Coaching for Leaders, Episode 760: The Kind of Curiosity Leaders Often Miss

Host: Dave Stachowiak
Guest: Shannon Minifie, CEO of Box of Crayons
Date: November 24, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Dave Stachowiak and Shannon Minifie explore a critical but often overlooked distinction in leadership: the difference between intellectual curiosity and relational curiosity. Drawing on new research conducted in partnership with the Harris Poll, Shannon delves into the challenges currently facing organizations—from fear and lack of trust to a dearth in relational skills—and demonstrates how developing relational curiosity can be a game-changer for leaders. The conversation both diagnoses the modern workplace's fractures and provides practical guidance for fostering trust, engagement, and better performance through curiosity-driven leadership.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The State of the Modern Workplace

• Research Motivation: Box of Crayons partnered with the Harris Poll to investigate if curiosity remains a vital skill for organizations amid economic and technological turbulence.

  • (02:36) “What prompted this partnership... We wanted to validate the distinction between two forms of curiosity... and to understand what role curiosity of either form could play.” —Shannon Minifie

• Workplace Challenges Identified:

  • Fear: 14.5% of the workweek is lost to fear of making mistakes—equivalent to 5–6 hours per person per week, thousands of hours and millions of dollars lost in large organizations.
    (05:26) "They feel frozen, they feel overwhelmed, unable to make decisions." —Shannon Minifie
  • Feedback Paradox: 80% of leaders say employees want more feedback, but many also say employees can't receive hard feedback.
    (07:06) “A strong majority... say employees are expressing a desire for more feedback... but people are unable to receive hard feedback.” —Dave Stachowiak

• Root Causes:

  • Lack of trust and relationship is identified as the main culprit behind fear and feedback difficulties.
    (09:26) “People are afraid giving that feedback will break the relationship. You know, the relationship can't withstand it.” —Shannon Minifie

• Leadership Skills Gap:

  • Despite abundant leadership content, there’s a growing gap in communication and leadership skills among younger employees.
    (10:43) "Investment in learning and access to information are going to be two different things." —Shannon Minifie

The Distinction: Intellectual vs. Relational Curiosity

• Intellectual Curiosity:

  • Motivation to acquire and accumulate knowledge; focused on satisfying one's own need to know. (14:05) “It's a motivation to acquire and accumulate knowledge... It really does bend back onto the curious person.” —Shannon Minifie

• Relational Curiosity:

  • Motivation to support and connect with others; focused on helping others discover and grow. (15:31) “Relational curiosity is motivated by a desire to support and connect with others... It’s not about satisfying my need to know something.” —Shannon Minifie

• Personal Reflection:

  • Shannon reflects on her own journey, coming from academia (primed for intellectual curiosity) and recognizing the need for relational curiosity as a leader. (16:11) “That default to being inquisitive, borderline interrogative, is still something that I would say is pretty hardwired in my being. But the motivations... and the impact... are different.” —Shannon Minifie

• Why It Matters for Leaders:
  (17:38) “Otherwise leaders are going to get crushed.” —Shannon Minifie
  Leaders must resist the instinct to always provide answers and instead create space for team members to think and contribute.

Relational Curiosity in Practice

• Beyond Just Asking Questions:

  • Not all questions qualify as curious, especially if used to confirm the leader's own assumptions. (18:35) “It’s very easy to end a conversation with a question that’s really just confirming what you know.” —Shannon Minifie
  • Questions should not steer or control; they should invite the other person’s thinking.

• Coach-like Curiosity:

  • “Slow down the rush to action and advice, and stay curious longer.”
    (19:40) Insert yourself less, prioritize others’ exploration.

Two Critical Scenarios (25:02)

• Scenario 1: Leader asks intellectual/clarifying questions to give better advice ("Do X"). Beneficial, but still focused on the leader’s understanding.

• Scenario 2: Leader stays in relational coaching mode, helping the other person reach their own solution—even if it matches the leader’s initial thought. The win is the team member’s ownership and empowerment: (26:33) “That person came, they got there themselves... Now your role is to help them get there rather than to tell them what to do. And that is so different and important.” —Shannon Minifie

• Managing the 'Advice Monster':
  (31:10) “We talk about being aware of and trying to tame your advice monster... Are you trying to control the situation and guide it in a certain direction?” —Shannon Minifie

Practical Tools and Language of Relational Curiosity

• Use of 'What' Over 'Why' Questions:
  (29:40) “What’s on your mind? What’s the real challenge here for you? What do you want?”
  Keep the asker out of it; avoid questions that place the other person on the defensive.

• Seven Essential Questions:
  (28:21) Core example questions include:

  • What’s on your mind?
  • What’s the real challenge here for you?
  • What do you want?

• Mindset Shift:
  (21:11) “A relationally curious leader understands their value is more than giving answers and advice... recognizes that the team has answers they don’t have.” —Shannon Minifie

• Ownership and Empowerment:
  (27:27) "Leaders are tired... It’s also a way of helping you to relieve yourself of that burden... You have to work harder at trying to stay curious in this really specific way and less hard at trying to come up with solutions for other people.” —Shannon Minifie

Memorable Quotes

• [02:36] Shannon Minifie: "We wanted to validate the distinction between two forms of curiosity... as well as their prevalence in the workplace, and to understand what role curiosity of either form could play in helping organizations overcome those challenges."
• [05:26] Shannon Minifie: "Fear was one of the key challenges that showed up... 14.5% of the work week... for an organization with a thousand people, six thousand wasted hours, and seven and a half million dollars annually."
• [09:26] Shannon Minifie: "Whenever there's a lack of positive feedback culture... points to a lack of relationship and trust in that team because people are afraid giving that feedback will break the relationship."
• [14:05] Shannon Minifie: "Intellectual curiosity... is really that it really does bend back onto the curious person."
• [15:31] Shannon Minifie: "Relational curiosity is about... helping something. It's motivated by a desire to support and connect with others."
• [17:38] Shannon Minifie: "Otherwise leaders are going to get crushed."
• [26:33] Shannon Minifie: "That person came, they got there themselves... that’s the win."
• [29:40] Dave Stachowiak: "I've been so grateful to learn... that invitation to substitute the word why with the word what."
• [31:10] Shannon Minifie: "We talk about being aware of and trying to tame your advice monster."
• [34:37] Shannon Minifie: "I'm trying to remain malleable about what the opportunities that the good opportunities are for generative AI in learning and development..."

Notable Moments & Timestamps

• [04:37] Workplace "fear" statistics and personal impact discussion
• [07:06] The paradox of seeking and resisting feedback, and its relational roots
• [12:45] Introduction of intellectual vs. relational curiosity distinction
• [18:35] The trap of believing asking any question equals being curious
• [26:25] Scenario illustration: intellectual vs. relational curiosity in decision-making
• [28:21] What relational curiosity sounds like in practice ("what" questions)
• [34:37] Shannon’s evolving thinking on the positive role of AI in learning and development

Additional Resources Mentioned

• Box of Crayons White Paper: “Navigating a Fractured Workplace: How Relational Curiosity Increases Engagement, Trust, and Productivity” (available at boxofcrayons.com)
• Monthly Learning Preview: Interactive previews on coaching and curiosity for L&D and HR professionals ([details in episode notes])

Recommended Episodes:

• [237] These Coaching Questions Get Results (with Michael Bungay Stanier)
• [458] The Way to Be More Coach-Like (with Michael Bungay Stanier)
• [454] How to Ask Better Questions (with David Marquet)

Actionable Takeaways for Listeners

• Recognize and develop relational curiosity—not just asking questions, but doing so to support others’ thinking.
• Shift from being a constant advice provider to a facilitator of team insights and empowerment.
• Use “what” instead of “why” to encourage open, non-defensive exploration.
• Pay attention to the intent behind your questions; avoid leading or controlling the conversation.
• Understand that fostering relational curiosity builds trust, engagement, and productivity, while also relieving leadership burden and supporting team growth.

Closing Thought

"You have to work harder at trying to stay curious in this really specific way and less hard at trying to come up with solutions for other people."
—Shannon Minifie (27:27)

For the full research, more tools, and to try the learning preview, visit boxofcrayons.com.

Next episode: How to innovate better through disruption, with Steve Blank.