveless
You mean the lifelines from Softbank, Nvidia and the US government holds a $9 billion stake and has helped the stock rise what 47% just in the last three months and continue to climb higher. So just to your point, you mentioned the stock being lower yesterday, climbed 11%.
- [03:51]
Melissa Lee
Right.
- [03:52]
Christina Partsneveless
So when you zone it out or pull it out, it's, it's not that bad.
- [03:56]
Tim Seymour
The 6% of run up was crazy.
- [03:57]
Melissa Lee
But, but inherent in the commentary about Capex is that there isn't a new customer.
- [04:01]
Karen Feiderman
Exactly.
- [04:02]
Melissa Lee
He said, and that is the problem, he said that there is no increase because there isn't anything to increase it for. Precisely.
- [04:09]
Christina Partsneveless
Yeah, I can't find the quote right now. I had it on here but he said when we get one. So he was talking about the future which unless they're being really secretive about it and don't want to share it, sounds like they don't have one for 14A or else we would see this increase.
- [04:22]
Melissa Lee
Right. And that's where the question marks were.14A.
- [04:24]
Dan Nathan
Yeah, we missed that on a lot of opportunities. True. I mean, but you know, even with the run up the stocks had and sort of the tailwinds, you theoretically they should have revenue is down 4% year over year, which is not particular. I don't think it's particularly great now Data center was better, absolutely good for them. But margins were sort of, you know, middle of the road. They weren't like screaming off the page. And the guide, you could say, you know what, they sandbagged the guide. That may be true but the guide wasn't particularly good. And when you trade it 92 times ish next year's numbers, you got to do better than that.
- [04:54]
Guy Adami
I think companies sold a lot of stock down there at 20, 23 stocks at 53 I'd be selling hand over fist to actually fund that build out in Capex. And if you listen to some of the comments that Taiwan Semi had to make, they're not really worried about this competitor at all.
- [05:11]
Dan Nathan
Right.
- [05:11]
Guy Adami
And they're going to be spending 3x in capex. So you know, this is one where worried about them. What's that?
- [05:16]
Tim Seymour
Yeah, nobody's worried.
- [05:18]
Guy Adami
But, but by the same token, if the stock was still, if it was like 30 bucks you'd say well there's a lot of opportunity here. Right. And so right now I think it's run ahead of that probably near term opportunity, even the longer term opportunity.
- [05:29]
Karen Feiderman
No, I agree with you. If you, if I were they, that's what I would be doing. It would make sense. I mean even if they building the cash up would be good almost in any scenario unless things were about to.
- [05:40]
Guy Adami
Immediately make you less reliant on the government. By the way, if you think about.
- [05:45]
Melissa Lee
Do you think that how do you think Trump will feel if they diluted.
- [05:48]
Dan Nathan
To the way that's going to happen in this environment?
- [05:51]
Tim Seymour
Unless they get a preemptive right to sell too. Let them sell. Give them, give them a chance to, to, to, you know, bank some of it.
- [05:58]
Karen Feiderman
Let's say one who did buy it, what they buy 23, 25. I forget somewhere around there. Right. And now the company can have the opportunity. Look, in this environment this will get eaten up like that. An offering. Right. So at these prices, shareholder at wherever, even if they put in the hole, I don't know where's. Yeah, and it'll get done. It'll get done. And so why if you were lowered, if you, if you have a, you know, much lower basis. I know you, you know, did they want to sell here? No, I don't know if they can even. But why wouldn't you want the company to at this raise money, price, raise money. I mean it seems to me what.
- [06:36]
Tim Seymour
What'S Baffling though is this run up into numbers. And again, why was the stock up 11% yesterday? Why was up 4% the day before? Why? Well, again, so it just makes sense because you know, again, you know, Panther Lake guy sounds like a heavy metal band, not a processor. Right. I mean, I mean but this is not the answer and the answer is certainly not their core business.
- [06:59]
Christina Partsneveless
They're blame and they actually, the CFO said it was a high class problem. The fact that there's such demand for their CPUs, they just can't keep up. So I thought that was an interesting quote. The second thing he said is they're going to be spending though on tools, which could bode well for all of the regular tooling companies that we know so much about. You know, lam one of our, that's my hair on the microphone apologies on that. And then just to your point, TSMC CEO specifically said no on the earnings call about intel being a threat to your point, Dan, which is interesting.
- [07:26]
Melissa Lee
Christina, keep us posted on the call. Christina, parts neveless for more on the intel quarter, let's bring in fast money friend Gene Munster. He's the managing partner at Deepwater Asset Management. Gene, great to have you with us.
- [07:37]
Gene Munster
I'm Melissa.
- [07:39]
Melissa Lee
What do you make of that? I mean, you know, the Stock is up 47% this year and it's January 22nd. So you know, this pullback is minor. But what did you make of this quarter and is the stock appropriately valued here?
- [07:54]
Gene Munster
So at the most basic level, intel is a meme stock. They're going to grow 3% next year in video, which it's kind of a comp, is going to grow. My, My guess is 65%. The street's at 50%. And so when you look at this 100% move in the stock, it's because there's been some massive endorsements with the US government SoftBank putting 2 billion in Nvidia, putting in 5 billion to try to get some sort of an edge and an angle on what's going on on the mobile side of AI and get some learnings and potentially some distribution around that side. And so this is a stock that has gotten life because it's had some big endorsements and also has this kind of this hope that they're going to catch lightning in a bottle. And the reason why I wanted to start there with the meme side of this is like I don't know what the stock is going to do. My sense is it goes lower if you're going to just look at the fundamentals here it should go, it should be down like 15% right now. But that's not the case and I think it's part because of this meme stock side. So how do I think about the quarter? The very basic is that they needed to show that especially on the guide that they're going to guide higher, that we're starting to see an improvement you've outlined about the customer. We didn't see any of that. And so this is still a 3% growing turnaround story when the rest of the competition is going like exponentially faster around them.
- [09:25]
Melissa Lee
There was some hope going into the quarter. Maybe this helped fuel this meme ish type of rally that Apple would be a customer for 18a, that Apple actually bought a process design kit for 18a which may indicate that they're closer to becoming a customer. Does that make sense from your standpoint in terms of Apple using this technology?
- [09:44]
Gene Munster
Yeah, they could. They're still going to, I mean they use foundries. Apple's a big customer of TSMC and so I mean they go to other places but they're going to want the, some of the most advanced foundries. And what I understand after this quarter is that you know, their work, Intel's work about building those most advanced foundries are still going to be somewhat limited until they get more customers signed up. And so there's a little bit of a chicken in the egg. I mean they got to get Apple signed up. But does Apple want to sign up without the like clear infrastructure? So I want to be clear is that Apple could become a foundry customer of, of Intel. That's definitely on the board here, but it still doesn't change kind of the fundamental scope of, of their, of their business. And, and that that fundamentally is that even though CPUs have a place that the, the most exciting, the most value, the fastest growing part of this whole infrastructure piece is going to be on the GPU side and they still don't have much there.
- [10:44]
Tim Seymour
So Jean, then drop us back into the earlier part of our conversation which you may have been listening to. But either way you're such a fast money regular that, and as an investor you think not only about valuations and bottom up, you think about the dynamics around the sector you're investing in. And, and you know, Karen was saying why wouldn't they be sellers? Maybe we were all kind of saying that the bottom line is semiconductors continue to outperform as a group. We've seen rotation within that group. I'm just kind of curious to get your take here on why the market has rewarded intel, why the market has rewarded memory so much in the context of what is still an extremely commoditized business. Semiconductors are up 12% year to date. The rest of the market, I mean the S and P, I mean the Nasdaq is flat. And that tells me that people still feel like, at least they did up until today, that they want to own semis and that includes Intel.
- [11:33]
Gene Munster
So there's a piece to this like a bigger part of the conversation which is like what's driving all this? And there's a question, there's a focus has been largely on training. When we think about anything CPU related, GPU related, any infrastructure related, it's been most of the buy side and sell side conversation has been around training. Inference is going to be a lot bigger when I say a lot bigger and this is going to be sound crazy but could be hundreds of thousands of times bigger than what we're seeing in terms of the infrastructure spend on training. That's probably for a different day to go into that. But I do believe that the market is starting to recognize like that this, this, whether it's through memory or through some of the infrastructure side is going to be growing faster for longer and I think we're starting to see some of that. Intel has gotten caught up in that because it's the rising tide. But I think the substance of what's going on in their business is this is still a show me story.
- [12:27]
Melissa Lee
Gene, great to have you with us. Thank you.
- [12:29]
Gene Munster
Thank you.
- [12:30]
Melissa Lee
Gene Munster, you saw the stock there, down by 6.7% right now. Conference call is about 12 minutes and we'll keep you posted on any of the headlines there. First question on the call would be.
- [12:41]
Dan Nathan
What from you missed years of opportunity is supply. When you say demand is outstripping supply, can you quantify that? Because that's a great thing to say, but what are the numbers around it? And if the numbers are significant, maybe you can justify the valuation. I'm not sure how you get there though, Karen.
- [12:55]
Karen Feiderman
I don't know if you can actually justify, even if, you know, we talk about demand denied or delayed would seem delayed, not denied. But still, I mean this, this valuation bubble, I don't know, they've got so much more to go before they grow into this valuation bubble that I don't know, this quarter really changed.
- [13:15]
Melissa Lee
All right, all right, we've got a news alert out of D.C. emily Wilkins has got the details here. Emily. Hey, Melissa. Well look, a government shutdown is looking incredibly unlikely at this point. And that is because the House just passed all of the funding bills that are needed to keep the government funded for the next fiscal year, well ahead of that January 30th deadline next week. Now, of course, it's on the Senate balls over to the Senate's court for them to move. But we know that these bills, many of them got strong bipartisan support. We're anticipating easy passage for most of them. The one to watch, of course, is the Department of Homeland Security Security, given a lot of the recent politicization around it. But even in the House, we saw a number of Democrats join with Republicans in order to pass it. And so at this point, while we'd be watching the Senate very closely next week, it seems like at this point a government shutdown is very likely to be averted. Melissa? Emily thanks. Emily Wilkins, Meantime, let's get to GE Aerospace sinking over 7%. That's its worst day since April. Despite beating estimates for the quarter, investors unimpressed with the outlook for revenue growth in its commercial engine and services unit. Boeing, meantime, was higher, closing at more than two year highs. The playmaker on pace for a ninth week of gains, its longest streak since 2004. And Boeing, of course, is a favorite amongst the acronyms of 2026. Right? I think it's in many of your, three of your.
- [14:33]
Tim Seymour
How, how in 26?
- [14:34]
Melissa Lee
Oh no, 2025, 25. I'm 2525. 2025, 24.
- [14:40]
Tim Seymour
Look, I'm always an acronym or too early on my tradesman. So that should be your next. Yes, early. I like that. I believe it was the Bean band and you know, the view going into 25 was the company was actually going to begin having cash flow and surprise people, free cash flow in 4Q25 and not wait the 26 to rally this thing. I think we started to get some glimpse of that. There was a handful of one step forward, two steps back, then two step forwards. What we're getting from this company, deliveries are moving. I mean they are delivering, they have all kinds of regulatory support. Seemingly we have an order book. All we hear about from the actual commercial airlines is that they continue to order and that their, their core business is dependent on it. So I mean, I think Boeing is just starting to move. If you look at that, that that level up around to 60, that's kind of like near five year high territory. All right, you go through back to one cycle, there's good resistance there. You break through to 60 and I.
- [15:38]
Dan Nathan
Think the charts love this December tim spot on 12-20-23 I think the high was like 265. I'm not going to split hairs but he's right net. I think for a long time we've thought that the stock could go there. I will continue to say I think the stock is going there. Then we'll see what happens. But it's been a great run.
- [15:54]
Karen Feiderman
It's been a really good run. I don't think it's over. I mean we, we saw what was it they said we'll be cash flow positive.
- [16:01]
Tim Seymour
I don't, I think they're now right.
- [16:05]
Karen Feiderman
Now let's say also it does, I don't think it matters as much but defense as well.
- [16:09]
Melissa Lee
Right.
- [16:09]
Karen Feiderman
Right. So you have, you know, you've got some momentum there and the duopoly and you know Delta and United rather talking.
- [16:16]
Tim Seymour
About their businesses are strong.
- [16:18]
Karen Feiderman
Yeah, very strong. And I like the setup. It's moved a lot. That's the only thing I don't like about it. But staying long.
- [16:25]
Melissa Lee
Coming up, Baba gets a bump. What the tech giant is planning for its AI chip arm and what it will mean for the stock that's already doubled in the past year. But first, the big move in Metta by Wall street is piling back in after the pullback and whether our traders agree with a big bullish call, don't go anywhere. Fast money's back in two.
- [16:46]
Tim Seymour
This is Fast Money with Melissa Lee right here on cnbc. Comcast business helps retailers become seamlessly restocking frictionless paying favorite shopping destinations. It's how nationwide restaurants become touchscreen ordering quick serving eateries and how hospitals become the patient scanning data managing healthcare facilities that we all depend on. With leading networking and connectivity, advanced cybersecurity and expert partnership, Comcast Business is powering the engine of modern business powering possibilities. Restrictions apply.
- [17:23]
Melissa Lee
Not every sale happens at the register. Before AT&T business Wireless checking out customers on our mobile POS systems took too long. Basically a staring contest where everyone loses. It's crazy what people will say during an awkward silence. Now transactions are done before the silence takes hold. That means I can focus on the task at hand and make an extra sale or two. Sometimes I do miss the bonding time sometimes.
- [17:48]
Tim Seymour
AT&T business Wireless connecting changes everything.
- [17:53]
Melissa Lee
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- [18:52]
Karen Feiderman
Yeah, it is a big move. I mean one of the points he makes is that it has a significant multiple discount to Google. I think 10 it should have a discount to Google. I think you know one of the things that I'm long Meta it's a big position. It's been frustrating for sure that notably comment last quarter. I mean it has me a little.
- [19:14]
Melissa Lee
Bit spending increase spending.
- [19:16]
Karen Feiderman
Right. And what's different is Google's ability. I mean Meta now has a balance sheet that is net debt not a lot they can handle it for sure and that doesn't include any of the SPVs but is a different entity than you know we want to talk about asset light and now becoming asset heavy. So I don't love that as much. We'll see that that will we don't know what what the spend is it going to be worth it? We'll see what the new Lama model is. The monetization is sort of unclear versus a Google and one of the I do think it is cheap though and I do think that some of the points he makes about monetizing WhatsApp maybe it's right thread slammer. I hope, I hope all of that is true. It's not crazy expensive but given the change in the profile of the business now it is more expensive.
- [20:03]
Guy Adami
Yeah the monetization versus the spend for Google and Meta are very different. Right. So Google is building out a cloud and they have significant amount. I mean I think Metta is one of their customers too. Right. So all the spend that they're doing is obviously to train this model and to kind of you know have it go across all of these platforms that they have and if the ad business relative to Google. So here's another point of Competition. You know I think Google's kind of sitting in the catbird seat in many, many ways and you know the one thing I would say is you guys said this last night. I mean this sentiment in these stocks, this and Microsoft so bad it wasn't going to take much at least on their earnings calls to get this sort of pop. That being said this is not based on any fundamentals right now We've got to hear what the company has to say next Thursday.
- [20:47]
Tim Seymour
The WhatsApp the WhatsApp ramp is a big part at least of Brent's view. It's going to go four times by 29. That, that is impressive. The dynamic around the core flywheel I don't think there's ever anything that's been broken about the flywheel and I think the AI dynamic that's accented, enabled, enhanced it is part of why it might have made the highs it made about a year, year and a half ago. So I just think that the valuation is where you come back to I mean if you look at on a trailing you know it's 22 times on 25 it's you know still not terribly cheap. The you know the all star hires sound expensive to me in other words I hear, I feel like we paid a lot of money, we're spending a lot of money Capex is big, we're now have some net debt I mean this, this is the story with matter and why it's not getting the multiple back when it was really cheap and it was debt free less than a.
- [21:43]
Dan Nathan
Market multiples compelling the seller I mean this stock was 589 bounced I think 675 sold off again Here we are now I think the setup in earnings is really good and I'll just mention this we were I think all on the desk when they acquired WhatsApp.
- [21:57]
Tim Seymour
Nobody knew what it was other than.
- [21:59]
Guy Adami
Dan was the only one who knew.
- [22:00]
Dan Nathan
So I was like what was it.
- [22:02]
Tim Seymour
Was some crazy number like 9 billion.
- [22:04]
Guy Adami
Was 19 it was in 2014 and.
- [22:06]
Karen Feiderman
You knew what did they pay a billion one five or one one crazy one. That was a good deal was it one?
- [22:15]
Guy Adami
Yeah people went crazy about it. This is the dumbest thing ever.
- [22:20]
Melissa Lee
I'm just checking shares of intel in the after hour session. We're now at session lows down about 10% at this hour. The conference call is about 23 minutes in and we'll try and find out why the stock has taken a dip here. In the meantime there's a lot more fast money to come. Here's A that's coming up next.
- [22:36]
Tim Seymour
A baba bounce. Shares of the Chinese tech giant popping on reports it's planning to IPO its own chipmaking unit, how it could take on the likes of Nvidia and other semi heavyweights, plus Trump taking on JP Morgan, the details behind the president's lawsuit and what might have caused him to sue the big bank and its CEO. You're watching Fast Money live from the NASDAQ market site in Times Square. We're back right after this, Guys. It's no use putting it off.
- [23:14]
Gene Munster
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- [24:46]
Melissa Lee
There you have intel shares in the after hour session down almost 10% at this hour close to session lows. Let's get back to Gene Munster who's been listening into the intel conference call. Gene, they were making some Comments announcements on 14 customers not having any until maybe the second half. Was that the reason why the stock is down?
- [25:02]
Gene Munster
Yeah, we saw the stock drift lower after. I think that Christine from your team had reported this before but them kind of confirming that. Don't expect any customer announcements to the back half of the year or into 2027. So conceivably we may have to wait a full year for that. And so if you're here, you want it for the foundry business, you want to see some of these customers come in. Sounds like we're going to have to wait. That's a long time. Surprisingly, right after that they did announce, I think this is the first time they talked about an analyst day in the back half of the year. They didn't give an exact date, but that is to me a bullish sign that they think that they probably are going to show some customers because you don't want to face the music unless you have something to say. So the market just kind of shrugged that off. But the most important part is we really wanted to hear something on customers and we basically got pushback.
- [25:50]
Melissa Lee
All right, Gene. Thanks Jean. Thank you. Meantime, shares of Alibaba jumping 5% today, hitting nearly three month highs. The Chinese e commerce giant reportedly planning an IPO for its AI chip arm, T Head, which develops semiconductors for both computing and storage. Alibaba stock has more than doubled over the past year. Of course they're feeding into huge demand for AI chip plays at this point.
- [26:13]
Dan Nathan
Had a rough in the last year but the move does. It makes a lot of sense to me. I'm sure the rest of the panel can opine on that. And I'll say this, JP Morgan I think just put a 230 price target on the stock and this IPO that's going to come out, there are people out there saying this is like in video light. So there are a lot of reasons to be very bullish. Still on Alibaba.
- [26:33]
Karen Feiderman
Well, it's sort of funny. It was up on the day that Baidu announced theirs the stock was up, I don't know, 10% or so on the hope that they would do it. And now here is the news that they're considering doing so. It's up twice on the same news and in the meantime it's just sort of been a frenzy of. So I get why people are excited about it. It's still not a crazy valuation for Alibaba.
- [26:56]
Tim Seymour
It's cheap and in fact it's very cheap. Even to Tencent, which I'm also on Bob is the largest position in IDO. It also was the B2 acronyms ago in everybody's keeping track of them. Well, I mean this people at home I know are and I would just point out that this company is a company that was always cheap but it was always under the thumb of the Chinese government. Guess who's running their deep sea corporation now? It's Jack Ma. I mean, the guy that basically there's no question that the alignment for investors is Alibaba is in the right place in China, which is the most important ingredient in owning the stock that's very cheap, very much in Cloud, very much in AI, the largest GMV E commerce company in the world. So I think it's going a lot higher.
- [27:37]
Guy Adami
Yeah. If you just pay attention a little bit, what Some of these CEOs over here are saying, whether they're the private companies or even Satya Nadella at Microsoft, I think that the notion that these companies and their model development are so far behind us, they're not. They're saying they're not far behind us. And they're doing it in different ways. They're doing it in open source, they're doing it not with all the hoppers. Yeah. So, you know, that's something that one of the reasons why I think these companies over here are spending money hand of her fist, but they might be spending it in an inefficient way relative to what's going on there. And so to me, you know, that might thwart innovation over here is all I'm saying.
- [28:12]
Melissa Lee
Right. I mean, that's sort of the dilemma. Right. I mean, if they had less money to spend, they would find the way to innovate.
- [28:17]
Tim Seymour
They need less power in China. China. China has solved power in a way we have not in this country, especially through solar and wind and dynamics that are making at least one half of this entire trade something that they actually have an advantage over the US and so I do think asset light in China is something that's more real than it is here.
- [28:37]
Melissa Lee
Coming up, Trump going after JP Morgan, why he is suing the big bank and its CEO Jamie Dimon. The response and how other financials are responding to his credit card rate cap plan. Fast Money's back in to.
- [28:52]
Tim Seymour
Missed a moment of fast. Catch us anytime on the go. Follow the Fast Money podcast test. We're back right after this.
- [29:05]
Melissa Lee
Welcome back to FAST money. Stocks higher for a second day. The Dow jumping more than 300 points now positive for the week. The S and P up half a percent in the Nasdaq, leading the gains, climbing 9.10 of a percent. Shares of P&G up nearly 3% today. The consumer goods giant topping earnings estimates this morning, but just missing revenue expectations as shrinking demand, particularly in razors and diapers. Weighed on sales. CFO saying he expects the quarter would be the softest for the fiscal year. And some more after hours action now. Coabeeding revenue estimates while railroad company CSX missed on the same metric. Intuitive Surgical beating expectations on the top and the bottom lines. And Capital One Financial topping revenue expectations but falling short on earnings. Meantime, President Trump suing JPMorgan and its CEO Jamie Dimon for $5 billion at least east the President claiming he has he was debanked after the January6 Capitol Hill riots. Shares of JP Morgan still closing higher on the day. CNBC's Eamonn Jabbers has the developments here. Eamon I can't help to think that this comes like right after Jamie Dimon was very critical about the credit card caps.
- [30:12]
Eamon Jabers
Yeah, we saw that yesterday. We saw the Jamie Dimon critical on immigration yesterday and now we see this suit today. But remember the President threatened this suit last week. So this has been in the works for a while. The suit sets up a dramatic confrontation between the most powerful man on Wall street and the most powerful man in the world. In the lawsuit, President Trump alleges that JP Morgan debanked his companies for political reasons. The suit says that JP Morgan debanked the Trump related companies on February 19th of 2021, shortly after the President left office at the end of his first term. The suit says that Trump is confident that JP Morgan's decision came about as a result of political and social motivations. But the suit does not present any evidence that the debanking decision was made for any political reason. It alleges that JP Morgan didn't provide any reason for debanking the accounts, but that plaintiffs have subsequently learned that it was done as the result of political discrimination without saying how they came to learn that. The suit also says that plaintiffs have recently learned that jpmc, at the direction of Dimon, has unlawfully and unjustifiably published some or all of their names, including the names of President Trump, the Trump Organization with its affiliated entities and or the Trump family on a black list. In a statement, a JP Morgan spokesperson said in part, while we regret President Trump has sued us, we believe the suit has no merit. We respect the President's right to sue us and our right to defend ourselves. That's what the courts are for. JPMC does not close accounts for political or religious reasons. Now, the President was asked about this just a few moments ago on Air Force One as he's flying back from Davos. He defended the suit and said that Jamie Dimon was simply not allowed to do what he did with these accounts. Melissa back over to you.
- [32:02]
Melissa Lee
Where were these names published, Eamon, or allegedly published, I should say.
- [32:06]
Eamon Jabers
Well, that's the question, right? What is this blacklist that this suit is talking about? I've asked the legal team for the president what they're talking about here. Are they referencing, you know, suspicious activity reports? Are they referencing some other federal document? And I've gotten no answers. The suit itself doesn't say that. It's not clear to me that J.P. morgan knows what this blacklist is a reference to. So we'll have to wait for some more detail to come out in this case. But, but it's not clear exactly what they're talking about. Maybe some sort of interbank system about credit worthiness or reputation risk. We'll have to wait and see.
- [32:40]
Melissa Lee
All right, Eamon, thank you. Eamon Jabers. Well, while President Trump targets JP Morgan, bank of America is considering new credit cards with a 10% interest rate for an entire year. This on the heels of Trump's call to cap rates to help consumers. So here we have a sector where we thought the government was largely behind it in terms of deregulation and setting up an environment for banks to thrive. And yet what we've heard in the past couple of weeks are measures that would hurt banks in some way.
- [33:08]
Tim Seymour
I like a 10% teaser rate for getting, for drawing in credit card business that's wildly profitable for banks. And I don't expect there's going to be a 10% cap. Therefore, I think as a promotion, I think that's a really smart move. I think the, the headlines that have been over the last couple of weeks that have seemed very much, you know, administrative and more bureaucracy, but certainly less deregulation are ones that are a bit surprising. Even though I still think this is an environment where deal flow, M and A and this frenzy that we've talked about is only been stoked even in the last week. So I get it. And you've heard me say this before, I think deregulation in terms of the, the, the delta on this change from that much worse is better in Europe right now. And I think that's one of the reasons why European companies are outperforming.
- [33:58]
Melissa Lee
I'm surprised the banks haven't come out and said, you know what? We already offer 0% introductory rates. Oh, and we'll extend the 0% for a couple more months.
- [34:07]
Karen Feiderman
I mean, I think this is just window dressing, right? And we all talked about who's going to be able to get a, you know, a capped rate. Somebody who's a really good Credit, who doesn't need it. And that doesn't really solve the problem. Maybe it does solve the problem of, you know, the President wanting to show that he cares about affordability. And that's what this is. So I don't know. I do think, though, that the president does want capital to flow freely. That's really important to growing. If you want to talk about the amount of growth, the GDP numbers, which, you know, got to be insane, but this much growth, if you hinder the banks. Banks and you take them back and, you know, put up more difficult capital requirements, all of that, that's going to slow that process down, which I think is the most important.
- [34:52]
Tim Seymour
And that's what Jamie was saying.
- [34:54]
Karen Feiderman
Yeah. Maybe second to the market.
- [34:57]
Dan Nathan
The other point, I mean, we haven't talked about it. Maybe we should. The fact that there's talk about being able to tap into your 401ks to put money down on homes, which I think would. Maybe that's another reason the home builders are rallying. I'll say this. You know, bank of America was in the crosshairs a year and a half or so ago. Now JP Morgan is so. I think Bank America is like. If you've been in that classroom situation where you're the student that got picked on all the time.
- [35:20]
Tim Seymour
Was that you?
- [35:21]
Eamon Jabers
It was, yeah.
- [35:22]
Dan Nathan
And then all sudden, somebody else again picked on. Then you start to get the beer.
- [35:25]
Melissa Lee
Muscles up a little, like bac better.
- [35:27]
Tim Seymour
Were you drinking in class? Were you drinking beer in class? He said beer muscles. When someone has beer muscles, they've been terminated.
- [35:36]
Dan Nathan
I don't know. I wasn't heard of any of you that had muscles.
- [35:39]
Tim Seymour
You're part of Westchester? Wouldn't surprise me.
- [35:41]
Dan Nathan
Well, no. Where I grew up, though, Tim, sometimes that's all we had.
- [35:46]
Melissa Lee
You have a trade on the banks.
- [35:49]
Guy Adami
I think all these bank CEOs are going to wait this out. Right. They're going to see. They know it's political right now. They know that the, you know, the punishment is the process. And so again, I think they're going to be savvy. I think they're going to be savvier than the administration.
- [36:01]
Melissa Lee
All right, coming up, heavy metal musings. What one top analyst sees in store for the space as gold and silver trade at record highs and where he's seeing the most opportunity. Fast Money's back into. Welcome back to Fast Money. Gold and silver rallying again today. Selling at another set of record highs. The latest moves as investors seek safer assets amid geopolitical uncertainty. For more on how Investors are positioning commodities. Sprott Asset Management CEO John Campaglia joins us now. John, great to see you with us. In terms of flows, what are you even seeing? Have they been just as strong?
- [36:40]
John Campaglia
Yeah, we've seen incredible investor interest, particularly at the end of last year, which is not a normal period of investor engagement. And we've seen continued momentum into 2026. The real winner so far, I would say, has been physical silver. There are a number of factors that are driving investors to physical silver. It's hard to believe that it took, you know, from 2011 to late 2025 to breach the old high. And since we did that, silver is not looked back. It's almost doubled since. Since breaking the old high. So it's had incredible momentum over the last few weeks.
- [37:17]
Melissa Lee
At what point do you think demand destruction comes into the silver price picture?
- [37:21]
John Campaglia
Yeah, it's a good question. We've had some solar panel makers in China already say that with the price of silver at these lofty levels, they're going to start to substitute to copper. Not as efficient in terms of the use of solar panel, but you will see some lower value. I think products try to substitute, so that's normal. But I think what's really overwhelmingly driving the market is investor demand. We've seen a lot of investors around the world returning to silver. And one of the big buying groups is in India. And the reason for that is simply because as the price of gold is now knocking on $5,000 an ounce, investors in India cannot afford to buy gold. So they're substituting towards silver as an alternative. So we saw 85 million ounces of silver being imported in India just in the month of September and October. And we see continued investor demand, not only from buyers in India, but also ETFs. We've seen very strong inflows into the sprouts of silver trust over the last few months.
- [38:24]
Tim Seymour
Hey, John, it's Tim. Look, I've been following you guys for, for a long time and you've been out front on gold and silver, but also on uranium. And, you know, my sense is that much in the way we're talking about demand from the investor side, I sense that there is institutional demand for PGMs. And first of all, it shows in the price of your stock. Stock, your stock has been a rocket. And I think a lot of investors have figured out that you grow, your revenues grow, even though you're. There are economies of scale, let's put it that way. I guess I'm just trying to understand to the Extent that you're seeing a scramble in the institutional investment community to have more exposure. Whether that means, you know, owning PGMs as, as a, as a, as an institutional allocation with the only handful of people, that's a very small group, group that can actually do it in an institutional way. And also the business overall, which is that this is an asset class that, you know, if you've been in emerging markets and other places for a long time, gold's been growing and growing. But precious metals, what I'm hearing from the biggest money managers in the world in terms of RAs and whatnot is that you start hearing about 10% allocation to PGMs and plus of that means I think institutionally, let alone retail, they're short. And I think there's more to go. Just comment any way you want because I know you can't talk about strategic stuff, but I think it means we're still very early.
- [39:49]
John Campaglia
Yeah, I think we're incredibly early. You know, I think you have to take a step back and think about how many of these markets were in, you know, 10 or 12 year mark range bound patterns, whether that was platinum or palladium or copper or uranium. You know, a lot of these metals kind of zigged and zagged and didn't really do a whole lot while tech stocks were reaching all new highs. That period obviously led to very little capital investment, which is why we have shortages and scarcity of many of these metals today. So when capital starts to come back, you know, it can have an immediate impact on the values of these metals. And secondarily, you're seeing governments around the world, including the United States, obviously identify the strategic importance of a lot of these metals for energy security, national security. And there's a big, big push right now to reshore, not just mining in the United States, but also processing of these key minerals for defense technology, et cetera, you know, back to home soil. So you're seeing the potential, you know, introduction of government buying of metals and stockpiling metals. Kind of like, you know, what we had in the Cold War, which is obviously far behind us now. But it seems to be another buying group in the form of governments getting involved in some of these metal markets which are also pushing prices higher.
- [41:08]
Dan Nathan
A JC in this new sort of world order we're in. The repatriation of gold by a lot of countries is a story. How does that impact you at all? Does it impact you? I guess is a better question.
- [41:22]
John Campaglia
It doesn't impact us. I mean, we're able to buy Gold pretty easily in large volumes given the.
- [41:29]
Tim Seymour
The amount of production.
- [41:31]
John Campaglia
But I think you're raising an interesting point. As governments become less trustworthy of each other, you've seen some say, I want to move my metal, you know, out of the United States, for example.
- [41:42]
Tim Seymour
Remember?
- [41:42]
John Campaglia
Why was this metal moved in the first place? Well, after World War II and the beginning of the Cold War, governments in Europe were concerned about holding physical gold in their countries. So they diversified by holding it around the world the last five, six years. Governments are saying, we want to bring our metal home. And that's, that's, that's something we've seen in a number of instances.
- [42:04]
Melissa Lee
John, great to see you. Thank you. John Champagne of, of Sprott. And of course, you just got the news a couple days ago, national bank of Poland increasing the amount of gold that they are buying. They were the biggest buyer on record. At least. Of course, other people buy it and not report it, but biggest buyer on record last year. So we have that going. And Ray Dalio was talking about this in Davos. In terms of when you see governments not trusting each other, as John just mentioned, you buy something like gold.
- [42:27]
Guy Adami
Well, it's interesting and I'm very happy for our gold bug friends, obviously, gold. And I mean that sincerely. You know, David Rosenberg of Rosenberg Research, you know, he's been there for a long time. He has a 6,000 target, like soon.
- [42:39]
Eamon Jabers
Right.
- [42:40]
Guy Adami
And you know, a lot of you folks have been making a great case. It works risk on, it works risk off. That's something, I think that's new right now. And so again, this is a momentum trade, in my opinion. You guys have all laid out some good fundamental reasons to own it. But again, it's been hot momentum.
- [42:55]
Tim Seymour
Look, this didn't just happen, but China's central bank reserves are now 8% gold. That's big news. Guess what? Germany's are 80. Okay. Italy's are 75% gold. So you can't tell me that the rest of the world still doesn't have a lot of work to do here. And there's that stat that maybe some of you have heard, but I bet a lot of you haven't, is all the gold gold ever produced would fit on a football field. About a three foot high block. Not bigger than that, not on an ending. It takes six to nine months to get new gold online. There's not a lot of it. I just think people underestimate how much more demand there is.
- [43:28]
Melissa Lee
I like that set.
- [43:29]
Tim Seymour
That's cool.
- [43:30]
Melissa Lee
Yep. Coming up, Lulu's See through situation. An update on the retailers fashion faux pas and what founder Chip Wilson has to say about the blunder. The legging load down is next. More fast Money into. Welcome back to Fast Money. An update to a story we brought you earlier this week. Lululemon adding a warning label of sorts to its get low product line after customers complained products were ill fitting and too sheer. Visitors to the US and Canada websites are told that when stretched the knit will quote naturally flex apart. They are encouraged to size up and wear skin toned seamless underwear. Low rise bikini founder Chip Wilson also weighing In a LinkedIn post yesterday he blamed the board's lack of experience and creative business disinterest in product development and self interested priorities for the product line's failure. Shares of Lulu were 2 1/2% higher today but are still down 6.3% since the start of the year. You would have thought that somebody would have put a pair of those leggings on and squatted to see what happens. Like you test it out.
- [44:47]
Karen Feiderman
Especially since they've had this issue before. That's the part that makes me wonder is it sort of, you know, intended?
- [44:55]
Dan Nathan
Exactly.
- [44:56]
Tim Seymour
Oh boy. Guy is it Mac out in the gym.
- [44:59]
Guy Adami
Guy is it men doing the qa? That's the question.
- [45:04]
Melissa Lee
Yeah, good point.
- [45:05]
Guy Adami
Seriously.
- [45:06]
Karen Feiderman
Okay.
- [45:07]
Melissa Lee
Men are incompetent in qa.
- [45:09]
Guy Adami
Guy.
- [45:09]
Dan Nathan
This could be one of those genius marketing ploys where now they need.
- [45:13]
Tim Seymour
I mean does not tell you where Lulu is right now. If we're coming up with weird gimmicks to actually have sheer leggings. Guy that I think it's. I think you get back to where Lululemon really is in terms of their margin profile and in terms of where they are. We know the competitive landscape is where it is but they went into this downtrend at peak margin. I think that's the biggest issue here. I don't, you know, I don't think it's cheap here. I actually don't. I think it's getting cheaper.
- [45:41]
Melissa Lee
Flesh colored underwear.
- [45:42]
Dan Nathan
You look at me.
- [45:44]
Melissa Lee
You can use right here on Fast Money. Yes. Sounds kind of final traits. Final trade time. Tim.
- [46:07]
Tim Seymour
Yeah. The Sprott share price is up 30% year to date to gold 12. I think there's optionality and I think there's leverage in that company. And goes higher.
- [46:16]
Melissa Lee
Aaron.
- [46:17]
Karen Feiderman
Yep. So Citibank traded up very, very nicely then as banks came in and they. The credit card thing happened. Now we think that might be resolved. I like Citi bank.
- [46:27]
Tim Seymour
Right.
- [46:28]
Guy Adami
Yeah. Smh. I think is sell rallies. It's 25% above its 200 day moving average. It traded an all time high today. I think about this.
- [46:36]
Dan Nathan
If you want to send Tim flesh colored underwear send it to Tim Seymour care of NASDAQ Medium by the way.
- [46:43]
Tim Seymour
That pal no, let's just say that might be a little tight.
- [46:46]
Melissa Lee
Intel by the way is down 12% after hours. Thanks for watching fast. See you tomorrow and overtime. Mad money starts right now. All opinions expressed by the Fast Money participants are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of CNBC or its parent company or affiliates and may have been previously disseminated by them on television, radio, Internet or another medium. You should not treat any opinion expressed on this podcast as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of an opinion. Such opinions are based upon information the Fast Money participants consider reliable, but neither CNBC nor its affiliates and or subsidiaries warrant its completeness or accuracy and it should not be relied upon as such. To view the full Fast Money disclaimer, please visit cnbc.com fastmoneydisclaimer hey girl, what's happen? Is that your antiperspirant? Uh, yeah. Let me see that can. Aluminum, Butane? I cannot pronounce that.
- [47:42]
Christina Partsneveless
You have to switch to Native deodorant.
- [47:45]
Melissa Lee
Native's simple formula has only clean ingredients. It gives you effective 72 hour odor protection with no hydrocarbon propellants. Wow, this smells heavenly clean. Effective 72 hour odor protection isn't a myth, it's Native.