Coaching for Leaders, Episode 755: How to Lead a Meaningful Cultural Shift

Host: Dave Stachowiak
Guest: David Hutchens
Date: October 20, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Dr. Dave Stachowiak explores the vital role of storytelling in leading cultural shifts within organizations, joined by expert storyteller and author David Hutchens. Together, they discuss how organizations can intentionally use stories—both lived by leaders and discovered within teams—to forge shared meaning, support cultural transformation, and make change less disruptive and more meaningful. Real-life examples, practical strategies, and the nuances of crafting and surfacing impactful stories are explored, with references to Chewy, WD40, and more.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Challenge of Leading Cultural Change

Timestamps: [00:00–03:47]

• Dave opens with two contrasting stories from his own leadership experience, illustrating the difference between change communicated as logistics versus change communicated with meaning.
  • In one company, leadership announced a major change with great detail about logistics, but failed to articulate any sense of "why." This resulted in confusion and long-term disengagement.
    • "We knew logistically what had happened because it was super clear. But the why, the meaning behind it was entirely lost on us." – Dave ([05:11])
  • In contrast, another leader facing the difficult transition of replacing a beloved manager used a metaphorical story about unexpected travel to Stockholm instead of London, focusing on the emotions and journey. This fostered cohesion and smoother adaptation.
    • "All it was was a conversation about landing somewhere you didn't expect and what that experience might look like. ... We referred to Stockholm so many times in the year after that." – Dave ([08:28])

2. The Fractal Nature of Story and Culture

Timestamps: [09:23–11:34]

• David Hutchens highlights the "fractal" property of stories—the culture seen in one story is likely indicative of the broader organization.
  • "Identity is story. Culture is story. If we're doing identity work or culture work, we can't do that without telling stories. I actually think it's impossible." – David Hutchens ([11:34])
• Leaders' responses during change either reinforce or undermine cultural identity. Intentional storytelling is integral to shaping both.

3. Storytelling as the Fastest Route to Identity and Culture

Timestamps: [12:46–14:06]

• Leaders who are intentional about culture are necessarily intentional about story.
• The current environment, heavily influenced by change (AI, geopolitics, etc.), means leaders are increasingly seeking clarity on "who are we?" and "how do we want to show up?"

4. Case Study: Chewy’s Storytelling in Action

Timestamps: [14:10–20:03]

• David Hutchens shares a story circulated by Chewy:
  • After a customer lost two pets in quick succession, a Chewy service rep expressed empathy, facilitated a refund, and then sent flowers and a condolence note.
  • Chewy consciously elevates stories like these internally and externally to cement identity and culture.
    • "We don't feel like we're talking to customers. We're talking to pets' parents. We are part of their families." – Chewy VP, as quoted by David ([17:46])
• David reframes the cause-and-effect: Companies don’t tell stories because cool things happen; cool things happen because the right stories are told and repeated.
• Neuroscience: Stories activate the listener’s emotions, building "muscle memory" for behaviors exhibited in the stories.
  • "Organizational systems move in the direction of the stories that we continually place in front of them." – David Hutchens ([19:30])
• Tip: Leaders should tell stories that exemplify the behaviors they wish to see more of.

5. Two Essential Types of Organizational Stories: Embodied and Received

Timestamps: [20:03–31:27]

A. Embodied Stories

• Leaders must first "live" the story, demonstrating the desired cultural behavior.
  • Example: Gary Ridge, former CEO of WD40, publicly shared his 360-degree feedback—including criticism—to underline a culture of vulnerability and growth:
    • "If I expect you to grow, I have to be willing to grow as well." – Gary Ridge (as quoted by David, [22:08])
• Embodied stories need to be:
  • Surprising
  • Countercultural
  • Repeatable

B. Received Stories

• After leaders set an example, organizations must surface the stories that exist within the workforce.
• Standard "send us your story" campaigns are rarely effective; instead, facilitate story circles and prompts that invite emotional, specific sharing.
  • Effective prompt: "Tell me about a time when you were proud of how our values showed up in your work." ([30:27])
• These stories unearth the "real" culture and empower collective voice.

6. Crafting Prompts and Language to Elicit Better Stories

Timestamps: [29:05–31:27]

• David emphasizes the importance of using the right language, particularly including emotion words in prompts:
  • "By putting an emotion word in there, you get these more emotional, inspiring human stories." – David Hutchens ([30:53])

7. Scaling Story Work Across an Enterprise

Timestamps: [33:36–34:43]

• David reflects on shifting his work from small teams to entire organizations, emphasizing that systemic, human storytelling at scale can drive transformative culture change across thousands:
  • "What would happen if we invited this different kind of conversation with 5,000 people?... the opportunity for impact and for change is really tremendous." – David Hutchens ([34:22])

Memorable Quotes

• "Identity is story. Culture is story. ... You can't separate it." – David Hutchens ([11:34], [12:58])
• "Our brains were connecting as I was telling the story... At some level, stories act like simulations." – David Hutchens ([18:48])
• "The stories need to be surprising, they need to be countercultural, and then they need to be repeatable." – David Hutchens ([25:23])
• "If I expect you to grow, I have to be willing to grow as well." – Gary Ridge, as recalled by David Hutchens ([22:15])

Important Timestamps

• Contrast between logistical and meaning-driven change stories: [03:47–09:23]
• Culture as fractal and story-driven: [09:23–11:34]
• Chewy story and anticipatory principle: [14:13–20:03]
• Embodied stories – Leaders go first: [20:32–25:58]
• Received stories – Story circles, curating workforce stories: [26:09–29:05]
• Crafting emotional story prompts: [29:05–31:27]
• Scaling storytelling and culture work enterprise-wide: [33:36–34:43]

Tone and Takeaways

The conversation is warm, story-rich, and practical. Dave brings personal vulnerabilities and real experiences, while David offers expertise, concrete frameworks, and memorable organizational stories. The key message is that meaningful cultural shifts require leaders to intentionally live—and tell—stories with emotional resonance. Furthermore, organizations must actively elicit and celebrate the stories already present in their system. Both top-down and bottom-up storytelling are essential for lasting cultural change.

Action for Listeners:

• Identify the behaviors you want to see more of in your organization.
• Intentionally craft, embody, and repeatedly tell stories that illuminate those behaviors.
• Set up meaningful opportunities for everyone’s lived experiences to surface, particularly through emotionally framed story prompts.
• Recognize that cultural transformation is less about announcements and more about the stories people believe, retell, and make their own.

For more on this topic, see:

• Episode 488: "Leadership Means You Go First" (with Keith Ferrazzi)
• Episode 593: "How to Start Finding Useful Stories" (with David Hutchens)
• Episode 724: "How to Bring Out the Best in People" (with Donna Hicks)

Contact and resources:

• Learn more about David Hutchens and connect for organizational storytelling workshops via links in the episode notes or at coaching4leaders.com/partners.