← CNBC's "Fast Money"
CNBC's "Fast Money"
Stocks Drop On Rate Concerns… And Disney Gears Up For Battle 11/13/25
00:43:40
Markets selling off as concerns over the interest rate outlook take center stage. The missing data and housing market stats pushing stocks lower, and where the traders are finding safety in the storm. Plus Disney drops as the media giant prepares for a lengthy YoutubeTV battle, Bitcoin tumbles below $100K, and how Chinese hackers used AI to attack organizations across the globe. Fast Money Disclaimer
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A
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B
Hey friends, this is Audie Cornish, host of CNN THIS morning. And the assignment and guess what? Every story you care about, every angle you want unpacked is now streaming on cnn. That means you can catch my show or other CNN programming whenever you favorite device. And a subscription also gets you access to exclusive video series and unlimited articles. So subscribe to CNN at CNN.com/subscription. Live in the NASDAQ markets and in the heart of New York City's Times Square, this is fast money. Here's what's on tap tonight. A market sell off the tech trade losing steam in a big way and pulling the NASDAQ into the red for the week. All major indices closing just off the lows of the day. Is this a pause that refreshes or a sign of deeper troubles? Plus, Disney's not so magical quarter shares. The entertainment giant sinking after its latest report is a move justified in what's next for the stock? Plus, crypto crumbling below a key support level. Cyber stocks sink on news of an AI orchestrated hack and housing headaches. New data showing a big spike in foreclosures last month. What's behind the rise and what's it say about the state of the consumer? I'm Melissa Lee comes along studio be at the NASDAQ on the desk tonight, Tim Seymour, Courtney Garcia, Steve Grasso and Mike Koh. We start off with the markets going back into sell off mode. The Nasdaq dropping more than 2% today, posting its lowest close of the month. The S and P and Dow each shedding more than 1.6%. Fears about valuations in the trade weighing on tech stocks. All but one member of the Mag 7 down today with Tesla's 6/ percent drop leading the losses. The group losing a combined half trillion dollars in market cap just today. Also spooky investors new commentary from sending chances of a rate cut in December sharply lower marks. Markets had been pricing in a more than 60% chance of a move just yesterday. Now there's about a 5050 shot. So what do you make of today's action is a sign of some real air coming out of the air trade. Certainly what we saw in terms of the NASDAQ 100 doing worse, semiconductors doing much worse. RSP = and P doing better than the relative than the Tech heavy indices.
- [02:22]
A
I think relative is the term of the day. I mean it's all, you know, in terms of taking even some of the Fed out of the equation. If we're talking about missing out on 25 basis points points if a suddenly hawkish Fed is, is going to hit the tap the brakes. I don't know that that even really matters on the story for equities. But it's amazing how on a relative basis we're talking about valuations today, we're talking about data that we had already said we weren't going to get that now we're concerned we don't have. So I think it's, it's, it's again, it's all relative to where we are approaching this from. This is the third kind of big sell off day we've had in a couple of weeks starting to become more than just a one off. It is starting to look as if some of the key levels that we bounced nicely off the 50 last week that was resounding. But suddenly you're testing again. So I think it's a case where the Fed, as we always say it tends to be paramount in the, in the context of market and momentum and where we feel, I'm not sure that much traded, excuse me, change today in terms of the outlook. But there's no question we suddenly are thinking about the things that we weren't thinking about yesterday.
- [03:21]
B
Yeah, I mean obviously the Fed, it's part of the equation but it doesn't seem like the reason, the reason why there is air coming out of the air trade and also there's nothing new necessarily in the concerns I trade when it comes to return on investment. We knew that they're issuing loads of debt in order to pay for this capex. It's not like anything has really changed. It's just investors are scrutinizing that now.
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C
Yeah. And I think this just rubber hit the road type, type time when you look at it, November and December are really your best months seasonally to be invested in the marketplace and if that flips on its head, it's going to hurt a lot of people. Market always sets up to hurt the most amount of people at any given time. If we have a down December, it's going to be painful. Crypto is hitting a wall. So does crypto get back on the horse? Does that run back higher? If you look at the seven names that are responsible for all the gains, they need lower rates. Right. You need. So if December doesn't happen, it's a problem for the market, Corey?
- [04:17]
D
Yeah, I mean when you look at today, there was no, not a ton of news to your point. I mean nothing really changed the picture on valuations. But what did happen is we got an end to the government shutdown, which you saw this run on the optimism that was going to happen. And now it's actually happened. And I think some of that's already been priced in. But now people are realizing, okay, we're not going to get some of that government data that we were hoping we were going to get. And that is actually what's leading to maybe we are going to get these rates cuts. Because if we're not going to get this data, it's not going to be there. And I think that's what some of the sell off is. And you are going to get after such a good run in the markets, you're going to get some profit taking, you're going to get some rotation out there. So I don't think this is something to be overly concerned about. But yes, you are going to see these days happen after these big run ups that we've seen.
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B
Mike, what do you make of the sell off today and how have you positioned in the markets?
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E
Well, we, we have positioned to slightly lower beta. I mean we did have a lot of high beta names. We did add considerably to Nvidia that's going to be in the filings overnight. But we bought a big piece of that. You know, I think to Tim's point, you know, the 25 basis points, that that wasn't really the important aspect. The question really was do we have an accommodative Fed or not? And if you do, it's tough to hit bids going into that.
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F
Right.
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E
But if you suddenly get into a new framework, a new paradigm where we don't think that's the case, that is a little bit ticklish. Now one other thing I would note is that what we saw was a lot of volatility in some of the highest flying names. I mean I saw a lot of names in the book that were swinging around by high single digits, even hitting as much as percent moves in some of sort of the really high beta stuff. And I think what that tells me is that some of the weaker hands are the ones that in the more speculative things are getting shaken loose. But you know, we have the 50 day and probably Steve can speak to this because he's more of a technician than I. I kind of feel like we're getting to a truth moment in both Bitcoin, which I'm a Long term bull on, but has been in a pronounced downtrend for a while here. And I feel like this is that moment of truth. I mean, if you look at a really long term trend in bitcoin, so just say you're looking at weeklies going back to early 2023. We, we have been sort of in this uptrend and it feels like we're right on the border here of testing this again. And I kind of feel like we can hold this, then we could actually have a pretty good Christmas. But I feel like if we break it, then a lot of the things that are associated with that trade are going to break along with it.
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B
I mean, some would say, and Steve, I know you're watching the 100k level on Bitcoin, some would say that that break below 100k was important. One, it broke 189 day streak above 100k in terms of closes for bitcoin. So something has changed. Even if you just look at this as a barometer of sentiment, something has changed.
- [07:03]
C
Risk on, risk off. And that's the barometer. And the 100k works better than any other moving averages because it's just a mental level that you're looking at. The problem is what I think is entered into the equation is the ETFs have allowed you to be in and out of names a lot quicker than institutions can get in and out instead of holding them in wallets. So that to me, you have a lot of turnover and a lot of money coming in and out of those ETFs, which has to replicate itself in the actual coin. So I think that's changed the dynamic considerably.
- [07:33]
A
Yeah, that's fair. I mean, you know, the asset can move around a lot faster. The velocity of trading could happen, it could be more volatile. Of all the things that are selling off, I have to say, and it's not like I've been a digital freak on this desk, but I think bitcoin is the least of the things that bother me. It doesn't, you know, a 20% pullback in Bitcoin means nothing in the context of what has been a ferocious bull market. And these types of pullbacks, as we say, are garden variety. So I would be more concerned if I started to actually see the fallout if matter really takes the next step lower. If some of the real horses of this last, this last move higher are unable to hold the ground. I think that's something to think about. But all we've talked about over the last three weeks, at least on days when we take it for granted. We don't really play up the days where semis outperformed the S and P that much. We talk about the days where health care rotation is alive and well in industrials and companies like GM and Ford are actually catching one of the best bids they've had ever. You know that to me is something that's been slowly going on here. So being suddenly worried about valuations, I would be more worried about the anecdotal information that we're now working a little bit harder to get from some of the companies talking about hiring. We've had more jobs cuts out there, but people that are thinking about the AI trade and is that falling out of bed all we keep hearing from? Not just hyperscalers about the commitments, not just from Nvidia, but even I was reading some reports about the Edison Institute which is basically the group that follows the utility trends around data center. There also is no fall off in demand for power build out. There's all the trades that at least to me are part of why valuations have gone where they are are not falling out of bed. Have we priced them in? Yeah, I think it's, it's Steve, we're all framing the idea of it just depends on what your appetite is on. Risk and momentum and a snapshot. But nothing has changed.
- [09:17]
B
Yeah, I mean as I mentioned at the top of the show, equal weighted S&P 500 its losses say were about half of the broader index. And this goes to your point Tim, in terms of the air may be coming out of the air trade but we have seen a rotation to a lot of other sectors like health care, like some of these auto stocks, some more beaten down names. Mike. And maybe that is sort of a healthy reconfiguration of the market at this point. I don't know what your take is. If you take a look, we're talking about sentiment parameters. Oracle, CBS spiking today, that's another. I mean I don't know if you think if Oracle is going to default on its debt. Probably not, but this is a measure of sentiment in terms of how people are thinking about this debt that's being issued.
- [09:57]
E
Yeah, we saw that big pop in Oracle a while back and then all of a sudden it's basically the bloom's completely off the rose there. I'm not terribly concerned about Oracle. We, we did actually had to add some Oracle today as well. So now that that name's come up we might as well give that a mention. I don't think the market is Also expensive. This is one of the things I keep hearing is people complaining about, you know, some of the highest flying stocks being expensive. I mean Alphabet is not expensive and Amazon is not expensive and Nvidia is not expensive. They're valuable and I think there's a pretty big difference. And so I think a lot of these things this might actually present a little bit of a buying opportunity. That would kind of be my view. And actually I was glad that Tim brought up Ford because I also think that General Motors is sort of right alongside and they actually have a autonomous driving play embedded. I mean I realize that they've downsized the cruise investment and they've sort of on shorter but that's still a valuable asset and I think it's underappreciated.
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B
All right, well let's get to a mover. In the after hour session, shares of Applied Materials dropping despite the company beating top and bottom line estimates. Upping the guidance as well. The confere call is underway. The stock is down about 4%. Christina Parks and Evils has got all the details. Christina.
- [11:11]
G
Thanks Melissa. Analysts that actually I already slashed their forecast after weak guidance last quarter. So today's beat really comes against a lower bar. But on the earnings call, what are we hearing? The CEO highlighted the near term challenge was actually China because of those export controls imposed by the US. China was 28% of systems revenue in fiscal 2025 but fell to 25% in the fourth quarter. And the CEO actually expects equipment demand to be weaker in the fiscal 20. But the growth story of course is shifting to AI. The CEO said they're getting more than one year of visibility with multiple customers as they ramp up their AI factories. Right now much of that advanced chip spending is going to lithography according to the CEO. And that's where ASML dominates. But Applied Materials believes that sets up demand for Applied Equipment as those chips move through the production line. So they're going to see more later on. Management also expects high bandwidth memory and leading edge foundry logic to be the first fastest growing areas of the semi equipment market which would add to the positive demand narrative for memory makers like Micron and SanDisk. Bottom line, they're calling for stronger demand in the second half of 2026.
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B
Melissa. All right Christina. Thanks Christina. Parts nebulous. We are seeing AMAD as I mentioned down in the after hours but also the HBM makers, the memory makers that Christina had mentioned, they are also trading lower. My co where are you in this trade if anywhere?
- [12:32]
E
Yeah, I mean we have a decent amount of exposure to it as one might expect as I referenced it at the, at the top. I do think we don't have a whole lot of amat though. You know, I personally think that where we should probably be focusing our time and attention just as investors is, is looking at the highest quality stuff and thinking of this as an opportunity to buy a little bit more of a discount. And the other thing is I also have this sense that retail investors often underappreciated for what they can do for the market. They have been buying pretty aggressively almost every dip they've been provided and they're getting one now. And I have a feeling that they're going to ride in a little bit, maybe to the rescue of us pros perhaps. But there is a lot of money there that is available to be deployed here. And I think some of these names had flown pretty far pretty fast and people have been looking for an opportunity to get them at a discount and now they have one.
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D
Yeah, and this is a, this is a company here which has actually outperformed the overall sector.
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B
Right.
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D
So it's up almost 37% year to date, which is better than the semiconductor overall category. So I think what you're seeing here is some of this was just a high bar and I think you're seeing some overall markets are down plus a high bar and you're seeing some of that taken off the table here. I think what's probably going to be a bigger mover and more important to watch is in video because that's obviously a much bigger part of the markets here which is coming next week. So I think that's something that we probably want to watch even more so than their earnings here.
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C
If you look at it, this is the one that's probably the easiest on valuation trades at the cheapest P E relative to its peers trades are approximately 26 times when the whole group trades at mid-30s. So if you're looking for a reason and if you looking at AI, you need dram and DRAM has been growing exponentially for a man. So when you look at it as a whole, if you're looking to bottom fish and looking to get some on a discount, you're getting the cheapest valuation in the whole group.
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B
All right, Meantime, new foreclosures, data jumping 20% from a year ago in October, an eighth straight month of increases. For more, let's bring in CNBC's Diana Olek who's got the latest on these numbers. Diana?
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G
Well, Melissa, while the numbers are still small, the persistent rise in foreclosures may be a sign of cracks in the housing market. There were nearly 37,000 U.S. properties with some type of foreclosure filing in October.
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B
That's default notices, scheduled auctions, or bank.
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G
Repossessions, according to Adam, a property data firm.
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B
That was 3% higher than September and.
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G
A 19% jump from October of last year. It marked the eighth straight month of annual increases. Foreclosure starts, which are the initial phase of the process, rose 6% for the month and 20% higher than the year before. Completed foreclosures, that's the last phase, jumped 32% year over year. Florida, South Carolina and Illinois led the nation in state foreclosure filings. On a metro level, Florida's Tampa, Jacksonville and Orlando had the most filings, with Riverside, California and Cleveland rounding out the top five. Again, the base numbers are still low, but it's not a good sign going forward.
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B
Melissa it is not. Diana. Thank you, Diana Olek. And of course, in the absence of official government data, you look at all these other data points and you create a mosaic right in your head in terms of what is going on in the economy. You've got this. Everybody knows about the auto delinquencies right now. You have the reports Today, Verizon's cutting 15,000 jobs. I mean, I don't know. These other sources of data don't look great. That great.
- [15:44]
A
No, they don't look great. And I think there have been, there's been evidence within some of the subsectors around either consumer finance or mortgage finance. I mean, Walker Dunlap, look at that name. That name has really been under trouble. And I think if you've been expecting this to get worse, and I do mean delinquencies, this is how a lot of call them. The professionals are out there playing it. So, yes, we don't have data. We're looking for other anecdotes. We're reading through all of these research reports, and what we're hearing about the consumer right now is not great.
- [16:12]
D
And you're clearly seeing that consumers are under pressure right now. And I think this is another one of those signs. But I think one of the reasons the markets overall is not as impactful is because when you look at this, that 20% jump sounds shocking. But the overall mortgages that are in foreclosure is less than half a percent, which is actually below the historical average, which is like between 11 2%. So I think that initial gut sounds bad. And there's definitely cracks in the consumer. I Think that's what you want to take away from this. But it's not an overall problem, though. We're going into an imminent recession. That's not what I hear when you hear this.
- [16:43]
B
And that's exactly the argument that people say about auto delinquencies. Historically, they are still low, but they are ticking higher. I mean, at some point it is worth watching.
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C
Yeah, I mean, mortgage, mortgage rates are really the holy grail to this. If mortgage rates can come in and you don't really know how to bring mortgage rates in in a very accurate sniper like fashion, but that's keeping a bunch of money trapped in people's homes and existing home sales, where you see that bifurcation between new home sales and existing home sales. If you could unlock that money that people have in their home, mortgage rates have to come down below five and a half percent to unlock that, to get people out of the home that they're in.
- [17:19]
B
Meantime, Mike, co, the housing trade, how do you feel about that?
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E
Well, I mean, it's a difficult situation if we don't start to see some, as Steve was just referencing, seeing rates. Rates come down. And just to quickly address the comment you were making about auto loan delinquencies, there are a couple of businesses that have had a tremendous run and most notably, I would say Carvana. You know, Carvana is a stock that depends very sort of heavily on the fact that they are associated with the ability to essentially finance anybody. I think it's right on their website that they guarantee, you know, 99% approvals. And the issue is that we have this rising delinquency. We saw the CarMax results, that those were not solid. And this thing has had one of the most epic round trips that I think we've ever seen. And I think we continue to see persistently bad, you know, basically auto loan delinquencies is one part of it, but the other part of it also is the inventory levels. So if you start to see the value of those inventories roll over, I kind of feel like Carvana is one of these things that I could see. It's right above the 200, actually, as I'm looking at this right now. But this one feels like it's got a lot of air under it if things get any worse in that space.
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B
Coming up, Disney's dilemma. How the media giant streaming endeavors are holding things up and the lengthy YouTube TV battle they're gearing up for. Don't go anywhere. Fast Money's back in 2000.
- [18:39]
A
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FedEx, the new power move. Welcome back to Fast Money. Disney shares tumbling almost 8% today, its worst day since April. The media giant reporting better than expected earnings before the bell, but missing revenue. Disney's TV networks and movie business weighing on results. The company is also in a carriage dispute with YouTube TV. CNBC founder and current contributor Tom Rogers joins us now with his reaction. Tom was the first president of NBC Cable and is now senior adviser to Versant Media, which will soon become CNBC's parent company. Tom, it's always great to see you.
- [20:24]
F
Great to be here.
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B
So what's your take on Disney's earnings in the context of the media landscape changing so quickly around it?
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F
Well, I think there was probably greater expectation that there was going to be some acceleration on the streaming front, which of course is the future of the company. They certainly have stability in the parks area. But the exciting part that people really want to see growing is the streaming. And there really wasn't any clear indication of a catalyst there. So I think that was the major disappointment. Certainly when it came to linear, everybody expected the traditional side of the TV business to be weak. It was. But relative to many of its peers, it did better. So I can't really point to that as being a basis for this kind of market reaction.
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B
What I thought was really interesting was when CEO Bob Iger on the conference call was talking about Disney plus as a platform, which is going to be much more than just a content platform, almost like a super app where I will help connect Disney fans to other parts of the Disney business like the theme parks as well as movies, etc. I guess the street wasn't moved by that But I'm just curious, Tom, to see what your reaction is to that sort of grand plan because in the longer term that seems like an interesting idea.
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F
Well, I think it is an interesting idea and there are clearly things they could do to bring in a greater notion of membership by their consumers into Disney through the Disney plus. I think they first got to show that they can integrate Hulu well bundle ESPN and its streaming form. Well, I think they pointed to the fact that 80% of ESPN subs were part of a Disney Hulu bundle, which is promising because that really is going to be the strength for them to build on AI and new elements of what that can be. Being the only player in the streaming marketplace that really has strength in children and families, strength and adult strength and sports all in one place at the magnitude and depth they do. And they really got to show that that's going to be a catalyst. I think there were so few new Disney plus subs for the ESPN streaming service to attach to that it hasn't proven to be a catalyst yet. If they can prove that that's really going to re accelerate their growth in the streaming area, I think that's something that people might get exc Godfather.
- [23:02]
A
I know we're the fast money traders, but I feel like the stock overreacted today. I know these numbers weren't, you know, they didn't provide that preview into a catalyst. But at a time when the ESPN streaming clearly I think is given more intrinsic value. I mean the question is, are they going have to spend too much on sports rights? But this is a company that also they're finally, you know, they're buying back $7 billion of shares. This is a company that actually the balance sheet looks like it's really overcome what was a very difficult time during COVID So play investor trader here with us. You are the guy that sees the industry from the top down and always have. But you know, Disney has done nothing for a long time. Haven't we priced in this lethargy? And the DTC business is largely pretty solid.
- [23:47]
F
Well, you're right, they're not getting progress for a lot of things here that they, they deserve credit for. The fact of the matter is that I came on this show for the last five years saying, hey, what all these traditional media companies have to prove is that the improvement in streaming is going to outweigh the decline in traditional media. And they've proved that they are actually growing faster in streaming than the decline in linear. Now they've also proved that when it comes to the Percentage of their engagement that is coming from streaming, it's about the majority of their engagement now comes from there. And the majority of the revenue is coming from the streaming side. So they've got a lot of transformation that they should take credit for. On the other hand, this was their last quarter of announcing numbers. Now, Netflix did the same thing. But Netflix, when it stopped, was growing 40 million subs a year with 30% margins. And Disney's growing 11 million subs a year, a lot of which are wholesale subs under a charter deal. So very different than the kind of Netflix subs that were coming on board. And when Netflix said no more sub numbers, they pointed everybody to engagement. That that's going to be what we really want you to focus on, how well we bring people into the viewership. But Disney didn't even mention engagement on the call. And I found it very strange that they kind of left people a bit adrift of now. What are the metrics to measure us now? Certainly revenue growth is 1, but they're growing at about half the rate of streaming revenue growth of Netflix. So there wasn't anything there to get people excited about.
- [25:41]
B
Tom, always great to speak with you and get your take.
- [25:43]
F
Tom Rogers, thanks for having me.
- [25:46]
C
It's.
- [25:47]
A
It's a shame guy's not here to big stuff. We just kind of. Sort of did.
- [25:52]
B
Kind of did. Yeah.
- [25:52]
A
It's nice.
- [25:53]
B
So Disney, right here, 107, we're pretty much in the middle of nowhere. I mean, it's been between 80 and 1 3, you know, years or so. Even 10 years if you go back further. I mean, where are we here?
- [26:05]
C
Well, Disney, if you look at the performance, if you compare it to Netflix, you have one up 30% for the year.
- [26:10]
E
Year.
- [26:10]
C
And one somewhere down 3% or more for the year. But if Tom's not impressed with streaming, streaming is the only thing that's going to save the company. You're not going to get it from Parks and Entertainment, which are at record revenue levels. So if he is not enamored by that streaming growth, I think you got to kind of sit this one out until that linear decline. Does that slow bleed to a wall?
- [26:31]
B
Yeah, Mike is attempting it all here.
- [26:34]
E
Disney. Disney is not Netflix. You know, Netflix held up really well today, I think, on a very choppy day. And here's the thing. If you want to be exposed to streaming, then you kind of have to be exposed to the best of breed. Netflix is certainly that. I do wish we had an opportunity to pick up a little bit more around 1000 bucks. It is trading at a bit of a premium to its historical multiple. It's about 36, 37 times forward here right now, but it's growing fast. It's got better than 30% year on year, free cash flow growth. I think Netflix is the place to be in this space.
- [27:03]
B
Coming up, as more Americans struggle to afford life saving medications, a cottage industry is stepping in and promising patients free or cheap drugs. But CNBC investigation reveals where the prescriptions may be coming from, potentially putting lives at risk. You're watching Fast MONEY live from the NASDAQ marketsite in Times Square. Back right after this. Hey friends, this is Audie Cornish, host of CNN this Morning and the Assignment. And guess what? Every story you care about, every angle you want unpacked is now streaming on cnn. That means you can catch my show or other CNN programming whenever you want on your favorite device. And a subscription also gets you access to exclusive video series and unlimited articles. So subscribe to CNN@CNN.com subscription at Capella University, learning the right skills could make a difference. That's why our business programs teach you relevant skills you can take from the courseroom to the workplace. A different future is closer than you think with Capella University. Learn more at capella. Edu welcome back to Fast Money. Stocks posting their worst day in over a month. The dow snapping a four day winning streak plummeting nearly 800 points. The S&P down more than 1.5% and the tech heavy Nasdaq leading the losses down more than 2%. Tesla getting particularly hit hard. Shares dropping nearly 7% today putting the stock in negative territory for the year. Shares of Alibaba meantime getting a bump on reports the China tech giant is revamping its mobile AI app to compete more directly with Chat GPT. The report saying the company is building a fully functioning AI agent with plans for a global rollout and some after hours action. Stubhub out with its first earnings report as a public company. The ticket reseller beating revenue estimates its but falling after hours to the tune of almost 10% at this point. Tim, curious to get your thoughts on on Baba.
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A
Well we're about to get some earnings also coming out next week and it's nice that it gets a bit of this tailwind from the concept that they can do almost anything that they want. Same trends and themes that are going on here. I do think the strength of Ali cloud is is really underappreciated by investors. I do think there are other pieces of the revenue story recovery and it's less about The E commerce growth. So I just think a company that trades around 18 times with 30% of its of its market cap in cash is as if we're worried about valuations right now. This isn't the issue and the opportunity in the addressable market here, not the issue.
- [29:35]
B
Well, bringing down the high cost of prescription drugs has been a top priority for the Trump administration. But it's not been fast enough for employers and families who are desperate for a solution. My new CNBC investigation uncovers popular insurance schemes that offer huge savings on medications but could put patient lives in danger. A question being asked across the country, how can I afford my prescription drugs? Prices are skyrocketing. It's a broken system and we need to make sure everyone is paying attention. With some specialty medications costing tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars per year and prescription drug prices in the U.S. averaging nearly three times more than in other countries, driving people and employers to find a solution. It's such a desperate thing to think.
- [30:24]
A
That you might not have your medication at all.
- [30:27]
B
A booming cottage industry is selling itself as an antidote, often getting the drugs overseas for a fraction of the cost.
- [30:35]
A
We do a public service, we help.
- [30:37]
B
People get access to medications, but there's a major catch. What they're doing is illegal and it's putting American lives at risk. What I tell my friends and family is that the most expensive medicine that they could get is one that isn't safe, isn't effective or isn't high quality and doesn't meet the standards that are in FDA approved medicines. Patients and employers are desperate for a solution. The question is, at what cost? The FDA says it's illegal to import drugs that are available and sold in the United States. All of these drugs are in fact available domestically. Correct. This is just a preview of our full length documentary. To catch the entire story, go to cnbc.com riskyrx and you might have heard of a lot of people going overseas to get medicines, medical tourism, et cetera. This is very different because this is happening through employer health plans. So think about cash straps. Employers think, you know, small businesses on main street, municipalities, school boards, they don't have a lot of extra money. They want to save costs. So they tell their health plan administrator, find a way. And they say, okay, we're going to carve out the coverage of expensive specialty medicines, medicines that cover things like cancer, multiple sclerosis, cystic fibrosis, and we are going to let what's known as an afp, an alternative funding program, handle that coverage. What the programs do is they source the medication from overseas. They get paid a flat fee or percentage of the savings. The patients get the drug at little or no cost. The AFPs make money. Seems like everybody wins. Except that the patient doesn't really know if he or she is getting the medicine that they need. They don't know if it is potent enough, if it's effective or if it is real.
- [32:24]
A
But more than anything, they're getting it from seemingly a trustee source which is not a trusted source.
- [32:29]
G
Right.
- [32:29]
B
You're going through your insurance plan.
- [32:31]
A
If you're going to trust anybody, you're going to go through the plan that your company sent you to. And in fact you have no other choice. So you're tied into another one of your great documentaries.
- [32:42]
B
These are not fly by night insurance plans either. There is a case that we cover in the documentary and involves a Gilead medication. Gilead is suing the insurance plan. Maritime Health is a division of Aetna, which is owned by cvs. They're saying that Maritane basically outsourced the coverage which led to a patient receiving Biktarvy, an HIV prep medication directly from a Turkish pharmacy. The drug had Turkish packaging, the label was in Turkey. The instructions were in Turkish. Excuse me, the instructions were in Turkish. And that's when the patient alerted Gilead. So Gilead didn't even know. Gilead didn't know until this patient said, hey, look at what I got.
- [33:22]
C
Did you find out, not to give away the ending, but did you find out a lot of stuff that you didn't know by the time you got to the conclusion of it? Did you find out any conclusion where you could make it, where you have a solution to a better end route?
- [33:35]
B
I think that the issue here is that like Tim said, a lot of patients, they do not have a choice. We submitted over 100 public records requests. We combed through 10,000 documents, emails, contracts, invoices. And what we found is that for a lot of patients, they may say we want to opt out, but the employer will say, well then you pay for it out of pocket. And that is prohibitive when you're talking about these specialty medications. So it's a really tough spot. This is all born out of a broken health care system, which we all know is a problem. All right, so again, it's cnbc.
- [34:06]
A
Can't wait to watch it. That's awesome.
- [34:08]
B
Coming up, crypto tumbling into the sell off bitcoin back below $100,000. What's hitting the space?
- [34:13]
E
Space.
- [34:13]
B
And our next guest is speaking of security. In the space with a new exchange. The details, money returns. Welcome back to Fast Money. Bitcoin dropping below $100,000 today, hitting its lowest level in six months. The move coming as investors grow increasingly nervous about the risk on trade rate cut odds and the security of their tokens. Our next guest company just launched its CD5 decentralized exchange aimed at improving security and market access to new crypto users. Ok, ex Global Managing partner and Chief Marketing officer Hyder Rafik joins us now. Hyder, great to have you with us.
- [34:50]
H
Thanks for having Melissa.
- [34:52]
B
First I want to talk to you about what is going on in crypto right now and whether or not you think that break below 100k is, is important in terms of the next leg, either lower or higher for bitcoin.
- [35:04]
H
I don't think so. I think this is a post government shutdown era or phase rather. I think consumers are taking some risk off the table. This is close to end of year and people are just managing their portfolios accordingly. They want to see how the Feds are going to react to the interest rates. And I think all that speculation is creating this pullback in the market. Now one thing to consider is this is an asset that trades at $100,000. So when there's a 3, 4% pullback, people really see that feeling pronounced. If you look at traditional equities, they can trade between, you know, a few hundred dollars. So if you see a 20% pullback on equities, it may not feel as troubling as one does with, with bitcoin.
- [35:44]
C
Hi there. So when you see the defined market, it's growing exponentially quicker than the centralized market, but it's obviously coming from a lower base. When you look at the hacks that Melissa just spoke about, when you look at that and then you see where the market's going, cold wallet, hot wallet, it, it seems like the, the unbelievable growth is where you're at right now versus the centralized, where the other players already exist. The growth is so much more than the other players.
- [36:15]
H
Well look on the exchange, we've seen about $88 billion worth of DAX trading volume just this year alone. But we're also a centralized exchange. So I think the key thing that we're looking at is when lower cap assets get get put out in market, they first get listed on dex markets. A lot of retail is actually attracted to those early markets before they become primary markets. And the way we signify primary markets is when an asset gets listed on a centralized exchange. And for a lot of retail and institutions they think maybe that's a little too late for capturing the, you know, the entire upside of their lifecycle. So I think it's very interesting we're going to continue to see DAX markets trade billions and billions of volume, compete with centralized exchanges. But we've got to consider one thing. Trading on a Dex is quite complex in its nature. It's built on top of a self custody wallet. One's got to back up their seed phrases, figure out how to fund a really complex crypto wallet, and then figure out how to swap between assets before you can actually place your actual trade. This is why we've launched this product called cdfi. We're supporting Solana and Base Network. The reality is we're not the first ones to do it. Just probably a month ago, Coinbase was the one that launched their CD5 feature, introducing base Dex markets. We've done exactly that. We've introduced Base, but we've also added Solana. That makes us unique in the current market.
- [37:43]
B
So can I just ask you a question to better understand how this is all working? So you have the decentralized centralized exchange, which is complicated probably for, for many retail traders, and then you have this layer on top of it that makes it easier to approach. Is that layer in any way centralized in and of itself just by the nature of it being that support layer, that wrapper?
- [38:04]
H
Well, I think there could be components that one could argue have some centralized components, but I wouldn't say that it's completely centralized, that we still take care of the overall ethos of decentralized markets. So the way to think about it is if you open up the app today, you see a number of different assets. We've included a new tab called Dex. When you click on this tab and you select any of the tokens, you're now able to use your exchange balance or your fiat balance and go in and out of these positions. The only thing you have to do is quickly create a wallet, but it's not as cumbersome as a defi wallet. You're able to store your backup phrase into your passkey on your device. You're able to use your exchange balance balance. You don't have to worry about the slippage. You typically, you typically have to consider the risk on a DAX market. And lastly, we still have compliance controls here. We do transaction monitoring. We look at the quality of assets to make sure that we still have a healthy two sided marketplace.
- [39:03]
B
Hyder, great to see you. Thanks. Hyder Rafiq, thank you. Coming up, Under Armour getting benched by NBA star Steph Curry is ending his partnership with the athletic apparel maker. Longer and much more on the big business of sports. Back right after this. Welcome back to Fast Money. We are watching shares of Under Armour after hours. The company just announcing it is parting ways with one of its biggest stars. Alex Sherman's got the details on this one. Alex.
- [39:32]
I
Yeah, Melissa, some breaking news. Under Armour and Curry brand officially splitting ways, ending a 13 year partnership. Steph Curry really put Under Armour on the map in terms of athletic sponsorship for an athlete. He has built out this brand over a number of years, released many different shoes, other apparel. But under armour is down 40% this year. Has really struggled recently, both from a revenue standpoint and really a branding standpoint. And in a statement, Under Armour saying it wants to focus on its core UA brand, Curry brand will be free to find another partner. Steph Curry maintains sole ownership of it. There are a number of athletes that are under Curry brand from what I am told, ua, Under Armour will maintain contracts with those athletes, but Curry brand will have the right of first refusal.
- [40:30]
B
Alex, it's amazing to think about how long Steph Curry has been with Under Armour. Associated with Under Armour. He signed with them, I believe, in October of 2013. The stock meantime is down by about 76%. How hot of a brand does Steph Curry become now after being associated with Under Armour and its decline?
- [40:53]
I
You know, in one way it makes sense, I think, to end this relationship. UA obviously does need to focus on its core brand. Steph Curry's winding down his basketball career, potentially maybe moving into golf more. I mean, he told our own CNBC Sport, we did sort of a mini production with him earlier this year. And he mentioned, look, I may actually want to get into the Senior Tour when I turn 50. So potentially a new partnership there makes sense for both sides. But look, Curry is still one of the top NBA stars. He will likely play for at least several more years. So I would expect he will be quite a hot commodity. The interesting thing is that the Curry brand really represents sort of being the underdog. So it'll be interesting to see if whatever partner he ends up with here maintains that underdog relationship. Like for instance, certainly he turned down Nike back in 2013 to join under Armour. Nike, not particularly an underdog. So we'll have to wait and see who his new partner ends up being.
- [41:56]
B
Yep. Alex. Thanks, Alex. Sherman, we do have an update on StubHub's earnings. Shares are now down sharply in the after hours session after the CEO said in the conference call that it would not be giving guidance for the current quarter. Down 20% here, lowest price since going public back in September. Well, how do you. I don't know. I don't look at this gap. Okay.
- [42:16]
C
I don't, I don't. I haven't been trading this. This is the kind of thing you want to see how it flushes out and see where the smoke clears. This has not been. It always feels like there's some controversy over ticket prices and the retail investor. It always seems like a lot of fog that I can't see clearly through.
- [42:33]
B
All right, coming up, a first of its kind, a cyber attack. How a Chinese group use Anthropic quad model in its latest hack and what it means for the cybersecurity landscape. You've got the details on Fast Money returns. Welcome back to Fast Money. Cybersecurity stocks tumbling today after Anthropic revealed Chinese hackers had used its AI tool CLAUDE to automate cyber attacks. Clouds like cloud, stocks like Cloudflare, Sentinel One and Crowdstrike seeing outsized losses. CNBC's MacKenzie Seagal has got more on the attack. MacKenzie.
- [43:07]
G
Hey, that's right, Mel. Crowdstrike and Palo Alto Networks also moving lower after Anthropic disclosed what it said is the first documented case of an AI orchestrated cyber attack. It's a major headwind for these cybersecurity names as companies realize that they're not just fighting hackers, they are now up against AI that works around the clock. So what we learned today was that in September, a Chinese state backed group jailbroke Anthropic's CLAUDE model and then used its agenta capabilities to automate a sophisticated global espionage campaign targeting governments and major corporations. Now Anthropic says it marked a shift from what it previously described as vibe hacking, where humans were still directing the attack. But in this case, AI was very much in the driver's seat, finding weak spots, breaking in, stealing sensitive data, and doing it all with barely any human involvement. Anthropic says this is a turning point, warning that AI has moved from assistant to operator and unless defenders adopt the same tech, they risk falling behind. But I will say, Mel, a rare bright spot is cyber insurance. Names like aig, Chubb, and Travelers moved higher after the report.
- [44:16]
B
Does Anthropic take any? Do they say, yeah, we could have done more to prevent this?
- [44:22]
G
They're pointing to the vulnerabilities and the fact that the tools that they, you know, are being used to these, to these purposes can also be used for the names that are meant to defend against it. And they're also pointing to like the rapid development development of what hackers are capable of. It was just August that North Korean operatives were using CLAUDE models to fraudulently secure and maintain remote jobs at US Tech companies. We also have seen ransomware as a service use CLAUDE models as its base. So yes, they acknowledge the fact that they're trying to get ahead of it, but it can also be used for some of these cyber detection tools as well.
- [45:00]
B
Mac thanks. Mackenzie Seagal US up next, final trades, final trade time.
- [45:12]
E
Mike Koh yeah, Alphabet is valuable and its options are expensive. I like it for a buy, right?
- [45:18]
A
Timothy In a world where valuations look tough, UPS's valuation is not and I think there's some momentum there.
- [45:24]
D
Courtney I think some of the reaction day Disney was a little over exactly exaggerated. I think it might be worth taking a look here.
- [45:29]
C
Steven Sometimes feel like an hour goes quicker than an hour is felt like it was a quick show. Did that not feel quick to you?
- [45:36]
A
Yeah, a good time.
- [45:37]
C
I like the car companies. I like Ford. I like gm. I like Ford better.
- [45:40]
B
All right, thanks for watching Fast. Check out Risky RX Online. Mad Money with Jim Cramer starts now. All opinions expressed by the Fast Money participants are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of cnbc, NBC Universal, their parent company or affiliates, and may have been previously disseminated by them on television, radio, Internet or another medium. You should not treat any opinion expressed on this podcast as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of an opinion. Such opinions are based upon information the Fast Money participants consider reliable, but neither CNBC nor its affiliates and or subsidiaries warrant its completeness or accuracy and it should not be relied upon as such. To view the full Fast Money disclaimer, please visit cnbc.com fastmoneydisclaimer Is it time to reimagine your future? The right business skills may make a difference in your career. At Capella University, we offer a relevant education that's designed to focus on what you need to know in the business world. We'll teach professional skills to help you pursue your goals like business management, strategic planning, and effective communication, and you can apply these skills right away. A different future is closer than you think with Capella University. Learn more at Capella. Eduardo.