← CNBC's "Fast Money"
CNBC's "Fast Money"
Stocks drop,Tesla tumbles, and gold shines as investors get defensive 4/21/25
00:42:44
The Mag 7 all dropped sharply to kick off the week and chip stocks fell across the board. Tesla heads into earnings under pressure. And President Trump ramped up his attacks on Fed Chair Jerome Powell. We’ll get thoughts from Former Cleveland Fed President Loretta Mester. Plus, gold hits another record high, Uber faces a new lawsuit, and Disney gets a bullish call. Fast Money Disclaimer
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Melissa Lee
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Guy Adami
NYSE Crazy Life in the NASDAQ marketsite in the heart of New York City's Times Square. This is fast money. Here's what's on tap tonight. Another Monday sell off the major averages slump while the dollar continues its slide. And with the President ramping up his attacks on the Fed chair and the bite of tariffs taking hold, is there a catalyst out there that can kick start a rebound? We'll debate that. Plus, is the record breaking running gold the ultimate Sell America signal? Should investors be more and more worried as gold rises higher and higher? We'll go inside the numbers and later the options action on Tesla ahead of tomorrow's results. Ugh. That's what shareholders of Deckers are saying about the stock right now. And why is one Wall street firm actually bullish on Disney right now? I'm Melissa Lee coming to you live from studio Be at the Nasdaq. On the desk tonight, Tim Seymour, Karen Feinerman, Dan Nathan and Guy Adami. We start off with stocks going back into sell off mode to start the week. The S and P dropping 2.4%, touching its lowest level since April 9 and back down 12% for the year. The Dow dropping more than 1300 points at its lows of the day and the tech heavy NASDAQ leading the losses with than a two and a half percent decline. But major indices all close off their worst levels of the session. Meanwhile, treasury yields headed higher with a 10 year yield back above 4.4%. The dollar touching its lowest in more than three years and gold hitting its 24th record of the year above 3400 for the first time. All this is tariff policy and the President's attacks on Fed Chair Jerome Powell throw the economic outlook into more uncertainty. But even with all the recent volatility, we're just about where we were a year ago. So what does this action tell you? Guy?
- [02:33]
Dan Nathan
Well, the stock market's definitely the star of the show, but behind the scenes it's what's going on. Tim's talk about Karen Dan it's the weakness in the US dollar, which by the way should be alarming a lot of people out there. I mean the move the dollar's had over the last couple of weeks has been historic. $YEN below 141 should be flashing red lights the same way they flashed over the summer, August specifically. And the bond market is clearly a story because people I think are starting to question the whatever of our US debt and our US dollar and I think they're fleeing it. And you're seeing it. People now are trying to get short the US dollar through any vehicle they can and they're selling their Treasuries like yields are headed back to 5%, which by the way, I think they are.
- [03:12]
Guy Adami
All of this was in place for weeks, maybe even months in terms of the downward pressure on the dollar as well as downward pressure on bonds themselves, yields higher. But with this call, the repeated calls for Fed Chair Powell to leave or to be kicked out, that that puts more uncertainty under this, this whole thing.
- [03:29]
Steve Liesman
Absolutely, for sure. I think that more than anything else, I mean the tariff stuff we've worked with, that's been in the place for, you know, since Liberation Day or even before Liberation Day. But this rhetoric being ratched up significantly to get rid of Powell I think is very destabilizing, counterproductive. And so it's interesting, we think where were we a year ago, bonds weren't that different from here. Maybe we were entering about the stage where the Fed had stopped tightening. They were on neutral for a little while, heading to cuts soon. And it seemed like a, you know, I was very different then. So this is a lot of the things the same. But it feels very, very different.
- [04:10]
Karen Feinerman
Yes, well, it feels like emerging markets. And to me, again, I take stocks, bonds and the dollar all going down in the same day. This is the stuff that I did for years. We had Steve Liesman on Friday and he kind of stole my, my metaphor to Are we Turkey? And with all due respect to a fantastic country with great food and a great part of the world, but we don't want to be seen as having the same economic, political and really unfortunately conflicted central bank dynamic. And that's kind of the story. I mean, an independent Fed is one of the tenets of our capital market system, frankly. And, and even those that feel, and I think many of us do, and certainly there have been times it's obvious the Fed has overstayed their welcome in our since the financial crisis. I think Scott Besson is one of these guys. I think, you know, these are also, I think times to point out just how important it is for the central bank to be where it is. Back to the equity market. You know, we're within 3% of the closing low on the S and P. So we've, we've come down last week you had those bear crosses everywhere on the NASDAQ and on the S and P. And they're real. And again, that downtrend from February 21 is, is one that I think until proven otherwise is, is the trend that you're following. And we're just getting into earnings season so we've had 15% of the S and P. And while I think we can all say that probably that first quarter, especially with some pull forward was pretty decent, I think this is the part of this that that really could possibly. Usually you wait for earnings season to give you that, that backstop to get back to fundamentals, but we know we're not going to hear anything great out of guidance.
- [05:36]
Melissa Lee
Yeah. So it's not just to me about the economy and what's going on in the markets right now. It's anything just pull open the Wall Street Journal, you know, the Washington Post, the New York Times, bloomberg.com CNBC. It's like a del stories that actually don't all have to do with the markets and the economy. Right. There's just no shortage of things that there is an attack on the norms. And you know, you could say that's political, but it's not. Look at the Washington or the Wall Street Journal. It's owned by Rupert Murdoch. You know, there was 10 stories over the weekend that are really attacking the processes in which this government is kind of like looking at things. And you know, there was an article that really hit me today. It's that Trump is everywhere accepting the economic data and it's talking about how the data is not reflecting what's going on just yet. And so what Tim just said about the it's baked in the cake, right? And then the guidance, it's just as clear as mud. And then when you think about just what is the sort of headline that could cause some sort of ease in the economy or the markets, I'm hard pressed to see what it is right now. I really don't like, you know, aside from them saying, hey, you know, we're just kidding, there's going to be no trade war and we're not putting tariffs to the extent that you think. But I actually think that would be really bad at this point. It'd be bad for our credibility, you know, it'd be bad for our standing in the global order here. And so it's a really bad place because all of the sorts of, you know, plays in the Fed's playbook outlook that he's being attacked for actually might not work in this environment right now. You know what I mean? Like if, usually if you have an economic crisis or whatever, you lower interest rates and I think that's what you're suggesting about, you know, like third World or Turkey or that sort of thing. So I think we're in a really tough spot here and the market I think is yet to really reflect that. If you think about an S and P that's only down 15% of the.
- [07:11]
Guy Adami
Year and then you layer on, you mentioned the store was very different compared to a year ago. Morgan Stanley had a report saying that hedge funds de risked to the lowest exposure to the Mag 7 in two years. I mean they were selling Monday through Wednesday of last week, 60, 60 billion dollars.
- [07:27]
Steve Liesman
So well, I'm always long. So I have mag 7 exposure. You know, some colors I have less, some because it's self hedging when it goes down. And then I have some, I have no Apple, it's all collared. Nvidia is 40% collared, but then the rest is down. I like Amazon, I like Metta, Google I like as a valuation. But I am concerned about the antitrust situation there. So you know, I'm always looking for things to buy and with the VIX here, we talked about it a lot over the last few weeks between 30 and 40 is really limbo. It's no man's land for me. So I think we were, I don't know where we ended up the day maybe 30 to something or other, but hit 36 maybe still limbo there. I like to have, I mean as you said, clear as mud. I'd like to have some clarity which we will not get during earnings. But I do think Though a reversal on tariffs would be a big benefit.
- [08:22]
Karen Feinerman
To the market, it did feel like a very peaceful val day on a day that wasn't a peaceful Vol day and yet it really I think the market is is in a mode here where I think people are accepting of the uncertainty and the drift lower. And Mel, your comments on positioning around the mag 7 normally I would respond to that and say that's actually kind of bullish. Right. If you think about the market and positioning if you've seen all the big hedge funds de risk take Those positions down CTAs which usually follow or trend followers have done the same thing. But I think the question we came into all this was what are the multiples on these companies and what should they be trading at? And I think it's going to be very important to hear about that capex but I do think we're at a place here where the S and P is certainly not priced for recession a recession that I'll say is not happening tomorrow I was reading a great report by Bruce Kasman of JP Morgan who I think is one of the best and he said, you know, coming out of first quarter you have a dynamic here where look the data and the outlook was very resilient, very solid and there was some pull forward nature to march for sure but the recession dynamic that now I don't know where we are in probability and depending on who we're asking, strategists, economists, market players but, but it's not going to happen immediately and that's the thing about this that's a little bit troubling to me. This all plays out over time and it'd be one thing if we just stuck a stick in the bicycle spokes guy, but what you probably did is.
- [09:43]
Dan Nathan
Laugh when people flew off their bike.
- [09:45]
Melissa Lee
Yeah, well I mean I never did that.
- [09:47]
Dan Nathan
I mean I was the guy that helped the person up off the ground after you put the stick in the spokes.
- [09:51]
Karen Feinerman
But thank you.
- [09:52]
Dan Nathan
So I mean at a certain point it comes math right. And what's the right multiple for the environment that I think we're in or going into? Historically an 18 multiple for the market is not unreasonable. I mean that's probably a little bit actually north of historic norm. And what about earnings are we going to have? It's not 274. I think we all probably agree on that. It's probably something closer to 250. Now there are people watching that and saying you know what guy, it's not that simple a math problem and you're probably right. But to a certain extent it's going to be that simple. And that gets us down to 4,500. So you can make an argument that fair value is probably still about 600 or so s and P points away.
- [10:26]
Guy Adami
If you're assuming that the multiple is 18, you can make an argument that.
- [10:31]
Dan Nathan
The multiple can be lower than that. I mean, we've seen in the low teens as well.
- [10:35]
Melissa Lee
Yeah, well, let's just go back to 2021-2022. By, by no means. We're like, you can compare these sorts of situations because that sound like a very orderly sort of sell off. There was a lot of excess in the market and you had, you know, NFTs and crypto and SPACs and all that sort of stuff. So at one point the S and p was down 30% of the year, closed down about 20%. The Nasdaq was down about 40%, closed down about 33%. So here we are right now. Guy just mentioned that 4850 level. That was the high in 2021. Take 1500 points, go down to your 4500. What's the E going to be like? You know, like at some point the stock market is going to discount essentially what, you know, where we bottom out. I just don't think a P E is a reasonable way to kind of think about what's going on in the market. So this feels like really bad relative to me to 2022. Now, I don't think you're pressing here. I think you sell rallies. I think it's one step forward, two steps back. And I don't think we're going to get any clarity on the tariff stuff probably for about, you know, four or five, six months.
- [11:31]
Guy Adami
Well, executives from some of the country's biggest retailers, Wal Mart, Target and Home Depot, meeting with the President this afternoon about tariffs. For the very latest out of Washington, let's get to Megan Casella at the White House. Meghan.
- [11:41]
Megan Casella
Hey, Mel. That's absolutely right. The CEOs of all three of those companies here this afternoon to meet with the President. And I am told that tariffs were on the agenda. Just in the last couple of minutes, I got this readout from the President via a White House official. The President saying that it was a good meeting with the biggest retailers in the world, confirming that the discussion included tariffs. The President also says the meeting went very well and that it was an honor to have them in the Oval Office this afternoon. Now, all three statements, all three companies, I should say, also put out statements as well, mostly calling it a productive and a constructive meeting. And Target specifically also said that they discussed, quote, the path forward on trade. Now, Melissa, remember, this does come, as the president has said in the past, that he'd be willing to talk with companies about tariffs. That's, of course, as negotiations with foreign countries are ongoing as well. The president in the past had said he might not be so rigid when he talks to companies, suggesting there that maybe there was some discussion about exclusions or exemptions in the Oval Office. So that's what we'll have to be watching over the next few days or weeks. We'll see if there's anything more, more specific to come out of this meeting, whether any of these companies might get some sort of wins on the trade front in terms of some of their products being exempt.
- [12:50]
Guy Adami
Melissa? All right, Meghan, thank you. Megan Casella at the White House, for us, it is positive that they are talking with the president as to whether or not anything actually comes out of this, who knows? But in terms of the tariff exposure, retailers, I mean, that's undeniable.
- [13:04]
Dan Nathan
No undeniable. Communication is always a good thing, right? But I mean, to your point, is it going to fall on deaf ears or will something come of it? Maybe. I mean, listen, President Trump watched Jamie Dimon speak to Maria Bartiromo a week and a half or so ago, and he made a decision to sort of ratchet things back based on that interview and based on what happened in the bond market the night before. So if somebody says something compelling to him in this round of talks, I mean, maybe you'll get a little acquiescence on the back end over the next couple days.
- [13:30]
Steve Liesman
It's interesting. I don't know if, you know, we avoided the shutdown of the government. The Democrats sort of caved and sort of are in this interesting strategic position of anything that goes wrong now with the economy is on the Republicans. So that, I think, adds a bit of extra pressure for them to come to some resolution, I think, somewhat quickly. And then also, I guess that will allow them to move on to the other parts of their agenda a little bit later in the tax cuts.
- [14:01]
Guy Adami
Yes. Let's get more on President Trump's attacks against Jerome Powell. In a post on Truth Social, the president called the Fed chair Mr. Too late and a, quote, unquote, major loser, saying that, quote, there can almost be no inflation and calling on him to lower interest rates for more on what it could mean for Powell's future and the independence of the Fed. Former Cleveland Fed President Loretta Mester joins us now. She's also a CNBC contributor. Loretta, great to have you. Great to get your perspective on this. I mean, nobody in the economic world says that this is a good thing. And certainly we're seeing the reaction to the markets. But in terms of what this could lead to, I mean, we get a flavor of it in terms of the bond, what we're seeing the bond market in terms of the dollar, is it too much of a leap to say that we would be on the path to becoming Turkey? I know there's a difference because they had four central bankers in two years. But this is the United States of America, the world's reserve currency, the world's safe haven in terms of the treasury market, and we're acting like this.
- [14:56]
Tim Seymour
Well, I think the president's comments on firing Jay Powell before his term is over certainly aren't helping in terms of clearing up any uncertainty. It's adding uncertainty on top of uncertainty that we had with the tariffs. So it's not helpful for the economy and you see the reaction in the financial markets, as you just pointed out. But it's also not helpful for the President's own legacy. And I have to believe that at some point he'll understand that his advisors will tell him that and that he can sort of complain about policy but not threaten to do things that really upend the institution and the institutional underpinnings of the, of the Fed. Because everyone in who's ever researched this, if you look at other countries, you really want to have a Fed that or a central bank that is setting monetary policy that is really focused on the goals that their legislator or the has given them. And in the Fed case, it's the congressional Congress has given them its goals. So you really want that to be the focus. And I am 100% confident that Jay and the Fed are going to look past and look through all this. You know what the President is doing in terms of saying he wants to fire and really stick to the minute of promoting price stability and maximum employment. That's their job. That's what they do. That's what they work hard to do and that's really what their focus is going to be. And all this other stuff is adding a lot of uncertainty to the economic outlook, which makes their job harder. But I also think that it's undermining the Fed, the President's own economic agenda and his own credibility in terms of his economic agenda. And at some point I think that'll be realized by the administration and they'll understand that this kind of attack on, on Powell is not helpful in any, in any case to any agenda. And so I think that is where it's going to be. But in terms of what the Fed is going to do and what Jay is going to do leading the Fed, they're going to stick to their job. And their job is to take into account what's going on in the economy. And that includes what's happening in financial markets, of course, but also the bigger picture in terms of what's coming in terms of policy and really focus in on what's the right monetary policy settings to make sure that we have inflation coming back down to 2% and we have as much as they can do with an interest rate tool, cushion this big, pretty traumatic change in the regime. Right. So this isn't just a little bit like we're going to have some cyclical stuff going on. It's really a fundamental change in the trade policy and the way the US Trade policy interacts with the global trade system. So the Fed has some tools that it might be able to cushion against some of that, but right now it's trying to balance both of those goals and that's what they're going to be focused on. They're not going to let this stuff distract them from their really important mission.
- [18:13]
Steve Liesman
It's Karen, thanks so much for being on. Obviously, we know you have the dual mandate of maximum employment and price stability, but does the market volatility ever weigh in on that to the extent that it can destabilize the labor market or the economy more broadly?
- [18:31]
Tim Seymour
I mean, there's two parts of that. One is, are the markets actually functioning? Right? Are they finding prices? Are there trades being done? Right. And so far from what we can tell, right. That the markets are functioning. We may not like the way they're going, but there's trades being done. And so there isn't a market functioning issue at this point from what we can see. But you're right in terms of financial conditions, if they're sustained and long enough and you know in a particular direction, they will influence the outlook for the economy. And so, you know, we've already seen how uncertainty can influence the economy. Right. People are pulling back on investment. If you're a business, people are pulling back on discretionary spending and, you know, getting prepared a little bit more savings and spending. Same thing can happen if you, if you see that your wealth has gone down your 401k, you look at the statements and you see, oh, well, I have less there than I thought. I better Start saving up again for rainy day that can affect the economy and that'll be all of that'll be taken into account when the Fed sits down and thinks about, you know, their outlook for the real side of the economy as well as what's going on in the inflation side.
- [19:43]
Guy Adami
Loretta, thanks for your time. Great to see you. Loretta Mester.
- [19:48]
Karen Feinerman
Well, what I heard Loretta say is in a world of an independent Fed and that's the world we live in, inflation is so much more important and staying anchored long term towards that means you are going to run the risk of again if being late means supporting the economy or supporting markets. I think this is a good place for the Fed to be. And again, I think this is a place that a lot of market participants want the Fed to be.
- [20:10]
Dan Nathan
Yeah, feels as though if President Trump wanted him out, I mean we'd be in the works right now. So I think he understands enough people probably told him that would be catastrophic. So I think he'll just sort of resign himself to browbeating him and trying to embarrass him on social media. I think that's what we're up against right now. But I think he understands the ramifications for going down that road.
- [20:30]
Melissa Lee
Yeah, I just think the administration has to make a better case. Why lower rates fixes anything that's going on right now because they have not done that just yet. And so to me, you know, you can compare us to what's going on in Europe. It's a very different situation in Europe. We are picking a fight with all of our major allies and our biggest adversaries. And I don't know how you get this thing fixed. I think it's weird that we have a deal with Canada or Mexico or EU right now. I think they're all waiting to see just how much we will blink and going forward, you know, if you can't get this thing done with Fed chair Powell, then he's going to try some other tactics here. They're just not going to cave.
- [21:04]
Karen Feinerman
And really quickly, short term is a short end is where the Fed controls rates long and by the way that that 10 years within a whisper of the intraday close on the day we were all fearful of that 10 year auction. So rates didn't have a good day.
- [21:16]
Guy Adami
Coming up, the countdown to Tesla earnings is on. And the action the options market is revving up around the Ed maker. How those trades are playing. The results next. Plus Uber hitting the brakes as the FTC cracks down on the rideshare company's billing practices. What the latest flow to big tech could mean right after this.
- [21:35]
Melissa Lee
This is Fast MONEY with Melissa Lee right here on cnbc.
- [21:42]
Guy Adami
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- [22:22]
Melissa Lee
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- [22:37]
Guy Adami
Welcome back to Fast Money. Tesla tumbling as investors prep for earnings tomorrow. Barclays cutting its price target on the stock to 275from 325, citing a confusing setup ahead of the report. Weak fundamentals but potential positives from a more engaged Elon Musk. In its full self driving event options traders are getting creative with how they are playing the results. Mike Co joins us now with the action there. Mike?
- [22:58]
Dan Nathan
Yeah, creative, I wouldn't say overly optimistic, at least not when we're talking about the options on Tesla's underlying shares. So we saw put volume outpacing call volume pretty considerably today the most active options where we saw the most premium spent were the weekly 225 puts. There was you know, over 48,000 ultimately by the end of the day of those trading around $12 a contract. That's a lot of bearish premium. Usually over the last 20 days we see calls outpacing puts and that actually that trend has been dwindling over time. Now there's also a two times levered ETF that trades on Tesla and here this thing is down over 80% off of its highs. But here there is a little bit more optimism, probably a function of the instrument itself just being levered to the upside. There we saw buyers of the seven strike calls paying about 53 cents. That was the most active contract there. But in general I would say that there's a lot of skepticism and some concern maybe looking into earnings.
- [23:55]
Guy Adami
Yep. Mike, thank you. Mike Co with the action there, one of the biggest bulls on the street wed Bush's Dan Ives says Musk needs to resign from Doge or at least provide a firm timeline as to when that will happen. He needs to disengage from there because there's been brand damage that we've been talking about this brand damage aspect for quite some time.
- [24:12]
Melissa Lee
Said something interesting on the last call. You know, I guess he got a lot of questions about, you know, all the time that he's spending on all these different things. He wasn't at Doge just yet. And he says, I go to where the problems are. Well, let me tell you where the problems are. In their auto gross margins, they're expected to be like 12 and a half percent. That's in line with General Motors. This is down from 30% or so three years ago. So they got the brand degradation. They got a whole host of other issues here. And a lot of folks who are bullish on the story. They're kind of throwing out 2025. If you want to throw out 2025, then the stock shouldn't be trading here because you're looking forward to Robotaxi and Optimus and all that exciting stuff where we know that you have to take the over. So again, I don't know how they get out of this hole because the brand degradation is not just here, it's also in Europe. And they're going to have some problems in China because he's got a lot of issues in China as it relates to, you know, all these different levers that they could pull with him one way or another.
- [25:01]
Guy Adami
And the competition there is extremely fierce.
- [25:03]
Dan Nathan
Yeah, on top of that, a slowing economy, higher interest rates, which by the way, when rates were at their zenith a month and a year and a half or so ago, Elon Musk actually talked about how high rates were hurting Tesla. And it all adds up to me to a stock that's challenged. Now maybe you're pushing against something here to 20, which sort of was a recent low, I don't know. But if you'd start to do the math, I mean, it's not unreasonable to think in a bad market this could trade 165, which was another prior low a while back.
- [25:28]
Karen Feinerman
Something real quick. There's also now some, at least some word out there that there could be a delay in the low cost line or in other words, something that was very bullish, that a more affordable Tesla, a more kind of Tesla for the masses may be delayed. That won't be good news.
- [25:42]
Guy Adami
Yep. We've got breaking news here on Harvard University suing the Trump administration or Reagan Casella is at the White House with the very latest. Meghan.
- [25:49]
Megan Casella
Hey, Mel. That's absolutely rate breaking just in the last few minutes. The Harvard is suing the Trump administration in federal court today arguing that the administration's attempts to freeze multiple billions of dollars in federal grants are unconstitutional and illegal. They're asking the court to freeze or overturn or reverse any attempts to halt that funding. Now, Harvard's president, Alan Garber says in a statement that the administration's actions are, quote, unlawful and beyond the government's authority. And this, of course, comes after the Trump administration was leveling a series of demands on Harvard over concerns mostly centering on anti Semitism. So in the suit then, Harvard writes, make no mistake, Harvard rejects anti Semitism and discrimination in all of its forms, is actively making structural reforms to eradicate anti Semitism on campus. But they go on to say rather than engage with Harvard regarding those efforts, the government announced a sweeping freeze of funding for all sorts of things, nothing at all to do with anti Semitism and Title 6 compliance. Now, Melissa, of course, amid a very tense time between the Trump administration and higher education institutions all across higher education, this is really the first and the most significant pushback that we've seen from any institution with Harvard now suing the administration in court.
- [27:03]
Guy Adami
Mel Meghann, thank you, Megan Casella. And as Megan mentioned, a lot of standoffs between higher education institutions like at Columbia right in our backyard here and the Trump administration with a lot of the universities feeling the pressure to submit to the Trump administration in terms of their requests in order to preserve funding. Harvard's making a stand here.
- [27:23]
Steve Liesman
Well, no one is in a better position, yes, financially the coffers than Harvard. Right. So, I mean, if there's anyone to do it, it would be Harvard. And interestingly, it's also a good sort of choice for Trump to pick as an elitist institution. And, you know, so it checks a lot of boxes on both sides. It'll be pretty interesting.
- [27:42]
Guy Adami
There is a lot more fast money to come. Here's what's coming up next.
- [27:46]
Melissa Lee
Uber slamming the brakes as the FTC cracks down on the rideshare giant inside the lawsuit. And the latest shock to big tech next. Plus, more signs that the sell America trade could be here to stay as gold hits another all time high. Our next guest says the precious metal could be about to get turned upside down. You're watching Fast MONEY live from the NASDAQ market site in Times Square. We're back right after this. Introducing cnbc, the new streaming platform from the number one source in business news. Watch live or on demand. Access any market, anytime, anywhere. Start streaming. Go to cnbc.com stream now.
- [28:32]
Guy Adami
Welcome back to Fast Money. We wanted to introduce CNBC's newest subscription streaming product, CNBC Plus. It's where you can stream Fast money in any of your other favorite CNBC shows anytime, anywhere on the go and also on demand. So if you can't catch fast money in real time, you can watch us later on cnbc. What you're seeing on the screen right now, that's our CNBC plus data feed which gives you an enhanced data view and the latest headlines all throughout the business day. So you get fast money plus lots of additional headlines and extra market information. Very informational. I like that.
- [29:03]
Karen Feinerman
I like the way it's all there.
- [29:06]
Guy Adami
Exactly. Meantime, Uber shares in reverse today after the FTC sued the company for allegedly deceptive billing practices. The agency saying Uber makes it difficult for customers to cancel their Uber once subscriptions and charges them without consent. The lawsuit is the FTC's first move against the tech company since President Trump retook office in January. Is Uber the you? And it is the you in my.
- [29:29]
Dan Nathan
Tube had a great run. Obviously sold off. I think it actually broke 70 at one point. Back above 70 now to me it's still about an earnings story. This will probably get settled one time charge type of thing will go away like most things typically do and it comes down to evaluation and their dominance in the field right now. So I still think a lot of coal buying apparently late last week in Uber as well. Uber reports on May 7th. I think it surprised people. The upside?
- [29:52]
Karen Feinerman
I think it will. I think the numbers are going to be strong but I think they are the one of the typical victims here of an economic slowdown and consumer resilience will be tested here. So I think it's going to be about some guide. I think they're going to give you actually a read through into what's going on. But we waited so long for that business to normalize and now maybe hitting headwinds.
- [30:11]
Guy Adami
Does this make Lyft look that much better or no? I mean Uber is more diversified in terms of its businesses and geographical reach.
- [30:18]
Karen Feinerman
I mean on some level, although, you know, I think if you're a weaker player that you're waiting to see their trends normalize. I think probably you get punished more. And this was the Ellen Blythe set, by the way.
- [30:27]
Guy Adami
It was.
- [30:28]
Steve Liesman
Yeah, I agree. I think Lyft was in an interesting position before. Maybe it's the, you know, pure play in the space. Maybe it's going to take over candidate but the weaker of the one in the down market isn't as good.
- [30:37]
Guy Adami
It could be the Ellen Bland but There's time to hear.
- [30:41]
Karen Feinerman
We were asked based upon our Fast Money Live event whether there is some flexibility with our acronyms. Jan, how did you answer that?
- [30:48]
Melissa Lee
Yeah, but I don't even know. The only thing that's interesting about Lyft here is that it has a one and a half billion dollar enterprise value. I mean that's it. Someone's going to take it over. I mean the service sucks. We all know it. Everyone uses Uber and so that, you know, north of. I don't.
- [31:02]
Karen Feinerman
I mean I take, I take lift. I try not to let people know I'm taking it. But it's cheaper.
- [31:06]
Melissa Lee
Cheaper.
- [31:07]
Karen Feinerman
It's cheaper. I mean sometimes it's 40, 50% cheaper.
- [31:10]
Guy Adami
Really?
- [31:11]
Steve Liesman
I see a bunch.
- [31:11]
Karen Feinerman
I'm all about the Benjamin's people.
- [31:13]
Melissa Lee
I see, I see. Yeah. 3.7. I'm sorry, I was looking at the wrong thing. So they have 2 billion in cash, they have 4.5 billion equity value and they have 1.1 billion in debt. I can do some math here.
- [31:25]
Guy Adami
Coming up, unprecedented. That's what our next guest is saying about the rally we've seen in gold this year is a surge. The best evidence we have that Sell America trade is here to stay. We'll get some answers right after this.
- [31:39]
Melissa Lee
Missed a moment of fast. Catch us anytime on the Go follow the Fast Money podcast. We're back right after this.
- [31:48]
Guy Adami
Welcome back to Fast money. Stocks dropping to start the week but finishing off their lows. President Trump upped his attacks against Fed chair Jerome Powell yet again, stoking fears about the central bank's independence. The dow dropping nearly 1,000 points. The s and P and NASDAQ losing just about 2 1/2% each. Meanwhile, Deckers Outdoor down 2% today. The parent company of Crocs and Ugg now down more than 50% from its 52 week highs, down nearly 10% just this month. And Meta falling for a seventh straight day, its longest streak since April 2023. That stock is now down 35% from its record. Well, maybe the biggest sign the Sell America trade is on as investors unload U.S. treasuries and the dollar. Gold hitting its 24th record of the year, settling above 3400 today. The precious metals now up almost 30% in 2025. John Champagne as the CEO of Sprott Asset Management, which focuses on precious metals and critical minerals investing. John, great to have you with us. I understand the bull case underpinning gold's rise right now, but is there anything about the run in gold, the trajectory, the speed at which it's climbed. That concerns you or is it all just up, up and away for you?
- [32:57]
John Champagny
Yeah, I mean obviously this is unprecedented in terms of the pace of gold gains. You know, gold is not really designed to be going up 30% in a few months at a time on top of last year's 27% increase. So it is obviously signaling something and obviously, you know, you just mentioned a whole bunch of signals and issues that the world is dealing with right now. You know, gold is really kind of an inverse reflection with respect to investor confidence with the US dollar being the reserve currency, US Treasuries, obviously the global economy and obviously the growing risks to whether we're going into a global recession due to the looming trade war is really got investors anxious. And one of the things that we find interesting is yes, we've had this great appreciation, but inflows in the gold ETFs year to date are only $30 billion globally. When you think about the paper losses that we've seen in a number of different asset classes, it's really a drop in the bucket. So it's really about investor sentiment right now and it's hard to know when we'll run out of gas.
- [33:58]
Karen Feinerman
John, it's Tim, it's great to have you and I guess I want to talk about the flow action and you know, gold is an asset class and frankly as a shareholder, your company, what it's meant for your company because in terms of free cash flow and the a growth and you look at the trust, you know, just did some digging, it looks like it's up 18% in terms of the mass that's year to date while most managers are down with the market. So what you're seeing in terms of fund flows, first of all, you probably don't want to talk about your stock but I just did it for you. Talk about the fund flows to this as an asset class because I think we're just getting going even though I think we've all been looking at gold for a long time.
- [34:35]
John Champagny
Yeah, I mean I start off by saying that I think most investors have little to no gold in their portfolio. This is something that wasn't really required. And if you think about it, just a few months ago it was all about Mag 7 stocks and the world was pretty orderly and you know, Trump was, was advocating a very pro business agenda. Obviously the world's flipped very, very quickly and you know, the sprout fiscal gold trust. It just seems as though a few weeks ago we put out a press release that it crossed 10 billion in a and we're now through 12 and that's obviously been market appreciation. But more recently we're starting to see some very chunky inflows into the trust. You know, anywhere in the magnitude of 250 to $300 million in a single day, we're starting to see in the last couple of weeks. So investors are finally starting to allocate, not just in our fund, obviously, but gold. ETFs right around the world have been big winners.
- [35:28]
Dan Nathan
John, we've long said to be long physical gold through phys and I think these are the reasons why. But yesterday, I think it was yesterday President Trump put out a tweet. I'll read it. This is the end of it. He who has the gold makes the rules. Thank you. I don't know if that was a metaphor or he's actually talking about gold, but I mention it through the lens of a lot of countries are looking to repatriate their gold, which works really well for exactly what you're doing. Can you speak to that?
- [35:55]
John Champagny
Yeah, I mean, this is a trend that's been going on, I'd say for the last three years. And it really came out of the invasion of Ukraine where, you know, the Russian assets were basically frozen in the swift system and a number of countries got very concerned about how easy it was for them to get cut off their financial assets. And I think the same concern flows through to physical assets which some of which have been held in the US for, for decades now. And so having the physical gold, I think is, is very important. Obviously banks around the world, central banks are starting to change their foreign exchange reserves to skew more to gold. It's not just China. We see a number of central banks doing this. And I know, I have no idea what President Trump meant by that, that tweet, but, you know, the US is obviously one of the largest holders of gold. We think there is a movement underway to basically read monetize gold, have it play a much more important role in the financial system. We're not advocating that we're going back to a gold standard, but clearly gold as part of an affects reserve is starting to go to the upside.
- [36:56]
Guy Adami
John, great to see you. Thanks for your time.
- [36:59]
John Champagny
Thanks for having me.
- [37:00]
Guy Adami
John Champagly of Sprott. We're talking about the sell America trade in so much as we are seeing weakness in equities, weakness in the bond market, but strength in gold. And John mentioned it, central banks increasingly buying gold and it's got to be at the expense of something else, whether it be US Dollars or treasuries or.
- [37:18]
Dan Nathan
Fill in the blank playing and it's playing right before our eyes. Whether selling treasuries, selling equities, they're selling something selling dollars, clearly buying gold. It's now four years now where you've seen each year a record amount of central bank gold buying led by China, but by other countries as well. And when you hear countries like Germany, like other countries say they want their gold back within their borders, it makes a lot of sense. You know, in a world where possession theoretically is 9, 10 the law, you better want it and you better have it domiciled under your borders.
- [37:50]
Steve Liesman
Bitcoin is also up nicely today in a risk off day. Just this morning, fear of, you know, if the Fed is no longer disciplined, then that would probably be very good for bitcoin.
- [38:01]
Karen Feinerman
Gold miners I think are wildly cheap here. And again, the upgrades are going to just be mechanical based upon the spot price in gold. But if you look at the almost 50% move higher in gold from last year, gold miners have done 53% at the same time. I think there's still a lot left on the miner side.
- [38:18]
Guy Adami
All right, want to hear more about where gold, the rest of the precious metals and bitcoin are headed from here? You can come join us for the next Fast Money live event here at the NASDAQ on June 5th. You'll get a chance to go one on one with all the traders you see here on the desk today, plus a couple of soon to be announced special guests. Yes, you'll also get to join Fast Money fans from across the country and around the world to join the community, talk investment strategy, share cocktail or two, scan the QR code on your screen or head on over to CNBC events.com fastmoney to grab your ticket right now.
- [38:47]
Karen Feinerman
Special guests.
- [38:48]
Guy Adami
I mean that's, I don't even know who they are.
- [38:49]
Karen Feinerman
That's really exciting. Well, I do.
- [38:52]
Dan Nathan
We're going to keep it embargoed.
- [38:54]
Karen Feinerman
Not telling, but very special.
- [38:56]
Tim Seymour
I don't know.
- [38:57]
Dan Nathan
Tim and I are privy to things interesting.
- [39:00]
Guy Adami
Coming up, a new bullish call failing to inject some magic into the house of Mouse. Why Wolfe Research is naming this entertainment giant a buy and whether you should jump in next. More Fast Money into. Welcome back to Fast money. Call the day on Disney here. Wolf Research upgrading the stock to outperform, setting strength in the company's core businesses despite broader economic slowdown fears. Analysts also suggesting the 25% sell off in shares this year might be pricing in too much weakness with the stock now trading at a historically steep discount to the S&P 523% discount to the S&P 500. In fact.
- [39:35]
Karen Feinerman
Tim well part of the argument here is that you've priced in recession for their core business and even the discussion around the streaming is is not giving enough credit to the profitability that they now really have. And if you think about when the stock rallied that gave it its last real boost. They gave uncommonly long term and detailed analysis and at least forecast in terms of their business. I actually think that the market is under appreciating the cash flow ability here at this point. You know whether it deserves the type of market multiple. I don't know. Historically it traded there.
- [40:13]
Melissa Lee
Yeah. If we're at 5050 for a recession, I think that's really Goldman Sachs is some of these other strategists. I don't think there's too many consumer discretionary stocks that are pricing in recession right now. And I think that you know that multiple you say relative to the market right here. I think any stock that you buy right now that is consumer discretionary, you better be prepared to buy it lower because I just don't think there's anything that turns this economy very quickly and certainly not the stock market.
- [40:37]
Dan Nathan
Netflix is consumer facing without question. But Netflix seemingly is winning. That quarter was very good. It had a decent day on a lousy tape. Look, it needs to do some work. It's got to get above that prior all time high, which I think was 1040 or something around there. But I still think Netflix works.
- [40:52]
Steve Liesman
So Disney is slowing, slowly paying down their debt, but they still have $45 billion worth of debt. Wow, that's not nothing.
- [41:00]
Guy Adami
Coming up, Tesla not the only big name reporting this week. Lockheed Martin, Chipotle, Boeing, Alphabet and more highlight a huge slate ahead. We'll take a first look at all these reports next. More fast Money into Welcome back to Fast Money. It's not just Tesla headlining the big earnings this week. 110s and P, 500 companies and six Dow components set to report Q1 results. The slate includes tech giants like Alphabet and Intel, consumer facing names Chipotle and PepsiCo as well as key reports from Boeing, AT&T Merck, Southwest and more. So which one are you watching very closely guy?
- [41:34]
Dan Nathan
Boeing's been a disaster. I mean is this going to be the earnings release where they basically get everything behind them and sort of put forth a plan for the rest of 2025 because the stock has been a Disaster. Obviously the China headline recently didn't help, but Boeing, to me, listen, it's an interesting list. Boeing's one I watch the most closely.
- [41:52]
Steve Liesman
So Boeing's on my. Whatever. I don't know. But it. I.
- [41:56]
Karen Feinerman
Well, yeah, she's laughing because she knows she doesn't play by the rules because.
- [42:00]
Steve Liesman
It could have been Baba. But I don't think, I don't think this quarter is actually the one. I'd hope this quarter is one that mattered now that we're in this tariff situation. This is somewhat of a wrench for, for Boeing. But I am interested most in Alphabet. I definitely want to hear AI of course, we want to hear anything on any hint of advertising more broadly and to them more specifically in search. But I don't know that we'll get.
- [42:22]
Guy Adami
Any clarity in terms of especially whether or not they have to break up.
- [42:27]
Steve Liesman
Right. Well that will have no clarity yet.
- [42:29]
Karen Feinerman
Yeah, yeah. Carved. There she is. Look at that.
- [42:33]
Guy Adami
I thought it might be the aerospace. Boeing. Oh yeah, because of the way you played the game. It would have fit in there.
- [42:40]
Karen Feinerman
The way she plays the game.
- [42:42]
Dan Nathan
I'm reading, I'm looking over my shoulder because I'm reading the E for energy.
- [42:46]
Guy Adami
I don't even. She's.
- [42:48]
Karen Feinerman
Look, I'm not gonna confuse Karen.
- [42:49]
Guy Adami
Nothing makes sense.
- [42:50]
Karen Feinerman
She's the highest integrity person outside of Melissa on this desk. So I'm not gonna low bar. I'm not. I'm looking at transports this week though. I mean I think with everything we're hearing about China tariffs and whatnot, that will be the first so far, no fall off. I think in terms of what we've seen in terms of rail volumes, that's going to be a big deal.
- [43:08]
Melissa Lee
Google is interesting to me and I think you're right. I mean I think that you know the stock was trading at all time highs when they reported last time is down 30 some percent right now. There's no reason that all these stocks, the MAG7 won't be down for 50% from those recent highs.
- [43:21]
Guy Adami
I'm excited to hear the first conference call from. Look, Bhutan over at intel to see what the plan is there. Right. Should be an interesting one.
- [43:28]
Dan Nathan
Stock is short call when he came in. Right. So that will be interesting.
- [43:32]
Guy Adami
Up next, final trades, final trade time. Let's go around the horn. Timo. Tag.
- [43:39]
Melissa Lee
Yeah.
- [43:39]
Karen Feinerman
I'm reluctant to do this but I'm going to take a piece of guy's clam and I'm going to go AEM because I think gold miners have a lot more beta to the underlying and I think you can stay there.
- [43:49]
Steve Liesman
Karen Nice one guys. You guys on gold for a long time. Mine is I'm going to be selling some upside Netflix calls.
- [43:56]
Melissa Lee
Dan yeah, the be in your car is in the K web. I'd rather buy Chinese Internet here than US Internet guy.
- [44:03]
Dan Nathan
There's always room in one clam for you Tim.
- [44:05]
Karen Feinerman
I appreciate that.
- [44:07]
Dan Nathan
Welcome aboard Walmart wmt Mel by the.
- [44:11]
Guy Adami
Way, a special birthday shout out. Happy 21st. Joshua Canold I know you're watching all opinions expressed by the Fast Money participants are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of CNBC, NBCUniversal, their parent company or affiliates, and may have been previously disseminated by them on television, radio, Internet or another medium. You should not treat any opinion expressed on this podcast as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of an opinion. Such opinions are based upon information the Fast Money participants consider reliable, but neither CNBC nor its affiliates and or subsidiaries warrant its completeness or accuracy, and it should not be relied upon as such. To view the full Fast Money disclaimer, please visit cnbc.com fastmoneydisclaimer introducing CNBC plus.
- [45:00]
Melissa Lee
The new streaming platform from the number one source in business news. Watch live or on demand. Access any market, anytime, time anywhere. Start Streaming. Go to cnbc.com stream now.