Podcast Summary: Coaching for Leaders, Episode 745

Title: How Music Can Help Us Lead, with Mort Sherman
Host: Dave Stachowiak
Guest: Mort Sherman, Retired Senior Associate Executive Director, AASA and co-author (with his daughter Sarah Leela Sherman) of Resonant: The Transformative Power of Music, One Note at a Time
Date: August 18, 2025

Overview

This episode explores the intersection of music and leadership, examining how leaders can intentionally harness the power of music to foster resonance, strengthen community, set culture, and enhance team effectiveness. Drawing from neuroscience, history, and practical anecdotes—including insights from the restaurant world, schools, and personal experience—Dr. Mort Sherman and host Dave Stachowiak discuss actionable practices for bringing music into leadership spaces and daily work life.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Concept of Resonance in Leadership

• Resonance Defined: Emotional connection leaders create with others, akin to the way a conductor relates to an orchestra (03:00).
  • “When you have a conductor standing in front of an orchestra, there is a resonance... an understanding, this connection that goes on.” – Mort Sherman [02:55]
• Historical Examples: Lincoln, Washington, FDR, and Reagan cited as leaders who embodied resonance, particularly through listening, presence, and communication (04:30).
• Analogy to Groove: The group experience at a concert ("groove") likened to organizational alignment under resonant leadership (05:20).
  • “If you don’t have that resonance, if you don’t listen, if you don’t feel, if you don’t understand those in your charge, then you’re not going to succeed as a leader.” – Mort Sherman [05:43]

Music as a Tool for Creating Intentional Culture

• Intentional vs. Passive Use of Music:
  • Elevator/store music = passive background; rarely noticed or leveraged for impact.
  • Conference, sports events, or deliberate meeting choices = intentional use for mood, energy, and connection (07:20).
• Agency and Collaboration:
  • Including others in music selections builds agency and deeper buy-in (08:00).
  • “Wouldn’t it be even more interesting to say, ‘Hey, you 100 people, what kind of music would you like to listen to?’” – Mort Sherman [08:34]

Example from the Culinary World: Chef Jessica Mazzanotti

• Choreographed Dance: Kitchen operations likened to a dance, orchestrated by leader with the help of carefully selected music (10:30).
• Stress Reduction: Music is consciously chosen to set the right atmosphere—calm, focus, and rhythm—especially under pressure (11:30).
  • “…she wants to create the music in the kitchen so that people could hear it intentionally and not have that steam going off the top of the pressure cooker.” – Mort Sherman [11:59]
• Cooking vs. Performing:
  • Cooking = perfunctory, routine (like passive elevator music).
  • Performing = intentional, artistic act; crafting an atmosphere that nurtures senses and spirit (13:00).

Community & Team Building Through Music

• Expectations for Work Environments: Modern workers want more than a job—they seek community, fulfillment, and support (14:20).
• Kazoos, Laughter, and History: Creative musical team activities (kazoo choirs for “You Are My Sunshine” or “Ode to Joy” at Rotary events) foster instant connection, joy, and a “feedback loop of the familiar” (15:30).
• Symbolic Gestures: Lincoln’s use of “Dixie” at Appomattox as a sign of respect and unity—using familiar music for healing and bringing people together (16:20).

Practical Invitations for Leaders

1. Start Meetings with Music or Mindfulness

Action: Use mindful music or guided exercises to set intention, reduce stress, and encourage focus.

• "Breathing with Bach" Exercise: Participants sway or gently conduct (with chopsticks) to live Bach music, building collective rhythm and harmony (18:00, 17:45).
  • “You are now with that chopstick, holding a baton... and together there is this groove... this peace that’s created in the room.” – Mort Sherman [18:32]
• Use Transitional Sounds: Simple audio cues (like chimes) help recenter and refocus participants after breaks (19:40).
  • “Even five seconds of bringing in music or sound in an intentional way... would refocus the discussion in such a beautiful way.” – Dave [20:30]
• Moment of Silence: After music or sound, value the pause for reflection and collective calm (21:45).

2. Create Team Playlists

Action: Invite team members to contribute to a shared playlist, honoring individual tastes and building group identity.

• Fostering Respect: Listening to and integrating diverse musical preferences demonstrates respect and strengthens bonds (24:20).
  • "Rather than saying, ‘Boy, have I got a great playlist for you,’... ask, what is important to you?” – Mort Sherman [24:48]
• Encourages Sharing & Storytelling: Use music to invite stories and deeper understanding among team members (26:36).
• Beyond the Familiar: Try genres outside personal comfort zones to grow collective perspective (25:00).

3. Use Music to Reinforce Messages or Themes

Action: Select music that aligns with desired group energy for specific occasions—motivation, focus, unwinding, celebration.

• Motivation & Purpose: Music can uplift or center the group in line with the leader’s message (28:40).
  • “What a great opportunity for leaders... to utilize a song or music or a playlist to set a tone for a conversation, a meeting, a change, and to just stop and think about that a bit.” – Dave [29:20]
• Rapid Emotional Connection: Recognizable melodies can instantly bond a group and reinforce shared values (“Amazing Grace” as historic through-line for American presidents) (30:40).
  • “There are probably 50 other songs I could start where it quickly resonated, connected, created the groove, which then builds a culture and an environment which connects us.” – Mort Sherman [31:34]

Personal Growth as Musical and Organizational Leaders

• Music and Identity Evolve: Playlists and tastes change throughout life stages—being open to new music and approaches is a lesson in adaptability and humility (32:40).
  • “That playlist and the music is not the music for life... through our lives. Music changes, our tastes change. Yet how it impacts us as people somehow resonates and continues like Amazing Grace as a thread throughout our lives.” – Mort Sherman [33:43]

Memorable Quotes

• On Resonant Leadership:
  “Great leaders resonate because they listen well. They know the questions to ask. ... If you don’t have that resonance... then you’re not going to succeed as a leader.” – Mort Sherman [03:50–05:43]

• On Music at Work:
  “If we just make it passive, like the elevator music, we’re not taking full advantage of what we know through our neuroscience, through our actual lived experiences of having music impact who we can be as people.” – Mort Sherman [08:55]

• On Community:
  “This idea of building, of networking, of music, of creating music intentionally to connect us as people is important.” – Mort Sherman [16:03]

• On Team Playlists:
  “There’s this feedback loop of the familiar when we create playlists... but how do you learn to respect others and through that, create a playlist which respects those around us?” – Mort Sherman [24:31]

• On Intentional Transitions:
  “Even five seconds of bringing in music or sound in an intentional way in order to center people would refocus the discussion in such a beautiful way... I’ve remembered that. And I thought, gosh, I should do more of that in my work.” – Dave [20:30]

Notable Moments with Timestamps

• [02:55] Resonance explained as emotional frequency in leadership.
• [08:34] Leaders giving agency to others in choosing music for gatherings.
• [10:30] Chef Jessica Mazzanotti’s “choreographed dance” kitchen example.
• [15:30] The “kazoo choir” team-building activity.
• [17:45] “Breathing with Bach” mindfulness exercise with a group.
• [19:40] Host reflects on the power of simple chimes for transitions.
• [24:48] Creating playlists as a sign of respect and community-building.
• [28:40] Using music to reinforce emotional messages and themes.
• [30:40] “Amazing Grace” as a historic tool for national unity and emotional resonance.
• [33:43] Sherman reflects on how music and identity evolve through generations.

Takeaways and Action Steps for Leaders

• Cultivate intentional musical moments—whether in meetings, celebrations, or transitions—to increase focus, harmony, and shared purpose.
• Empower others to co-create musical experiences, giving voice to diverse preferences and building collective ownership.
• Strategically use music to punctuate messages, reinforce values, manage team energy, and foster emotional memory.
• Recognize the evolving nature of musical taste and its parallel to organizational growth and adaptability.
• Embrace creativity and playfulness (even with kazoos!) to build joy and connection in formal and informal settings.

“If you don’t have that resonance, if you don’t listen, if you don’t feel, if you don’t understand those in your charge, then you’re not going to succeed as a leader.” – Mort Sherman [05:43]