Podcast Summary: Coaching for Leaders - Episode 740: How to Lead Organizational Change with Michael Bungay Stanier

Introduction

In Episode 740 of Coaching for Leaders, host Dave Stachowiak engages in a profound discussion with renowned leadership expert Michael Bungay Stanier. Titled "How to Lead Organizational Change," the episode delves into effective strategies for navigating the complexities of change within organizations. Michael brings his extensive experience from his bestselling work, The Coaching Habit, and his new venture, the Change Signal podcast, to offer actionable insights for leaders aiming to spearhead successful transformations.

Embracing the Messiness of Change

Michael Bungay Stanier opens the conversation by challenging the traditional notion that change processes can be neatly planned and executed. He emphasizes the inherent messiness and complexity involved in leading change.

"If you're doing change right, it's going to be messy." [00:00]

Michael underscores that successful change requires leaders to accept and navigate the inevitable chaos, moving away from rigid plans towards more adaptive approaches.

Understanding the Dual Nature of Change

A significant portion of the discussion centers around Michael's framework distinguishing between two types of change: Easy Change and Hard Change. Additionally, he differentiates between Individual Change and Organizational Change, drawing parallels to Newtonian and Quantum physics in their distinct yet complementary roles.

• Easy Change: Tangible, measurable, and trackable changes that can be managed with conventional methods like training and project management.

  "Easy change is like U, and hard change is like U 2.0." [16:15]

• Hard Change: Intangible, complex changes involving shifts in behavior, organizational culture, and power dynamics.

Michael suggests that neglecting either aspect can undermine the sustainability of change initiatives. Effective leadership requires addressing both types simultaneously to ensure lasting impact.

The Importance of Starting with Reality

Drawing inspiration from Caroline Webb and her principle of understanding the existing "fence" before removing it, Michael advocates for leaders to conduct a thorough audit of the current state before initiating change.

"You should figure out what's actually going on before you leap in and start doing stuff." [04:52]

This approach prevents leaders from making misguided decisions that could harm relationships and organizational cohesion.

Balancing Strategy and Culture

Michael highlights the intricate relationship between strategy and culture, arguing against the simplistic notion that "culture eats strategy for breakfast." Instead, he posits that both are the twin DNA of an organization, essential for executing effective change.

"The twin DNA of an organization is strategy and culture, and you need both." [22:01]

He emphasizes that strategy should be co-created with the organization's culture, ensuring that both elements support and reinforce each other.

Running Experiments to Navigate Uncertainty

One of the cornerstone ideas Michael presents is the value of running small experiments—referred to metaphorically as "firing bullets"—to test and learn before committing to larger, irreversible changes.

"Change capacity as much as anything in your organization. An ability to be in a place of unknown and ambiguity and not to panic around that." [27:10]

This iterative approach allows organizations to adaptively respond to emerging challenges and reduces the risks associated with large-scale change initiatives.

Acknowledging and Managing Emotions

The conversation also touches on the critical role of emotions in the change process. Michael criticizes the common practice of sidelining emotions during organizational change, advocating instead for leaders to acknowledge and address them genuinely.

"The people who have the fancier titles have had the time to process that change and think about that change for sometimes months, weeks and months, and then they are ready to roll it out... and you forget that the people who are getting whatever's being rolled out to are just hearing it for the first time." [20:14]

By recognizing and validating employees' emotional responses, leaders can foster a more supportive and resilient organizational environment.

Building Change Capacity Within the Organization

Michael introduces the concept of Change Capacity, which refers to an organization's ability to continuously adapt and manage ongoing changes. He suggests that focusing on building this capacity is more effective than merely executing discrete change projects.

"The determining factor of the success or failure of your change initiative is whether the people you're trying to change have capacity to change." [27:08]

Investing in developing skills, mindsets, and adaptive capabilities ensures that organizations can handle future changes more adeptly.

Overcoming the Grip of the Status Quo

A poignant part of the discussion revolves around the challenges posed by the status quo. Michael acknowledges the strong inertia that existing systems and behaviors exert, making change efforts particularly arduous.

"The status quo has a powerful grip on all of us at an individual and at an organizational level." [34:37]

He advises leaders to be mindful of this resistance and to strategize accordingly to gradually shift entrenched patterns.

Key Takeaways and Conclusions

• Acknowledge Complexity: Recognize that change is inherently messy and requires flexible, adaptive strategies.

• Dual Approach: Address both individual and organizational levels, balancing easy and hard change initiatives.

• Start with the Reality: Conduct comprehensive assessments to understand the current state before implementing changes.

• Engage Emotions: Validate and manage the emotional landscape of employees to foster smoother transitions.

• Experiment and Learn: Utilize small-scale experiments to test hypotheses and learn before scaling up change efforts.

• Build Change Capacity: Focus on developing the organization's ability to handle continuous change rather than viewing change as a series of isolated projects.

• Understand Resistance: Be aware of the status quo's influence and strategize to gently shift organizational norms and behaviors.

Michael Bungay Stanier's insights offer a holistic and human-centric approach to leading organizational change. By embracing complexity, fostering open communication, and building adaptive capacities, leaders can navigate the challenges of transformation more effectively and sustainably.

Notable Quotes

• "If you're doing change right, it's going to be messy." – Michael Bungay Stanier [00:00]
• "You should figure out what's actually going on before you leap in and start doing stuff." – Michael Bungay Stanier [04:52]
• "The twin DNA of an organization is strategy and culture, and you need both." – Michael Bungay Stanier [22:01]
• "Change capacity as much as anything in your organization. An ability to be in a place of unknown and ambiguity and not to panic around that." – Michael Bungay Stanier [27:10]
• "The status quo has a powerful grip on all of us at an individual and at an organizational level." – Michael Bungay Stanier [34:37]

Additional Resources

For listeners interested in exploring more about organizational change, Michael recommends several past episodes of Coaching for Leaders:

1. Episode 571: Engaging People Through Change – Featuring Cassandra Worthy, discussing the human aspects of change.
2. Episode 621: How to Approach a Reorg with Claire Hughes Johnson – Insights from a Stripe leader on managing organizational restructuring.
3. Episode 660: How to Prevent a Team from Repeating Mistakes – Featuring Robert Kujo Teschner on effective debriefing practices.

Listeners can access these episodes and more by activating a free membership at CoachingforLeaders.com.

Conclusion

Episode 740 of Coaching for Leaders offers a comprehensive exploration of organizational change, blending theoretical frameworks with practical strategies. Michael Bungay Stanier's expertise provides leaders with the tools to not only implement change but to cultivate an environment where change can thrive organically and sustainably. This episode is an invaluable resource for anyone looking to enhance their leadership capabilities in the face of evolving organizational landscapes.