Podcast Summary: Coaching for Leaders – Episode 734: The Path to More Joy in Work and Life, with Judith Joseph

Podcast Information:

• Title: Coaching for Leaders
• Host: Dr. Dave Stachowiak
• Episode: 734: The Path to More Joy in Work and Life
• Guest: Dr. Judith Joseph
• Release Date: May 19, 2025

Introduction

In Episode 734 of Coaching for Leaders, host Dr. Dave Stachowiak delves into the intricate relationship between leadership, mental health, and personal joy. Recognizing that "leaders aren't born, they're made," Dr. Stachowiak emphasizes the importance of personal leadership and mental well-being as foundational to effective leadership. To unpack these themes, he welcomes Dr. Judith Joseph, a Columbia-trained psychiatrist and the author of High: Overcome Your Hidden Depression and Reclaim Your Joy.

Understanding High-Functioning Depression

Dr. Judith Joseph introduces the concept of high-functioning depression, a form of depression where individuals maintain outward appearances of success and productivity while internally struggling with depressive symptoms. She explains:

“When I was going through my significant period of high functioning depression on the outside, I looked fine, I looked put together, I was struggling silently behind a mask of pathological productivity.” [02:45]

Key Points:

• Distinction Between Low and High-Functioning Depression: Traditional views of depression (low-functioning) involve visible symptoms like crying and inability to perform daily tasks. In contrast, high-functioning depression is characterized by internal struggles such as anhedonia (lack of joy) while maintaining external productivity.

• Preventative Mental Health: Dr. Joseph criticizes the current mental health approach of waiting for individuals to reach a crisis point before intervening. She advocates for proactive measures to support mental health before individuals "break down."

The Faces of Depression

High-Functioning vs. Low-Functioning Depression Dr. Joseph elaborates on the multifaceted nature of depression:

“Depression has many faces... these days, we push through our pain all the time... We don't even know what this is. We just think that this is life.” [04:35]

Key Points:

• Anhedonia: A core symptom of high-functioning depression where individuals lose interest and pleasure in activities that once brought joy.

• Existential Crisis: Unlike the visible crisis of low-functioning depression, high-functioning depression presents as an ongoing lack of joy without immediate signs of crisis, leading to long-term negative outcomes like poor health and strained relationships.

Defining Success and Its Impact on Joy

Dr. Stachowiak references a quote from Dr. Joseph’s book:

“People with high functioning depression think of success as the only path to happiness. Healing can help a person realize they're worthy of joy in life just as they are.” [06:42]

Key Points:

• Subjective Definitions of Success: Success varies widely among individuals, encompassing personal milestones like relationships, career achievements, and financial stability.

• Research on Happiness: Dr. Joseph contrasts fleeting moments of happiness with the cumulative experience of joy, emphasizing that true happiness is derived from daily joyful experiences rather than singular achievements.

Trauma’s Role in High-Functioning Depression

Dr. Joseph addresses the broader definitions of trauma beyond severe events:

“There are smaller traumas that are not as intense as like an assault or life-threatening event... significant, you know, in the very clear textbook definition of a trauma...” [11:57]

Key Points:

• Beyond Severe Trauma: Everyday stressors like financial instability, divorce, and systemic discrimination can constitute trauma if they significantly impact an individual's emotional and psychological well-being.

• Collective Trauma: Events affecting large groups (e.g., the societal impact of 2020) are also considered traumas that shape individual and collective mental health.

The Five Vs and Validation

Dr. Joseph introduces the "Five Vs" from her book, highlighting validation as the starting point:

“Validation tends to be the hardest V for people with high functioning depression... labeling and naming an emotion is so powerful that it is a therapeutic intervention.” [20:44]

Key Points:

• Validation: Acknowledging and accepting one’s emotions is crucial for healing but challenging for those who mask their pain with busyness.

• Biopsychosocial Model: Understanding individual uniqueness through biological, psychological, and social factors helps identify where one might be losing or missing points of joy.

Practical Steps to Reclaim Joy

Dr. Joseph provides actionable strategies to cultivate joy:

“You don't need to have a big moment... just start slowly accepting and acknowledging how you feel at points throughout the day.” [27:36]

Key Points:

• Affect Labeling: Naming emotions reduces uncertainty and can calm the mind, serving as a simple yet effective therapeutic tool.

• Daily Practices: Encouraging small, consistent actions like savoring a meal or taking a moment to connect with a loved one to accumulate points of joy.

• Relatability Through Stories: Utilizing movies, books, and stories that mirror personal experiences helps individuals validate their own emotions and struggles.

Changing Perspectives on High-Functioning Depression

Reflecting on her research journey, Dr. Joseph shares evolving insights:

“High functioning depression does not discriminate... a lot of artists resonate with this... caregivers, people at home...” [33:06]

Key Points:

• Diverse Demographics: High-functioning depression is prevalent across various groups, including artists who mask their struggles for professional reasons and caregivers who prioritize others’ needs over their own joy.

• Non-Discriminatory Nature: This form of depression affects individuals regardless of their outward success or societal roles, highlighting the need for broader recognition and support.

Conclusion

In this enlightening episode, Dr. Judith Joseph effectively bridges the gap between leadership and personal mental health, underscoring the hidden struggles many leaders face. By shedding light on high-functioning depression and providing practical tools to reclaim joy, she offers valuable insights for leaders seeking to foster not only their own well-being but also that of those they lead. Dr. Stachowiak successfully navigates the conversation, ensuring listeners walk away with a deeper understanding of the importance of validating emotions and proactively addressing mental health to achieve sustained personal and professional fulfillment.

Notable Quotes:

• “The fact that you are joyless is not okay. It may not be a crisis today, but in the long run, it's going to impact your health, it's going to impact your relationships, it's going to impact your productivity.” – Dr. Judith Joseph [18:02]
• “Validation and acknowledging and accepting your emotions and your experiences is so important.” – Dr. Judith Joseph [20:44]

Resources:

• Book: High: Overcome Your Hidden Depression and Reclaim Your Joy by Dr. Judith Joseph
• Website: CoachingforLeaders.com – Access full leadership and management library with a free membership.

Listen to Episode 734: For leaders seeking to enhance their personal well-being and leadership effectiveness, Episode 734 offers profound insights and practical strategies. Tune in to discover how embracing joy can transform both your work and personal life.