Podcast Summary: Coaching for Leaders Episode 720
Title: The Way Towards a Bit More Bravery, with Margie Worrell
Host: Dave Stachowiak
Guest: Margie Worrell
Release Date: February 17, 2025
Introduction
In Episode 720 of Coaching for Leaders, host Dave Stachowiak engages in a profound conversation with Margie Worrell, a bestselling author, keynote speaker, leadership coach, and Forbes columnist. The episode, titled "The Way Towards a Bit More Bravery," delves into the critical role of courage in leadership, exploring how leaders can cultivate bravery to enhance their personal and organizational effectiveness.
Margie Worrell's Journey and Insights
Margie Worrell brings over 25 years of global experience in leadership coaching, extensively working to help individuals overcome fear and unlock their potential. She is the author of "The Courage Gap: Five Steps to Braver Action," a book that continues the themes of her earlier work, "Find Your Courage." Margie's background, including her upbringing in rural Australia and her initial struggles with the English language, underscores her resilience and dedication to empowering others.
Confronting Fear: The Nightmarish Author Scenario [01:37 – 03:20]
Margie shares a vivid story from her pre-book publication days, highlighting her deep-seated fears:
Margie Worrell [01:51]: "Waking up in the middle of the night... the front page of the New York Times. It was just my photo... it had one headline. It just said world's worst author."
This metaphorical nightmare encapsulates how irrational fears can dominate our thoughts, even when there's no logical basis for them. Margie emphasizes that such fears of judgment and vulnerability are common barriers that prevent leaders from taking courageous actions.
The Nature of Fear in Leadership [03:21 – 05:00]
Margie explains that fear is an intrinsic human emotion designed to protect us from threats. However, in leadership, this natural response can become a hindrance:
Margie Worrell [04:09]: "Our fear can keep us from doing the very things that would improve our future and add more value."
She underscores the importance of recognizing and managing fear to prevent it from stifling innovation and growth within organizations.
Insecure Overachievers: A Double-Edged Sword [05:00 – 09:36]
Margie introduces the concept of insecure overachievers, highly capable individuals who excel professionally but grapple with internal insecurities:
Margie Worrell [05:56]: "They are operating and leading from fear of what could be lost... a play, not to lose, protective mindset."
These leaders often inhibit their potential by avoiding necessary risks, thereby limiting their impact and the growth of their teams and organizations.
Dave reflects on his own experiences, resonating with Margie's observations:
Dave Stachowiak [08:39]: "How often we don't even consciously recognize or make peace with the fear that we have, do we?"
Cognitive Biases: Discounting the Future [14:49 – 17:27]
Margie discusses temporal bias, where individuals undervalue future rewards in favor of immediate comfort:
Margie Worrell [14:49]: "We treat future time more cheaply than we do present time."
This bias leads to procrastination and avoidance of actions that would benefit long-term goals. Margie advises leaders to be mindful of how they perceive time and to prioritize actions that align with their future aspirations over short-term security.
Practical Technique Highlighted: Dave shares a strategy discussed in an Academy session:
Dave Stachowiak [18:33]: "Think about a request you have to commit to three weeks from now... would I still say yes and would I say yes joyfully?"
This method helps mitigate temporal bias by evaluating commitments in the present, ensuring decisions are aligned with long-term objectives.
Managing Fear-Casting and Worst-Case Scenarios [20:44 – 26:03]
Margie critiques the tendency to focus excessively on negative outcomes, which can paralyze decision-making:
Margie Worrell [21:44]: "Potential losses... loom much larger in our minds than potential gains."
She advocates for a balanced approach where leaders consider both risks and opportunities, fostering a proactive mindset that embraces intelligent risks for long-term growth. Margie emphasizes the importance of not letting fear dictate inaction, as moving forward, even imperfectly, yields valuable feedback and learning opportunities.
Dave adds:
Dave Stachowiak [23:34]: "We can be caught up in rationalizing our inaction... how often we don't even see it as fear."
Embracing Continuous Courage [31:16 – 32:39]
Margie shares her evolved perspective on courage, highlighting that the journey to bravery is ongoing:
Margie Worrell [31:39]: "There will always be some other gap ahead... opportunities for you to be practicing courage in some way."
This insight reinforces that leadership requires perpetual growth and the willingness to face new challenges with bravery.
Key Takeaways and Practical Advice
- Self-Awareness: Leaders must regularly engage in self-reflection to identify and address their fears.
- Mindful Decision-Making: Evaluate commitments based on present-day values and long-term goals to overcome temporal bias.
- Balance Risk and Opportunity: Focus on both potential gains and losses to make informed, courageous decisions.
- Embrace Continuous Growth: Recognize that the pursuit of courage is an ongoing process with no final destination.
Notable Quotes
- Margie Worrell [01:51]: "It was the front page of the New York Times. It was just my photo... world's worst author."
- Margie Worrell [04:09]: "Our fear can keep us from doing the very things that would improve our future and add more value."
- Margie Worrell [05:56]: "They are operating and leading from fear of what could be lost... a play, not to lose, protective mindset."
- Dave Stachowiak [08:39]: "How often we don't even consciously recognize or make peace with the fear that we have, do we?"
- Margie Worrell [14:49]: "We treat future time more cheaply than we do present time."
- Margie Worrell [21:44]: "Potential losses... loom much larger in our minds than potential gains."
- Margie Worrell [31:39]: "There will always be some other gap ahead... opportunities for you to be practicing courage in some way."
Conclusion
Episode 720 of Coaching for Leaders provides invaluable insights into the role of courage in effective leadership. Through Margie Worrell's expertise and personal anecdotes, listeners gain a deeper understanding of how fear and cognitive biases can hinder leadership potential. The episode not only identifies these challenges but also offers practical strategies to cultivate bravery, enabling leaders to make impactful decisions that drive personal and organizational growth.
For more enriching discussions on leadership and personal development, explore other recommended episodes such as:
- Episode 573: How to Protect Your Confidence with Nate Zinsser
- Episode 576: How to Help People Engage in Growth with Whitney Johnson
- Episode 713: How to Grow from Feedback with Jennifer Garvey Berger
Access these and additional resources by setting up a FREE membership at CoachingforLeaders.com.