Podcast Summary: Coaching for Leaders

Episode 748: What Really Matters for Team Success, with Colin Fisher

Host: Dave Stachowiak
Guest: Colin Fisher (Author, The Collective: Unlocking the Secret Power of Groups; Associate Professor, UCL School of Management)
Date: September 8, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode delves into the actual drivers of team effectiveness, challenging the common assumption that real-time coaching during team operations is the most crucial factor. Guest Colin Fisher unpacks why structural factors—the way a team is put together and launched—determine roughly 90% of a team’s success, and why leaders should shift their focus accordingly. The conversation draws on decades of research and Fisher’s new book to outline actionable strategies for leaders to greatly improve team outcomes.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Casino Analogy: Structure vs. Coaching

• Casino as Team Metaphor ([02:05])
  • Fisher shares a story about gambling with his father and compares team coaching to having a great poker strategy in a casino: even the best tactics can’t overcome a rigged system.
  • Quote: “If you're playing a rigged game, coming up with the best strategy isn't going to help you, because eventually the structure of that game is going to win.” — Colin Fisher ([03:21])

Structure vs. Coaching: Where the Real Impact Lies

• Distinction Explained ([04:50])

  • Structure: Composition, goals, tasks, and norms—these are like the rules and setup of the game.
  • Coaching: Efforts to influence moment-to-moment motivation or coordination.
  • Research overwhelmingly shows that structure trumps coaching every time.

• Quote: “Getting people to pay more attention to the structure of their group is really one of the important messages of the book.” — Colin Fisher ([07:05])

The 60-30-10 Rule

• Explained by Fisher ([10:23])

  • 60%: Team performance shaped before the team even starts together (planning, composition, clear goals, task assignment).
  • 30%: Determined at the launch meeting—where norms, buy-in, and early habits are set.
  • 10%: Real-time coaching, feedback, and corrections as the team works.

• Quote: “What happens in these early moments of a team is really, really sticky... Norms for how we communicate, who speaks most, who doesn’t speak at all...” — Colin Fisher ([11:21])

• Misallocation of Attention

  • Most leaders invert the rule, focusing 80-90% on real-time coaching and little on structure or launch. ([13:50])

Deep Dive into the 60%: Structural Building Blocks

1. Clear, Specific Goals ([15:15])

• The California Tomorrow Problem: Vague goals (“Let’s meet in California tomorrow”) make coordination impossible.
• Goals must be concrete and shared, and leaders should frequently remind the team of them.
• Quote: “Being a leader means being the repeater in chief.” — Colin Fisher relaying advice from a military leader ([16:55])

2. Well-Designed Tasks ([18:10])

• Tasks should be whole pieces of work, allowing teams to see their progress and their impact on the end result.
• Poorly designed tasks leave teams unmotivated and disconnected from the outcome.
• Quote: “Turning invisible tasks into visible tasks that the rest of the team can see is an important way... to tap into that 60%.” — Colin Fisher ([22:43])

3. Thoughtful Composition and Deep Diversity ([23:57])

• The aim is not just demographic diversity but functional, experiential, and cognitive differences.
• Teams are too often built on “who is available” or affinity, not on which expertise is needed.
• Quote: “Groups just work better when people have complementary knowledge and skills and that their perspectives can bring out something in the other that they didn’t know before.” — Colin Fisher ([25:08])

4. Purposeful Norms ([28:33])

• Norms may be invisible but powerfully dictate who participates, how decisions are made, and how feedback is handled.
• Leaders should work to explicitly define norms for communication, decision-making, and constructive dissent, especially during launch.

The Value of Intentional Launch ([31:07])

• Common Pitfalls in Launch Meetings

  • Leaders often assume everyone knows why they’re there and neglect explicit discussion of goals or norms.
  • Overlooking practical issues (like communication channels) can cause unnecessary friction.

• Practical Takeaways:

  • Always clarify why the team exists at launch—invite questions.
  • Discuss and agree on norms for communication, information storage, and decision processes.
  • Schedule a midpoint review: Research shows teams are uniquely open to adapting their processes halfway through a project.

• Quote: “At that first meeting, I want you to schedule a midpoint meeting... teams are kind of uniquely receptive to change at this halfway point.” — Colin Fisher ([33:36])

Memorable Moments & Quotes

• “Work on fixing structural problems before you focus on fixing process. Otherwise you’re just making the best of a rigged game.” — Dave Stachowiak ([09:50])

• “If you try and coach your way out of a poorly structured team, it’s just not going to have that much effect.” — Colin Fisher ([09:19])

• “If everybody already is really, really buddy, buddy... those are signs that you may not be challenging yourself as much as you can in the way you’re composing these teams.” — Colin Fisher ([27:54])

Important Timestamps

• 02:05 — Casino metaphor and core thesis about structure vs. coaching
• 04:50–07:41 — Explanation of structure and why it always beats process-focused coaching
• 10:23 — The 60-30-10 rule and its implications for leaders
• 15:15 — Importance of clear, specific goals for team coordination
• 18:10–23:57 — Task design and composition: building visible progress and functional diversity
• 28:33 — Norms: invisible but crucial
• 31:07–34:41 — Launch best practices, pitfalls, and “midpoint check-in” for team recalibration

Final Reflections

Dave and Colin highlight that none of these practices alone guarantee perfection, but integrating several—clear structure, well-designed launch, explicit purpose, and appropriate real-time coaching—yields major, research-backed improvements in team performance. The most effective leaders invest attention before a team starts working, not just once challenges arise.

Suggested Further Listening (from Dave)

• Episode 192: How to Create Team Guidelines (with Susan Gurke)
• Episode 496: How to Generate Quick Wins (with Andy Kaufman)
• Episode 657: How to Increase Team Performance Through Clarity (with David Burkus)

Conclusion

This episode was a deep, research-grounded dive into what really makes teams succeed—not just the visible coaching and intervention, but the less glamorous and often overlooked work of assembling teams well, launching with intention, and embedding clear norms and goals. As Colin Fisher repeatedly emphasizes, structure is the most powerful lever at a leader’s disposal.

For more resources and to access the full archive, visit coachingforleaders.com.