Podcast Summary: Coaching for Leaders, Episode 752

How to Start the Top Job, with Scott Keller

Air Date: October 6, 2025
Host: Dave Stachowiak
Guest: Scott Keller, Senior Partner at McKinsey, co-author of A CEO for All Seasons

Episode Overview

This episode digs deep into one of leadership’s most critical transitions: stepping into the top job (CEO, president, executive director, etc.). Dave Stachowiak is joined by Scott Keller, an expert on CEO excellence, to share research-backed insights and powerful lessons on how leaders can not only survive, but thrive, during their first months in the highest organizational seat. They explore the personal and institutional dimensions of this shift, highlight essential strategies, and offer memorable stories and practical tools for anyone preparing to lead at the very top.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The High Stakes of CEO Transitions

• Research findings: 1/3 to 1/2 of new CEOs are considered to be failing within 18 months. Over 90% wish they'd managed their transition differently. (01:56)
• Source of insights: Mix of extensive surveys, interviews with 83 of the top 200 CEOs from the past 15 years, and pattern recognition from years of consulting work. (02:24)
• Four “Seasons” of CEO Tenure:
  • Spring: Preparing for and stepping up to the new role
  • Summer: Starting strong in the job (focus of this episode)
  • Fall: Staying ahead, avoiding complacency
  • Winter: Transitioning out, shaping a lasting legacy (04:15)

2. The “Both/And” Challenge: Personal vs. Institutional Transition

• CEOs must experience profound personal growth and simultaneously leverage the “unfreezing moment” their arrival creates institutionally.
• Being new enables both adaptability and deep organizational renewal, but also exposes leaders to new realities, scrutiny, and isolation.
• Story: Etsy CEO experienced rampant rumors just by changing where his computer was positioned, highlighting the intense scrutiny CEOs face. (07:00)
• Quote: “That level of attention people pay to what you do... it is a spotlight that burns more brightly than one could ever imagine.” (Scott Keller, 07:30)

3. Reality Distortion & Internal vs. External Change

• William Bridges distinction: Change is external/event-driven, but “transition” is the internal psychological journey—often overlooked by new CEOs. (09:41)
• The role brings a “reality distortion field” where all feedback becomes amplified and distorted.
• Mindset matters: Shifting from “What legacy will I leave?” to “What purpose do I serve?” and from “How do I get buy-in for my vision?” to “How do we co-create our shared vision?” (10:18-12:45)

Four Essential Ingredients for a Strong Start

1. Don’t Make It About You

• Temptation for ego: The newness of the role and attention can fuel self-centeredness.
• Mindset shift: Place organizational needs above personal legacy and frame all questions through the lens of collective success.
• Quote: “As you take on the role, it's very important to not make it about you. Everything else... leads you towards it definitely becoming about you and feeding your ego.” (Scott Keller, 13:27)

2. Listen First, Then Act (The Listening Tour Strategy)

• Broad-based listening: Engage all stakeholders as soon as possible (employees, customers, regulators, community).
  • Marillyn Hewson (Lockheed Martin): “People are going to tell you things that three months later they won't tell you. So get in there early.” (15:56)
  • Brad Smith (Intuit): Ask, “What are the things that people aren’t telling me that they should?”
• Objective Fact Base: Strive for “one source of truth” to counteract bias and self-preservation in reporting.
• Power of first impressions: The “unfreezing” window for candor and insight slams shut quickly.
• Quote: “[When] you start out with a broad based listening tour... using those as part of your fact base to hold up the mirror on where are we as an organization and what can we aspire to?” (Scott Keller, 13:27-15:56)

3. Nail Your ‘Firsts’ with Candor & Preparation

• Radical transparency: Err toward complete candor—issues only get worse if left unaddressed.
  • Board meetings: Share both what’s going well and what worries you, including early “whispers” of problems. (23:34)
  • Say-Do Ratio: Build trust by delivering on what you promise across all stakeholders.
    • Quote: “With the street, it's all about the say-do ratio... the more you do that, the less people want to talk to you!” (23:34)
  • Stockdale Paradox: Always maintain hope while confronting brutal realities.
• Prepare intensely for moments of truth:
  • The primacy effect—first impressions as a CEO stick powerfully.
  • Quote: “For any of these moments of truth: prepare, prepare, prepare.” (Michael Fisher, Cincinnati Children’s Hospital, 26:56)
  • Example: Crafting a concise and evocative strategic vision (“flash fiction”), e.g., “We help athletes beat their competition” (Adidas); “Technology company that makes banking joyful” (DBS). (18:00)

4. Play Big Ball Not Small Ball: Prioritization & Time/Energy Discipline

• Focus on unique impact: Spend time only on issues that only the CEO can address or where your presence is amplified.
  • Sandy Cutler (Eaton): “Play big ball, not small ball. Spend time on the things that no one else can in ways that magnify your effectiveness without getting mired in things that don’t make a difference.” (29:33)
• Time blocking and boundaries: Color-coded calendars, hard limits on “external” time.
  • Brad Smith (Intuit): Capped external activities at 30% of his schedule—his assistant enforced it. (30:24)
  • Ajay Banga (Mastercard/World Bank): Shifted to more deliberate time management after nearly burning out. (30:24)
  • Doug Peterson (S&P): For every request, ask, “If this was tomorrow, would I regret having said yes?” Say no if you would. (33:00)
• Energy as well as time: Sequence demanding and energizing activities to avoid “energy troughs.” (33:00)

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On CEO scrutiny:
  “People are going to all find your jokes 10 times as funny and look at you that you're 10 times as tall.” (Scott Keller, 06:30)

• On the transition opportunity:
  “A CEO transition is one of those unfreezing events. Everyone is expecting change, and they're going to be disappointed if you don't make change.” (Scott Keller, 09:00)

• On the power of mindset:
  “An average CEO will say, ‘How will I get the organization on board with my vision?’ A great CEO… will think about, ‘How will I engage the organization in creating our shared vision?’” (Scott Keller, 12:18)

• On radical candor:
  “If there are problems, they only get bigger the longer you wait to surface them.” (Scott Keller, 23:18)

• On time management:
  “If this [asked-for meeting] was tomorrow, would I be regretting having said yes? If so, just say no now.” (Doug Peterson, S&P, 33:00)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:56 — Transition failure rates and regrets among new CEOs
• 04:15 — The “four seasons” framework for CEO roles
• 09:41 — Unfreezing organizations and Lewin’s model
• 10:18-12:45 — Subtle leadership mindset shifts
• 13:27-15:56 — Practical tactics: “Listen first, then act”
• 16:40 — Shortlist of bold moves; Satya Nadella at Microsoft
• 18:00 — Communicating strategy—“flash fiction” vision statements
• 23:34 — Radical candor and the say-do ratio
• 26:56 — The primacy effect and preparing for “moments of truth”
• 29:33 — Playing “big ball”; prioritization and boundaries
• 33:00 — Time and energy management strategies
• 34:45 — Scott Keller reflects on shifting his view of what makes a “great CEO”

Closing Reflections

• Scott Keller’s personal shift: The best CEOs blend risk-taking with both humility and humanity—departing from the “greed is good” era.

  • “What we found is that actually the CEOs who excel most… there’s an underlying humility and humanity to these CEOs.” (Scott Keller, 34:45)

• The practical, research-backed advice in this episode isn’t just for aspiring CEOs but offers vital lessons for leaders in any large transition or new top role.

For deeper application:

• Check out Scott Keller’s book, A CEO for All Seasons
• Listen to episodes 585 (“How Top Leaders Influence Great Teamwork”), 590 (“How to Genuinely Show Up for Others”), and 617 (“How to Start a Big Leadership Role”) for related discussions.

Quick Reference Summary of the Four Keys to a Great Start as CEO

1. Don’t Make It About You—Adopt a “we” vs. “I” orientation.
2. Listen First, Then Act—Use structured stakeholder listening to shape your early moves; seek objectivity.
3. Nail Your ‘Firsts’ with Candor—Be radically transparent, prepare intensely for all key first impressions, and maintain a consistent story across stakeholders.
4. Play Big Ball (Prioritize Ruthlessly)—Spend time only on what only the CEO can do, set boundaries, manage both time and energy.

Summary prepared for leaders seeking to make an exceptional transition into the top leadership role, capturing the direct insights, real examples, and memorable wisdom shared by Scott Keller and Dave Stachowiak in this essential Coaching for Leaders episode.