Episode 717: A Key Tactic for Way Better Conversations with Alison Wood Brooks

Host: Dave Stachowiak
Guest: Alison Wood Brooks
Release Date: January 27, 2025
Podcast: Coaching for Leaders

1. Introduction: The Crucial Role of Conversations in Leadership

In this insightful episode, Dave Stachowiak delves into the art and science of conversations with renowned behavioral scientist, Alison Wood Brooks. Emphasizing that "Leaders aren't born, they're made," Dave sets the stage for a deep exploration of how meaningful dialogues can enhance leadership effectiveness and personal relationships.

2. Expanding the Conversation Challenge: Beyond the Difficult

Dave (00:35): "Conversations are the venues where leaders do so much of their work...our relationships are about conversations."

Alison Wood Brooks highlights that while much attention is given to navigating difficult conversations, the daily interactions we deem "easy" are equally challenging. She observes that we often "struggle with the conversations we have all day...even the ones that seem easy and fun."

3. Introducing Topic Preparation: A Strategic Approach

Dave (04:11): "What do you mean by topics in this context and what's so significant about them?"

Alison introduces the concept of topic preparation, a deliberate strategy to enhance conversational quality. A topic is defined as "any thematically related chunk of turns in a conversation," allowing individuals to steer dialogues more effectively by having pre-thought topics ready.

4. The Myth of Naturalness: Debunking Effortless Conversationalists

Alison (07:38): "The people that you see doing a good job at it probably have been working hard at this skill..."

Alison challenges the common belief that great conversationalists are innately talented. She explains that successful dialogue often results from "deliberate effort" and continuous practice, debunking the "Myth of Naturalness."

5. Overcoming Resistance to Topic Preparation

Dave (09:45): "How many people push back on it and say... it's not like the natural way of how we have conversations."

Despite its benefits, many resist topic preparation fearing it may make conversations "forced or rigid." Alison shares that initial aversion often stems from misconceptions about spontaneity but emphasizes that preparation does not have to compromise natural flow.

6. The Benefits of Preparing Topics

Alison (08:34): "You feel less anxious during the conversation because you have a sort of backup plan..."

Preparing topics offers multiple advantages:

• Reduced Anxiety: Having topics ready acts as a safety net.
• Mutual Interest: Ensures conversations are engaging for both parties.
• Seamless Transitions: Facilitates smoother shifts between topics, mitigating awkward pauses.

7. Finding Inspiration for Conversation Topics

Dave (18:12): "Where do I start? What do you find helps?"

Alison suggests drawing inspiration from everyday experiences:

• Media Consumption: Books, podcasts, and TV shows can seed topics.
• Personal Experiences: Sharing recent activities or observations.
• Curiosity-Driven Questions: Posing intriguing questions inspired by stories or events.

For instance, she cites a listener who uses episodes from "This American Life" as conversation starters to engage others thoughtfully.

8. Making Conversations Meaningful: Topic Choice vs. Topic Management

Dave (21:37): "Having a good conversation isn't about choosing good topics. It's about making any topic good through topics management."

Alison distinguishes between choosing the right topics and masterfully managing any topic to ensure engaging dialogue. Effective conversationalists excel not just in topic selection but in how they navigate and enrich conversations, regardless of the subject matter.

9. Application in Leadership and Management Conversations

Dave (25:08): "How do we both show up with some thoughts of like, doing some prep...and at the same time being able to meet people where they are..."

Alison discusses integrating topic preparation in managerial settings, such as one-on-one employee meetings. She emphasizes the balance between preparation and flexibility, allowing leaders to support employees effectively while also fostering open, dynamic interactions.

10. Personal Insights: Embracing and Streamlining Small Talk

Alison (31:50): "People not only dislike small talk, they actively dread the experience of feeling trapped in small talk."

Through her research, Alison has redefined the role of small talk. She encourages viewing it as a "treasure hunt"—a necessary social ritual that serves as a launching pad for deeper conversations, rather than something to be avoided.

Notable Quotes:

• Dave on Conversation as Leadership (00:00): "Conversations are the venues where leaders do so much of their work."

• Alison on Topic Preparation (02:21): "Every relationship is a repeated sequence of time that we spend in conversations."

• Alison on the Myth of Naturalness (07:38): "Conversational skills... are developable, and anybody can learn them."

• Alison on Small Talk (31:50): "Instead of dreading it, view it as this opportunity as a launching pad and get out of it as quickly as you can."

Conclusion: Empowering Better Conversations Through Preparation

Dave and Alison conclude by reinforcing the transformative power of topic preparation. They encourage listeners to adopt this tactic to foster more meaningful and effective conversations, enhancing both leadership capabilities and personal relationships.

For those interested in further exploring these concepts, Alison's book, "The Science of Conversation and the Art of Being Ourselves," and additional resources on CoachingforLeaders.com are highly recommended.

Additional Recommendations:

• Episode 497: The Way into Difficult Conversations with Kwame Christian.
• Episode 655: Improving Difficult Conversations with Sheila Heen.
• Episode 670: How to Connect With People Better with Charles Duhigg.

These episodes offer complementary insights into mastering both challenging and everyday conversations, essential for effective leadership.