A (3:32)

And I was thinking about what you said, and that happens to me all the time, too. I'll go back and listen to a conversation I recorded sometimes three or four years ago, and I'll hear something I never heard the first time or my context has changed and the thing that wasn't meant for me to hear didn't care about three or four years ago. All of a sudden I listened to it again. I'm like, oh, that's the message I needed today. You said something else that I think was really key there, though, is that you were hitting. You were hitting a big change. And one of the things I appreciate today that I don't think I appreciated early on when we started the academy and even people finding the podcast for the first time is often, it is an inflection point, like something has happened, taking a new role, a team, in your case, your team expanded substantially, someone getting feedback, and it's an inflection point where you need to elevate in some way. And that's what ultimately got you applying to the Academy. And when you applied, what did you want to get out of this?

B (4:33)

So. So when I heard you promoting and someone who just actually, I think they were an alumni or alumni of the academy, and you interviewed, like, same thing that we're doing now. It really, it's like a call for me. It's like, this is. This is my moment. This is the answer I'm looking for. I need to apply now. I think I need to. And believe it or not, they've like, last, like the last day for the application for the Academy. I talked to my boss. I'm like, I need this. If you could help me get approved for this, because that will have to go through exceptional approval of some sort because of my organization's limit. Anyway, I did that and I said, I need this because I need structure. And I was reading through the academy, everything that you talk about there and how you structured and what we could get out of the academy, like, every word. Like, you know, if you're looking at something and something's just, like, highlighted, just like in my imagination, but it's really, like, every word that you said, like, I would invite anyone who might be interested to get and apply for the academy to really read through that webpage, because it helped me a lot. So, like, everything you said about strengths over weaknesses, consistency over intensity, community over solitudes, like, all of those, I really believe in those. And how you said, there will be a structure on how we do things. And it's not like you even said something there. Like, I know you finished, like, you have a PhD degree, but you said, I want a space for people to actually. You don't have to go there or be like, masters or doctorate, but there's a space you could learn. And it's like real time problem solving. So that really got me because I think I said I need a group of people who could hear me and hopefully understand where I'm coming from and my current issues. You know, my. The challenges I'm going through at my workplace. So that really, basically, they like everything on the academy web page, I'm like, yes, yes, check, check.

A (6:53)

Okay.

B (6:54)

I need all of those. I need this to elevate, you know, leadership at key inflection points, which I was. I still am, but.

A (7:02)

Yeah, yeah, me too, me too. And I think about. You were saying there, too, of the. A lot of us have had really good education and training, as you and I both have. Right. And that's one of the reasons that I. I downplay a bit curriculum in our academy. And I lean much more heavily into structure and behavior change in community. Because a lot of us are. We read books, we listen to podcasts. Like, we've had good education. Like, we've gotten a lot of the theoretical kinds of things. Even if we don't have them down, we've at least been exposed to them. It's the behavior change that's the hard part, right? Like, okay, I sort of know what I need to do, but, like, all right, now how do I actually start to do it? And that's where the structure matters. And that's what you leaned in on, too, when you decided to do this. What did you decide to. When we got into the focus areas. And by the way, we usually select three focus areas. And by select, I mean we all work together to figure out, like, what should those three be for each person? What did you decide to zero in on that was important to take action on yes.

B (8:08)

So for the, as you've said, we have those three, like our 60 day commitment. But if I could highlight maybe one of them that I've decided to take on was the narrative strategies. Because as artists team was just like formed and I want to be able to tell a story of our team's value and that align with organizational priorities. So I've zeroed in on like that's one of my three 60 day commitment that I took on. And I would say, speaking of structure, there's five steps, I believe for our 60 day commitment.

A (8:47)

Right.

B (8:48)

And then it was very helpful for me. There was the step four and step five because this is something that I don't think I normally do being a leader. Like, okay, when I see this, I know I'm on track. I'm like, oh yes. And from a narrative strategist, what I put on my that I know that I'm on track is that leadership begins using my team's metrics or success stories as practices. And I started the academy, I know we have wrapped it up in May, but we started in October. And so I've been working on this too. So even if it's a 60 day, I continue to do it. I'm just so grateful because I could tell you, Dave, that recent there are a lot of things that our senior vice president have given us like a responsibility or a role which attests to that. They see our team's value.

A (9:48)

Cool.

B (9:48)

And the things that he has given our team the space and the opportunities to tell, like storytelling for data, for web, for example, including search or SEO, those things. It means that there's confidence and there is visibility too on how our team work and the value that we bring. So that the step four, but the step five is like, I'm getting consistent, fast feedback by. So that was also I'm like, okay. I told myself every two weeks I'll talk to a leader or ask a stakeholder. Is there anything that we're working on that you want to know more about? Which I have injected that in my one on ones with my leaders. So I've asked those questions and so I know what maybe they're focused on or maybe they have a question in their head that our team hasn't answered or worked on. So that's really something that those two, the step four and five is something that's not commonly done, I would say if you take on an action. So just really helpful. I still continue to do this though, even if we're done with our cohort.

A (11:03)

Yeah. Which is the goal. Right? It's sustainability on all these things. And I. I'd love to pull the thread on two things you said, because I think they're so key. One of them is the daily action is really small. And it's sort of funny at the beginning, like, when we do start talking about this is almost everyone will come to the conversation as you experience, like, with these big things, like, okay, I'm going to spend a couple hours doing this. And I'm usually the one that's like, no, don't try to do all that once a day, five minutes. Yours was just starting off with like, once a day, recording a team achievement or a metric, something in one sentence and just get it down. And it's sort of like, you think about it like, that is just so tiny. It seems silly. It just seems like, how could that possibly make a difference? But you said it earlier in this conversation. It's consistency over intensity. We're trying to, like, start a behavior that you can keep consistent. And by keeping it consistent, you really change the narrative over time, which you did. And it's so cool that you did that.

B (11:59)

I know. Even if it didn't, you know, even if didn't happen within the 60 day, because some things really take time and you really have to work on it. So. And that's why I love how the statement of step five says, like, I'm getting consistent, fast feedback by. So it's like the keywords, is there consistency? And yeah, I'm really grateful for the structure that I learned from the Academy because it has become a way of my work life, even in my personal life, like, if I commit to something, I should have this framework because that, that I know that I'm on track or maybe off track.

A (12:39)

So which is one of the other things I was going to pull the thread on is I don't know if you're on the right track, because oftentimes when we get into conversations, or at least when I get into conversations with leaders about things like, hey, how do I raise awareness of what my team's doing? Or how do I build my team's brand inside the organization? And we start talking about, all right, what are we going to do? And how do we measure that? The first response everyone has, like, well, that's not something I can measure. It's not like a number I can put on a spreadsheet, which is true. And yet I think really differently about that. I think, oh, we totally can measure that. And the way we do that in the academy is anytime we're trying to do something new. We document up front. How do I know when I'm on the right track? And everyone writes out three or four things like, if I'm on the right track, these are the things I'm likely to see. These are the kinds of comments I'm going to get from my peers. This is the kind of things stakeholders are going to see. This is the kind of thing I'm going to hear people saying in meetings. If this is happening and whether it happens or not, it's helpful because if we see those things happening, it's super great. Like, you get, you build your confidence, like, oh, Matt, this is great. I'm going to keep going. And when we don't see some of those things happening, it just means, hey, we, we don't have the right tactic yet. We don't have the right action. And that is then feedback that almost always gets us to the direction that makes sense as far as the tactics, behaviors. And either way, that feedback gets us all moving, which is so key for this.

B (14:07)

True, so true. Yep. Feedback. And also how to feed like pivot from your original plan. And it's good data all the time. Whether it's working or not. It's data for you and it's an information that, you know, it's up to you, how you process it. Do you want to move forward? Do you want to step back a bit? Or maybe you need support also, because not everything you could actually handle by yourself and you need a community or support or even like your own mentor within the organization to.

A (14:40)

So, yeah, I remember you telling me before that accountability was a big part of this of. Because there's such a structure of like we're all doing this together and we're checking in with each other and we're talking between sessions with our partners. That, that, yeah, it makes it a lot more likely that we're going to move forward on something.

B (14:58)

Exactly. And that you know that because with that, with your framework where we have touch points in between our sessions, so we get to speak to our accountability team partners and we get to talk about where we are and actually just even have a good chat about whatever it is that we're going through, not even just in the work, even in. Because work, personal life, you're all experiencing, you're all one, you're just one person experiencing that. So it's really such a gift to have a cohort and then have accountability partners. Because then if you have accountability partners, you need to really show up versus, like, if it's Just me. I'll just. Maybe we can move it next week or we can move it maybe next month. You just keep moving it until like you haven't done it at all.

A (15:50)

Yeah, I've been there.

B (15:51)

Yeah, me too. So I need this.

A (15:56)

Yeah, yeah. Structure and. But the more I do this, the more years I've been involved with this, the more I realize. I mean, I think especially now in the AI age, like the power of community, human connection, peers working together to sort support each other on something is more important now than it probably ever has been. So I'm so glad you. You've done that and really just leaned into that so intentionally. And as you have, you know, I asked people what they changed their minds on through this process, going through the academy. What did you change your mind on?

B (16:28)

So before I answer that question, I want to share that. One of the gifts from the academy for me was taking the Clifton strengths test. Oh yeah, that is our strength finder. From there, Dave I learned so about myself. Maybe like in my head I know I'm this person. In my head I know this is my strength. But seeing it based on the test results, one of the things there that was very insightful and helpful even in my wellness was the blind spot. Like you have strengths. Yes. But it could also be a weakness if. If you have a blind spot and you're not looking after yourself too. Right. So one of my actually strengths is developer learner responsibility. 1. So I said 3 anyway, developer learner responsibility. And I learned because I'll be vulnerable. I experienced burnout towards the end of last year and I learned and I was reading through my test result from the cliftonstrength finder that one of my blind spots was really not taking care of my energy. So I realized. So I changed my mind on. Is that being a leader, it doesn't mean that you need to be there all the time and be available for the people that you lead or support. So I then learned that yes, that was my blind spot. And I've learned from that time that true presence isn't just about being there all the time. It's really about being there at the right time with the right energy. So I did learn how to protect my energy, set boundaries, even like, because that will help myself as well. And I scheduled difficult conversations. I know, like I said, I check my day when I could have that difficult conversation and not follow it with another difficult conversation because sometimes you just keep going. So leadership can be like a servant leader. Some people have that mentality too. Like if you're a leader, you're a servant leader. But also being an effective leader means protecting your energy and that helps you to be more present. So that's what I changed my mind on.

A (18:46)

I'm so glad and thank you so much for the privilege to support you. And also thank you so much Mel for taking the time to share your story with us. I really appreciate it.

B (18:56)

So happy to be here. It's a privilege and honor.

A (18:58)

Dave A lot of times when we think about accountability, we think about it in a negative context only, as in having to hold someone accountable for something they haven't done but should have. That is for sure one aspect of accountability in leadership. But as we've learned from past guest Jonathan Raymond over the years, accountability is also a very positive thing. Accountability to ourselves and accountability to each other to do what we said we would do. As you heard Mel say, we do this in two big ways in the Academy. First is to decide in advance how we know if we're on the right track with the work we're doing. But the other piece of accountability is working with partners. We don't do anything in isolation in the Academy. Everything we do is either with our cohort of six to seven leaders and me working together, or in one on one support from our partners who are peer leaders. If that kind of accountability would help you right now, our Academy opens for applications the very first week of September. To find out more, visit coaching4leaders.com academy if you get there before we open applications, you will see a place to request an early invitation. If you do that, we'll make sure you're one of the first to know when we do open applications. And if you're listening to this a bit later, you'll see a link to apply on that page. Both will be at the exact same place. Coachingforleaders.com academy if you're at an inflection point right now, I hope you'll consider elevating your leadership with our support. Thanks for listening in with Mel and I today and I'll be back on Monday with our next regular episode.